Horned Dragon and Fanged Worm *Pages*, not *Chapters* - Too Much Grind?

Yubarius

I know I'm definitely in the minority here, but I like that its gonna take a long time. It's kinda nice to sell AP motifs for gold and buy weekly vendor stuff, but I really like this edition as another incentive to pvp. Not saying it's the main reason I'm gonna log into pvp every night but I like that it's something I can look forward to earning.

Delpi

This is a test... if you are ok with it, they will make this to the next of the new motifs... just saying.

Cazzy

My eyes are quite bad so sorry for spelling mistakes or repeat questions today xD don't the motifs look exactly like Scalecaller and fang lair? Where does the horned one drop? I've never seen one even in trader.

Tyrobag

The whole idea is stupid and sucks for everyone involved: PvEers can't buy them to avoid content they hate, and PvPers can't sell them to make a profit. There are no PvE content locked (locked being inaccessible in any way outside of that content) styles, its ridiculous to make these impossible to get without going into PvP. They need to add them to runeboxes or make them proper tradeable items.

Peekachu99

4th time today when I’ve received no motifs pages on six toon’s worth of boxes.

Fischblut

Horned Dragon (bg) = Scalecaller (dungeon), Fanged Worm (bg) = Fang Lair (dungeon)

If I remember correctly, only weapons are totally different if we compare battlegrounds variant with it's dungeon variant; armor looks similar or in some cases almost the same except for little details.

I'm still missing lot of pages, and I'm not looking forward to the next update which will dilute the loot table even more

The whole idea is stupid and sucks for everyone involved: PvEers can't buy them to avoid content they hate, and PvPers can't sell them to make a profit. There are no PvE content locked (locked being inaccessible in any way outside of that content) styles, its ridiculous to make these impossible to get without going into PvP. They need to add them to runeboxes or make them proper tradeable items.

100% agree

Peekachu99

Fischblut wrote: »

Horned Dragon (bg) = Scalecaller (dungeon), Fanged Worm (bg) = Fang Lair (dungeon)

If I remember correctly, only weapons are totally different if we compare battlegrounds variant with it's dungeon variant; armor looks similar or in some cases almost the same except for little details.

I'm still missing lot of pages, and I'm not looking forward to the next update which will dilute the loot table even more

The whole idea is stupid and sucks for everyone involved: PvEers can't buy them to avoid content they hate, and PvPers can't sell them to make a profit. There are no PvE content locked (locked being inaccessible in any way outside of that content) styles, its ridiculous to make these impossible to get without going into PvP. They need to add them to runeboxes or make them proper tradeable items.

100% agree

Helms are completely different too. And look 100X better than the dungeon motif—especially the horned dragon variant. I love PVP and yet this grind is gonna make me quit BGs as soon as I have what else I need.

What’s even more annoying is that the boxes were tradeable for one patch cycle (and any motifs in them) and the they went and ZoS’d it.

Fischblut

Helms are completely different too. And look 100X better than the dungeon motif—especially the horned dragon variant.

Oh, damn I forgot to mention those True, horned helms were the main reason I decided to grind battlegrounds

Peekachu99

Fischblut wrote: »

Helms are completely different too. And look 100X better than the dungeon motif—especially the horned dragon variant.

Oh, damn I forgot to mention those True, horned helms were the main reason I decided to grind battlegrounds

Soon as I get the horned heavy, I’m out till some serious BG/PVP fixes. Think I still have a pool of 26 motif pieces though lol. Insulting and absurd. If they put it in the crown store I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Can someone clarify this for me?
BG "Pages" are for outfitter and ARE NOT motif pages, correct?
The BG pages are just to change style at outfitter station and has nothing to do with craftable motifs and chapters, right?

KittyHazWares

You should be guaranteed 1 if your team wins and a 50% if you get 2nd imo

The drop rate is horrible

Peekachu99

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Can someone clarify this for me?
BG "Pages" are for outfitter and ARE NOT motif pages, correct?
The BG pages are just to change style at outfitter station and has nothing to do with craftable motifs and chapters, right?

The Fanged and Horned variants of Scalecaller and Fang Lair are only acquired as random “style” unlock pages. They are not motifs that you can craft with or discover by means other than RNG.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Peekachu99 wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Can someone clarify this for me?
BG "Pages" are for outfitter and ARE NOT motif pages, correct?
The BG pages are just to change style at outfitter station and has nothing to do with craftable motifs and chapters, right?

The Fanged and Horned variants of Scalecaller and Fang Lair are only acquired as random “style” unlock pages. They are not motifs that you can craft with or discover by means other than RNG.

Have a awesome!! Thank you for clarifying that. With the whole Fang Lair-Scalecaller Motif fiasco I was curious. Thank You!
Huzzah!

Agalloch

All respect to you Vaoh...but what's the point to acquire all the motifs in the game?

95% of them are awful .
I understand that many people are collectors...but this motif thing is only a cosmetic feature .

I prefer more ways to improve and develop my characters(s) instead collecting all the motifs in the game.


I can give you an example

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_weapon

Would be very nice to see something like this in Elder Scrolls way. Would be nice if ZOS introduce mythic weapons very time consuming to get like Legendary Weapons in Guild Wars 2.


English is not my native language.

LadyDestiny

Vaoh wrote: »

Prior to the launch of the Horned Dragon and Fanged Worm styles, motif chapters granted all armor weights/similar weapons associated with whatever piece the chapter was meant to provide. If you used a Minotaur Chests chapter, you learned all three armor weights of Minotaur chests. If you used the Minotaur Swords chapter, you learned both Swords and Greatswords in the Minotaur style.

Here are all of the items you can learn in any given style:
• Head (x3)
• Shoulder (x3)
• Chest...Jerkin and Robe are separate (4x)
• Hands (x3)
• Belt (x3)
• Legs (x3)
• Feet (x3)
• Sword (x2)
• Axe (x2)
• Mace (x2)
• Dagger (x1)
• Bow (x1)
• Staff (x1)
• Shield (x1)

In total, there are 14 types of gear pieces - 14 chapters per motif. However, Horned Dragon and Fanged Worm split these chapters into their individual pages.

These two styles therefore have a total of 32 pages per style..... which means 64 pages altogether to unlock through these BG Dailies. From my experience, I average about a 20-25% drop rate on these pages. I consistently get one motif page a day from 4-5 BG Daily reward containers. Sometimes two pages if lucky (on two occasions I didn’t get a page at all though).

If I continue on the path I’m going, which is completing the BG Daily on 4-5 characters every single day, it’ll take me like two months straight of farming just to get these two styles. Maybe a bit less (or more if I skip a few days).

It seems kind of insane to me tbh. Oh and next patch (Wolfhunter) will introduce at least one new BG Daily-only motif style through the same method. If we were getting full chapters (not pages), or the pages had a 100% drop rate, or these pages could be sold in the same way as normal styles, the grind wouldn’t be so bad. In its current state there is a massive grind rn to get these styles and it’s basically impossible if you use only 1-2 characters. Who knows which style will next receive this treatment and be split into pages......

Do you all like the way this grind has been implemented? Has anyone obtained the full styles yet?



EDIT: It has come to my attention that when you receive one of these motif page drops, it does not take into account which pages you have already learned. When you receive a duplicate page, it is instead deleted from your reward container. Duplicates can be picked from the loot table but not given to the player. This means that the more pages you earn, the longer it’ll take to get the next page, hence some players cite getting one page from 10-30+ reward boxes.

1/64 pages —> 1.563% chance of earning any of these 64 motif pages assuming you get a motif page drop in the first place from your reward box. Based on data from my own initial drops and many friends/forum posters, it is likely between a 20-30% chance... no way to know for sure.

It will never increase by taking into account pages you have already gotten. In essence, the chances of you fully earning both styles (64 pages) has an astronomically low chance of happening. My previous “two months” estimate was far, far off... based on the math, getting your final page in itself will take 64 reward containers that would contain a motif page. That easily means 100+ containers for your last page (and similar numbers leading up to it)

Wait what? You mean heavy, medium, light are all seperate pages for each piece? Whose brainless idea was this? I really wish they would go back to the regular whole books on motifs. I absolutely hate these pages, the grind and how expensive they are too acquire. I am at 32 books on my achievements to Grand Master Crafter. Don't know if I will ever make it to 50 because of this nonsense.

Faulgor

Recremen wrote: »

The grind is a bit more than I was hoping for. It's like they think we need even more incentives to do battlegrounds instead of just enjoying that kind of gameplay. Not that I'm mad about getting things for doing something I already like, I just ALSO like motif acquisition so having them be codependent and slow like this is kind of anoying.

It's even worse, if I could play BGs because I enjoy that kind of gameplay I'd just play my magDK, but I have to run the daily with every possible character to get the reward boxes. I wish they'd hand out the box for every completed BG instead of the random daily, would already make it much easier.

lpw

Honestly, this was so much of a grind that I've almost given up on picking up the daily quest. If I wanna play BGs I just jump in and have a few matches.

Jewelry crafting is a similar tedious grind that a lot of players simply can't be bothered with.

We should at least be able to trade these style pages or sell in guild stores

Gothrock

I like the way of obtaining these styles. This game has a lack of staff which is not obtainable for gold (or carry for gold, which is also a sort of trading).
You don't even lose the potential achievement points for not having these motifs. Want them - do BGs.
I'm PVPer and I want PVE skins - maybe I should also get them without doing unwanted activities and without decent challenge?

Mister_DMC

Tyrobag wrote: »

The whole idea is stupid and sucks for everyone involved: PvEers can't buy them to avoid content they hate, and PvPers can't sell them to make a profit. There are no PvE content locked (locked being inaccessible in any way outside of that content) styles, its ridiculous to make these impossible to get without going into PvP. They need to add them to runeboxes or make them proper tradeable items.

The idea is to give PvE players an incentive to try PvP. There's nothing wrong with these motifs or the way they are earned. It's fun, it's something different and yet again it's a carrot to chase. You don't need everything in one day.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

LadyDestiny wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Prior to the launch of the Horned Dragon and Fanged Worm styles, motif chapters granted all armor weights/similar weapons associated with whatever piece the chapter was meant to provide. If you used a Minotaur Chests chapter, you learned all three armor weights of Minotaur chests. If you used the Minotaur Swords chapter, you learned both Swords and Greatswords in the Minotaur style.

Here are all of the items you can learn in any given style:
• Head (x3)
• Shoulder (x3)
• Chest...Jerkin and Robe are separate (4x)
• Hands (x3)
• Belt (x3)
• Legs (x3)
• Feet (x3)
• Sword (x2)
• Axe (x2)
• Mace (x2)
• Dagger (x1)
• Bow (x1)
• Staff (x1)
• Shield (x1)

In total, there are 14 types of gear pieces - 14 chapters per motif. However, Horned Dragon and Fanged Worm split these chapters into their individual pages.

These two styles therefore have a total of 32 pages per style..... which means 64 pages altogether to unlock through these BG Dailies. From my experience, I average about a 20-25% drop rate on these pages. I consistently get one motif page a day from 4-5 BG Daily reward containers. Sometimes two pages if lucky (on two occasions I didn’t get a page at all though).

If I continue on the path I’m going, which is completing the BG Daily on 4-5 characters every single day, it’ll take me like two months straight of farming just to get these two styles. Maybe a bit less (or more if I skip a few days).

It seems kind of insane to me tbh. Oh and next patch (Wolfhunter) will introduce at least one new BG Daily-only motif style through the same method. If we were getting full chapters (not pages), or the pages had a 100% drop rate, or these pages could be sold in the same way as normal styles, the grind wouldn’t be so bad. In its current state there is a massive grind rn to get these styles and it’s basically impossible if you use only 1-2 characters. Who knows which style will next receive this treatment and be split into pages......

Do you all like the way this grind has been implemented? Has anyone obtained the full styles yet?



EDIT: It has come to my attention that when you receive one of these motif page drops, it does not take into account which pages you have already learned. When you receive a duplicate page, it is instead deleted from your reward container. Duplicates can be picked from the loot table but not given to the player. This means that the more pages you earn, the longer it’ll take to get the next page, hence some players cite getting one page from 10-30+ reward boxes.

1/64 pages —> 1.563% chance of earning any of these 64 motif pages assuming you get a motif page drop in the first place from your reward box. Based on data from my own initial drops and many friends/forum posters, it is likely between a 20-30% chance... no way to know for sure.

It will never increase by taking into account pages you have already gotten. In essence, the chances of you fully earning both styles (64 pages) has an astronomically low chance of happening. My previous “two months” estimate was far, far off... based on the math, getting your final page in itself will take 64 reward containers that would contain a motif page. That easily means 100+ containers for your last page (and similar numbers leading up to it)

Wait what? You mean heavy, medium, light are all seperate pages for each piece? Whose brainless idea was this? I really wish they would go back to the regular whole books on motifs. I absolutely hate these pages, the grind and how expensive they are too acquire. I am at 32 books on my achievements to Grand Master Crafter. Don't know if I will ever make it to 50 because of this nonsense.

The thing is these are not "Motif" chapters but "Style" pages. They are just for "Outfitter Styles" and are not craftable.
Makes it even dumber, huh?

starkerealm

Mister_DMC wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

The whole idea is stupid and sucks for everyone involved: PvEers can't buy them to avoid content they hate, and PvPers can't sell them to make a profit. There are no PvE content locked (locked being inaccessible in any way outside of that content) styles, its ridiculous to make these impossible to get without going into PvP. They need to add them to runeboxes or make them proper tradeable items.

The idea is to give PvE players an incentive to try PvP. There's nothing wrong with these motifs or the way they are earned. It's fun, it's something different and yet again it's a carrot to chase. You don't need everything in one day.

The problem isn't being able to collect them in one day, it's the part where you'd need to take your PvP character into battlegrounds every day for five years.

jypcy

Gothrock wrote: »

I like the way of obtaining these styles. This game has a lack of staff which is not obtainable for gold (or carry for gold, which is also a sort of trading).
You don't even lose the potential achievement points for not having these motifs. Want them - do BGs.
I'm PVPer and I want PVE skins - maybe I should also get them without doing unwanted activities and without decent challenge?

To be fair, though, if you can stomach the content, all you have to do is complete the achievement and bingo, you’re guaranteed to get your skin. Sure it might take some additional practice, or you could pay for a carry with an experienced group, but it’s still ultimately complete x and you get y.

For these, players who do the content can complete the daily and still only have a chance at that cosmetic item. So they can practice, they can pay for a carry, and they can complete the dailies every day for months and still not get what they want. It’s complete x and you might get y, with drop rates seemingly low or getting lower as you learn more (technically it’s complete x and get z from which you might get y, but meh). And You can’t even aim for a specific item like you can with pve skins. You wanna be gold? Go complete vHoF. You wanna have a skull staff? You have a 1.6% chance for it when you get a page at all.

I understand the complaint, but I don’t think it’s exactly a 1:1 comparison.

jypcy

Sorry about a double post, but other one really isn’t related at all.

For those worried about the addition of new styles to the mix, the patch notes seem to indicate that the new ones are from a different source and so won’t dilute the loot table for these. I haven’t tried it, but I gather that the team styles with the next update come in the Renown and Rewards and A Champion’s Prize mails, and so you can also presumably actually farm them as much as you want— they’re not limited as a daily reward. At least that’s my understanding from the 4.1.0 patch notes.

Cpt_Teemo

Especially when they mix Pve content (Motifs) with Pvp is very bad as well for those that hate pvping tbh. To make a pvp only motif drop is stupid as well.

I wouldn't mind as much if they made them tradeable in guild stores but i think there bound aren't they

starkerealm

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Especially when they mix Pve content (Motifs) with Pvp is very bad as well for those that hate pvping tbh. To make a pvp only motif drop is stupid as well.

I wouldn't mind as much if they made them tradeable in guild stores but i think there bound aren't they

They're bound. Additionally, they appear to follow the same, "you can't get duplicates" system as the Dungeon event, meaning duplicates do occur, but are culled from the client. However, I haven't verified the second part of that.

HackTheMinotaur

wherew0lf wrote: »

You should be guaranteed 1 if your team wins and a 50% if you get 2nd imo

The drop rate is horrible

This. And make the pages tradable/sellable.

Not everyone has 9 characters to run a BG daily. Some may only have 1 PVP character. A low drop rate on a highly fragmented set is completely unfair to new players and highly annoying to vets. Come on ZOS!