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Jewelry crafting: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

  • DaveMoeDee
    DaveMoeDee
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    they need to give us JC MW at a level that matches our ability to do them, or fix the platings
    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Malborn66 wrote: »
    Zircon production seems to be set at the same level as Chromium.

    Chromium grains now turning up on Writs and Blacksmith Resource drops, Zircon is not.

    This actually (whether intentionally or not) makes Zircon rarer than Chromium which bottlenecks the whole upgrade process.

    Another example of ZOS messing up Jewellers!

    Isn't less zircon needed when upgrading than chromium, like all the other gear crafts? Plus, so much of our jewelry is already purple drops.
    ...
    give us a hireling, give us a 2nd research slot, get rid of the grains system and just give platings like the other crafting skills.

    Second research slot definitely not needed. There are only 2 categories of jewelry to research. Even woodworking has 3x as many. I would love to see a hireling.

    you might get a lot of purple jewelry. Not all of us have that experience

    Honestly, if you're not doing activities that drop purple jewelry (vet dungeons, vet trials, etc). You have no need for gold jewelry.

    I was thinking something similar. I suppose there could be PvP players who want to quickly farm a set so they grind normal dungeons one evening. Most gear I get is all purple from pledges/random vet dungeons.
  • WolfStar07
    WolfStar07
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    Grimm13 wrote: »
    Noticed that I can not decon Infused rings I gather from Psijic Nodes. Is this just me or is it all? We should be able to decon those if we choose. If it now drops in game, it should be able to be decon.

    You need to double check that ring. Exemplary [any trait] jewelry are for research only, and is explicitly stated on the tooltip.
  • CleymenZero
    CleymenZero
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    Although I agree that it is extremely tedious to gather plantings, I believe zos is trying to avoid destroying the purpose of the Golden and the economy that revolves around it.

    I won't go into details but it is a fickle thing this MMO economy.
  • Iselin
    Iselin
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    Although I agree that it is extremely tedious to gather plantings, I believe zos is trying to avoid destroying the purpose of the Golden and the economy that revolves around it.

    I won't go into details but it is a fickle thing this MMO economy.

    Yeah well if that's the purpose they could have accomplished that much easier without this 10 grain > 1 plating thing by just upping the requirement to take jewelry from purple to gold and leaving the white > green, green > blue and blue > purple upgrades alone.

    Or do you have a theory that messing up those lower quality crafting steps also serves some useful purpose other than "moar grind please"?
  • ATomiX96
    ATomiX96
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    95% of the playerbase casuals pre summerset -> introduce new crafting system 10 times more grindy than any previous
    200IQ Move by ZOS
    PC-EU 1k+ CP
    Ghosts and Goblins
    Sexy Squad
    World 3rd Immortal Redeemer (Feb. 2018)
    vHoF 35/36 (208k Dragon Bones Patch)
    Stopped playing ESO as my main game since Dragon Bones, glad that other great games exist :>
    Keep spending money on crown crates if you think its gonna make the gameplay better :^)
  • Bc_bmx
    Bc_bmx
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    How would y'all feel about the amount of master writs dropping to fall to the same drop rate as the soul shriven skin used to from imperial city, yet pay like 1200 vouchers minimum... They would be "special" then and not so common/over costly to do.
  • stitchesofdooom
    stitchesofdooom
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    yep: MORE PLATINGS please
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Grimm13 wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Grimm13 wrote: »
    While it is not the best solution it would be an improvement if...
    • Jewelry Decon - give back a plating instead of grain.
    • Allow Decon of all Jewelry dropped now in game.
    • add a Jewelry Hiring

    Even just the decon change would be a vast improvement. Yes it keeps the grains from gathering but decon of purple and lower, which is the most comely found items, would be a way to improve those levels of crafted items. With getting a grain back I don't want to buy pieces to decon, but would reconsider if I got back plating's.

    Noticed that I can not decon Infused rings I gather from Psijic Nodes. Is this just me or is it all? We should be able to decon those if we choose. If it now drops in game, it should be able to be decon.

    Keeping the grain system then a Hireling should be added to give us a small increase in grains and materials. I would expect to see ZOS have the gold grains as very rare and maybe even limited to only from refining the materials.

    just changing the decon would be a 10x reduction in platings... that would an utterly absurd amount of change. If they removed the grains, but reduced drop rates by 50% AND increased the costs back up to 2-3-4-8 (like all other crafts) THEN it would be OK.

    Decon of old jewelry would be fine (that was in so people didn't farm/hoard jewelry right before introduction)

    Jewelry Hireling would be nice. Would have to get a few more skill points on a couple of characters though.

    you read that wrong, it is currently that you get one grain from decon of Jewelry which is absurd. I am saying they need to give a plate instead which equals 10 grains to bring the green, blue and purple upgrade mats more in line.

    I was not talking about old Jewelry either. I am talking about the current infused trait items you get from Psijic Nodes. Any Jewelry generated in the game now needs to be decon capable, we are past the release of the system that stated that items prior to would not be decon and going forward it would be decon capable. But not all are it seems, which is wrong IMHO.

    I apologize, I misstated with it. changing from grains on decon to platings would be a 10-fold increase in materials. (it was earlier in the day and I don't think I had my coffee yet, or it hadn't kicked in.. lol) The rest of my statement was in line with my thoughts though. If you went that route. 50% reduction in drop rate, back to the old 2-3-4-8 for amount needed, making it identical to the other crafts.

    and sure... being able to decon everything... fine.

    I dunno, I wouldn't reduce the drop rate if the improvement cost was increaced. I have basically *** all jewelry platings and 10 times *** all would be barely enough as is. Jewelry to decon is hardly plentiful.

    The combination of the two ideas of mine would result in 2.5x as many gold platings, But it would result in effectively a 3.75x increase in zircon platings, due to their increase only being from 3 platings to 4 platings.

    Any more than that would make jewelry crafting extremely cheap (which ZoS has EXPLICITLY stated they do not want, they wanted it more expensive)

    yeah but most of us don't want it more exclusive
    Say NO to Crown Crates. Crown Crates are Loot Boxes. Loot Boxes are gambling. Zenimax makes enough money off us.
    ESO+ is part of the "Games as a service" trend. A trend that needs to die. Subscribe only when you need Crowns for DLC.
    Say no to "radiant" junk quests replacing proper side content and the dumbing down of our favorite franchises.
    PCMR EU.
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    yep: MORE PLATINGS please
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Grimm13 wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Grimm13 wrote: »
    While it is not the best solution it would be an improvement if...
    • Jewelry Decon - give back a plating instead of grain.
    • Allow Decon of all Jewelry dropped now in game.
    • add a Jewelry Hiring

    Even just the decon change would be a vast improvement. Yes it keeps the grains from gathering but decon of purple and lower, which is the most comely found items, would be a way to improve those levels of crafted items. With getting a grain back I don't want to buy pieces to decon, but would reconsider if I got back plating's.

    Noticed that I can not decon Infused rings I gather from Psijic Nodes. Is this just me or is it all? We should be able to decon those if we choose. If it now drops in game, it should be able to be decon.

    Keeping the grain system then a Hireling should be added to give us a small increase in grains and materials. I would expect to see ZOS have the gold grains as very rare and maybe even limited to only from refining the materials.

    just changing the decon would be a 10x reduction in platings... that would an utterly absurd amount of change. If they removed the grains, but reduced drop rates by 50% AND increased the costs back up to 2-3-4-8 (like all other crafts) THEN it would be OK.

    Decon of old jewelry would be fine (that was in so people didn't farm/hoard jewelry right before introduction)

    Jewelry Hireling would be nice. Would have to get a few more skill points on a couple of characters though.

    you read that wrong, it is currently that you get one grain from decon of Jewelry which is absurd. I am saying they need to give a plate instead which equals 10 grains to bring the green, blue and purple upgrade mats more in line.

    I was not talking about old Jewelry either. I am talking about the current infused trait items you get from Psijic Nodes. Any Jewelry generated in the game now needs to be decon capable, we are past the release of the system that stated that items prior to would not be decon and going forward it would be decon capable. But not all are it seems, which is wrong IMHO.

    I apologize, I misstated with it. changing from grains on decon to platings would be a 10-fold increase in materials. (it was earlier in the day and I don't think I had my coffee yet, or it hadn't kicked in.. lol) The rest of my statement was in line with my thoughts though. If you went that route. 50% reduction in drop rate, back to the old 2-3-4-8 for amount needed, making it identical to the other crafts.

    and sure... being able to decon everything... fine.

    I dunno, I wouldn't reduce the drop rate if the improvement cost was increaced. I have basically *** all jewelry platings and 10 times *** all would be barely enough as is. Jewelry to decon is hardly plentiful.

    The combination of the two ideas of mine would result in 2.5x as many gold platings, But it would result in effectively a 3.75x increase in zircon platings, due to their increase only being from 3 platings to 4 platings.

    Any more than that would make jewelry crafting extremely cheap (which ZoS has EXPLICITLY stated they do not want, they wanted it more expensive)

    yeah but most of us don't want it more exclusive

    You're not reading it right. Granted you'd have less PLATINGS than you currently get GRAINS (which is already the case), but you'd be able to actually upgrade more rings, do more master writs, or make more furnishings.

    Is there any suggestion that will satisfy you? Other than making them as common as every other material in the game? Which has been stated by numerous people, would have a disastrous effect on the economy of the game.
    Edited by tmbrinks on November 19, 2018 3:25PM
    Healer - Valravn - - - Raid Leader - Nightfighters
    Elearium - EP - Templar healer - Bringer of Light - Welkynar Liberator - Voice of Reason - Dro-m’Athra Destroyer - Flawless Conquerer - Former Empress - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner - Master Angler - Grand Master Crafter - All Motifs - 32.1k+ Achievement Points
    El’arium - EP - Magblade - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elorím - DC - Warden healer - Bringer of Light - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner
    Elearíum - DC - Templar healer - Bringer of Light
    Elorim - EP - Magplar - Stormproof
    Elarium - EP - Magsorc - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elearium Mule - EP - Stamplar - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster
  • stitchesofdooom
    stitchesofdooom
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    yep: MORE PLATINGS please
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Grimm13 wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Grimm13 wrote: »
    While it is not the best solution it would be an improvement if...
    • Jewelry Decon - give back a plating instead of grain.
    • Allow Decon of all Jewelry dropped now in game.
    • add a Jewelry Hiring

    Even just the decon change would be a vast improvement. Yes it keeps the grains from gathering but decon of purple and lower, which is the most comely found items, would be a way to improve those levels of crafted items. With getting a grain back I don't want to buy pieces to decon, but would reconsider if I got back plating's.

    Noticed that I can not decon Infused rings I gather from Psijic Nodes. Is this just me or is it all? We should be able to decon those if we choose. If it now drops in game, it should be able to be decon.

    Keeping the grain system then a Hireling should be added to give us a small increase in grains and materials. I would expect to see ZOS have the gold grains as very rare and maybe even limited to only from refining the materials.

    just changing the decon would be a 10x reduction in platings... that would an utterly absurd amount of change. If they removed the grains, but reduced drop rates by 50% AND increased the costs back up to 2-3-4-8 (like all other crafts) THEN it would be OK.

    Decon of old jewelry would be fine (that was in so people didn't farm/hoard jewelry right before introduction)

    Jewelry Hireling would be nice. Would have to get a few more skill points on a couple of characters though.

    you read that wrong, it is currently that you get one grain from decon of Jewelry which is absurd. I am saying they need to give a plate instead which equals 10 grains to bring the green, blue and purple upgrade mats more in line.

    I was not talking about old Jewelry either. I am talking about the current infused trait items you get from Psijic Nodes. Any Jewelry generated in the game now needs to be decon capable, we are past the release of the system that stated that items prior to would not be decon and going forward it would be decon capable. But not all are it seems, which is wrong IMHO.

    I apologize, I misstated with it. changing from grains on decon to platings would be a 10-fold increase in materials. (it was earlier in the day and I don't think I had my coffee yet, or it hadn't kicked in.. lol) The rest of my statement was in line with my thoughts though. If you went that route. 50% reduction in drop rate, back to the old 2-3-4-8 for amount needed, making it identical to the other crafts.

    and sure... being able to decon everything... fine.

    I dunno, I wouldn't reduce the drop rate if the improvement cost was increaced. I have basically *** all jewelry platings and 10 times *** all would be barely enough as is. Jewelry to decon is hardly plentiful.

    The combination of the two ideas of mine would result in 2.5x as many gold platings, But it would result in effectively a 3.75x increase in zircon platings, due to their increase only being from 3 platings to 4 platings.

    Any more than that would make jewelry crafting extremely cheap (which ZoS has EXPLICITLY stated they do not want, they wanted it more expensive)

    yeah but most of us don't want it more exclusive

    You're not reading it right. Granted you'd have less PLATINGS than you currently get GRAINS (which is already the case), but you'd be able to actually upgrade more rings, do more master writs, or make more furnishings.

    Is there any suggestion that will satisfy you? Other than making them as common as every other material in the game? Which has been stated by numerous people, would have a disastrous effect on the economy of the game.

    you mean "disastrous for people who like to get rich from selling grains and platings". People still made millions/week before JC and would still without it to buff their sales.
    Say NO to Crown Crates. Crown Crates are Loot Boxes. Loot Boxes are gambling. Zenimax makes enough money off us.
    ESO+ is part of the "Games as a service" trend. A trend that needs to die. Subscribe only when you need Crowns for DLC.
    Say no to "radiant" junk quests replacing proper side content and the dumbing down of our favorite franchises.
    PCMR EU.
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
    ✭✭✭✭
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    yep: MORE PLATINGS please
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Grimm13 wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Grimm13 wrote: »
    While it is not the best solution it would be an improvement if...
    • Jewelry Decon - give back a plating instead of grain.
    • Allow Decon of all Jewelry dropped now in game.
    • add a Jewelry Hiring

    Even just the decon change would be a vast improvement. Yes it keeps the grains from gathering but decon of purple and lower, which is the most comely found items, would be a way to improve those levels of crafted items. With getting a grain back I don't want to buy pieces to decon, but would reconsider if I got back plating's.

    Noticed that I can not decon Infused rings I gather from Psijic Nodes. Is this just me or is it all? We should be able to decon those if we choose. If it now drops in game, it should be able to be decon.

    Keeping the grain system then a Hireling should be added to give us a small increase in grains and materials. I would expect to see ZOS have the gold grains as very rare and maybe even limited to only from refining the materials.

    just changing the decon would be a 10x reduction in platings... that would an utterly absurd amount of change. If they removed the grains, but reduced drop rates by 50% AND increased the costs back up to 2-3-4-8 (like all other crafts) THEN it would be OK.

    Decon of old jewelry would be fine (that was in so people didn't farm/hoard jewelry right before introduction)

    Jewelry Hireling would be nice. Would have to get a few more skill points on a couple of characters though.

    you read that wrong, it is currently that you get one grain from decon of Jewelry which is absurd. I am saying they need to give a plate instead which equals 10 grains to bring the green, blue and purple upgrade mats more in line.

    I was not talking about old Jewelry either. I am talking about the current infused trait items you get from Psijic Nodes. Any Jewelry generated in the game now needs to be decon capable, we are past the release of the system that stated that items prior to would not be decon and going forward it would be decon capable. But not all are it seems, which is wrong IMHO.

    I apologize, I misstated with it. changing from grains on decon to platings would be a 10-fold increase in materials. (it was earlier in the day and I don't think I had my coffee yet, or it hadn't kicked in.. lol) The rest of my statement was in line with my thoughts though. If you went that route. 50% reduction in drop rate, back to the old 2-3-4-8 for amount needed, making it identical to the other crafts.

    and sure... being able to decon everything... fine.

    I dunno, I wouldn't reduce the drop rate if the improvement cost was increaced. I have basically *** all jewelry platings and 10 times *** all would be barely enough as is. Jewelry to decon is hardly plentiful.

    The combination of the two ideas of mine would result in 2.5x as many gold platings, But it would result in effectively a 3.75x increase in zircon platings, due to their increase only being from 3 platings to 4 platings.

    Any more than that would make jewelry crafting extremely cheap (which ZoS has EXPLICITLY stated they do not want, they wanted it more expensive)

    yeah but most of us don't want it more exclusive

    You're not reading it right. Granted you'd have less PLATINGS than you currently get GRAINS (which is already the case), but you'd be able to actually upgrade more rings, do more master writs, or make more furnishings.

    Is there any suggestion that will satisfy you? Other than making them as common as every other material in the game? Which has been stated by numerous people, would have a disastrous effect on the economy of the game.

    you mean "disastrous for people who like to get rich from selling grains and platings". People still made millions/week before JC and would still without it to buff their sales.

    no, I mean making the golden worthless, and the gold sink that it is, which could lead to deflation.

    How are people "getting rich from grains/platings" when there is a shortage of them? Your two premises that you have are incompatible. Unless you believe that the "rich" are hoarding the JC materials, and only releasing them slowly, like the diamond industry in real life. Unfortunately, there are so many sources for them (everybody doing trials, everybody doing writs, etc...) that the free market would bring the price down, because there would be people willing to sell for lower. Unlike the diamond industry, which is controlled by only a couple of companies.

    So either, you think there's a big conspiracy keeping prices inflated (there isn't) or you haven't taken an economic class (most likely). Prices are set by the market, the availability of materials, and the effort required to get them. Right now you just sound bitter that you don't have the ability to "get in on the millions"

    I will sell my 4 platings in your honor! Show me those millions!!! (280k - taxes!!!)
    Edited by tmbrinks on November 21, 2018 12:07AM
    Healer - Valravn - - - Raid Leader - Nightfighters
    Elearium - EP - Templar healer - Bringer of Light - Welkynar Liberator - Voice of Reason - Dro-m’Athra Destroyer - Flawless Conquerer - Former Empress - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner - Master Angler - Grand Master Crafter - All Motifs - 32.1k+ Achievement Points
    El’arium - EP - Magblade - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elorím - DC - Warden healer - Bringer of Light - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner
    Elearíum - DC - Templar healer - Bringer of Light
    Elorim - EP - Magplar - Stormproof
    Elarium - EP - Magsorc - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elearium Mule - EP - Stamplar - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @tmbrinks , I don't think we have enough data to discuss how absence of Golden would affect in-game economy. We don't know the scale of that gold sink - because most of the time, she's not selling anything useful, only on rare occasion jewelry from a viable set is sold, and those infrequent bursts of gold sucked out of economy may pale in comparison to the enormous amounts dumped every week into bidding on guild traders.

    Also, I think that "everybody doing trials" is a little stretch. Not a lot of people run trials. Fewer yet, vet trials. A non-HM run gives, on average, half a gold grain. So I don't think that it can be even remotely counted as prominent source.
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
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    @tmbrinks , I don't think we have enough data to discuss how absence of Golden would affect in-game economy. We don't know the scale of that gold sink - because most of the time, she's not selling anything useful, only on rare occasion jewelry from a viable set is sold, and those infrequent bursts of gold sucked out of economy may pale in comparison to the enormous amounts dumped every week into bidding on guild traders.

    Also, I think that "everybody doing trials" is a little stretch. Not a lot of people run trials. Fewer yet, vet trials. A non-HM run gives, on average, half a gold grain. So I don't think that it can be even remotely counted as prominent source.

    the golden is a source of income for many pvpers as they are able to convert their AP into gold by selling the items from there to others. There are not many other good AP sinks in the game. Where would that go?

    "everybody" was probably the wrong word to use (I should have said "everybody WHO IS doing trials", "everybody WHO IS doing writs")... the point was that there are MANY, MANY alternate sources to get materials, so the "mass conspiracy by the wealthy to control the supply and prices" is a laughable claim

    Edited by tmbrinks on November 21, 2018 12:30PM
    Healer - Valravn - - - Raid Leader - Nightfighters
    Elearium - EP - Templar healer - Bringer of Light - Welkynar Liberator - Voice of Reason - Dro-m’Athra Destroyer - Flawless Conquerer - Former Empress - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner - Master Angler - Grand Master Crafter - All Motifs - 32.1k+ Achievement Points
    El’arium - EP - Magblade - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elorím - DC - Warden healer - Bringer of Light - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner
    Elearíum - DC - Templar healer - Bringer of Light
    Elorim - EP - Magplar - Stormproof
    Elarium - EP - Magsorc - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elearium Mule - EP - Stamplar - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @tmbrinks , the income source for PvP people is a valid concern of course. I don't PvP, so I'm not sure what are other ways of converting AP to gold. But yes, that would need addressing; point in case, it's not exactly a gold sink, since gold isn't going anywhere - it just flows from PvE to PvP, but stays in the game. It is a good thing, though it's more about AP economy... which might be in trouble if the Golden is the only place to spend APs at.

    And of course, conspiracy isn't a thing. I would admit if told that some parties earn more than majority of players from high price on gold platings - I mean bot farmers here - but I do not suspect them to be any sort of organized force.
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
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    @tmbrinks , the income source for PvP people is a valid concern of course. I don't PvP, so I'm not sure what are other ways of converting AP to gold. But yes, that would need addressing; point in case, it's not exactly a gold sink, since gold isn't going anywhere - it just flows from PvE to PvP, but stays in the game. It is a good thing, though it's more about AP economy... which might be in trouble if the Golden is the only place to spend APs at.

    And of course, conspiracy isn't a thing. I would admit if told that some parties earn more than majority of players from high price on gold platings - I mean bot farmers here - but I do not suspect them to be any sort of organized force.

    I'd argue that then, those PvPers end up spending the gold at the traders for potions primarily, using the trader gold sink as a result. Granted it is a secondary gold sink, but both of them are needed. The golden was introduced after it became apparent that there was no good way to sell your AP, and people were just stockpiling it, making it worth less. Other than that, the only other one is the Akaviri and Militant Ordinator motifs, although by this time, those are not worth much, since most who want them have them.
    Healer - Valravn - - - Raid Leader - Nightfighters
    Elearium - EP - Templar healer - Bringer of Light - Welkynar Liberator - Voice of Reason - Dro-m’Athra Destroyer - Flawless Conquerer - Former Empress - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner - Master Angler - Grand Master Crafter - All Motifs - 32.1k+ Achievement Points
    El’arium - EP - Magblade - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elorím - DC - Warden healer - Bringer of Light - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner
    Elearíum - DC - Templar healer - Bringer of Light
    Elorim - EP - Magplar - Stormproof
    Elarium - EP - Magsorc - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elearium Mule - EP - Stamplar - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @tmbrinks , again, it's an indirect sink; the gold that went to PvPers will return to sellers through guild traders, it would be shuffling gold back and forth between PvP and PvE - it still stays in the system. It does help the gold to disappear, but in indirect way - by redistributing wealth (in terms of gold) to a typically poorer part of game population, which leads to more in-game sales, and only at this point 3.5% gold disappears from the economy as a part of 7% trader tax (half erased, half goes to guild bank). Assuming that PvPer have sold the jewelry through a trader too, that would make at most 7% of gold generated by the deals on The Golden's jewelry to disappear from economy. Considering the sporadic nature of her jewelry's usefulness, still don't think it makes a significant contribution towards fighting the gold deflation (compared to systematic weekly multi-million trader bids), but I'll of course agree that it does play important part in AP economy and stimulates trading some, so there's that.
  • stitchesofdooom
    stitchesofdooom
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    The Golden trader also sells other golden items, not just jewelry. Need to expand trader's stock to include golden recipes and certain motif pages.

    Arguments to keep the JC system the way it is mostly refer to the golden trader becoming worthless but that doesn't need to be the case at all. There are loads of golden things she could sell.

    And still JC MW keep piling up with no way to complete them, and they don't sell all that well. Not to mention that the average player has far too few platings, otherwise the prices for platings and grains would be far more reasonable in guild traders. If you're paying more than 8k for a gold plating (which we are by a lot) then you're paying too much.
    Say NO to Crown Crates. Crown Crates are Loot Boxes. Loot Boxes are gambling. Zenimax makes enough money off us.
    ESO+ is part of the "Games as a service" trend. A trend that needs to die. Subscribe only when you need Crowns for DLC.
    Say no to "radiant" junk quests replacing proper side content and the dumbing down of our favorite franchises.
    PCMR EU.
  • Dawnblade
    Dawnblade
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jewelry crafting is next to useless compared to every other craft (both in doing MW and in using it to craft gear for one's own characters) given the costs in time and materials to make or upgrade anything.

    It's clear ZOS wanted to make it excessively grindy when it was new (like most of Summerset - 'cough, cough Psijic line anyone'), but the novelty has warn off and it should work closer to other crafting skills.

    And saying it has to stay this way 'because golden' is silly - I'm sure they can adjust the wares on offer to entice players if the vendor is that big of a deal as far as a gold sink, or even just adjust other gold sinks.

    As far as a use for AP, again update the stuff on the vendors - not hard.

    So whatever they can do to improve the usability of the skill (remove grains, more drops from refining, less to make plating, less plating to upgrade, full plating from deconstruction), I'd be in full support.

    Edited by Dawnblade on November 23, 2018 2:10PM
  • Iselin
    Iselin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Dawnblade wrote: »
    Jewelry crafting is next to useless compared to every other craft (both in doing MW and in using it to craft gear for one's own characters) given the costs in time and materials to make or upgrade anything.

    It's clear ZOS wanted to make it excessively grindy when it was new (like most of Summerset - 'cough, cough Psijic line anyone'), but the novelty has warn off and it should work closer to other crafting skills.

    And saying it has to stay this way 'because golden' is silly - I'm sure they can adjust the wares on offer to entice players if the vendor is that big of a deal as far as a gold sink, or even just adjust other gold sinks.

    As far as a use for AP, again update the stuff on the vendors - not hard.

    So whatever they can do to improve the usability of the skill (remove grains, more drops from refining, less to make plating, less plating to upgrade, full plating from deconstruction), I'd be in full support.

    All of the "it must be this way to preserve the golden vendor" rationalizations ignore the basic fact that it is this way at all quality levels. The same grindy "tax" exists for green, blue and purple. Even if it made sense for gold jewelry (and that doesn't make sense to me when you bring golden weapons into the mix) it makes no sense for the lesser qualities nor the 10:1 trait stones.

    As you say, it's the casual crafters who just want to make gear for themselves that suffer the brunt of this extremely annoying and useless system.
    Edited by Iselin on November 23, 2018 8:45PM
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
    ✭✭✭✭
    Iselin wrote: »
    Dawnblade wrote: »
    Jewelry crafting is next to useless compared to every other craft (both in doing MW and in using it to craft gear for one's own characters) given the costs in time and materials to make or upgrade anything.

    It's clear ZOS wanted to make it excessively grindy when it was new (like most of Summerset - 'cough, cough Psijic line anyone'), but the novelty has warn off and it should work closer to other crafting skills.

    And saying it has to stay this way 'because golden' is silly - I'm sure they can adjust the wares on offer to entice players if the vendor is that big of a deal as far as a gold sink, or even just adjust other gold sinks.

    As far as a use for AP, again update the stuff on the vendors - not hard.

    So whatever they can do to improve the usability of the skill (remove grains, more drops from refining, less to make plating, less plating to upgrade, full plating from deconstruction), I'd be in full support.

    All of the "it must be this way to preserve the golden vendor" rationalizations ignore the basic fact that it is this way at all quality levels. The same grindy "tax" exists for green, blue and purple. Even if it made sense for gold jewelry (and that doesn't make sense to me when you bring golden weapons into the mix) it makes no sense for the lesser qualities nor the 10:1 trait stones.

    As you say, it's the casual crafters who just want to make gear for themselves that suffer the brunt of this extremely annoying and useless system.

    The game was perfectly fine for 4 years before JC came out... would you rather go back to that? Or have this new, OPTIONAL system that allows you to customize your build even further, as long as you're willing to spend some time, or gold?

    You all get an inch, and you all want to take a mile.
    Healer - Valravn - - - Raid Leader - Nightfighters
    Elearium - EP - Templar healer - Bringer of Light - Welkynar Liberator - Voice of Reason - Dro-m’Athra Destroyer - Flawless Conquerer - Former Empress - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner - Master Angler - Grand Master Crafter - All Motifs - 32.1k+ Achievement Points
    El’arium - EP - Magblade - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elorím - DC - Warden healer - Bringer of Light - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner
    Elearíum - DC - Templar healer - Bringer of Light
    Elorim - EP - Magplar - Stormproof
    Elarium - EP - Magsorc - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elearium Mule - EP - Stamplar - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster
  • Iselin
    Iselin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Iselin wrote: »
    Dawnblade wrote: »
    Jewelry crafting is next to useless compared to every other craft (both in doing MW and in using it to craft gear for one's own characters) given the costs in time and materials to make or upgrade anything.

    It's clear ZOS wanted to make it excessively grindy when it was new (like most of Summerset - 'cough, cough Psijic line anyone'), but the novelty has warn off and it should work closer to other crafting skills.

    And saying it has to stay this way 'because golden' is silly - I'm sure they can adjust the wares on offer to entice players if the vendor is that big of a deal as far as a gold sink, or even just adjust other gold sinks.

    As far as a use for AP, again update the stuff on the vendors - not hard.

    So whatever they can do to improve the usability of the skill (remove grains, more drops from refining, less to make plating, less plating to upgrade, full plating from deconstruction), I'd be in full support.

    All of the "it must be this way to preserve the golden vendor" rationalizations ignore the basic fact that it is this way at all quality levels. The same grindy "tax" exists for green, blue and purple. Even if it made sense for gold jewelry (and that doesn't make sense to me when you bring golden weapons into the mix) it makes no sense for the lesser qualities nor the 10:1 trait stones.

    As you say, it's the casual crafters who just want to make gear for themselves that suffer the brunt of this extremely annoying and useless system.

    The game was perfectly fine for 4 years before JC came out... would you rather go back to that? Or have this new, OPTIONAL system that allows you to customize your build even further, as long as you're willing to spend some time, or gold?

    You all get an inch, and you all want to take a mile.

    Maybe you're the kind of person that's happy with good enough. IMO if something is worth doing it's worth doing right. I'd actually be happier without the kind of jewelry crafting they've done.
  • stitchesofdooom
    stitchesofdooom
    ✭✭✭✭
    Has anyone else noticed that when jewelry crafting came onto the scene, we got mostly JC Master Writs for our dailies and fewer of any other kind of master writ. And most of those non-JC master writs were really low voucher return?
    Then, a little while back we got fewer JC and more of the rest, and higher voucher return non-JC master writs. It was basically like normal again.

    But for the last few weeks, most of the non-jewelry master writs I get from dailies are weak af. Low voucer return. And JC master writs have increased again, with still no increace in platings.

    *** ridiculous.
    Edited by stitchesofdooom on November 24, 2018 8:52PM
    Say NO to Crown Crates. Crown Crates are Loot Boxes. Loot Boxes are gambling. Zenimax makes enough money off us.
    ESO+ is part of the "Games as a service" trend. A trend that needs to die. Subscribe only when you need Crowns for DLC.
    Say no to "radiant" junk quests replacing proper side content and the dumbing down of our favorite franchises.
    PCMR EU.
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
    ✭✭✭✭
    I have noticed no change in drops of master writs between the different types from before JC was introduced, or when Murkmire dropped (or when Wolfhunter dropped for that matter). Nor have I noticed any change in the number of vouchers I've gotten.

    The burden of proof is in the accuser... anecdotal evidence is not sufficient.
    Healer - Valravn - - - Raid Leader - Nightfighters
    Elearium - EP - Templar healer - Bringer of Light - Welkynar Liberator - Voice of Reason - Dro-m’Athra Destroyer - Flawless Conquerer - Former Empress - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner - Master Angler - Grand Master Crafter - All Motifs - 32.1k+ Achievement Points
    El’arium - EP - Magblade - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elorím - DC - Warden healer - Bringer of Light - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner
    Elearíum - DC - Templar healer - Bringer of Light
    Elorim - EP - Magplar - Stormproof
    Elarium - EP - Magsorc - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elearium Mule - EP - Stamplar - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster
  • stitchesofdooom
    stitchesofdooom
    ✭✭✭✭
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    I have noticed no change in drops of master writs between the different types from before JC was introduced, or when Murkmire dropped (or when Wolfhunter dropped for that matter). Nor have I noticed any change in the number of vouchers I've gotten.

    The burden of proof is in the accuser... anecdotal evidence is not sufficient.

    lucky you
    Say NO to Crown Crates. Crown Crates are Loot Boxes. Loot Boxes are gambling. Zenimax makes enough money off us.
    ESO+ is part of the "Games as a service" trend. A trend that needs to die. Subscribe only when you need Crowns for DLC.
    Say no to "radiant" junk quests replacing proper side content and the dumbing down of our favorite franchises.
    PCMR EU.
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
    ✭✭✭✭
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    I have noticed no change in drops of master writs between the different types from before JC was introduced, or when Murkmire dropped (or when Wolfhunter dropped for that matter). Nor have I noticed any change in the number of vouchers I've gotten.

    The burden of proof is in the accuser... anecdotal evidence is not sufficient.

    lucky you

    you asked if anybody else had noticed a change in drop rate... I answered... and you patronize my response.
    Healer - Valravn - - - Raid Leader - Nightfighters
    Elearium - EP - Templar healer - Bringer of Light - Welkynar Liberator - Voice of Reason - Dro-m’Athra Destroyer - Flawless Conquerer - Former Empress - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner - Master Angler - Grand Master Crafter - All Motifs - 32.1k+ Achievement Points
    El’arium - EP - Magblade - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elorím - DC - Warden healer - Bringer of Light - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner
    Elearíum - DC - Templar healer - Bringer of Light
    Elorim - EP - Magplar - Stormproof
    Elarium - EP - Magsorc - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elearium Mule - EP - Stamplar - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster
  • WolfStar07
    WolfStar07
    ✭✭
    As you said, anecdotal evidence is not sufficient. You are the lone response to stitches question.

    I was not doing writs regularly at the time jc came out, so I can't speak for that. Most of the master writs I get anyway are weak, so I hadn't noticed if there was a difference. I have suddenly gotten larger jc writs, and more jc writs than I used to, which is annoying. Not sure if that is their design or just rng.
  • stitchesofdooom
    stitchesofdooom
    ✭✭✭✭
    WolfStar07 wrote: »
    As you said, anecdotal evidence is not sufficient. You are the lone response to stitches question.

    I was not doing writs regularly at the time jc came out, so I can't speak for that. Most of the master writs I get anyway are weak, so I hadn't noticed if there was a difference. I have suddenly gotten larger jc writs, and more jc writs than I used to, which is annoying. Not sure if that is their design or just rng.

    used to get a load more jc writs for 20-100+ vouchers. Several/week. It's been weeks since I last saw one.
    Say NO to Crown Crates. Crown Crates are Loot Boxes. Loot Boxes are gambling. Zenimax makes enough money off us.
    ESO+ is part of the "Games as a service" trend. A trend that needs to die. Subscribe only when you need Crowns for DLC.
    Say no to "radiant" junk quests replacing proper side content and the dumbing down of our favorite franchises.
    PCMR EU.
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
    ✭✭✭✭
    WolfStar07 wrote: »
    As you said, anecdotal evidence is not sufficient. You are the lone response to stitches question.

    I was not doing writs regularly at the time jc came out, so I can't speak for that. Most of the master writs I get anyway are weak, so I hadn't noticed if there was a difference. I have suddenly gotten larger jc writs, and more jc writs than I used to, which is annoying. Not sure if that is their design or just rng.

    The more vouchers is because ZoS increased the amount that they give, with the Wolfhunter patch.

    The higher number of writs is probably just RNG.

    If you're only doing writs on 1 or 2 characters a day, you are going to see a very wildly varying number of "voucher" events. From a statistical standpoint you need to do hundreds (if not thousands) of them to determine a pattern, and doing them 7-14 (2 character, assuming you're doing all 7 crafts) would take you nearly 3 months of doing writs to see any sort of pattern and being able to deduce a pattern. Same thing is true of all random events.

    I do writs, nearly every day, on 26 characters, between 2 accounts. (I'm a nerd about it, it's my source of income in the game, why I do it doesn't really matter). But this means that I have 182 "voucher" events in a day, so it only takes me 5.5 days to hit 1,000 of them. I would argue that the data I have is pretty significant, because of the sheer number of them that I have done, which "smooths" out the randomness of the data. I personally, have seen no change in the number of master writs that drop. I've seen no increase in the number of jewelry crafting master writs that drop, and I have seen no change in the number of "big" voucher master writs that drop. I would have to believe, that after doing approximately 35,000 of them since Summerset dropped, that I'd notice if any major changes had occurred. (And yes, I know this is still anecdotal, since I haven't actually tracked it and wrote down every single writ I've gotten. I'm a nerd, not that big of one though... lol)

    I don't know how many writs Stiches is doing. Most of their responses in here are sarcastic, put-downs to anybody who doesn't agree with them. Or statements of agreement with anybody who does. I don't know how many writs you are doing either, but that information does matter when coming up with conclusions.

    Humans have long seen patterns that aren't there. Humans tend to underestimate the "good" things that happen and overestimate the "bad" things. Humans also tend to be terrible at understanding statistics and how "random" things occur.
    Healer - Valravn - - - Raid Leader - Nightfighters
    Elearium - EP - Templar healer - Bringer of Light - Welkynar Liberator - Voice of Reason - Dro-m’Athra Destroyer - Flawless Conquerer - Former Empress - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner - Master Angler - Grand Master Crafter - All Motifs - 32.1k+ Achievement Points
    El’arium - EP - Magblade - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elorím - DC - Warden healer - Bringer of Light - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner
    Elearíum - DC - Templar healer - Bringer of Light
    Elorim - EP - Magplar - Stormproof
    Elarium - EP - Magsorc - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elearium Mule - EP - Stamplar - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster
  • Trinity_Is_My_Name
    Trinity_Is_My_Name
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most Jewelry Master Writs I get I do not complete. When a writ states I will get 31 Vouchers for an Platinum Epic quality piece of jewelry it just isn't worth it. Zircon plating goes for about 35K or so and I need three to craft the one piece in Epic quality.

    Same goes for the 101 and 105 voucher writs calling for a Legendary piece of jewelry to be crafted. Really? LOL.

    I have yet to have a single person buy any of these writs or even take them from the Guild Bank when I put them there. It's just too costly for the amount of Vouchers received in most cases. So, I DESTROY them.

    Jewelry Crafting needs to be changed for it to be worth doing many of these Master Writs.
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
    ✭✭✭✭
    Most Jewelry Master Writs I get I do not complete. When a writ states I will get 31 Vouchers for an Platinum Epic quality piece of jewelry it just isn't worth it. Zircon plating goes for about 35K or so and I need three to craft the one piece in Epic quality.

    Same goes for the 101 and 105 voucher writs calling for a Legendary piece of jewelry to be crafted. Really? LOL.

    I have yet to have a single person buy any of these writs or even take them from the Guild Bank when I put them there. It's just too costly for the amount of Vouchers received in most cases. So, I DESTROY them.

    Jewelry Crafting needs to be changed for it to be worth doing many of these Master Writs.

    I agree. A 50% increase in vouchers would suffice. Then, as prices come down, most will be worth doing (just like there are other master writs right now that aren't worth doing). Prices will come down eventually as people finish upgrading their gear, as the crafting gets done, the demand will drop, and the prices will then come down accordingly. People are comparing prices to that of Alloy, Rosin and Wax. Those have had 4 1/2 years to get to their prices, Chromium is at 6 months, and in high demand, it'll happen.
    Healer - Valravn - - - Raid Leader - Nightfighters
    Elearium - EP - Templar healer - Bringer of Light - Welkynar Liberator - Voice of Reason - Dro-m’Athra Destroyer - Flawless Conquerer - Former Empress - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner - Master Angler - Grand Master Crafter - All Motifs - 32.1k+ Achievement Points
    El’arium - EP - Magblade - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elorím - DC - Warden healer - Bringer of Light - Voice of Reason - Divayth Fyr's Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner
    Elearíum - DC - Templar healer - Bringer of Light
    Elorim - EP - Magplar - Stormproof
    Elarium - EP - Magsorc - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Stormproof
    Elearium Mule - EP - Stamplar - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster
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