Kick fake dps in undaunted event?

StormChaser3000

LeagueTroll wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Lol, OP, was it you on PC NA server in Grathwood yelling in the zone chat that you need 100.000k dps and everyone else is a trash tier?

It looks like you queues sometimes take longer than dps queues xD Oh no, wait, even longer since you are getting kicked from groups for your 12 years old attitude.

Hmm sounds like something i say for dsa.

That definitely wasn't DSA. I don't remember exactly but it was 100% one of the lower tier vet dungeons, like BC 1 or FG 1. But even in case of DSA (which is actually easy too) why would anyone post stuff like that? You get the same attitude in response as you give them.

Hint: being nice to other people makes miracles and improves the aftertaste from dungeons a lot.

Hell no, I don’t want to play with potato and run into dps issue. I want to play with ppl who can do the dmg. Then I need to care about is mechanics.

Being nice to trash resulted in me progressing much slower in my first year of eso.

So typical.. Well, keep enjoying being kicked then.
You absolutely deserve that.

wolf486

First time I ever I put to vote to kick someone. Guy would run and aggro large groups of enemies then aggro a boss, then he would hide in the corner and just stand there.

At least the "I can solo group dungeon" people do something even though they rush through things and go way ahead of the group. Already can't wait for this event to be over.

Tatanko

Royaji wrote: »

If a tank who is not taunting the boss is considered a fake tank, a healer who is not healing the group is considered a fake healer

I never said either of those things. Once more: fraud requires intent.

NocturnalSonata

Fake tank = No taunt
Fake Heal = No heal
Fake Dps = No dmg

There is your objective qualification.

A DD who roles out 5k dps is not performing role optimally, but remains a DD, as that is the role they selected and are preforming the objective requirements to fulfill the role (albeit poorly). Like it or not, damage is being done.

A tank without taunt is not performing role at all.

Because tank/healers require different variable to qualify as their role is not a suitable comparative to suggest 5k DPS is fake DD. This is false equivalence, and a clear misrepresentation of the objective/subjective distinction.

To the point of Kicking: why on earth would you kick on a normal, non dlc? If the second DD spams 1k damage hiding in a bush, the dungeon will still get cleared no problem.

Gythral

Cant we just kick the
fake group finder
instead?

Malcadicta

I don't really think there are many "fake dps" - I get "fake tanks/healers" who to me are people who are dps and queue as something else to get into dungeon faster.
That said there are just plain bad dds out there and with those I'd say it depends - if it's someone relatively low level I'm not going to kick them, been there done that, you need time to grow in skill points (if under lvl 50) and time to master rotation and tactic. If it's higher level… I'm going to ty to be nice. There are people out there who don't know the tactics simply because they play casually and no one ever told them they exist. If they don't listen I'll vote to kick but tbh it rarely pasess.

That is if I'm on the tank/healer. If I'm on my dd and we're talking either normal or non-dlc vet I'm just going to kill everything and finish it with or without their help (though I will try to explain tactics if they have no clue what is happening).

I guess I tend to try to be nice to dds, I've always played as one and if not for the fact that some people explained tactics to me at the beginning I'd probably one of the fake dps.

NupidStoob

No point to run pure healer or pure tank if you are going to queue for it. Queuing for DLC is usually a waste of time anyways so you barely ever have a need to be in your full on tank or healer setup. I don't understand how people can do it, it's deliberate selfharm. Just run a half DPS setup and you can still easily do 20k while performing your role well enough.

Best solution is obviously to not even join this madness and go with guildies.

ZeroXFF

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

Fake tank = No taunt
Fake Heal = No heal
Fake Dps = No dmg

There is your objective qualification.

A DD who roles out 5k dps is not performing role optimally, but remains a DD, as that is the role they selected and are preforming the objective requirements to fulfill the role (albeit poorly). Like it or not, damage is being done.

A tank without taunt is not performing role at all.

Because tank/healers require different variable to qualify as their role is not a suitable comparative to suggest 5k DPS is fake DD. This is false equivalence, and a clear misrepresentation of the objective/subjective distinction.

To the point of Kicking: why on earth would you kick on a normal, non dlc? If the second DD spams 1k damage hiding in a bush, the dungeon will still get cleared no problem.

1. Nobody talking about fake DDs is talking about normals.
2. If a tank who has literally 0 investment in damage output can do 5k DPS, a DD that is supposedly specced for it should be doing more. If that is not the case, they are fake DDs, as nothing about their build improves damage output.

FakeFox

ZeroXFF wrote: »

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

Fake tank = No taunt
Fake Heal = No heal
Fake Dps = No dmg

There is your objective qualification.

A DD who roles out 5k dps is not performing role optimally, but remains a DD, as that is the role they selected and are preforming the objective requirements to fulfill the role (albeit poorly). Like it or not, damage is being done.

A tank without taunt is not performing role at all.

Because tank/healers require different variable to qualify as their role is not a suitable comparative to suggest 5k DPS is fake DD. This is false equivalence, and a clear misrepresentation of the objective/subjective distinction.

To the point of Kicking: why on earth would you kick on a normal, non dlc? If the second DD spams 1k damage hiding in a bush, the dungeon will still get cleared no problem.

1. Nobody talking about fake DDs is talking about normals.
2. If a tank who has literally 0 investment in damage output can do 5k DPS, a DD that is supposedly specced for it should be doing more. If that is not the case, they are fake DDs, as nothing about their build improves damage output.

God damn light attacks already do over 10k, but I guess just pressing a single button is already too much to ask for from some.

LeagueTroll

NupidStoob wrote: »

No point to run pure healer or pure tank if you are going to queue for it. Queuing for DLC is usually a waste of time anyways so you barely ever have a need to be in your full on tank or healer setup. I don't understand how people can do it, it's deliberate selfharm. Just run a half DPS setup and you can still easily do 20k while performing your role well enough.

Best solution is obviously to not even join this madness and go with guildies.

Dude, Self harm is waste 3k to respec cp, 3k respec back every time. On top of the move gear around toons. I spend way less time just kick the 10-15% trash tier dd i get from que.

LeagueTroll

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

Fake tank = No taunt
Fake Heal = No heal
Fake Dps = No dmg

There is your objective qualification.

A DD who roles out 5k dps is not performing role optimally, but remains a DD, as that is the role they selected and are preforming the objective requirements to fulfill the role (albeit poorly). Like it or not, damage is being done.

A tank without taunt is not performing role at all.

Because tank/healers require different variable to qualify as their role is not a suitable comparative to suggest 5k DPS is fake DD. This is false equivalence, and a clear misrepresentation of the objective/subjective distinction.

To the point of Kicking: why on earth would you kick on a normal, non dlc? If the second DD spams 1k damage hiding in a bush, the dungeon will still get cleared no problem.

The taunt skill does dmg. Your expectation on tank has taunt imply tank also must do dmg.
So you standard is: tank must do dmg and taunt, dd must do dmg.
You clearly expected more from the tank. This is not fair.

jaws343

I will say in regards to Fake Tanks and this event in particular, I have only kicked 1. Mainly because this event is about speed and efficiency and there is no point running on Vet unless you need the Helms. Running on Normal is easier with 3 DPS and no tank. or 3 DPS and no healer. It just gets done quicker. I don't break the queue like that, but in most instances for normal dungeons it doesn't really matter.

Now, the 1 instance I have ever kicked a fake tank during this event was last year running Normal Bloodroot. We made it all the way to the last boss with no issues. But even on normal, the last boss will 1 shot a player not blocking. And the fake take continuously attempt to draw aggro and continuously got 1 shot over and over again. So we booted them, got a real tank, and finished it in a few minutes.

But outside of the DLC dungeons, and really only a handful of them, you don't really need a tank if the DPS and the fake tank DPS know what they are doing. All of these can be soloed on normal by a min-maxed DPS anyways. And from the DLC on normal, really only the last 6 dungeons need tanks at some capacity. WGT, CoS, RoM, and ICP, don't need tanks on Normal.

LeagueTroll

jaws343 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Tatanko wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Again, if a dedicated DD is doing the same damage as a dedicated tank he completely failed at his main goal and is indeed a fake DD.

You need to look up the definition of the word "fake". It does not mean "failed" as you seem to think it does -- they are not synonyms. Fraud requires intent, which is something you have no proof of.

You're one of those people that uses the phrase "fake news" all the time, aren't you?

This is going in circles. If a tank who is not taunting the boss is considered a fake tank, a healer who is not healing the group is considered a fake healer why wouldn't a DD who does so little damage that he could be replaced with a second tank without any losses (and with a second healer with a substantial DPS increase) be considered a fake DD?

Nice attempt at personal attack instead of actual arguments, btw.

You are attempting to redefine the work Fake to mean unacceptable.

A fake tank or healer is someone who joins a queue as one of those roles with zero intentions to do those roles. A fake tank is not attempting to tank and a fake healer is not attempting to heal.

A failed tank who joins but is unsuccessful at taunting or blocking, but they are attempting to do the role they signed up for is completely different.

A DPS who queues in as DPS with sword and shield taunting the boss and tanking it, or with a restro staff healing the group is the only way a DPS can be fake.

A DPS who can only do 5K dps is just a bad dps, not a fake one.

Maybe learn to help the bad tanks, healers and dps in easy dungeons so that they get better. Rather than calling them fake and acting like you weren't bad at one point in the game. And I use the word "you" collectively and not to target you personally.

All taunt in this game does dmg, if a tank must taunt to be a real tank, he also must at least do some dmg.
So your standard really is, tank must do dmg, on top of that, must taunt.
And you expect dd just need to do dmg.
That's pretty unfair for tank.

CavalryPK

I don't think people intentionally que as dps with a mindset of leeching. I bet most of the time they just have no idea what it takes. and that is totally find.


I also support an option that have your dps measured at the first boss... so the group knows how much time they have to dedicate to the run... its not like we all have all day to run dungeons. I would like the option to make an informed decision on my time commitment to the run.

for some people (long time players and pvpers) running a dungeon is not an adventure.... it is a chore.

reprosal

Having boss fights last 5 minutes+ on NORMAL with CP800 dps is indeed ‘fake dps’......

Hard casting frags and snipe spammers. Not even dots. Goodness. Go back to dolmen or skyreach grinds.

Galarthor

Why are you guys even discussing this? It's not really relevant since Group Finder does not work anyway!

NocturnalSonata

LeagueTroll wrote: »

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

Fake tank = No taunt
Fake Heal = No heal
Fake Dps = No dmg

There is your objective qualification.

A DD who roles out 5k dps is not performing role optimally, but remains a DD, as that is the role they selected and are preforming the objective requirements to fulfill the role (albeit poorly). Like it or not, damage is being done.

A tank without taunt is not performing role at all.

Because tank/healers require different variable to qualify as their role is not a suitable comparative to suggest 5k DPS is fake DD. This is false equivalence, and a clear misrepresentation of the objective/subjective distinction.

To the point of Kicking: why on earth would you kick on a normal, non dlc? If the second DD spams 1k damage hiding in a bush, the dungeon will still get cleared no problem.

The taunt skill does dmg. Your expectation on tank has taunt imply tank also must do dmg.
So you standard is: tank must do dmg and taunt, dd must do dmg.
You clearly expected more from the tank. This is not fair.

Read my comment carefully please. I was referring to objective/subjective qualifiers so i will copy pasta it again:

"Because tank/healers require different variable to qualify as their role is not a suitable comparative to suggest 5k DPS is fake DD. This is false equivalence, and a clear misrepresentation of the objective/subjective distinction. "

If a tank does 100k damage it makes zero difference to the subjective/objective qualification. It just means they are doing more roles than they are required. Different roles have different variables - no sarcasm or patronizing intended - but this is really basic logic at work.

NocturnalSonata

ZeroXFF wrote: »

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

Fake tank = No taunt
Fake Heal = No heal
Fake Dps = No dmg

There is your objective qualification.

A DD who roles out 5k dps is not performing role optimally, but remains a DD, as that is the role they selected and are preforming the objective requirements to fulfill the role (albeit poorly). Like it or not, damage is being done.

A tank without taunt is not performing role at all.

Because tank/healers require different variable to qualify as their role is not a suitable comparative to suggest 5k DPS is fake DD. This is false equivalence, and a clear misrepresentation of the objective/subjective distinction.

To the point of Kicking: why on earth would you kick on a normal, non dlc? If the second DD spams 1k damage hiding in a bush, the dungeon will still get cleared no problem.

1. Nobody talking about fake DDs is talking about normals.
2. If a tank who has literally 0 investment in damage output can do 5k DPS, a DD that is supposedly specced for it should be doing more. If that is not the case, they are fake DDs, as nothing about their build improves damage output.

5k dps is dps - if a tank does it then it is a bonus, but not what their role mechanic is. Importing your own subjective qualification is irrelevant. Different roles require different variables... very basic logic at work here.

LeagueTroll

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

Fake tank = No taunt
Fake Heal = No heal
Fake Dps = No dmg

There is your objective qualification.

A DD who roles out 5k dps is not performing role optimally, but remains a DD, as that is the role they selected and are preforming the objective requirements to fulfill the role (albeit poorly). Like it or not, damage is being done.

A tank without taunt is not performing role at all.

Because tank/healers require different variable to qualify as their role is not a suitable comparative to suggest 5k DPS is fake DD. This is false equivalence, and a clear misrepresentation of the objective/subjective distinction.

To the point of Kicking: why on earth would you kick on a normal, non dlc? If the second DD spams 1k damage hiding in a bush, the dungeon will still get cleared no problem.

The taunt skill does dmg. Your expectation on tank has taunt imply tank also must do dmg.
So you standard is: tank must do dmg and taunt, dd must do dmg.
You clearly expected more from the tank. This is not fair.

Read my comment carefully please. I was referring to objective/subjective qualifiers so i will copy pasta it again:

"Because tank/healers require different variable to qualify as their role is not a suitable comparative to suggest 5k DPS is fake DD. This is false equivalence, and a clear misrepresentation of the objective/subjective distinction. "

If a tank does 100k damage it makes zero difference to the subjective/objective qualification. It just means they are doing more roles than they are required. Different roles have different variables - no sarcasm or patronizing intended - but this is really basic logic at work.

No, your ‘objective’ standard is totally biased. It inherently requires tank to do dmg.

You expect tank to do dmg and taunt while all dd need to do is output a tiny bit of dmg.

You are giving tanks 1 extra requirement. You are just trying to justify your double standards by saying tanks sighed up for the role.

That’s your definition of role of a tank. This is circular reasoning. You should focus on how to make sure job is distributed fairly.

ZeroXFF

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

Fake tank = No taunt
Fake Heal = No heal
Fake Dps = No dmg

There is your objective qualification.

A DD who roles out 5k dps is not performing role optimally, but remains a DD, as that is the role they selected and are preforming the objective requirements to fulfill the role (albeit poorly). Like it or not, damage is being done.

A tank without taunt is not performing role at all.

Because tank/healers require different variable to qualify as their role is not a suitable comparative to suggest 5k DPS is fake DD. This is false equivalence, and a clear misrepresentation of the objective/subjective distinction.

To the point of Kicking: why on earth would you kick on a normal, non dlc? If the second DD spams 1k damage hiding in a bush, the dungeon will still get cleared no problem.

1. Nobody talking about fake DDs is talking about normals.
2. If a tank who has literally 0 investment in damage output can do 5k DPS, a DD that is supposedly specced for it should be doing more. If that is not the case, they are fake DDs, as nothing about their build improves damage output.

5k dps is dps - if a tank does it then it is a bonus, but not what their role mechanic is. Importing your own subjective qualification is irrelevant. Different roles require different variables... very basic logic at work here.

Yeah, different roles are measured by different variables... 5k DPS is too low to qualify as a DD. You're a fake if your build doesn't have anything in it to support your role, and if you're doing 5k DPS, your build is not made for a DD i.e. you're a fake DD.

Aebaradath

I kick fake tanks and healers in my vet PUGs. I don't have the time to deal with people who desperately want to get into a PUG and expect to get carried. Hell, it's not even hard for a fake tank to slot a taunt but nah, too much of an inconvenience for 'em.

And there's no such thing as a fake DPS. What do you even mean by that? 'Oh, I can pull l33t MLGPR0Xx 50k deeps, so this is the standard for everyone. Anything below that is fake.'

ZeroXFF

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

I kick fake tanks and healers in my vet PUGs. I don't have the time to deal with people who desperately want to get into a PUG and expect to get carried. Hell, it's not even hard for a fake tank to slot a taunt but nah, too much of an inconvenience for 'em.

And there's no such thing as a fake DPS. What do you even mean by that? 'Oh, I can pull l33t MLGPR0Xx 50k deeps, so this is the standard for everyone. Anything below that is fake.'

Anything below what a specced tank or healer does is fake. Nice strawman with the 50k though, we're talking about 5k in case you hadn't noticed. And yeah, you are a fake DD if you do less damage than a tank in 7p heavy with 1hs, 8 sturdy traits and who also only block casts skills and occasionally bashes to interrupt.

Aebaradath

ZeroXFF wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

I kick fake tanks and healers in my vet PUGs. I don't have the time to deal with people who desperately want to get into a PUG and expect to get carried. Hell, it's not even hard for a fake tank to slot a taunt but nah, too much of an inconvenience for 'em.

And there's no such thing as a fake DPS. What do you even mean by that? 'Oh, I can pull l33t MLGPR0Xx 50k deeps, so this is the standard for everyone. Anything below that is fake.'

Anything below what a specced tank or healer does is fake. Nice strawman with the 50k though, we're talking about 5k in case you hadn't noticed. And yeah, you are a fake DD if you do less damage than a tank in 7p heavy with 1hs, 8 sturdy traits and who also only block casts skills and occasionally bashes to interrupt.

I don't care about your personal debate about 5k DPS in the thread. If I was addressing you, I would've quoted you.

Like I did just now.

ZeroXFF

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

I kick fake tanks and healers in my vet PUGs. I don't have the time to deal with people who desperately want to get into a PUG and expect to get carried. Hell, it's not even hard for a fake tank to slot a taunt but nah, too much of an inconvenience for 'em.

And there's no such thing as a fake DPS. What do you even mean by that? 'Oh, I can pull l33t MLGPR0Xx 50k deeps, so this is the standard for everyone. Anything below that is fake.'

Anything below what a specced tank or healer does is fake. Nice strawman with the 50k though, we're talking about 5k in case you hadn't noticed. And yeah, you are a fake DD if you do less damage than a tank in 7p heavy with 1hs, 8 sturdy traits and who also only block casts skills and occasionally bashes to interrupt.

I don't care about your personal debate about 5k DPS in the thread. If I was addressing you, I would've quoted you.

Like I did just now.

Well, quote anyone who said they expect 50k DPS. You're talking to literally nobody in this thread, so you may as well apologize for misrepresenting literally everyone and leave.

Aebaradath

ZeroXFF wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

I kick fake tanks and healers in my vet PUGs. I don't have the time to deal with people who desperately want to get into a PUG and expect to get carried. Hell, it's not even hard for a fake tank to slot a taunt but nah, too much of an inconvenience for 'em.

And there's no such thing as a fake DPS. What do you even mean by that? 'Oh, I can pull l33t MLGPR0Xx 50k deeps, so this is the standard for everyone. Anything below that is fake.'

Anything below what a specced tank or healer does is fake. Nice strawman with the 50k though, we're talking about 5k in case you hadn't noticed. And yeah, you are a fake DD if you do less damage than a tank in 7p heavy with 1hs, 8 sturdy traits and who also only block casts skills and occasionally bashes to interrupt.

I don't care about your personal debate about 5k DPS in the thread. If I was addressing you, I would've quoted you.

Like I did just now.

Well, quote anyone who said they expect 50k DPS. You're talking to literally nobody in this thread, so you may as well apologize for misrepresenting literally everyone and leave.

You haven't seen LeagueTrolls other posts/threads, have you? Get your holier-than-thou attitude out of there.

ZeroXFF

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

I kick fake tanks and healers in my vet PUGs. I don't have the time to deal with people who desperately want to get into a PUG and expect to get carried. Hell, it's not even hard for a fake tank to slot a taunt but nah, too much of an inconvenience for 'em.

And there's no such thing as a fake DPS. What do you even mean by that? 'Oh, I can pull l33t MLGPR0Xx 50k deeps, so this is the standard for everyone. Anything below that is fake.'

Anything below what a specced tank or healer does is fake. Nice strawman with the 50k though, we're talking about 5k in case you hadn't noticed. And yeah, you are a fake DD if you do less damage than a tank in 7p heavy with 1hs, 8 sturdy traits and who also only block casts skills and occasionally bashes to interrupt.

I don't care about your personal debate about 5k DPS in the thread. If I was addressing you, I would've quoted you.

Like I did just now.

Well, quote anyone who said they expect 50k DPS. You're talking to literally nobody in this thread, so you may as well apologize for misrepresenting literally everyone and leave.

You haven't seen LeagueTrolls other posts/threads, have you? Get your holier-than-thou attitude out of there.

You still haven't quoted anything that says anything about 50k, so I'm going to call bull****.

GreenhaloX

O M G..

G1Countdown

I'd only kick if you were serious about completing a difficult dlc dungeon/vet dungeon and they couldn't pull their weight. Most are just ticket/box farming. I would let fake tanks/heals/dps pass for this event as long as the dungeon was going semi-smoothly.

Tsar_Gekkou

I don't care when it comes to normal dungeons, but if it's a vet dlc dungeon and i'm spending more time picking you up off the ground than healing, you're gonna learn what the shape of Italy is.

weedgenius

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

Fake tank = No taunt
Fake Heal = No heal
Fake Dps = No dmg

There is your objective qualification.

Do your "fake dps" literally do ZERO damage? Or are they just bad at it? This is such stupid logic. A fake tank literally does not taunt. A fake healer literally does not heal. A "fake dps" still does damage. Unless they're standing in a corner while you run the entire dungeon?