-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

Mystrius_Archaion

Dubhliam wrote: »

Why is the first instinct of every person to ask for an easier time?
Nobody wants to work on themselves anymore.

We paid for "the privilege of working harder"?

My real life and time/money value is an issue here. I want fun, not grind.

Chrysa1is

Do you want a skip boss fight button? Like game journalists did for Cuphead because it was too hard?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Why is the first instinct of every person to ask for an easier time?
Nobody wants to work on themselves anymore.

We paid for "the privilege of working harder"?

My real life and time/money value is an issue here. I want fun, not grind.

play skyrim where you can console command everything then?

LadyNalcarya

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Why is the first instinct of every person to ask for an easier time?
Nobody wants to work on themselves anymore.

We paid for "the privilege of working harder"?

My real life and time/money value is an issue here. I want fun, not grind.

First of all, you paid for content and you got the content.
And you dont have to grind... Crafted gear is about 70-80% as effective as BiS and grinding cps is just stupid imo. I've never grinded, but I'm sitting on 1000+ points.

ItsNebula

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss
The health is way to high for 4 man group of newbs

Dont know if this is a troll, or not but if its not..

you do realize that just about EVERY dungeon in this game (Other than a few DLC dungeons) can be SOLO'd by a good DPS, right? A GOOD DPS can parse about 50k+ , killing a boss with 3mil-6mil HP in a VERY short amount of time.
Sounds like a L2P issue to me..

zaria

ItsNebula wrote: »

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

-->[Unnecessary Health on Dungeon Bosses]<--

It isn't that fun to spam 5 buttons for 15 mins on one boss
The health is way to high for 4 man group of newbs

Dont know if this is a troll, or not but if its not..

you do realize that just about EVERY dungeon in this game (Other than a few DLC dungeons) can be SOLO'd by a good DPS, right? A GOOD DPS can parse about 50k+ , killing a boss with 3mil-6mil HP in a VERY short amount of time.
Sounds like a L2P issue to me..

Well you are not doing 50k dps single target soloing an vet dungeon, an very good one can reach 50k on dummy, this is enough for HM trials.

On the other hand you are correct, with an group dps of 30k, an 6 million boss is dead in 2 minutes and that is an very low group dps. Yes some fights there you have to prioritize adds and its lots of mechanics can last longer.
You can get hour long runs, but that is because you wipe so much.

Doctordarkspawn

Dubhliam wrote: »

Why is the first instinct of every person to ask for an easier time?
Nobody wants to work on themselves anymore.

Why is the first instinct of perfectionists these days to spread their mentality through a mixture of shame, badgering and coersion, ignoring any and all context or merit of the argument presented?

@Dubhliam there's a point at which the health of a boss is reasonable, especially in a mechanic driven fight where it can be divided into segments for each part of the boss, and then there's 10 mil health posses that are supposed to be delt with by two DPS. That's comparable to some trial bosses. That's a point where it's reasonable to point out that this isn't exactly great design.

This is one of those times. There's a sweet-spot. Nobody's asking for an easier time as most of the dungeons this could be applied to are DLC, and thus mechanic heavy. We're asking for common sense. Learn the difference, or please, come back when you have something worthwhile and meaningful to add.

You cannot self improve through everything, human beings have their limits. And sometimes all you learn in defeat is that you lost. Sometimes, the correct response to a challenge, is to re-evaluate, or retreat. This should not be a point of shame. Stop trying to make it one.

ADarklore

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

Then i suggest to learn even the basics of dealing damage.

In a nutshell;

Damage scales differently;
- If you're magicka, use staves and skills that uses magicka. Spell damage is calculated from max magicka.
- If you're stamina, use weapons and skills that uses magicka. Weapon damage is calculated from max stamina.
- Hybrids don't work very well. So either stack all attributes to magicka or stamina.

Dont just randomly smash buttons. Use simple rotations. First, buff yourself / debuff enemies with skills that, for example, gives brutality, savegery, sorcery, prophecy, berserk, fracture, breach etc.

Rotation could be in simplest: Main dps skill -> Light attack - damage over time - light attack - main dps - light attack and so on. When enemy is in execute range (50 % - 25 %) start spamming execute skills (the ones that gives huge damage bonus to low health enemies) instead of main dps.

If you're still struggling, check your gear. Wouldn't hurt to have like at least one full 5-piece set and maybe 3x same jewelry + 4 piece set. If you're new player and can't craft, join some friendly guilds that'll help.

Happy hunting guys and gals!

Sorry, have to correct the bolded portion... you MEANT... "use weapons and skills that uses STAMINA."

Doctordarkspawn

Dubhliam wrote: »

Oh yeah... @Doctordarkspawn

"Bosses have too much heath" is suuuuuuch constructive feedback.

Which bosses have too much health?

And how much is your DPS?

Once we have those two CRUCIAL pieces of information, then we can talk constructively.

Until then...

Stop whining.

The one example off the top of my head is Plague Concoctor Mortieu, who has ten mil health and a mechanically heavy bossfight. It spews poison alot, demands split-second positioning of the tank in a way no other boss does and holds the fight up itself alot by making the DPS murder adds for reagents so they can stop the horrific poison damage meaning the health pool is going to feel twice as long as it actually is.

And none. I'm a tank. For the sake of example assume each DPS is pulling at least 20 so I dont want to kill myself. That's 40 per second at optimal conditions.

And I really dont expect you to be constructive reguardless of what information I give, especially since you're still spewing insults and presuming I'm whining because you dont actually care about the topic whatsoever. So please. Suprise me.

Hell, I'll even give you a counter-example of what and why a good health set is. Xal-Nur. Xal-Nur has around 2M 400K health. S'rather small. It's also a mechanic heavy fight where the game deliberately makes him invincible so you must do mechanics in order to not make him last all of a few minutes. It's a time where mechanics that deliberately hold up the fight have a health pool that both suggests and compliments this style as opposed to Mortieu which just holds the players up for a half hour. One clearly had thought and purpose put into it's design, the other clearly had a lack thereof and a large health pool to compensate. Puting pressure on one part of the trinity to perform is one thing, just making them do it for longer for no real reason is another.

LadyNalcarya

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Oh yeah... @Doctordarkspawn

"Bosses have too much heath" is suuuuuuch constructive feedback.

Which bosses have too much health?

And how much is your DPS?

Once we have those two CRUCIAL pieces of information, then we can talk constructively.

Until then...

Stop whining.

The one example off the top of my head is Plague Concoctor Mortieu, who has ten mil health and a mechanically heavy bossfight. It spews poison alot, demands split-second positioning of the tank in a way no other boss does and holds the fight up itself alot by making the DPS murder adds for reagents so they can stop the horrific poison damage meaning the health pool is going to feel twice as long as it actually is.

And none. I'm a tank. For the sake of example assume each DPS is pulling at least 20 so I dont want to kill myself. That's 40 per second at optimal conditions.

And I really dont expect you to be constructive reguardless of what information I give, especially since you're still spewing insults and presuming I'm whining because you dont actually care about the topic whatsoever. So please. Suprise me.

Hell, I'll even give you a counter-example of what and why a good health set is. Xal-Nur. Xal-Nur has around 2M 400K health. S'rather small. It's also a mechanic heavy fight where the game deliberately makes him invincible so you must do mechanics in order to not make him last all of a few minutes. It's a time where mechanics that deliberately hold up the fight have a health pool that both suggests and compliments this style as opposed to Mortieu which just holds the players up for a half hour. One clearly had thought and purpose put into it's design, the other clearly had a lack thereof and a large health pool to compensate. Puting pressure on one part of the trinity to perform is one thing, just making them do it for longer for no real reason is another.

When I saw this boss for the first time, I also thought it's a tedious and super long fight.
Now it only takes a few minutes, pretty much the same as Xal-Nur. And I dont have top dps.
Why? This fight also has some mechanics. Just try to listen closely. There is an audio clue.

NeetoCheeto1

zaria

NeetoCheeto1 wrote: »

Welcome back my loved one.
Lets retire to the bedroom while you are still a beast

zaria

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Oh yeah... @Doctordarkspawn

"Bosses have too much heath" is suuuuuuch constructive feedback.

Which bosses have too much health?

And how much is your DPS?

Once we have those two CRUCIAL pieces of information, then we can talk constructively.

Until then...

Stop whining.

The one example off the top of my head is Plague Concoctor Mortieu, who has ten mil health and a mechanically heavy bossfight. It spews poison alot, demands split-second positioning of the tank in a way no other boss does and holds the fight up itself alot by making the DPS murder adds for reagents so they can stop the horrific poison damage meaning the health pool is going to feel twice as long as it actually is.

And none. I'm a tank. For the sake of example assume each DPS is pulling at least 20 so I dont want to kill myself. That's 40 per second at optimal conditions.

And I really dont expect you to be constructive reguardless of what information I give, especially since you're still spewing insults and presuming I'm whining because you dont actually care about the topic whatsoever. So please. Suprise me.

Hell, I'll even give you a counter-example of what and why a good health set is. Xal-Nur. Xal-Nur has around 2M 400K health. S'rather small. It's also a mechanic heavy fight where the game deliberately makes him invincible so you must do mechanics in order to not make him last all of a few minutes. It's a time where mechanics that deliberately hold up the fight have a health pool that both suggests and compliments this style as opposed to Mortieu which just holds the players up for a half hour. One clearly had thought and purpose put into it's design, the other clearly had a lack thereof and a large health pool to compensate. Puting pressure on one part of the trinity to perform is one thing, just making them do it for longer for no real reason is another.

When I saw this boss for the first time, I also thought it's a tedious and super long fight.
Now it only takes a few minutes, pretty much the same as Xal-Nur. And I dont have top dps.
Why? This fight also has some mechanics. Just try to listen closely. There is an audio clue.

This so much, the first 2 times I did this no normal I got an portal to this boss, one other was the spheres.
its all about mechanic, yes the boss has a bit high health for an low dps group, one confusion was the antidote drops we thought we had to interact with the guy not just healer stand in the center, tank has to plug the vents.

PlagueSD

Seri wrote: »

My vote could be Fungal Grotto II, Spider Shepherd boss with the 3 adds.

Oh, I forgot about that one. Yeah, EVERYONE kills the adds and now the boss has 80% damage mitigation and we're all doing less than 2k DPS.

Doctordarkspawn

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Oh yeah... @Doctordarkspawn

"Bosses have too much heath" is suuuuuuch constructive feedback.

Which bosses have too much health?

And how much is your DPS?

Once we have those two CRUCIAL pieces of information, then we can talk constructively.

Until then...

Stop whining.

The one example off the top of my head is Plague Concoctor Mortieu, who has ten mil health and a mechanically heavy bossfight. It spews poison alot, demands split-second positioning of the tank in a way no other boss does and holds the fight up itself alot by making the DPS murder adds for reagents so they can stop the horrific poison damage meaning the health pool is going to feel twice as long as it actually is.

And none. I'm a tank. For the sake of example assume each DPS is pulling at least 20 so I dont want to kill myself. That's 40 per second at optimal conditions.

And I really dont expect you to be constructive reguardless of what information I give, especially since you're still spewing insults and presuming I'm whining because you dont actually care about the topic whatsoever. So please. Suprise me.

Hell, I'll even give you a counter-example of what and why a good health set is. Xal-Nur. Xal-Nur has around 2M 400K health. S'rather small. It's also a mechanic heavy fight where the game deliberately makes him invincible so you must do mechanics in order to not make him last all of a few minutes. It's a time where mechanics that deliberately hold up the fight have a health pool that both suggests and compliments this style as opposed to Mortieu which just holds the players up for a half hour. One clearly had thought and purpose put into it's design, the other clearly had a lack thereof and a large health pool to compensate. Puting pressure on one part of the trinity to perform is one thing, just making them do it for longer for no real reason is another.

When I saw this boss for the first time, I also thought it's a tedious and super long fight.
Now it only takes a few minutes, pretty much the same as Xal-Nur. And I dont have top dps.
Why? This fight also has some mechanics. Just try to listen closely. There is an audio clue.

That tells me, that the reason it has that much health is because it was basicly able to be burned and that's a ZOS being -lazy- issue.

Mystrius_Archaion

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Why is the first instinct of every person to ask for an easier time?
Nobody wants to work on themselves anymore.

We paid for "the privilege of working harder"?

My real life and time/money value is an issue here. I want fun, not grind.

First of all, you paid for content and you got the content.
And you dont have to grind... Crafted gear is about 70-80% as effective as BiS and grinding cps is just stupid imo. I've never grinded, but I'm sitting on 1000+ points.

"I've been here since beta in 2014 so I don't know how newer players have it but I'll still belittle them and try to invalidate their valid complaints."

I don't have the CP level you have. I don't have everything in the game otherwise either. I'm still grinding stuff out you finished years ago.
It's pretty crap that I pay for content I won't see, especially because your damn elitist jerk groups don't want me along because I don't have BiS gear.

So, think of a position other than your own when you read a post from a position other than your own. Maybe it would make sense to you then and you wouldn't look so confused and selfish then.

Dubhliam

As for Plague Doctor... @Doctordarkspawn

This is just one... ONE boss with high health.

Also, you forgot to mention that there are mechanics involved in that fight where you get enormous ultimate generation, making it for a quicker kill.

While comparing this boss to Xal Nur, which fight do you think takes longer?

EDIT: Plague Doctor takes less than two minutes to kill.

Mystrius_Archaion

Dubhliam wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Why is the first instinct of every person to ask for an easier time?
Nobody wants to work on themselves anymore.

We paid for "the privilege of working harder"?

My real life and time/money value is an issue here. I want fun, not grind.

First of all, you paid for content and you got the content.
And you dont have to grind... Crafted gear is about 70-80% as effective as BiS and grinding cps is just stupid imo. I've never grinded, but I'm sitting on 1000+ points.

"I've been here since beta in 2014 so I don't know how newer players have it but I'll still belittle them and try to invalidate their valid complaints."

I don't have the CP level you have. I don't have everything in the game otherwise either. I'm still grinding stuff out you finished years ago.
It's pretty crap that I pay for content I won't see, especially because your damn elitist jerk groups don't want me along because I don't have BiS gear.

So, think of a position other than your own when you read a post from a position other than your own. Maybe it would make sense to you then and you wouldn't look so confused and selfish then.

Damn, sometimes I really wish ZOS would remove CPs altogether just so that whiner would have one less thing to complain about.

Skilled people that invest time into their build and rotation don't need CPs.

I had players in my trial group with around 300 CPs and they did great in all veteran trials, including Maw of Lorkhaj, Asylum and Halls of Fabrication.

If you don't believe crafted gear can be powerful, and you will suck less once you "grind" your way to BiS gear and max CP, you are in for a big surprise!

Do I really need to dig up the post by @ZOS_GinaBruno that was in response to my repeated questions about what they balance around? She posted that veteran is cp300 minimum and hard modes are cp600/max.

CPs matter because the developers made them matter and were a replacement for veteran ranks which mattered also.

So yes, they want endgame that we do and they want us to get up to the high end as they keep accelerating the champion point leveling curve, but they do not apply that acceleration to many other things that they should.

LadyNalcarya

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Oh yeah... @Doctordarkspawn

"Bosses have too much heath" is suuuuuuch constructive feedback.

Which bosses have too much health?

And how much is your DPS?

Once we have those two CRUCIAL pieces of information, then we can talk constructively.

Until then...

Stop whining.

The one example off the top of my head is Plague Concoctor Mortieu, who has ten mil health and a mechanically heavy bossfight. It spews poison alot, demands split-second positioning of the tank in a way no other boss does and holds the fight up itself alot by making the DPS murder adds for reagents so they can stop the horrific poison damage meaning the health pool is going to feel twice as long as it actually is.

And none. I'm a tank. For the sake of example assume each DPS is pulling at least 20 so I dont want to kill myself. That's 40 per second at optimal conditions.

And I really dont expect you to be constructive reguardless of what information I give, especially since you're still spewing insults and presuming I'm whining because you dont actually care about the topic whatsoever. So please. Suprise me.

Hell, I'll even give you a counter-example of what and why a good health set is. Xal-Nur. Xal-Nur has around 2M 400K health. S'rather small. It's also a mechanic heavy fight where the game deliberately makes him invincible so you must do mechanics in order to not make him last all of a few minutes. It's a time where mechanics that deliberately hold up the fight have a health pool that both suggests and compliments this style as opposed to Mortieu which just holds the players up for a half hour. One clearly had thought and purpose put into it's design, the other clearly had a lack thereof and a large health pool to compensate. Puting pressure on one part of the trinity to perform is one thing, just making them do it for longer for no real reason is another.

When I saw this boss for the first time, I also thought it's a tedious and super long fight.
Now it only takes a few minutes, pretty much the same as Xal-Nur. And I dont have top dps.
Why? This fight also has some mechanics. Just try to listen closely. There is an audio clue.

That tells me, that the reason it has that much health is because it was basicly able to be burned and that's a ZOS being -lazy- issue.

Well, then you can say that Xal-Nur's immunity is also ZOS being lazy.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Why is the first instinct of every person to ask for an easier time?
Nobody wants to work on themselves anymore.

We paid for "the privilege of working harder"?

My real life and time/money value is an issue here. I want fun, not grind.

First of all, you paid for content and you got the content.
And you dont have to grind... Crafted gear is about 70-80% as effective as BiS and grinding cps is just stupid imo. I've never grinded, but I'm sitting on 1000+ points.

"I've been here since beta in 2014 so I don't know how newer players have it but I'll still belittle them and try to invalidate their valid complaints."

I don't have the CP level you have. I don't have everything in the game otherwise either. I'm still grinding stuff out you finished years ago.
It's pretty crap that I pay for content I won't see, especially because your damn elitist jerk groups don't want me along because I don't have BiS gear.

So, think of a position other than your own when you read a post from a position other than your own. Maybe it would make sense to you then and you wouldn't look so confused and selfish then.

Nope and nope. Both of those things are lies, and lying and trying to belittle your opponent is not a good way to start a constructive discssion.

What "elitist jerk group"? What "BiS grind'? What are you even talking about?
First of all, 99% of the game is solo questing with small bits of dolmens and world bosses (they're getting zerged anyway). All dungeons and trials are accessible to everyone, that's why we have normal modes. You're not missing the story or skill points and you will certainly see all content you've paid for. Vet version is just an optional challenge, its there because not all players like super easy content. But nonetheless, all content has "easy mode" so you're not missing anything. If that easy mode is too hard for you, then it certainly is a l2p issue. And yeah, this isnt elitist, in any other game (basketball, football, chess, etc) you're expected to do so, even in children's games like hopscoth and hide-and-seek. I dont think you're less capable than a child, considering that you can just spam random buttons to clear normal mode.

Again, you're paying for content (with 2 difficulty settings), you're not paying to win. Pay to win is one of the most toxic things that happened to mmo gaming and I'm glad it's pretty much non-existant in this game. If that makes me elitist... Ok, but there are a lot of games you can win with your wallet. Too bad that it gives the game bad PR and kills it (like Archeage and many others), right? It must be because of those evil meritocratic elitists!

Secondly, my old gear I grinded "ages ago" was deconned long time ago, sets become obsolete with new patches and they even changed max gear level at some point. Also, if you tried to research how gear works instead of blaming "elitist boogeyman" you'd find out that crafted and BoE (overland) gear is almost as powerful as the best trial gear. I'm 100% sure that gear will be good enough for all content, even the most of vet content.

Your CP argument is actually very toxic. Not for me, for the community. Claiming that CP=player's skill and ability is very harmful, it makes new players grind dolmens until they burn out and quit, it makes people kick those new players for low cp... This is simply wrong, I've seen cp900 people that were much worse than cp200-300 players. It also encourages players to buy already grinded accounts from botters.
Btw I never grinded cps, if that's what you're trying to say.

Last, but not least, I used to really like helping new/casual players, crafting gear for them, explaining dungeon mechanics. But people like you, those who are so afraid of this elitist boogeyman and so quick to blame other players, made me stop doing this. I'm pretty sure that I'm not alone. You simply can't be friendly and nice when people dismiss all you have to say because you're "elitist".
Just think about it for a sec.

Doctordarkspawn

Dubhliam wrote: »

As for Plague Doctor... @Doctordarkspawn

This is just one... ONE boss with high health.

Also, you forgot to mention that there are mechanics involved in that fight where you get enormous ultimate generation, making it for a quicker kill.

While comparing this boss to Xal Nur, which fight do you think takes longer?

EDIT: Plague Doctor takes less than two minutes to kill.

Still lazy design, and criticism of it for being so isn't wrong.

Xal-Nur had actual depth to it, as much depth as an MMO boss can have. Mortieu has a fairly forced mechanic that puts strain on one third of the holy trinity and the rest on rapid DPS.

By your own admission, it takes less than two minutes, it's a DPS race, which makes the high health all the more insulting. That ZOS cant program a bossfight that's more then a straight DPS race that they need to inflate the health pool to a point where it has to matter.

And that says far more about ZOS then the people critisizing ZOS. As much as you seem to hate them for merely speaking an opinion.

LadyNalcarya

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

As for Plague Doctor... @Doctordarkspawn

This is just one... ONE boss with high health.

Also, you forgot to mention that there are mechanics involved in that fight where you get enormous ultimate generation, making it for a quicker kill.

While comparing this boss to Xal Nur, which fight do you think takes longer?

EDIT: Plague Doctor takes less than two minutes to kill.

Still lazy design, and criticism of it for being so isn't wrong.

Xal-Nur had actual depth to it, as much depth as an MMO boss can have. Mortieu has a fairly forced mechanic that puts strain on one third of the holy trinity and the rest on rapid DPS.

By your own admission, it takes less than two minutes, it's a DPS race, which makes the high health all the more insulting. That ZOS cant program a bossfight that's more then a straight DPS race that they need to inflate the health pool to a point where it has to matter.

And that says far more about ZOS then the people critisizing ZOS. As much as you seem to hate them for merely speaking an opinion.

Its not a dps race, it has the mechanics. -_-

Doctordarkspawn

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

As for Plague Doctor... @Doctordarkspawn

This is just one... ONE boss with high health.

Also, you forgot to mention that there are mechanics involved in that fight where you get enormous ultimate generation, making it for a quicker kill.

While comparing this boss to Xal Nur, which fight do you think takes longer?

EDIT: Plague Doctor takes less than two minutes to kill.

Still lazy design, and criticism of it for being so isn't wrong.

Xal-Nur had actual depth to it, as much depth as an MMO boss can have. Mortieu has a fairly forced mechanic that puts strain on one third of the holy trinity and the rest on rapid DPS.

By your own admission, it takes less than two minutes, it's a DPS race, which makes the high health all the more insulting. That ZOS cant program a bossfight that's more then a straight DPS race that they need to inflate the health pool to a point where it has to matter.

And that says far more about ZOS then the people critisizing ZOS. As much as you seem to hate them for merely speaking an opinion.

Its not a dps race, it has the mechanics. -_-

Mechanics that, clearly, didn't warrant enough player involvement or incentive -not- to burn them, given it apparently needed 10M health.

LadyNalcarya

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

As for Plague Doctor... @Doctordarkspawn

This is just one... ONE boss with high health.

Also, you forgot to mention that there are mechanics involved in that fight where you get enormous ultimate generation, making it for a quicker kill.

While comparing this boss to Xal Nur, which fight do you think takes longer?

EDIT: Plague Doctor takes less than two minutes to kill.

Still lazy design, and criticism of it for being so isn't wrong.

Xal-Nur had actual depth to it, as much depth as an MMO boss can have. Mortieu has a fairly forced mechanic that puts strain on one third of the holy trinity and the rest on rapid DPS.

By your own admission, it takes less than two minutes, it's a DPS race, which makes the high health all the more insulting. That ZOS cant program a bossfight that's more then a straight DPS race that they need to inflate the health pool to a point where it has to matter.

And that says far more about ZOS then the people critisizing ZOS. As much as you seem to hate them for merely speaking an opinion.

Its not a dps race, it has the mechanics. -_-

Mechanics that, clearly, didn't warrant enough player involvement or incentive -not- to burn them, given it apparently needed 10M health.

They do, actually. I've been in group that tried to burn him and ignore the adds and mechanics, and guess what? It didnt go well.
If you follow the mechanics, it doesnt take longer than Xal-Nur fight. The clues are less obvious than in Xal-Nur's case, but they help a lot. The health pool is also a clue, you can see him drinking a potion at the start of the fight and getting a huge buff.

And in any case, that's the only boss that has unusually large health pool.

zaria

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

As for Plague Doctor... @Doctordarkspawn

This is just one... ONE boss with high health.

Also, you forgot to mention that there are mechanics involved in that fight where you get enormous ultimate generation, making it for a quicker kill.

While comparing this boss to Xal Nur, which fight do you think takes longer?

EDIT: Plague Doctor takes less than two minutes to kill.

Still lazy design, and criticism of it for being so isn't wrong.

Xal-Nur had actual depth to it, as much depth as an MMO boss can have. Mortieu has a fairly forced mechanic that puts strain on one third of the holy trinity and the rest on rapid DPS.

By your own admission, it takes less than two minutes, it's a DPS race, which makes the high health all the more insulting. That ZOS cant program a bossfight that's more then a straight DPS race that they need to inflate the health pool to a point where it has to matter.

And that says far more about ZOS then the people critisizing ZOS. As much as you seem to hate them for merely speaking an opinion.

Its not a dps race, it has the mechanics. -_-

Mechanics that, clearly, didn't warrant enough player involvement or incentive -not- to burn them, given it apparently needed 10M health.

The mechanic is fairly slow paced so they gave him lot lots of health so you could not just burn him.
That would have the issue that many would not know and handle the mechanic and wipe in an lower dps group.

An dps race is then you need an minimum dps to kill boss. last boss in falcreach hold is one example.

NeetoCheeto1

Seri

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

As for Plague Doctor... @Doctordarkspawn

This is just one... ONE boss with high health.

Also, you forgot to mention that there are mechanics involved in that fight where you get enormous ultimate generation, making it for a quicker kill.

While comparing this boss to Xal Nur, which fight do you think takes longer?

EDIT: Plague Doctor takes less than two minutes to kill.

Still lazy design, and criticism of it for being so isn't wrong.

Xal-Nur had actual depth to it, as much depth as an MMO boss can have. Mortieu has a fairly forced mechanic that puts strain on one third of the holy trinity and the rest on rapid DPS.

By your own admission, it takes less than two minutes, it's a DPS race, which makes the high health all the more insulting. That ZOS cant program a bossfight that's more then a straight DPS race that they need to inflate the health pool to a point where it has to matter.

And that says far more about ZOS then the people critisizing ZOS. As much as you seem to hate them for merely speaking an opinion.

Its not a dps race, it has the mechanics. -_-

Mechanics that, clearly, didn't warrant enough player involvement or incentive -not- to burn them, given it apparently needed 10M health.

I was also slightly surprised to see that boss with 10mil health the first time. I can only assume ZOS wanted the mechanics to play out without having 'down time'. Say the first mechanic happens, the NPCs have dialog, you kill the imps (from memory?), and then the NPC grabs the resources, spends more time making an antidote/potion and then provides it to you in the middle of the room. It'd be a pretty boring fight if he was completely invulnerable during the poison phases until an antidote was ready. On the other hand, if it was only invulnerable until the first two scamps died, then there's enough forced NPC dialog during the 'potion mixing and distribution' phase (a good 10-15s) that you can get out a bunch of dmg. Then add the mechanic of the extra guard spawning after each antidote, _and_ that ZOS probably wanted most people to experience the different versions, at minimum of 5 mil starts to become understandable.

I seem to recall places like the flesh sculptor in ICP never used to go invulnerable to start with either? IIRC it was only added once DPS increased enough to burn through?

Doctordarkspawn

Seri wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

As for Plague Doctor... @Doctordarkspawn

This is just one... ONE boss with high health.

Also, you forgot to mention that there are mechanics involved in that fight where you get enormous ultimate generation, making it for a quicker kill.

While comparing this boss to Xal Nur, which fight do you think takes longer?

EDIT: Plague Doctor takes less than two minutes to kill.

Still lazy design, and criticism of it for being so isn't wrong.

Xal-Nur had actual depth to it, as much depth as an MMO boss can have. Mortieu has a fairly forced mechanic that puts strain on one third of the holy trinity and the rest on rapid DPS.

By your own admission, it takes less than two minutes, it's a DPS race, which makes the high health all the more insulting. That ZOS cant program a bossfight that's more then a straight DPS race that they need to inflate the health pool to a point where it has to matter.

And that says far more about ZOS then the people critisizing ZOS. As much as you seem to hate them for merely speaking an opinion.

Its not a dps race, it has the mechanics. -_-

Mechanics that, clearly, didn't warrant enough player involvement or incentive -not- to burn them, given it apparently needed 10M health.

I was also slightly surprised to see that boss with 10mil health the first time. I can only assume ZOS wanted the mechanics to play out without having 'down time'. Say the first mechanic happens, the NPCs have dialog, you kill the imps (from memory?), and then the NPC grabs the resources, spends more time making an antidote/potion and then provides it to you in the middle of the room. It'd be a pretty boring fight if he was completely invulnerable during the poison phases until an antidote was ready. On the other hand, if it was only invulnerable until the first two scamps died, then there's enough forced NPC dialog during the 'potion mixing and distribution' phase (a good 10-15s) that you can get out a bunch of dmg. Then add the mechanic of the extra guard spawning after each antidote, _and_ that ZOS probably wanted most people to experience the different versions, at minimum of 5 mil starts to become understandable.

I seem to recall places like the flesh sculptor in ICP never used to go invulnerable to start with either? IIRC it was only added once DPS increased enough to burn through?

I'm not sure about flesh-sculptor. But I know which method I prefer.

Brief periods of immunity give the fight a nice sort of rythm, honestly. I'd rather have that then just a 10M health pool.

starkerealm

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Why is the first instinct of every person to ask for an easier time?
Nobody wants to work on themselves anymore.

We paid for "the privilege of working harder"?

My real life and time/money value is an issue here. I want fun, not grind.

First of all, you paid for content and you got the content.
And you dont have to grind... Crafted gear is about 70-80% as effective as BiS and grinding cps is just stupid imo. I've never grinded, but I'm sitting on 1000+ points.

"I've been here since beta in 2014 so I don't know how newer players have it but I'll still belittle them and try to invalidate their valid complaints."

I don't have the CP level you have. I don't have everything in the game otherwise either. I'm still grinding stuff out you finished years ago.
It's pretty crap that I pay for content I won't see, especially because your damn elitist jerk groups don't want me along because I don't have BiS gear.

So, think of a position other than your own when you read a post from a position other than your own. Maybe it would make sense to you then and you wouldn't look so confused and selfish then.

Okay, here's a couple things to roll around in your skull.

First, your champion points don't matter for your ability to clear content. Full stop, they don't. They can make life easier, but it's not a simple difference between having the stats to clear content or not. Hell, I've got a bunch of characters with unspent CP. I don't mean the hundred and thirty CP I can't spend, I mean I could allocate more points than I have. In one case, they only have 75 spent for the harvesting passives. In most cases I never bothered to spend the extra thirty I got when Summerset dropped. They're still wandering around as 720s instead of 750s because the difference is so marginal, I couldn't be bothered.

Second, this isn't WoW. You understand that, right? There is no such thing as "BiS" here. You can tell, because there's no real consensus on what is "BiS." That should be a clue. When you ask a dozen different people, "what's BiS for my build?" and get as many different answers, it could have been a hint.

ESO is exceedingly skill based. Your stats and gear will not clear content for you, your ability to manage your resources, avoid the stupid, and deal damage will. That last one is the only thing affected by your gear, and it's still far more dependent on your skill at the game.

Feanor

10 Million HP might seem much. But if you follow the mechanics he isn’t actually doing much to threaten the group. Mathematically the fight takes about 4 minutes with 40k group DPS (which is solid but far from elite) and maybe 2 minutes more for the add mechanics. It isn’t a long or complicated fight by any means despite the high HP. If you were to lower the amount of HP the fight would be trivial.

Asardes

Actually some of them have too little:
- Rilis in Banished Cells 2: most times we actually have to wait for the 3rd Daedroth to come out then resume DPS
- Nerien'eth in Crypt of Hearts 2: we have to be careful not to burn him to 40% till the 4 ghosts spawn.

Most end bosses have 5-6M HP, meaning if your group DPS is 50-60K which is still mediocre it takes 2 minutes or less to kill them. If it takes 10 minutes like you complain it's entirely your fault. There's literally no excuse for pulling under 20K as DD as the tank and healer will pull the other 10K together. So simply L2P.