What do you think makes WOW so "community-ish" while ESO lacks the feeling?

Lyserus

Don't want to limit the discussion so I decided to not make a poll.

I want to say that I didn't play WOW for that long...I prefer the good graphic ESO provides and the combat controll is friendier. However, WOW always provides a community feeling and their Youtube channels are thirving, while ESO players all seem to keep to themselves.

What makes this happen?

I have several possible reasons, but I also want to hear from you guys.

1.First some personal experience: I kinda have the community feeling up until I decided to get a trader for my guild. I tried and tried to win a bid, but nope the competition is way too hard for a guild that only have friends and no donation/ raffle requirements. Then I took the advice from a successful trader guild leader and start mass expanding, then it just changed. I donno more than half of the ppl from my own guild, the guild member is just a number to me and I worked my ass off to try to get things done, and when rl kicks in, I just felt tired of all that, and stopped trying so hard, and the guild turned to a ghost town.

2.Too much crown? I can imagine the conversation:
"Ohh mate your mount/pet looks so cool! how do you got it?"
WOW: "Thanks I got it from xxxx/ xxxx /xxx several possible way to obtain different mounts and stuff"
ESO: "lol crown crate man"
Granted ESO does not have a forced sub, but still, the amount of items that can be obtained by in-game play are too few and only for high-tier players.

3.Too few community events that are just for fun. We do have some timely events, but those are ALWAYS around grinds. Hey I'm not saying they are not fun, but same thing can get bored when you have to do it several times to get a reward

4.Lack of QoL and inaccessible to the masses. Like housing, currently there is still no functions other than storage (which is only to high level crafters or rich ppl), and the price of house and recipes are not something for new players.

5.Lack of "community" Youtube channels. We only have "gameplay" ESO youtubers and "build" youtubers. No one seem to bother to create videos that are just for telling stories /RP. I donno if it's the cause or the sympton of ESO lacking community feeling, but there's that.

6.Lack of "progressing" stories. We have "Molag-Bal" arc in vanilla and IC, which do not encourge team up since most of main quest are solo instanced. We have "Three-Banner War" arc which is the main scene but have no story whatsoever, maybe except Orsinium. We have "DB & Thieves Guild" arc which have nothing to do with outside world story. And now "Triad" arc is concluded, the stories are great, but honestly, there is no impact on the world (Summerset we don't even get to see Ayrenn again)

How do you feel about this? share your opinions

ImmortalCX

In wow, progress is linear, and everyone is clustered in the same area, working on the same content, at the same time. The rest of the world is a ghost town.

Its the nature of the way they roll out expansions. EVERYONE is upgrading / hunting for the same gear. Everyone MUST upgrade gear with new expansion.

Iow, everyone is funneled through the same content, while eso is more open and doesnt demand a linear progression.

Fur_like_snow

The Sunday threads.

Lyserus

ImmortalCX wrote: »

In wow, progress is linear, and everyone is clustered in the same area, working on the same content, at the same time. The rest of the world is a ghost town.

Its the nature of the way they roll out expansions. EVERYONE is upgrading / hunting for the same gear. Everyone MUST upgrade gear with new expansion.

Iow, everyone is funneled through the same content, while eso is more open and doesnt demand a linear progression.

That is a good point. New expansion boom everyone go for artifacts, next expansion boom they are useless now, but look a new grind legendary weapons!

However, that is just for ppl that are combat-focus, what about newer players who don't go into late games with the expansion right away?

Aliyavana

wow has a faction pride that eso doesn't. Eso faction pride cant survive much as long as faction loyalty campaigns don't exist

phermitgb

it's late and I'm bored, and your question intrigues me, so I'll offer some entirely personal perception comments - I do not vouch for any overall truth my statements may possess...

WOW and ESO are separated by...more than 10 years. In that time, the video game MMORPG market has, for lack of a better term, evolved - it's changed to embrace new ideas, new features, an entirely new generation of players just entering the market, and so on and so forth

ESO community is probably not going to be like a WOW community in many ways, for many reasons. ESO not only offers things WOW doesn't, but it also appeals to a very different gamer mindset than WOW did during it's opening, and for a great deal of it's lifetime. ESO is a heavily solo-accessible world. This means that there's far less of a *need* to group up with other people. I remember some of my early time with WOW (pre lich-king) and while there was a hefty amount of soloable content, there was also a rather strong necessity for grouping up for all kinds of different activities. ESO, grouping is far more *voluntary* and far less *necessary*, so it's not at all surprising that there would be more loosely-knit sense of community.

And eso DOES have community presence - it's just...less vehement, possibly a little more clique-ish if only because there's less pressure to admit large #'s of people, and a lot more casual because the actual game content is far more accessible to everyone.

I dunno - I'm sorta rambling - truth be told, I *almost* miss the strong and energetic sense of community of WOW...until I remember the TIDAL WAVES of *** that I had to slog through almost every other night...trust me, for my own part, ESO is far more appealing to me today, because while the energy may be less focused and powerful, there are also far, FAR fewer NEEDS to group up with the mountains of jackasses and dipholes that WOW seemed to have an endless supply of.

My point is, there's a cost to that strong and active sense of community that you, and occasionally I, miss - and that cost is primarily in far less accessible content, vastly larger #'s of people, and the vastly larger # of more energetic *** that a larger population engenders.

Aesthier

Actually after several years of playing in wow I found the community to be horrendous.

Now that's not to say it wasn't great at first but I find that the communities of all games to begin to degrade over time as the games get older.


While I do at times find this games community to grate on my nerves once in a while the fact is I find it to be far better than that of WoW and rightfully so as WoW is older than ESO.


Note:

Just because I find WoW's community to be terrible it does not mean that I think ESO does everything better. That only means I find the community there to be trash and should not reflect upon the game itself. I find that ESO does some things better and WoW does other things better as far as game implementation is concerned but again they are two separate games and are trying to tailor themselves to two separate ideologies.

Lyserus

phermitgb wrote: »

it's late and I'm bored, and your question intrigues me, so I'll offer some entirely personal perception comments - I do not vouch for any overall truth my statements may possess...

WOW and ESO are separated by...more than 10 years. In that time, the video game MMORPG market has, for lack of a better term, evolved - it's changed to embrace new ideas, new features, an entirely new generation of players just entering the market, and so on and so forth

ESO community is probably not going to be like a WOW community in many ways, for many reasons. ESO not only offers things WOW doesn't, but it also appeals to a very different gamer mindset than WOW did during it's opening, and for a great deal of it's lifetime. ESO is a heavily solo-accessible world. This means that there's far less of a *need* to group up with other people. I remember some of my early time with WOW (pre lich-king) and while there was a hefty amount of soloable content, there was also a rather strong necessity for grouping up for all kinds of different activities. ESO, grouping is far more *voluntary* and far less *necessary*, so it's not at all surprising that there would be more loosely-knit sense of community.

And eso DOES have community presence - it's just...less vehement, possibly a little more clique-ish if only because there's less pressure to admit large #'s of people, and a lot more casual because the actual game content is far more accessible to everyone.

I dunno - I'm sorta rambling - truth be told, I *almost* miss the strong and energetic sense of community of WOW...until I remember the TIDAL WAVES of *** that I had to slog through almost every other night...trust me, for my own part, ESO is far more appealing to me today, because while the energy may be less focused and powerful, there are also far, FAR fewer NEEDS to group up with the mountains of jackasses and dipholes that WOW seemed to have an endless supply of.

My point is, there's a cost to that strong and active sense of community that you, and occasionally I, miss - and that cost is primarily in far less accessible content, vastly larger #'s of people, and the vastly larger # of more energetic *** that a larger population engenders.

That is a very good argument mate
It is very true that ESO can be very solo-friendly while WOW can't.
Maybe that is why I want a hardcore-overworld that you can't solo quests/places and have to team up. That of course, have to be optional in ESO if implemented

Slick_007

Aliyavana wrote: »

wow has a faction pride that eso doesn't. Eso faction pride cant survive much as long as faction loyalty campaigns don't exist

what a load of bull

D0PAMINE

Aliyavana wrote: »

wow has a faction pride that eso doesn't. Eso faction pride cant survive much as long as faction loyalty campaigns don't exist

Blood for the Pact!

Aliyavana

Slick_007 wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

wow has a faction pride that eso doesn't. Eso faction pride cant survive much as long as faction loyalty campaigns don't exist

what a load of bull

Most players feel ap>faction pride

Peekachu99

It’s clealy the social tools they offer. Same with FFXIV. A broken group finder, a terrible trading interface and shouting in zone chat to form groups is pathetic by any objective standards.

Tandor

You can build a community with a single guild system under which everyone is committed to their guild for social and adventuring purposes. Trying to do so when people belong to five guilds, mostly in order to have access to the trading system is another matter altogether.

However, I question the basis of the premise. It may be true at the highest levels, but I'm still leveling up characters in both games and in ESO I'm never alone no matter where I am in the game, whereas in WoW I can't remember when I last encountered another player.

Azuramoonstar

My first question is, WoW has a community? I played the game on and off for 2 years and my highest character was a 46 warlock. I never saw a sense of community People basically solo'ed in a group. very little group play till max level, and was not group friendly at all.

Anytime i asked for help and tips in WoW i was told to f-off.

When i play ESO i saw people helping others, like giving tips in chat, giving tips on forums. ESO is not a linear game, you can play at your own pace and still do content when you get higher up.

Peekachu99 wrote: »

It’s clealy the social tools they offer. Same with FFXIV. A broken group finder, a terrible trading interface and shouting in zone chat to form groups is pathetic by any objective standards.

I don't agree with any More so the zone shouting. Also ff14 has zone shouting as well and stuff like that promotes a community. Too much automation in group finder kills community as people just don't talk.

Imo eso has more of a community then ff14 and WoW does. at least ppl talk in eso, and help each other out.

Peekachu99

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

My first question is, WoW has a community? I played the game on and off for 2 years and my highest character was a 46 warlock. I never saw a sense of community People basically solo'ed in a group. very little group play till max level, and was not group friendly at all.

Anytime i asked for help and tips in WoW i was told to f-off.

When i play ESO i saw people helping others, like giving tips in chat, giving tips on forums. ESO is not a linear game, you can play at your own pace and still do content when you get higher up.

Peekachu99 wrote: »

It’s clealy the social tools they offer. Same with FFXIV. A broken group finder, a terrible trading interface and shouting in zone chat to form groups is pathetic by any objective standards.

I don't agree with any More so the zone shouting. Also ff14 has zone shouting as well and stuff like that promotes a community. Too much automation in group finder kills community as people just don't talk.

Imo eso has more of a community then ff14 and WoW does. at least ppl talk in eso, and help each other out.

FFXIV has actual guild housing where people hang out, shoot the crap, use auctions and other services, play dress up, gamble, or group for retro dungeon crawls. They have an entire ZONE dedicated to fashion wars, emotes and completely optional player games. They have a fully featured and customizable interface for forming groups (automated or otherwise) across every level of content. You don’t shout across zone because you have a SERVER wide advertisement for your particular group in LFG.

Sorry, but you clearly aren’t familiar enough with their social tools to be offering critique.

I wish ESO had even a sliver of that social integration, but after four years it literally has next to nothing. Some serious Stolkholm syndrome to be claiming otherwise.

Runs

Lack of open world PvP along with a single guild system. IMO this really brought guilds together, at least back when I played over 10 years ago.

DanteYoda

I do not PvP so i feel no Faction pride tbh..

Never played WoW hundreds of mmorpgs but WoW was never one of them.

Silver_Strider

I can't speak of the WoW community but the FFXIV community and I got to say, the ESO community is really lacking.
I love watching any of the videos that people post on Youtube that are just purely for entertainment purposes (Where's ESO's answer to things like Leroy Jenkins on WoW or Mr. Face on FFXIV?)



When the ESO community can pull off something even remotely close to that, then I'll be impressed.

JJBoomer

radical acceptance. The people of WoW have accepted the environment in which they play, and are focused on just playing the game and having fun. something the community of ESO has yet to do. in this community people are still trying to control everything and make everything perfect which it will never be. People here still prefer getting angry instead of just playing what has been presented or moving on to something else if they can't enjoy it.

Doctordarkspawn

The exclusivity of the design.

In WoW, you play a class a certain way because that's what your rotation and class roll is but you choose that going in and the game trains you to play that way.

In ESO, you play a certain way because the design is very pidgeon-holey and there's alot of misleading design, which causes players to react differently. AKA, more elitist, more toxic, because they get so many people who just miss the signs.

Doctordarkspawn

Tandor wrote: »

You can build a community with a single guild system under which everyone is committed to their guild for social and adventuring purposes. Trying to do so when people belong to five guilds, mostly in order to have access to the trading system is another matter altogether.

However, I question the basis of the premise. It may be true at the highest levels, but I'm still leveling up characters in both games and in ESO I'm never alone no matter where I am in the game, whereas in WoW I can't remember when I last encountered another player.

You're also playing on a singular server with most of a large continent on it while ESO has multiple servers.

That's half the population shtick.

Mureel

Lyserus wrote: »

phermitgb wrote: »

it's late and I'm bored, and your question intrigues me, so I'll offer some entirely personal perception comments - I do not vouch for any overall truth my statements may possess...

WOW and ESO are separated by...more than 10 years. In that time, the video game MMORPG market has, for lack of a better term, evolved - it's changed to embrace new ideas, new features, an entirely new generation of players just entering the market, and so on and so forth

ESO community is probably not going to be like a WOW community in many ways, for many reasons. ESO not only offers things WOW doesn't, but it also appeals to a very different gamer mindset than WOW did during it's opening, and for a great deal of it's lifetime. ESO is a heavily solo-accessible world. This means that there's far less of a *need* to group up with other people. I remember some of my early time with WOW (pre lich-king) and while there was a hefty amount of soloable content, there was also a rather strong necessity for grouping up for all kinds of different activities. ESO, grouping is far more *voluntary* and far less *necessary*, so it's not at all surprising that there would be more loosely-knit sense of community.

And eso DOES have community presence - it's just...less vehement, possibly a little more clique-ish if only because there's less pressure to admit large #'s of people, and a lot more casual because the actual game content is far more accessible to everyone.

I dunno - I'm sorta rambling - truth be told, I *almost* miss the strong and energetic sense of community of WOW...until I remember the TIDAL WAVES of *** that I had to slog through almost every other night...trust me, for my own part, ESO is far more appealing to me today, because while the energy may be less focused and powerful, there are also far, FAR fewer NEEDS to group up with the mountains of jackasses and dipholes that WOW seemed to have an endless supply of.

My point is, there's a cost to that strong and active sense of community that you, and occasionally I, miss - and that cost is primarily in far less accessible content, vastly larger #'s of people, and the vastly larger # of more energetic *** that a larger population engenders.

That is a very good argument mate
It is very true that ESO can be very solo-friendly while WOW can't.
Maybe that is why I want a hardcore-overworld that you can't solo quests/places and have to team up. That of course, have to be optional in ESO if implemented

Same here. But watch out because you'll get flamed and shot down by farmers, and others who think everyone should have access to everything and everywhere at lvl 3 - then accuse you of you wanting to keep all the Nirncrux to yourself when you already know all traits and have all the NC weapons you could ever need and when you can basically use transmute stones to get free NC if you ever cannot afford a whole 11k to buy one.

There are so many solo players/farmers, that no one else is 'allowed' to expect anything other than the same 7 trials (all but 2 being 2-4 years old) we've all already been doing - because we should just do trials in groups of 12, so that all the solo players can have 100% of the rest of overland to themselves.

Everyone but a few will rail at the sky to prevent anyone having 1% of overland that's risky/hard.

Mureel

Slick_007 wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

wow has a faction pride that eso doesn't. Eso faction pride cant survive much as long as faction loyalty campaigns don't exist

what a load of bull

No it's really not. Here, people are free to go in same campaign with characters from all 3 factions at a whim. If people can side swap so easily- there's not going to be enough faction pride to create unity within any one faction.

Adernath

For me it's the option to join 5 guilds. At first this may sound awesome, but in reality I never had this true identification and commitment to a single guild than I had in WoW.

Then we really really need faction pride in ESO. I also wish we had exclusive faction themed items and gimmicks obtainable in the game only for a specific faction.

Same goes for classes. I would like to see more class diversity, even if it would be just cosmetic stuff.

I like to have a story for every region in ESO, but we also need a continuation of the main story quest some day. In WoW the entire game world is evolving every large expansion, making everything new and exciting.

I love that old ESO content is not intended to get obsolete with a new expansion, but on the other hand the new content in ESO is just too simple for my taste. In WoW new content is not designed for newbies and this makes it much more exciting. ESO is also a little too simple nowadays with the cp creep every expansion: Currently a Harvester in vICP has around the same strength as a Harvester at the beginning of the game in open world.

Jurand80

phermitgb wrote: »

.

I dunno - I'm sorta rambling - truth be told, I *almost* miss the strong and energetic sense of community of WOW...until I remember the TIDAL WAVES of *** that I had to slog through almost every other night...trust me, for my own part, ESO is far more appealing to me today, because while the energy may be less focused and powerful, there are also far, FAR fewer NEEDS to group up with the mountains of jackasses and dipholes that WOW seemed to have an endless supply of.
.

We call them pugs in eso.

Gnortranermara

ESO has too many antisocial design flaws that allow players to screw each other over.

TheInfernalRage

Many times, when the game is that good you really have no time to care for any sense of community.

Peekachu99

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765127329

Like I literally just popped over there after checking out this topic, and that’s WoW’s contiued and rather amazing push for social integration and tools.

What ZOS does (doesn’t do) in this regard should no longer be hand-waved or dismissed simply because their IP is so strong. It’s an embarrassment next to any competitor’s offering, and it’s insulting to the player base.

LadyNalcarya

There's too many strictly solo players who complain about "forced grouping" and stuff. Skyrim was a very popular game, you see...
I agree that this game would be much better if it had more social/community features. But I'm not sure if they would improve it since we have a lot of people who absolutely despise other players and group activities. Or maybe not a lot, maybe they're just very vocal. Idk.

Slick_007

the biggest difference is guilds. not that you can join 5, but that you arent joining to play with the people in it. Its about trade guilds and the more people in your guild, the more likely you can afford a trader. So people just run around inviting every person without even talking to them.
One of the guilds im in, it was weeks before i saw anyone in the chat. Not all my guilds are like that. But they are about trade. And not all guilds are about trade. The ones that arent are likely very different and align with wow guilds much more.

im not saying trade guilds are bad. 2 of my trade guilds are extremely friendly and we all get on really well. 2 of them, not as much.

Lysette

IMO there is nothing wrong with a community, who cares for the game and is discussing it on the forums and providing feedback, eventually get to know each other this way as well - but who keep to their own in game for the most part.

TES has been single player, do not forget this, that it is now an MMO does not make a big part of the community to like playing together with others - they are here, because ESO is the ONLY NEW TES content - a lot are not here to play with and even less to play against others. ESO is to the most part a single player MMO, where we can join with others, but don't have to. And this is fine as it is, there is no good reason to want a toxic combat-centric community like in so many other MMOs.