Optimizing Mitigation [Calculator]

StytchFingal

With both Major and Minor Wards and Resolves ticked on DK, I got these numbers (with 2 in Spell Shield, and 42 in Armour Focus):

Outputs
Hardy Champion Points:
49
Elemental Defender Champion Points:
49
Ironclad Champion Points:
81
Thick Skin Champion Points:
37
Spell Shield Value:
6,809
Armor Focus Value:
10,103
Spell Resistance:
30,760
Physical Resistance:
30,754
Physical Mitigation (Direct Damage):
63.776
Pysical Mitigation (Damage over Time):
59.486
Spell Mitigation (Direct Damage):
63.782
Spell Mitigation (Damage over Time):
59.493
Total Champion Points:
260

paulsimonps

***, force pulse is ranged and not a channel.... and its not a projectile since it can't be reflected.... Are there more abilities such as that? Guess I need to add Direct Ranged to that list for non projectile ranged attacks.

Minno

paulsimonps wrote: »

***, force pulse is ranged and not a channel.... and its not a projectile since it can't be reflected.... Are there more abilities such as that? Guess I need to add Direct Ranged to that list for non projectile ranged attacks.

Meteor; can be blocked but not reflected /dodged but has an AOE dot effect that ignores everything.

paulsimonps

Minno wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

***, force pulse is ranged and not a channel.... and its not a projectile since it can't be reflected.... Are there more abilities such as that? Guess I need to add Direct Ranged to that list for non projectile ranged attacks.

Meteor; can be blocked but not reflected /dodged but has an AOE dot effect that ignores everything.

yea, from my experience AoE DoTs, typically ground based, ignores block and all blocking mitigation, but is still susceptible to other forms of mitigation.

So we got 8 damage types, 9 if we put bleed as its separate thing, which it is, and 8 forms of damage application. Melee, Ranged, Projectile and Area of Effect, all 4 both in Direct and over Time.

paulsimonps

Currently working on making the mitigation output look better and include more information. Thinking should I add bleed as its own separate thing here and just leave all but the DoT columns for it empty? Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Thinking of making a table for CP instead as well so its easier to read. Just noticed I could make it like this... derp...



PS: The zero under disease should read magic

Minno

Can we input targets' stats?(haven't looked at the calculator yet)

Like say I want to compare a 26000 armor target against my current offensive stats.

paulsimonps

Minno wrote: »

Can we input targets' stats?(haven't looked at the calculator yet)

Like say I want to compare a 26000 armor target against my current offensive stats.

@Minno

Since all skills calculate differently this would be hard to do by using your own offensive stats, however, I could add a place for you to put in base damage and penetration. That way, be it for calculating offensive capabilities or defensive, you can see how much damage you would take or do. Also, not really updated the calc yet as I am still working on it, the links are set to how it looked when linked.

My old calculator used to have that plus damage shield strength. It was good for that sort of thing but less good for seeing overall mitigation in different application forms like this one will.

paulsimonps

Newest update to the calculator. Hope you guys like the changes I made to the output style.

https://jscalc.io/calc/wYzQfCOlRcB1fkEo

Will put this in the OP as well and keep the newest one I made there so its easy to find.

pky1029

hi great work,can you please add column for crit mitigation and ability to input enemy player's penetration and crit modifer. it would be helpful to analyse my pvp tank defensive cp arrangement.

Bazeric

I know you're still working on this, but when I select 'breton' I am not getting the extra 3960 spell resistance racial passive. Maybe it's just not added yet or I don't quiet understand what I am working with. Don't think it's starting at the cap is it?

I am always glad for your good work on breaking down these system for us. Thanks.

Minno

Looks good!

Can we also have the ability to look into using 5L or 5M with different armor types?

Samsgaard

During my last stint in the game (last year), it was reported in the forums that the order in which you spend points in the mitigation categories affected the net outcome. I think the recommendation was to put points in Hardy/Elemental before Iron/Thick. Has this issue been resolved?

paulsimonps

Bazeric wrote: »

I know you're still working on this, but when I select 'breton' I am not getting the extra 3960 spell resistance racial passive. Maybe it's just not added yet or I don't quiet understand what I am working with. Don't think it's starting at the cap is it?

I am always glad for your good work on breaking down these system for us. Thanks.

@Bazeric
HAHAHAHAHA, I totally forgot about the fricking bretons Will fix that next time.

Minno wrote: »

Looks good!

Can we also have the ability to look into using 5L or 5M with different armor types?

@Minno

Its not showing yet in the latest one, but if you look at it you might see that there is a "Show gear choices" checkbox. Its hidden for now, but once you tick that I am making it so you can choose not only type of armor, but trait, quality and set for all the individual slots. That will make it so that there is no hard set resistance, you have to choose it all on your own. So using this tool might take a bit to set up at first but I want it to be as complete as I can.

It didn't start off like this, my intentions were small, but I think the outcome of this all is a very good thing.

Samsgaard wrote: »

During my last stint in the game (last year), it was reported in the forums that the order in which you spend points in the mitigation categories affected the net outcome. I think the recommendation was to put points in Hardy/Elemental before Iron/Thick. Has this issue been resolved?

I hope its fixed.... don't remember if its fixed.

pky1029 wrote: »

hi great work,can you please add column for crit mitigation and ability to input enemy player's penetration and crit modifer. it would be helpful to analyse my pvp tank defensive cp arrangement.

It will be added, hopefully, when all base sources of mitigation is included. It might not be the easiest to do though.... not that experienced with crit stuff.... pvp.... when time comes I will call on @Taylor_MB for help

jenshady

paulsimonps wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

I know you're still working on this, but when I select 'breton' I am not getting the extra 3960 spell resistance racial passive. Maybe it's just not added yet or I don't quiet understand what I am working with. Don't think it's starting at the cap is it?

I am always glad for your good work on breaking down these system for us. Thanks.

@Bazeric
HAHAHAHAHA, I totally forgot about the fricking bretons Will fix that next

How can you forget the bretons you racist. :P

Minno

paulsimonps wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

I know you're still working on this, but when I select 'breton' I am not getting the extra 3960 spell resistance racial passive. Maybe it's just not added yet or I don't quiet understand what I am working with. Don't think it's starting at the cap is it?

I am always glad for your good work on breaking down these system for us. Thanks.

@Bazeric
HAHAHAHAHA, I totally forgot about the fricking bretons Will fix that next time.

Minno wrote: »

Looks good!

Can we also have the ability to look into using 5L or 5M with different armor types?

@Minno

Its not showing yet in the latest one, but if you look at it you might see that there is a "Show gear choices" checkbox. Its hidden for now, but once you tick that I am making it so you can choose not only type of armor, but trait, quality and set for all the individual slots. That will make it so that there is no hard set resistance, you have to choose it all on your own. So using this tool might take a bit to set up at first but I want it to be as complete as I can.

It didn't start off like this, my intentions were small, but I think the outcome of this all is a very good thing.

Samsgaard wrote: »

During my last stint in the game (last year), it was reported in the forums that the order in which you spend points in the mitigation categories affected the net outcome. I think the recommendation was to put points in Hardy/Elemental before Iron/Thick. Has this issue been resolved?

I hope its fixed.... don't remember if its fixed.

pky1029 wrote: »

hi great work,can you please add column for crit mitigation and ability to input enemy player's penetration and crit modifer. it would be helpful to analyse my pvp tank defensive cp arrangement.

It will be added, hopefully, when all base sources of mitigation is included. It might not be the easiest to do though.... not that experienced with crit stuff.... pvp.... when time comes I will call on @Taylor_MB for help

Cool! This is starting to shape up to be the mitigation editor the ESO community needs!

Taylor_MB

paulsimonps wrote: »

It will be added, hopefully, when all base sources of mitigation is included. It might not be the easiest to do though.... not that experienced with crit stuff.... pvp.... when time comes I will call on @Taylor_MB for help

Would be my pleasure . Just have to arrange to be unemployed for a bit... haha.

My PvP mitigation stuff hit a brick wall with CP. I might have been missing something obvious, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out how the offensive CP on the attacker interacted with the defensive CP of the defender. I should have another fresh look at it, it can't be too complicated...

PvP critical calculations are easy though, you'll have no problem with them, very few sources of offensive and defense.

Mix

Lots of hard work here! Great resource for the community

WAMB0

* can only change helmet type ?
* any way to input resistances from sets ? (Torugs...) or procs (Bloodspawn / Lordwarden)


* For me Bastion is a really important CP passive, I usually run 30+ points in there.
You might wanna add this and quick recovery (any other relevant points?), just so we can input all available CP

Or you also let us input our Resssources to calc shield size, but that would be a lot of work again (since resources change, with warhorn for example)

paulsimonps

WAMB0 wrote: »

* can only change helmet type ?
* any way to input resistances from sets ? (Torugs...) or procs (Bloodspawn / Lordwarden)


* For me Bastion is a really important CP passive, I usually run 30+ points in there.
You might wanna add this and quick recovery (any other relevant points?), just so we can input all available CP

Or you also let us input our Resssources to calc shield size, but that would be a lot of work again (since resources change, with warhorn for example)

@WAMB0

I did say it was unfinished. The armor selection bit is not finished. Also, if you want to account for other CP inputs then just account for that and remove it from the total you see on the output section. On live we have 250 in each tree, if you want 30 in Bastion then just change the options I have available until you have a maximum of 220 or something. And I will not be adding in shields in such a way, I will add it in later but counting resources would be a Beach.

I am planning on putting other trees like resistant in there later but not now, want to finish the armor selection, which will include sets. But I will not hard code in ALL sets. just a few big ones, then if you want to account for 2,3 or 4p bonuses then I will add a way to select the amount of such bonuses. Unless someone is willing to help me hardcode it all in.

Sordidfairytale

paulsimonps wrote: »

So I have been wanting to try and figure out a way to optimize my champion points for my Tank in regards to mitigation. If you know me then you know I know a lot and love my mitigation, but I have never really figured out how to best set up my CP. So to this end I created a calculator for myself, its a bit limited, frankly if I had the time I would want to make a program that figured it out for me. Regardless, I made a small calculator that will take some but not all variables into account to see what works best.

There are a few things that I have set as criteria for now:

7 Gold Heavy Armor pieces
A Gold Shield
No Reinforced or other armor increasing bonuses
The heavy armor passive Resolve
The CP Passive Bulwark
Major Ward and Resolve

One goal of mine is to make my mitigation for Physical and Spell damage be as equal as possible, for that end I have made it so I have to put as many points into Hard as I do Elemental Defender, as well I want my mitigation for DoT's to be the same for Direct Damage, so those go together as well. If you think this is a bad idea, then please let me know, I might be thinking of it in the wrong way. All in all I want to maximize it all to have my mitigation be as high as I can get it. So here is the link to said calculator(hope it works):

https://jscalc.io/calc/jJoR8DDjLV4bzuzj

I need help to see what numbers will have the best combo. So far I have managed to get around 60.8% Mitigation in both categories using 37p in Hardy and Elemental Defender, 61p in Thick Skin and Ironclad, 9 in Spell Shield and 55 in Armor Focus. This btw is with 260 CP which we will have next update. If anyone can beat that with my calculator or have suggestion for changes for it or my way of thinking around the problem do let me know, I have intent to update and upgrade it as I go, but this was all I managed to work up today.´

PS. the calculator can't limit you to 260 Cp but it does keep track of total CP used, just keep it in mind and use that to keep yourself within the actual limit of the game.

EDIT: NEWEST VERSION https://jscalc.io/calc/HXKJ58N3n4zMlazP

Thank you!

Nestor

I think leaving the tool as CP focused is best. We know what the sets do just looking at the tool tips. Unless there is a mitigation stat that scales from CP. I dont think there is one.

Unless your making a Tanking Gear Simulator, but we already have those. The UESP build editor is just one example. Having something that.just focuses on one aspect like this is better, as fully filling in a build editor can take 30 minutes plus

Sordidfairytale

Nestor wrote: »

I think leaving the tool as CP focused is best. We know what the sets do just looking at the tool tips. Unless there is a mitigation stat that scales from CP. I dont think there is one.

Unless your making a Tanking Gear Simulator, but we already have those. The UESP build editor is just one example. Having something that.just focuses on one aspect like this is better, as fully filling in a build editor can take 30 minutes plus

The UESP editor is nice, but it's far too cumbersome for something like this. The UESP editor is perfect for calculating the complete tank/character. They need to allow scrolling in the right hand column of the character builder though so you can scroll up and down to see your various stats, while still having the main left hand selection in view.

This calculator is great for cp allocation and theorycrafting. Armor sets would be a nice bonus.

Minno

Nestor wrote: »

I think leaving the tool as CP focused is best. We know what the sets do just looking at the tool tips. Unless there is a mitigation stat that scales from CP. I dont think there is one.

Unless your making a Tanking Gear Simulator, but we already have those. The UESP build editor is just one example. Having something that.just focuses on one aspect like this is better, as fully filling in a build editor can take 30 minutes plus

We already have a PvP version from Taylor.

Calculators like this put your build into perspective and give everyone the information they need to craft a build.

paulsimonps

Nestor wrote: »

I think leaving the tool as CP focused is best. We know what the sets do just looking at the tool tips. Unless there is a mitigation stat that scales from CP. I dont think there is one.

Unless your making a Tanking Gear Simulator, but we already have those. The UESP build editor is just one example. Having something that.just focuses on one aspect like this is better, as fully filling in a build editor can take 30 minutes plus

@Nestor

I love the UESP, I support the website wholeheartedly, but when it comes to mitigation it is sorely lacking. I would not have created this if it was already doable with other build creators. However as far as I know no other build creator takes ALL sources of mitigation in mind or displays that mitigation in an understandable and complete way.

For example if you use UESP, add Ironclad points and then Major protection, they have one stat that says Direct Damage taken, that goes to -X% when you put points into it and then a Damage taken stat that goes down the same way, but Major Protection should decrease the Direct Damage stat too, it does not in their editor.

There are 57 different ways to take damage. Technically more with Oblivion but its unmitigatable so it doesn't need to be included. I want to make something that takes everything in mind and how it all interacts with each other. Also all mitigation interacts with each other in a diminishing way so, yes, CP mitigation scales with other non CP stats.

Nestor

Which is why I think you should keep this focused as a Mitigation Calculator. We dont need another Build Simulator.

As for scaling from CP, would gear even change that? I mean it adds a fixed amount, based on level and improvement, but does the effect from gear set bonuses change with CP? For sure the Focus stars scale up the resistance, but I dont know of a set bonus that would.

I have used your tool to tweak my tank, but I think I am also going to use this on my other alts to make them less squishy.

Skullstachio

Awesome work on the calculator @paulsimonps

#bookmarked.

Minno

Nestor wrote: »

Which is why I think you should keep this focused as a Mitigation Calculator. We dont need another Build Simulator.

As for scaling from CP, would gear even change that? I mean it adds a fixed amount, based on level and improvement, but does the effect from gear set bonuses change with CP? For sure the Focus stars scale up the resistance, but I dont know of a set bonus that would.

I have used your tool to tweak my tank, but I think I am also going to use this on my other alts to make them less squishy.

The gear selection would allow you to see the full mitigation values without having to keep a tally on your current resistance level (and subsequently subtract your armor from your enemies penetration for PvP).

As much as the formulas are in the open for all to use, math isn't the strong part of everyone's upbringing. Having everything mitigation wise in one area with a user friendly UI interface is something ESO needs to help educate new players on gear selection or how DMG impacts your build.

A good example of this was Taylor's PvP defensive set comparison spreaf sheet. Sure it seemed excessive to imput values and felt like a smaller version of the build editor we all use, but it put into perspective everyone in the PvP forums are arguing about; which defensive sets are compatible to each other. It even included a summary of pros/cons of each set, and autocalculated based on different inputs based on either typical CP enemies or nCP targets.

This editor above, like his previous editor, is going to be a little in-depth for those looking at exactly how defensive sets help to iron out your build or see how stats stack defensive (or offensively). You can say his previous build editor functions the same way, but It was missing CP values, different DMG sources, and you had to calculate scenarios where you were impacted by penetration before using the editor (not to mention crit DMG was missing entirely).

We need this, as complex as it is .

paulsimonps

Nestor wrote: »

Which is why I think you should keep this focused as a Mitigation Calculator. We dont need another Build Simulator.

As for scaling from CP, would gear even change that? I mean it adds a fixed amount, based on level and improvement, but does the effect from gear set bonuses change with CP? For sure the Focus stars scale up the resistance, but I dont know of a set bonus that would.

I have used your tool to tweak my tank, but I think I am also going to use this on my other alts to make them less squishy.

Its not gonna be a build simulator as those of UESP or other websites. I am not gonna add the option other than putting "None/Other" if its a set or trait that does not effect resistance and mitigation. Its focus is 100% on mitigation and nothing else.

Also all sources of mitigation interacts with each other through their shared diminishing return in the formula. Having Footman and blocking for example, if you do it with or with out max resistance the total mitigation added will change. Sure it will still always do the % mitigation that it says but the % of the base value will be lower since the part that is left for it to mitigate is lower.

I could just add an option to quick click what type of armor you use but for people that do 5,1,1 it would not b accurate enough. I want it as accurate as it can be. What it was was a good start but I am glad it turned into as big of a project as it did.

idk

I have to ask why?

Why would a tank want equal physical and spell resistance?

If we are talking high end trial tanking, which iirc most top tanks have not built for the resistance cap in 2 years, having equal resistance would mean not being optimized for the content.

Point being, if a tank wanted to be optimized for the content (s)he will make changes based on the trial and resistance would change for the expected damage, especially the higher damage that cannot be avoided.

So just asking.

paulsimonps

idk wrote: »

I have to ask why?

Why would a tank want equal physical and spell resistance?

If we are talking high end trial tanking, which iirc most top tanks have not built for the resistance cap in 2 years, having equal resistance would mean not being optimized for the content.

Point being, if a tank wanted to be optimized for the content (s)he will make changes based on the trial and resistance would change for the expected damage, especially the higher damage that cannot be avoided.

So just asking.

@idk
Because I do not want to constantly be changing, I never have, nor will I. And from the response I have been getting on this thread and other place many agree with me. A lot of people keep saying that as a end game player you need to swap all of your stuff for every encounter or trial, but it seems a lot less people actually do it than we are supposedly lead to believe.

For example I want to be able to do vAA and vHRC back to back without having to change anything. I want to be able to go into vHoF and be protected against both all the physical damage but also the shock damage. As well, in PvP you never know what to expect, you can be facing whatever, or all at the same time. This is more than just tanking at this point, and will be more widespread as I go along building it.