Jewelry crafting: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

stitchesofdooom

maboleth wrote: »

^ Yes, it's newer, not everyone has it (only Summerset buyers as far as I know) and it's not something that's mandatory. Like the quality gain between purple>gold is negligible.

Weapon has the cheapest gold mats but also is the most important (metal weapons are kind of in the middle because both armour and weapons are using the same temper). Then comes armour, still good to be gold due to higher armour values, higher trait percentage and few bit of stats change. In jewelry however, it's mostly color. The change in stats and especially traits is very low. And gold enchantments fit purple jewelry in its full potential, without any penalties.

However, master jewelry writs are being useless as of now, because no amount of vouchers can pay the amount of gold and/or resources needed for legendary quality.

yep, I'm a Grand Master Crafter and I still can't get the damn materials to do even 10% of these bar-stuard JC MW

kirgeo

Use it only for traits, have 6 gold grains after all the grind. Needs to change.

stitchesofdooom

kirgeo wrote: »

Use it only for traits, have 6 gold grains after all the grind. Needs to change.

yeah, I'm so tired of the lack of grains. I'm not a fan of PvP so I won't have the means to buy a load of gold jewelry pieces and farming gets old REAL fast

Skwor

Gimmie gimmie gimmie.
Gold jewelry is and should be very rare. As it is jewelry crafting makes it to easy and available, they need to go back to 8 plates for an upgrade and not increase raw availability any more.

stitchesofdooom

Skwor wrote: »

Gimmie gimmie gimmie.
Gold jewelry is and should be very rare. As it is jewelry crafting makes it to easy and available, they need to go back to 8 plates for an upgrade and not increase raw availability any more.

so you can make a killing off of grains again?

Feanor

Skwor wrote: »

Gimmie gimmie gimmie.
Gold jewelry is and should be very rare. As it is jewelry crafting makes it to easy and available, they need to go back to 8 plates for an upgrade and not increase raw availability any more.

That doesn’t explain why Epic needs to be so prohibitive. As it is a large portion of the players simply won’t bother at all.

Lifsteinn

They added Jewelcrafting, but they don't want you to use it.

tmbrinks

Feanor wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Gimmie gimmie gimmie.
Gold jewelry is and should be very rare. As it is jewelry crafting makes it to easy and available, they need to go back to 8 plates for an upgrade and not increase raw availability any more.

That doesn’t explain why Epic needs to be so prohibitive. As it is a large portion of the players simply won’t bother at all.

I get enough Zircon grains in a week of doing Jewelry writs, collecting the surveys that drop, and then refining the dust, to upgrade about 1 ring a week to purple (If I'm short, I could sell the other materials I get for enough gold to buy the missing Zircon). Not sure that's "prohibitive". Purple jewelry also drops from a multitude of places to either use in your build, or to decon for the materials.

tmbrinks

Lifsteinn wrote: »

They added Jewelcrafting, but they don't want you to use it.

I use it all the time. Just not to upgrade jewelry (for most builds, it drops in gold somewhere). Its main use is to transmute jewelry to better/alternate traits. And if you're going to complain "we could only research one at a time" remember, you had only 2 types to research with that one at a time... compared to 14 lines with 3 slots on WW/BS. I may only be a math teacher... but 1/2 is much better than 3/14 in terms of time...

Feanor

tmbrinks wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Gimmie gimmie gimmie.
Gold jewelry is and should be very rare. As it is jewelry crafting makes it to easy and available, they need to go back to 8 plates for an upgrade and not increase raw availability any more.

That doesn’t explain why Epic needs to be so prohibitive. As it is a large portion of the players simply won’t bother at all.

I get enough Zircon grains in a week of doing Jewelry writs, collecting the surveys that drop, and then refining the dust, to upgrade about 1 ring a week to purple (If I'm short, I could sell the other materials I get for enough gold to buy the missing Zircon). Not sure that's "prohibitive". Purple jewelry also drops from a multitude of places to either use in your build, or to decon for the materials.

That’s my point though. Given how easy it is to farm dropped jewelry in purple, jewelry crafting really stands out. Make Golding stuff out hard, yes. But the rest? It just isn’t cohesive with the rest of crafting or obtaining gear.

tmbrinks

Feanor wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Gimmie gimmie gimmie.
Gold jewelry is and should be very rare. As it is jewelry crafting makes it to easy and available, they need to go back to 8 plates for an upgrade and not increase raw availability any more.

That doesn’t explain why Epic needs to be so prohibitive. As it is a large portion of the players simply won’t bother at all.

I get enough Zircon grains in a week of doing Jewelry writs, collecting the surveys that drop, and then refining the dust, to upgrade about 1 ring a week to purple (If I'm short, I could sell the other materials I get for enough gold to buy the missing Zircon). Not sure that's "prohibitive". Purple jewelry also drops from a multitude of places to either use in your build, or to decon for the materials.

That’s my point though. Given how easy it is to farm dropped jewelry in purple, jewelry crafting really stands out. Make Golding stuff out hard, yes. But the rest? It just isn’t cohesive with the rest of crafting or obtaining gear.

I actually run out of purple BS/WW/Cloth mats before I run out of gold mats from doing master writs, furniture making, etc... so, I personally see them being pretty similar.

John_Falstaff

tmbrinks wrote: »

I actually run out of purple BS/WW/Cloth mats before I run out of gold mats from doing master writs, furniture making, etc... so, I personally see them being pretty similar.

I think @Feanor might be talking about the purple JC platings, not gold. With them, the situation is, oddly, reverse - it's pretty easy to farm Ebon ring or BSW necklace by going into vet dungeon, but upgrading jewelry to purple is daunting. Want that Alkosh jewelry set or purple crafted one? Oops, have to deconstruct ~20 purple pieces, 60 per full set. And the grind for them is slow, more so that writs don't give purple grains.

Feanor

John_Falstaff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I actually run out of purple BS/WW/Cloth mats before I run out of gold mats from doing master writs, furniture making, etc... so, I personally see them being pretty similar.

I think @Feanor might be talking about the purple JC platings, not gold. With them, the situation is, oddly, reverse - it's pretty easy to farm Ebon ring or BSW necklace by going into vet dungeon, but upgrading jewelry to purple is daunting. Want that Alkosh jewelry set or purple crafted one? Oops, have to deconstruct ~20 purple pieces, 60 per full set. And the grind for them is slow, more so that writs don't give purple grains.

Exactly.

tmbrinks

Feanor wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I actually run out of purple BS/WW/Cloth mats before I run out of gold mats from doing master writs, furniture making, etc... so, I personally see them being pretty similar.

I think @Feanor might be talking about the purple JC platings, not gold. With them, the situation is, oddly, reverse - it's pretty easy to farm Ebon ring or BSW necklace by going into vet dungeon, but upgrading jewelry to purple is daunting. Want that Alkosh jewelry set or purple crafted one? Oops, have to deconstruct ~20 purple pieces, 60 per full set. And the grind for them is slow, more so that writs don't give purple grains.

Exactly.

My counter point would be that a vast majority of the jewelry sets that you would use are directly available in purple (or even gold) quality (Alkosh, MA, Olorime, SPC, Mending, VO, Ebon, etc...) Very few builds use crafted sets (Torug's/Fortified Brass/Shacklebreaker being notable exceptions) and if they are, are usually paired with a dropped set.

Thus, somebody who wants purple (or gold) jewelry, but doesn't have the means to get it from drops (can't do vMoL for Alkosh in purple/gold, for example), has an alternative (gold expensive) route to be able to get those drops (run nMoL for the jewelry and upgrade)

JC provides an additional way to acquire those in the quality desired, or to potentially pair two crafted sets together for the first time. It only gave us more options in our builds, so the fact that it is expensive, time consuming, and difficult to do doesn't mean it's bad. Before, it was impossible to do... now it's difficult.

I would also be all for JC writs to drop green, blue, and purple grains as well.

(Now, JC master writs, those are a joke because of their expense)

stitchesofdooom

Skwor wrote: »

Gimmie gimmie gimmie.
Gold jewelry is and should be very rare. As it is jewelry crafting makes it to easy and available, they need to go back to 8 plates for an upgrade and not increase raw availability any more.

so you can make a killing off of grains again?

tmbrinks wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I actually run out of purple BS/WW/Cloth mats before I run out of gold mats from doing master writs, furniture making, etc... so, I personally see them being pretty similar.

I think @Feanor might be talking about the purple JC platings, not gold. With them, the situation is, oddly, reverse - it's pretty easy to farm Ebon ring or BSW necklace by going into vet dungeon, but upgrading jewelry to purple is daunting. Want that Alkosh jewelry set or purple crafted one? Oops, have to deconstruct ~20 purple pieces, 60 per full set. And the grind for them is slow, more so that writs don't give purple grains.

Exactly.

My counter point would be that a vast majority of the jewelry sets that you would use are directly available in purple (or even gold) quality (Alkosh, MA, Olorime, SPC, Mending, VO, Ebon, etc...) Very few builds use crafted sets (Torug's/Fortified Brass/Shacklebreaker being notable exceptions) and if they are, are usually paired with a dropped set.

Thus, somebody who wants purple (or gold) jewelry, but doesn't have the means to get it from drops (can't do vMoL for Alkosh in purple/gold, for example), has an alternative (gold expensive) route to be able to get those drops (run nMoL for the jewelry and upgrade)

JC provides an additional way to acquire those in the quality desired, or to potentially pair two crafted sets together for the first time. It only gave us more options in our builds, so the fact that it is expensive, time consuming, and difficult to do doesn't mean it's bad. Before, it was impossible to do... now it's difficult.

I would also be all for JC writs to drop green, blue, and purple grains as well.

(Now, JC master writs, those are a joke because of their expense)

but with the flood of JC master writs and the reduced number of decent other skill master writs, gathering writ vouchers has become much harder. Especially the legendary jc mw. If you came for the elder scrolls and not the PvP then you're pretty screwed unless you wanna spend the whole day farming

VanyelMohr

Just adding my voice to the call for either a reduction in the number of master jc writs we receive or an increase in the amount of platings we are able to gain from extraction. It's easy enough to delete them, I suppose, but I have no problem getting the resources for all the other craft writs and it just feels like a waste to get so many and not be able to anything with them. Just tonight, I received a jc master writ on *both* of my characters. I have at least 30 writs in my bank. I've only been able to craft maybe 4 legendary rings since Summerset launched. That's just... sad.

tmbrinks

stitchesofdooom wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Gimmie gimmie gimmie.
Gold jewelry is and should be very rare. As it is jewelry crafting makes it to easy and available, they need to go back to 8 plates for an upgrade and not increase raw availability any more.

so you can make a killing off of grains again?

tmbrinks wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I actually run out of purple BS/WW/Cloth mats before I run out of gold mats from doing master writs, furniture making, etc... so, I personally see them being pretty similar.

I think @Feanor might be talking about the purple JC platings, not gold. With them, the situation is, oddly, reverse - it's pretty easy to farm Ebon ring or BSW necklace by going into vet dungeon, but upgrading jewelry to purple is daunting. Want that Alkosh jewelry set or purple crafted one? Oops, have to deconstruct ~20 purple pieces, 60 per full set. And the grind for them is slow, more so that writs don't give purple grains.

Exactly.

My counter point would be that a vast majority of the jewelry sets that you would use are directly available in purple (or even gold) quality (Alkosh, MA, Olorime, SPC, Mending, VO, Ebon, etc...) Very few builds use crafted sets (Torug's/Fortified Brass/Shacklebreaker being notable exceptions) and if they are, are usually paired with a dropped set.

Thus, somebody who wants purple (or gold) jewelry, but doesn't have the means to get it from drops (can't do vMoL for Alkosh in purple/gold, for example), has an alternative (gold expensive) route to be able to get those drops (run nMoL for the jewelry and upgrade)

JC provides an additional way to acquire those in the quality desired, or to potentially pair two crafted sets together for the first time. It only gave us more options in our builds, so the fact that it is expensive, time consuming, and difficult to do doesn't mean it's bad. Before, it was impossible to do... now it's difficult.

I would also be all for JC writs to drop green, blue, and purple grains as well.

(Now, JC master writs, those are a joke because of their expense)

but with the flood of JC master writs and the reduced number of decent other skill master writs, gathering writ vouchers has become much harder. Especially the legendary jc mw. If you came for the elder scrolls and not the PvP then you're pretty screwed unless you wanna spend the whole day farming

I don't really get where I was talking about master writs (other than in reference to the one thing that I believe needs to change with JC, which are overpriced per voucher)... JC provided us with an alternative way to get things that were either difficult to get (running vet trials) or impossible to get (crafted gear)... so, in my opinion, anything with the JC is better than what we had. We also got a host of new traits that made builds even stronger.

There are still exactly ZERO end-game PVE builds (to get top DPS/Heals/Tanking) that rely on you crafting 2 sets... PVP might be an exception as there are a few builds that use 2 crafted. Point being, JC is not a need, it merely gives us an alternative route to obtain something that wasn't there. Hence, I don't understand all the strife surrounding it. Yes, it takes work and time and gold to be able to upgrade something. It also takes work and time and gold to progress through a trial so you can get your gold gear drops. Or it take work and time and gold to do PvP so you can buy your gold jewelry at the golden. We just now have 3 ways to get it, instead of 2. When I think of QoL improvements, that fits my bill.

Katahdin

I've definitely seen a drop in the number of non JC writs. Those non JC writs, ones that give more than 5-7 voucher have become less common as well.

It sucks. I hate JC master writs. I have not done one since we got jewlery crafting snd I've upgraded a handful of jewlery pieces

richo262

They should remove the grains for all the tempers except for Chromium. I don't mind Chrome being difficult, it is meant to be difficult, and the difference between Purp / Gold isn't game breaking.

The drop rate on the tempers have to be low given how many tempers are required, I believe it is about half the tempers required for normal armor / weapon pieces.

As for trait items. I think most trait items in the game can simply be scrapped.

All Armor / Weapon trait items except for Nirn could be done away with.
Keep all Jewelry trait items except for Arcane, Robust, Magicka.
However, Protective, Infused, Harmony could probably drop with the 'requires 10' garbage, and drop 10 time less.

When I say done away with, I mean, the trait item is not required to craft the item. It should be considered a 'basic trait' that once researched, you make it without requiring the trait item.

Oberstein

Jewelry crafting seems fine enough.

Panomania

Oberstein wrote: »

Jewelry crafting seems fine enough.

Not sure what you mean by that. Crafting jewelry is fine, if a bit costly....but I understand that. As far as master writs go? Either you dont do them or math isnt your strong suit. ZERO masters writs are worth doing, even MONTHS after ZOS last "fix".

Look, prices for upgrade mats have stabilized where they will stay, in general. They WONT be going down unless ZOS changes how they are acquired, which I HIGHLY doubt will happen. The issue I have with JC are masters: cost per voucher is BARE MINIMUM at least double the cost of the next most expensive master to craft (wood at the moment). Right now vouchers are worth 700ish gold per TOPS, based on selling voucher purchased items for gold. You simply dont see vouchers at 1K per anymore, nor will you barring brief periods of buying flurry to get new craft tables as they release....but even then the last time we had new tables (Summerset) you didnt see vouchers hit 900 gold per on PC NA server.

Now....JC masters have a craft cost of anywhere near just over 1K per to 3500 per voucher. How does ZOS NOT get that this is a problem?? Do they not pay attention to the game? I already know they pretty much ignore posts here, from a dev standpoint....they only examine them to police chat.

JC masters STILL arent worth doing. At all. JC Masters wont EVER be worth doing unless ZOS changes either how upgrade mats are acquired in a profound way, or unless they AT LEAST double writ rewards again.Hell, I'd settle for the ability to sell the damned things to vendors for a few gold just to get rid of em easier....its almost insulting to first get a masters worth 300+ vouchers then have to actually type DESTROY to get rid of it. Depressing AND insulting!

Why the hell cant these guys get this right, almost a year later?

kind_hero

tmbrinks wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Gimmie gimmie gimmie.
Gold jewelry is and should be very rare. As it is jewelry crafting makes it to easy and available, they need to go back to 8 plates for an upgrade and not increase raw availability any more.

That doesn’t explain why Epic needs to be so prohibitive. As it is a large portion of the players simply won’t bother at all.

I get enough Zircon grains in a week of doing Jewelry writs, collecting the surveys that drop, and then refining the dust, to upgrade about 1 ring a week to purple (If I'm short, I could sell the other materials I get for enough gold to buy the missing Zircon). Not sure that's "prohibitive". Purple jewelry also drops from a multitude of places to either use in your build, or to decon for the materials.

For the amount of chars you have it is no wonder you get enough grains, but this makes even more the point of how grindy this craft is. I do the JC daily on 2 chars (sometimes 3) and it takes weeks to gather enough zircon. When I decon stuff, I rarely get a zircon grain. Zircon should not be that hard to get... at least add a vendor with grains or platings for AP or vouchers, but my opinion is that you should get grains (rarely) by harvesting nodes.

The jc writs are still a joke. Maybe they would work as they are for blue quality JC, which is easier to make, but the epic is poorly rewarded. They should give you 300+ vouchers for an epic jc

satanio

I think they'll do the same with JWC (Summerset) as they did with BGs (Morrowind). It will become part of base game and make it viable for wider audience.

Mupo

If they reduced the grains to plating from 10 grains to 1 plate down to 5 grains to 1 plating that'd be actually doable. By now that'd still mean I've wasted many grains while in an OCD fueled refinement kick, It would give me an incentive to do at least a couple of those Master Jewelry Writs!

tmbrinks

Panomania wrote: »

Oberstein wrote: »

Jewelry crafting seems fine enough.

Not sure what you mean by that. Crafting jewelry is fine, if a bit costly....but I understand that. As far as master writs go? Either you dont do them or math isnt your strong suit. ZERO masters writs are worth doing, even MONTHS after ZOS last "fix".

Look, prices for upgrade mats have stabilized where they will stay, in general. They WONT be going down unless ZOS changes how they are acquired, which I HIGHLY doubt will happen. The issue I have with JC are masters: cost per voucher is BARE MINIMUM at least double the cost of the next most expensive master to craft (wood at the moment). Right now vouchers are worth 700ish gold per TOPS, based on selling voucher purchased items for gold. You simply dont see vouchers at 1K per anymore, nor will you barring brief periods of buying flurry to get new craft tables as they release....but even then the last time we had new tables (Summerset) you didnt see vouchers hit 900 gold per on PC NA server.

Now....JC masters have a craft cost of anywhere near just over 1K per to 3500 per voucher. How does ZOS NOT get that this is a problem?? Do they not pay attention to the game? I already know they pretty much ignore posts here, from a dev standpoint....they only examine them to police chat.

JC masters STILL arent worth doing. At all. JC Masters wont EVER be worth doing unless ZOS changes either how upgrade mats are acquired in a profound way, or unless they AT LEAST double writ rewards again.Hell, I'd settle for the ability to sell the damned things to vendors for a few gold just to get rid of em easier....its almost insulting to first get a masters worth 300+ vouchers then have to actually type DESTROY to get rid of it. Depressing AND insulting!

Why the hell cant these guys get this right, almost a year later?

I agree, JC MASTER writs are out of line. An increase to the number of vouchers given would do them well. The rest of JC, I believe is good. (Although, I will say, on PC/NA a 461 voucher legendary, rare-trait, TBS ring had a per-voucher cost of 823 gold last time I checked the one I'm saving, so it's getting there) Adding in the 7% loss you have when you sell items in guild traders, which MM prices are based off of, and it comes down in the 700's for an "effective" cost, if you farm the materials yourself. Still not great, but plausible. That being said, it shouldn't just be the highest voucher ones that are the most viable to do.

The tragic ones are the ones that call for Arcane/Robust/Healthy, those should be boosted by at least 150%, and the top end ones by about 50%. They need to change the "curve" of voucher rewards for them across the board, but the top end ones are not as bad as the bad bottom ones. I don't know if any of this makes sense... it's early, and I'm still working on my coffee

Nave_Horsespitoon

What disturbs me is that making jewelry irl is not very hard. The game makes it seem like it is some kind of super skill that takes a lifetime to master. Which is entirely wrong. Also why platings? Usually a plated piece of jewelry is worthless junk! Rings are solid gold (white, yellow, and rose (14,18,24 k )), and solid platinum, palladium, silver. Then the addition of jewels makes them more rare and expensive. I’m just saying that if they followed a bit of exsisting jewelry reality it would be more fun. I mean then we would produce gems from our mining and real metals that produce actual jewelry not pewter plated with garbage metal. If they want guidance in how rare each of these real metals and jewels are they can just look up the actual occurrences to get an idea of how they need to adjust it for the game. Just saying, making a plated band like they show is beginners stuff and platings (not rare) are just as simple. Anyway that is my two bits

Steelshiv

As it stands now I need to wait about a month to passively obtain all of the materials needed to complete one jewlery crafting writ. While this would not be difficult or a problem on its own, I have other toons that I need to craft and improve jewlery for. Due to the rarity of the platings in guild stores, a single chromium plating costs 75k gold.

To complete a jewlery crafting writ one would need four chromium platings to safely craft a single item of legendary quality the cost of which (300k gold) exceeds almost twice over the price of the item I would be doing the master writ to obtain.

A possible fix for this would be to lower the amount of platings needed for a guaranteed successful improvement by half. This fix would make it feasible to do the jewlery crafting writs.

tmbrinks

Steelshiv wrote: »

As it stands now I need to wait about a month to passively obtain all of the materials needed to complete one jewlery crafting writ. While this would not be difficult or a problem on its own, I have other toons that I need to craft and improve jewlery for. Due to the rarity of the platings in guild stores, a single chromium plating costs 75k gold.

To complete a jewlery crafting writ one would need four chromium platings to safely craft a single item of legendary quality the cost of which (300k gold) exceeds almost twice over the price of the item I would be doing the master writ to obtain.

A possible fix for this would be to lower the amount of platings needed for a guaranteed successful improvement by half. This fix would make it feasible to do the jewlery crafting writs.

Lowering the cost of making any jewelry that much would remove the appeal of the Golden Vendor as an AP sink for PvP players. Without that sink, there would be no real way for PvP players to make gold from their AP, forcing them to do PvE content to get materials/potions/etc...

Since Master Jewelry Crafting Writs are the only thing that are out of line, an increase in the vouchers that they give is the viable solution, since it would not drastically affect other aspects of the economy.

Regular Jewelry Crafting writs are good
Jewelry Crafting is at a good price (just barely more than golden. You want it now? upgrade for 300k. You want to wait... buy it for 150k/250k IF it shows up at golden)

tmbrinks

In fact the regular Jewelry Crafting writs are the best value. Platinum Ingots are super cheap (9g a piece on PC/NA) you need less of them than for Wood/Cloth/Blacksmithing. And the materials (dusts) from refining mean that the surveys are very, very valuable (about 1 grain per stack, you get between 120-160 per survey), so they're worth like 6k a piece, WAY more than any of the other crafts. (Alchemy aside, those are worth a lot with the right survey... I got 32 corn flower from one the other day)

The master writs you get are a nuisance, but destroying is just a hassle typing "DESTROY", you're not losing anything.

kirgeo

There is nothing that says jewelry has to be super rare in a game. ZOS is making it so. They should just remove the grain or platings(feels like adding minute grains to jewelry to improve them sounds more logical than plates to it imo). Reduce the AP cost of gold jewelry while they are at it. PvP and trial groups will still run them for specific set and achievements. I don't think vet raiders do trials just for the jewelry. I hear they used to trash gold pieces them before JC was introduced now they deconstruct them. The market will be messed up for a while but it will stabilize.