Sloads: The Death of Build Diversity

Feanor

Gprime31 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Jurand80 wrote: »

welcome to non cp BG

Why is it always going for 7 ticks? Shouldn’t it be 6?

It can reproc itself on the last tick

There is an initial tick on impact at 0 seconds. Hence why it’s 7 ticks.

Anethum

blur wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. We previously mentioned (maybe a few weeks back) we were going to take a look at Sloads. After doing some investigation, we'll be making some adjustments to this item set in the next update so it isn't quite as strong.

So basically you are going to ruin another set because people are too lazy or too ignorant to slot a counter.
Cyrodiil PvP is mostly zergs, Sloads is irrelevant.
BGs has at least 4 people on a team... let's be real, 1 of 4 can slot a counter that benefits the entire team.

The set isn't overpowered nor broken. You have enough sets that suck already that go directly to vendor, delete, or decon.
The fact of the matter is that players need something to whine about. I never die to sloads, ever (nor do people on my team in BGs). I run efficient purge on my bar and please don't tell me you don't have the room for it, let alone one of your group members.

There will always be a boogieman people will ***, moan, and groan about. After you are done ruining Sloads, you will see more threads asking you to ruin another set, including monster sets. Watch.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn @ZOS_Wrobel please consider what I wrote here.


edit:
And before someone get's their pride stepped on and knee-jerk retorts, I don't even use the set, however I do see some merit in others running it.

Edit 2 :
As of right now, your hotfix today basically broke the game on PC. Now we enter BGs that are slideshows of 300-999 ping where nobody can hit anyone and people are warping all over the place. The same goes for Dungeonfinder groups. But hey, instead of fixing your game, let's worry about Sloads.

Just one question - Do u serve to Lucifer?

Anethum

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. We previously mentioned (maybe a few weeks back) we were going to take a look at Sloads. After doing some investigation, we'll be making some adjustments to this item set in the next update so it isn't quite as strong.

Thx Aedra! At least reaction to giant massive feedback.
@ZOS_GinaBruno Next patch means next DLC or small patch?

BohnT

Anethum wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. We previously mentioned (maybe a few weeks back) we were going to take a look at Sloads. After doing some investigation, we'll be making some adjustments to this item set in the next update so it isn't quite as strong.

Thx Aedra! At least reaction to giant massive feedback.
@ZOS_GinaBruno Next patch means next DLC or small patch?

Update is the patch with the next DLC

Vapirko

BohnT wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. We previously mentioned (maybe a few weeks back) we were going to take a look at Sloads. After doing some investigation, we'll be making some adjustments to this item set in the next update so it isn't quite as strong.

Thx Aedra! At least reaction to giant massive feedback.
@ZOS_GinaBruno Next patch means next DLC or small patch?

Update is the patch with the next DLC

Unfortunately we must suffer. Now to get my own enjoyment out of it?

Savos_Saren

I wonder if they can just make a "Major Oblivion damage" and a "Minor Oblivion damage". That way- it can't stack with another person's Sload.

Sloads could tick for "Minor Oblivion damage" and the enchants that you put on weapons could be "Major Oblivion damage".

Strider__Roshin

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. We previously mentioned (maybe a few weeks back) we were going to take a look at Sloads. After doing some investigation, we'll be making some adjustments to this item set in the next update so it isn't quite as strong.

Please tell me you're going to look at the other proc sets while you're at it. Zaan, Caluurion, and Skoria should not get a pass.

Good luck. I've never even asked for a damage nerf on Skoria, all I want is a simple visual cue like Meteor. But Skoria owners pop out of the woodwork to cry cry cry if you dare mention it.

I'm not asking for a damage nerf for any of these sets. I just want there to be reliable counterplay.

martinhpb16_ESO

Stamblade

Just had a 1v1 with a shield stacking sorc.

Sloads was the only dd that did any relevant damage, and that wasn't enormous. The rest was trash dd. Long fight but ofc I never break through all that stuff and get it from aoe.

I check my damage logs after most ganks / 1v1, sloads comes up 3rd or 4th on the list usually.

Guess after all the whining and the nerf comes Ill go bk to doing no dd on sorcs.

Viper nerf, salenes nerf now inc sloads nerf. guess its magica ftw.

BTW I never die from sloads either and I hear its an effective counter to cloak which people also whine about.

Guess Ill just roll a magsorc and bounce around like all the other pros.

martinhpb16_ESO

pieratsos wrote: »

If something is broken then you fix what is broken. You dont just throw another broken thing to counter it. If shieldstacking is an issue, adjust shieldstacking. If cloaking is an issue, adjust cloak. If permablocking is an issue adjust blocking.

And so we end up with wut? all running the same build. They massacred pve challenge do we really want pvp to turn that way too?

Too much whining about what they die from imho.

Waffennacht

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Stamblade

Just had a 1v1 with a shield stacking sorc.

Sloads was the only dd that did any relevant damage, and that wasn't enormous. The rest was trash dd. Long fight but ofc I never break through all that stuff and get it from aoe.

I check my damage logs after most ganks / 1v1, sloads comes up 3rd or 4th on the list usually.

Guess after all the whining and the nerf comes Ill go bk to doing no dd on sorcs.

Viper nerf, salenes nerf now inc sloads nerf. guess its magica ftw.

BTW I never die from sloads either and I hear its an effective counter to cloak which people also whine about.

Guess Ill just roll a magsorc and bounce around like all the other pros.

As a Stam character how are you not applying insane pressure via Dots and Bleeds?

You have arguably the best Ult and CCs in game and gap closer

Your match with a sorc, esp one that doesn't 100-0 you, should be over in 4 GCDs

pieratsos

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

If something is broken then you fix what is broken. You dont just throw another broken thing to counter it. If shieldstacking is an issue, adjust shieldstacking. If cloaking is an issue, adjust cloak. If permablocking is an issue adjust blocking.

And so we end up with wut? all running the same build. They massacred pve challenge do we really want pvp to turn that way too?

Too much whining about what they die from imho.

Adjust doesnt mean delete. It means changing it to be balanced.

You do realise that the thing you are trying to avoid is the exact same thing we have because of sload and every sload like crap right? They remove challenge because there is no skill involved in their use. And everyone is already running the same build.

Its the definition of irony when u are talking about wanting skill, challenge and build diversity and at the same time defending every skilless crap that is so broken to the point where its almost BiS for every single build in the game.

pieratsos

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Stamblade

Just had a 1v1 with a shield stacking sorc.

Sloads was the only dd that did any relevant damage, and that wasn't enormous. The rest was trash dd. Long fight but ofc I never break through all that stuff and get it from aoe.

I check my damage logs after most ganks / 1v1, sloads comes up 3rd or 4th on the list usually.

Guess after all the whining and the nerf comes Ill go bk to doing no dd on sorcs.

Viper nerf, salenes nerf now inc sloads nerf. guess its magica ftw.

BTW I never die from sloads either and I hear its an effective counter to cloak which people also whine about.

Guess Ill just roll a magsorc and bounce around like all the other pros.

If you cant do dmg with anything other than procs then the issue is with you. Viper, selene and every other proc carrying you is the issue with this game. Stop feeling entitled to have sets doing the dmg for you and start by trying to get better at the game.

martinhpb16_ESO

pieratsos wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Stamblade

Just had a 1v1 with a shield stacking sorc.

Sloads was the only dd that did any relevant damage, and that wasn't enormous. The rest was trash dd. Long fight but ofc I never break through all that stuff and get it from aoe.

I check my damage logs after most ganks / 1v1, sloads comes up 3rd or 4th on the list usually.

Guess after all the whining and the nerf comes Ill go bk to doing no dd on sorcs.

Viper nerf, salenes nerf now inc sloads nerf. guess its magica ftw.

BTW I never die from sloads either and I hear its an effective counter to cloak which people also whine about.

Guess Ill just roll a magsorc and bounce around like all the other pros.

If you cant do dmg with anything other than procs then the issue is with you. Viper, selene and every other proc carrying you is the issue with this game. Stop feeling entitled to have sets doing the dmg for you and start by trying to get better at the game.

Sorry not feeling very entitled at all tbh.

pieratsos

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Stamblade

Just had a 1v1 with a shield stacking sorc.

Sloads was the only dd that did any relevant damage, and that wasn't enormous. The rest was trash dd. Long fight but ofc I never break through all that stuff and get it from aoe.

I check my damage logs after most ganks / 1v1, sloads comes up 3rd or 4th on the list usually.

Guess after all the whining and the nerf comes Ill go bk to doing no dd on sorcs.

Viper nerf, salenes nerf now inc sloads nerf. guess its magica ftw.

BTW I never die from sloads either and I hear its an effective counter to cloak which people also whine about.

Guess Ill just roll a magsorc and bounce around like all the other pros.

If you cant do dmg with anything other than procs then the issue is with you. Viper, selene and every other proc carrying you is the issue with this game. Stop feeling entitled to have sets doing the dmg for you and start by trying to get better at the game.

Sorry not feeling very entitled at all tbh.

Nice, now you can stop defending those abominations and get better at the game. You wanted challenge right? Well, there is ur challenge.

Gbnicholson1

I think it’s people who can’t afford the dlc coming on the forums and getting the devs to nerf it to make it worthless to the people who paid for the dlc. I don’t think they should have a say in what gets nerfed it’s like me hoping on a game I never play and telling the devs to nerf things just to be cruel. The response was posted within like 36 hours there’s no way anyone at zos made sure these people aren’t doing as I described.

exeeter702

Gbnicholson1 wrote: »

I think it’s people who can’t afford the dlc coming on the forums and getting the devs to nerf it to make it worthless to the people who paid for the dlc. I don’t think they should have a say in what gets nerfed it’s like me hoping on a game I never play and telling the devs to nerf things just to be cruel.

Because you need the chapter to wear sloads........

Vapirko

@Gbnicholson1 nope, I preordered the chapter and my guild halls have crafting stations attuned to it so it’s literally accessible to anyone in the guild.

Gbnicholson1

Maybe they don’t want to ask someone to make it for them, maybe they know they can’t get rid of jewelry crafting or can’t get cloudrest sets so they go after something they can change. If they are the type that would do something as I described they likely wouldn’t be the type to ask someone to make stuff. It would also likely cost them much more than anyone who owns it and can make it on their own, especially the jewelry. Coupled with other desirable dlc crafted sets, the cost is further compounded. Using your echo chamber powers is much cheaper.

They can’t get zaans and someone went after that ITT. So even if it’s not everyone, as an echo chamber also picks people up like a sponge, it’s definitely some people.

There’s too many people saying it’s a bogus argument and it can be mitigated, and it’s too much of an echo chamber effect going on with the people that don’t like it.

I’m fed up for other reasons as well, I’ve voiced my discontent about the ivory in other threads as well as some other issues. Although they were attentive to concerns I had with pvp, so it’s not like my input doesn’t matter. I don’t expect them to imple,ent every suggestion I make, particularly if there’s good reason to, but echo chambers just aren’t that reason and are t going to be.

Gilvoth

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

If something is broken then you fix what is broken. You dont just throw another broken thing to counter it. If shieldstacking is an issue, adjust shieldstacking. If cloaking is an issue, adjust cloak. If permablocking is an issue adjust blocking.

And so we end up with wut? all running the same build. They massacred pve challenge do we really want pvp to turn that way too?

Too much whining about what they die from imho.

they are going to say and do anything they can to defend and allow thier builds to be overpowered, the armor sets and weapons right now are not overpowered.
theres nothing wrong with wearing armor or weapons intended as a counter to thier builds.
i dont wear sloads because it pulls me out of stealth, but the sets i do wear as counters to overpowered builds are justified.

Gbnicholson1

I’m not even in remote agreeement that it’s overpowered, and poisoning the well against anyone who wants to keep it the way it is is also not a valid argument for a change to be made and my investments to be thrown away.

killimandrosb16_ESO

I wear sloads now, and my kill ratio has increased radically in cyrodiil and in battlegrounds. So I can totlly understand all in defence of the set. Its cool feeling skilled, I admit I enjoy killing players who pre-sloads were unaccessible for me.
Now I figure the tweak we will get, is sloads doing same damage, but they will change it from oblivion to disease or poison damage. Sloads fixed.

Feanor

Gbnicholson1 wrote: »

I’m not even in remote agreeement that it’s overpowered, and poisoning the well against anyone who wants to keep it the way it is is also not a valid argument for a change to be made and my investments to be thrown away.

Of course the investment was made because the set isn’t remotely overpowered.

Waffennacht

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

I wear sloads now, and my kill ratio has increased radically in cyrodiil and in battlegrounds. So I can totlly understand all in defence of the set. Its cool feeling skilled, I admit I enjoy killing players who pre-sloads were unaccessible for me.
Now I figure the tweak we will get, is sloads doing same damage, but they will change it from oblivion to disease or poison damage. Sloads fixed.

Which would defeat the point. I'm thinking they'll add a longer cooldown so it can't proc back to back.

You can't change the damage type and have it be viable

You can't reduce the damage and have it be viable

You can adjust proc rate/cooldown/stacking and have it be viable

The_Protagonist

Waffennacht wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

I wear sloads now, and my kill ratio has increased radically in cyrodiil and in battlegrounds. So I can totlly understand all in defence of the set. Its cool feeling skilled, I admit I enjoy killing players who pre-sloads were unaccessible for me.
Now I figure the tweak we will get, is sloads doing same damage, but they will change it from oblivion to disease or poison damage. Sloads fixed.

Which would defeat the point. I'm thinking they'll add a longer cooldown so it can't proc back to back.

You can't change the damage type and have it be viable

You can't reduce the damage and have it be viable

You can adjust proc rate/cooldown/stacking and have it be viable

Let see what ZOS does to it, I understand that it is really over performing even in comparison to strong bleed builds. It will be interesting to see whether they destroy it or just baby slap it. I am not going to defend this set anymore. OP is OP.

Waffennacht

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

I wear sloads now, and my kill ratio has increased radically in cyrodiil and in battlegrounds. So I can totlly understand all in defence of the set. Its cool feeling skilled, I admit I enjoy killing players who pre-sloads were unaccessible for me.
Now I figure the tweak we will get, is sloads doing same damage, but they will change it from oblivion to disease or poison damage. Sloads fixed.

Which would defeat the point. I'm thinking they'll add a longer cooldown so it can't proc back to back.

You can't change the damage type and have it be viable

You can't reduce the damage and have it be viable

You can adjust proc rate/cooldown/stacking and have it be viable

Let see what ZOS does to it, I understand that it is really over performing even in comparison to strong bleed builds. It will be interesting to see whether they destroy it or just baby slap it. I am not going to defend this set anymore. OP is OP.

It's really on the verge of being useless.

I personally think they'll do what they did to Oblivion Damage Glyph, aka make it completely worthless unless paired with Torug (I mean it was actually a good glyph to put on any weapon but now....)

The_Protagonist

Waffennacht wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

I wear sloads now, and my kill ratio has increased radically in cyrodiil and in battlegrounds. So I can totlly understand all in defence of the set. Its cool feeling skilled, I admit I enjoy killing players who pre-sloads were unaccessible for me.
Now I figure the tweak we will get, is sloads doing same damage, but they will change it from oblivion to disease or poison damage. Sloads fixed.

Which would defeat the point. I'm thinking they'll add a longer cooldown so it can't proc back to back.

You can't change the damage type and have it be viable

You can't reduce the damage and have it be viable

You can adjust proc rate/cooldown/stacking and have it be viable

Let see what ZOS does to it, I understand that it is really over performing even in comparison to strong bleed builds. It will be interesting to see whether they destroy it or just baby slap it. I am not going to defend this set anymore. OP is OP.

It's really on the verge of being useless.

I personally think they'll do what they did to Oblivion Damage Glyph, aka make it completely worthless unless paired with Torug (I mean it was actually a good glyph to put on any weapon but now....)

Quite possible, let's see.

BohnT

Waffennacht wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

I wear sloads now, and my kill ratio has increased radically in cyrodiil and in battlegrounds. So I can totlly understand all in defence of the set. Its cool feeling skilled, I admit I enjoy killing players who pre-sloads were unaccessible for me.
Now I figure the tweak we will get, is sloads doing same damage, but they will change it from oblivion to disease or poison damage. Sloads fixed.

Which would defeat the point. I'm thinking they'll add a longer cooldown so it can't proc back to back.

You can't change the damage type and have it be viable

You can't reduce the damage and have it be viable

You can adjust proc rate/cooldown/stacking and have it be viable

Let see what ZOS does to it, I understand that it is really over performing even in comparison to strong bleed builds. It will be interesting to see whether they destroy it or just baby slap it. I am not going to defend this set anymore. OP is OP.

It's really on the verge of being useless.

I personally think they'll do what they did to Oblivion Damage Glyph, aka make it completely worthless unless paired with Torug (I mean it was actually a good glyph to put on any weapon but now....)

The glyph was totally overperfoming back then with infused, it did what? 2.3k or something?

Oblivion damage shouldn't exist at all, it's not the best in every situation but it's always strong and that's a huge issue in a game which supports active counterplay, something that ignores any counterplay is just too strong especially when it gives you a free pass against three of the most used specs in the game

technohic

They could start by making it respect it’s cool down period. Had someone put it on me early on and cleansed it, it applied again right away, cleansed again with extended ritual, it was right back on again.

Making sure it respects the CD and maybe having it apply only on direct damage rather than DOTs would be a good start.


And then the problem with procs In general is if they are any good at all; you can put them on 50k health and perma block builds. They really should nerf base damage across the board and then make them scale off stats to where a full DPS build is required to get them to hit like they do now.

The_Protagonist

technohic wrote: »

They could start by making it respect it’s cool down period. Had someone put it on me early on and cleansed it, it applied again right away, cleansed again with extended ritual, it was right back on again.

Making sure it respects the CD and maybe having it apply only on direct damage rather than DOTs would be a good start.


And then the problem with procs In general is if they are any good at all; you can put them on 50k health and perma block builds. They really should nerf base damage across the board and then make them scale off stats to where a full DPS build is required to get them to hit like they do now.

Scaling would only be possible if the damage is converted into either physical (poison/disease/bleed) or magical (fire/shock/frost/magic) damage, because as I have experienced, oblivion does not scale with any stat like WD or SD, I don't know if it scales with max health

The only easy way to change this set is by changing the proc condition to proc off direct critical damage or only dots or class ability with a higher cool down and an adjustment to damage.

Savos_Saren

Good to see.

Now, while they're at it- get rid of bleed or make a magic version of bleed.

Why is it that stamina has access to damage that ignores ALL physical penetration- but magic builds don't have damage that ignores all spell penetration?

If you think about it: the "balance" of armor passives is that light armor gets higher penetration while medium armor gets higher damage. But if you can wear medium armor (which gets 12% higher damage) AND gain 100% physical penetration- isn't that unbalanced?