Looking for 3 DPS and 1 tank for (insert vet dungeon name here)

Rake · October 2018

3 dps and one tank + OP = 5.
There are no 5 player dungeons.

Tsar_Gekkou · October 2018

Most lower level people wouldn't run 3 dps if most dds weren't terrible. We almost be Vykosa on hard mode with one 55K-60K magblade, a tank, and a healer. We only died because of the execute phase. This game just needs to teach people how to dps properly, but like tanking and healing, a lot of people would just ignore the information and screw around.

visionality · October 2018

I've been doing vet DLC dungeons in both combinations: 1 tank 3 DDs or 1 tank, 2 DDs and 1 healer. As a matter of fact, a good healer will buff the DD's damage so much that the end dps will be the same or a tad higher than with 3 DDs. (Ofc this requires that the healer is also DPSsing between the buffing and healing and refilling of his party's ressources.)

The problem is that many healers are far, far away from good. They stand behind their group, casting a BoL or a mutagen every five to six seconds, followed by a heavy attack if you are very lucky and think that's pretty much all they ever have to do.
It's those healer that are unnecessary in vet dungeons, and no shield-nerf in the world will them ever make desired in a group.

killahsin · October 2018

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Wrong. Every 4 man HM in the game is simply better completed with one sustain tank and 3 DPS—I say this from personal and practical experience completing the achieves, skins and such on two platforms. This will not change in Nerfmire, it will just reinforce the composition since damage is slightly less avoidable, therefore you definitely want to kill them before they kill you. The longer a fight goes on, the greater the margin for error. No amount of healing will save or help you for most of the one-shot mechanics ZoS has introduced, either, so mechanical efficiency and flat out burn to avoid statistical incompetence will always trump 1/1/2 party comps.

Healers have a definite place in Trials and PVP, but they’re worthless in most other content.

People that have this sort of mentality are whats wrong with organized online games. Also yes even I the ultimate of elitists recognize this. Everything you described has nothing to do with healers or ZoS but everything to do with bad players. And yet you still used your own experience as the deciding factor to make these statements?

TheGreatBlackBear · October 2018

Rake wrote: »

3 dps and one tank + OP = 5.
There are no 5 player dungeons.

Um. are you trolling or did you just not read?

My combat prayer will always be more effective in a group with higher DPS. Because math.

Rake · October 2018

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Rake wrote: »

3 dps and one tank + OP = 5.
There are no 5 player dungeons.

Um. are you trolling or did you just not read?

My combat prayer will always be more effective in a group with higher DPS. Because math.

Title is incorrect. If you state you are looking for 3 DD and one Tank for a dungeon, that would either mean

you wanna be their manager or something, since dungeons are capped at 4 players
you made mistake in your title.

Kanar · October 2018

Rake wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Rake wrote: »

3 dps and one tank + OP = 5.
There are no 5 player dungeons.

Um. are you trolling or did you just not read?

My combat prayer will always be more effective in a group with higher DPS. Because math.

Title is incorrect. If you state you are looking for 3 DD and one Tank for a dungeon, that would either mean
you wanna be their manager or something, since dungeons are capped at 4 players

you made mistake in your title.

I thought the same thing when I read the title, "does he want to be a dungeon group manager?"

zaria · October 2018

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Since this is the case these days, I have built my healer to be more of a buffer than a healer. Don't get me wrong, my heals are just fine. But I provide many ways to increase the teams resistances, regen, magicka cost reduction, and increased damage dealt.

If my heals aren't always as needed, at least I can buff the crap out of the team to keep up the pace.

^
Pretty much this.
Healing in this game is pretty much like playing a bard. You do a little damage, you do a little healing, but you are mostly there to be a buff bot.

Everyone asking for a bard class, just know you can play as one right now. It's called being a healer, though.

The healer discord opened my eyes to many things. I was suprised how many healers in this game are just fine with this, but I started a healer to actually...heal. I know, I know...it's crazy. But outside of trials and maybe PvP, healers are expected to be bards...buffing/debuffing all things.

Healers in ESO are definitely in a weird place...

It also doesn't help that lately "healing" sets focus more on buffing allies as opposed to I dunno healing them. The standard bearer for healing sets is Olorime at the moment. And it buffs as its 5 pc bonus. It further solidifies that idea that healers are there to primarily raise DPS. Any random AoE effect procs it blocade, shards. Even endless hail will proc it! (Yes I have an Olorime bow!) So why is this not a "DPS" set? It doesn't even have the plus 2% healing that mending provides. It provides ZERO utility to the wearer in a healing sense.

SPC does the same buff, they changed it to an named buff so healers should not run Olorime+SPC

However you rarely need +to healing you can just heal more, having more magic, spellpower or sustain let you do more damage or support and also heal more.

TheGreatBlackBear · October 2018

I made no mistake. The title refers to the fact that you often see people asking for three dps and a tank for runs. As all the other respondents managed to catch on to.

TheGreatBlackBear · October 2018

zaria wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Since this is the case these days, I have built my healer to be more of a buffer than a healer. Don't get me wrong, my heals are just fine. But I provide many ways to increase the teams resistances, regen, magicka cost reduction, and increased damage dealt.

If my heals aren't always as needed, at least I can buff the crap out of the team to keep up the pace.

^
Pretty much this.
Healing in this game is pretty much like playing a bard. You do a little damage, you do a little healing, but you are mostly there to be a buff bot.

Everyone asking for a bard class, just know you can play as one right now. It's called being a healer, though.

The healer discord opened my eyes to many things. I was suprised how many healers in this game are just fine with this, but I started a healer to actually...heal. I know, I know...it's crazy. But outside of trials and maybe PvP, healers are expected to be bards...buffing/debuffing all things.

Healers in ESO are definitely in a weird place...

It also doesn't help that lately "healing" sets focus more on buffing allies as opposed to I dunno healing them. The standard bearer for healing sets is Olorime at the moment. And it buffs as its 5 pc bonus. It further solidifies that idea that healers are there to primarily raise DPS. Any random AoE effect procs it blocade, shards. Even endless hail will proc it! (Yes I have an Olorime bow!) So why is this not a "DPS" set? It doesn't even have the plus 2% healing that mending provides. It provides ZERO utility to the wearer in a healing sense.

SPC does the same buff, they changed it to an named buff so healers should not run Olorime+SPC
However you rarely need +to healing you can just heal more, having more magic, spellpower or sustain let you do more damage or support and also heal more.

Don't get me started on SPC! I used to waste so much mag trying to keep that up. I had no regrets after I got my Olorime and I deconned it.

zaria · October 2018

eso_nya wrote: »

for the ppl who pass the dps checks, (no matter if w/ or w/o healer) the game will always be to easy.
for the ppl who fail them, the game will appear to be insanely difficult up to impossible to beat.

If they were to remove all mechanics that can be bypassed, it shouldnt be any different for the top tier. it might be insanely boring for the low tier tho. like a normal dungeon where the bosses have 100m+ hp. makes me wonder if more or less ppl would run dlc dungeons.

personally i find systems that punish playing bad but do not reward playing good disgusting.
i also find it disgusting when "learn the mechanics" equals "hit the trainingdummy until u can pull 50k selfbuffed".

Its not many dps checks, its some but they are old and low, other are soft as in killing adds faster than they spawn.
This is only an problem on very potato groups.
Failing nBC2 on Imril because they was not able to kill adds fast enough was probably the most impressive, my below 50 warden healer had 80% of group dps, it was not enough, that fight is not hard in vet,

You have numerous random one shots however, here high dps helps a lot as you are exposed to them for shorter time.
With low dps you have to follow mechanic far more accurate.

JimmyJuJu · October 2018

Here's a riddle for you:

Q: What do you get when you put 3 deeps and 1 tank in a hardmode vet dungeon

A: 3 dead deeps and a 1 angry(-ier) tank

True story.

Splattercat_83 · October 2018

It depends on the group. If I. With some of my harder hitting more experienced players then yes 3 dps and a tank, or even 4 dps. If not then give me a tank and a healer.

JimmyJuJu · October 2018

Splattercat_83 wrote: »

It depends on the group. If I. With some of my harder hitting more experienced players then yes 3 dps and a tank, or even 4 dps. If not then give me a tank and a healer.

There is truth here. I recently ran vVoM with 3 deeps and me on healz (with some deeps). Group DPS was an eye-popping sustained 100k on the Mad Architect (on hardmode). We burned him down so fast he only got one AoE attack (the one with the breaking windows).

Granted vVom is one of the easiest vet dungeons, but I've never been in a group that produced that much sustained dps. From memory, there was a mDK, magsorc, and mNB and a magplar (me). I only needed to supply SPC and combat prayer buffs and ele drain debuff. No other heals required. And we certainly did not need a tank.

So, yeah. It depends on the group. But - some content really does need all roles.

ResTandRespeC · October 2018

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

1 Everything is a "one-shot" (damage so high that it cannot be effectively mitigated, shielded against or healed through)
2 Bosses have a DPS check mechanic and if you fail (by not burning it fast enough) the team will either wipe or face some sort of other unpleasantness.

1 is right but 2 is wrong. Any dps check can be done with 2 decent (30k) DD or even 1 epic DD (50k+). The reason people bring 3 dps (beside everything is 1 shot) is to SKIP mechanic. DPS check mechanic and skip mechanic are 2 different things. For example the 2 (3 in HM) ice adds in vSP is dps check. If you don't kill them fast enough the whole room will freeze and you die. You only need 2 DDs with about 30k to pass this check. But if you have 3 35k+ DDs you can skip all other mechanics in no HM. Zaan beam, fire breath, poison cone from the dragons... skip everything. The boss will just call adds back to back till she die.

It's not about "oh if you need 3 DDs to pass dps check you are not that good yourself." It's about the bigger the number, the more mechanic we can skip and the easier and faster it will be.

You make a good point. However consider this: three 35K dps is 105k right? Just a rough average. That 105 K can be got by two 40K dps and the healer pitching in 25 k dps. That's certainly not impractical. So my reasoning is anything that can be done with three better than average DPS can be done with two good DPS and a healer.

While healers can definitely bring dps up the math just doesn't work out In favor of bringing them instead of a third dps. On average dps by magblades on my team is 53-57k solo and 69-78k on raid parses with 2 healers, 2 tanks and 3 major slayers in the group. So with all these "buffers" were getting around a 20k increase in damage per DD. In a dungeon if you have 1 tank and 1 healer uptimes on the bigger buffs will be a bit less and uptime on any major slayers etc will be a bit less so lets call it a 15k increase per DD in a dungeon scenario. 15k x 2 will equal out an additional 30k while another magblade coming in will at the cert least provide an additional 50k not including the buffs the tank is already applying and buffs the magblade can bring (more slayer uptime). Likewise a lot of the phases your doing damage in are burst phases where an extra DD is going to make even more of a difference.

That being said in most cases i prefer a healer simply because its a more comfortable run and more mistakes can be made. I can do it either way and often times its simply easier to find another dps.

ResTandRespeC · October 2018

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Since this is the case these days, I have built my healer to be more of a buffer than a healer. Don't get me wrong, my heals are just fine. But I provide many ways to increase the teams resistances, regen, magicka cost reduction, and increased damage dealt.

If my heals aren't always as needed, at least I can buff the crap out of the team to keep up the pace.

^
Pretty much this.
Healing in this game is pretty much like playing a bard. You do a little damage, you do a little healing, but you are mostly there to be a buff bot.

Everyone asking for a bard class, just know you can play as one right now. It's called being a healer, though.

The healer discord opened my eyes to many things. I was suprised how many healers in this game are just fine with this, but I started a healer to actually...heal. I know, I know...it's crazy. But outside of trials and maybe PvP, healers are expected to be bards...buffing/debuffing all things.

Healers in ESO are definitely in a weird place...

It also doesn't help that lately "healing" sets focus more on buffing allies as opposed to I dunno healing them. The standard bearer for healing sets is Olorime at the moment. And it buffs as its 5 pc bonus. It further solidifies that idea that healers are there to primarily raise DPS. Any random AoE effect procs it blocade, shards. Even endless hail will proc it! (Yes I have an Olorime bow!) So why is this not a "DPS" set? It doesn't even have the plus 2% healing that mending provides. It provides ZERO utility to the wearer in a healing sense.

We have put a magblade DD in it before lol.

JimmyJuJu · October 2018

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Since this is the case these days, I have built my healer to be more of a buffer than a healer. Don't get me wrong, my heals are just fine. But I provide many ways to increase the teams resistances, regen, magicka cost reduction, and increased damage dealt.

If my heals aren't always as needed, at least I can buff the crap out of the team to keep up the pace.

^
Pretty much this.
Healing in this game is pretty much like playing a bard. You do a little damage, you do a little healing, but you are mostly there to be a buff bot.

Everyone asking for a bard class, just know you can play as one right now. It's called being a healer, though.

The healer discord opened my eyes to many things. I was suprised how many healers in this game are just fine with this, but I started a healer to actually...heal. I know, I know...it's crazy. But outside of trials and maybe PvP, healers are expected to be bards...buffing/debuffing all things.

Healers in ESO are definitely in a weird place...

It also doesn't help that lately "healing" sets focus more on buffing allies as opposed to I dunno healing them. The standard bearer for healing sets is Olorime at the moment. And it buffs as its 5 pc bonus. It further solidifies that idea that healers are there to primarily raise DPS. Any random AoE effect procs it blocade, shards. Even endless hail will proc it! (Yes I have an Olorime bow!) So why is this not a "DPS" set? It doesn't even have the plus 2% healing that mending provides. It provides ZERO utility to the wearer in a healing sense.

We have put a magblade DD in it before lol.

Speaking of Olorime - does SPC now proc the same Major Courage buff? I haven't looked at the tooltip in some time and fextra might not be current. You see where I'm going here

Thanks.

ResTandRespeC · October 2018

El_Borracho wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

My position stands.

I'm burnt out from low DPS apologists. (Not that you're one) You don't need 50K DPS or 780 CP but if you're in a vet DLC dungeon 40K plus per DPS is my minimum expectation if we realistically expect to clear in a timely manner. If not there's any other vet dungeon or normal DLC.

I think we are close to the same position. As a primarily DPS player, I hate low DPS players, too. But I also don't want every dungeon to become a slash-and-burn. Its boring. Just as I would not want the aggravation of making every dungeon a mechanical nightmare. If I want to be frustrated, I'll go to vMOS. Or Fang Lair HM.

Low DPS/Inexperienced/Lower CP players should avoid DLC dungeons, most vet dungeons, or harder content. But, at some point, we were all low DPS players. Only way to get better is to do harder content. Not saying jump into Scalecaller with your CP 330 DD who swings around 15K. Maybe run some COA I, VoM I, or Banished Cells first.

The cool thing with a lot of these new dlc dungeons is that even with 50k+ dds they are still very challenging the first few times a group completes them on HM. The dlcs focus a lot more on mechanics. High dps just helps with A. Getting through it quicker which results in less mechanics and less instances to die and B. High dps players as a bench mark generally have much more experience and therefore are more likely to clear (not always the case).

profundidob16_ESO · October 2018

El_Borracho wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

If you really want healers to become relevant in ESO, you need to remove most self-healing / survivability options for DPS players while at the same time re-tuning solo content to require less self-healing and survivability. Endgame encounter design needs to shift away from AoE bullet hells and separating the group and towards outgoing unavoidable damage and damaging curses / debuffs.

Not picking nits, but why would anyone want to be a DPS if you have little to no survivability or self-healing? Wouldn't that turn multiple classes into glass cannons? The reason why people don't run certain armor sets in this game is because they are dependent on another person activating a synergy. You would extend that to all damage dealers? I could not imagine running a character whose only way to stay alive in a dungeon, let alone a trial, would be through the ability of another player to keep them alive.

This whole idea that healers are being phased out is severely overblown. The 1 tank/3 DPS setup is entirely situational. As in who the tank and the DPS are and what is the content. When I was a level 300, I needed a healer to get through a lot of dungeons that I can now plow through with a 1 tank/3 DPS crew. Healers are still preferred in a lot of DLC and no death run dungeons.

Similarly, I know of many healers who need to get with competent DPS crews in order to learn how to effectively heal when they get to harder content. Stripping those DPS of self-healing and survivability should go over real well there

sorry but you're wrong on all accounts ! That which you can not imagine (being dps without significant selfhealing) has been THE standard in mmo's for far over a decade since the birth of the first mmo's. It's been a solid foundation in mmo base design and a very necessary one or you may as well scratch all healing classes/roles from all games since you effectively killed it. All mmo game designers used to understand and apply this golden rule perfectly all the way back since Everquest I was released in the year 1999. Even all spinoffs later (WOW,Rift, ...) still followed at the very least those solid foundations, even though they were far less strict. ESO is one of the first where under the banner of "play as you want" this has been neglected for the first time in mmo history and we are seeing the consequences of it now...

So you ask "why would anyone wanna dps if you cannot heal ?" The answer is: because you want to do damage per second instead of healing or soaking up and preventing damage to others. 3 distinct basic roles that make up the foundation for all advanced mechanics and skill lines of any mmo.

Why on earth would you insist on being so omnipowerful as to having all 3 basic roles together in 1 char in a Multiplayer Massive Online game where people are supposed to work together to complement each others powers ? Single player RPG's serve that purpose and Elder scrolls alone has 5 different games for you to choose from and go do just that.

The reason you know of healers that are unable to heal harder content is because they never had a need to learn it in the easier content since everyone else can heal themselves. The very fact alone that you know those bad healers is proof of it. In any of the oldschools mmo's it was very simple: from level 1 you had to heal properly or your group dies until they kick you, period ! You could litterarely not become a high level (unlike in ESO) without learning your role properly.

so yes in group content you must rely on a healer to heal you. Educate him or kick him if he's not doing his job, that's what the button is for.

And for anyone thinking to come up with "but what about vma and other solo dungeons..." please keep in mind that all of what I wrote is in the context of group content. If ESO wants to be so revolutionary as to combine existing group content with solo content then they'll also have to come up with proper additional solutions to accomodate it.

Agenericname · October 2018

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

1 Everything is a "one-shot" (damage so high that it cannot be effectively mitigated, shielded against or healed through)
2 Bosses have a DPS check mechanic and if you fail (by not burning it fast enough) the team will either wipe or face some sort of other unpleasantness.

1 is right but 2 is wrong. Any dps check can be done with 2 decent (30k) DD or even 1 epic DD (50k+). The reason people bring 3 dps (beside everything is 1 shot) is to SKIP mechanic. DPS check mechanic and skip mechanic are 2 different things. For example the 2 (3 in HM) ice adds in vSP is dps check. If you don't kill them fast enough the whole room will freeze and you die. You only need 2 DDs with about 30k to pass this check. But if you have 3 35k+ DDs you can skip all other mechanics in no HM. Zaan beam, fire breath, poison cone from the dragons... skip everything. The boss will just call adds back to back till she die.

It's not about "oh if you need 3 DDs to pass dps check you are not that good yourself." It's about the bigger the number, the more mechanic we can skip and the easier and faster it will be.

You make a good point. However consider this: three 35K dps is 105k right? Just a rough average. That 105 K can be got by two 40K dps and the healer pitching in 25 k dps. That's certainly not impractical. So my reasoning is anything that can be done with three better than average DPS can be done with two good DPS and a healer.

While healers can definitely bring dps up the math just doesn't work out In favor of bringing them instead of a third dps. On average dps by magblades on my team is 53-57k solo and 69-78k on raid parses with 2 healers, 2 tanks and 3 major slayers in the group. So with all these "buffers" were getting around a 20k increase in damage per DD. In a dungeon if you have 1 tank and 1 healer uptimes on the bigger buffs will be a bit less and uptime on any major slayers etc will be a bit less so lets call it a 15k increase per DD in a dungeon scenario. 15k x 2 will equal out an additional 30k while another magblade coming in will at the cert least provide an additional 50k not including the buffs the tank is already applying and buffs the magblade can bring (more slayer uptime). Likewise a lot of the phases your doing damage in are burst phases where an extra DD is going to make even more of a difference.

That being said in most cases i prefer a healer simply because its a more comfortable run and more mistakes can be made. I can do it either way and often times its simply easier to find another dps.

To be accurate you would want to calculate 15 x 2 + healer DPS. Then weigh that against the DPS of another DD.

spartaxoxo · October 2018

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

The "no healer needed" controversy is not new and needs no introduction. It's simply the idea that it's better (easier, more valuable, faster) to carry an extra damage dealer to some of the newer dungeons. Many reasons have been touted for doing so, however the ones you'll here most often are
1 Everything is a "one-shot" (damage so high that it cannot be effectively mitigated, shielded against or healed through)
2 Bosses have a DPS check mechanic and if you fail (by not burning it fast enough) the team will either wipe or face some sort of other unpleasantness.

And on the face of it that's sound logic. Why would you want to bring a dedicated healer when healing doesn't save you from death? Just clutch up and learn to avoid death and bring along another self-healing DPS who can do the same and burn the boss before the DPS check. But what if you learn to avoid the one shots? Because more often than not they're telegraphed attacks that happen on a pattern. (Yes we know this is ESO and it's buggy as hell sometimes. I'm looking at you hulking werewolves!) Will you take a healer then? Probably not right? That just leaves the dreaded DPS check. I say this without apology and without prejudice: if you NEED (not want) a third DPS to clear any dungeon that is a strong indicator that one or both of the DPS in that team isn't up to par. Go back to Fungal Grotto 1! I'm joking, please stay, but take a good hard look at yourself. A vet DLC dungeon is the very best the game has to offer; it requires top level stats, sets and skills. Of course two twenty or thirty ish k DPS would struggle. That dungeon isn't for you (yet). If a dungeon needs 120k team DPS to clear the most logical thing (from my point of view) is two good 45K ish DPS with the healer and tank buffing, debuffing and making up the other 30k. Three 30K ish DPS and a tank doing the rest is certainly possible but don't be fooled into thinking that it's faster or META. The healer class (in my view) has been made a scapegoat in certain situations for DPS who simply struggle to function at an elite level. You can of course play however you like as your money went into buying the game. It's just something to consider.

LOL at the idea you need 45k dps to clear a vet dungeon. You don't need more than 25k with the majority of them, and you CAN bring a healer. But why would you when bringing a third one foolproofs the dungeon and adds a tangible difference to its likelihood of completion, while bringing a healer does not.

Survival test = bring a healer
Damage test = bring a dps

Also, this is just elitist nonsense. If you formed a team and cleared the dungeon, the dungeon is for you. The end.

TheGreatBlackBear · October 2018

At this point. I don't care. You do you. Do vet DLC dungeons with 25K DPS split between 3 DPS. Not my run. But don't come on the forums and act like you wouldn't leave if you ended up in fang lair HM for example with 25 k group DPS.

BuddyAces · October 2018

Heck excluding dlc dungeons there's only a few dungeons you even need a tank for now. BC 1 and 2 last boss hits like a truck, coa2 last 2 bosses may be rough, sewers last boss chews through non tanks, other than that the rest can be done with no tank. Dodge roll the one bad attack that each boss does and you're golden. On a stam sorc it's easy as crap. Any other stam toon just needs vigor. Mag toons can shield, side step, and roll dodge that one bad attack.

EvilAutoTech · October 2018

Just for research, if I do become a dungeon group manager, do I get 10% of the spoils?

adeptusminor · October 2018

I always thought a big draw of this game was that classes weren't shoehorned into specific roles. Healers aren't meant to only heal, they can also help dps and buff the group. Some dps classes can offer some off healing. Tanks can add in a little dps and buffs to the group. It sort of seems like the developers are starting to back away from that, and imo it's kind of unfortunate.

adeptusminor · October 2018

I also want to say, and yes I'm aware that this is purely anecdotal, but across 5 guilds that are all mostly 500/500 people, and across many, many discords, I've yet to come across a healer main who has told me they feel unwanted. I really think that that feeling was blown out of proportion.

Do healers have a hard time getting queued for dungeons? (No.) Are healers not needed for trials? (Absolutely no) Just because people are asking for 3 DDs 1 tank doesn't mean that healers aren't wanted or needed. It's just that in efficient groups the 3rd dps generally offers more than a healer would. So now, of course ZoS is removing a lot of the off-healing from magblades, which has been their identity since inception, all because what, a small vocal group of healers say they feel unwanted? It's a shame.

Peekachu99 · October 2018

code65536 wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Domihaus hard mode is a classic DPS race.

@TheGreatBlackBear That's incorrect. It's not a DPS race, at least not until the very end. All of his shouts happen at health percentages (though it is possible to skip some shouts if you push him past the shout threshold while he is in the middle of certain mechanics). The shouts are supposed to happen at 70, 50, 30, and 10% boss health. That's only 4 pillars. There are 8 pillars in non-HM, 6 in HM. So it's possible to get the 2-pillars-remaining achievement in HM without skipping any shouts. (With very high DPS and fortuitous timing, it's possible to skip past shouts and even the shield phase; I've cleared it once with only 2 pillars used--4 pillars remaining--on HM.)

The only burn happens once you hit 10%, at which point shouts happen on a timer. But you should still have two pillars left at that point, and 10% health is basically nothing even with his shield, so this is pretty easy.

So why do groups run out of pillars? Poor positional discipline, plain and simple. If you consistently use more than 1 pillar per shout, then of course you'll run out. If your group is disciplined and stack behind a single pillar for each shout, you can DPS at a leisurely pace and still beat HM.

Domihaus is absolutely a dps race, as even you went into in your explanation. It’s a bit strange you would say it isn’t before launching into a discussion on how it is

You can literally make him skip all but two or three shouts if your burn is fast enough. Every fight in this game is a dps race, even the ones like Fang Lair HM, where yes, there are triggers and percentages where mechanics occur, but you can relatively ignore those mechanics just by having enough burn—skeleton giants in this instance can be burned down with one destro ult in less than 5s.

Again, almost every strategy in this game comes down to scorched earth and who can burn who faster.

adeptusminor · October 2018

Peekachu99 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Domihaus hard mode is a classic DPS race.

@TheGreatBlackBear That's incorrect. It's not a DPS race, at least not until the very end. All of his shouts happen at health percentages (though it is possible to skip some shouts if you push him past the shout threshold while he is in the middle of certain mechanics). The shouts are supposed to happen at 70, 50, 30, and 10% boss health. That's only 4 pillars. There are 8 pillars in non-HM, 6 in HM. So it's possible to get the 2-pillars-remaining achievement in HM without skipping any shouts. (With very high DPS and fortuitous timing, it's possible to skip past shouts and even the shield phase; I've cleared it once with only 2 pillars used--4 pillars remaining--on HM.)

The only burn happens once you hit 10%, at which point shouts happen on a timer. But you should still have two pillars left at that point, and 10% health is basically nothing even with his shield, so this is pretty easy.

So why do groups run out of pillars? Poor positional discipline, plain and simple. If you consistently use more than 1 pillar per shout, then of course you'll run out. If your group is disciplined and stack behind a single pillar for each shout, you can DPS at a leisurely pace and still beat HM.

Domihaus is absolutely a dps race, as even you went into in your explanation. It’s a bit strange you would say it isn’t before launching into a discussion on how it is You can literally make him skip all but two or three shouts if your burn is fast enough. Every fight in this game is a dps race, even the ones like Fang Lair HM, where yes, there are triggers and percentages where mechanics occur, but you can relatively ignore those mechanics just by having enough burn—skeleton giants in this instance can be burned down with one destro ult in less than 5s.

Again, almost every strategy in this game comes down to scorched earth and who can burn who faster.

In this game and in life most people prefer the path of least resistance, so the more DPS the better in a vast majority of cases.

leeux · October 2018

The depressing thing is that this "design problem" is present in the game since at least 2 years, maybe more... and yet, we're here after two """expansions""" and several big patches, some of them where the actual purpose was "combat rebalance", with no solution or correction in view... not even an acknowledgment of the fact that, indeed, the design methods at least need revision...

And no, the shield change is a joke.. something made more to appease whining PvPers than to rebalance PvE group's compositions.

Tasear · October 2018

jabrone77 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Since this is the case these days, I have built my healer to be more of a buffer than a healer. Don't get me wrong, my heals are just fine. But I provide many ways to increase the teams resistances, regen, magicka cost reduction, and increased damage dealt.

If my heals aren't always as needed, at least I can buff the crap out of the team to keep up the pace.

^
Pretty much this.
Healing in this game is pretty much like playing a bard. You do a little damage, you do a little healing, but you are mostly there to be a buff bot.

Everyone asking for a bard class, just know you can play as one right now. It's called being a healer, though.

The healer discord opened my eyes to many things. I was suprised how many healers in this game are just fine with this, but I started a healer to actually...heal. I know, I know...it's crazy. But outside of trials and maybe PvP, healers are expected to be bards...buffing/debuffing all things.

Healers in ESO are definitely in a weird place...

Interesting insight