Update 44 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
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Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21
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JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭LightMaster7 wrote: »So is this a big FU to redguard sorcerers? So now your saying any class that doesn't have a magic bonus has no business being a magic user or sorcerer class?
I thought the race change was supposed to bring about more diversity in choices for a race? But your saying completely the opposite.
And *** NO, I aint going to change my race just to fit your mold. I'd rather quit this game.
Actually Redguards can totally do magicka sorc with these changes, they would be better for pvp however and you wouldn't have to spec a single point into anything stamina related as its all built into the class. great dark deal users as well = no sustain building needed.
A redguard mag sorc would get 8% cost reduction for force pulse, healing ward, mutagen, clench, blockade, and likely destro and resto ults. With 2k stam and 380 stam regen with adrenline rush, you may not need any stam sustain sets and instead focus on max mag and spell damage. Could be interesting to see2 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think ZoS should do everyone a favor and increase the values of all races. The amount of ressources we get from these new passives is such a massive nerf for each race really. Why can't we raise all by 1000 ? Or at least 500 to make it look less pathetic than 1000 or 2000 x ressource.Edited by Dracane on January 17, 2019 5:51PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What is the point in these changes. These are nerfs across the board on every style of game play. This is a back door nerf.
None of these changes create an enviorment where any race can do any role or class.
This is ludacris. You just destroyed most builds in the game only so you can give the illusion you did something to add to the game.
Ridiculous.
Well can not agree with you.
New changes bring more diversity and are excellent way to move forward but requires some fine tuning!1 -
Vaerth✭✭✭✭ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Greetings! Today, the combat team will be showing an early glimpse of the racial changes for Update 21 (coming to PTS next week). We’ll discuss the reasoning behind why we targeted racial passives, our goals with the rework, and how some of the goals were met. As always, we’ll be closely monitoring this thread, and are very excited to hear your feedback on the matter! Note that we'll be posting this on the German and French forums as well in the next day or two.The Problem Space
Below are the higher level reasons on why we decided to move toward reworking many of the racial changes for U21, and explanations of them to help understand their impact.- Right now there are a lack of effective options in picking your race/class combination.
- This is mainly due to the fact that many of the racial bonuses are percent increases of stats, rather than flat ones. This means races that provided a bonus to a stat that you didn’t focus into gave very little tangible impact.
- Many racial bonuses do not have universal applicability.
- Many bonuses provided from races had narrow application or requirements, such as specific damage types or proc conditions. For example, Orc’s have a damage bonus that only applied to melee attacks, instead of all physical attacks.
- Not every race provides a completely unique gameplay element.
- Some races currently provide smaller unique bonuses such as immunity to specific status effects, or sneaking; but not every race has something of this manner. On top of this, some of the larger, more defining passives were not comparable in terms of impact. For instance, compare the Argonian Resourceful passive to Imperial’s Red Diamond.
- Some races provided far more mathematical combat power than others.
- The delta between some races is noticeably high, leaving some races feeling left behind while others feel too good to pass up from a combat perspective.
To summarize, we decided to focus more on racial balance this update because racial choice was one of the larger outliers to our core mantra of the game - freedom. We wanted to expand the horizon for choice and present players with a self-reflecting question of “What is my playstyle or ideal build?”, providing options to help reach that individual answer. Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.Goals & Process- Allow more effective options when picking a race for each role in tanking, healing, or damage dealing.
- This goal was one of our largest targets for this pass, since many playstyles had only one option for what was viable. This was done by converting percent bonuses into flat ones so they provide similar bonuses to all playstyles. Please note that these flat values will now scale with other % modifiers, so there will be less of a delta between builds. We also expanded many of the interactions and proc conditions for the passives, so more builds could engage with them and allow for improved diversity.
- Equalize the overall power that each race provides by using our set bonus efficiency system, which compares the total amount of power that a bonus provides under equal terms.
- When we’re balancing numerical bonuses, this is our general procedure with the values you see. The system works by looking at the total power a bonus provides and comparing it to a bonus from a 2-4 item set. For example, if we have 2000 Stamina, we would compare that to a 2 piece value of Stamina, which is 1096. The final result would be 2000/1096 = 1.82 set bonus efficiency. We did this for each bonus a race provides so they would all be roughly equal in the power they provide.
- We decided to find a healthy standard for total racial power provided and used that budget (roughly 6.5 set bonuses) for the power that each passive would grant. We used the previous version of Redguard and Altmer as our target goal. Note that some of our hybrid races will be a slightly higher value, since their power is divided. Most of the races received buffs to reach this figure.
- Retain and enhance the unique feeling and gameplay patterns that each race allows.
- Every race will now have a different way to engage with the game. This is either a new small but unique bonus, or an improvement to their core passive. Note that the smaller bonuses are not meant to work with every build, since these are meant to be more for flavor.
- Improve the sense of progression that the racial passives provide when leveling up.
- We want each race to have a similar rate of gaining power as you level up, and as such, we’ve restructured the unlock order of some passives. Less powerful passives will unlock first, while the larger more defining ones will unlock at later levels. Note that we’ll be refunding all of your racial skill points if you’ve already unlocked these passives. You will not need to unlock them again on characters you’ve already obtained them on.
- Achieve the above goals while still obeying our rich and structured lore and storytelling.
- This was one of our more challenging but exciting tasks, as it gave us additional opportunities to work with other teams. We delved deep into our rich and established lore to make bonuses that highlight racial differences. This means that we didn’t outright balance each race to be equal in every avenue of the game, as there’s a story to be told with how the races engage with the world around them. Nords are well known for being hardier races who can take a hit, while High Elves are better at wielding magical spells. If we were to balance them to be equal in both, we’d lose the unique identities of these races.
Specific Changes
The developer statements below are presented to give insight into our thought processes when deciding how to represent Tamriel’s races in ESO. Actual denizens of Tamriel, if we could talk to them, might debate about these characterizations. The first portion of each passive is how it works in its current state, while the latter are the upcoming changes (if there are any).
High Elf- Increases Experience gain in Destruction Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Generic Experience gain → No changes
- Spellcharge: 9% Magicka Recovery → Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
- Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
- Elemental Talent: 4% Fire/Shock/Ice damage → Increases your Spell Damage by 258.
High Elf culture is heavily ingrained with the belief of destiny and birthright, so we wanted a passive that highlighted their ability to harness their innate powers, or class. Granting them a unique resource when accessing a class ability really gets that feeling off and makes it much more engaging than the previous flat recovery bonus.
On top of that, High Elves are well known for being powerful spell casters, and we wanted to make this race feel more powerful when they were charging up a powerful ability.
Argonian- Increases experience gain in Resto Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 50% Swimming Speed → No changes
- Resourceful: Gain 3% Max Magicka and restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion → Increases your Max Magicka by 1000. Restore 3600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.
- Argonian Resistance: 9% Max Health and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
- Quick to Mend: 5% Healing Done and Received → Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done by 4%.
Argonians by nature are resilient creatures, adapting to their surroundings and accumulating themselves to the environment. Their ability to shrug off potent diseases makes them harder to take down, and their connection with the Hist empowers their will for life. Their bonus to Healing Done makes them gifted at healing themselves or their allies, while their resource return after drinking a potion helps them stay in the fight. Regardless of their role, their ability to recuperate and get back into the fray is something to respect.
Previously Argonians offered far too many stats and they were mathematically twice as good as some races. This retracted from the unique feeling we wanted each race to have, since their bonuses were all over the place. Now they should have more of some stats that make them stand out a bit more, while they’ll have less in other areas that weren’t in line with that vision.
Wood Elf- Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
- Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
- Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
- Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
- A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.
The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.
Breton- Increases Experience gain in Light Armor Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Alliance Point gain → No changes
- Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
- Spell Resistance: 3960 Spell Resistance → Gain 2310 Spell Resistance and 100 Magicka Recovery.
- Magicka Mastery: 3% Magicka Cost Reduction → Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%.
The Breton race is a proud one, and well attuned to the natures of magic. Their natural hardiness paired with arcane ability allow them to shrug off powerful spells and retaliate in quick succession with their own. This is shown in their bonuses to their Magicka pool, as well as their high resistance to spell attacks. Bretons should be feared for their ability to constantly weave spells with little delay.
Dark Elf- Increases Experience gain in Dual Wield Skill Line by 15%, reduces damage taken from Lava by 50% → No changes
- Dynamic: 6% Max Stamina and Magicka → Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250.
- Resist Flame: 3% Max Magicka and 2079 Flame Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 600 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect.
- Destructive Ancestry: 7% Flame damage and 2% Frost/Shock Damage → Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258.
Dark Elves are a sophisticated race that can thrive in the harshest conditions. Intelligent and quick, they are well versed in blade or magic, giving them a keen advantage in juggling between the two. By giving them a balanced bonus of Weapon and Spell Damage, as well as Magicka and Stamina, their natural cunning and versatility will be demonstrated as they can fulfil any role.
Imperial- Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → No changes
- Tough: 12% Max Health → Increases your Max Health by 2000.
- Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
- Red Diamond: 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.
Stout and hardy by nature, the Imperial race is one of order in battle and culture. They stand strong and unified, regardless of what hardships face them. This is highlighted with their powerful bonuses to constitution, and ability to push back when under pressure.
Khajiit- Increases Experience gain in Medium Armor Skill Line by 15%, 5% bonus change to successfully pickpocket → No changes
- Nimble: 20% Health Recovery and 10% Stamina Recovery → Robustness: Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 75.
- Stealthy: Reduce detection radius by 3m and Increase damage from Stealth by 10% → Lunar Blessings: Increases your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 750.
- Carnage: Increase Weapon Critical Chance by 8% → Feline Ambush: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.
The Khajiiti race is one of intrigue and versatility, with a natural ability to adapt to any walk of life. Under the guidance of the moons they can fulfil any role, with a well-rounded bonus to all resources. We also wanted to better demonstrate their keenness for subterfuge and trickery, so they now have more access to critical strike chance and sneaking potential, regardless of what proficiency they build into.
Nord- Increases Experience gain in Two Handed Skill Line by 15%, 15 extra minutes on drink buffs → No changes
- Stalwart: 6% Max Stamina and 20% Health Recovery → Increases your Max Stamina by 1500. When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
- Resist Frost: 9% Max Health and 2079 Cold Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Cold Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Chilled status effect.
- Rugged: 6% damage reduction → Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by 3960.
The hardy Nords reigning from Skyrim are well accustom to the hardships of life. With a bonus to constitution and their ability to shrug off the bitter cold, they can soak up immense amounts of damage. Their ability to snap back from punishment is highlighted with their new Ultimate gain passive. We changed their flat damage reduction to Resistances, so it better scaled with all playstyles, and allowed for different build paths than it did before.
Orc- Increases Experience gain in Heavy Armor Skill Line by 15%, extra 10% Inspiration gain → No changes
- Brawny: 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500.
- Unflinching: Healing Received by 5% and 20% Health Recovery → Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 380 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
- Swift Warrior: 4% Melee attack, 12% Sprint cost reduction and 10% Sprint Speed → Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.
The Orc race is one of honor and code. Well known for their aggressive combat style, we wanted to showcase this by helping them keep up the fight with their new recovery when utilizing any weapon. Their previous bonus to Melee Damage was too niche, and we wanted Orcs to feel powerful with less restrictions. Since we’re giving them more damage and aggression, we also wanted to dial back on some of their defensive power.
Redguard- Increases One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, 15 extra minutes on food buffs → No changes
- Exhilaration: 9% Stamina Recovery → Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Weapon abilities by 8%.
- Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
- Adrenaline Rush: When you deal damage with a melee attack you restore 792 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. → When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 950 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.
Fierce and resilient, the Redguard race are well respected for their physical combat prowess. We wanted to emphasize their cultural background of being well versed in the ways of combat by granting them a cost reduction bonus for weapon abilities, while pulling back from some of their passive recovery. Instead we’ve moved it more into their offensive staying power with Adrenaline Rush to highlight their natural advantage to attrition.
As a closing note, we want to reiterate that all players will have a refund of all of their character’s racial passives if they’ve spent any, so remember to reallocate any points into these on your characters once the changes go live. We'll also be granting one free race change, per account.
YES! I can use any race i like and be a Dunmer without feeling like I am playing wrong not using Magcika builds!
Many will complain I am sure, but I for one and very pleased that race can be more choice than requirements for all classes to enjoy.Pact Bloodwraith0 - Right now there are a lack of effective options in picking your race/class combination.
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xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Trancestor wrote: »Please make it something like this and you won't trigger anyone with yet again more nerfs and force people to buy tokens:
Argonian
Resourceful: Gain 3% Max Magicka and restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion → Increases your Max Magicka and Stamina by 500. Restore 3600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.
Argonian Resistance: 9% Max Health and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1500 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
Quick to Mend: 5% Healing Done and Received → Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done and Recieved by 4%.
This would have been fair.
An expected nerf to resourceful without an across the board nerf to every passive and a little bit of love given for stamina.
-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
DKMaestro✭✭✭Wish people would eat more cheese with all their whine!
Some min/max'ers are maybe upset, but there are literally millions of other players that will adapt just fine.
And if you are one of the ones that want to close their guild and move to another game, go do it. We don't care - why advertise that?
You will not be missed and there are plenty of people who will gladly play this game.
People need to be less married to this game and their character and try and enjoy the game a bit more. I have played since the beginning, and I will continue to do so.
Old man playing. Have a life, a job and only one character, which is grumpy (all the time)0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No you are wrong on a 40k hp tank 9% extra health is 3600 hp so we will take a nerf zos need to stop screwing us over with their pathetic needs obvious not even Gillam the trampy rogue sell out even plays the game anymore
That is totally false and just proves you know very little about math calculation of these stats.
On my 38520 HP argonian tank, 9% is 2595
WHAT? 9% of 38520 is 3,466.
If you are looking at the change "in game" and not in calculation there are some things that will not add in to the health boost the % gives you.
But in the end, the flat resource of 1K will be much less for an argonian tank than the 9%.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
@n0tthesunso let me get this straight:
in the year of expansions based in the khajiiti homelands....you nerf khajiit..? they are complete trash. they already lagged behind, now they are just unusable.
my main toon cries today.
@n0tthesun they literally got only buffs.
seriously? no. stam recovery went from 10% to 75. this hurts my build.
i don't need increases to max mag or mag recovery, as i'm not--and i don't think anyone else is--running a khajiit as a mag toon. this isn't a buff, it's useless.
in comparison to a race like redguard that gets 2000 max stam increase, khajiit only gets 750 max stam increase. that is incomparable. additionally, redguard gets 950 stam recovery when dealing damaage. that's simply better than khajiit. the race becomes useless when stacked against the other options.
Well you were saying khajits lagg behind so I assume you were talking in pve and on higher level. So I assume your build is proper meta build not some regen stacking build (in that case you are lagging behind for your own reasons). At most in pve on meta build you will find 962 base recovery from dubious, stormfist and the universal one. 10% of that is 96. At minimum in pve when fully buffed you find yourself having 60% recovery boost, but usually it goes to 80%. 75 recovery boosted by 60 - 80% is 120 - 135.
135 > 96
You are correct 750 stam is incomparable to 2000 stam. But 8% crit + 750 stam (and 750 health) is far better than 2000 stam. Also before this patch you had no 750 stam (or health) so 750 > 0 is another buff.
Also redguard doesn get 950 stam recovery, they get 950 stam every 5s. That is far different but yeah, they get more sustain. They always had more sustain and they still have more sustain. Your argument was khajiit was nerfed, when they were buffed more than even redgurds were.Edited by SodanTok on January 17, 2019 6:00PM4 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I posted this in the other thread, but chances are it'll be ignored.
This has got to be the worst ever racial revamp I've seen in a popular mmorpg. If you make such big changes then you as a dev need to compensate players for it. Giving us 1 racial change per account is a straight up slap on the face. Everyone knows you just want people to buy tokens for some broken *** that you should have fixed ages ago, not 5 years in. You're basically punishing users that have more than 1 character per account, so in other words the more active/'contributing to popularity of this game' user-base gets boned because you want the £££. This is a really *** move if it goes through like this.
Even a game like WoW, which is notorious for monetizing everything doesn't pull this kind of bs. When they make large changes that will affect the basic functioning of classes they provide a free redo per character.
Not worst but best changes so far0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So Bretons are basically better magic users than High Elves... right lol
It’s a no from me these changes are absolutely awful.
Another question, high elf’s 10% max mag becomes 2000 magicka but wood elf’s 6% max Stam becomes 2000 Stam.
So by that logic wood elves are that great stamina wise that it’s comparable to how great high elves are magicka wise?
Ridiculous, the changes are bad and once again demonstrating that you’re all very bored at the office and come up with stupid crap. Maybe go part time because instead of sitting around and nerfing the whole game, just do something else productive with your time
L2P Breton are not better than Altmers, they just got better in sustain but altmers are true DPS king.
Bosmer lost stealth damage buff which is enough to justify max stamina buff!0 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let me give you a statement on why I see these changes as an overall improvement. First, let me clear a few things up that people do not seem to understand when they look at these changes:
1. Flat stats are a buff, NOT a nerf. These get amplified by all % buffs you have and will translate to at least the same stat density as before, in many instances even more. In no CP content and instances where you have warhorn available, this is a significant buff especially.
2. On magicka races, sure you can say that altmer is the best race when it comes to the pure dps output while neglecting any sustain component. However, that's neglecting additional factors that come in. Khajiit has spell crit, magicka recovery that effectively translates into roughly the same sustain that altmer gets, they have max magicka AND 8% spell critical, which will benefit more from additional critical damage you have in group content and will be especially effective on templars and nightblades. Factoring in sustain, bretons are incredibly strong in that regard, so much so that they are a valid choice for any class that struggles with sustain and also allows using BLUE food in most instances, plus giving resistance and a flat recovery that always ticks. Also people seem to neglect the additional health that khajiit gets, which is very valuable in many instances. Dunmer is the most versatile race now since it can do both specs and also gets health. If you wanted to min/max 100% dunmer is not the ideal choice for dps (again neglecting the aspects from above), but the difference is ~1k magicka and 60-70 magicka per second. The altmer sustain component also only functions when you actually cast a class ability, whereas breton and khajiit have a passive that always ticks.
3. Stamina races are very very close to each other, especially in actual fights. People seem to think redguard is still the ultimate best, but this is not the case. Bosmer, orc, khajiit, dunmer are all viable. Redguard requires you to deal DIRECT damage now to benefit from the adrenaline rush, which is a significant reduction in effectiveness from what we had before, since it will not proc on DoT-abilities. The weapon cost reduction also requires you to cast abilities to be effective. Bosmer is 100% on par with redguard sustainwise. 258 recovery that ticks all the time is a lot and will net you a higher gain than the passives redguards have in many instances in PvE and PvE. Orc has higher damage compared to these two, but a bit less sustain. Khajiit is still a very viable choice and the sustain is basically unchanged from what they had before. I'm not 100% satisifed on the imperial side because they don't really have anything that benefits their role as a DD in pve, but for tanking they definetely became better.
In order to prove some of this, i made an excel sheet where i implemented these into a standard build for stamina and magicka DDs in PvE. Magicka build was (as far as i remember) Zaan, Siroria and Sorrow/Spell Strategist, while the stamina version uses Relequen+Advancing Yokeda+Velidreth.
Formula is the same as above.
Here's the comparison of effective spell power and weapon power:
Here, altmer comes out as the clear winner, and for stamina, dunmer puts out the highest damage. This does not yet factor in sustain components. In order to do so, I introduced a ranking system that basically just ranks races based on damage and sustain with equal weights. The weights can ofc be adjusted, so if sustain is more important to you, the ranks will change accordingly.
With equal weights, altmer still comes out on top, but not by much. Shifting the weights towards sustain more and more makes breton the best choice.
Shifting the weights to 30% sustain and 70% damage yields the following:
And the other way around:
It all depends on what you need, and the gaps are not as cear and big as many make them seem.
Damn why is Nord the worst rank all around? The only one worse than Nord is just not playing and have no class.2 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No you are wrong on a 40k hp tank 9% extra health is 3600 hp so we will take a nerf zos need to stop screwing us over with their pathetic needs obvious not even Gillam the trampy rogue sell out even plays the game anymore
That is totally false and just proves you know very little about math calculation of these stats.
On my 38520 HP argonian tank, 9% is 2595
WHAT? 9% of 38520 is 3,466.
If you are looking at the change "in game" and not in calculation there are some things that will not add in to the health boost the % gives you.
But in the end, the flat resource of 1K will be much less for an argonian tank than the 9%.
MATH 9% of 38520 is 3466 but in ESO the 9% IS NOT BUFFING YOUR TOTAL STATS. It is buffing just your base stats. 38520 health is what my tank sees on the sheet. In reality that is 28534 base health from where the 9% comes.
But yes, with this change my argonian (which is incredibly OP race in current version) loses 1k health in very deserving nerf.Edited by SodanTok on January 17, 2019 6:06PM3 -
IveFunny thing? ZoS decides to go full lore with the race changes in the same patch they deliver necromancer...
Inconsistency at its best.I suggest you add a Name + Race Change token instead of a Race Change. Some characters are bound to their name. For example, I have a Magicka DPS Sorcerer that is a High Elf named Mithrandir. This won't make any sense to roll a Breton, as it won't fit the name and I really don't want to spend money to change the name too.
Why? Because Mithrandir means The Gray Wanderer in Elvish. Derivative of the elvish words "mith" meaning grey and "randir" meaning pilgrim or wanderer.
This is a name made up by the elves as an endearment to the wizard Gandalf from Lord of the rings. This name won't really work for a class that's not an Elf. Also, race changing enables the ability to change the gender and in case the player doesn't like how a race looks like, it will be stuck with a name of the opposing gender.
__________________________________
Regarding the bonuses: I am happy with how the game changes. It doesn't affect how I see things, only make what I already like better. You only need one character for each role.
- Stamina DPS: Red Guard Nightblade (Vampire)
- Magicka DPS: High Elf Sorcerer (Vampire)
- Healing: Breton Templar (Vampire)
- Tanking: Imperial Dragonknight (Vampire)
Buffs: High Elf, Breton, Imperial, Red Guard
Neither: Argonian, Khajiit, Nord
Nerfs: Wood Elf, Dark Elf, Orc
Explain how wood elves are nerfed.0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
Bretons also get 100 mag regen too and have resists
They can be better choice as healer but no way for a dpsEdited by Lord_Eomer on January 17, 2019 6:07PM0 -
lihentian✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Wood Elf- Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
- Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
- Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
- Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
- A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.
The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.
wood elf look terribly useless...
Y’ffre’s Endurance- this is a nerf... imo 21% is much more then 258.. at least on my build..
lets us see this build, please.
2385 stamina recovery. with 21% from current passive.
so base stamina recovery
2385/1.21=1971
with the new update
1971+258 = 2229
difference is
2385-2229=156
stamina recovery loss:156
please correct me if am wrong
p.s. if you need help building stamina recovery. then maybe you should review your equipment. i know not everyone build for sustain, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.
You are wrong. 21% is additive. So put together 514 (base) with whatever your gear of food is giving you and make 21% out of that, I bet it will be around 200 stamina regen.
Now put the new 258 and increase it by all the % you get from passives and CP and I bet it will be over 400
You just got buffed hard and went here to say you got nerfed.
And thats the case with half this thread.
ok champion point Mooncalf under the lover give 15% stamina recovery for 100 point.
if 258 > 21%
assume 258 = 21%
then 15% = 258/0.21*0.15=184
are you telling me that 100 point in Mooncalf grant less then 184 stamina recovery?
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Mooncalf
Mooncalf? There is 28% from 7 medium armor, there is like 12% on warden, 25% on nightblade, 20% on stamsorc. There is 10% on vampire. There is 20% on potions. 15% on mooncalf as you said. Let me make it more clear.
I dont know your build and how much you were buffed in that picture. But the only way mooncalf gives you 184 stamina recovery is if you are running 1226 base regen. That means somewhere on your gear, mundus and food you have total of 712 regen. 21% of that situation would be the 258 regen. Now you get 258 regen to the base. So your base regen will be 1484 and mooncalf will be giving you 222.
race: wood elf
level cp850+
class nightblade
drink: Dubious Camoran Throne
equipment set:
Night Mother's Embrace(armor set)
Blessing of the Potentates(jewelry set)
Stormfist(monster set)
my stamina recovery is 2300, i got 15% from night blade passive, 21% from wood elf, 28% from medium armor. 10% from Mooncalf(i did not spend 100 point here). i use Dubious Camoran Throne, which give 319 flat stamina recover. and my bosmer is a WW.
2300 /(1+0.21+0.28+0.15+0.1) = 1360
amount of stamina recovery i got from old 21% passive
1360*0.21=285
amount of stamina recover i will be getting.
258
amount of stamina recovery loss
285-258=27
not a huge loss, but still a nerf for me. yes?
p.s. just saying, if i really want.. i could get more.. like mundus stone..etc the higher you have the more you will loseEdited by lihentian on January 17, 2019 6:13PM0 -
Vigawatt✭✭✭So sad to read about Dunmer changes. I've been reading through this thread looking for positives, but it's not there. I have only 1 character, Dunmer pet sorc. Changing stat increases to flat instead of percentages, and the magicka reduction from Dunmer changes, hits me twice. I love the Dunmer culture, so I'm not going to race change, but it just means I can never aspire to be a good player.
I can accept from a lore perspective that Dunmer are versatile, as they can be warriors in House Redoran or mages in House Telvanni, but neither of those houses are hybrids! Dunmer specialize. From what I'm reading it seems Altmer is the only choice for MagDPS now, which sounds like the opposite of the race/class diversity ZOS was shooting for.
I just hope this all comes out in the PTS so they can respect House Telvanni again before the changes go out.2 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Magicka Mastery: 3% Magicka Cost Reduction → Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%.
The semantics in this one sentence is concerning. Cost reduction vs cost of our abilities could have different meanings.
It is a huge buff is it is truly 7% magicka cost reduction.
Not huge buff its 4% increase only and comparing other race not significant and trade-off between damage and sustain.
Seems like L2P issue.0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »Argonians and Nords now sit at the bottom of the DPS barrel with these changes, and I'm not sure I like that.
The thing is that while these changes are "mathematically" balanced, in reality, the different roles they affect are already imbalanced in terms of how racial passives interact with them. The key here is what I like to call the "effective ceiling".
PvE DPS is the de-facto metric in determining which racial passives are better, simply because their effectiveness is so easily measured and have an obvious determinable ceiling; tanking, healing, and PvP don't really have that ceiling, as in most of the difference in performance in those roles at the highest level still lie in player skill. Case in point, Woeler, by all means a brilliant tank, runs a Khajiiti for his taunting needs, but you don't see many, if at all, people running non-BiS races for damage-dealing in the end-game; people are even taking into account the damage difference between Altmer and Dunmer and about how "huge" that is.
While I'm fine with the nerfs made in terms of Argonian effectiveness in tanking, healing, and sustain, I still find their lack of damage-dealing passives to be really unappealing, which sucks because I love Argonians. Nords, not so much, so I don't really care for them, but I still have to make a point for giving them some of that DPS buff because I'd like to be fair to all the races.
Fact of the matter is that right now, Dunmer (considered BiS for magicka atm) magsorcs are dealing 6% more damage than the worst race for it, without accounting for Engulfing Flames. This is the number that causes raiders to frown upon people not using the "absolute BiS" races, and I have personally encountered many instances of this "segregation" in my >2 years of raiding end-game, despite a good track record as an end-game dps.
(I've tested it on Murkmire PTS a couple of weeks ago with Dunmer, Argonian, and Khajiiti, all with the exact same non-pet Magsorc build and exact same rotations, self-buffed and taking multiple 3mil parses with each toon, truncating the extremes and calculating the averages.)
I'm going to assume that stamina numbers are similar between Redguards and Bretons; I haven't tested it though, but I plan on doing it sometime during this week. However, the sustain buff to Redguards is entirely unnecessary; they already have the best stamina DPS sustain among all the races, with Adrenaline Rush almost exactly equivalent to chugging a crafted stamina potion on cooldown; buffing it to direct damage sources rather than just melee, buffing those numbers, and giving them weapon ability cost reduction is really overkill.
While I am glad to see that Khajiiti are receiving a buff to their spell crit that brings them up from bottom of the barrel for magicka DPS to somewhere among the top, and am also glad to see that Dunmer magicka damage is being nerfed while their stamina damage is being buffed, I would still like to see something damage-related for Argonians that wouldn't affect their tanking/healing/PvP ability.
These are my proposed changes to the racial passives right now:
High Elf
Elemental Talent: Increases Spell Damage by 258 129.Altmer are a bit too powerful, what with their Magicka sustain and raw Magicka damage.
Argonian
Resourceful: Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1000. Restore 3600 2400 Health, and 3600 Magicka and Stamina when you drink a potion.
Quick to Mend: Increases healing done by 4%, and increases Weapon and Spell damage by 129 for 5 seconds upon receiving any healing.I'm actually trying not to be biased here and buff them too hard, but I really do love Argonians. Also, I believe these will level the playing field a little in terms of raw damage, while being faithful to the lore of Argonians being resilient lovable hunks without affecting their nerfed utility.
Breton
Magicka Mastery: Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 8% 5%.Breton sustain is unmatched, but I would like it dialed down a little. Still best, just not by that much.
Dark Elf
Dynamic: Increases your Max Stamina by 1250 750 and Max Magicka by 1250 1500.They're elves. I believe that their magic damage was nerfed a tad too much.
Khajiit
Robustness: Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 75 150.
Feline Ambush: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8% 5%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.8% in Weapon Crit was actually already pretty OP, and that along with their new Lunar Blessings passive would put them at a bit too much damage. Same for Spell Crit. This tones that down a bit while also giving them better sustain.
Nord
Stalwart: Increases your Max Stamina by 1500 2000. When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.This should put them on the same level as Imperials and Redguards in terms of damage; perhaps a tiny bit more from their ultimate gen, but they won't have the sustain for it.
Orc
Unflinching: Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 380 250 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.Honestly, I don't know about Orcs right now; I think they're going to be really good at damage but since I'm going to propose nerfs to Redguard sustain I think something similar should happen here. For now, take this with a few more grains of salt than my other proposed changes.
Redguard
Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Weapon abilities by 8% 5%.
Adrenaline Rush: When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 950 600 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.Just trying to get them more on par with Bosmer; right now they're just ballin OP, and these proposed changes would still keep them at the top for stamina sustain.
These are just off the top of my head; numbers can be tweaked, but my goal for these proposals is to balance out dps between races while maintaining their differing utility.
Now, I'm not saying that these are perfect; the update still hasn't even dropped on the PTS, so I have no idea of knowing whether these flat resource increases apply before or after the % buffs from other passives such as Inner Light or Undaunted Mettle. I am looking to spend much of my time testing on the PTS, and get as much data as possible both before and after the changes. In the end, I am hoping for better work done on the racial passives.
Useless suggested changes, you simply want many of races to be unplayable.1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Wood Elf- Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
- Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
- Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
- Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
- A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.
The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.
wood elf look terribly useless...
Y’ffre’s Endurance- this is a nerf... imo 21% is much more then 258.. at least on my build..
lets us see this build, please.
2385 stamina recovery. with 21% from current passive.
so base stamina recovery
2385/1.21=1971
with the new update
1971+258 = 2229
difference is
2385-2229=156
stamina recovery loss:156
please correct me if am wrong
p.s. if you need help building stamina recovery. then maybe you should review your equipment. i know not everyone build for sustain, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.
You are wrong. 21% is additive. So put together 514 (base) with whatever your gear of food is giving you and make 21% out of that, I bet it will be around 200 stamina regen.
Now put the new 258 and increase it by all the % you get from passives and CP and I bet it will be over 400
You just got buffed hard and went here to say you got nerfed. And thats the case with half this thread.
ok champion point Mooncalf under the lover give 15% stamina recovery for 100 point.
if 258 > 21%
assume 258 = 21%
then 15% = 258/0.21*0.15=184
are you telling me that 100 point in Mooncalf grant less then 184 stamina recovery?
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Mooncalf
Mooncalf? There is 28% from 7 medium armor, there is like 12% on warden, 25% on nightblade, 20% on stamsorc. There is 10% on vampire. There is 20% on potions. 15% on mooncalf as you said. Let me make it more clear.
I dont know your build and how much you were buffed in that picture. But the only way mooncalf gives you 184 stamina recovery is if you are running 1226 base regen. That means somewhere on your gear, mundus and food you have total of 712 regen. 21% of that situation would be the 258 regen. Now you get 258 regen to the base. So your base regen will be 1484 and mooncalf will be giving you 222.
race: wood elf
level cp850+
class nightblade
drink: Dubious Camoran Throne
equipment set:
Night Mother's Embrace(armor set)
Blessing of the Potentates(jewelry set)
Stormfist(monster set)
my stamina recovery is 2300, i got 15% from night blade passive, 21% from wood elf, 28% from medium armor. 10% from Mooncalf(i did not spend 100 point here). i use Dubious Camoran Throne, which give 319 flat stamina recover. and my bosmer is a WW.
2300 /(1+0.21+0.28+0.15+0.1) = 1360
amount of stamina recovery i got from old 21% passive
1360*0.21=285
amount of stamina recover i will be getting.
258
amount of stamina recovery loss
285-258=27
not a huge loss, but still a nerf for me. yes?
Nope. Because the % will affect the new 258 So you will get 258*(1+0.21+0.28+0.15+0.1) => 448.
448-285=163.
Congrats. You just got yourself 163 more stam regen with next update.5 -
Barezz✭✭The Bosmer stealth changes seem fairly useless for a PvE player, and don't sound that useful for a PvP player either. I cannot think of any use for Stealth detection, but 10% damage increase from stealth meant that I usually open an attack from stealth. The Stealth detection decrease also helped for thieving or assassination missions.
What is the rational for the change to Stealth Detection, and in what ways will it actually be useful?4 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No you are wrong on a 40k hp tank 9% extra health is 3600 hp so we will take a nerf zos need to stop screwing us over with their pathetic needs obvious not even Gillam the trampy rogue sell out even plays the game anymore
That is totally false and just proves you know very little about math calculation of these stats.
On my 38520 HP argonian tank, 9% is 2595
WHAT? 9% of 38520 is 3,466.
If you are looking at the change "in game" and not in calculation there are some things that will not add in to the health boost the % gives you.
But in the end, the flat resource of 1K will be much less for an argonian tank than the 9%.
MATH 9% of 38520 is 3466 but in ESO the 9% IS NOT BUFFING YOUR TOTAL STATS. It is buffing just your base stats. 38520 health is what my tank sees on the sheet. In reality that is 28534 base health from where the 9% comes.
But yes, with this change my argonian (which is incredibly OP race in current version) loses 1k health in very deserving nerf.
So you are pointing out exactly what I stated with my second sentence? Congrats.
And in the end, I ended up being correct with the "But yes".
You replied to someone with a one sentence response stating a % value of a number that was not accurate. I explained the actual details. Thanks for agreeing.
edit: also, how was 9% OP? compared to the other two go-to races for tanking it was equal to what Imperials got and less than what Nords got before. So no, it was pretty much right inline. And "deserved" is VERY arguable. The only thing that should have been nerfed was the potion passive IMO, though if all races are getting across the board changes to resource values, then great, it's fair. But it wasn't deserved vs. other races bonuses before and only becomes fair b/c they are all being effected.Edited by xaraan on January 17, 2019 6:23PM-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
lihentian✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Wood Elf
- Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
- Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
- Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
- Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
- A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.
The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.
wood elf look terribly useless...
Y’ffre’s Endurance- this is a nerf... imo 21% is much more then 258.. at least on my build..
lets us see this build, please.
2385 stamina recovery. with 21% from current passive.
so base stamina recovery
2385/1.21=1971
with the new update
1971+258 = 2229
difference is
2385-2229=156
stamina recovery loss:156
please correct me if am wrong
p.s. if you need help building stamina recovery. then maybe you should review your equipment. i know not everyone build for sustain, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.
You are wrong. 21% is additive. So put together 514 (base) with whatever your gear of food is giving you and make 21% out of that, I bet it will be around 200 stamina regen.
Now put the new 258 and increase it by all the % you get from passives and CP and I bet it will be over 400
You just got buffed hard and went here to say you got nerfed. And thats the case with half this thread.
ok champion point Mooncalf under the lover give 15% stamina recovery for 100 point.
if 258 > 21%
assume 258 = 21%
then 15% = 258/0.21*0.15=184
are you telling me that 100 point in Mooncalf grant less then 184 stamina recovery?
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Mooncalf
Mooncalf? There is 28% from 7 medium armor, there is like 12% on warden, 25% on nightblade, 20% on stamsorc. There is 10% on vampire. There is 20% on potions. 15% on mooncalf as you said. Let me make it more clear.
I dont know your build and how much you were buffed in that picture. But the only way mooncalf gives you 184 stamina recovery is if you are running 1226 base regen. That means somewhere on your gear, mundus and food you have total of 712 regen. 21% of that situation would be the 258 regen. Now you get 258 regen to the base. So your base regen will be 1484 and mooncalf will be giving you 222.
race: wood elf
level cp850+
class nightblade
drink: Dubious Camoran Throne
equipment set:
Night Mother's Embrace(armor set)
Blessing of the Potentates(jewelry set)
Stormfist(monster set)
my stamina recovery is 2300, i got 15% from night blade passive, 21% from wood elf, 28% from medium armor. 10% from Mooncalf(i did not spend 100 point here). i use Dubious Camoran Throne, which give 319 flat stamina recover. and my bosmer is a WW.
2300 /(1+0.21+0.28+0.15+0.1) = 1360
amount of stamina recovery i got from old 21% passive
1360*0.21=285
amount of stamina recover i will be getting.
258
amount of stamina recovery loss
285-258=27
not a huge loss, but still a nerf for me. yes?
Nope. Because the % will affect the new 258 So you will get 258*(1+0.21+0.28+0.15+0.1) => 448.
448-285=163.
Congrats. You just got yourself 163 more stam regen with next update.
ah... lol never thought of that.. hmm i guess thats something. still it really hurt to lose that stealth range... might have to change my bosmer into a cat.
btw. i won't be getting that 21% with the new update. so 258*(1+0.28+0.15+0.1) =394. ill be getting 109 more.Edited by lihentian on January 17, 2019 6:20PM1 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »Argonians and Nords now sit at the bottom of the DPS barrel with these changes, and I'm not sure I like that.
The thing is that while these changes are "mathematically" balanced, in reality, the different roles they affect are already imbalanced in terms of how racial passives interact with them. The key here is what I like to call the "effective ceiling".
PvE DPS is the de-facto metric in determining which racial passives are better, simply because their effectiveness is so easily measured and have an obvious determinable ceiling; tanking, healing, and PvP don't really have that ceiling, as in most of the difference in performance in those roles at the highest level still lie in player skill. Case in point, Woeler, by all means a brilliant tank, runs a Khajiiti for his taunting needs, but you don't see many, if at all, people running non-BiS races for damage-dealing in the end-game; people are even taking into account the damage difference between Altmer and Dunmer and about how "huge" that is.
While I'm fine with the nerfs made in terms of Argonian effectiveness in tanking, healing, and sustain, I still find their lack of damage-dealing passives to be really unappealing, which sucks because I love Argonians. Nords, not so much, so I don't really care for them, but I still have to make a point for giving them some of that DPS buff because I'd like to be fair to all the races.
Fact of the matter is that right now, Dunmer (considered BiS for magicka atm) magsorcs are dealing 6% more damage than the worst race for it, without accounting for Engulfing Flames. This is the number that causes raiders to frown upon people not using the "absolute BiS" races, and I have personally encountered many instances of this "segregation" in my >2 years of raiding end-game, despite a good track record as an end-game dps.
(I've tested it on Murkmire PTS a couple of weeks ago with Dunmer, Argonian, and Khajiiti, all with the exact same non-pet Magsorc build and exact same rotations, self-buffed and taking multiple 3mil parses with each toon, truncating the extremes and calculating the averages.)
I'm going to assume that stamina numbers are similar between Redguards and Bretons; I haven't tested it though, but I plan on doing it sometime during this week. However, the sustain buff to Redguards is entirely unnecessary; they already have the best stamina DPS sustain among all the races, with Adrenaline Rush almost exactly equivalent to chugging a crafted stamina potion on cooldown; buffing it to direct damage sources rather than just melee, buffing those numbers, and giving them weapon ability cost reduction is really overkill.
While I am glad to see that Khajiiti are receiving a buff to their spell crit that brings them up from bottom of the barrel for magicka DPS to somewhere among the top, and am also glad to see that Dunmer magicka damage is being nerfed while their stamina damage is being buffed, I would still like to see something damage-related for Argonians that wouldn't affect their tanking/healing/PvP ability.
These are my proposed changes to the racial passives right now:
High Elf
Elemental Talent: Increases Spell Damage by 258 129.Altmer are a bit too powerful, what with their Magicka sustain and raw Magicka damage.
Argonian
Resourceful: Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1000. Restore 3600 2400 Health, and 3600 Magicka and Stamina when you drink a potion.
Quick to Mend: Increases healing done by 4%, and increases Weapon and Spell damage by 129 for 5 seconds upon receiving any healing.I'm actually trying not to be biased here and buff them too hard, but I really do love Argonians. Also, I believe these will level the playing field a little in terms of raw damage, while being faithful to the lore of Argonians being resilient lovable hunks without affecting their nerfed utility.
Breton
Magicka Mastery: Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 8% 5%.Breton sustain is unmatched, but I would like it dialed down a little. Still best, just not by that much.
Dark Elf
Dynamic: Increases your Max Stamina by 1250 750 and Max Magicka by 1250 1500.They're elves. I believe that their magic damage was nerfed a tad too much.
Khajiit
Robustness: Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 75 150.
Feline Ambush: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8% 5%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.8% in Weapon Crit was actually already pretty OP, and that along with their new Lunar Blessings passive would put them at a bit too much damage. Same for Spell Crit. This tones that down a bit while also giving them better sustain.
Nord
Stalwart: Increases your Max Stamina by 1500 2000. When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.This should put them on the same level as Imperials and Redguards in terms of damage; perhaps a tiny bit more from their ultimate gen, but they won't have the sustain for it.
Orc
Unflinching: Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 380 250 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.Honestly, I don't know about Orcs right now; I think they're going to be really good at damage but since I'm going to propose nerfs to Redguard sustain I think something similar should happen here. For now, take this with a few more grains of salt than my other proposed changes.
Redguard
Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Weapon abilities by 8% 5%.
Adrenaline Rush: When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 950 600 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.Just trying to get them more on par with Bosmer; right now they're just ballin OP, and these proposed changes would still keep them at the top for stamina sustain.
These are just off the top of my head; numbers can be tweaked, but my goal for these proposals is to balance out dps between races while maintaining their differing utility.
Now, I'm not saying that these are perfect; the update still hasn't even dropped on the PTS, so I have no idea of knowing whether these flat resource increases apply before or after the % buffs from other passives such as Inner Light or Undaunted Mettle. I am looking to spend much of my time testing on the PTS, and get as much data as possible both before and after the changes. In the end, I am hoping for better work done on the racial passives.
Useless suggested changes, you simply want many of races to be unplayable.Khajiit
Carnage: Increase Weapon Critical Chance by 8% → Feline Ambush: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.
Too much
Lol what is too much? You want simply khajit to be playable as stam? Its one of best change so far.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What about this for dunmer:
- 2000 magicka
- 1250 stamina
- 1250 health
- 258 spell/weapon damage
Basically, they trade 192 magicka recovery for 1250 health. But otherwise they can hit the same DPS numbers as Altmer. Get rid of the damage reduction passives.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 17, 2019 6:18PM1 -
elven.were_wolf✭✭✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »elven.were_wolf wrote: »The only thing I didn’t like was that khajiit got a higher reduced stealth detection radius of 5m while wood elves just get 3m. That makes anyone wanting to play with the justice system in the game HAS to choose khajiit. So now my wood elf thief is at a big disadvantage in the justice system. As Khajiit get a higher pickpocket chance bonus AND increased detection reduction radius. That’s my only dislike of these changes
Actually, no. What wood elves get is a 3m bonus to SEEING things that are hidden. They get not the slightest bonus to actually hiding themselves. Read the developer comments, it makes it clear that it is about detecting potential threats. The name is a give-away, too. But you are correct, Khajiit is the only race now for stealth, only it is actually much worse than you thought.
Enjoy your day.
Thanks for pointing that out!
Wow, that makes my bosmer even MORE useless as a theif. Bosmer should be good theives in the lore too. They totally destroyed that
Achievement hunter and secret admirer of Naryu Virian.1 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Is there any way that making the free token "race change" rather than "name and race change" costs money to ZoS? It seems to me that it just annoys customers by making them feel deprived and less attached to their characters, without actually motivating them to spend more crowns.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No you are wrong on a 40k hp tank 9% extra health is 3600 hp so we will take a nerf zos need to stop screwing us over with their pathetic needs obvious not even Gillam the trampy rogue sell out even plays the game anymore
That is totally false and just proves you know very little about math calculation of these stats.
On my 38520 HP argonian tank, 9% is 2595
WHAT? 9% of 38520 is 3,466.
If you are looking at the change "in game" and not in calculation there are some things that will not add in to the health boost the % gives you.
But in the end, the flat resource of 1K will be much less for an argonian tank than the 9%.
MATH 9% of 38520 is 3466 but in ESO the 9% IS NOT BUFFING YOUR TOTAL STATS. It is buffing just your base stats. 38520 health is what my tank sees on the sheet. In reality that is 28534 base health from where the 9% comes.
But yes, with this change my argonian (which is incredibly OP race in current version) loses 1k health in very deserving nerf.
So you are pointing out exactly what I stated with my second sentence? Congrats.
And in the end, I ended up being correct with the "But yes".
You replied to someone with a one sentence response stating a % value of a number that was not accurate. I explained the actual details. Thanks for agreeing.
Seems so
I never said 9% of 38k is that much, I merely said that on 38k 9% passive is that much. Your response seemed to argue with that point, but anyway. You are indeed correct 1 -
megasurge93✭✭✭"Argonians by nature are resilient creatures, adapting to their surroundings and accumulating themselves to the environment. "
I think you might perhaps mean to state 'acclimating' instead of 'accumulating' in this sentence?
"Illusion is the first of all pleasures." ~Oscar Wilde0
