PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Ragnaroek93

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know we've been monitoring the feedback on this thread and elsewhere on the forums. Clearly there's a lot of concern around the impact of adding a cast time to Conjured Ward and Annulment.

First I'd like to talk about our motivation with the change. We believe choices between damage output and survivability make combat more interesting. There are a number of areas within our system that could better adhere to this philosophy, but these self-cast damage shield abilities stood out as being particularly out of line. It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation. This applied to both PvE and PvP scenarios.

The addition of a cast time makes that choice between damage output and survivability more deliberate and strategic. However, as many of you have pointed out, there are several potential issues with this solution. We identified many of these risks prior to PTS, and we're actively monitoring feedback from the community, Class Reps, and PTS testers.

If we decide to make significant changes to the abilities, those changes would not appear until at least PTS 3. However, we agree Conjured Ward and Annulment are too easy to interrupt in PvP, so we'll be making both spells immune to interrupts for PTS 2. We'll also be meeting with the Class Reps next week to discuss the changes.

In the meantime, we encourage you to continue experimenting, evaluating, and providing feedback.

@ZOS_RobGarrett
It's not true that shields allow sorcs to go for full damage. Sorcs have worse sustain than other classes and are forced to spend more stats into recovery to make up for the fact that they don't need to worry as much about health and resis as other classes.
The issue here is Harness Magicka, which gives simply too much sustain if you take magic dmg and that the sustain does even apply on a shieldstack even if Hardened Ward and not Harness Magicka gets damaged. The sustain from Harness Magicka and shieldstacking needs to be looked at and that's the only thing which needs to be looked at.

I've played on PTS for around 5-10 hours and have done mostly duels, I doubt that anyone of the balance team did actually test this changes on a somehow "competitive" level. There's no more feedback necessary than saying that this change is complete garbage, revert it and go back to the drawing board and come up with something better than this. The ridiculous thing is that you aren't even aware of the damage which you have done to the sorc class and complain about "bad" feedback from the community.

Sevn

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know we've been monitoring the feedback on this thread and elsewhere on the forums. Clearly there's a lot of concern around the impact of adding a cast time to Conjured Ward and Annulment.

First I'd like to talk about our motivation with the change. We believe choices between damage output and survivability make combat more interesting. There are a number of areas within our system that could better adhere to this philosophy, but these self-cast damage shield abilities stood out as being particularly out of line. It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation. This applied to both PvE and PvP scenarios.

The addition of a cast time makes that choice between damage output and survivability more deliberate and strategic. However, as many of you have pointed out, there are several potential issues with this solution. We identified many of these risks prior to PTS, and we're actively monitoring feedback from the community, Class Reps, and PTS testers.

If we decide to make significant changes to the abilities, those changes would not appear until at least PTS 3. However, we agree Conjured Ward and Annulment are too easy to interrupt in PvP, so we'll be making both spells immune to interrupts for PTS 2. We'll also be meeting with the Class Reps next week to discuss the changes.

In the meantime, we encourage you to continue experimenting, evaluating, and providing feedback.

As I thought, they are going after dps. Hope the guy that just refused to even consider it was about dps reads this, I'd love to hear his response now.

Ipslor

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation.
...
The addition of a cast time makes that choice between damage output and survivability more deliberate and strategic

So add different Damage Rating and Heal Rating. Oh, and Block Chance rating and Block Mitigation rating. So no one - NO ONE! - can invest in damage and still have good DPS and survival. That's simple: you want survivability - you plan, strategically, on your base of operations, BEFORE you go into dungeon of battlefield. You get tank/heal/dps gear, you respec your CPs, maybe re-adjust stats. That is called strategic planning.

You are healer? Stack heal rating, deal no damage, have not damage mitigation.
You're tank? Stack defensive ratings, have ABSOLUTLY NOTHING about DPS or heal, your role is absorb dmg.
DD? Sorry, no self-heals or absorb for you.

Next step is make these ratings class-specific. So Templars can only heal, DKs can only tank, Sorcerers... uhm... serve as practice mannequins, NBs can do damage and Wardens are support clas. That is really the strategic planning - you plan what you want to do on the character creation screen.

So we get a sacred triade - Healer, DD and Tank, and everyone will be happy.

I am serious. That will be no Elder Scroll game anymore, but it will be the game everyone (atleast you state that) want to play.

Juhasow

It's almost like devs are not learning on their mistakes. Just look at Healing Ritual that extremly popular cast time AoE heal. Look at how barely anyone was using this ability since game beggining and how people were making laughs and memes of how useless this ability and attempts of making it usefull are. Nobody wanted to use this ability because nobody wants defense relying on cast times in the game where split of seconds matters. And guess what developers did after 4 years of multiple attems of changing this ability while keeping cast time ? Yeah it was changed to instant cast. The irony of repeating the same mistakes is almost sad.

Xsorus

Sigtric wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't think people realize that if they didn't give them a cast time, You could basically make a build right now with insane Mitigation with layered stacking shields while being immune to Crits pretty much.

It would of been easier to just go to a Major/Minor buff system though, Make Annulment Major Shield along with Hardened.

but I understand why they went with the cast time approach if they're going Mitigation Route

If stacking is the issue, make it so shields can't stack. Simple.
No one that I have ever seen asked them to have resistances applied to them. The cast times are simply there to appease the loud people who are bad at pvp as far as I can tell, and it's seriously going to screw up pve end-game.

I mean, I just said make them not stack with a Major/Minor Buff System.

and no the Cast times are there because if you allow Shields to have Mitigation and allow Stacking you will never kill a Sorc again; People are really not grasping how powerful shields become when they add Mitigation. You're basically looking at shields being 20% to 30% stronger on someone with high resist in PvP, So look at what we have in PvP right now, and imagine the value of those shields being 20% to 30% higher....That's basically what would happen without the current casting system.

The casting system itself is basically to stop you from stacking a bunch of shields real quickly and not dying. I imagine they want Sorcs to move from high damage and high shield capability and more low damage better shield capability.

But a Major and Minor Buff system would of worked better in my opinion....To many Sorc Players simply can't handle a Cast system in pvp on Shielding....they're just not capable as players to adjust to something like that..

Morgul667

Simple solution : first shield is without cast-time, second shield cast within 4s of the previous one has a 1s cast-time

Xsorus

Morgul667 wrote: »

Simple solution : first shield is without cast-time, second shield cast within 4s of the previous one has a 1s cast-time

That would be an interesting change.

BalticBlues

Morgul667 wrote: »

Simple solution : first shield is without cast-time, second shield cast within 4s of the previous one has a 1s cast-time

Did you test any skill with a cast time? Years have shown that skills with a cast time just don't work in PvP or heavy PvE, because these skills are like casting a "Time Freeze" from the Psijics on YOURSELF, so that you become a Target Dummy for the cast time. As a consequence nobody uses such skills in PvP or heavy PvE. And now even a cast time for an essential survival skill? It is baffling - whoever came up with the idea of a cast time for shields has NO IDEA WHAT THIS MEANS... If cast times for shields will come true, at least there needs to be a cast time for Cloaking as well (survival skill of NBs), or Sorcs will just become cannon fodder. After a cast time for Cloaking, then next cast time then needs to be .... you see where this is leading...

Please ZOS, stop this cast-time-nonsense for survival skills before it even starts...

Sange13

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know we've been monitoring the feedback on this thread and elsewhere on the forums. Clearly there's a lot of concern around the impact of adding a cast time to Conjured Ward and Annulment.

/snip

While I think people will still generally take multiple issues against the change, I do appreciate the response.

Regarding the effort to balance the power of shielding against itemizing for dps while still getting a lot of defense out of shields, I don't think a cast time is the right approach. A cooldown seems like a better way, or simply increase the cost so that it is difficult to use the shield too often. It could even be the kind of thing where the cost increases by 50% each time it is cast within a certain window (10 seconds, maybe).

I think it is also worth asking if the premise is even sound. Given that shields are going to see massive changes anyway, I don't think pursuing these trade-offs is appropriate, because it is the old form of shields that is regarded as "problematic." Let's see how they look with the new changes, without the cast time, and go from there. In other words, you wouldn't take a canoe and put wheels and wings on at the same time; you would try one out, see if it works, then try the other if you didn't like the result.

cpuScientist

@ZOS_RobGarrett

Thanks so much for the reply to the concerns in this thread. If you wouldn't mind, could you clear up some things about the shield change. Was it made as some suspect purely for the sake of PvP or for PVE more a mix of both.

I ask because a popular change many are asking is to make shields adhere to a major minor system. But that wouldn't do anything if the main point of concern for shields is in PvE, and making certain content to easy for Magicka classes, and if that is the concern the community needs to know so they can better understand the change and provide more useful feedback.

Thank you for your time.

cpuScientist

Sange13 wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know we've been monitoring the feedback on this thread and elsewhere on the forums. Clearly there's a lot of concern around the impact of adding a cast time to Conjured Ward and Annulment.

/snip

While I think people will still generally take multiple issues against the change, I do appreciate the response.

Regarding the effort to balance the power of shielding against itemizing for dps while still getting a lot of defense out of shields, I don't think a cast time is the right approach. A cooldown seems like a better way, or simply increase the cost so that it is difficult to use the shield too often. It could even be the kind of thing where the cost increases by 50% each time it is cast within a certain window (10 seconds, maybe).

I think it is also worth asking if the premise is even sound. Given that shields are going to see massive changes anyway, I don't think pursuing these trade-offs is appropriate, because it is the old form of shields that is regarded as "problematic." Let's see how they look with the new changes, without the cast time, and go from there. In other words, you wouldn't take a canoe and put wheels and wings on at the same time; you would try one out, see if it works, then try the other if you didn't like the result.

That is the absolute weirdest analogy but I agree

cpuScientist

Ok okokok let's move away from this shield crap. It's either gonna stick, or they are going to come up with a new system. Let's talk about other things like if we cannot reliably use shields what changes would help is in PvP. And how is our sustain in both PVE and PvP affected by the Nerf to dark deal. And how cramped is bar space now without a 3rd bar.

cpuScientist

The dark deal change is not horrible it could be good but the cast time needs to go. From my testing, the sustain of the 20 seconds is bad especially for the cast time. This skill could solve a lot of problems though. If some of the following is considered.

1. Up the amount gotten over the 20 seconds to something more useful like 3.5-4k+
2. Make it instant cast, but halve or more the heal and also return the rest of the heal over 20 seconds.

Essentially this would give Sorcs a very beefy sustain tool comparable to other classes, it would also give the class a nice heal overtime. It would not be stacked in PVE with critsurge as Sorc bar space is cramped and critsurge is only used for the health Currently. It would also give the Sorc somewhat of a burst heal not as strong as it would be halved or more than it is on live.

For PvP it would give the mag Sorc much needed healing as critsurge is wholly unreliable. Especially if heavy armor is going to be something more necessary. It would also be a good sustain boon all around.

On live it's unusable in PVE and very strong in PvP. This would make it used in both instances.

Sange13

I know it's a weird analogy, but it's from the idea of changing the functionality from what was to what will be, and how piling on changes all at once is only going to increase the complexity of the issue, likely making it an even harder problem to solve.

LegacyDM

Remove shield stacking and allow shields to be crit. Only 1 shield can be applied at a time with increased duration. Increasing cast time is bad for the playability of the game. Makes the game feel like work and forces everyone to adapt to a clunky play style.

cpuScientist

From my testing without shields Sorcs will truly need their mobility buffed through streak. The stacking cost and what not are a whole other debate. But some QOL changes would be much appreciated.

1. Let streak remove snares and roots. Not immunity just removal.
2. Fix the movement of streak. It's very wonky drops you down feels slow and clunky.

These would allow Sorcs to have the ability to engage and disengage a little more aptly especially without shields this feels necessary.

cpuScientist

From my testing. Overload change will probably buff dps however. It does so in the way that we have been screaming is bad. Through a single Target dps tool like the bear does for wardens. The heavy channel I don't think is buffed enough to say replace a destro ultimate. But this I will be honest I would like to know what others have found with the new ulti.

steussy

o_0 wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know we've been monitoring the feedback on this thread and elsewhere on the forums. Clearly there's a lot of concern around the impact of adding a cast time to Conjured Ward and Annulment.

First I'd like to talk about our motivation with the change. We believe choices between damage output and survivability make combat more interesting. There are a number of areas within our system that could better adhere to this philosophy, but these self-cast damage shield abilities stood out as being particularly out of line. It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation. This applied to both PvE and PvP scenarios.

The addition of a cast time makes that choice between damage output and survivability more deliberate and strategic. However, as many of you have pointed out, there are several potential issues with this solution. We identified many of these risks prior to PTS, and we're actively monitoring feedback from the community, Class Reps, and PTS testers.

If we decide to make significant changes to the abilities, those changes would not appear until at least PTS 3. However, we agree Conjured Ward and Annulment are too easy to interrupt in PvP, so we'll be making both spells immune to interrupts for PTS 2. We'll also be meeting with the Class Reps next week to discuss the changes.

In the meantime, we encourage you to continue experimenting, evaluating, and providing feedback.

Instead of overly complicating this with compounding nerfs, how about start small. Lets look at 2 main concerns as I see them.

1. Shield stacking
2. Shield spamming

A simple way to address this without such major impact.

1. Shields cannot stack. Self cast shields overwrite shields applied by other group members or previously self cast shields.
2. Increase the cost of shields for those you consider to easy to spam, such as hardened ward.

Then see how that goes and what is effected and go from there. Transitioning from the current design to your proposed design is like jumping out of a parked car trying to board a moving train.

This is a terrible idea just like the shield fatigue solution someone metioned. Why do some people feel they have to trade off one bad idea for another. The critable shields should have been all that was needed here.

cpuScientist

Finally. This took near zero testing. But please ZOS TAKE AWAY BOUND ARMOR. if it's a tank skill so be it. But please PLEASE allow us to not need this slotted for the extra Magicka. Add it in a passive that gives X% Magicka per Sorc skill or something. The death of the 3rd bar and the changing of certain skills truly makes the bar feel cramped. Sorc would feel so much more useful and would flow so much better if we could fit our ultimate on the front bar. It is not fun it is not anything to have to keep that ability solo or doubled barred. Please let it be taken away. Please free us. Let it passively reduce block costs or something I'd the active is going to be a tanking aBility that would actually make sense amd be useful. ZOS SERIOUSLY CHANGE THIS.

cpuScientist

Also buff frag.

DHale

I retired my sorc for over a year at Dark Brotherhood release. Looks like I am retiring her again. Even if the shield nerf gets un-nerfed there really isn’t a compelling reason to play.sorc when other classes have more damage and much much better sustain. That said if you had to be told that the shield cast could be interrupted and you didn’t test it before nerfing it to the ground then it just makes me sad. There are only three good Sorcs on na pc the rest die so fast they might as well not be using shields. Once they are crittable a shield won’t last more than a few seconds. But I have a real treat for that one second cast time it’s an incap.

Lord_Eomer

DrScott59 wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

We believe choices between damage output and survivability make combat more interesting."

Please find a way to do it other than adding cast times. Cast times make for horrible combat -- or shelving of skills.

How about "When your shield is up, your abilities and weapons do 10% less damage." That would allow reactionary use of defense, but do exactly what you desire -- trim damage output when survivability is buffed.

Better yet, why not just address the REAL complaint and prevent stacking of multiple shields. Lots of suggested ways to do that in the thread above, so I won't repeat them here.

I can't think of a worse way to address the problem than adding cast time. Please revert.

There is no need for less damage while shield is up, these concepts are bad and make class weaker only.

Shields can now crit which seems to be enough nerf!

Destary

My ideas :

-Not add a cast time on shield. Now players can crit on shield and resistances increase shields.
-Don't nerf the dark exchange, you nerfed it when you up the time for cast it.
-Inscrease the damage of crystal frag, you nerfed it by 10% but why ? Look at stamina damage and tankyness.
-Overload now isn't a 3rd bar or other, just need to click to ultimate key for throw one ball of shock

All my ideas are only for PVP, the magsorc need to be competitive in PVE too, but idk what can be good for that.

Didgerion

Sandman929 wrote: »

I'm just amazed at the huge red rubber balls of players telling class creators how the class is supposed to function simply because that's how they're played currently.

The thing is that the class creators are not within the project anymore....so we tell them how we play it because they don't play it and you can tell it easily by their solution to add 1s cast time and resistance to shields.

Even @ZOS_RobGarrett admitted that they are monitoring it.
wtf? you don't need to monitor it! -just jump on the class and start playing!

Nicko_Lps

Destary wrote: »

My ideas :

-Not add a cast time on shield. Now players can crit on shield and resistances increase shields.
-Don't nerf the dark exchange, you nerfed it when you up the time for cast it.
-Inscrease the damage of crystal frag, you nerfed it by 10% but why ? Look at stamina damage and tankyness.
-Overload now isn't a 3rd bar or other, just need to click to ultimate key for throw one ball of shock

All my ideas are only for PVP, the magsorc need to be competitive in PVE too, but idk what can be good for that.

Critable shields + resistance will never work on a magsorc with light armor.

10k is light armor phys resistance
5k+ the penetration from supAttack debuff
4k penetration from spriggans

You will take crits with 1000 armor. Means? 10k+ surprise attacks that is the most wet dream of all forum whineblades.


Either way, sorc is way underpowered atm compared to other classes, using heavy armor will make sorcs last 4-5 more hits before die and using light armor will force sorcs to ONLY cast shields vs good players.


Critable shields or Cast time on shields any of them or both is uninstall for me.

Quasaur

I tried a few things I like to do on the Live game in the PTS. It's certainly much more challenging, but I wasn't one of the people asking for greater difficulty. I haven't finished vMA or a single vet DLC.

My feedback is split into PvP and PvE with a magsorc focus.

PvP: I can kill other magsorcs, unless they pull out something strange like dw. The other classes have the use of all their limbs and have no trouble kicking a class with only one arm and no legs. It seems you'd like magsorcs to use pets and block more. Who blocks? Tanks. So, I attempted to build a magicka tank with full Impen traits and max resistance. I ran out of resources very quickly and my pets died before they could be useful. I lowered the resistance to have the tiniest bit of damage, and since I feel the need for shields, I used a shield glyph on ice staff, slotted a Psijic ult, and took a 1h&s shield ability while wearing Infernal Guardian. It's not enough damage to get anywhere, sustain is non-existent and it's difficult to use the pets when they're needed, and there's just not enough resistance or health to survive. I plan to try health regen, next. It's too bad the Twilight can heal both herself and the Clannfear, but the Clannfear has some feud with the Twilight and refuses to send a heal her way.

I don't suppose you could adjust the class passives to help out the new heavy-armour survival requirement? Light armour is about as attractive as mud. Perhaps favour something other than crit damage to heal, because there won't be much crit'ing with the new wardrobe. Also, it took 4 bar spaces to have a healing skill; one pet was to be a backup for when the other healing skill died. Most other classes can slot a heal in a single space! What efficiency! My wish-list also includes better class resource regen.

In the Live game, I don't know who these over-performing sorcerers are that made the class changes necessary, but I find two shields is a must as anyone with over 14k dps (now 7k in Cyro) absolutely melts them faster than I can put them up. It's a good thing they can't see how the shields are holding up or they'd know how close to death I usually am and they might focus harder on me. I also find it difficult (but embarrassing when it happens and I wasn't paying attention) to die to a magsorc using the trademark burst. Purge the initial set up and they need to start their rotation all over again and laugh as they waste an ult.

PvE: It is frustrating to try and bar swap or use another skill and be unable to do so because the shield is still being squatted out. However, if the shield does arrive in time, it will be useful, and to accidentally cancel it would lead to even more deaths. I miss the old, reliable shields. A longer duration isn't as important as having it when it's needed. It's also very frustrating to have a timer for a shield, have the pets die because there was no shield for them and have to wait for the pets to be summoned and a longer timer, if interrupted.

I get 10% less dps with the new Overload compared to the Atro. This may be different for other people. Please don't use this as an excuse to adjust the Atro to make Overload more attractive. The Atro still works.

The pet changes are very nice. Now, I only need to heavy attack twice per rotation!

Dark Deal/Conversion: I try to avoid skills that take far too long to use that don't benefit me much.

Sorc as tank/healer/dps: Is it really so appalling to the devs to support such a notion? Hah, sorcerers, thinking they can tank, heal, or dps when someone needs to be the banker class. it'd be nice if a sorcerer tank offered something useful that the other classes didn't do better, that a sorcerer healer could be useful, and if our dps wasn't held back by resource problems. Now that magsorcs will be busy healing themselves or dying and letting everyone in a group down, it remains to be seen what is left for dps.

I must say it is amazing that the sorc class has such suction power that the free proc for DK whips and NB spectral bow costs now because our crystal frags proc could never be free.

While I did make another character in a class that I find more enjoyable to play, I find the upcoming changes to the way my first character plays annoying enough that I remember I'm getting upset over a game and that I really should just go play some of my fun new games. My voice is just one, after all.

Rak_am

CritsTheBed wrote: »

I will continue playing occasionally but for free. 15 character slots maxed, bank maxed, storage maxed. Combine that with poor performance, terrible balancing, why would I as a customer give zenimax online studios any of my money for anything? The only reason I subbed as long as I have is because I enjoyed the game and had some faith in the people behind the scenes but this kind of" balance" is not something I enjoy and shows me that this company does not deserve my money bc they obviously don't understand their own game.

Remember all the bad press eso had from the start? It seems as if you've pulled away from that despite the performance issues because eso is pretty fun at times and you have a lot of people hooked on it lately. But these changes coupled with the same poor game performance we've had for years will be what you're publicly known for yet again. I like many others will bash this game to a point where Superbowl ads won't save you.

Eso isn't an amazing must have title in 2018. Performance is horrible a lot of times, the dlcs aren't exactly groundbreaking and the class balance seems made up from people who don't own computers. So if you can't fixed the performance, at least don't introduce game breaking mechanics into the mix again.

Zenimax, you will lose more than you will gain from this. New dlc is meh at best so instead of going for yet another quick grab on dlcs, maybe please the customers who have paid and supported you because without them there would be no you.

totally agree with this.

joaaocaampos

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know we've been monitoring the feedback on this thread and elsewhere on the forums. Clearly there's a lot of concern around the impact of adding a cast time to Conjured Ward and Annulment.

First I'd like to talk about our motivation with the change. We believe choices between damage output and survivability make combat more interesting. There are a number of areas within our system that could better adhere to this philosophy, but these self-cast damage shield abilities stood out as being particularly out of line. It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation. This applied to both PvE and PvP scenarios.

The addition of a cast time makes that choice between damage output and survivability more deliberate and strategic. However, as many of you have pointed out, there are several potential issues with this solution. We identified many of these risks prior to PTS, and we're actively monitoring feedback from the community, Class Reps, and PTS testers.

If we decide to make significant changes to the abilities, those changes would not appear until at least PTS 3. However, we agree Conjured Ward and Annulment are too easy to interrupt in PvP, so we'll be making both spells immune to interrupts for PTS 2. We'll also be meeting with the Class Reps next week to discuss the changes.

In the meantime, we encourage you to continue experimenting, evaluating, and providing feedback.

@ZOS_RobGarrett Instead of increasing cast time, you could increase the cost, just as you did with Healing Ritual. The same cost.

• Annulment costs have been increased to 7290 Magicka from 4590 Magicka. There is also the equivalent for Conjured Ward.

mlsweet

code65536 wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know we've been monitoring the feedback on this thread and elsewhere on the forums. Clearly there's a lot of concern around the impact of adding a cast time to Conjured Ward and Annulment.

First I'd like to talk about our motivation with the change. We believe choices between damage output and survivability make combat more interesting. There are a number of areas within our system that could better adhere to this philosophy, but these self-cast damage shield abilities stood out as being particularly out of line. It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation. This applied to both PvE and PvP scenarios.

The addition of a cast time makes that choice between damage output and survivability more deliberate and strategic. However, as many of you have pointed out, there are several potential issues with this solution. We identified many of these risks prior to PTS, and we're actively monitoring feedback from the community, Class Reps, and PTS testers.

If we decide to make significant changes to the abilities, those changes would not appear until at least PTS 3. However, we agree Conjured Ward and Annulment are too easy to interrupt in PvP, so we'll be making both spells immune to interrupts for PTS 2. We'll also be meeting with the Class Reps next week to discuss the changes.

In the meantime, we encourage you to continue experimenting, evaluating, and providing feedback.

@ZOS_RobGarrett There were so many ways to nerf shields without adding a cast time. And no, cast time does not and has not ever made combat "more interesting".

A "shield fatigue" system where subsequent casts would be less effective or more costly would've worked far better.

But I want to highlight your view that shields are "out of line" in PvE by asking you a question: How many devs have attempted vCR +3? Are you aware of the kind of damage spikes there are in that trial? Are you aware that if a Malicious Strike picks you as its random target while you are stacked for a Roaring Flare, that you are dead if you don't have a shield? Are you aware that if multiple Malicious Strikes target you (again, they are random), that they will wipe you out in less than a second if you don't have a shield? None of this is something that people can heal through. And we are already asking people to run more health in vCR than in other trials.

There are many players who main stamina, who prefer stamina, and they are forced to come as magicka for certain content, precisely because there is so much damage where damage shields are the only viable solution. So, no, I take special objection to your comment about PvE and suspect that your dev team that wipes in normal Cloudrest is probably wildly out of touch with with what kinds of challenges we are faced with in vet DLC content.

I don't do a lot of vet trials, but I have seen a lot of healers reiterate this.

The same can be said of shields in PvP. Unless you are planning to increase the strength of shields, the added duration is a total non factor. The cast time is inexplainable, and greatly counter intuitive to the fast paced style of the game.

If you are under pressure as a mag build using shields, you pretty much have to cast one shield after the next, much like as if you were a stamina build blocking, or roll dodging over and over again. Not enough time to do anything else but actively defend yourself.

In my 3 years or so of magicka experience, I could reliably stack my shields vs 1 competent opponent, while wearing a magicka regeneration set, such as lich, seducer, or shacklebreaker (with min max on enchants to provide proper regen).

In this context, I was built defensively. Shields were reliable on the magicka side of the equation as regen was a focus; but I was far from invincible. Competent players knew, that if I were CC'd enough, I would run out of stamina, and that I could not recast my shields, and would thus be exposed in light armor.

Viola! Now everyone knows how to kill a shield stacker! Counter play!

And that's great, there should always be tools for each class to compete with one another.

However, given the direction of the next balance update, I will spend more time highlighting my take on stamina vs magicka builds.

Stamina builds have exceptionally better mobility. Streak is a terrible, unsustainable option to escape a fight, or to "gap close" vs actual gap closers and swift builds, while they have things like evasion and FM to remove snares and keep moving. It is a no-brainer which is far superior.

So then, post update 20, what is there to do once an opponent has made contact with you, the magicka user? If you can't run, and can't defend yourself with shields reliably, you are simply defenseless in light armor. No counterplay.

So, here are the few options I see when playing PvP post update:

(A) Unsub in protest to an apparently out of touch development team (Sorry guys).

Or...

(B) Actively provide ESO's forums with more posts from magicka players about how "balanced" the game is (in PvP), courtesy of already superior, pre-update 20 stamina toons.

I don't wish (A), as I love this game. And I don't wish for (B), a dull and unchallenging combat experience.

I know that game balancing is a moving target, but a good place to start would be to delve into the game yourselves ZOS, all the way to its highest levels, for BOTH PvP and PvE. Humble yourselves and walk the paths you have created! Or at the very least employ professionals you can work with that have done so. The class reps are a great start, and if they remain objective to the games balance, will be critical to the games future success.

Also, please note that in the current state of the game, changing mechanics for one side (PvP/PvE) has consequences effecting the other. Potentially huge consequences. Like adding a channel time to shields, with or without an interrupt, if that idea originated from PvE talks.

Separating the two might be the best long term solution. Maybe you guys can find a reasonable way to balance without doing that.

Either way, the community is anxiously awaiting the day that we don't have to come to the forums because we don't know what else to do with our frustration with overperforming sets and jaw-dropping class "balances".

P.S. I apologize if I come off as inconsiderate or harsh. I will tell you now ZOS, that I love what you guys have created, it is an excellent game that I and many others have obviously fallen in love with. I personally wouldn't play it, invest in it, or come to the forums to provide feedback if it were anything less. I speak for myself and likely many others (even if they wouldn't admit it) when I say we are so critical because we love what you have given us.

That being said, this is a business and service that we pay for, and we deserve to know this game is in good hands; the hands of a team that truly knows their product inside and out, and can provide the game with exciting and fair developments that the community deserves and can get excited about.

Somewhere

So this post is almost definitely going to be buried underneath all of the people crying about Ward nerfs, but I'm going to get it off my chest. I'm calling just @Tasear specifically because honestly out of the class representatives I see them the most active on the forums and "taking notes" the most. I appreciate all the work you do just as a volunteer.

I think we, and I include myself here, have relied a lot upon shields for our defensive abilities. This isn't entirely unfair though, as shields were simply our easiest and most effective way to mitigate damage directly. If you go down a checklist of things you want in a defensive ability you have nearly all of them: Conjured Ward was fast, strong, scaled off your offensive stats, easy to use, and relatively cheap. A lot of our other defensive abilities are either not that great, or just a pain to use. Based on the Dev response from this morning, I'm pretty sure they have no intention of reverting the cast time on shields, so I suppose now is a good of time as any to actually look at why we are worried about such a nerf to a strong ability, and what other skills we have to mitigate this nerf.

Of all of our skills, these are the few that I feel are truly designed to avoid or mitigate damage in way that isn't simply, kill the enemy fast than it kills you. These are specific to just Sorcerer. My biggest pain points/suggestions are bolded if you want to ignore my text wall.

• Dark Exchange
• Unstable Clannfear
• Twilight Matriarch
• Conjured Ward
• Bound Armor
• Lightning Form
• Surge
• Bolt Escape

One could argue that Encase and Rune Prison could belong on this list, but they simply prevent the enemy from hitting you instead of actively mitigating incoming damage. So I chose not to include them for this discussion. From here let's go down the list of what we have available. I will mostly talk about QoL changes here, not straight buffs. A lot of our skills are good in terms of raw numbers, but we don't use them because they don't feel good to use.

Dark Exchange is strong as a heal but comes with a cast time. This is because it offers(ed) a lot of resources and healing up front. This skill suffers the same problems shields do now. Channeled skills interrupt the flow of a rotation (read: not fun to use), and this one in particular is clunky. This is literally the same reason why we all ignore Crystal Blast and use Crystal Fragments procs instead. This skill needs to be more fluid to use. I think there's a lot of ways you could improve this skill potentially. I think the first and best way would be to remove the .2 second "blending time" added on a the end of this skill. Compare the Live version of Crystal Fragments and PTS version which just got a similar change on the instant cast, and it makes a world of a difference. We can animation cancel at the end of almost every other skill, even these new wards, why must we wait through the entire animation here?

Clannfear/Matriarch both suffer from the same issues. PTS 1 helped alleviate the fact that the casting cost on these were so high. However it doesn't really touch on any of the real issues that pets face. Pets take up 2 bar slots. One could argue that this is because they function as a means to soak up damage from enemies, deal some damage, and offer utility. Whether or not that is worth them taking up 2 bars to slot is really up in the air and for each individual player to decide. However what isn't really in the air is that the AI on pets is woefully simple. A pet can't do the same thing a real player can do, they can't think. The problem is that the game treat pets as if they are a real player. They trigger mechanics such as Chain Lightning in vAA, and Sorcerers have no way of effectively controlling them on console. On PC we can only tell them to attack or pull back. I think a more advanced control scheme is probably out of the question since consoles do not have enough buttons. That said, at the very least these pets need to ignore many boss mechanics basically. I can't tell my pet to avoid a one shot mechanic, so why am I punished for running one? In PvP this problem is exacerbated by the fact that you're fighting an intelligent opponent that can focus specifically on your pet, absolutely decimating your utility and damage. With the long cast times, you're now out of what costed you 2 slots. Rework the Rebate passive a la Crystal Fragments so when your pet dies you can summon it again for half cost as an instant cast. Give it a cooldown.

Bound Armor is honestly way too unfocused of a skill in my opinion. The light attack damage and resource passive increase tells me this is a DPS skill. The block mitigation tells me this is a damage mitigation skill. The fact that it increases block mitigation is great and all, but it has never really screamed "Sorcerer" to me. If you changed the name and made this a DK skill, I wouldn't even blink. Sorcerer for the longest time was seemingly about avoiding damage or using shields to avoid it, so what is this "stand your ground" blocking skill doing here? I think the Devs would point to this skill first for the Sorcerer's ability to mitigate damage. We scream "where is our OS skill?" The Devs say "here it is, cast this and block". I barely consider using it. A shield casts instantly and my damage is mitigated. This skill costs more than a shield, doesn't last as long, doesn't mitigate as much damage, and requires 2 actions to work (cast, then block). One could argue this is fair because it also passively gives stats. This skill needs to have a longer duration to be taken seriously; a reduced cost would not be out of the question as well.

Lightning Form gives Major Ward, Major Resolve, and Minor Expedition in addition to dealing damage at close range. That's a lot from one skill. Major Ward and Major Resolve aren't anything to write home about since everyone gets that, but it's definitely something that we should be looking into when dealing with dying. Thing is, we are all double barring bound armor to keep those dps buffs up. Stamina users have to have this skill because they literally have nothing else. Magicka Sorcerers have very little room as it is. The damage it deals is very low, and we don't want to be in melee range anyway, so other than to proc Implosion, the damage is basically flavor text. I've maintained that this skill should have the passive resource bonus instead of Bound Armor having it and place the Major Ward/Resolve on Bound Armor, as this focuses the skills and brings them both more in line with ZOS' new philosophy of "damage vs survivability". Ultimately there's nothing wrong here though, we're just starved for bar space and can barely afford it while keeping up with the damage output of other classes.

Surge is a great skill, but most people don't bother slotting it because we can get Major Sorcery and Major Brutality from potions. The secondary effect doesn't do anything unless you're actively damaging an enemy, and even then you must land a crit. In terms of survivability alone, I don't really see much more you can do with this skill without making it the mess it used to be. (For newer players it used to heal you for a % of the crit and the heal portion didn't have a cooldown, essentially giving you unlimited healing with high enough crit + aoe damage).

Bolt Escape should be a class defining skill. When I think Sorcerer, I should think "they're the ones with the magicka based dodge". When I see incoming damage, I should be able to avoid it via Bolt Escape instead of just shielding and tanking the damage. What's the problem here? In theory this skill is amazing, but the execution is poor. If this skill were properly executed I think Bolt Escape would be the Sorcerer's answer to OS damage. Essentially this should be a Magicka dodge, but it's not. I see a lot of people complain about the stacking cost and want it removed. I don't think that's the proper fix. Dodging has an increased cost associated with it, and yet dodging works just fine. The problem with Bolt Escape is that it sends you flying off in a single direction, doesn't maintain your momentum like dodging does, and maintains your z position until the end of animation, where you stop moving at the end and drop to your new z position if you're in the air. Bolt Escape needs to maintain your momentum and function like a dodge. If you cast it while standing still it moves forward, but if you are strafing, I want it to move me in the direction I'm moving, not where I'm looking. If I cast this down a hill I want to follow the hill/stair's angle, not go flying off it and drop straight down. Ball of Lightning should remove snares, and dodge/avoid damage and projectiles. Basically I think it should function like how a dodge does, but uses magicka instead. It is not out of the question to ask for this since we use up a valuable skill slot just to use it. Streak should not provide those same benefits, but should provide a slightly longer stun so that it can be used more offensively. These changes fall in line with ZOS' new philosophy of damage vs survivability.

tl;dr: With shields being nerfed, sorcerers need to look at our other defensive options, but ZOS needs to look at them because there's a lot of QoL changes that could be happening here. Suppose this really belongs in the other sorcerer feedback thread. Oh well.