Magplar PvP

Joy_Division

BNOC wrote: »

Feyziness wrote: »

@BNOC
What would you leave out for those skills?
And thanks for the reply

I actually don't play range so don't know the whole setup - I would guess at Dark flare but you're probably better off speaking to one of the ranged guys in here.

I know @Joy_Division is one so maybe he'll know.

@Feyziness I don't like Dark Flare and and I don't like reach. Dark Flare requires the opponent to not be in your face (difficult as a magplar) and reach is stupid expensive, I'd rather have a complete armor set bonus than a master staff, and it's not like Magplars have the on demand burst to use this stun, you might as well use javelin if the stun is so important. i'd rather use ustable Core as the CC than reach but that's just MHO.

Solariken

Dark Flare is a great skill! I love using it but have to admit the risk vs reward is out of whack...

Long cast
Interruptible
Visual telegraph
Looonnng travel time
Sound cue that is loud af
Blockable
Dodgeable


All those downsides and it still gets to be hard-countered by Dk's, Wardens, Nightblades, and Sorcs with Ball.

Get ZOS'd Templar plebs.

Kartalin

I haven't had a lot of opportunity to see how it works but I've re-morphed Total Dark to Unstable Core as my CC in my ranged build which is a couple dozen pages back by now (lol).

Armor: 5 Torug's Pact, 2 Valkyn Skoria (CP) or 1 Chudan + 1 Pirate Skelly (no CP), 5-1-1 Light
Jewelry: 3 Spinner's, 2 swift + 1 arcane, 1 recovery + 2 damage glyphs
Spinner's Flame staff, infused, offensive bar, flame enchant
Willpower Resto staff, infused, defensive bar, absorb magicka enchant (can use weapon/spell damage instead)

offensive bar skills: Crushing Shock, Ele Drain, Reflective Light, Purifying Light, Unstable Core, Shooting Star
defensive bar skills: Elusive Mist, Extended Ritual, Degeneration, Honor the Dead, Channeled Focus, Light's Champion

The goal is to just put a lot of pressure on opponents via the flame enchant on front bar consistently proc-ing because of Torug's + Infused. Between that and the other skills I can get weaker opponents down surprisingly quickly and put better opponents on the defensive. I tend to just use the Light's champion so I can go offensive while it ticks, I typically don't cast shooting star at all but it does give me the mage guild passives on both bars with degen on the other. I used to have Jesus beam slotted but I never felt comfortable mixing it up and halting the light attack rotation (which stops my enchants from hitting). I could slot Elemental Weapon instead of Crushing shock but I do love that interrupt CS gives.
.

TheDoomsdayMonster

LeifErickson wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Got a few questions I was hoping some of you guys might have good answers for.

I use reflective light right now, but it feels like it hits for almost nothing and would rather use spear next patch in its spot, but I can't find a good way to get the major crit back. Any advice there?

I also wanna try a build with Willpower front bar and a monster 2 piece with 4 and 4 body and both 5 pieces back bar. The sets that could work with this are spell power cure, transmutation, gossamer, clever alchemist, acuity (I might have missed some). I prefer to run heavy but I could go light with protective and try to build stam with tri glyphs. I'm just not sure if those sets are worth building that way. Any thoughts there? I'm not sure if gossamer would be worth it as I block pretty much all ultimates so I'm not sure I would get much benefit.

Also what do you guys think about sanctuary?

This is for solo and small group play.

For your backbar next patch, don't forget that new heavy set that gives Major Protection when you cleanse a negative effect. Less valuable if you're running Empowering Sweep, but it's going to be give 50% uptime on Major Protection, which is pretty attractive.

You're an Argonian right? Have you considered Immov/Major Prophecy potions in place of Reflective Light? Unless you consider tri-pots non-negotiable.

Crit source options:
- health/mag/crit pots
- spell power pots
- vamps bane
- inner light front bar with a crit bonus set on backbar (trans).

Sets:
- willpower always works, assuming your 5pc sets can activated via 5pc body, 3jewel, backbar weapons. Or you can do 4pc body 1 weapon+3 pc jewels, 1pc body and 1 weapon.
- slotting inner light on backbar roughly equals the same bonus as willpower. SO you can equalize your stats without annoying backbar bar swap issues.
- clever will work backbar with the 4,4 weapon setup. Most of the sets mentioned can; trans is nice because it benefits yourself while buffing your group.

Treasure hunter is great too. It's a solid set that I plan to run on certain builds and have friends who swear by it.

Treasure Hunter is an excellent set...

The only reason I don't use it myself is because Radiant Magelight is really, really, good (I think so highly of it that I double bar it) and gives the Major Prophecy buff in constant effect as well...

maxjapank

Gibus043 wrote: »

Gibus043 wrote: »

I don't have much experience with magplar
Can you share your bar setups for Battlegrounds / Openworld No-CP?

I was thinking to try something like this:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=90710

Ok, I gave it a try and there's something I didn't understood

If I cast Eclipse (Total Dark) followed by a Stun (Toppling Charge), does my target have to break free once or twice?

I have both Total Dark and Toppling Charge on my bars and use both extensively. But when to use them depends on who I'm playing against.

Against less knowledgeable players, you can cast Total Dark first and then before it expires, stun them with Toppling Charge. A player's natural reaction when stunned is to break free. But many players do not realize that they have Total Dark on them cause it doesn't inhibit their movement. So you can cause dmg to them and get free heals the entire time time and still stun them before it expires.

Against better players, I usually use Total Dark more defensively. I use it when they are attempting to burst me, and what happens is they end up damaging themselves and giving me enough free heals that their burst does nothing. Even if they break free immediately, their burst combo is broken.

But even using Toppling immediately after Total Dark on good players still works. They will often dmg themselves once or twice and you can still stun them before they break free from Total Dark. Of course, they will break free from the stun. But they would've broken free from the hard stun anyways. So if your are going on the offensive, this combo still works. You just have to play the player.

TheDoomsdayMonster

My Bars for Murkmire are completely unchanged btw:


Healing/Defense (Resto Staff) Bar:

Rapid Regeneration...
Breath of Life...
Radiant Magelight...
Ritual of Retribution...
Elusive Mist...
Replenishing Barrier...


Offensive (Dual Wield) Bar:

Puncturing Sweeps...
Accelerating Drain...
Radiant Magelight...
Toppling Charge...
Purifying Light...
Soul Assault...

danno8

Solariken wrote: »

Dark Flare is a great skill! I love using it but have to admit the risk vs reward is out of whack...

Long cast
Interruptible
Visual telegraph
Looonnng travel time
Sound cue that is loud af
Blockable
Dodgeable


All those downsides and it still gets to be hard-countered by Dk's, Wardens, Nightblades, and Sorcs with Ball.

Get ZOS'd Templar plebs.

And it got nerfed by the across the board Empower change. And then nerfed again by the across the board Defile changes.

Dark Flare is really only good for obliterating unaware foes at this point, which it is admittedly very good at. DF, (DF), Javelin, RD from stealth will wreck anything but high health/resist tanks. If it's a NB use Soul Assault instead of RD to really ruin their day.

danno8

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

With the coming change to Major Evasion, anyone here going to revisit Spectre's Eye/Hist Bark/Gossamer?

After all, 25% resist to all AoE looks really good on paper...

Yes, it will suffer from diminishing returns, but the damage negation should be significant...

It's not nearly as much as most are ASSUMING, although gossamer could be used in zerg vs zerg

Agreed...

Let's examine some math...


If one has max resists and is subject to a 10000 point AoE attack, your resists bring the damage down to half (5000 points of damage)...

Major Evasion will then reduce the damage by another 25% bringing it down to 3750; saving you another 1250 points of damage...

In other words, Major Evasion only negated 1250 of the original 10000 points of damage which is 12.5% damage negation...


In conclusion, Major Evasion will be good (and you will see a noticeable difference vs AoE), but it won't be overpowering...

You should hop on the PTS and test that. Because whether it is a bug or not, the Major Evasion seems to be stacking additively with Resistance when I tested it.

TheDoomsdayMonster

danno8 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

With the coming change to Major Evasion, anyone here going to revisit Spectre's Eye/Hist Bark/Gossamer?

After all, 25% resist to all AoE looks really good on paper...

Yes, it will suffer from diminishing returns, but the damage negation should be significant...

It's not nearly as much as most are ASSUMING, although gossamer could be used in zerg vs zerg

Agreed...

Let's examine some math...


If one has max resists and is subject to a 10000 point AoE attack, your resists bring the damage down to half (5000 points of damage)...

Major Evasion will then reduce the damage by another 25% bringing it down to 3750; saving you another 1250 points of damage...

In other words, Major Evasion only negated 1250 of the original 10000 points of damage which is 12.5% damage negation...


In conclusion, Major Evasion will be good (and you will see a noticeable difference vs AoE), but it won't be overpowering...

You should hop on the PTS and test that. Because whether it is a bug or not, the Major Evasion seems to be stacking additively with Resistance when I tested it.

It's probably a bug or oversight then as additional forms of mitigation are not supposed to be additive...

I'll definitely keep my eye on it...

If it is intended to be additive, however, I have a Spectre's Eye set fully Impend, Golded out, and ready to go!

Minno

Kartalin wrote: »

I haven't had a lot of opportunity to see how it works but I've re-morphed Total Dark to Unstable Core as my CC in my ranged build which is a couple dozen pages back by now (lol).

Armor: 5 Torug's Pact, 2 Valkyn Skoria (CP) or 1 Chudan + 1 Pirate Skelly (no CP), 5-1-1 Light
Jewelry: 3 Spinner's, 2 swift + 1 arcane, 1 recovery + 2 damage glyphs
Spinner's Flame staff, infused, offensive bar, flame enchant
Willpower Resto staff, infused, defensive bar, absorb magicka enchant (can use weapon/spell damage instead)

offensive bar skills: Crushing Shock, Ele Drain, Reflective Light, Purifying Light, Unstable Core, Shooting Star
defensive bar skills: Elusive Mist, Extended Ritual, Degeneration, Honor the Dead, Channeled Focus, Light's Champion

The goal is to just put a lot of pressure on opponents via the flame enchant on front bar consistently proc-ing because of Torug's + Infused. Between that and the other skills I can get weaker opponents down surprisingly quickly and put better opponents on the defensive. I tend to just use the Light's champion so I can go offensive while it ticks, I typically don't cast shooting star at all but it does give me the mage guild passives on both bars with degen on the other. I used to have Jesus beam slotted but I never felt comfortable mixing it up and halting the light attack rotation (which stops my enchants from hitting). I could slot Elemental Weapon instead of Crushing shock but I do love that interrupt CS gives.
.

Thanks for this!

Currently giving your bar setup a try, with ele weapon and ice staff/block of frost:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=90953

Rhaegar75

guys can you give me an idea/update of magplars in Murkmire?

Minno

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

guys can you give me an idea/update of magplars in Murkmire?

Not really. It hasn't been released yet and Templar kit will have changed a little so it's hard to say anything that will make everyone commit.
Here's what we know:
- evasion will mess with jabs. Some people have tested and found it additive with armor mitigation lol
- blight-throat had been renamed by some ofus to deep-throat lol. Jokes aside we are looking forward to that set.
- minor protection now in spear line but spear abilities still "eh". Mixed reception on cresant/empowering sweeps changes.
- lost minor vitality with once again no compensation.
- shield now use armor/impen. Short value shield now seea little buff if you are using trans+decent armor (like most Templars are used to playing). But blazing shield got nerfed twice from the armor mitigation reduced the DMG and then again by Zos misunderstanding their changes. Radiant Ward is probably the better morph (cheap casts).
- light armor snare reduction passive will be kinda nice.
- mobilty changes hit Templar the hardest. Vamp/bow is probably required now which before you could argue for neither. Thank stamden/nightblades for that one lol.

And thats what i can remember. Sometime can add to to this.

Mrsinister2

I replaced purifying light with elemental weapon and it's really starting to grow on me since it's way less obvious burst is coming and it's hits quite hard on most people.

Kinda wonky to time when to hit it tho depending on how far or close you are to the target.

katorga

But blazing shield got nerfed twice from the armor mitigation reduced the DMG and then again by Zos misunderstanding their changes.

That just cracks me up....

Gibus043

Thoughts on this build?
I'm trying Invigorating Drain (Vampire) as spammable. That ulti-gen is addicting
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=90710

Fun fact: Drain can hit an enemy behind you while immobilized. Very useful against MagDK

BNOC

Gibus043 wrote: »

Thoughts on this build?
I'm trying Invigorating Drain (Vampire) as spammable. That ulti-gen is addicting
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=90710

Fun fact: Drain can hit an enemy behind you while immobilized. Very useful against MagDK

So can reflective light and a couple other things iirc.

I just had a quick look and the first thing I would suggest / query is why ritual and HtD on front bar?
I only ask because you have a resto back bar which gives you bigger heals and I personally find it beneficial on offence to have my front bar loaded with DPS abilities - Not everyone is the same though.

I may have missed something as it was a pretty quick look.

Gibus043

HtD is frontbar for the higher spell damage / crit from Dual Wield
I'm using Dual Wield because Invigorating Drain doesn't have a big range
For Extended Ritual I think you're right, I might move it backbar

Datolite

Gibus043 wrote: »

HtD is frontbar for the higher spell damage / crit from Dual Wield
I'm using Dual Wield because Invigorating Drain doesn't have a big range
For Extended Ritual I think you're right, I might move it backbar

I always keep my HtD on back bar because I'm usually running Powered resto staff or SNB. I wonder would the SD/crit outperform a powered weapon? If so, what is the point of that trait?

CatchMeTrolling

Burst heal makes more sense on your front bar since templars have one of the hardest times switching from defense to offense. I played both ways but front bar is more reliable, not to mention your front bar usually has the most spell damage which boost heals.

You can still run powered on your back bar to boost ritual, I’m not sure if it buffs meditate. Defending is probably the better trait for a magplar. Stamplar benefits more from powered back bar if you use rally.

Checkmath

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Burst heal makes more sense on your front bar since templars have one of the hardest times switching from defense to offense. I played both ways but front bar is more reliable, not to mention your front bar usually has the most spell damage which boost heals.

You can still run powered on your back bar to boost ritual, I’m not sure if it buffs meditate. Defending is probably the better trait for a magplar. Stamplar benefits more from powered back bar if you use rally.

Well I see the point of running HtD on front bar with a dual wield/resto setup. But as soon as an ice staff or snb is involved, I really recommend slotting the burst heal on the backbar. Going to offense from defense is not really depending from where your burst heal is slotted, since bar swapping can be done between skills very quickly without losing time. The most important point why your burst heal belongs on the snb or froststaffbar is to blockcast it. If you are really pressured blockcasting healings does much more than the petty 100-200 more heals from your frontbar.

I really recommend slotting burst heals always on the backbar in the case of ice staff or snb, because it improves your survivability by a lot. I think a lot of experienced players will support this statement.

Edit: there is a cp passive making your next magicka ability crit when blocking some incoming attacks (3 projectiles or something), which surely outweights the missing spelldamage or crit from the frontbar. I know this is not depending on the weapon, but snb and ice staves decrease blockcosts by a lot and also the damage taken while blocking, so that really is worth it to consider.

Datolite

Good point, I would choose the ability to block cast over bigger burst heal. Maybe if I was running 3 swift I might change my tune.

Quick question: I'm running sweeps, barrage, soul assault and radiant in my current build. Sometimes I switch to bats. Should I be running lightning or fire destro staff? I want to run DW to balance it out between direct and AoE damage but I really need the reach of a staff in BGs. What's a good compromise?

CatchMeTrolling

I think this thread shows how many people play in groups vs solo. A lot of the things will not work by yourself when multiple people are beating on you. The reality is you’re going to get stuck on your back bar vs any competent player . This is why I find most Templar players easy to kill because they get stuck on defense.

Plus it’s a bad idea to suggest any new player to run snb and frost on their back bar along with their burst heal. You’re putting them in the position to get killed due to inexperience. Actually the average person that switch to Templar usually tells me “I don’t know how you play Templar because they’re so squishy”. Until I give them suggestions explaining why they should run what I’m telling them. Keep in mind you’re talking to someone who played magplar predominantly solo for the longest and as dps Templar when it took forever to complete the Templar bounty.

DeadlyRecluse

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Plus it’s a bad idea to suggest any new player to run snb and frost on their back bar along with their burst heal. You’re putting them in the position to get killed due to inexperience.

Eh, I think part of that is also where any given player chooses to play--in BGs, off-hours open world, etc. I can usually get away with barswapping more frequently, but as soon as there's any lag having that burst heal on the front bar is pretty imperative.

CatchMeTrolling

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Plus it’s a bad idea to suggest any new player to run snb and frost on their back bar along with their burst heal. You’re putting them in the position to get killed due to inexperience.

Eh, I think part of that is also where any given player chooses to play--in BGs, off-hours open world, etc. I can usually get away with barswapping more frequently, but as soon as there's any lag having that burst heal on the front bar is pretty imperative.

Lag is only one issue with it. If I’m on my stamplar simply swapping to your back bar and burst healing isnt saving you from my assault, especially once those bleeds get going. You’re going to struggle against anyone that knows how to keep up pressure. So if you’re stuck purging and healing with few attacks in you’re just delaying the inevitable.

Stamplar, both nbs and magdk in the right hands I can see really giving a player trouble because they force people to back bar.

Minno

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I think this thread shows how many people play in groups vs solo. A lot of the things will not work by yourself when multiple people are beating on you. The reality is you’re going to get stuck on your back bar vs any competent player . This is why I find most Templar players easy to kill because they get stuck on defense.

Plus it’s a bad idea to suggest any new player to run snb and frost on their back bar along with their burst heal. You’re putting them in the position to get killed due to inexperience. Actually the average person that switch to Templar usually tells me “I don’t know how you play Templar because they’re so squishy”. Until I give them suggestions explaining why they should run what I’m telling them. Keep in mind you’re talking to someone who played magplar predominantly solo for the longest and as dps Templar when it took forever to complete the Templar bounty.

Frost staff front bar, resto back bar for me
Dropped jabs, can block offensively and on defensive bar. Difference being one has my heal, the other total dark my offensive heal .

Then valkyn since it's not terrible.

Checkmath

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I think this thread shows how many people play in groups vs solo. A lot of the things will not work by yourself when multiple people are beating on you. The reality is you’re going to get stuck on your back bar vs any competent player . This is why I find most Templar players easy to kill because they get stuck on defense.

Plus it’s a bad idea to suggest any new player to run snb and frost on their back bar along with their burst heal. You’re putting them in the position to get killed due to inexperience. Actually the average person that switch to Templar usually tells me “I don’t know how you play Templar because they’re so squishy”. Until I give them suggestions explaining why they should run what I’m telling them. Keep in mind you’re talking to someone who played magplar predominantly solo for the longest and as dps Templar when it took forever to complete the Templar bounty.

This probably just is a matter of opinion, but I really disagree with you, that burst heal should be on the frontbar. I also would immediately recommend to newbies again and again to slot a burst heal on their backbar, where it is more likely to recover. Normally backbars profit from either more resistances, more healing power or better blocking. Not slotting HtD there makes not much sense in my opinion, because you just profit more of the healing, when you at the same time mitigate more damage. Even a new player will be served better, when he survives some seconds more due to block or better mitigation, if help is on the way. There are enough situations, where you just have to survive a bit longer instead of trying to go offensive (which is only a bar swap away). Saying new players will die due to experience, when going with snb or ice staff and HtD backbar does not make sense at all. It is the easiest way to survive on a magplar and helps especially new players learning more due to longer fights. Blocking is the first reaction new players will take when overwhelmed and slotting snb is the best way to augment the survivability in this situation. Right, new players will probably then be stuck on the backbar, but slotting HtD on the dual wield bar would have killed them already.

I am playing with snb backbar for years now and I do not see any sense in your statement before. If you get stuck in healing on magplar, it is not the weapon, which leads to that result, it is only the missing experience. Especially when multiple people are beating on you, then a short snb block and HtD cast is the best life saver. If you do not want to get stuck there, go for the counter attack after that, dodge roll, stun or mistform. This all works very well solo and in a group.

CatchMeTrolling

Checkmath wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I think this thread shows how many people play in groups vs solo. A lot of the things will not work by yourself when multiple people are beating on you. The reality is you’re going to get stuck on your back bar vs any competent player . This is why I find most Templar players easy to kill because they get stuck on defense.

Plus it’s a bad idea to suggest any new player to run snb and frost on their back bar along with their burst heal. You’re putting them in the position to get killed due to inexperience. Actually the average person that switch to Templar usually tells me “I don’t know how you play Templar because they’re so squishy”. Until I give them suggestions explaining why they should run what I’m telling them. Keep in mind you’re talking to someone who played magplar predominantly solo for the longest and as dps Templar when it took forever to complete the Templar bounty.

This probably just is a matter of opinion, but I really disagree with you, that burst heal should be on the frontbar. I also would immediately recommend to newbies again and again to slot a burst heal on their backbar, where it is more likely to recover. Normally backbars profit from either more resistances, more healing power or better blocking. Not slotting HtD there makes not much sense in my opinion, because you just profit more of the healing, when you at the same time mitigate more damage. Even a new player will be served better, when he survives some seconds more due to block or better mitigation, if help is on the way. There are enough situations, where you just have to survive a bit longer instead of trying to go offensive (which is only a bar swap away). Saying new players will die due to experience, when going with snb or ice staff and HtD backbar does not make sense at all. It is the easiest way to survive on a magplar and helps especially new players learning more due to longer fights. Blocking is the first reaction new players will take when overwhelmed and slotting snb is the best way to augment the survivability in this situation. Right, new players will probably then be stuck on the backbar, but slotting HtD on the dual wield bar would have killed them already.

I am playing with snb backbar for years now and I do not see any sense in your statement before. If you get stuck in healing on magplar, it is not the weapon, which leads to that result, it is only the missing experience. Especially when multiple people are beating on you, then a short snb block and HtD cast is the best life saver. If you do not want to get stuck there, go for the counter attack after that, dodge roll, stun or mistform. This all works very well solo and in a group.

Okay

DeadlyRecluse

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Plus it’s a bad idea to suggest any new player to run snb and frost on their back bar along with their burst heal. You’re putting them in the position to get killed due to inexperience.

Eh, I think part of that is also where any given player chooses to play--in BGs, off-hours open world, etc. I can usually get away with barswapping more frequently, but as soon as there's any lag having that burst heal on the front bar is pretty imperative.

Lag is only one issue with it. If I’m on my stamplar simply swapping to your back bar and burst healing isnt saving you from my assault, especially once those bleeds get going. You’re going to struggle against anyone that knows how to keep up pressure. So if you’re stuck purging and healing with few attacks in you’re just delaying the inevitable.

Stamplar, both nbs and magdk in the right hands I can see really giving a player trouble because they force people to back bar.

Barswap--ritual (roll cancelled), HtD (barswap cancel). I'm at 100 percent HP, back on my frontbar, and dots are clear. It's not like I have to sit on my backbar and spend time to recover.

Again, I agree with you that in many circumstances frontbarred burst heals are imperative--but putting a burst heal on the backbar isn't a death sentence, and depending on how you itemize and where you play it can be the right call.

Brutusmax1mus

Everyone should be setting up thier bars how they want them to be, and not slowly changing it as they get better. It's a steeper curve but it is much faster.

Block casting htd is the only way to do it. Otherwise you're just casting non stop until youre cc'd again. Put it on an ice staff or snb bar if you use them, If not it doesn't matter and is preference depending on how you set up the bars.

Bar swapping isn't hard, except in lag, get used to doing it as a templar especially. Don't crutch on sloting excess heals it skills you don't really plan on using.

technohic

I like to stagger things between bars like extended ritual and HTD so I get a bar swap cancel. I really like to do this with buffs as well. Problems do arise in lag often though where I fire off the wrong ability. It's often enough to consider but when it's at it's worst, there are plenty other problems going on I'm not sure it will save or kill me.