Horned Dragon and Fanged Worm *Pages*, not *Chapters* - Too Much Grind?

Carbonised

@Fischblut

I'm sort of farming for the same red colour (ugh, so many BG kills needed ..), all the PvE red colours are very dark and muted, but that red dye seems much too vivid and bright to look good on any outfits.
Would you mind showing it off on some other armor or costume pieces? I'm curious whether it's actually worth the effort. If it looks as bright as on that picture, then I'm back to having to get Emperor for the ruby throne red, which seems to be the only red colour that looks red and not too dark like the PvE Pact dyes, or overly bright like the Firedrake red.

The only really good reds I have seen so far were Crown Store dye stamp only (of course ..) and possibly the Ruby throne red, which is hidden behind an extremely tedious PvP achievement.

starkerealm

Faulgor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I've got 12 pages left.

As you go on, your droprate goes down, get ready for going 30+ boxes before getting a page...

I suspect the drop rate doesn't change, but you can't see the previously earned pages when you crack open a container. So the drop rate goes to hell because you're getting, (but not seeing) duplicates pages.

I always suspected this is the case, too. That's how some previous event reward boxes worked that didn't give you duplicates - the box still rolls the duplicate, you just don't get the item. If this is the case with BG boxes as well, it will be horrendously hard to finish the set. And with more pages coming with the next update, the pool will dillute even further ...

Edit: I'm not certain about this, but I tried to calculate how many pages you need to draw on average to get a full set.
If there were truly no duplicates, it would be 64, obviously.
If duplicates still count as a draw, it's about 303.6.
If we assume a base drop rate of 20%, that's 1518 boxes. With 5 characters as said in the OP, it would take 303 days.

If the pages weren't split the way they are, it would be 28 or 110 respectively, i.e. 550 boxes.

I think the best way would be just to increase the drop rate, ideally to 100%. It's already limited to a daily, you need to finish 1st or 2nd, and if ZOS plans to add more outfit styles to this system regularly, there should be sufficient time between updates to complete a set. At a 100% drop rate, you'd need on average 303 boxes to complete the two styles currently available, or 2 months with 5 characters. That seems fair to me.

Alternately, actually change the system so it can't generate a duplicate page. So if the page procs, it will give you a new one. For example, if the random unlock was tied to the consumable itself, instead of granting a random page with a fixed unlock. At that point it should be possible to query possible rewards and we're down to that, more reasonable, 304 boxes average. As opposed to someone being asked to run the battleground dailies for nearly five years to complete their collection.

EDIT: Oh right, or unbind the pages, allow players to receive duplicates, and sell/trade the ones they don't need, giving Battleground players a legitimate way to recoup their potion costs. I know the idea was to give PvPers something unique to chase after, but this system doesn't seem ideal for that.

starkerealm

Hamish999 wrote: »

Here we are in the middle of a heat wave and there are snowflakes everywhere.

The drop rate is fine, I don't expect a top tier reward everytime I complete something in game and I appreciate it more when I do get a rarer reward.

Yeah, having the ability to wear shoes that are marginally different from a dungeon motif is an incredible endgame reward. I mean, you must absolutely celebrate the 5 transmute crystals that come out of your reward coffers after every trial run, as the game hands you a Resolute Yokudan Bow in purple.

The problem is, this isn't a top tier reward. This is a mildly interesting reward, gated behind a grind that will take a reasonable person years to address, and is further gated by Bind on Pickup systems, which mean you can't even turn the rewards you can't use into cash. I mean, the game gave them to you, but you didn't see it.

ookami007

Yes, Summerset has officially renamed Elder Scrolls Online to Elder Grind Online. Jewelry is nothing but a pure grind. They had to break with EVERY OTHER crafting skill and break components into grains... for more grinding.

And they broken motifs up into individual components so... yes... MORE GRIND.

At some point, soon if they stay on this path, I will abandon the game. It's one of the things I hate so much about many of the other MMO's... incessant and unnecessary grinding.

Peekachu99

Hamish999 wrote: »

Here we are in the middle of a heat wave and there are snowflakes everywhere.

The drop rate is fine, I don't expect a top tier reward everytime I complete something in game and I appreciate it more when I do get a rarer reward.

The drop rate depreciates the longer you farm. That’s the adverse reward-system for any carrot chasing activity.

eso_lags

zos seems to be doing this lately.. Everything is getting more grindy. And oh look, you can just go buy it on the crownstore and avoid the unprecedented, disgusting, grind.... sweet.

HappyLittleTree

itzTJ wrote: »

zos seems to be doing this lately.. Everything is getting more grindy. And oh look, you can just go buy it on the crownstore and avoid the unprecedented, disgusting, grind.... sweet.

I wish i could buy this one I'm not that into PVP xD

Darkenarlol

worst system so far...

imagine you just want some specific piece for your outfit...

GL with months to years of RNG =D

you can't buy it, just pray for drop which is even not 100% per daily (as mentioned above

chances are about 20% which is similar to my own results)


i want to play my faworite characters on BG ( like 1 or 2) and not running all account thru BG to get daily

with a slim chance for that one piece.. yeah thanks for dividing chests into 4 (!!!) pieces...


we really need some improvements like

-just make it drop from daily 100%

-or don't split it into gazillions of pages


rewards should bring fun and happiness and not frustratuion

Faulgor

starkerealm wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I've got 12 pages left.

As you go on, your droprate goes down, get ready for going 30+ boxes before getting a page...

I suspect the drop rate doesn't change, but you can't see the previously earned pages when you crack open a container. So the drop rate goes to hell because you're getting, (but not seeing) duplicates pages.

I always suspected this is the case, too. That's how some previous event reward boxes worked that didn't give you duplicates - the box still rolls the duplicate, you just don't get the item. If this is the case with BG boxes as well, it will be horrendously hard to finish the set. And with more pages coming with the next update, the pool will dillute even further ...

Edit: I'm not certain about this, but I tried to calculate how many pages you need to draw on average to get a full set.
If there were truly no duplicates, it would be 64, obviously.
If duplicates still count as a draw, it's about 303.6.
If we assume a base drop rate of 20%, that's 1518 boxes. With 5 characters as said in the OP, it would take 303 days.

If the pages weren't split the way they are, it would be 28 or 110 respectively, i.e. 550 boxes.

I think the best way would be just to increase the drop rate, ideally to 100%. It's already limited to a daily, you need to finish 1st or 2nd, and if ZOS plans to add more outfit styles to this system regularly, there should be sufficient time between updates to complete a set. At a 100% drop rate, you'd need on average 303 boxes to complete the two styles currently available, or 2 months with 5 characters. That seems fair to me.

Alternately, actually change the system so it can't generate a duplicate page. So if the page procs, it will give you a new one. For example, if the random unlock was tied to the consumable itself, instead of granting a random page with a fixed unlock. At that point it should be possible to query possible rewards and we're down to that, more reasonable, 304 boxes average. As opposed to someone being asked to run the battleground dailies for nearly five years to complete their collection.

Yeah that would be ideal, especially long-term if similar systems get added down the road. I simply didn't suggest it because it would require more work, and I've found it's easier to convince developers to change something if it's not a lot of effort on their end.

Korprok

itzTJ wrote: »

zos seems to be doing this lately.. Everything is getting more grindy. And oh look, you can just go buy it on the crownstore and avoid the unprecedented, disgusting, grind.... sweet.

yup, and in the end I won't buy it from the crown store out of principle because of ZoS buisiness practises. So I'll end up playing less and buying less.

Numerikuu

Wait WHAT??? So you're telling me that instead of chest motifs unlocking light/med/heavy for that style, it's now *** split into three different motif pages???!?!?!?!?!!!!!

ZENIMAX WHAT THE *** ARE YOU DOING?

Darkenarlol

Numerikuu wrote: »

Wait WHAT??? So you're telling me that instead of chest motifs unlocking light/med/heavy for that style, it's now *** split into three different motif pages???!?!?!?!?!!!!!

ZENIMAX WHAT THE *** ARE YOU DOING?

more than that jerkin and robe = 2 pages =D

Numerikuu

Darkenarlol wrote: »

more than that jerkin and robe = 2 pages =D

Kiralyn2000

Yeah, thanks OP.

I was slowly convincing myself to suck it up and provide pvpers a target dummy try BGs to get the Fanged Worm chest motif (it's slightly nicer than the Fang Lair one), but this news is just what I needed to resist the bribery and stay out of pvp.

ArvenAldmeri

This is absolutely stupid indeed. I am not a pvp person. I am not battleground person either. When it was still bugged I bought 5 boxes to see if I can drop what I want. Nothing. I do like 5 battleground losing against experianced pvp players until my group finally ended up being 2nd. Yeah, not even 1st, 2nd.. I get box and whats inside? Nothing. Nope. Not gonna even bother. Give pvp ppl way to make money and make the pages itself sellable so that pvp noobs like me can go and buy it.

Fischblut

@Carbonised

At the moment I can only show what I already have on pictures. I can do more different screenshots tomorrow if needed.



All red is Firedrake's flame. Depends on material, but it's true that it's the brightest red color we can get in game so far (without crown store exclusive from stamps of course). I saw this color on armor of Firedrake team gladiator NPC at BG camp when I got Morrowind - I fell in love with this color since that day

edit: more screenshots

Mister_DMC

Nah Don, gives you something to do

Mister_DMC

Still missing a few myself and have been doing BG's on all 9 of my characters pretty much daily. Gonna take a bit but it's better than the 6 months out took me to complete trinimac

MasterSpatula

This is disappointing. But also thoroughly unsurprising.

LittlePumpkin030

I would appreciate it, when they would make the loot system for BG the same as for Dungeons.
So first one you get the purple lootbox with a chance of x% to get a motif page.

Second and millions afterwards you get blue lootbox with a chance of x% to get a motif.

Because now they add new motifs to BG's with Update 19. So even more to get and less chance to get missing ones.

@ZOS_GinaBruno you think this will change in a future patch?

Fang_of_Lorkhaj

This is wayy too grindy... I do BGs across 7 toons everyday and get at the minimal 1 to 2 pages and at most 4 on a good day. That's not to also say it's a page I might have already known. Make cross character wide achievement and motif learning.

Facefister

First jewelcrafting mats now this? What comes next?

laksikus

@Vaoh
how do you know duplicates will get deleted from the box if you learned it already?


You can also get duplicate pages by opening boxes on 2 different chars and not learning it immediatly.
I got a double page from it by accident in the first week ._.

GrantTheGriffon

Couldn't agree more how ridiculous this is.

I'm now very lucky to get a single motif page every 3-4 days. It wouldn't be half as bad if they didn't split up each motifs category into the light, medium and heavy variants as yet more individual pieces.

Zenimax really ought to be investigating the drop table process going on in the background. It should be taking into account which pages we have already learned and giving us a guaranteed (non-duplicate) piece from every reward box.

Leeched

Posting here cause I am really triggered.
I did bgs with 10 characters for TWO days in a row now and I didnt get a single motif - this is ridiculous!
At least make drop rate 50% chance and not 0.000000000001%

Rant over

BozzyTheDrummer

How do you even get these? I you have to be the top player of your team, do you have to win, certain amount of points?

I've been the top player on my team maybe like 3 times? I've been on a winning team once or twice, but always at the bottom. I'm not the best at PvP and the most kills I get is usually 3-4 and anywhere from 6-10 assists. I would like to get these pages too, but I have no idea how to get them.

Recremen

The grind is a bit more than I was hoping for. It's like they think we need even more incentives to do battlegrounds instead of just enjoying that kind of gameplay. Not that I'm mad about getting things for doing something I already like, I just ALSO like motif acquisition so having them be codependent and slow like this is kind of anoying.

Inarre

WOW.

Just wow.

And I used to say ESO's grind was reasonable.

Ophion wrote: »

But considering the state of battlegrounds; the weird MMR system, the deserter penalty bugs and the excessive loading queues, i'd say that It's just not worth the effort.

This. I seem to always get the bug where upon loading in and upon dying you get stuck in a literal 5 minute loading screen. BG's are endlessly infuriating to me, and also a good time to file my nails, do the dishes, walk the dog, tidy my desk, clean my keyboard and so on.

Vahrokh

You have seen nothing.

Wait until we'll have to grind a motif for each separate finger for each glove, each button on the shirt, every rivet on heavy armor.

rhapsodious

BozzyTheDrummer wrote: »

How do you even get these? I you have to be the top player of your team, do you have to win, certain amount of points?

I've been the top player on my team maybe like 3 times? I've been on a winning team once or twice, but always at the bottom. I'm not the best at PvP and the most kills I get is usually 3-4 and anywhere from 6-10 assists. I would like to get these pages too, but I have no idea how to get them.

Your team has to come in first or second place, your individual performance outside of how that affects your team's placement doesn't matter.

And tying for second counts as coming in last, so a CTR game that ended with 500-400-400 means both teams who scored 400 get nothing.

Beyond that it's RNG, and you get one box per either 20 hours or calendar day, I haven't paid attention enough since I do them around the same time usually.