What do you think makes WOW so "community-ish" while ESO lacks the feeling?

mikemacon

Both WOW and ESO derive from single-player precursor games, but the Warcraft games were much more faction-oriented while TES games are laser-focused on the individual hero. You still have diehards complaining that ESO is too “group focused” and not a “real” TES game.

In all honesty, however, my experience has been that the ESO community as a whole are more welcoming and less elitist than the WOW a community.

You have your *** McDouchebags of course, but look at Twitch. I have watched some big name WOW streamers berating other players for not measuring up to this or that. By way of contrast, with some notable exceptions, the top-tier ESO streamers are just about universally calm, patient, accepting, and generally helpful. I find that to be true in most guilds (outside of trials tryhard guilds, of course...and PvP) I’ve been a part of.

Not sure why all this is so, however.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lysette

mikemacon wrote: »

Both WOW and ESO derive from single-player precursor games, but the Warcraft games were much more faction-oriented while TES games are laser-focused on the individual hero. You still have diehards complaining that ESO is too “group focused” and not a “real” TES game.

ESO is as much a "real" TES games as Octoberfest outside of Munich, Germany is "real" Octoberfest - there is nothing like the original - and ESO is just TES-themed, but as less the real thing as Octoberfest outside of Munich would be real Octoberfest.

And too group focused is correct as well - most of the *** changes to the combat systems are due to pvp.

Maryal

I don't like WOW personally, for many reasons, but I'm not here to bash that game. Everyone is different, we like what we like, we don't like what we don't like. I'm glad that ESO is different than WOW, I wouldn't have spent the past 3 years playing ESO if it were like WOW.

For people on the ESO forums that think WOW is so wonderful, perhaps they miss WOW and should go back there. On the other hand, I suppose those people could be infiltrators from WOW that have come to ESO's forums, trying to persuade us to 'abandon ship' so to speak ... um ... anyone got a spare tinfoil helmet?

Lysette

I lately had a look at BDO - black desert online - oh my, I rather play ESO and pay for it, than to get BDO for free.

mb10

I definitely think the YouTube side of things is seriously lacking in ESO. The content that gets put out is so amateurish compared to other games.

The internet. So many guides and info is legit from like 2014/15 it's so outdated.

ZOS? The whole of the console community is pushed to the side when it comes to ZOS. They never include them in anything, release DLC weeks later after the hype and spoilers have all been released, twitch drops don't work for them etc etc the community seems exclusive to PC

And maybe the final one being the ignorance of some players who think the community is great when really is quite toxic.

Wildberryjack

WoW is older, that's all there is to it.

I play WoW also but like this game better. The player base in WoW has become so jaded, they aren't overly friendly or helpful. Guilds in WoW exist only for raiding, they do nothing else at all so if you don't raid you can be in the guild in name only because there is nothing for you. Try asking for help in chat in WoW and watch the insults roll in instead of assistance. I find the bulk of the players in WoW to be quite unfriendly and downright ugly. Their "community", yeah, they can keep it.

Jeremy

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

My first question is, WoW has a community? I played the game on and off for 2 years and my highest character was a 46 warlock. I never saw a sense of community People basically solo'ed in a group. very little group play till max level, and was not group friendly at all.

Anytime i asked for help and tips in WoW i was told to f-off.

When i play ESO i saw people helping others, like giving tips in chat, giving tips on forums. ESO is not a linear game, you can play at your own pace and still do content when you get higher up.

Peekachu99 wrote: »

It’s clealy the social tools they offer. Same with FFXIV. A broken group finder, a terrible trading interface and shouting in zone chat to form groups is pathetic by any objective standards.

I don't agree with any More so the zone shouting. Also ff14 has zone shouting as well and stuff like that promotes a community. Too much automation in group finder kills community as people just don't talk.

Imo eso has more of a community then ff14 and WoW does. at least ppl talk in eso, and help each other out.

FFXIV has actual guild housing where people hang out, shoot the crap, use auctions and other services, play dress up, gamble, or group for retro dungeon crawls. They have an entire ZONE dedicated to fashion wars, emotes and completely optional player games. They have a fully featured and customizable interface for forming groups (automated or otherwise) across every level of content. You don’t shout across zone because you have a SERVER wide advertisement for your particular group in LFG.

Sorry, but you clearly aren’t familiar enough with their social tools to be offering critique.

I wish ESO had even a sliver of that social integration, but after four years it literally has next to nothing. Some serious Stolkholm syndrome to be claiming otherwise.

Final Fantasy 14 has one of the worse "communities" I've ever encountered on an MMORPG and ESO basically has guild housing. Just go to the guild leader's house. You can hang out there to "shoot the crap" or "play dress up". I really don't know what has you so impressed about Final Fantasy 14's "community". It's just a final fantasy themed WoW with shallow combat and even less build diversity.

To be honest no modern MMORPG has much of a community anymore because group-play is no longer necessary in them. They are largely solo-oriented with generic group-finding mechanisms so players don't have to form groups themselves. This makes the game more convenient and easier to access - but it comes at the cost of having to build a unified group of individuals to progress. What ever "community" there is in the modern MMORPG - it's mostly just "endgame" when guilds run raids together. And Final Fantasy 14 isn't an exception to that.

theyancey

The big difference is that most ESO gamers come from the single player Elder Scrolls universe. The cartoonish Warcraft just has nothing that comes close to matching that warchest of lore. By and large we are dedicated to the story and protective of the franchise. The two fanbases, like the games themselves, are apples and oranges.

FakeFox

I think ESO has a very MMO untypical playerbase. I haven't played WoW in I think 6 years or so, but I noticed similar things with other MMOs. ESOs community seems way more casual and single player oriented. I think this mostly comes down to two things. Firstly a lot of the playerbase comes from the single player TES games. And secondly the difficulty outside of the endgame is very low, catering to a more casual audience.

GarnetFire17

well if it seems that way, I might because there really isn't much interesting to do in Wow for solo players.

UnseenCat

ESO has community, but it's dispersed through the guilds. And since the guilds tend to use things like Discord both for in-game voice chat and as a community hub, much of it all is hidden below the surface. Some guilds are branching out with YouTube videos and Twitch streams, but they aren't necessarily at the top-level suggestion feeds for those platforms.

Drummerx04

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I can't speak of the WoW community but the FFXIV community and I got to say, the ESO community is really lacking.
I love watching any of the videos that people post on Youtube that are just purely for entertainment purposes (Where's ESO's answer to things like Leroy Jenkins on WoW or Mr. Face on FFXIV?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pIRo_ZAzls[/vid]

When the ESO community can pull off something even remotely close to that, then I'll be impressed.

Have you never heard of @Kevduit ? His videos are all about entertainment rather than BIS build videos or whatever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ1-zoVlWzE

BigBragg

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

ESO has too many antisocial design flaws that allow players to screw each other over.

This is exactly what I popped in to say. There are so many systems in play that pit players against each other instead of drawing them together.

GarnetFire17

DanteYoda wrote: »

I do not PvP so i feel no Faction pride tbh..

Never played WoW hundreds of mmorpgs but WoW was never one of them.

Its hard to have Faction Pride when I can't even remember why heck they are all fighting each other. As far as I know just want to win to put an emperor on the throne, so I think they are all basically fighting for the same reason and for nothing really inspiring.

Tetrafy

Jeremy wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

My first question is, WoW has a community? I played the game on and off for 2 years and my highest character was a 46 warlock. I never saw a sense of community People basically solo'ed in a group. very little group play till max level, and was not group friendly at all.

Anytime i asked for help and tips in WoW i was told to f-off.

When i play ESO i saw people helping others, like giving tips in chat, giving tips on forums. ESO is not a linear game, you can play at your own pace and still do content when you get higher up.

Peekachu99 wrote: »

It’s clealy the social tools they offer. Same with FFXIV. A broken group finder, a terrible trading interface and shouting in zone chat to form groups is pathetic by any objective standards.

I don't agree with any More so the zone shouting. Also ff14 has zone shouting as well and stuff like that promotes a community. Too much automation in group finder kills community as people just don't talk.

Imo eso has more of a community then ff14 and WoW does. at least ppl talk in eso, and help each other out.

FFXIV has actual guild housing where people hang out, shoot the crap, use auctions and other services, play dress up, gamble, or group for retro dungeon crawls. They have an entire ZONE dedicated to fashion wars, emotes and completely optional player games. They have a fully featured and customizable interface for forming groups (automated or otherwise) across every level of content. You don’t shout across zone because you have a SERVER wide advertisement for your particular group in LFG.

Sorry, but you clearly aren’t familiar enough with their social tools to be offering critique.

I wish ESO had even a sliver of that social integration, but after four years it literally has next to nothing. Some serious Stolkholm syndrome to be claiming otherwise.

Final Fantasy 14 has one of the worse "communities" I've ever encountered on an MMORPG and ESO basically has guild housing. Just go to the guild leader's house. You can hang out there to "shoot the crap" or "play dress up". I really don't know what has you so impressed about Final Fantasy 14's "community". It's just a final fantasy themed WoW with shallow combat and even less build diversity.

To be honest no modern MMORPG has much of a community anymore because group-play is no longer necessary in them. They are largely solo-oriented with generic group-finding mechanisms so players don't have to form groups themselves. This makes the game more convenient and easier to access - but it comes at the cost of having to build a unified group of individuals to progress. What ever "community" there is in the modern MMORPG - it's mostly just "endgame" when guilds run raids together. And Final Fantasy 14 isn't an exception to that.

What

Drummerx04

Personally I think wow's community sucks. It just happens to be bigger.

I picked the game up this January so I could play with my friend. Basically no one talked to me ever, every raid group was recruiting people with item levels that I could not get on my own because of how item drops are done, and seemingly the entire community had access to flying mounts in Legion so I'm running along on the ground on this HUGE mountainous island while dozens of people are zipping around the sky grinding dailies that take me 10 times longer to reach.

The one raid finder group I was in, I got kicked out on my first death with no explanation on a fight I had never seen before, so that's an hour of my life I'll never get back. All group finder dungeon runs I ever entered just had people sprinting through the content skipping mobs, jumping across platforms, using every movement buff in the game with nothing comparable to rapids... oh? you didn't pick that one talent that gives you a speed boost while draining your health? I guess you'll forever be 30 seconds late to every fight. Did you want to stop and look at a piece of gear for 5 seconds? Congrats, your team jumped down a concealed path and now you have no idea where the hell they went.

Wow has every single community problem ESO does. Except in ESO, you can have pretty cheap crafted gear and be 80% as effective as someone wearing BIS trials gear.

Elsonso

I was never impressed by the WoW community, in the game or out. Nothing good or bad about it, just a very neutral impression.

Comparisons with WoW are pointless, on pretty much every level. To me, being like WoW is not something for ESO to aspire for. If I wanted to play a WoW clone, I would play WoW.

Yes, ESO is a TES game. Sheesh. In every recent generation of TES games, there is always someone who says that the new game is not true to the older ones. Perks are wrong. Spells are wrong. They removed attributes and skills. Argonians walk wrong. It will be no different when TES 6 comes out. I ignore them.

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

I do not PvP so i feel no Faction pride tbh..

Its hard to have Faction Pride when I can't even remember why heck they are all fighting each other. As far as I know just want to win to put an emperor on the throne, so I think they are all basically fighting for the same reason and for nothing really inspiring.

There was more faction pride earlier in the game. The early players generated it, even as ZOS was working to eliminate it. It is not surprising that it does not exist today. They have worked hard to make sure that factions have no real meaning in the game, other than determining scores and potential combat targets in PVP.

I don't play Cyrodiil. In PVE, I don't even know what faction most of my characters are in. I has not mattered in so long that I tend to forget.

That is going to erode community, right there. The less you identify with a visible segment of the game that can be shared with others, the less you have in common with the other players. The less you have in common, the less reason you have to really interact with them on a social level.

GarnetFire17

Lysette wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Both WOW and ESO derive from single-player precursor games, but the Warcraft games were much more faction-oriented while TES games are laser-focused on the individual hero. You still have diehards complaining that ESO is too “group focused” and not a “real” TES game.

ESO is as much a "real" TES games as Octoberfest outside of Munich, Germany is "real" Octoberfest - there is nothing like the original - and ESO is just TES-themed, but as less the real thing as Octoberfest outside of Munich would be real Octoberfest.

And too group focused is correct as well - most of the *** changes to the combat systems are due to pvp.

I disagree, it is a real TES game. The single player experience is not as immersive but it is still pretty good and on par for the series. And it there is an MMO side to it as well. Not sure why anyone insists it has to be all multiplayer or all the way singleplayer friendly to be good. Not saying it could be a better but it's enjoyable at every level.

GarnetFire17

lordrichter wrote: »

I was never impressed by the WoW community, in the game or out. Nothing good or bad about it, just a very neutral impression.

Comparisons with WoW are pointless, on pretty much every level. To me, being like WoW is not something for ESO to aspire for. If I wanted to play a WoW clone, I would play WoW.

Yes, ESO is a TES game. Sheesh. In every recent generation of TES games, there is always someone who says that the new game is not true to the older ones. Perks are wrong. Spells are wrong. They removed attributes and skills. Argonians walk wrong. It will be no different when TES 6 comes out. I ignore them.

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

I do not PvP so i feel no Faction pride tbh..

Its hard to have Faction Pride when I can't even remember why heck they are all fighting each other. As far as I know just want to win to put an emperor on the throne, so I think they are all basically fighting for the same reason and for nothing really inspiring.

There was more faction pride earlier in the game. The early players generated it, even as ZOS was working to eliminate it. It is not surprising that it does not exist today. They have worked hard to make sure that factions have no real meaning in the game, other than determining scores and potential combat targets in PVP.

I don't play Cyrodiil. In PVE, I don't even know what faction most of my characters are in. I has not mattered in so long that I tend to forget.

That is going to erode community, right there. The less you identify with a visible segment of the game that can be shared with others, the less you have in common with the other players. The less you have in common, the less reason you have to really interact with them on a social level.

The only ones that will ever care about faction pride are the hardcore pvpers. They do have that pride still but are they actually playing? The problem is all the issues with balance an performance in Cyrodiil is what is causing erosion.

Danikat

Admittedly I only ever played a free 48 hour trial of WoW, several years ago now, but in that time I didn't have an single positive interaction with another person in the game.

It took me over an hour to ever see another player and when I did I said hi and got "plz leave". That repeated with everyone else I found in the area (about 4 or 5), until I wandered into a town where someone told me that of course I shouldn't go near other players - they're grinding XP or drops and if an enemy attacks me first I 'claim' the kill and the grinder gets nothing. Apparently that goes double for quest bosses - you shouldn't even go into the area if you can see another person in there, wait until they leave and then go in.

Then we were both told to stop "spamming" chat and that you shouldn't speak in town unless you have something to sell, and as I was new I couldn't have anything worth selling so I shouldn't try that either.

And so it went. Don't speak to other people, don't go near them, don't 'interfere' with groups or grinders by trying to complete quests where they might see you...

Later on people outside of the game assured me that if I'd gotten to level 40 I'd "probably" be allowed to join a guild and then I could speak to them, but that didn't exactly make the game seem more welcoming.

My experience in ESO could not be more different, and I think the game's design has a lot to do with that. It's a lot harder to interfere with other players here so there's less competition and less aggression towards other players. But I also know ESO players will go out of their way to welcome newbies. When there's been a free trial weekend or other event leading to lots of people trying the game for the first time entire guilds will head to starting zones to help them and I'm always seeing people offering to make equipment for new players or giving them advice.

As for guilds it's my opinion that in any game you get out of them what you put in. You take the time to recruit like-minded people and get to know each other and you'll get a close knit community. You recruit every random who will accept a spammed advert on the promise of a guild trader and you get a large group of random people who are only interested in having access to a trader. (For other games replace guild trader with guild hall or faction merchants or whatever other guild perks the game offers.) That's why a lot of ESO players have separate trade and social guilds.

DanteYoda

I'd assume the servers, balanced classes and skills and cash shops are vastly superior so customers have less negativity to the company than here..

Elsonso

Danikat wrote: »

It took me over an hour to ever see another player and when I did I said hi and got "plz leave".

Ahh, yeah, I had forgotten about those people. If you were on their turf, they would tell you to go away. It was their circuit, their monster, their whatever.

Now, I usually only see it in ESO when someone is trying to solo a boss or dolmen.

Valkysas154

Well i will admit i only played wow for maybe 6 months max back in the day - much more of a eq1/eq2 fan- but when i did play i did not see that great of a community infact you kinda had to pick the server / faction right or be with out a way to kill some of the big world boss's and all the zones was empty other than the expansion zone and the factions City that rules the server other factions are empty i had to do a server transfer just to see other horde players in the city !

Eso is much more populated that wow was for me ppl in every zone why in wow i was lucky to run into 1 person per hr if not in the new expansion or faction ruled city for the server

Kelces

From what I have experienced, it seems there are no communities that are really social according to the definition of that word, no matter which MMO game you play.

1. There are only opportunistic communities, called guilds. In WoW you can only join one per character seperately for example, now how would you chose? Imagine the difficulty of that choice compared to ESO, aswell as the chance staying in one of those really competitive guilds. They have standards, you know, just like certain elitists in this game. Like "what, you still go to the 2nd most recent dungeon? Go away, we don't want you anymore!" This is the sort of mentality that rules currently.

2. Gear is very specific, even special sets for certain classes and you can't put any of them in the bank for your alts. So finding some "social" enough people to help you through a trial (called raids there), just to get e few pieces at best, is slimm to none. Since someone won't take the time, even for coins, to drag people through somewhere, they don't need to go themselves anymore. Not very social there either...

3. Story, well look at the quote at point 1 again... Also, looks like we have a reroll of the theme of Warcraft 1, just compare the most recent movie trailer with the oldest story they got, just different characters. Voilá, round and round the garden. And also, people don't seem to care either, that the previous content-story, especially in the ending dodn't make much sense...

So it's essentially an equally worse situation, when you look at it socially I would say. It only shows different symptoms, according to the problems existing on different levels of the games.

Peekachu99

Tetrafy wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

My first question is, WoW has a community? I played the game on and off for 2 years and my highest character was a 46 warlock. I never saw a sense of community People basically solo'ed in a group. very little group play till max level, and was not group friendly at all.

Anytime i asked for help and tips in WoW i was told to f-off.

When i play ESO i saw people helping others, like giving tips in chat, giving tips on forums. ESO is not a linear game, you can play at your own pace and still do content when you get higher up.

Peekachu99 wrote: »

It’s clealy the social tools they offer. Same with FFXIV. A broken group finder, a terrible trading interface and shouting in zone chat to form groups is pathetic by any objective standards.

I don't agree with any More so the zone shouting. Also ff14 has zone shouting as well and stuff like that promotes a community. Too much automation in group finder kills community as people just don't talk.

Imo eso has more of a community then ff14 and WoW does. at least ppl talk in eso, and help each other out.

FFXIV has actual guild housing where people hang out, shoot the crap, use auctions and other services, play dress up, gamble, or group for retro dungeon crawls. They have an entire ZONE dedicated to fashion wars, emotes and completely optional player games. They have a fully featured and customizable interface for forming groups (automated or otherwise) across every level of content. You don’t shout across zone because you have a SERVER wide advertisement for your particular group in LFG.

Sorry, but you clearly aren’t familiar enough with their social tools to be offering critique.

I wish ESO had even a sliver of that social integration, but after four years it literally has next to nothing. Some serious Stolkholm syndrome to be claiming otherwise.

Final Fantasy 14 has one of the worse "communities" I've ever encountered on an MMORPG and ESO basically has guild housing. Just go to the guild leader's house. You can hang out there to "shoot the crap" or "play dress up". I really don't know what has you so impressed about Final Fantasy 14's "community". It's just a final fantasy themed WoW with shallow combat and even less build diversity.

To be honest no modern MMORPG has much of a community anymore because group-play is no longer necessary in them. They are largely solo-oriented with generic group-finding mechanisms so players don't have to form groups themselves. This makes the game more convenient and easier to access - but it comes at the cost of having to build a unified group of individuals to progress. What ever "community" there is in the modern MMORPG - it's mostly just "endgame" when guilds run raids together. And Final Fantasy 14 isn't an exception to that.

What

I know right? I love it when people’s rebuttals are simply: “It’z bad, m’kay!” Like no actual complaints about what is so bad. An opinion is not a fact. Objectively FFXIV has better social tools than ESO. The nature in which those tools are used as per individual behaviours and preference is another matter entirely.

Korah_Eaglecry

Aliyavana wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

wow has a faction pride that eso doesn't. Eso faction pride cant survive much as long as faction loyalty campaigns don't exist

what a load of bull

Most players feel ap>faction pride

Do us all a favor and stop pretending to speak for everyone.

Wifeaggro13

Lyserus wrote: »

Don't want to limit the discussion so I decided to not make a poll.

I want to say that I didn't play WOW for that long...I prefer the good graphic ESO provides and the combat controll is friendier. However, WOW always provides a community feeling and their Youtube channels are thirving, while ESO players all seem to keep to themselves.

What makes this happen?

I have several possible reasons, but I also want to hear from you guys.

1.First some personal experience: I kinda have the community feeling up until I decided to get a trader for my guild. I tried and tried to win a bid, but nope the competition is way too hard for a guild that only have friends and no donation/ raffle requirements. Then I took the advice from a successful trader guild leader and start mass expanding, then it just changed. I donno more than half of the ppl from my own guild, the guild member is just a number to me and I worked my ass off to try to get things done, and when rl kicks in, I just felt tired of all that, and stopped trying so hard, and the guild turned to a ghost town.

2.Too much crown? I can imagine the conversation:
"Ohh mate your mount/pet looks so cool! how do you got it?"
WOW: "Thanks I got it from xxxx/ xxxx /xxx several possible way to obtain different mounts and stuff"
ESO: "lol crown crate man"
Granted ESO does not have a forced sub, but still, the amount of items that can be obtained by in-game play are too few and only for high-tier players.

3.Too few community events that are just for fun. We do have some timely events, but those are ALWAYS around grinds. Hey I'm not saying they are not fun, but same thing can get bored when you have to do it several times to get a reward

4.Lack of QoL and inaccessible to the masses. Like housing, currently there is still no functions other than storage (which is only to high level crafters or rich ppl), and the price of house and recipes are not something for new players.

5.Lack of "community" Youtube channels. We only have "gameplay" ESO youtubers and "build" youtubers. No one seem to bother to create videos that are just for telling stories /RP. I donno if it's the cause or the sympton of ESO lacking community feeling, but there's that.

6.Lack of "progressing" stories. We have "Molag-Bal" arc in vanilla and IC, which do not encourge team up since most of main quest are solo instanced. We have "Three-Banner War" arc which is the main scene but have no story whatsoever, maybe except Orsinium. We have "DB & Thieves Guild" arc which have nothing to do with outside world story. And now "Triad" arc is concluded, the stories are great, but honestly, there is no impact on the world (Summerset we don't even get to see Ayrenn again)

How do you feel about this? share your opinions

The main reason is they began to re design the game to appeal to a single player RPG community and B2P console friendly model. the end game was based of a competitive DPS leaderboard that devalued other playstyles , Less tanking less healing more pew pew while moving and secondary utility abilities for all roles. arouund 2015 when some of the key leads left and Matt put full focus into his vision for eso it became more of a single player online experience. this type of playstyle does not foster building friendships guilds or player longevity. the game is designed to be a turn style visitors center with a gift shop (IE crown store). non of the launch guilds are here i dont think any of the guilds from post launch 2016 are here.

TazESO

UnseenCat wrote: »

ESO has community, but it's dispersed through the guilds. And since the guilds tend to use things like Discord both for in-game voice chat and as a community hub, much of it all is hidden below the surface. Some guilds are branching out with YouTube videos and Twitch streams, but they aren't necessarily at the top-level suggestion feeds for those platforms.

Yup

Kiralyn2000

A lot of things people are claiming for WoW just don't sound familiar to me from when I played.

"ESO has so many solo 'why you force grouping' players" - eh, WoW was full of them when I played, and they've just added more solo things to do since.

"Faction pride!" - sure, there were some people like that, just like there are here. But again, there were lots of PvE'ers who just didn't care and played characters on all sides. And plenty of 'cheesy' pvp players who had characters on both sides. Personally, the only good thing about "factions" to me was that it gave more starting zones & storylines to play.

"They've got better Youtube channels & streamers!"..... I still don't understand why/how this is a thing. At all. But I'm an Old. And anyway, that crap wasn't a big part of stuff back when WoW started, I think.

etc, etc, etc

---

Aaaaanyway. I'm pretty sure that the single/smaller guild aspect is a big part of it. When you actually have to belong to a group and get to know the people in it, instead of just grabbing a handful of disposable paper plates 500-man guilds from the pile, that probably contributes to feeling a part of something. Smaller servers where you can start recognizing the people chatting & wandering past you likely helps as well.
Along with the "been around for a billion years" thing. Now that we're surrounded by dozens of choices for MMOs to play, there's less need/ability to get Totally Committed to a single one. Less investment. ESO happened in a different era of gaming.

Ohtimbar

I'm glad ESO isn't a weapons-grade toxic cesspit like wow. I don't need that sort of puerile rottenness in my life.