-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

NeetoCheeto1

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss
The health is way to high for 4 man group of newbs

Chilly-McFreeze

Don't know if troll or serious.

Destruent

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss
The health is way to high for 4 man group of newbs

You can use barswap and ultimate to use 12 buttons

Milvan

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss
The health is way to high for 4 man group of newbs

Instead of asking for a health nerf, why don't you ask for more intense and mindful mechanics that requires not only dps but also awareness?

Acrolas

Mechanics don't always translate into engaging content.

I think the bigger problem is that the "boss fight" concept is becoming outdated. It was fine in side-scrollers when bosses acted as gatekeepers who changed color and blinked before disappearing in a puff of smoke and points.

But with more complex environments and character motives, I'm wondering if dungeons wouldn't benefit from more objectives-based goals with mobs of varying strengths (including a few functionally immortal ones) preventing you from reaching those goals.

Starting *** with some guards in a city shouldn't be more fascinating and challenging combat than paid content.

Olen_Mikko

Then i suggest to learn even the basics of dealing damage.

In a nutshell;

Damage scales differently;
- If you're magicka, use staves and skills that uses magicka. Spell damage is calculated from max magicka.
- If you're stamina, use weapons and skills that uses magicka. Weapon damage is calculated from max stamina.
- Hybrids don't work very well. So either stack all attributes to magicka or stamina.

Dont just randomly smash buttons. Use simple rotations. First, buff yourself / debuff enemies with skills that, for example, gives brutality, savegery, sorcery, prophecy, berserk, fracture, breach etc.

Rotation could be in simplest: Main dps skill -> Light attack - damage over time - light attack - main dps - light attack and so on. When enemy is in execute range (50 % - 25 %) start spamming execute skills (the ones that gives huge damage bonus to low health enemies) instead of main dps.

If you're still struggling, check your gear. Wouldn't hurt to have like at least one full 5-piece set and maybe 3x same jewelry + 4 piece set. If you're new player and can't craft, join some friendly guilds that'll help.

Happy hunting guys and gals!

TheCyberDruid

Selene (for example) has a bit under 1.3m health, so if you need 15 minutes with 4 people... I think it is literally impossible to kill her that slow. Given if the DPS in your group do less than 10k dps then it takes quite some time, but reading that you 'hit 5 buttons' the issue might be easily solved with a bit of Google usage.

VaranisArano

Is this a Normal or a Veteran dungeon boss?

If its normal, as suggested by the 4 man group of newbs, I suggest those of you who queued as Damage Dealers go check out your DPS on a training dummy (add-ons like combat metrics or FTC for PC). Many guilds will have one or you can ask in zone chat for someone to left you use their house to check your DPS.

If your DPS isn't up to where you want it, start researching a good rotation of damage skills for your class. For normal dungeons, you should aim for at least 10k to 15k DPS.

If this is a veteran dungeon and your DPS is up to snuff, then its probably a failure to obey mechanics. I've been there having frustrating long battles when our group DPS was on the low side and we were learning the mechanics. Thw lower the group DPS, the more important obeying the mechanics becomes, so I'd recommend reading or watching a guide on the mechanics.

Either way, a 15 minute boss fight in a dungeon means something isn't quite right. Most likely, its low group DPS or failure to understand and obey mechanics.

zaria

VaranisArano wrote: »

Is this a Normal or a Veteran dungeon boss?

If its normal, as suggested by the 4 man group of newbs, I suggest those of you who queued as Damage Dealers go check out your DPS on a training dummy (add-ons like combat metrics or FTC for PC). Many guilds will have one or you can ask in zone chat for someone to left you use their house to check your DPS.

If your DPS isn't up to where you want it, start researching a good rotation of damage skills for your class. For normal dungeons, you should aim for at least 10k to 15k DPS.

If this is a veteran dungeon and your DPS is up to snuff, then its probably a failure to obey mechanics. I've been there having frustrating long battles when our group DPS was on the low side and we were learning the mechanics. Thw lower the group DPS, the more important obeying the mechanics becomes, so I'd recommend reading or watching a guide on the mechanics.

Either way, a 15 minute boss fight in a dungeon means something isn't quite right. Most likely, its low group DPS or failure to understand and obey mechanics.

This, still remember the horrible vet direfrost fight low cp healer and none knew the mechanic, I blocked a lot so was always out of stamina. Yes I should obviously used shields rather than block, 3 stat or stamina potions.
Did it later on stamblade and it was an easy fight just keep some reserve stamina.

Think boss health is fitted well, main outlier is the plague boss in Scalecaller Peak who has 5M on normal far more than last boss, is is simply so you can not easy burn past mechanic.

PlagueSD

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss
The health is way to high for 4 man group of newbs

If it's taking you 15 minutes to kill a dungeon boss, you're doing it wrong.

zaria

PlagueSD wrote: »

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss
The health is way to high for 4 man group of newbs

If it's taking you 15 minutes to kill a dungeon boss, you're doing it wrong.

This, take an 8M health boss with 30K group dps and boss will be dead in less than 5 minutes. 30K group dps is low.
Granted you have fights there boss is immune a lot and you have to focus on adds.

For normal the non dlc only have low health bosses. I guess boss is healed and none kills or interrupt healers.
The 1 normal's don't have any hard kill mechanic so with competent tank or healer you can not die.

Shantu

Since your newbs, you're probably running normal dungeons. If it's taking you 15 minutes to burn down a 1.5 mil boss, your 2 dd's are doing doing less than 1k dps. Heck, if 2 dd's are taking 15 minutes to burn a vet 5 mil boss, that's only around 3k dps. The problem here is not with the health of the boss.

PlagueSD

zaria wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss
The health is way to high for 4 man group of newbs

If it's taking you 15 minutes to kill a dungeon boss, you're doing it wrong.

This, take an 8M health boss with 30K group dps and boss will be dead in less than 5 minutes. 30K group dps is low.
Granted you have fights there boss is immune a lot and you have to focus on adds.

For normal the non dlc only have low health bosses. I guess boss is healed and none kills or interrupt healers.
The 1 normal's don't have any hard kill mechanic so with competent tank or healer you can not die.

Or it's the last boss in Direfrost keep, Drodda of Icereach. That boss is a PUG killer. You MUST break free from her heal ability or she'll just keep healing back to full health.

Flowersquisher

If it takes you 15min to kill a dungeon boss, even a dlc, maybe your just..... well.... not hitting the boss, ya try that. Oh, and bar swap, there is 5 more buttons to use, and every 30sec or so try using your ultimate.

Honestly though, work on your rotation if you want to be a dps, otherwise you might as well be a dpm. You realize that you would have to miss 3 of 4 attacks to achieve the 15min threshold. I'm sorry for being a ****, but man..... just wow. Health on bosses is fine btw, not the problem.

Ragebull

High health bosses >>>>> annoying mechanics

Didaco

I think the problem lies in the genre itself.

Mechanics are what are used in this genre to make fights more engaging... The more health they have, the more mechanics you do.
I wonder what will happen when mmorpg developers will finally realize how a proper AI would impact the gameplay in a positive way.

Like, I don't know, having a boss capable of recognizing AoE dots and, instead of stepping in it like a child in a pond, it circles them...

Or a boss that recognises your attacks and actively dodges them...

I don't know, these are things that the videogame industry has known for a long time, but it seem that the mmorpg genre lives in a parallel world where the only few concepts of hostile NPC are:

-give them gazillions of HP
-give them some stat check mechanics, punishing player with one shot attacks when those checks are not satisfied (dps races for example)
-make them braindead turrets, only capable of spamming basic attacks, waiting for the next cooldown to wear off in order to use the first skill they have available at the time
-give them health values thresholds in order to make mechanics kick in

That's why I usually enjoy more PvP in a game than PvE.

Drdeath20

Thats kinda the point.

Bosses are suppose to be a pain. ZoS has gotten better with their dlc bosses.

NeetoCheeto1

1. I use controller
2. Not troll post
3. No matter how good I am doesn't matter your in group
4. I am in a group of 3 randos no clue there abilty
5. Controller uses 6 Buttons -1 cause its a ultimate
6. You can swap weapons to change to add additional action bars

VaranisArano

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

1. I use controller
2. Not troll post
3. No matter how good I am doesn't matter your in group
4. I am in a group of 3 randos no clue there abilty
5. Controller uses 6 Buttons -1 cause its a ultimate
6. You can swap weapons to change to add additional action bars

1. Cool. I'm not sure how that changes your DPS rotations since I use a keyboard.
2. Cool, good to know.
3. Uh, again, which boss? Normal dungeon boss or Vet? Unless the group DPS is super low or you and your group don't understand the mechanics, it should not take you 15 minutes to kill a boss. That's not normal. It normally takes me about 15 minutes to complete a normal dungeon.
4. If it took you 15 minutes, their ability was really bad. Low DPS and/or didn't follow the mechanics are th elikely culprits depending on the boss.
5-6. And Keyboard uses 6 buttons: 1,2,3,4,5, and R for the ultimate, with the tilde key for weapon swap. Ideally, a DPS rotation uses all 10 skill abilities, which perhaps you are, but I think that the confusion between 6 buttons and 12 skills is why people are questioning that comment.


Look, if you are just here to complain about boss health and the boringness of pressing a series of buttons in a combat rotation for an interminable amount of time, go right ahead. I'm sure we've all had bad PUGs in groupfinder that turned an easy run into a PITA.

But most dungeon bosses shouldn't take a group 15 minutes, even a random group of newbs, unless there's something wrong with the DPS or the knowledge of the mechanics. If you'd actually like help, it'd be nice to know the specific dungeon and boss. I know I've once had a 10-minute fight against Cirenas in normal FG2 because the the two DPS sucked and they stupidly killed the spiders after being warned not to so my 10k DPS as a tank was effectively cut to 2k by the boss resistances. That sucked, but it wasn't the usual state of affairs.

A 15 minute boss fight isn't normal. Its an indication that group DPS is very low for the content or the group isn't following mechanics. So in my experience, a 15 minute boss fight isn't something ZOS needs to change. Its an indication that something went wrong with the group.

Hope that helps, and if you want specific advice on the boss or help identifying what went wrong, let us know.

TheUndeadAmulet

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the second to last boss in scalecaller peak... Literally just sit there and wail on him and his adds until he dies, none of his mechanics are actually dangerous besides the pipe thingy, but only the tank needs to worry about that.

NeetoCheeto1

Right Click and press Open in a New tab to view
If there is easy way to upload pics please let me know ty

zaria

PlagueSD wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss
The health is way to high for 4 man group of newbs

If it's taking you 15 minutes to kill a dungeon boss, you're doing it wrong.

This, take an 8M health boss with 30K group dps and boss will be dead in less than 5 minutes. 30K group dps is low.
Granted you have fights there boss is immune a lot and you have to focus on adds.

For normal the non dlc only have low health bosses. I guess boss is healed and none kills or interrupt healers.
The 1 normal's don't have any hard kill mechanic so with competent tank or healer you can not die.

Or it's the last boss in Direfrost keep, Drodda of Icereach. That boss is a PUG killer. You MUST break free from her heal ability or she'll just keep healing back to full health.

Yes, she was an nightmare on my first run, low cp healer and none knew the mechanics, I blocked a lot who was not an good idea on an magic build and nobody understood why the boss healed.
You need enough stamina to break free, on an stamina dps she was trivial as long as you had an reserve and the other three knew that they was doing.

DanteYoda

I agree "spike damage" and "hit point sponge bosses" are not what i consider challenging content.. Kinda over dungeons in mmos these days..

Virtual entertainment seems to have stagnated since 2002..

Jameliel

Milvan wrote: »

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss
The health is way to high for 4 man group of newbs

Instead of asking for a health nerf, why don't you ask for more intense and mindful mechanics that requires not only dps but also awareness?

The only mechanics z0$ knows are colored circles/orbs/lasers. Zzzz

Olen_Mikko

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

Right Click and press Open in a New tab to view
If there is easy way to upload pics please let me know ty

Use imgur and just copy the link

Mystrius_Archaion

I very much miss and reminisce about how City of Heroes handled difficulty and group content, especially what was to come before it got shutdown prematurely.

In that game, difficulty sliders changed enemy levels and enemy numbers from +0 levels/+0 numbers up to +3 levels/+8 numbers, which the latter was sometimes additive and sometimes multiplicative, and every number in between. You could even make it +0/+8 which would give you hordes of weaker enemies for feeling like a one man army.
There was also "The Positron Taskforce" which they redid to have 8 bosses, one for each group member, which were shadows of the group members using their same power sets. They didn't have extra health like most bosses but they could buff each other and made it a truly unique variable challenge, or easier depending on difficulty but still not truly easy.

That was amazing and always made me feel powerful and satisfied. It's too bad the spandex-clad superhero genre wasn't that big back then, or now really, and the same ideas were never translated to a high-fantasy game.

Mystrius_Archaion

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

Right Click and press Open in a New tab to view
If there is easy way to upload pics please let me know ty

Like this?

I did that by doing what you said then right clicking your picture in the source link and clicking "open image in new tab" and copying that address bar "https://preview.ibb.co/dnHp1o/Screenshot_20180714_203853.png&quot; with "img /img" tags.
This forum is tricky, but it works best with direct links to images without the extra background page elements.

Edit:
I suppose I could have gotten the correct address by also clicking "copy image address" instead of "open image in new tab".

Ragnarock41

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss

Why mmorpg genre is dying, in a nutshell.

This is not an ESO specific issue. All MMORPGs I've played since wow had this very same issue. On the bright side, you really don't need to do HM content for gearing up.

Mystrius_Archaion

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss

Why mmorpg genre is dying, in a nutshell.

This is not an ESO specific issue. All MMORPGs I've played since wow had this very same issue.

I'm more a fan of spamming buttons than sweating with blocks and break free and interrupts. I hate rock/paper/scissors mechanics, especially when they're far too common on even the weakest enemies and not even done as good as other examples I have seen.

I game to relax with optional challenges, not be annoyed by piranhas.

Ragnarock41

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss

Why mmorpg genre is dying, in a nutshell.

This is not an ESO specific issue. All MMORPGs I've played since wow had this very same issue.

I'm more a fan of spamming buttons than sweating with blocks and break free and interrupts. I hate rock/paper/scissors mechanics, especially when they're far too common on even the weakest enemies and not even done as good as other examples I have seen.

I game to relax with optional challenges, not be annoyed by piranhas.

A good PvE experience should do a lot more than just asking you to mash some buttons in the correct order. That is just repetetive and anti-fun. Positioning, exploiting enemy weakness,stealth mechanics, learning enemy AI patterns and so many other stuff that should be there, is missing in ESO PvE.

And its exactly why the PvE is bad , and why the community is constantly craving new content. But as I said in my first post, this is not exclusive to ESO. Every WOW clone mmorpg out there has done the exact same thing and got the exact same results. ESO is no exception, and as a result the community are mostly people who want to relax and chat with their friends while finishing vet Blackheart haven for the 10000th time, instead of people who would want to experience some unique PvE experience.

Since 2000s, nothing, literally nothing really changed about MMORPG experience, that I almost want to puke when I think about doing a dungeon. This whole mmorpg genre desperately craves innovation.

Edit:Also I would like to add, when hard mode means extra hp on the boss, it is just lazy gameplay design. On this example I suggest you to make a research on left 4 dead 2's realism mode, and the metro's ranger hardcore mode, both are examples of ''how to do hard mode right''.

Mystrius_Archaion

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss

Why mmorpg genre is dying, in a nutshell.

This is not an ESO specific issue. All MMORPGs I've played since wow had this very same issue.

I'm more a fan of spamming buttons than sweating with blocks and break free and interrupts. I hate rock/paper/scissors mechanics, especially when they're far too common on even the weakest enemies and not even done as good as other examples I have seen.

I game to relax with optional challenges, not be annoyed by piranhas.

A good PvE experience should do a lot more than just asking you to mash some buttons in the correct order. That is just repetetive and anti-fun.

Fun is relative, which is why games like Farmville and Solitaire and "Bubble Witch Saga" and many more are so popular. Sometimes we just want relatively mindless games with great graphics.
I like to mod godmode on Skyrim, for example. You think that makes the game boring? Well, I don't think that because I play to feel strong, which is mostly opposite of my real world stature, and to look as cool as possible with many customization options.

I'm in ESO for the high-fantasy theme and graphics, not any sort of challenge. I constantly wish for cheats, sanctioned by the developers of course such as if they would give me an "easy mode" solo option for everything. This makes me also hate when cosmetics that would make me(my character) look cool are locked behind the "hardest mode".

I really do not find it fun when my character is stuck not able to do absolutely every action I have either because of running out of resources or silence, stun or needing to interrupt or dodge. I like stealth and positioning and strategy, but I do not like "twitch twitch" reaction games that play like the dreaded Battletoads Tubro Tunnel #CarpalTunnelForLife

One person's "fun challenging content" is many more people's "annoying and frustrating barrier to fun", which both are technically a barrier but one enjoys "banging his head against the barrier".