Beginning of the end for Crown Crates.

Shaie

First off, the CHOICE to purchase a Crown Crate or Loot Crate in ANY game is exactly that - a CHOICE. Whether or not you like Crown Crates is not important; if you don't like them, then don't buy them. By that same logic though, if you don't like them then you should also NEVER EVER open them if they are given to you for free. It's the principle of the thing, you see? (I'll bet that not a single "Crown Crate Hater" has unopened crates that they have absolutely no intention of ever opening either, because "Well it's ok because they GAVE it to me & I didn't have to BUY it".)

All of that said, I personally have neither love nor hate for them. I don't buy them, but I open the freebies.

Now, here is the part that the haters are missing & to me this is VERY important:

The UK Gambling Commission’s current stance is that loot boxes are not gambling if the items you get through them cannot be exchange for real money. Which again illustrates why they’re so down on third party websites that do allow that.

There is not a single item in a Crown Crate that can be exchanged for real money. Not even the items purchased for Crown Gems can be traded to another player & I do not believe they can be gifted either. Even if they CAN be gifted, it would be extremely difficult to prove that they were gifted in return for real money. Crown Crates will likely not be affected AT ALL due to that one simple little phrase. What MAY be affected are the Loot Crates that contain physical items, as those items could then be sold to others via EBay or other means. HOWEVER, how would this then affect the many monthly "loot box" programs that are available worldwide? Am I gambling because I participate in a monthly "Rescue Box" (speaking of which, if you love animals please look into this) for my cats? Technically, I could remove all of the items every month & sell them on EBay. Yes, I pay for the box, but it could be considered "gambling" as I pay for a box of items & have no idea what I will get (other than items for cats). There are so many companies jumping on the "loot box" bandwagon right now & a lot of them are very cool. I would hate to see that ended because of this legislation.

It's one of those, "Once we start this, where do we draw the line" type of things & I don't think there is or will be an easy answer.

Davor

Shaie wrote: »

The UK Gambling Commission’s current stance is that loot boxes are not gambling if the items you get through them cannot be exchange for real money. Which again illustrates why they’re so down on third party websites that do allow that.

Just because no real money is given out, it is still gambling. Zenimax and companies are just side stepping the issue. Legally you are correct, but it's still the same thing and morally that is wrong.

I already quoted what dictionary.com say gambling is. So yes it is gambling but the only reason it's legal is because of no money is given out. Just because no money is given out does it make it right? No it's still wrong.

While you say it's a choice, how can you say that? What if a person who doesn't have a choice buys it? What about children? Is it ok for them to buy it? People who have an addiction. To them it's not a choice. It's a mental illness. We are humans. We help people who need it. This is why we have all these addiction centers for sex, alcohol, food, gambling, substance abuse, drugs, what ever.

For people who can make the choice, fine, we are adults after all. But what about people who can't make the choice then?

idk

Androconium wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

ZOS is a private company? So they are a parent company then. I am sure Zenimax is a publicly traded company. If I am wrong thank you for the clarification @Juju_beans. As for where I get my stats from? Common sense? After all Zenimax is a company that wants to make money. They sue other companies to make money. They also make stuff in the crown store for as little as possible and sell it as much as the market will bear. So if they can sell one item that takes say a week to make and sell it for the same cost of the base game that would mean they would do more of this if it sold. So since they are not sold and are in crates and or time exclusive tells me that they don't sell.

So common sense. Does common sense say this the other way? If so, I don't see it. Not saying I am wrong but it's my opinion which I forgot to say. Sorry for that and listing it as fact. I apologize for it.


@Pheefs about the duckies at a carnival, thing is you have to earn it by your own competence. The loot boxes are like an instant scratch ticket hoping to get the biggest prize.

If anything should be compared to then that would be card collections. Baseball/hockey cards Magic the Gathering. That is like buying a loot box with no money being returned from the company selling them.

Thing is I never herd of companies who do this prey on kids for gambling. Maybe I am wrong all this time and this is/was a bad practice after all. So it if is, then that doesn't mean it's right.

We play video games. Companies make video games. Companies shouldn't be making video games in order to make money from gambling.

So in the end what are we playing? IS ESO a video game or is ESO a video game made in order for Zenimax Online Studios to make money from gambling? After all people keep saying the DLC and Expansons is not enough to keep ESO alive.

Your wrong. It helps to google things first.

Zenimax, the parent company, is private. It’s not publicly traded.

You're wrong. It helps to google things first.
Zenimax Media, the parent company, is private. It’s not publicly traded.

Oh, the Irony.

@Androconium

The irony is you quote a statement that clearly states Zenimax Media, the parent company, is private and you comment the same thing and somehow say I am wrong.

Might want to read what you quoted again. Very odd.

So it is clear, the quote below is where this convo started since Ando thought Bethesda was public.

Androconium wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Zenimax, the parent company, is private. It’s not publicly traded.

Bethesda is public from memory.
The fact that we don't really understand the corporate structure is a concern.

I quoted the entire thread as a separate post, as you complained that the context of the conversation was lost when I edited out, what I thought at the time, was irrelevant.
In this discussion, a lot of people, including myself, are using the wrong company names. You said Zenimax; I corrected that to Zenimax Media. I still think that this is the correct title of the parent company, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes. I used irony to point how easy it is for anyone, including myself, to get things wrong.

This is the point of democratic, free speech. Often we think that we're right, when in fact we need others to point out that we are not.

Zenimax Media believes that it is OK to lure unsuspecting players by the chance of winning a desirable reward, This would be entirely OK if the players were using in-game 'gold' to purchase the Crown Crates. The point of this debate is that people, including myself, have used real cash to buy and play the Crown Crate game of chance, where the odds are seriously stacked against them. Some people are aware of this and do it for FUN, despite the expense.

The problem being debated at an international level now, is how many people are potentially being negatively affected by this predatory practice. It may be entirely legal today, that doesn't mean that it should remain so.

All this because you incorrectly stated you Bethesda is public from memory when you quoted me stating it was public and edited out the part of my comment about googling things like this first.

Interesting. I did not read your entire lengthy post I just quoted. I did not read the rest of what you posted in this quote as it is not relevant to the incorrect information you posted earlier and I have already commented on that part of the subject.

Have a good day.

Caligamy_ESO

Odovacar wrote: »

Nobody needs anything from the crown store to be successful at ESO. We choose to buy certain items because they are of interest to us. ESO has no P2W issues.

Arguably Velidreth, Zaan, Earthgore are all locked behind paywalls and offer distinct advantages to character builds. Isn't that in a way subtle pay to win? Before you argue that they're available from the golden vendor in Cyrodil.. don't the worst of the worst p2w Korean and Chinese games also offer a free route to content that will take you a year or more to complete as opposed to outright buying it? I see no difference there.

Jayman1000

Davor wrote: »

Walks like a duck, looks like a duck, sounds like a duck. So true.

Now that GW2 stopped selling what ever their currency is in Belgium, wonder how long Zenimax will. Just goes to show you that the company that makes or produces GW2 is just as sleazy as Zenimax and EA and other companies now. Will not give up gambling until it's too late.

Come on people didn't anyone contact CNN? This can be huge, "EA preys on kids for gambling". We can also throw in Zenimax's name as well. Great story to be told. Does CNN not want the story or are they being bought out to keep quiet? Hmmm, where did my tin foil hat go?

Well if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck... maybe it actually is a duck? Or maybe you weren't being sarcastic at all? although the rest of your post seems to suggest otherwise.

Hvzeda

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Walks like a duck, looks like a duck, sounds like a duck. So true.

Now that GW2 stopped selling what ever their currency is in Belgium, wonder how long Zenimax will. Just goes to show you that the company that makes or produces GW2 is just as sleazy as Zenimax and EA and other companies now. Will not give up gambling until it's too late.

Come on people didn't anyone contact CNN? This can be huge, "EA preys on kids for gambling". We can also throw in Zenimax's name as well. Great story to be told. Does CNN not want the story or are they being bought out to keep quiet? Hmmm, where did my tin foil hat go?

Well if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck... maybe it actually is a duck? Or maybe you weren't being sarcastic at all? although the rest of your post seems to suggest otherwise.

But does it taste like a duck?

Glurin

Hvzeda wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Walks like a duck, looks like a duck, sounds like a duck. So true.

Now that GW2 stopped selling what ever their currency is in Belgium, wonder how long Zenimax will. Just goes to show you that the company that makes or produces GW2 is just as sleazy as Zenimax and EA and other companies now. Will not give up gambling until it's too late.

Come on people didn't anyone contact CNN? This can be huge, "EA preys on kids for gambling". We can also throw in Zenimax's name as well. Great story to be told. Does CNN not want the story or are they being bought out to keep quiet? Hmmm, where did my tin foil hat go?

Well if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck... maybe it actually is a duck? Or maybe you weren't being sarcastic at all? although the rest of your post seems to suggest otherwise.

But does it taste like a duck?

Nope. Tastes like chicken.

Davor

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Walks like a duck, looks like a duck, sounds like a duck. So true.

Now that GW2 stopped selling what ever their currency is in Belgium, wonder how long Zenimax will. Just goes to show you that the company that makes or produces GW2 is just as sleazy as Zenimax and EA and other companies now. Will not give up gambling until it's too late.

Come on people didn't anyone contact CNN? This can be huge, "EA preys on kids for gambling". We can also throw in Zenimax's name as well. Great story to be told. Does CNN not want the story or are they being bought out to keep quiet? Hmmm, where did my tin foil hat go?

Well if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck... maybe it actually is a duck? Or maybe you weren't being sarcastic at all? although the rest of your post seems to suggest otherwise.

I ment it as looks like gambling, sounds like gambling and walks (the mechanics) like gambling so it must be gambling.

Wifeaggro13

Shaie wrote: »

First off, the CHOICE to purchase a Crown Crate or Loot Crate in ANY game is exactly that - a CHOICE. Whether or not you like Crown Crates is not important; if you don't like them, then don't buy them. By that same logic though, if you don't like them then you should also NEVER EVER open them if they are given to you for free. It's the principle of the thing, you see? (I'll bet that not a single "Crown Crate Hater" has unopened crates that they have absolutely no intention of ever opening either, because "Well it's ok because they GAVE it to me & I didn't have to BUY it".)

All of that said, I personally have neither love nor hate for them. I don't buy them, but I open the freebies.

Now, here is the part that the haters are missing & to me this is VERY important:

The UK Gambling Commission’s current stance is that loot boxes are not gambling if the items you get through them cannot be exchange for real money. Which again illustrates why they’re so down on third party websites that do allow that.

There is not a single item in a Crown Crate that can be exchanged for real money. Not even the items purchased for Crown Gems can be traded to another player & I do not believe they can be gifted either. Even if they CAN be gifted, it would be extremely difficult to prove that they were gifted in return for real money. Crown Crates will likely not be affected AT ALL due to that one simple little phrase. What MAY be affected are the Loot Crates that contain physical items, as those items could then be sold to others via EBay or other means. HOWEVER, how would this then affect the many monthly "loot box" programs that are available worldwide? Am I gambling because I participate in a monthly "Rescue Box" (speaking of which, if you love animals please look into this) for my cats? Technically, I could remove all of the items every month & sell them on EBay. Yes, I pay for the box, but it could be considered "gambling" as I pay for a box of items & have no idea what I will get (other than items for cats). There are so many companies jumping on the "loot box" bandwagon right now & a lot of them are very cool. I would hate to see that ended because of this legislation.

It's one of those, "Once we start this, where do we draw the line" type of things & I don't think there is or will be an easy answer.

except when your whole marketing strategy is targeting young people. some one in thier 40's is less likely to spend tons of money trying to get the new glowy mount but someone between the ages of 12 to 20 will be far more enticed by glowy stuff and new skins . i have no problem with adults burning the cash they earn on garbage . but this system is preying on tons of young people and its very wrong. espically when you cannot earn these items in game as rewards.

ZOS_JesC

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