Looking for 3 DPS and 1 tank for (insert vet dungeon name here)

code65536

Peekachu99 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Domihaus hard mode is a classic DPS race.

@TheGreatBlackBear That's incorrect. It's not a DPS race, at least not until the very end. All of his shouts happen at health percentages (though it is possible to skip some shouts if you push him past the shout threshold while he is in the middle of certain mechanics). The shouts are supposed to happen at 70, 50, 30, and 10% boss health. That's only 4 pillars. There are 8 pillars in non-HM, 6 in HM. So it's possible to get the 2-pillars-remaining achievement in HM without skipping any shouts. (With very high DPS and fortuitous timing, it's possible to skip past shouts and even the shield phase; I've cleared it once with only 2 pillars used--4 pillars remaining--on HM.)

The only burn happens once you hit 10%, at which point shouts happen on a timer. But you should still have two pillars left at that point, and 10% health is basically nothing even with his shield, so this is pretty easy.

So why do groups run out of pillars? Poor positional discipline, plain and simple. If you consistently use more than 1 pillar per shout, then of course you'll run out. If your group is disciplined and stack behind a single pillar for each shout, you can DPS at a leisurely pace and still beat HM.

Domihaus is absolutely a dps race, as even you went into in your explanation. It’s a bit strange you would say it isn’t before launching into a discussion on how it is You can literally make him skip all but two or three shouts if your burn is fast enough. Every fight in this game is a dps race, even the ones like Fang Lair HM, where yes, there are triggers and percentages where mechanics occur, but you can relatively ignore those mechanics just by having enough burn—skeleton giants in this instance can be burned down with one destro ult in less than 5s.

Again, almost every strategy in this game comes down to scorched earth and who can burn who faster.

First, skipping shouts is as much about timing as it is about DPS.

Second, yes, higher DPS makes it easier. But that doesn't make it a DPS race. A DPS race means that you need a certain DPS threshold in order to avoid a wipe. Just because it can go faster with higher DPS (which is every fight in this game) doesn't make it a DPS race. The only race is burning 10% boss health in 2 columns (or 4 columns in non-HM), which is not a DPS race--if you could make it that far in the dungeon, you have enough DPS to make that burn.

Jeremy

code65536 wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Domihaus hard mode is a classic DPS race.

@TheGreatBlackBear That's incorrect. It's not a DPS race, at least not until the very end. All of his shouts happen at health percentages (though it is possible to skip some shouts if you push him past the shout threshold while he is in the middle of certain mechanics). The shouts are supposed to happen at 70, 50, 30, and 10% boss health. That's only 4 pillars. There are 8 pillars in non-HM, 6 in HM. So it's possible to get the 2-pillars-remaining achievement in HM without skipping any shouts. (With very high DPS and fortuitous timing, it's possible to skip past shouts and even the shield phase; I've cleared it once with only 2 pillars used--4 pillars remaining--on HM.)

The only burn happens once you hit 10%, at which point shouts happen on a timer. But you should still have two pillars left at that point, and 10% health is basically nothing even with his shield, so this is pretty easy.

So why do groups run out of pillars? Poor positional discipline, plain and simple. If you consistently use more than 1 pillar per shout, then of course you'll run out. If your group is disciplined and stack behind a single pillar for each shout, you can DPS at a leisurely pace and still beat HM.

Domihaus is absolutely a dps race, as even you went into in your explanation. It’s a bit strange you would say it isn’t before launching into a discussion on how it is You can literally make him skip all but two or three shouts if your burn is fast enough. Every fight in this game is a dps race, even the ones like Fang Lair HM, where yes, there are triggers and percentages where mechanics occur, but you can relatively ignore those mechanics just by having enough burn—skeleton giants in this instance can be burned down with one destro ult in less than 5s.

Again, almost every strategy in this game comes down to scorched earth and who can burn who faster.

First, skipping shouts is as much about timing as it is about DPS.

Second, yes, higher DPS makes it easier. But that doesn't make it a DPS race. A DPS race means that you need a certain DPS threshold in order to avoid a wipe. Just because it can go faster with higher DPS (which is every fight in this game) doesn't make it a DPS race. The only race is burning 10% boss health in 2 columns (or 4 columns in non-HM), which is not a DPS race--if you could make it that far in the dungeon, you have enough DPS to make that burn.

Every time I've done that fight (on Vet) toward the end it seems like you have to focus on the boss and burn him down before the adds overwhelm you. Would you consider that part a DPS race?

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

everything is too easy...we just need to make healers matter more in 4man content and yes by that I mean either increase the attack speed of ALL PvE npcs or increase the damage they deal...idk but at this point in a chapter or two we will be literally running all 4man content with 4 dds.

JimmyJuJu

Tasear wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Since this is the case these days, I have built my healer to be more of a buffer than a healer. Don't get me wrong, my heals are just fine. But I provide many ways to increase the teams resistances, regen, magicka cost reduction, and increased damage dealt.

If my heals aren't always as needed, at least I can buff the crap out of the team to keep up the pace.

^
Pretty much this.
Healing in this game is pretty much like playing a bard. You do a little damage, you do a little healing, but you are mostly there to be a buff bot.

Everyone asking for a bard class, just know you can play as one right now. It's called being a healer, though.

The healer discord opened my eyes to many things. I was suprised how many healers in this game are just fine with this, but I started a healer to actually...heal. I know, I know...it's crazy. But outside of trials and maybe PvP, healers are expected to be bards...buffing/debuffing all things.

Healers in ESO are definitely in a weird place...

Interesting insight

Don't forget the role of synergizer (e.g. talons) - especially now with the new Harmony trait.

If you take on the tasks of healer, secondary DPS, tank support, buffer/debuffer, and synergizer, I feel you can have an overall better gaming experience than DPS alone. It can get busy doing all that at once, but a good healer taking on all those roles can really push the team along and keep the action going.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

El_Borracho wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

If you really want healers to become relevant in ESO, you need to remove most self-healing / survivability options for DPS players while at the same time re-tuning solo content to require less self-healing and survivability. Endgame encounter design needs to shift away from AoE bullet hells and separating the group and towards outgoing unavoidable damage and damaging curses / debuffs.

Not picking nits, but why would anyone want to be a DPS if you have little to no survivability or self-healing? Wouldn't that turn multiple classes into glass cannons? The reason why people don't run certain armor sets in this game is because they are dependent on another person activating a synergy. You would extend that to all damage dealers? I could not imagine running a character whose only way to stay alive in a dungeon, let alone a trial, would be through the ability of another player to keep them alive.

This whole idea that healers are being phased out is severely overblown. The 1 tank/3 DPS setup is entirely situational. As in who the tank and the DPS are and what is the content. When I was a level 300, I needed a healer to get through a lot of dungeons that I can now plow through with a 1 tank/3 DPS crew. Healers are still preferred in a lot of DLC and no death run dungeons.

Similarly, I know of many healers who need to get with competent DPS crews in order to learn how to effectively heal when they get to harder content. Stripping those DPS of self-healing and survivability should go over real well there

*puts on Morpheus shades*

What if I told you that DPS specs have little to no self healing in basically every other MMO, and that the design intent is to absolutely NEED healers in group content?

Other MMOs have done this this because they had enough foresight to realize that, if they gave DPS too much self-healing, the role of healers as a whole would be diminished. You know, like we constantly see in this game.

Of course, another component of this whole issue is that dps kinda need self healing to some extent in this game because trash pulls are so disorganized and you constantly have random mobs hitting you. This is because, shocker, tanks don't have good toolkits to keep threat like in other MMOs. So really, it all just comes down to Zenimax facing the consequences of trying to be different than the tried-and-true concept of the MMO trinity.

I'd still argue that the problem is 70% mechanics and 30% too much self healing though. And as BlackBear points out in the post above, because any player can pick any skill from their class trees / the weapon lines, it's exceedingly difficult to make sure that DPS don't have good self healing without the kinds of buffs / debuffs in group content that many people are proposing.

JimmyJuJu

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

If you really want healers to become relevant in ESO, you need to remove most self-healing / survivability options for DPS players while at the same time re-tuning solo content to require less self-healing and survivability. Endgame encounter design needs to shift away from AoE bullet hells and separating the group and towards outgoing unavoidable damage and damaging curses / debuffs.

Not picking nits, but why would anyone want to be a DPS if you have little to no survivability or self-healing? Wouldn't that turn multiple classes into glass cannons? The reason why people don't run certain armor sets in this game is because they are dependent on another person activating a synergy. You would extend that to all damage dealers? I could not imagine running a character whose only way to stay alive in a dungeon, let alone a trial, would be through the ability of another player to keep them alive.

This whole idea that healers are being phased out is severely overblown. The 1 tank/3 DPS setup is entirely situational. As in who the tank and the DPS are and what is the content. When I was a level 300, I needed a healer to get through a lot of dungeons that I can now plow through with a 1 tank/3 DPS crew. Healers are still preferred in a lot of DLC and no death run dungeons.

Similarly, I know of many healers who need to get with competent DPS crews in order to learn how to effectively heal when they get to harder content. Stripping those DPS of self-healing and survivability should go over real well there

*puts on Morpheus shades*

What if I told you that DPS specs have little to no self healing in basically every other MMO, and that the design intent is to absolutely NEED healers in group content?

Other MMOs have done this this because they had enough foresight to realize that, if they gave DPS too much self-healing, the role of healers as a whole would be diminished. You know, like we constantly see in this game.

Of course, another component of this whole issue is that dps kinda need self healing to some extent in this game because trash pulls are so disorganized and you constantly have random mobs hitting you. This is because, shocker, tanks don't have good toolkits to keep threat like in other MMOs. So really, it all just comes down to Zenimax facing the consequences of trying to be different than the tried-and-true concept of the MMO trinity.

I'd still argue that the problem is 70% mechanics and 30% too much self healing though. And as BlackBear points out in the post above, because any player can pick any skill from their class trees / the weapon lines, it's exceedingly difficult to make sure that DPS don't have good self healing without the kinds of buffs / debuffs in group content that many people are proposing.

Even though ESO is an MMO, it is an Elder Scrolls game, which means lots of solo content. Self-healing is a requirement to get through the content. Unlike Skyrim (where it's open), we are locked into specific classes. Put those two things together and you get self-heals across every class.