Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

foossile

Tell me if I'm wrong but after the update, except healer, what an argonian can do ?

Mirage131

@ZOS_Gilliam how is it justified to give a single race change token?? I have paid for all 15 character slots. I have paid to change most of their races as I have changed them. Now I have to pay to change them again because you guys decided to change things that didn't need changed?

Watchdog

As an overland, delve and normal dungeon PvE only player I am quite unhappy about the negative changes to Bosmer.

You see, that stealth detection passive is absolutely useless to me. To add insult to injury, the loss of the stealth bonus hurts badly.

I am quite unhappy about the changes to my Bosmer character.

satanio

foossile-forum wrote: »

Tell me if I'm wrong but after the update, except healer, what an argonian can do ?

Tank and PvP? They're just slightly worse.

DeathStalker

@ZOS_Gilliam Are these changes final or will you consider making adjustments? Will you be willing to make adjustments now based on our feedback or will you wait until you receive feedback on PTS?

The_Yellow_King

Savos_Saren wrote: »

For those complaining about Dunmer:

Valkyn, Pelinal's Aptitude, Innate Axiom on you mDK.

I'll be testing this next week.

What would you run? Dw and destro or bow and destro? Are you talking pve or pvp?

In which case a 2h and destro or 2h and resto could be interesting. My dunmer is a magblade so I'm not sure if it will be any good

CleymenZero

Burtan wrote: »

Feels like a mistake giving dark elf the best dmg output in game for both stam and mag.

Best damage output? I see a khajit actually being better at both now.

I see it as the Dunmers will be the new wood elves of magicka builds.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

lihentian wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

• Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
• Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
• Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
  • A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.

Developer Comment

The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.

wood elf look terribly useless...



Y’ffre’s Endurance- this is a nerf... imo 21% is much more then 258.. at least on my build..

lets us see this build, please.

Galarthor

Derra wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

@Tasear Bretons are way ahead of Altmers in terms of sustain with these changes!

Really?

Yes by far.

Ofc it depends on how many spells you cast and how expensive they are at base - but the 7% cost reduction passive is worth between 350 and 450 mag recovery in stat sheet.
The 100 base regen breton gets will be almost enough to put breton on the same sustain as altmer with their passive.

@Derra how did you get those numbers? Just curious b/c I ran my calculations with an assumed average cost (pre-cost reduction) of 3000 per second. Just curious ^^

On my sorc my average base cost across all my abilities is somewhere at 3500 magica. For masterreach builds it´s more like 3800 base cost.
So i calculate from that base and then go to like ~50 to 55 skills/s for permanent casting.

Ofc this gets altered by class you play and which abilities you use how frequently - a lower base cost class like NB or warden won´t benefit as much.
Templar massively depends on which skills they use.
Same goes for DK - pve rotation is cheap comparatively - support skills are expensive.

But if you start at a higher base magicka cost per second than me, how do you end up at lower magicka regeneration-equivalents than I do? (total of 450 to 550 VS. 625). With higher base cost you should arrive at a value greater than mine

I am also not sure what ~50 to 55 skills per second for permanent casting is supposed to me.

I am just want to make sure I got the right picture so I can make the right race choice.

Kidgangster101

Welp I have a orc tank and DPS and I'm not a fan of these changes at all. I don't like the mix of stats we get back around 300 is meaningless number in terms of health and stamina. It should be one base stat tbh so that way we notice it. That is why redguard is always great stam with adrenaline rush and that got buffed lol. So order should recover 600ish stam or health per hit not a mix of both the return is too small.

spartaxoxo

Blairy087 wrote: »

While these all seem rather nice.. what about the 12k crowns i spent on race changes 2 weeks ago? I now have tospend another 12k on race changes. 1 race change token is a kick in the teeth really. I dont mind th e changes everything looks alot more balanced. I just wasted all those crowns and now I have to buy more what i dont like 😑😑

They said this was coming for weeks now. It's your own fault for making a large purchase without doing any research or keeping up with the latest news.

gepe87

Bosmer can be very interesting in PvP with other classes besides sNB. Bow passive + bosmer speed passive on a stamsorc.

Temeraire507

I have to say well done ZOS. All of the races are mathematically on close levels and nothing feels totally bad. Most changes even feel good. If this hits live I will be very pleased. (although I am not that happy with the dunmer changes, but they also feel relatively balanced compared with the others so I will accept them as they are)

lihentian

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

• Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
• Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
• Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
  • A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.

Developer Comment

The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.

wood elf look terribly useless...



Y’ffre’s Endurance- this is a nerf... imo 21% is much more then 258.. at least on my build..

lets us see this build, please.

2385 stamina recovery. with 21% from current passive.
so base stamina recovery
2385/1.21=1971

with the new update
1971+258 = 2229

difference is
2385-2229=156

stamina recovery loss:156
please correct me if am wrong

p.s. if you need help building stamina recovery. then maybe you should review your equipment. i know not everyone build for sustain, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

edit:

let me show you an example.
is 21% = 258. when 258/0.21=1228

if your stamina recovery is greater then 1228, you will only lose stamina recovery.
wood is a stamina race, they do not benefit magicka build, nor tank build.
as a stamina build character if you have 1228 or less stamina recovery you are doing something wrong, or under leveled.

BaylorCorvette

On my current Orc StamSorc with battle spirit it is 25.8k health and 32.1k stam. with the changes those stats drop to 24.8k health (1k health loss) and 30.8k stam (1.2k stam loss). What I did was remove my current racial passives and went into Cyrodiil this morning to see what my stats were without racial passives and then I just added what they said the "new" Orc Stats would be. If you build for max stam it will def hurt on Orc (I'm talking 35k+) But % amps like Undaunted Mettle are better for flat values. So that deficit will be slightly smaller. I will wait and see what my stats really look like on the PTS next week but I still think Orc needs a very slight tweak and get 1k max health and stam instead of 500.

Jagdkommando

Very bad changes, for example Imperial 12% max health is huge comparing to 2000 raw plus, i have just tested that passive and it counts all external MAX HEALTH set bonuses, so this is huge nerf!!! This nerfs applied to all races where % changed to raw number. About my love, Khajits WTF is that??? 75 stam recovery???? are u serious? Khajit stamblades has extremely low sustain and u nerf it even lower??? what is the point? + u are nerfing our ONLY privilege in pvp 10% damage bonus from sneak or invis. WTF devs?? i have feeling that u really lack of ESO testers.........! as a stamblade i can say there are no any comparable to other classes mass pvp builds for them. so we have to play +- gankstyle and u are nerfing even that, plus nerfed sustain.... I dont know guys... Totally wrong changes.

deLioncourt

Nord
Increases Experience gain in Two Handed Skill Line by 15%, 15 extra minutes on drink buffs → No changes
Stalwart: 6% Max Stamina and 20% Health Recovery → Increases your Max Stamina by 1500. When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Resist Frost: 9% Max Health and 2079 Cold Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Cold Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Chilled status effect.
Rugged: 6% damage reduction → Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by 3960.

This one.

That 15 extra minutes on drink buffs. I get the whole thing that Nords drink..switch this buff to food buffs and BOOM..its glorious.

Reduce the Stalwart ult gen to 6 seconds from 10 seconds. Boom. Glorious.

"Rugged: 6% damage reduction → Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by 3960." <-- This literally does nothing. I can remove 3960 resistance worth of champion points in my tree..put them in hardy and elemental defender..etc..and boom..this trait change is worthless and does nothing.

SodanTok

lihentian wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

• Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
• Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
• Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
  • A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.

Developer Comment

The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.

wood elf look terribly useless...



Y’ffre’s Endurance- this is a nerf... imo 21% is much more then 258.. at least on my build..

lets us see this build, please.

2385 stamina recovery. with 21% from current passive.
so base stamina recovery
2385/1.21=1971

with the new update
1971+258 = 2229

difference is
2385-2229=156

stamina recovery loss:156
please correct me if am wrong

p.s. if you need help building stamina recovery. then maybe you should review your equipment. i know not everyone build for sustain, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

You are wrong. 21% is additive. So put together 514 (base) with whatever your gear of food is giving you and make 21% out of that, I bet it will be around 200 stamina regen.
Now put the new 258 and increase it by all the % you get from passives and CP and I bet it will be over 400

You just got buffed hard and went here to say you got nerfed. And thats the case with half this thread.

olda90

BALANCE = NERF = permit new players to join the game reducing the gap with exp players and make exp players rebuild many characters (and spend lot of money and time) = MARKETING STRATEGY

DC races have been almost buffed, like if this is was intended to bring more ppl to DC since they are low pop

clocksstoppe

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

• Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
• Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
• Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
  • A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.

Developer Comment

The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.

wood elf look terribly useless...



Y’ffre’s Endurance- this is a nerf... imo 21% is much more then 258.. at least on my build..

lets us see this build, please.

You cant reach 1250 stam recov? The *** are you talking about. 21% was absolutely massive

indigorune

so let me get this straight:

in the year of expansions based in the khajiiti homelands....you nerf khajiit..? they are complete trash. they already lagged behind, now they are just unusable.

my main toon cries today.

SodanTok

@clocksstoppe

Massive how? How much regen do you think you are getting from 21% and on what build that is.

n0tthesun wrote: »

so let me get this straight:

in the year of expansions based in the khajiiti homelands....you nerf khajiit..? they are complete trash. they already lagged behind, now they are just unusable.

my main toon cries today.

@n0tthesun they literally got only buffs.

Arseny

When I had firstly heard rumors about upcoming passive skills changes, I thought about morphs and flexible system with a help of which I could make my stamina argonian DD more capable, but ahhh...it's just disappointment.

Draxinusom

So wow, while it was probably unversally expected that Argonians are going to get a nerf, this is a bit too much. While other have and will continue to point out things wrong directly with the changes, I want to go from the other direction. I'll take your goals list, apply them to the presented Argonian changes and discuss those:

Goal 1: "Allow more effective options when picking a race for each role in tanking, healing, or damage dealing."

This is a complete miss on Argonian. First all changes are all nerfs except perhaps the 3% Max Magica to 1000 Max Magica flat under some very limited circumstances (certainly not a Mag DPS where 3% is less than 1000). Argonians are already very niche: Best tank, good healer. But they don't really got much going for DD as no racial is boosting damage in any form and the bonus gained from racials so far is purely sustain. Which some players like, so there are Argonian DD builds.

Now with the nerfs, the tanking crown is gone, as the nerf goes too far (HP, healing taken) and the meta moves on to Imperial or perhaps Nord ? So Goal 1 is clearly not achieved. There's nothing making Argonians "a more effective option"for DD and the existing niche gets nerfed quite hard. I don't know how much healing suffers here as at least the healing done is only 1% less, but tanking is hit big time.

Where's the more effective option for dd for Argonians?

Result: Goal 1 has failed for Argonians.

Goal 2: "Equalize the overall power that each race provides by using our set bonus efficiency system, which compares the total amount of power that a bonus provides under equal terms."

You've chosen to value all racials in a mathematical model. Fair enough. I think Argonians currently are a bit too strong, yes (and always considered it kind of a reparation back from when the game started where Argonian racials were so bad, even the most stalward Dunmer slavers had pity). But what I feel the need to point out is that your model is a bit simplistic here. Did you take into account when rating each racial how valuable each is relative to tanking, healing and dd ? Because many contribute to several, whereas some contribute only to one (+% more healing vs. +% more magica for example have a vastly different value based on your role).

Did you take into account that chugging potions with Resrouceful actualy costs a resource no other racial ability of all races does: gold (=mats/time) thus making it at least a little bit less valuable than some straight resource recovery ?

Result: Doubtful that Goal 2 was achieved for Argonians.

Goal 3: "Retain and enhance the unique feeling and gameplay patterns that each race allows."

Resourceful is still there and is unique, as well as the swim speed (although you so rarely swim this is so rare that it does something). So yeah, this one is actually achieved.

Result: Nothing fully taken away, so Goal 3 is achieved for Argonians.

Goal 4: "Improve the sense of progression that the racial passives provide when leveling up."

Since no information on the different racial ability steps given in the document, I cannot comment on this Goal.

Result: Assuming Goal 4 is ok. It's also not relevant to everyone that is level 50.

Goal 5: "Achieve the above goals while still obeying our rich and structured lore and storytelling."

Argonians losing posion immunity is weird and breaks the lore. Argonians deliberately poison themselves in lore. If Argonians need to lose one of the two immunities due to pure mathematical balance then I'd actually expect to lose diseased and not poisoned but an argument could probably be made in either case.

It doesn't change the fact however that it's against lore. Also Argonians don't get anything stealth or ambush wise even though the whole Shadow scale lore as well as the main class introduction saying: "The Argonians are possessed of a cool intellect, and are well-versed in the magical arts, stealth, and the use of blades. They are also guerilla warfare experts, long accustomed to defending their borders from invaders. They often serve as the scouts and skirmishers for the forces of the Pact."

Result: Goal 5 not achieved and further diminished by removing lore-based poison immunity.


So while I do believe that Argonian racials should get a bit of a nerf, this iteration fails on 3 of 5 of the stated goals, wheras we can't even analyse Goal 4 for the lack of information. However that's ok because it's laregly irrelevant to all players already levelled and many probably agree that if anything the implications are only very temporarily anyway.

But if these changes go through, really only one goal was achieved, Goal number 3 and that too is at the same place more or less than it was before. Ie.: not an improvement.

So please ZOS, back to the drawing board with this one, yes?

Derra

Galarthor wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

@Tasear Bretons are way ahead of Altmers in terms of sustain with these changes!

Really?

Yes by far.

Ofc it depends on how many spells you cast and how expensive they are at base - but the 7% cost reduction passive is worth between 350 and 450 mag recovery in stat sheet.
The 100 base regen breton gets will be almost enough to put breton on the same sustain as altmer with their passive.

@Derra how did you get those numbers? Just curious b/c I ran my calculations with an assumed average cost (pre-cost reduction) of 3000 per second. Just curious ^^

On my sorc my average base cost across all my abilities is somewhere at 3500 magica. For masterreach builds it´s more like 3800 base cost.
So i calculate from that base and then go to like ~50 to 55 skills/s for permanent casting.

Ofc this gets altered by class you play and which abilities you use how frequently - a lower base cost class like NB or warden won´t benefit as much.
Templar massively depends on which skills they use.
Same goes for DK - pve rotation is cheap comparatively - support skills are expensive.

But if you start at a higher base magicka cost per second than me, how do you end up at lower magicka regeneration-equivalents than I do? (total of 450 to 550 VS. 625). With higher base cost you should arrive at a value greater than mine

I am also not sure what ~50 to 55 skills per second for permanent casting is supposed to me.

I am just want to make sure I got the right picture so I can make the right race choice.

Well i calculate how much magica is saved on average per spell.
Then i multiply this by the amount of spells i cast (on average) per minute.
The number i get is the amount of magica saved per minute from which i calculate to how much regen it translates to (30 regen ticks per minute so /30).
Edit: I use 1 minute as a baseline because most recovery related sets have a 1m or 30s timer - makes it easy to compare them.

How do you reach your numbers?

Rule of thumb: If you have more than 258 magica recovery in your template that CAN be replaced by spelldmg (this means setbonuses, mundus but not food) breton will be slightly ahead of altmer unless you also heavily utilize the % dmg reduction from casting/channeling.

lihentian

SodanTok wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

• Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
• Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
• Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
  • A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.

Developer Comment

The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.

wood elf look terribly useless...



Y’ffre’s Endurance- this is a nerf... imo 21% is much more then 258.. at least on my build..

lets us see this build, please.

2385 stamina recovery. with 21% from current passive.
so base stamina recovery
2385/1.21=1971

with the new update
1971+258 = 2229

difference is
2385-2229=156

stamina recovery loss:156
please correct me if am wrong

p.s. if you need help building stamina recovery. then maybe you should review your equipment. i know not everyone build for sustain, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

You are wrong. 21% is additive. So put together 514 (base) with whatever your gear of food is giving you and make 21% out of that, I bet it will be around 200 stamina regen.
Now put the new 258 and increase it by all the % you get from passives and CP and I bet it will be over 400

You just got buffed hard and went here to say you got nerfed. And thats the case with half this thread.

ok champion point Mooncalf under the lover give 15% stamina recovery for 100 point.

if 258 > 21%
assume 258 = 21%
then 15% = 258/0.21*0.15=184

are you telling me that 100 point in Mooncalf grant less then 184 stamina recovery?

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Mooncalf

JobooAGS

lihentian wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

• Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
• Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
• Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
  • A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.

Developer Comment

The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.

wood elf look terribly useless...



Y’ffre’s Endurance- this is a nerf... imo 21% is much more then 258.. at least on my build..

lets us see this build, please.

2385 stamina recovery. with 21% from current passive.
so base stamina recovery
2385/1.21=1971

with the new update
1971+258 = 2229

difference is
2385-2229=156

stamina recovery loss:156
please correct me if am wrong

p.s. if you need help building stamina recovery. then maybe you should review your equipment. i know not everyone build for sustain, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

edit:

let me show you an example.
is 21% = 258. when 258/0.21=1228

if your stamina recovery is greater then 1228, you will only lose stamina recovery.
wood is a stamina race, they do not benefit magicka build, nor tank build.
as a stamina build character if you have 1228 or less stamina recovery you are doing something wrong, or under leveled.

How many points into regen for cp, what class? Is this screenshot with all buffs?

ATreeGnome

The hybrid bonuses look pretty over valued. A dunmer will be completely outclassed by altmer for magic and orcs for stamina.

It's harder to make a direct comparison to the other races for khajiit but they look like they're only marginally more useful than dunmer. I hope the health recovery was counted as adding a value of zero to the "roughly 6.5 set bonuses" worth of racial passives because that's exactly what it is worth.

And let's not even try to pretend that this game has anything in it to make hybrid DPS anything other than laughable.

I like most of the other changes though.

xaraan

Masel wrote: »

Let me give you a statement on why I see these changes as an overall improvement. First, let me clear a few things up that people do not seem to understand when they look at these changes:

1. Flat stats are a buff, NOT a nerf. These get amplified by all % buffs you have and will translate to at least the same stat density as before, in many instances even more. In no CP content and instances where you have warhorn available, this is a significant buff especially.

Can I see your math on how 1K health is equal to 9% bonus on my Argonian tank?

Expected sets to run are Ebon/Alkosh/LW. So I'm curious as to how it's a buff and 1K will end up being equal to or over 3K.

(This isn't counting that 1K bonus magicka may be a buff for a non magicka build that doens't use magicka lol - but will force a tank build to take points or enchants from health and put into stam to make sure stam is higher than magicka if they want stam back from shards.)

I mean, I know it's crazy anyway to play all argonians, and it obviously wasn't a choice made b/c they are OP or I wouldn't be playing them for PvE dps - but looking at the racial changes - literally every single character I play will get worse from this patch. The argonian passives were not that strong for a non-support build (even in PvP) to not offer them something to benefit them in the DPS department in exchange.

I also see people bringing up that they needed a nerf - first of all, that's arguable, but I expected it anyway just b/c the "meta-complaint" was that they did. BUT, if you are nerfing some races to bring them down to where others are, but then buffing other races to bring them up - guess what, all you did was swap some positions around instead of balance anything.

amir412

Derra wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Aluneth wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

1. Flat stats are a buff, NOT a nerf. These get amplified by all % buffs you have and will translate to at least the same stat density as before, in many instances even more. In no CP content and instances where you have warhorn available, this is a significant buff especially.

I'm curious, what % buffs? As a stamina Warden, where do I get 'all' these % stamina buffs? Undaunted?

Explain to me how a +2000 stamina, will give me the same (or more!) as 10% of 48k?

I'll explain, this dude has no idea what he is talking about xD

I tested the current build that i have, Right now its:
39,699 Stamina.

Without redguard and undauted i sit at:
34,224
Add the 2k redguard passive
36,224
Add 6% undauted again:
38,397

So overall i lost like, 1,302 stamina which is like 100 in tool tips - Not that bad, but its sure better now to stack weapon damage - Which in my opinion really destroy build diversity.

I would love to get insight if i forgot something in this calculation, i was testing this on a DK knight, beside undauted, i couldnt recall another % max stat buff.

Did you add 20% stats from cp? @amir412

yup, i used the build editor and tweaked my build.. im not sure its calculated right @Derra