PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Itemization & New Item Sets

Lord_Eomer

Masel92 wrote: »

I spend the evening yesterday to test these new weapons, and I got to the conclusion that I only see a few niche scenarios where a few of them they could be used over other weapons and sets. I'll go through them weapon by weapon and note why. Please post more feedback on them, I will use this thread to give them condesned fedback on all of these in our meeting next week.

Blackrose Two-hander:

While it's been stated that this is the favourite weapon for some of the devs, it is fairly weak. Not only is the radius quite small, it also is simply weaker than the master counterpart in every regard. With the master twohander, you get a shield, a bleed dot, can hit more enemies and do more damage against them. In PvP only a few classes use dizzying swing because they lack a good spammable alternative, and this weapon will not change this. In PvE, it is subpar due to all the reasons i listed above.

Blackrose Bow:

This one was interesting for me at first (combined with the range increase on scatter shot), but its functionality is again quite counterintuitive. Since the bleed dot is scaling with the damage it does, it does exactly the counterpart of what bleeds were designed to do: hit hard against high resistance enemies. This way, it does exactly the opposite: It kills enemies with low resistances fast from full range (since the damage of the initial hit is high against these), but doesn't do a lot against tanky enemies. It also increases the eficiency of the low risk high reward sniper playstye in pvp even more, since they can now snipe + scattershot you from full range and make sure their snipe hits you unguarded and have it apply a bleed dot on top of the poisoning. I see this being used, but not really in healthy way.

Blackrose Dual Wield:

The dual wield is quite bad. Yes, major protection is a potent buff, but three seconds is very short and will not save you from anything in pvp, since you have to actively use this skill. Blade cloak is an expensive skill, and basically spamming it every three seconds to keep the buff up drains your resources very very fast. In pve this weapon is obviously not gonna be used, since you'd be giving up quite a bit of damage for it and stamina has access to the aoe damage reduction through shuffle/elude now, which is more effective in terms of cost/benefit than blade cloak.

Blackrose Destruction staff:

I was excited when I saw this one, but the functionality completely kills it. Impulse is an aoe spammable for magicka classes. Well, spamming it with this weapon active will make the weapon do nothing. The first dot tick comes after three seconds, and then ticks every other three seconds for three ticks in total. Not only is that a bad dot design (since dots that hardly ever tick don't proc things, they are likely tobe cleansed before they do damage etc.), it also doesnt add up with any rotation in pve. EVERY magicka rotation is 8 seconds due tt elemental blockade, and performing the rotation will make you miss out on the last dot tick of this weapon if you plan on using it as an additional DoT. If this weapon generated ticks faster (one per second, or even multiple smaller ones) it would add a nice DoT to magicka classes that you can use to get more elemental damage in. The way it is now is underperforming and I don't see this being used, not even in trash mobs since, as pointed out before, you can NOT spam impulse and get damage from the DoTs.

Blackrose Restoration Staff:

I know it was designed for pve, but this weapon is not gonna be used in PvE. Master and Asylum Restoration Staff would outperform this basically anywhere, and even if they weren'T there, healers use olorime restos now. It is a PvP weapon for magicka classes that use healing ward as an emergency heal+shield, simple as that. I see this being used on builds, so this one is fine as it is.

Blackrose One-handed and Shield:

This one could be used on stamina builds in PvP (and one 4th Boss vHoF ), but again, I don't see it outperforming other setups. The reduced cost on shield charge is fine, but then limiting the next free skill to a one-hand and shield skill is very restrictive. It also forces you to slot shield charge AND another one-hand and shield ability, which many builds don't do, and will not do only for this weapon to work.


Cheers,

Masel

Indeed very good observations,

ZOS should learn something from players like you.

Hamburglarjones

The Asylum destruction staff isn't working again, very alike how it was on live after the Balorgh change.

The spell strategist set can only be used by one person on a target. If an ally wearing the set light attacks an enemy after my mark has been placed on the enemy, my mark is removed along with the buff it was giving me.

Would be nice if these were fixed!

Skander

Soldier of Anguish item set

It's too strong. The "healing negated" doesn't scale with ballespirit. This means that every 4 seconds, two people can negate 11k of healing. Which is absurd

josh.lackey_ESO

Remove Shield Breaker.

PureEnvelope35

Soldier of Anguish (Medium)
2: Weapon Damage
3: Weapon Critical
4: Weapon Damage
5: When you deal damage with a melee attack, you have a 25% chance to traumatize your enemy, negating their next 5500 points of healing for 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

Wow another set that's probably gonna go live and screw all of us for 3 months!

Gravord

LiquidPony wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Spell Strategist is way too good, its perma uptime 500 sp for magicka users. Beats any other power set for nuking down targets. CD on proc should be increased or set nerfed in other way. Compare to Ravager uptime and difference is rather brutal.

Depends on the class. A stamplar can keep Ravager up 80%+, which is 504WD on average with higher burst.

So one very specific class with one very specific skill can get uptime 80% while rest have a quarter of it. While this set gives flat out 500sp with 100% uptime long as you hold a stick. Its almost double the stats of Julianos with same uptime.

Strider__Roshin

olsborg wrote: »

Please redo the entire Soldier of Anguish set, its too strong for pvp and make it the stamina equivalent of Spell Strategist, with weapon dmg.

I'd be 100% okay with this change!

Gravord

Daus wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Please redo the entire Soldier of Anguish set, its too strong for pvp and make it the stamina equivalent of Spell Strategist, with weapon dmg.

I'd be 100% okay with this change!

Then we would have still 2 overperforming sets Better than sload 2.0 but still op with best power buff avaiable.

Strider__Roshin

Gravord wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Please redo the entire Soldier of Anguish set, its too strong for pvp and make it the stamina equivalent of Spell Strategist, with weapon dmg.

I'd be 100% okay with this change!

Then we would have still 2 overperforming sets Better than sload 2.0 but still op with best power buff avaiable.

Hey if both magicka and stamina have it, is it really OP?

Strider__Roshin

Blackrose Weapon Feedback

Bow: because the initial damage mitigated by resistances, the bleed is quite pitiful. At the minimum the % should be increased from 40% to 60% in my opinion.

Gravord

Daus wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Please redo the entire Soldier of Anguish set, its too strong for pvp and make it the stamina equivalent of Spell Strategist, with weapon dmg.

I'd be 100% okay with this change!

Then we would have still 2 overperforming sets Better than sload 2.0 but still op with best power buff avaiable.

Hey if both magicka and stamina have it, is it really OP?

It is comparing to survival ESO already have rather massive advantage of dps over survival and in many cases its coming to the border of shooter games where person who fire first and get 2 hits landing can end fight in his favor. Leaves little tactical mmo play imho.
Would rather see both of this sets toned down or revamped.

Savos_Saren

Daus wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Please redo the entire Soldier of Anguish set, its too strong for pvp and make it the stamina equivalent of Spell Strategist, with weapon dmg.

I'd be 100% okay with this change!

Then we would have still 2 overperforming sets Better than sload 2.0 but still op with best power buff avaiable.

Hey if both magicka and stamina have it, is it really OP?

Please, no. To both sets existing. You know how Cyrodiil is already filled with bow light attack spammers? Imagine this set on a bow user. They'll spam light attack and Poison Injection.

I can already see this set being abused on MagBlades who wear Zaan. *pop out of stealth and use a light attack* *Zaan procs* *use crippling grasp* *spam execute*

Rinse and repeat.

Rianai

I'd rather have those magblades wear Spell Strategist instead of Caluurion ...
500 spell dmg is strong, but nothing crazy when compared to what proc sets can provide and this set also has downsides (doesn't buff heals, weak for aoe/against multiple players), so i don't think it is op (and i wouldn't mind a stam version either).

SodanTok

Blackrose Bow feedback:

Interesting concept, bad execution. The initial damage of scatter shot is simply too small already (which is fine, its CC) so basing the DoT on 40% damage done just results in very weak ticks against blocking or high resistance targets.

Also, untested, I hope it doesnt double dip with battle spirit or its literally useless.

DeadlyRecluse

Just change Soldier of Anguish already.

Even if it doesn't turn out to be the OMG OP L2P set it's getting hyped as, it'll still have that reputation and be the source of endless forum threads for the next 3 months.

One Blackrose weapon stand out as odd: the 2H. The Blackrose 2H modifies to a potent single target skill and gives it a weak AOE. That's super underwhelming and not very compelling. I want my modified wrecking blow to MESS UP my target, not tickle his firends.

ChunkyCat

technohic wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Soldier of Anguish (Medium)

2: Weapon Damage
3: Weapon Critical
4: Weapon Damage
5: When you deal damage with a melee attack, you have a 25% chance to traumatize your enemy, negating their next 5500 points of healing for 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

My concern is that this set has the potential to have easy 100% uptime (it can proc constantly in a "loop" - last for 4 seconds and can proc every 4 seconds - 25% chance is quite a lot) - effectively reducing ALL healing that your enemy can have leaving almost ZERO counter play. Might be even worse than sload set.

that's effectively 5500 damage every 4 seconds that's unmitigated. its proactive oblivion damage.

We’ll all give insight telling the Devs that this is wayyyyy over powered.

They’ll read our insights and say “thank you, we’ll take that into consideration.”

The set will go live as it is now. It will be wayyyyy overpowered. Those of us paying attention will strive to get it, use it, and dominate with it.

The ensuing months will see the forums having topic after topic about how OP this set is. Months later, in the next major update, it will finally be nerfed.

After the nerf, ZoS will begin developing the next wayyy overpowered set.

C’est la vis.

DeadlyRecluse

ChunkyCat wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Soldier of Anguish (Medium)

2: Weapon Damage
3: Weapon Critical
4: Weapon Damage
5: When you deal damage with a melee attack, you have a 25% chance to traumatize your enemy, negating their next 5500 points of healing for 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

My concern is that this set has the potential to have easy 100% uptime (it can proc constantly in a "loop" - last for 4 seconds and can proc every 4 seconds - 25% chance is quite a lot) - effectively reducing ALL healing that your enemy can have leaving almost ZERO counter play. Might be even worse than sload set.

that's effectively 5500 damage every 4 seconds that's unmitigated. its proactive oblivion damage.

We’ll all give insight telling the Devs that this is wayyyyy over powered.

They’ll read our insights and say “thank you, we’ll take that into consideration.”

The set will go live as it is now. It will be wayyyyy overpowered. Those of us paying attention will strive to get it, use it, and dominate with it.

The ensuing months will see the forums having topic after topic about how OP this set is. Months later, in the next major update, it will finally be nerfed.

After the nerf, ZoS will begin developing the next wayyy overpowered set.

C’est la vis.

This one has a chance of being adjusted proactively. It's not behind any paywalls, so there's no real need for it to be OP for a DLC cycle in order to push volume.

Septimus_Magna

ChunkyCat wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Soldier of Anguish (Medium)

2: Weapon Damage
3: Weapon Critical
4: Weapon Damage
5: When you deal damage with a melee attack, you have a 25% chance to traumatize your enemy, negating their next 5500 points of healing for 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

My concern is that this set has the potential to have easy 100% uptime (it can proc constantly in a "loop" - last for 4 seconds and can proc every 4 seconds - 25% chance is quite a lot) - effectively reducing ALL healing that your enemy can have leaving almost ZERO counter play. Might be even worse than sload set.

that's effectively 5500 damage every 4 seconds that's unmitigated. its proactive oblivion damage.

We’ll all give insight telling the Devs that this is wayyyyy over powered.

They’ll read our insights and say “thank you, we’ll take that into consideration.”

The set will go live as it is now. It will be wayyyyy overpowered. Those of us paying attention will strive to get it, use it, and dominate with it.

The ensuing months will see the forums having topic after topic about how OP this set is. Months later, in the next major update, it will finally be nerfed.

After the nerf, ZoS will begin developing the next wayyy overpowered set.

C’est la vis.

It will work pretty good on good 'ol Stamblade with major defile from Incap and minor defile from the disease enchant. Lets see how long people last without healing, even BoL spamming Templar healbots wont be able to heal through this combo.

Feanor

Daus wrote: »

Blackrose Weapon Feedback

Bow: because the initial damage mitigated by resistances, the bleed is quite pitiful. At the minimum the % should be increased from 40% to 60% in my opinion.

So stamina should be able to deal high damage from the safety of range. Got it.

Blackrose Bow:

This one was interesting for me at first (combined with the range increase on scatter shot), but its functionality is again quite counterintuitive. Since the bleed dot is scaling with the damage it does, it does exactly the counterpart of what bleeds were designed to do: hit hard against high resistance enemies. This way, it does exactly the opposite: It kills enemies with low resistances fast from full range (since the damage of the initial hit is high against these), but doesn't do a lot against tanky enemies. It also increases the eficiency of the low risk high reward sniper playstye in pvp even more, since they can now snipe + scattershot you from full range and make sure their snipe hits you unguarded and have it apply a bleed dot on top of the poisoning. I see this being used, but not really in healthy way.

@Masel92 has it right.

Lord_Eomer

Blackrose arena Item Sets run are very incompetent, give us a reason to have this set. Under current sets stats, i may not even do Blackrose prison arena.

Drygon

Not sure where i should give this feedback so i will leave it here as it seems the apropiate category.
Been playing arround with Shadowrend seeing that Maw got buffed and i realized that on live i do not see a lot of players using them.

Seeing as you were willing to fix the problem of the Maw flames hit-box, i will give those sugestions for further improvement.

Maw of the infernal: Does great DMG but the presence is not consistent, i would rather see a DMG decrease from the set and an increase in proc chance to 15% or even 20% from light and heavy attacks.

Shadowrend: This one is a really cool one, it has been done quite well, i really like the animation it has when it spawns but it does not see a lot of play. Hence some changes might help that at least could be tried here on PTS to see how they perform: A 8% proc on damage done(i know before it was based on dmg done) might help with the consistency of the summon and it is good both for tanks and others builds making its way into more diverse builds. Also compared to Daedroth Flamethrower the AOE of the Shadowrend could as well be nonexisting, it barely hit any mobs and it wont hit mobs nor players unless they are stationary, and that is fine as it it a tail swipe so it si close range, but.
I kited mobs arround to see if it does something else, even targeted mobs in distance and the pet just ran in melee to target them. I sugest the pet gets the jump ability other Clanfear have dealing aoe dmg (same as light attack) apply minor maim and maybe slow for 30% for 3 seconds(as root, stun, or knockup would be too much). Overlall DMG wise it does quite well. The jump ability should be used when the pet is at X meters away from the target the player is targeting. I realise it is not a full pet and so we can not control it with pet targeting, but i think at least it should focus the target we are focusing and allow us to decide where and on whom we need the maim debuf and the Damage on.

OrphanHelgen

PureEnvelope35 wrote: »

Soldier of Anguish (Medium)
2: Weapon Damage
3: Weapon Critical
4: Weapon Damage
5: When you deal damage with a melee attack, you have a 25% chance to traumatize your enemy, negating their next 5500 points of healing for 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

Tested this with a few friends, whoever thought of this set really has to rethink their life choices.....

Does this count towards hp regen as well?
Does it mean that the player who gets this debuf, wont be able to heal others as well since it say "negating their next 5500 points of healing" ?

mb10

I feel like the Blackrose Destruction staff could do with a slight buff.

Perhaps 5000 damage from each element instead of 3333
OR
the element of the staff youre wielding to do slightly more damage

Savos_Saren

Feanor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Blackrose Weapon Feedback

Bow: because the initial damage mitigated by resistances, the bleed is quite pitiful. At the minimum the % should be increased from 40% to 60% in my opinion.

So stamina should be able to deal high damage from the safety of range. Got it.

Blackrose Bow:

This one was interesting for me at first (combined with the range increase on scatter shot), but its functionality is again quite counterintuitive. Since the bleed dot is scaling with the damage it does, it does exactly the counterpart of what bleeds were designed to do: hit hard against high resistance enemies. This way, it does exactly the opposite: It kills enemies with low resistances fast from full range (since the damage of the initial hit is high against these), but doesn't do a lot against tanky enemies. It also increases the eficiency of the low risk high reward sniper playstye in pvp even more, since they can now snipe + scattershot you from full range and make sure their snipe hits you unguarded and have it apply a bleed dot on top of the poisoning. I see this being used, but not really in healthy way.

@Masel92 has it right.

Maybe ZOS could add a small passive on Light and Medium armor: Protects against ### bleed damage per second. That way- Light and Medium armor aren't suffering for what was intended purely for heavy armor builds.

NBrookus

mb10 wrote: »

I feel like the Blackrose Destruction staff could do with a slight buff.

Perhaps 5000 damage from each element instead of 3333
OR
the element of the staff youre wielding to do slightly more damage

I'm not sure this is a fix. It's a 9 second dot, which doesn't fit into rotations. And it ticks every 3 seconds, which also doesn't fit into rotations. And Minor Mangle doesn't work on bosses.

WuffyCerulei

The Grave-stake set looks good on paper, because it gives a lot of magicka and stamina back. I tested it by killing 100 NPCs, and it did spawn 18/100 or 18% of the time. That's higher than the 10% given. However, what I don't like about it is that it only stays for 6 seconds. In a high pace battle, it may be hard to see with everything going on. And you have to actually grab it. Melee may have an easier time grabbing stake. Btw you don't have to press anything. Just run to it. But range may not get to the stake in time to take advantage of the resources.
In the end, it's not a great set to base your sustain off, especially if you're range.

WuffyCerulei

I wanna give my feedback about some other sets coming with Murkmire.

Might of the Lost Legion Crafted Set
This set has potential to be a good dps set for both magicka and stamina dps, as we all use light attacks a lot. The issue is blocking to get the set bonus. We might not able to block, are in the middle of a rotation, out of stamina, or there's nothing to block. I would recommend that the bonus be procced by dealing a sort of damage, either damage over time or direct damage, and that there be a cooldown of like 10 seconds. That way it's way more viable as a dps set.

Spell Strategist Light Set
It's almost like Siroria's, but it's only procced by a light attack, not standing in a circle for a millennia. The spell damage is a bit high. Something like 300-400 would be more in line of sets like Burning Spellweave and Scathing Mage.

Soldier of Anguish Medium Set
The negated healing is too high. It's stronger than Borrowed Time, which is a casted skill and only debuffs people who are stunned. The proc chance is also too high. Lowering the healing debuff to less than half, lowering the proc chance, and increasing the cooldown is best. Also it apparently stacks from different players. That's not good.

Battalion Defender Heavy Set
The heal just seems too low, considering it's be less than 1000 with battle spirit, defiles, and whatnot.

SienneYviete

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I wanna give my feedback about some other sets coming with Murkmire.

Might of the Lost Legion Crafted Set
This set has potential to be a good dps set for both magicka and stamina dps, as we all use light attacks a lot. The issue is blocking to get the set bonus. We might not able to block, are in the middle of a rotation, out of stamina, or there's nothing to block. I would recommend that the bonus be procced by dealing a sort of damage, either damage over time or direct damage, and that there be a cooldown of like 10 seconds. That way it's way more viable as a dps set.

Spell Strategist Light Set
It's almost like Siroria's, but it's only procced by a light attack, not standing in a circle for a millennia. The spell damage is a bit high. Something like 300-400 would be more in line of sets like Burning Spellweave and Scathing Mage.

Soldier of Anguish Medium Set
The negated healing is too high. It's stronger than Borrowed Time, which is a casted skill and only debuffs people who are stunned. The proc chance is also too high. Lowering the healing debuff to less than half, lowering the proc chance, and increasing the cooldown is best. Also it apparently stacks from different players. That's not good.

Battalion Defender Heavy Set
The heal just seems too low, considering it's be less than 1000 with battle spirit, defiles, and whatnot.

Spell strategist doesn't perform as good in the real world, it's spell damage boost is fine. Only a single mark can be up at a time and only on one target at a time, unlike burning spellweave which procs it's bonus on yourself, anyone else using the set on the same target will remove and replace your mark. Besides use in duels in it's current state this set is pretty much useless.

Bergzorn

You could consider changing Soldier of Anguish to yield Minor Mangle with 100% uptime on a single target or Major Mangle with low uptime on a single target.

lucky_dutch

I would genuinely love to know what was going through the devs head when they came up with Anguish. The heavy-handed shield nerf has sent this one slightly under the radar but it's actually more damaging to PvP.

I would imagine this is in response to healers being a bit OP but they've completely overlooked the impact this has on DPS classes survivability. Gankblades will be uncounterable with this set.

Suggested actions to balance it (in order of preference):

1. DELETE
2. Affect only heals directed to other players (i.e. not self-heals)
3. Nerf numerically & make it unstackable