bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »Oh look a casual carebear scrub JK JK tho I do admit we could do with more heavily mechanics based enemies, like have a super weak enemy with 100k health but with mechanics that catch players off guard
NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--
It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss
The health is way to high for 4 man group of newbs
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--
It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss
Why mmorpg genre is dying, in a nutshell.
This is not an ESO specific issue. All MMORPGs I've played since wow had this very same issue.
I'm more a fan of spamming buttons than sweating with blocks and break free and interrupts. I hate rock/paper/scissors mechanics, especially when they're far too common on even the weakest enemies and not even done as good as other examples I have seen.
I game to relax with optional challenges, not be annoyed by piranhas.
A good PvE experience should do a lot more than just asking you to mash some buttons in the correct order. That is just repetetive and anti-fun. Positioning, exploiting enemy weakness,stealth mechanics, learning enemy AI patterns and so many other stuff that should be there, is missing in ESO PvE.
...
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »As for Plague Doctor... @Doctordarkspawn
This is just one... ONE boss with high health.
Also, you forgot to mention that there are mechanics involved in that fight where you get enormous ultimate generation, making it for a quicker kill.
While comparing this boss to Xal Nur, which fight do you think takes longer?
EDIT: Plague Doctor takes less than two minutes to kill.
Still lazy design, and criticism of it for being so isn't wrong.
Xal-Nur had actual depth to it, as much depth as an MMO boss can have. Mortieu has a fairly forced mechanic that puts strain on one third of the holy trinity and the rest on rapid DPS.
By your own admission, it takes less than two minutes, it's a DPS race, which makes the high health all the more insulting. That ZOS cant program a bossfight that's more then a straight DPS race that they need to inflate the health pool to a point where it has to matter.
And that says far more about ZOS then the people critisizing ZOS. As much as you seem to hate them for merely speaking an opinion.
Its not a dps race, it has the mechanics. -_-
Mechanics that, clearly, didn't warrant enough player involvement or incentive -not- to burn them, given it apparently needed 10M health.
I was also slightly surprised to see that boss with 10mil health the first time. I can only assume ZOS wanted the mechanics to play out without having 'down time'. Say the first mechanic happens, the NPCs have dialog, you kill the imps (from memory?), and then the NPC grabs the resources, spends more time making an antidote/potion and then provides it to you in the middle of the room. It'd be a pretty boring fight if he was completely invulnerable during the poison phases until an antidote was ready. On the other hand, if it was only invulnerable until the first two scamps died, then there's enough forced NPC dialog during the 'potion mixing and distribution' phase (a good 10-15s) that you can get out a bunch of dmg. Then add the mechanic of the extra guard spawning after each antidote, _and_ that ZOS probably wanted most people to experience the different versions, at minimum of 5 mil starts to become understandable.
I seem to recall places like the flesh sculptor in ICP never used to go invulnerable to start with either? IIRC it was only added once DPS increased enough to burn through?
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »As for Plague Doctor... @Doctordarkspawn
This is just one... ONE boss with high health.
Also, you forgot to mention that there are mechanics involved in that fight where you get enormous ultimate generation, making it for a quicker kill.
While comparing this boss to Xal Nur, which fight do you think takes longer?
EDIT: Plague Doctor takes less than two minutes to kill.
Still lazy design, and criticism of it for being so isn't wrong.
Xal-Nur had actual depth to it, as much depth as an MMO boss can have. Mortieu has a fairly forced mechanic that puts strain on one third of the holy trinity and the rest on rapid DPS.
By your own admission, it takes less than two minutes, it's a DPS race, which makes the high health all the more insulting. That ZOS cant program a bossfight that's more then a straight DPS race that they need to inflate the health pool to a point where it has to matter.
And that says far more about ZOS then the people critisizing ZOS. As much as you seem to hate them for merely speaking an opinion.
Its not a dps race, it has the mechanics. -_-
Mechanics that, clearly, didn't warrant enough player involvement or incentive -not- to burn them, given it apparently needed 10M health.
I was also slightly surprised to see that boss with 10mil health the first time. I can only assume ZOS wanted the mechanics to play out without having 'down time'. Say the first mechanic happens, the NPCs have dialog, you kill the imps (from memory?), and then the NPC grabs the resources, spends more time making an antidote/potion and then provides it to you in the middle of the room. It'd be a pretty boring fight if he was completely invulnerable during the poison phases until an antidote was ready. On the other hand, if it was only invulnerable until the first two scamps died, then there's enough forced NPC dialog during the 'potion mixing and distribution' phase (a good 10-15s) that you can get out a bunch of dmg. Then add the mechanic of the extra guard spawning after each antidote, _and_ that ZOS probably wanted most people to experience the different versions, at minimum of 5 mil starts to become understandable.
I seem to recall places like the flesh sculptor in ICP never used to go invulnerable to start with either? IIRC it was only added once DPS increased enough to burn through?
I’ve been in fights on the plague doctor where there were only 2 antidote phases.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Oh yeah... @Doctordarkspawn
"Bosses have too much heath" is suuuuuuch constructive feedback.
Which bosses have too much health?
And how much is your DPS?
Once we have those two CRUCIAL pieces of information, then we can talk constructively.
Until then...
Stop whining.
The one example off the top of my head is Plague Concoctor Mortieu, who has ten mil health and a mechanically heavy bossfight. It spews poison alot, demands split-second positioning of the tank in a way no other boss does and holds the fight up itself alot by making the DPS murder adds for reagents so they can stop the horrific poison damage meaning the health pool is going to feel twice as long as it actually is.
And none. I'm a tank. For the sake of example assume each DPS is pulling at least 20 so I dont want to kill myself. That's 40 per second at optimal conditions.
And I really dont expect you to be constructive reguardless of what information I give, especially since you're still spewing insults and presuming I'm whining because you dont actually care about the topic whatsoever. So please. Suprise me.
Hell, I'll even give you a counter-example of what and why a good health set is. Xal-Nur. Xal-Nur has around 2M 400K health. S'rather small. It's also a mechanic heavy fight where the game deliberately makes him invincible so you must do mechanics in order to not make him last all of a few minutes. It's a time where mechanics that deliberately hold up the fight have a health pool that both suggests and compliments this style as opposed to Mortieu which just holds the players up for a half hour. One clearly had thought and purpose put into it's design, the other clearly had a lack thereof and a large health pool to compensate. Puting pressure on one part of the trinity to perform is one thing, just making them do it for longer for no real reason is another.
As for Plague Doctor... @Doctordarkspawn
This is just one... ONE boss with high health.
Also, you forgot to mention that there are mechanics involved in that fight where you get enormous ultimate generation, making it for a quicker kill.
While comparing this boss to Xal Nur, which fight do you think takes longer?
EDIT: Plague Doctor takes less than two minutes to kill.
starkerealm wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »As for Plague Doctor... @Doctordarkspawn
This is just one... ONE boss with high health.
Also, you forgot to mention that there are mechanics involved in that fight where you get enormous ultimate generation, making it for a quicker kill.
While comparing this boss to Xal Nur, which fight do you think takes longer?
EDIT: Plague Doctor takes less than two minutes to kill.
Still lazy design, and criticism of it for being so isn't wrong.
Xal-Nur had actual depth to it, as much depth as an MMO boss can have. Mortieu has a fairly forced mechanic that puts strain on one third of the holy trinity and the rest on rapid DPS.
By your own admission, it takes less than two minutes, it's a DPS race, which makes the high health all the more insulting. That ZOS cant program a bossfight that's more then a straight DPS race that they need to inflate the health pool to a point where it has to matter.
And that says far more about ZOS then the people critisizing ZOS. As much as you seem to hate them for merely speaking an opinion.
Its not a dps race, it has the mechanics. -_-
Mechanics that, clearly, didn't warrant enough player involvement or incentive -not- to burn them, given it apparently needed 10M health.
I was also slightly surprised to see that boss with 10mil health the first time. I can only assume ZOS wanted the mechanics to play out without having 'down time'. Say the first mechanic happens, the NPCs have dialog, you kill the imps (from memory?), and then the NPC grabs the resources, spends more time making an antidote/potion and then provides it to you in the middle of the room. It'd be a pretty boring fight if he was completely invulnerable during the poison phases until an antidote was ready. On the other hand, if it was only invulnerable until the first two scamps died, then there's enough forced NPC dialog during the 'potion mixing and distribution' phase (a good 10-15s) that you can get out a bunch of dmg. Then add the mechanic of the extra guard spawning after each antidote, _and_ that ZOS probably wanted most people to experience the different versions, at minimum of 5 mil starts to become understandable.
I seem to recall places like the flesh sculptor in ICP never used to go invulnerable to start with either? IIRC it was only added once DPS increased enough to burn through?
As far as I know, the point of continuing to burn him through the Attronach phase was always to cull out the Attros before they could enrage. With enough damage, they'd just melt in the AoEs and could be safely ignored, it wasn't about trying to melt him before he got through. That said, I took a break from the game when Imperial City launched, because I was suffering from horrible load screens, so, if he didn't have immunity for a couple patches, I could have missed that.
bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »Oh look a casual carebear scrub JK JK tho I do admit we could do with more heavily mechanics based enemies, like have a super weak enemy with 100k health but with mechanics that catch players off guard
vMA: enemies with low HP but very high damage abilities ;
I think the problem lies in the genre itself.
Mechanics are what are used in this genre to make fights more engaging... The more health they have, the more mechanics you do.
I wonder what will happen when mmorpg developers will finally realize how a proper AI would impact the gameplay in a positive way.
Like, I don't know, having a boss capable of recognizing AoE dots and, instead of stepping in it like a child in a pond, it circles them...
Or a boss that recognises your attacks and actively dodges them...
I don't know, these are things that the videogame industry has known for a long time, but it seem that the mmorpg genre lives in a parallel world where the only few concepts of hostile NPC are:
-give them gazillions of HP
-give them some stat check mechanics, punishing player with one shot attacks when those checks are not satisfied (dps races for example)
-make them braindead turrets, only capable of spamming basic attacks, waiting for the next cooldown to wear off in order to use the first skill they have available at the time
-give them health values thresholds in order to make mechanics kick in
That's why I usually enjoy more PvP in a game than PvE.