Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

dimensional

All of the changes look great and i can't wait to try them out. Purple complaining just need to adapt and figure things out. MMOs are dynamic and anyways changing, mathematically these new passives check out and they're not imbalanced with tons of power disparity. L2P, people.

dimensional

Audens wrote: »

The Dunmer change is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. There is now no reason to choose Dunmer over Altmer for mag DPS. Or for anything really, other than an RP hybrid build.

Wrong, everything about this post shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Shantu

Like the last round of frustrating nerfs, so much thought and effort into more "balance" changes that only the development team seems to want and need. Who has been complaining about racial passives? I really don't get it.

SodanTok

lihentian wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

• Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
• Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
• Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
  • A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.

Developer Comment

The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.

wood elf look terribly useless...



Y’ffre’s Endurance- this is a nerf... imo 21% is much more then 258.. at least on my build..

lets us see this build, please.

2385 stamina recovery. with 21% from current passive.
so base stamina recovery
2385/1.21=1971

with the new update
1971+258 = 2229

difference is
2385-2229=156

stamina recovery loss:156
please correct me if am wrong

p.s. if you need help building stamina recovery. then maybe you should review your equipment. i know not everyone build for sustain, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

You are wrong. 21% is additive. So put together 514 (base) with whatever your gear of food is giving you and make 21% out of that, I bet it will be around 200 stamina regen.
Now put the new 258 and increase it by all the % you get from passives and CP and I bet it will be over 400

You just got buffed hard and went here to say you got nerfed. And thats the case with half this thread.

ok champion point Mooncalf under the lover give 15% stamina recovery for 100 point.

if 258 > 21%
assume 258 = 21%
then 15% = 258/0.21*0.15=184

are you telling me that 100 point in Mooncalf grant less then 184 stamina recovery?

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Mooncalf

Mooncalf? There is 28% from 7 medium armor, there is like 12% on warden, 25% on nightblade, 20% on stamsorc. There is 10% on vampire. There is 20% on potions. 15% on mooncalf as you said. Let me make it more clear.

I dont know your build and how much you were buffed in that picture. But the only way mooncalf gives you 184 stamina recovery is if you are running 1226 base regen. That means somewhere on your gear, mundus and food you have total of 712 regen. 21% of that situation would be the 258 regen. Now you get 258 regen to the base. So your base regen will be 1484 and mooncalf will be giving you 222.

getemshauna

Soris

[imperial, redguard, orc] Percentage based proc chance to restore health/mag/stam from damage sources should include all damage types whether dot or direct damage. This would make them more universal and accesible between classes and it will be easier to proc.

karios525

Great so you screw us over by replacing % to flat values which are pathetically low, meaning for you guys who can't grasp maths stats will drop. Next stupid zos decision, bad enough eso lacks the magic of the actual true elder scrolls games. I for one really hope they lose their player base this year as they are a bunch of stupid clueless children. Fix your fricking bugs and sort your garbage servers first but you won't all you care about is money

Engris1988

Hm damn... I was really hoping to see some Magicka benefits from Imperials with these Balance changes even at the cost of some survivability or max stamina if need be.

Malacthulhu

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Malacthulhu wrote: »

The argonian bonus for drinking a potion should be a % return on health/magic/stam instead of a flat value, (even if it had something to gain as a flat value that would be op) otherwise as the game progresses you will just have to buff it again or ignore it. The rest of the bonuses are a huge buff, should be interesting.

It was a percentage before and it was absolute garbage.

As a flat value it will become garbage again over time. As a % bonus it remains the same regardless if max health stam or magic is pushed further in future updates. If it was garbage before it was because it was set to low of a %. When you combine it with a tri stat potion it is quite the gain. Basic math, the argument that you think it was garbage before does not support any factual reasoning to your opinion in regards. I would also take a guess and say a 14% return is adequate when taking into account tristat pots. Realistically it should be a flat regen bonus while the potion lasts if they want to go flat bonus route.

ZarkingFrued

technohic wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Didn't think it would happen but Nord got a Nerf against bleed builds lol

Yeah somehow it feels like nord was nerfed and orc and redgaurd buffed. There goes my synergy with steed.

Orc literally only has 2 passives now lol. In my opinion they deleted the first.

Rex-Umbra

Might switch my Breton to high elf or dark elf for the pew pew

karios525

No it wasn't do the math % scales off max stats even after buff food so yes way higher than these stupid low flat numbers go do the arithmetic

BaylorCorvette

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Didn't think it would happen but Nord got a Nerf against bleed builds lol

Yeah somehow it feels like nord was nerfed and orc and redgaurd buffed. There goes my synergy with steed.

Orc literally only has 2 passives now lol. In my opinion they deleted the first.

Yeah that 500 health and stam is laughable. Based on other classes, 1k for each seems a better fit.

ereboz

I like it. I can work with this. Making melee feel more warrior like and magic more mage like

katorga

Why don't the conversions from percentage resource to static amount scale the same. 10% is 2000, yet 9% is 1000? etc. Overall nerfs to max health and health regen builds. Will be interesting to see how these align with Necromancer. Will be interesting to see if Percentage stat/regen increase class and armor passives stay the same.

High Elf - huge buff. Just wow for Templar with Cyrodill's light, channeling Mist form. Probably best healer, dps magicka race.
Argonian - nerf
WoodElf - probably a buff, only good for stam.
Breton - huge buff. New magicka DK race.
DE - max staf nerf, still best hybrid race
Imperial - meh, max health nerf.
Khajit - big buff. viable as magicka now.
Nord - not sure, nerf to rugged, but Ult regen might be best passive. Nord Wardens will spam ults.
Orc - huge buff.
Redguard - huge buff

Starlock

I like it! Thank you for preserving the feel of the different races! Some of these changes will even enhance the flavor of my characters.

karios525

No you are wrong on a 40k hp tank 9% extra health is 3600 hp so we will take a nerf zos need to stop screwing us over with their pathetic needs obvious not even Gillam the trampy rogue sell out even plays the game anymore

lassitershawn

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

If you had a race with 10% max stamina or magicka, and your final build was around 40k magicka or stamina, then these changes are nerfing you by HALF. You will lose effectively 2000 of the 4000 resources in your max pool (39600/1.1) = 36,000 + 2000 = 38,000

• If you ran a Breton or High Elf Magicka build with 40k magicka, you now have 38k magicka. I guess Magnus is an indian giver.
• If you ran a Redguard Stamina damage build with 40k stamina, you now have lost effectively 200 weapon damage.
• If you ran a 50k health imperial tank, you now have 46.6k Health

This isn't "Balance" this is nerfing the top damage dealing builds in the game. This is the price of power creep.

This isn't the case, the 2k magicka should be affected by % magicka increases and I saw somewhere that the final difference is only around 1k on a fairly high magicka build.

SodanTok

karios525 wrote: »

No you are wrong on a 40k hp tank 9% extra health is 3600 hp so we will take a nerf zos need to stop screwing us over with their pathetic needs obvious not even Gillam the trampy rogue sell out even plays the game anymore

That is totally false and just proves you know very little about math calculation of these stats.

On my 38520 HP argonian tank, 9% is 2595

Trancestor

Please make it something like this and you won't trigger anyone with yet again more nerfs and force people to buy tokens:

High Elf

Spellcharge: 9% Magicka Recovery → Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka after activating a Magicka Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2500.
Elemental Talent: 4% Fire/Shock/Ice damage → Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

Argonian

Resourceful: Gain 3% Max Magicka and restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion → Increases your Max Magicka and Stamina by 500. Restore 3600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.
Argonian Resistance: 9% Max Health and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1500 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
Quick to Mend: 5% Healing Done and Received → Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done and Recieved by 4%.

Wood Elf

Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 10% Movement Speed for 4 seconds.

Bosmer

Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Increases your Max Magicka by 2500.
Spell Resistance: 3960 Spell Resistance → Gain 2310 Spell Resistance and 100 Magicka Recovery.
Magicka Mastery: 3% Magicka Cost Reduction → Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%. Gain flat reduction of snares by 15%.

Dark Elf

Dynamic: 6% Max Stamina and Magicka → Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250.
Resist Flame: 3% Max Magicka and 2079 Flame Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 750 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect.
Destructive Ancestry: 7% Flame damage and 2% Frost/Shock Damage → Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 175. Increases your flame damage by 4%.

Imperial

Tough: 12% Max Health → Increases your Max Health by 3000.
Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 3000.
Red Diamond: 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 2000. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 10%.

Khajiit

Nimble: 20% Health Recovery and 10% Stamina Recovery → Robustness: Increases your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 150.
Stealthy: Reduce detection radius by 3m and Increase damage from Stealth by 10% → Lunar Blessings: Increases your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 750.
Carnage: Increase Weapon Critical Chance by 8% → Feline Ambush: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.

Nord

Stalwart: 6% Max Stamina and 20% Health Recovery → Increases your Max Stamina by 1500. When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Resist Frost: 9% Max Health and 2079 Cold Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1750 and your Cold Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Chilled status effect.
Rugged: 6% damage reduction → Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by 3960.

Orc

Brawny: 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 1250.
Unflinching: Healing Received by 5% and 20% Health Recovery → Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal melee damage you restore 760 Health and 380 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
Swift Warrior: 4% Melee attack, 12% Sprint cost reduction and 10% Sprint Speed → Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.

Redguard

Exhilaration: 9% Stamina Recovery → Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Stamina abilities by 5%.
Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Stamina by 2500.
Adrenaline Rush: When you deal damage with a melee attack you restore 792 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. → When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 850 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

drodgreen

I do like the changes. I just don’t think they went far enough. I would like to have seen players given more options for how they wanted to play a certain race. If players could choose from a list of race passives then they would have the ability to break away from the meta. When was the last time you seen a High Elf stamina class or an Orc magic class? My point exactly.

karios525

You can't add can you idiot I know what 9% max health is of 40k if you can't add use a calculator argonian has been utterly nerfed no decent race for tanking anymore as all have been nerfed really hope this is the year zos start to lose their player base for being clueless as to balance

Lord_Eomer

LLawlietW wrote: »

Why was redguard buffed? how does that make sense when they are already considered the best race for stamina dps. and then the second best option khajiit gets nerfed. i just dont understand how that is supposed to make sense at all. now khajiit has more health recovery than stam... but yea lets buff adrenaline rush

6% cost reductions only applied to weapon skill line not class skills so i think there is nothing wrong with new change.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Edaphon wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

[*]Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

Can we please get something useful instead?
Reduced cost for roll dodge for example. Even just +10 health would be better than this.

no, 20 percent speed buff is amazing

You do realize that this is a weaker version of a passive that already exists in the Bow skill line -- which most Bosmer are probably already going to have due to their other passive? The +3m stealth detection bonus is a huge nothing since nearly 0.0% of PvE enemies use stealth. So, really, Bosmer completely lose a racial passive.

It will stack so no useless!

lassitershawn

dimensional wrote: »

Audens wrote: »

The Dunmer change is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. There is now no reason to choose Dunmer over Altmer for mag DPS. Or for anything really, other than an RP hybrid build.

Wrong, everything about this post shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Not really. Dunmer got f**ked hard for PvE. It is now lower damage and lower sustain than altmer, possibly lower damage than khajiit. Previously the choice was more balanced between altmer and dunmer because altmer had more sustain and dunmer more damage. Most endgame PvE players choose dunmer this patch for magicka toons and if these changes go live everyone will be race changing multiple toons. In my opinion the dunmer change is one of the only poor ones on the list though.

karios525

And am done with this bs once and for all taking my guild both n.a. and eu sides back to wow done with zos gonna cancel my pre order for the next chapter this game is becoming more crap every year let's not forget how dull combat is

Lord_Eomer

John_Falstaff wrote: »

So khajiits are left jack of all trades, masters of none. Thank you, ZOS. Thank you a lot; that's the most lousy balancing job so far.

As for redguards, then they got a buff:

At base 750 regen, they lost 9%, so loss of 67.5 regen.
Rending slashes present in any rotation, 2160 stamina. With 12-second rotation, gain of 28.8 regen.
New Adrenaline Rush - gain of 63.2 regen.

So, they got a small, but still a buff in sustain.

Khajit need be playable as mages, they can use some buff but i love to play them as Mageblade!

khemdog

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Orc

• Increases Experience gain in Heavy Armor Skill Line by 15%, extra 10% Inspiration gain → No changes
• Brawny: 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500.
• Unflinching: Healing Received by 5% and 20% Health Recovery → Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 380 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
• Swift Warrior: 4% Melee attack, 12% Sprint cost reduction and 10% Sprint Speed → Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.

Developer Comment

Why is orc the only one getting boned this hard on max stats? sounds like some racism.

Swift warrior only usable when sprinting, that 258 weapon damage is literally less than half a percent boost to weapon damage for most orcs.

sharquez

LightMaster7 wrote: »

So is this a big FU to redguard sorcerers? So now your saying any class that doesn't have a magic bonus has no business being a magic user or sorcerer class?

I thought the race change was supposed to bring about more diversity in choices for a race? But your saying completely the opposite.

And *** NO, I aint going to change my race just to fit your mold. I'd rather quit this game.

Actually Redguards can totally do magicka sorc with these changes, they would be better for pvp however and you wouldn't have to spec a single point into anything stamina related as its all built into the class. great dark deal users as well = no sustain building needed.

indigorune

SodanTok wrote: »

n0tthesun wrote: »

so let me get this straight:

in the year of expansions based in the khajiiti homelands....you nerf khajiit..? they are complete trash. they already lagged behind, now they are just unusable.

my main toon cries today.

@n0tthesun they literally got only buffs.

seriously? no. stam recovery went from 10% to 75. this hurts my build.

i don't need increases to max mag or mag recovery, as i'm not--and i don't think anyone else is--running a khajiit as a mag toon. this isn't a buff, it's useless.

in comparison to a race like redguard that gets 2000 max stam increase, khajiit only gets 750 max stam increase. that is incomparable. additionally, redguard gets 950 stam recovery when dealing damaage. that's simply better than khajiit. the race becomes useless when stacked against the other options.

Nyladreas

Redguard is like... What the *BLEEPING BLEEP*?!?!?!?!?!? Congrats on completely annihilating any other race for PvE stam dps.

How can anyone even remotely bloody justify this change. That's absolutely ridiculous and unfair. Nearly 1000 recovery every FIVE seconds? That's like chugging mini potions. "Oh but it's direct damage bla bla..." stamblades are going to have a stroke from laughter of pure joy...

The kitty recovery is sad too. How come wood elf got 258 stam recovery for 21% but Khajiit got 100 health for 20% and stupid low mag+stam (75)for 10%?!?!?!?!?!

If 21% = 258, then 20% and 10% SHOULD = 375.
But it's only 250 in combined values. The change has a good idea accompanying it, but then I remember again - REDGUARD LOL. Out of respect it should either be 225 health or 100 health and 137 magicka and 137 stamina. And don't even try to say 750 resource bonus justifies this lol. That's like taking someone's money and trying to pay it back with a Starbucks gift card.

Also... Nice *BLEEP* up altogether. We hoped for more homogenized approach to allow freedom of choice without any disadvantage. Meanwhile your "freedom" translates as THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE.

Sorry but the changes are kinda pathetic. About the only good balancing change is the kitty crits. Good job there.