Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

elven.were_wolf

The only thing I didn’t like was that khajiit got a higher reduced stealth detection radius of 5m while wood elves just get 3m. That makes anyone wanting to play with the justice system in the game HAS to choose khajiit. So now my wood elf thief is at a big disadvantage in the justice system. As Khajiit get a higher pickpocket chance bonus AND increased detection reduction radius. That’s my only dislike of these changes

Cundu_Ertur

Galarthor wrote: »

Tbh, the only thing I am really worried about is the 20% speed buff on fpr Bosmers. Those perma-dodgers will be right back to where they were with before the necessary Swift nerf. You can rest assured, they will proc this passive on cooldown and thus run 75% of the time at such high speeds that the game can once again not keep up with it and you won't be able to hit them even when they are not dodging for a second or two.

Give them Bosmer something else. Don't break the game again by introducing speeds that your game cannot handel @ZOS_Gilliam

I agree, which is why I've suggested either tying this with expedition so it won't stack with Hasty Retreat or replacing it with a cheaper cost for roll dodging.

Along with returning actual stealth. I mean, seriously, a wood elf without stealth is just a miniature high elf with no magic.

Ritter

One race change per account is bizarre when players have up to 15 characters, potentially with massive time and monetary investment poured into them. It costs ZOS nothing to make this right and many of us have already paid real money to change races due to realizing the shortcomings of the old race system when it was too late to make a meaningful choice.

A race change per character costs ZOS nothing and fits the precedent for major updates that I would argue was set when we went from veteran levels to CP.

At absolute minimum, you have to at least offer one plus X race changes,where X is equal to how many a person has paid cash for in the past.

SirLeeMinion

I have 15 max level characters, iirc, most are on one account. One free race change token per account. Seriously?! It should be one per maxed toon, and it should include a name change. Class change tokens don't exist. But, most of us selected races for a given class and role. Unlike the Murkmire and Morrowind nerfs that allowed one to respec and trudge on, you can't change class.

As an example, I'm ever so glad my PvE Bosmers will now have a stealth detection bonus, since "...many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!" RIP

Pathetic.

Sygil05

Thanks ZOS! - It's great to see this well written explanation of the upcoming changes and what metric was used to determine how it's being balanced. It's obvious some actual thought was put into this process, rather than just taking a hammer to the more obvious problematic racial passives. I hope we see more posts like this in the future when broad changes are being implemented.

Little nervous to see the changes to Dunmer, but since they're coupled with across-the-board racial changes, I'll withhold judgement until I can actually test how well it works out for myself.

Cundu_Ertur

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

The only thing I didn’t like was that khajiit got a higher reduced stealth detection radius of 5m while wood elves just get 3m. That makes anyone wanting to play with the justice system in the game HAS to choose khajiit. So now my wood elf thief is at a big disadvantage in the justice system. As Khajiit get a higher pickpocket chance bonus AND increased detection reduction radius. That’s my only dislike of these changes

Actually, no. What wood elves get is a 3m bonus to SEEING things that are hidden. They get not the slightest bonus to actually hiding themselves. Read the developer comments, it makes it clear that it is about detecting potential threats. The name is a give-away, too. But you are correct, Khajiit is the only race now for stealth, only it is actually much worse than you thought.


Enjoy your day.

Panda_iMunch

Peaks were cut and bottoms were made better for the general population. The changes to flat values instead of percents might be helpful to prevent super high values, but we'll see.

GaunterODim

I didnt ask for magicka bonuses for khajiit. The 8% spellcrit are not bad and Ive always wondered why it wasnt a thing to begin with, but I dislike the magicka stat and regen bonuses as they subtract from stamina and health bonuses.

Id prefer it if theyd done it similar to the altmer passives where you would get something out of the spellcrit, but the rest would be stamina oriented with a bit of health.
Anyone that played a magicka based khajiit before doesnt care much about numbers and would still get a huge buff with the crit.

Derra

Galarthor wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

@Tasear Bretons are way ahead of Altmers in terms of sustain with these changes!

Really?

Yes by far.

Ofc it depends on how many spells you cast and how expensive they are at base - but the 7% cost reduction passive is worth between 350 and 450 mag recovery in stat sheet.
The 100 base regen breton gets will be almost enough to put breton on the same sustain as altmer with their passive.

@Derra how did you get those numbers? Just curious b/c I ran my calculations with an assumed average cost (pre-cost reduction) of 3000 per second. Just curious ^^

On my sorc my average base cost across all my abilities is somewhere at 3500 magica. For masterreach builds it´s more like 3800 base cost.
So i calculate from that base and then go to like ~50 to 55 skills/s for permanent casting.

Ofc this gets altered by class you play and which abilities you use how frequently - a lower base cost class like NB or warden won´t benefit as much.
Templar massively depends on which skills they use.
Same goes for DK - pve rotation is cheap comparatively - support skills are expensive.

Vahrokh

So, basically this whole thing sums up to just another (not really) steatlh magsorc nerf, in particular a Dark Elf magsorc nerf.

I have worked on my main, Dark Elf magsorc for YEARS to do the impossible and keep her somewhat competitive in hm trials vs "dime a dozen" Altmers. And now you put her further down?

Carbonised

Vahrokh wrote: »

So, basically this whole thing sums up to just another (not really) steatlh magsorc nerf, in particular a Dark Elf magsorc nerf.

I have worked on my main, Dark Elf magsorc for YEARS to do the impossible and keep her somewhat competitive in hm trials vs "dime a dozen" Altmers. And now you put her further down?

I hear you. I have 5 Dunmer mag chars, one of each class, and they essentially shafted Dunmer as a viable mag race, to make it at least competitive as a stam race. It's a buff for Dunmer stam specs, and a huge nerf for all Dunmer mag specs. Considering that Dunmer has been a mag oriented race since the game's conception, this is completely and utterly unacceptable.

Freakin_Hytte

Wooow we get 1 entire race change token for free?!?! Thank you sooo much zos!!! My one lucky char that I change for free will love it while my wallet will hate you for forcing me to spend money on race change tokens which already are expensive.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

I do like most changes, except that you *** up my favorite race dunmer trying to force us into hybrid builds that will always and forever suck donkeyballs, give us back our flame damage!

hmsdragonfly

GIVE ME BACK MY TELVANNI PYROMANCER

Jerdeh

I think these are good changes.

Oathunbound

could we possibly see something in the way of either a max stam boost or possibly a bigger health boost for the removal of the poison resistance and self healing nerf, nothing huge, maby 1.5k hp and 1k stam. That way they get somthing in the way of a boost for DPS both mag and stam? The comment that argos were twice as good as other races is absurd, a edge in PvP? yes ill agree with the potion passive (which i expected much worse nerfs). in PvE? they only were great at supports, now they are "ok" for support and offer jack didly for DPS roles. I just figured if you nerf the support you buff the damage to compensate, instead you just nerfed, and left it as is.


Granted as others have said this really only matter for End end pve content (trial progression groups pushing scoreboard runs)

Chaos2088

Was really hoping we would play any race anyway we want and be viable for end content. But hey its an improvement I guess.

firedrgn

Gilliam! Greetings!

Rikumaru

Wood elf speed passive looks fun as hell and pretty unique too. Wanted an excuse to run wood elf and you've given me one, neat.

PIEGOD

Khydan wrote: »

Can someone please translate this for me? Who got nerfed and who got buffed? How is my boy Breton doing?

Its looking tough for breton coach

deLioncourt

Great...basically, shields nerfed again. A flat reduction of all magicka across the board..shields will be even weaker..Petsorcs are even worse dps now, and you've gone and fked up my Nord.

Yaaaaaaay.....

Most of these changes are just straight nerfs.

Based on these, my sorc is going to lose almost 3.5k magicka..my shields will get nerfed AGAIN..and my dps nerfed..AGAIN.

Not only did you kill shield builds with the murkmire patch..you're pouring concrete in the grave with these changes.

Aztlan

I love the changes for Khajiit, especially in PvP. This makes us very versatile and maintains our stealthy, hard-hitting style. The additional health and magicka are very welcome, and I am glad we still have high health recovery, which pairs beautifully with Artaeum Takeaway Broth.

Cillion3117

Imperial Necromancer here I come!

Raapnaap

> "We want more player freedom!"

Great, I always thought it was weird how you were forced to play a speci---

> "All Magicka users must now play High Elf as the previous alternatives are obsolete!"

--- You what?

Edit: Side note, some of these changes especially for Dark Elves fundamentally change the race into something that wasn't supported before, while detracting significantly from the previous roles. This is bound to annoy a LOT of people. A more logical option would have been to remove racial bonuses outright, at least then everyone would be nerfed equally.

anadandy

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Actually, no. What wood elves get is a 3m bonus to SEEING things that are hidden. They get not the slightest bonus to actually hiding themselves.

Ah - that's what I thought it meant. Being able to detect stealth is pretty much useless outside PVP - my thief-y sneaky Bosmer will be unhappy.

Silver lining: Maybe I'll finally let my Night's Silence set go...

Aliyavana

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

The only thing I didn’t like was that khajiit got a higher reduced stealth detection radius of 5m while wood elves just get 3m. That makes anyone wanting to play with the justice system in the game HAS to choose khajiit. So now my wood elf thief is at a big disadvantage in the justice system. As Khajiit get a higher pickpocket chance bonus AND increased detection reduction radius. That’s my only dislike of these changes

The justice system isnt hard, i do just fine on my redguard stam sorc

LonePirate

The AP bonus for Bretons and the Gold bonus for Imperials need to be swapped.

The changes from percentages to flat values will result in several nerfs. For instance, I have a High Elf with around 38K Magicka right now. She will have 36K-37K after this patch.

tmbrinks

Most of the changes look good to me. Some overpowered classes got some minor nerfs, especially if they were stat stacking. Some others got buffs to make them stronger.

Browsing the comments I think many people are forgetting that the flat stat increases are base stat increases, which will be further buffed by armor passives and undaunted passives, which will significantly close the gap between them.

Overall, I'm happy at a first glance. Will wait for the PTS to do some testing, but it seems the only race change I may need to do with with my Dunmer nightblade.

Wouldn't argue with getting more than 1 race change token however... maybe 1 per 4 characters you have "unlocked" so a base of 2, up to 4 if you have all 15 unlocked

hakan

As a Dunmer Stamblade, these changes pleases me.

lihentian

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

• Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
• Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
• Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
  • A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.

Developer Comment

The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.

wood elf look terribly useless...

10% fall damage is just a sick joke. usually people only take fall damage out of combat. which make this tiny damage reduction meaningless

Y’ffre’s Endurance- this is a nerf... imo 21% is much more then 258.. at least on my build..

Resist Affliction- not bad.. but poison damage is not very common in both pvp and pve.. at least when comparing with other elemental such as fire and ice...

Hunter’s Eye: ??? stealth detection? really??? why the hell does anyone want this? there is mage light, in pvp. and in pve no one ever need this thing...

both khajiit and wood elf are been known for their sneaky and thievery culture. why only the cat get everything that is useful???? please at least give one trait to the wood elf, for gum's sake this is the only reason i ever choose wood elf... because i can stealth better and i don't have to have a tail on my rear end..

my suggestion

change 10% fall damage to 15% movement speed while stealth.

change stealth detection to chance of getting better result from pickpocket.

CleymenZero

Savos_Saren wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

Pretty damn good changes, bud. People haven't realized yet how Dunmer is, perhaps, the most versatile race out there. Argonians will still be great as healers or tanks. Khajiit will now cater to PVP, PVE, and (ironically) casual RPers. This, all the while, allows people to still min/max their characters to be higher DPS/Tank/Healer builds with Altmer, Breton, Redguard, Orc, Imperial, Bosmer, and Nord.

Sorry, I don't know how versed you are in endgame content but the statement that Dunmers are the most versatile and then stating that it will allow to min/max is incoherent. The changes to Dunmers disqualifies it as a min/maxer as it will master nothing but be ok at both. Having 3 Dunmers within my 14 toons is upsetting me quite a bit...