DK Fossilize, the next cc that needs to Die

Cadbury

So NBs ask for Sorc nerfs and Sorcs ask for DK nerfs?

I losing track of who blames who.

Maulkin

And here I am just wanting them to fix the lag in Cyro and sort out the BG queue system that has me waiting for 20 mins.

The cycle of buffs/nerfs is unending and its impact small in my enjoyment of the game. The lag tho...

HankTwo

I don't get why sorcs are not asking for buffs instead when they feel that their CC got 'gutted'. How are DK nerfs supposed to change that? Making stuns be dodgeable won't help magsorcs anyway, it will just indirectly buff stamblades. The root on the other hand is a core mechanic for mDK gameplay, so removing that would just 'gut' another CC.

Anethum

Artemiisia wrote: »

Well since you guys killed the rune cage, then its time to kill fossilize also

this skill requires two skills to counter, no other skill do that

time to nerf this also

dk have a very low high burst and execute potential.
also, this skill is melee.
it's not what was rune cage even close.
also resourse management on dk is really poor.
in such obstacles I don't see why it should be nerfed, it's fair for this class

Xvorg

Kadoin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the initial hard cc for fossilize but where this skill gets stupid is with the root after. The root after the stun is too strong. It allows magdk to just abuse ranged mag builds with no snare immunity. You end up stam drained standing in a snare bouncing your own attacks off wings until you die. This wasn't exactly a problem when chains was broke af and no one used it, now it's fixed they have and killer gap closer, range reflecting snare immunity, double cc stun, low cost leap ult with high damage and aoe stunting with killer range.... yeah magdk is strong.

Magdk is the most broken class to play against as a ranged character

Yes I play magdk before all you nerds rage to defend your class.

Sure, shock staff and force pulse cannot be used on PvP... oh, wait.

You know, I went shock staff on my mDK and I laugh at those noobs DK spamming wings, burt I laugh even harder at those potatoes using Flame staff against wings... like "what's their problem?"...

If you see DK, DO NOT use projectiles. As a sorc, just use pulse, curse, wrath and meteor/Soul assault. Do not use frags. Do not use clench. Is that so hard?

What if they are spamming absorb magic instead ?

Do you think a mDK can spam absorb magic? Last time I checked the M standed for magicka... so their stam pools is around 12-15k and they have to use that stam for blocking, dodgeroll and break free (some of them even use the shield gap closer)

Xvorg

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

All these DKs screaming that DK is a balanced class. LoL!

Wierd how DKs suddenly have immortal tank builds for Cyro
Wierd how DKs are main population in BGs atm
Wierd how DKs are the most represented in PvP in current patch
Wierd how DKs can build for pure dmg and still be tanky
Wierd how DKs can effectivly counter 2/3 of a Sorcs burst
Wierd how DKs can face tank 4+ people no matter what build.

And worst of all! Wierd how all DK mains scream it's all fine, when it obviously is not!

No.

If as a sorc you die to an 8 mts CC, then the problem is not the CC.

I rarely use fossilize on PvP, because most of the decent enemies use an inmo pot when see a DK. Potatoes, on the other hand, come to the forums.

First win a dueling tournament with magic sorc. Then come and commment in forums and teach other L2P.

Even sypher or kodi cannot do it , when sorc at its prime. Every magic sorc is noob.

Bunch of noob liars who shamelessly lie sorc is overpowered now . Almost 90 percent of the BGs are DKs, Warden & NBs. [/quote]

Question is, why do you fight a mDK in the same way you fight a NB or a Templar? Shock staff is there, force pulse is there. Curse, Wrath.

Before Summerset, Sorcs were able to kill mDKs without rune. Yes, frags stunned, but frags is the worst skill against any mDK. For what I remember, good ol' sorcs killed mDKs draining their stam. If the DK got close, mines and streak. If the DK used wings, full heavy with a shock staff with stam poison (using a flame staff against a mDK is idiotic), curse and pulse.

Those mechanics are still there.

Was it hard? Of course. Killing in this game has always been a hard thing to do except when ZoS decides to overbuff a skill without considerin the consecuences.

By the way, I also believe that rune was overbuffed and also overnerfed. It could have been nicely fixed by reducig it's range at 15-22 mts just like any gap closer. I mean, sorc has streak and can easily combine it with rune for a more than decent stun.

oxygen_thief

rune was buffed a year ago. before summerset sorcs were able to kill mdk with stun by rune.

Zardayne

Why are so many in this game so Anti-CC? I mean you folks are pushing this crap to just be just a dps race and that's all. How shallow is that?

ATomiX96

didnt zos nerf range on fossilize already like few patches ago? (dragon bones or so)

Cadbury

Zardayne wrote: »

Why are so many in this game so Anti-CC? I mean you folks are pushing this crap to just be just a dps race and that's all. How shallow is that?

Because CC doesn't look good on a leaderboard.

Artemiisia

Zardayne wrote: »

Why are so many in this game so Anti-CC? I mean you folks are pushing this crap to just be just a dps race and that's all. How shallow is that?

well I werent anit cc before they decided to nerf rune cage twice in two weeks, that was the last straw, especially when DKs now have the strongest CC ingame, thats even better then a cc ultimate called Negate

Zardayne

Cadbury wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Why are so many in this game so Anti-CC? I mean you folks are pushing this crap to just be just a dps race and that's all. How shallow is that?

Because CC doesn't look good on a leaderboard.

Haha you've got a good point!

moosegod

Good sorcs were already using rune cage to combo with meteor before it was ever changed. Then they buffed it and now a monkey could land the sorc combo. It's been reverted back to being similar post-buff and now can't be played around and doesn't guarantee a sorc an easy kill. I haven't seen anyone being wombo-comboed with fossilize. Prior a sorc pull of an easy combo from a mile away, a mdk has to be breathing on you to use its cc. So if you don't want to be fossilized stay just a few steps back from the poor dk.

Zardayne

Artemiisia wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Why are so many in this game so Anti-CC? I mean you folks are pushing this crap to just be just a dps race and that's all. How shallow is that?

well I werent anit cc before they decided to nerf rune cage twice in two weeks, that was the last straw, especially when DKs now have the strongest CC ingame, thats even better then a cc ultimate called Negate

I hear ya..they took my CC away (Magden)

I've just enjoyed the tactical side of CC in previous MMOs and I hate see them all being slowly removed in this one just for a DPS race.

Ragnarock41

Joy_Division wrote: »

Perhaps someday people will realize that asking for nerfs are self-defeating because whoever gets nerfed is going to ask everyone else gets nerfed and the end result is we're all playing overnerfed classes.

Considering I made this forum account after getting mad at morrowind nerfs, I admit that you are correct, (as usual). Nerfs are required for when things go out of control , but people cry for nerfs way too much in this game. And the worst part is that devs VERY rarely compensates those who got affected by it, which slowly destroys all classes.

Anethum

Joy_Division wrote: »

Perhaps someday people will realize that asking for nerfs are self-defeating because whoever gets nerfed is going to ask everyone else gets nerfed and the end result is we're all playing overnerfed classes.

as usual people ask for adjusting something, which often is about nerf overpowered things.
and it's a healthy process when this is real feedback from experienced and competent player

Ragnarock41

Anethum wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Perhaps someday people will realize that asking for nerfs are self-defeating because whoever gets nerfed is going to ask everyone else gets nerfed and the end result is we're all playing overnerfed classes.

as usual people ask for adjusting something, which often is about nerf overpowered things.
and it's a healthy process when this is real feedback from experienced and competent player

Read the bolded part and think about why forums are a mess and we have class reps instead to do the feedback gathering.

IZZEFlameLash

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Perhaps someday people will realize that asking for nerfs are self-defeating because whoever gets nerfed is going to ask everyone else gets nerfed and the end result is we're all playing overnerfed classes.

as usual people ask for adjusting something, which often is about nerf overpowered things.
and it's a healthy process when this is real feedback from experienced and competent player

Read the bolded part and think about why forums are a mess and we have class reps instead to do the feedback gathering.

Except, they don't seem to listen to even class rep feedbacks.

Cadbury

Anethum wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Perhaps someday people will realize that asking for nerfs are self-defeating because whoever gets nerfed is going to ask everyone else gets nerfed and the end result is we're all playing overnerfed classes.

real feedback from experienced and competent player

Strictly playing Devil's Advocate here, but how do you quantify what is "real" feedback from "experienced" and "competent" players? I'm sure most ESO players consider themselves as such.

RighteousBacon

Fossilize sucks to fight against. It can really screw you. But unlike a sorc, the dk can’t, as effectively, one shot you.

Often when fossilize results in my death it’s becauae a dk used it to stop my escape or LOS from a group

Moonsorrow

I wonder.. that when all other classes than nightblades are so heavily nerfed, that everyone moves to play nightblades.. then who is the first nightblade to come to the forum asking nightblade to be nerfed since got killed by it and there is no one else to be nerfed anymore.

KingExecration

Moonsorrow wrote: »

I wonder.. that when all other classes than nightblades are so heavily nerfed, that everyone moves to play nightblades.. then who is the first nightblade to come to the forum asking nightblade to be nerfed since got killed by it and there is no one else to be nerfed anymore.

That’s when they sell another class for 40$ in a boring dlc

Moonsorrow

KingExecration wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

I wonder.. that when all other classes than nightblades are so heavily nerfed, that everyone moves to play nightblades.. then who is the first nightblade to come to the forum asking nightblade to be nerfed since got killed by it and there is no one else to be nerfed anymore.

That’s when they sell another class for 40$ in a boring dlc

Yeah, most likely its gonna be a Necromancer class, that will have something like a wraith pet that will take any stealther out of stealth inside 28m too. Forums would be so lit.

Undefwun

Didn't read thread.

See my sig.. I play a newish Stam DK and I play a Stam Sorc, I use fossilize and rune cage respectively (and a blade of each variety). I have PvE mSorc...

Rune Cage was fine pre-Summerset. There was no need for the buff.
In fact the buff ruined me wanting to get my mag Sorc a pvp build.. .too many FOTM players..

In general I am more worried about being caged than fossilized on any of my toons. That's all a good mSorc needs to burst you like a big fat balloon. DKs don't have the burst... and implosion and fury.

I can usually break free/roll on my stam toons and ward/heal/cripple on the magblade if low on stam.

Fossilize is fine. Annoying, but ok.

Anethum

Cadbury wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Perhaps someday people will realize that asking for nerfs are self-defeating because whoever gets nerfed is going to ask everyone else gets nerfed and the end result is we're all playing overnerfed classes.

real feedback from experienced and competent player

Strictly playing Devil's Advocate here, but how do you quantify what is "real" feedback from "experienced" and "competent" players? I'm sure most ESO players consider themselves as such.

with time, statistics, proofs.
that person should play at all classes (and be familiar with them in both pve and pvp) if he want to talk about balance and what need to be changed for each class to get this balance in pve and pvp.
he should be objective, not defending any class more than others, he should operate numbers, not slogans.
LIke GIlliamtherogue for example
And he should to know what is Danning-Kruger effect to be enouch self-critical.
And, that person should do this because he's fun of game without tryings of self-affirmation before others in every way he find
not so hard but delicate process

KingExecration

I’ve played magplar and mag dk almost all of the time playing the game, and when I die to a mag dk it isn’t because he has some super powerful cc, it’s because I’ve been burnt dry (pun) or lagging like crazy. Fossilize is good but not broken. You can break it immediately. You wanna know broken give my dk 3 or 4 seconds before it lets you break free, and we shall see how bad it could be

NobleX35

The only element that really needs to be changed is that it needs to be usable on targets that have CC immunity. It should not just flash up with color effectively letting the caster know that the enemy targets CC immunity is over.

If players dont have the skill to monitor the enemys feet for the white circles, then they deserve to waste their magicka pool.

KingExecration

NobleX35 wrote: »

The only element that really needs to be changed is that it needs to be usable on targets that have CC immunity. It should not just flash up with color effectively letting the caster know that the enemy targets CC immunity is over.

If players dont have the skill to monitor the enemys feet for the white circles, then they deserve to waste their magicka pool.

As punishing as it is I would welcome that change, so those spamming it at bad times would be punished or waste all their magic because their opponent went into mist form lol. That’d be great.

gannicus1389

Issue with rune cage vs fossilize, is that rune cage could be used from far away and the sorcs had a stronger burst set up.

however, I think fossilize is a problem because IT DOUBLE CC's at a relatively low resource cost, so it pressures magicka opponents, and hinders stamina users by a lot.

I don't think such a cheap skill, unblockable, instant cast, undodgeable, should apply two diffent types of CC.

In PvP no-cp, you basically force your opponent to spend almost 9k stamina, this is A LOT OF STAMINA.
if mag dks want to immobilize people also, they should be consuming resources to use talons or another type of immobilize in my opinion.

fossilize is a very brain dead mechanic, and I hope they at least remove the immobilize from it. I personally feel sad for stam dks as it would hit them harder, but the class itself just need some rework.

fossilize is really not fair as it works, specially with other classes having little to no access to easy ccs like that.

Betty_Booms

I just avoid dks. Between wings and Fossil they are msorc Kryptonite. It boils down to resources. They will out sustain every time. They can bash channeled attacks. So all you really have us pulse and curse.

And should I gimp myself into a build that may have a chance of beating one at the cost of other more affective abilities? No...

And to the person that says they have no burst...please...10k flights with a stun...

Alot of people say play DK then comment. Well since I very rarely beat the class i challenge you to make a Msorc and face a DK of equal ability.