Calling out Sorcerer haters

Johngo0036

NO CLASS should have unblockable, undodgeable skills or skill with no counterplay,

I play a Magblade with Torugspact, wizzards riposte and Valkyn mostly
or
Stamblade with shadowwalker, Hundingsrage+1 kena, 1 Velidreths.

Many releases back dodgeroll got a huge nerf/cost increase,
How did we get back to the dodgeroll meta AGAIN.

I would rather have old crystal frags back TBH.

Emma_Overload

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

DDuke

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

Feanor

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

Not saying Rune Cage is fine as is, but I find these comparisons a bit disingenuous. The base damage difference between the two skills is a whopping 487, while Fossilize has a 3 second immobilize attached after the stun ends and is cheaper by 810 base cost.

While I think the radius reduction from 12 to 8m was unwarranted, I don’t see why DK would need 28m when their class gap closer is 22m (besides DK being all about melee).

Let’s not pretend Fossilize is a somehow minor version of Rune Cage. It’s different and very powerful.

technohic

NBs, Sorcs, and DKs arguing about whos CC is better and Templars be like




And Wardens all like

Feanor

@technohic

Well yeah, I’m all for #bringbackthestunonshards.

DDuke

Feanor wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

Not saying Rune Cage is fine as is, but I find these comparisons a bit disingenuous. The base damage difference between the two skills is a whopping 487, while Fossilize has a 3 second immobilize attached after the stun ends and is cheaper by 810 base cost.

While I think the radius reduction from 12 to 8m was unwarranted, I don’t see why DK would need 28m when their class gap closer is 22m (besides DK being all about melee).

Let’s not pretend Fossilize is a somehow minor version of Rune Cage. It’s different and very powerful.

Nothing disingenuous about it.

With 5x BSW 5x Axiom 2x Skoria I get a 5,7k tooltip on Fossilize, where as a Sorc with 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery (less damage than the DK setup since you can't go max spell dmg due to sorc shields scaling only on magicka) gets 8,8k tooltip on Rune Cage.

Stop looking at "base damage" and start looking at skillcoefficients.

Fossilize:
$1 = 0.05172 Magicka + 0.54186 SpellDamage - 1.93997
Magicka, R2 = 1.00000, Ratio = 10.48

Rune Cage:
$1 = 0.07746 Magicka + 0.81341 SpellDamage - 1.17706
Magicka, R2 = 1.00000, Ratio = 10.50


...and I really don't care about the root - as a medium armor character atleast you are dodging anyway after getting hit by a burst combo & CC breaking (if you're still alive, which you won't be after Rune Cage).

usmguy1234

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

The problem is for sorcs at least is we've got to be able to burst at distance. We can't take damage like a dk can. I can tank several people at melee range with my mdk in light armor. My sorc would melt.

Feanor

@DDuke

As a magicka character you very much care about the root portion of fossilize as it forces you to waste stamina a second time after breaking free from the CC. It’s a luxury you don’t have, and the full skill duration is a convenient 5.5 seconds, which makes waiting it out a non option.

I’d rather fight Rune Cage than fossilize on my mSorc.

DDuke

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

The problem is for sorcs at least is we've got to be able to burst at distance. We can't take damage like a dk can. I can tank several people at melee range with my mdk in light armor. My sorc would melt.

I'm not saying the range is uncalled for - most sorc abilities are ranged where as DK ones are melee based.

I'm saying it dealing (almost) twice the damage of Fossilize is, while still having that exponentially bigger range.


If anything, it should be dealing less damage than Fossilize (or delivering it in a different way, e.g. DoT).


That said, regarding the rest of your post... that's really more about how people like building their sorcerers: shield based defense etc - compared to how DKs go for heals/S&B usually (I play mine with Healing Ward).


If you were to build your sorc for damage mitigation/heals as well I'd say you could be very tanky as well with that.

A heavy armor Storm Knight/Thunderbug S&B sorc is on my list of non-meta builds to try.

DDuke

Feanor wrote: »

@DDuke

As a magicka character you very much care about the root portion of fossilize as it forces you to waste stamina a second time after breaking free from the CC. It’s a luxury you don’t have, and the full skill duration is a convenient 5.5 seconds, which makes waiting it out a non option.

I’d rather fight Rune Cage than fossilize on my mSorc.

Cool, so let's remove Rune Cage damage and replace it with a root. Problem solved.

Feanor

DDuke wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@DDuke

As a magicka character you very much care about the root portion of fossilize as it forces you to waste stamina a second time after breaking free from the CC. It’s a luxury you don’t have, and the full skill duration is a convenient 5.5 seconds, which makes waiting it out a non option.

I’d rather fight Rune Cage than fossilize on my mSorc.

Cool, so let's remove Rune Cage damage and replace it with a root. Problem solved.

Sorc already has a root that nobody uses except in a group support build. You know, that root with the 8m range and the negligible effects.

And if you mean a Fossilize with 28m but no damage, I’m sure plenty of people would still complain. It would actually prolong the kill window vs magicka characters.

usmguy1234

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

The problem is for sorcs at least is we've got to be able to burst at distance. We can't take damage like a dk can. I can tank several people at melee range with my mdk in light armor. My sorc would melt.

I'm not saying the range is uncalled for - most sorc abilities are ranged where as DK ones are melee based.

I'm saying it dealing (almost) twice the damage of Fossilize is, while still having that exponentially bigger range.


If anything, it should be dealing less damage than Fossilize (or delivering it in a different way, e.g. DoT).


That said, regarding the rest of your post... that's really more about how people like building their sorcerers: shield based defense etc - compared to how DKs go for heals/S&B usually (I play mine with Healing Ward).


If you were to build your sorc for damage mitigation/heals as well I'd say you could be very tanky as well with that.

A heavy armor Storm Knight/Thunderbug S&B sorc is on my list of non-meta builds to try.

I agree. The damage doesn't matter to me honestly. My sorc build has about 45k-47k mag depending on the food I use and my rune cage only hits for about 2k... but having a controllable cc that you can line up with timed burst is a must. Honestly I wish they'd just revert cfrags.

I do like your thought on the non meta tank.

I ran pariah/transmutation/blood spawn on mine...made him a snare ult tank. Fun as hell.

Irylia

Swimguy wrote: »

StamDK

Shackle-Veli/trollking

magsorcs are busted as ***. 13k shields, free 100% crit resist, immune to resistant debuffs, burst heals, and heals on crit, 0 counterplay stun with 3 skills made for bursting people down that is EASY to stack and time.

there is literally NOTHING challenging about magsorc except for not responding to hate mail. If you main a magsorc thats just pathetic

Koolio wrote: »

So I’ll play this game. Hopefully I do get some decent suggestions from Mag Sorc Mains.

Woodelf NB DW 2h
Truth Bone Pirate
41k Stam
4800 WD
41 Crit
2600 Inpen
3100 Stam Regen buffed
23k Health

Trying not to be a cloaking guy through the entire fight. Sorc has mines and Engine Guardian. And is of a very high experience level.

The scenario is generally like this. I’ll light attack to start a fight. Mine go down and engine Guardian is up. I have to have perfect timing on a combo(generally heavy surprise incap scourge) to make sure they are not fully shielded. Trying to land this combo is very difficult considering that have to have about 3k Shield left no CC immunity No engine Guardian up and No mines down. If almost any of these circumstances are met they will end up surviving.

They on the other hand they don’t have to worry about the majority of their combo. They sit in mines and behind engine Guardian. Even if I bash the engine it still gets 2-3 seconds of being targeted before it goes into the ground. That’s if 2-3 engine guards aren’t up or just continuously spawning back to back. They curse fury with drag in hand. Both curse and fury (at least the execute portion is undodgeable) then they meteor tune frag. Turns meteor unblockable frag undodgeable with the other two moves being unblockable and undodgeable. If I dont die then by this point I’m almost out of everything trying to survive. Then die to the second hit of curse and multiple undodgeable Endless fury executes.

If I attack to quickly then I either get Mined and stunned in them if Engine Guardian takes the full combo it starts all over.

This is pretty close to what the majority of the fight go with High end Magic Sorcs. Their combo is almost 100% undodgeable and unblockable. Mine is dodgeable blockable in melee range and hits Engine Guardian 40% of the time.


This is if they don’t stay stacking for 5 mins wasting all my resources.

Truth bone pirate on weapons or helm shoulder?
Unless you enjoy dw playstyle and are utilizing something like steel nado/rending slashes with master dw i would suggest running 2h
Bone pirate 5x body truth 3x jewelry w/ 2 healthy jewelry 2x tk/bs/selenes it survivability is fine for you. And then 4/5 truth on back bar dw. It lasts 10 seconds and shuffle will proc the bonus provided you have tactician in the center blue tree which you can easily get via buffing master at arms/heavy light attack dmg.

Few options:
1. asylum 2h for more ult gen into incaps especially on a sorc when they get low hp but can’t heal to full until heal ward goes off. Not only does executioner obliterate a low hp sorc but you will gain 10-14 ult per cast.
2. Master dw rending is extremely strong pressure and you can run truth on your 2h either front or back bar depending on how you prefer to play. Oblivion enchant on infused off hand weapon and beserk on main. Double dot poisons on 2h.


Then you can run executioner for a higher dmg ani cancel execution if 2h main

Surprise attack/stampede(ambush)/executioner/fear/rally/Incap

Rending(relentless)/shuffle/shade/cloak/vigor/soul siphon or undo.

You may lack regen so tri glyphs are an option to not only increase your hp and make one shotting you less likely but it will extend your mag pool for utility.

Immov pots when you see meteor being dropped on you. Or if using undo you can undo during meteor drop and absorb the hit without taking dmg. It’s a cheaper ult and nb’s have a much easier time gaining ult that it should always be up during meteor combos.

Beat the sorc in a Stam battle. Force them to break on cd

Warrior/weapon dmg glyphs

Biro123

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

The problem is for sorcs at least is we've got to be able to burst at distance. We can't take damage like a dk can. I can tank several people at melee range with my mdk in light armor. My sorc would melt.

I'm not saying the range is uncalled for - most sorc abilities are ranged where as DK ones are melee based.

I'm saying it dealing (almost) twice the damage of Fossilize is, while still having that exponentially bigger range.


If anything, it should be dealing less damage than Fossilize (or delivering it in a different way, e.g. DoT).


That said, regarding the rest of your post... that's really more about how people like building their sorcerers: shield based defense etc - compared to how DKs go for heals/S&B usually (I play mine with Healing Ward).


If you were to build your sorc for damage mitigation/heals as well I'd say you could be very tanky as well with that.

A heavy armor Storm Knight/Thunderbug S&B sorc is on my list of non-meta builds to try.

I agree. The damage doesn't matter to me honestly. My sorc build has about 45k-47k mag depending on the food I use and my rune cage only hits for about 2k... but having a controllable cc that you can line up with timed burst is a must. Honestly I wish they'd just revert cfrags.

I do like your thought on the non meta tank.

I ran pariah/transmutation/blood spawn on mine...made him a snare ult tank. Fun as hell.

Tried one based on thunderbug/reactive quite a while ago.. Had real problem with sustain and heals (but then I was a much worse player back then).. btw, reactive could be an option for surviving CC on a med build.. especially now it can be got in jewellery and transmuted. Anyone tried it?

Thogard

usmguy1234 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sorcs are fine.

The only thing i don't agree with is rune cage, it's a stupid skill on a class that times multiple skills for burst. There is no counterplay just got to eat a curse/ meteor/ frag/ rune cage + fury.

That and the fact you can't do anything about dark deal if they have cc immunity, just gotta let them get 5k hp and stats a cast..

Fair enough. I don't even use rune cage on my sorc.

Mihael wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sorcs are fine.

The only thing i don't agree with is rune cage, it's a stupid skill on a class that times multiple skills for burst. There is no counterplay just got to eat a curse/ meteor/ frag/ rune cage + fury.

That and the fact you can't do anything about dark deal if they have cc immunity, just gotta let them get 5k hp and stats a cast..

Yeah I think tune cage is the main problem specially after they took away wardens cc because it dealt damage lol

I know ppl say rune hits for 3-5k. How much damage does skalks do?

It does about as much as haunting curse.

There are so many sorcs running around that I don’t want to start playing mine again.. it would be too form lol.

Sorcs are a tough class to balance. It’s very much an all-or-nothing class.. either the sorc hp stays at 100% bc of Shields, or shields drop and the sorc almost instantly dies... and the sorc burst combo either instantly kills you or you survive it and heal back to full.

Now, though, dots are more common in the game, and more fights in cyro are starting off With people instantly going down to around 80% hp lol.

Sloads makes it much easier for the sorc to get the opponent into kill conditions... sloads brings me down to 80%ish and the meteor / rune cage / curse / force pulse / fury finishes the deal... where as before sloads (or rune cGe’s dmg bump) the kill conditions to trigger fury would still be 10-20% away and the opponent doesn’t actually drop below 40%.

DDuke

Biro123 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

The problem is for sorcs at least is we've got to be able to burst at distance. We can't take damage like a dk can. I can tank several people at melee range with my mdk in light armor. My sorc would melt.

I'm not saying the range is uncalled for - most sorc abilities are ranged where as DK ones are melee based.

I'm saying it dealing (almost) twice the damage of Fossilize is, while still having that exponentially bigger range.


If anything, it should be dealing less damage than Fossilize (or delivering it in a different way, e.g. DoT).


That said, regarding the rest of your post... that's really more about how people like building their sorcerers: shield based defense etc - compared to how DKs go for heals/S&B usually (I play mine with Healing Ward).


If you were to build your sorc for damage mitigation/heals as well I'd say you could be very tanky as well with that.

A heavy armor Storm Knight/Thunderbug S&B sorc is on my list of non-meta builds to try.

I agree. The damage doesn't matter to me honestly. My sorc build has about 45k-47k mag depending on the food I use and my rune cage only hits for about 2k... but having a controllable cc that you can line up with timed burst is a must. Honestly I wish they'd just revert cfrags.

I do like your thought on the non meta tank.

I ran pariah/transmutation/blood spawn on mine...made him a snare ult tank. Fun as hell.

Tried one based on thunderbug/reactive quite a while ago.. Had real problem with sustain and heals (but then I was a much worse player back then).. btw, reactive could be an option for surviving CC on a med build.. especially now it can be got in jewellery and transmuted. Anyone tried it?

Reactive... Impregnable... Brass... all of those work, but they also transform your playstyle from damage avoidance/burst to damage mitigation/DoT pressure.

And most of the times you'd just be better off getting that mitigation with heavy armor since it's more suited to do that than medium (much of the mitigation goes to waste if you're dodge rolling damage/CCs anyway).

usmguy1234

Thogard wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sorcs are fine.

The only thing i don't agree with is rune cage, it's a stupid skill on a class that times multiple skills for burst. There is no counterplay just got to eat a curse/ meteor/ frag/ rune cage + fury.

That and the fact you can't do anything about dark deal if they have cc immunity, just gotta let them get 5k hp and stats a cast..

Fair enough. I don't even use rune cage on my sorc.

Mihael wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sorcs are fine.

The only thing i don't agree with is rune cage, it's a stupid skill on a class that times multiple skills for burst. There is no counterplay just got to eat a curse/ meteor/ frag/ rune cage + fury.

That and the fact you can't do anything about dark deal if they have cc immunity, just gotta let them get 5k hp and stats a cast..

Yeah I think tune cage is the main problem specially after they took away wardens cc because it dealt damage lol

I know ppl say rune hits for 3-5k. How much damage does skalks do?

It does about as much as haunting curse.

There are so many sorcs running around that I don’t want to start playing mine again.. it would be too form lol.

Sorcs are a tough class to balance. It’s very much an all-or-nothing class.. either the sorc hp stays at 100% bc of Shields, or shields drop and the sorc almost instantly dies... and the sorc burst combo either instantly kills you or you survive it and heal back to full.

Now, though, dots are more common in the game, and more fights in cyro are starting off With people instantly going down to around 80% hp lol.

Sloads makes it much easier for the sorc to get the opponent into kill conditions... sloads brings me down to 80%ish and the meteor / rune cage / curse / force pulse / fury finishes the deal... where as before sloads (or rune cGe’s dmg bump) the kill conditions to trigger fury would still be 10-20% away and the opponent doesn’t actually drop below 40%.

Must be the builds you are up against. My haunting tooltip is 12k whereas my rune is about 6k. In pvp you're looking at 5 and 2k respectively... not really overwhelming. This is on a 3k spell damage 45k magicka build for reference.

Minalan

technohic wrote: »

NBs, Sorcs, and DKs arguing about whos CC is better and Templars be like




And Wardens all like

I’m sorry... this is so awesome!

Minalan

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

The problem is for sorcs at least is we've got to be able to burst at distance. We can't take damage like a dk can. I can tank several people at melee range with my mdk in light armor. My sorc would melt.

I'm not saying the range is uncalled for - most sorc abilities are ranged where as DK ones are melee based.

I'm saying it dealing (almost) twice the damage of Fossilize is, while still having that exponentially bigger range.


If anything, it should be dealing less damage than Fossilize (or delivering it in a different way, e.g. DoT).


That said, regarding the rest of your post... that's really more about how people like building their sorcerers: shield based defense etc - compared to how DKs go for heals/S&B usually (I play mine with Healing Ward).


If you were to build your sorc for damage mitigation/heals as well I'd say you could be very tanky as well with that.

A heavy armor Storm Knight/Thunderbug S&B sorc is on my list of non-meta builds to try.

I agree. The damage doesn't matter to me honestly. My sorc build has about 45k-47k mag depending on the food I use and my rune cage only hits for about 2k... but having a controllable cc that you can line up with timed burst is a must. Honestly I wish they'd just revert cfrags.

I do like your thought on the non meta tank.

I ran pariah/transmutation/blood spawn on mine...made him a snare ult tank. Fun as hell.

I don’t care about the damage much, it should be a DOT, pressure instead of burst.

Personally I’d rather have fear. I don’t care if it doesn’t do damage, or that it’s short range. It’s an AOE unblockable nondodgeable CC.

I’d (ab)use it constantly to fight more than one opponent, or when I’m getting chased in rocks and I need to heal up..

usmguy1234

Minalan wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

The problem is for sorcs at least is we've got to be able to burst at distance. We can't take damage like a dk can. I can tank several people at melee range with my mdk in light armor. My sorc would melt.

I'm not saying the range is uncalled for - most sorc abilities are ranged where as DK ones are melee based.

I'm saying it dealing (almost) twice the damage of Fossilize is, while still having that exponentially bigger range.


If anything, it should be dealing less damage than Fossilize (or delivering it in a different way, e.g. DoT).


That said, regarding the rest of your post... that's really more about how people like building their sorcerers: shield based defense etc - compared to how DKs go for heals/S&B usually (I play mine with Healing Ward).


If you were to build your sorc for damage mitigation/heals as well I'd say you could be very tanky as well with that.

A heavy armor Storm Knight/Thunderbug S&B sorc is on my list of non-meta builds to try.

I agree. The damage doesn't matter to me honestly. My sorc build has about 45k-47k mag depending on the food I use and my rune cage only hits for about 2k... but having a controllable cc that you can line up with timed burst is a must. Honestly I wish they'd just revert cfrags.

I do like your thought on the non meta tank.

I ran pariah/transmutation/blood spawn on mine...made him a snare ult tank. Fun as hell.

I don’t care about the damage much, it should be a DOT, pressure instead of burst.

Personally I’d rather have fear. I don’t care if it doesn’t do damage, or that it’s short range. It’s an AOE unblockable nondodgeable CC.

I’d (ab)use it constantly to fight more than one opponent, or when I’m getting chased in rocks and I need to heal up..

Yeah fear is s really strong cc skill... especially with stam characters humping your leg.

DDuke

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

The problem is for sorcs at least is we've got to be able to burst at distance. We can't take damage like a dk can. I can tank several people at melee range with my mdk in light armor. My sorc would melt.

I'm not saying the range is uncalled for - most sorc abilities are ranged where as DK ones are melee based.

I'm saying it dealing (almost) twice the damage of Fossilize is, while still having that exponentially bigger range.


If anything, it should be dealing less damage than Fossilize (or delivering it in a different way, e.g. DoT).


That said, regarding the rest of your post... that's really more about how people like building their sorcerers: shield based defense etc - compared to how DKs go for heals/S&B usually (I play mine with Healing Ward).


If you were to build your sorc for damage mitigation/heals as well I'd say you could be very tanky as well with that.

A heavy armor Storm Knight/Thunderbug S&B sorc is on my list of non-meta builds to try.

I agree. The damage doesn't matter to me honestly. My sorc build has about 45k-47k mag depending on the food I use and my rune cage only hits for about 2k... but having a controllable cc that you can line up with timed burst is a must. Honestly I wish they'd just revert cfrags.

I do like your thought on the non meta tank.

I ran pariah/transmutation/blood spawn on mine...made him a snare ult tank. Fun as hell.

I don’t care about the damage much, it should be a DOT, pressure instead of burst.

Personally I’d rather have fear. I don’t care if it doesn’t do damage, or that it’s short range. It’s an AOE unblockable nondodgeable CC.

I’d (ab)use it constantly to fight more than one opponent, or when I’m getting chased in rocks and I need to heal up..

Yeah fear is s really strong cc skill... especially with stam characters humping your leg.

I wonder how many actual NB players think that... don't get me wrong it's a decent skill as many still slot it, but I for example unslotted it years ago and so have many other people I know.

Problem with it is that it's a tempo loss since it deals no damage and you have strong CC options with damage included - Cloak->Surprise Attack & of course... Incap.

You don't generally kill good players with a fear CC, or so I've found over the years.

OdinForge

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

The problem is for sorcs at least is we've got to be able to burst at distance. We can't take damage like a dk can. I can tank several people at melee range with my mdk in light armor. My sorc would melt.

I'm not saying the range is uncalled for - most sorc abilities are ranged where as DK ones are melee based.

I'm saying it dealing (almost) twice the damage of Fossilize is, while still having that exponentially bigger range.


If anything, it should be dealing less damage than Fossilize (or delivering it in a different way, e.g. DoT).


That said, regarding the rest of your post... that's really more about how people like building their sorcerers: shield based defense etc - compared to how DKs go for heals/S&B usually (I play mine with Healing Ward).


If you were to build your sorc for damage mitigation/heals as well I'd say you could be very tanky as well with that.

A heavy armor Storm Knight/Thunderbug S&B sorc is on my list of non-meta builds to try.

I agree. The damage doesn't matter to me honestly. My sorc build has about 45k-47k mag depending on the food I use and my rune cage only hits for about 2k... but having a controllable cc that you can line up with timed burst is a must. Honestly I wish they'd just revert cfrags.

I do like your thought on the non meta tank.

I ran pariah/transmutation/blood spawn on mine...made him a snare ult tank. Fun as hell.

I don’t care about the damage much, it should be a DOT, pressure instead of burst.

Personally I’d rather have fear. I don’t care if it doesn’t do damage, or that it’s short range. It’s an AOE unblockable nondodgeable CC.

I’d (ab)use it constantly to fight more than one opponent, or when I’m getting chased in rocks and I need to heal up..

Yeah fear is s really strong cc skill... especially with stam characters humping your leg.

I wonder how many actual NB players think that... don't get me wrong it's a decent skill as many still slot it, but I for example unslotted it years ago and so have many other people I know.

Problem with it is that it's a tempo loss since it deals no damage and you have strong CC options with damage included - Cloak->Surprise Attack & of course... Incap.

You don't generally kill good players with a fear CC, or so I've found over the years.

Fear was amazing in 1.5 and prior because it gave nightblades a way around block, and a way to drain stamina. "Perma-block" existed in 1.5, but with fear you could actually stam out a 1H magdk.

It's still a good skill for the passives it activates and the debuffs it gives but I routinely play with or without it on stamnb and magnb.

usmguy1234

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

The problem is for sorcs at least is we've got to be able to burst at distance. We can't take damage like a dk can. I can tank several people at melee range with my mdk in light armor. My sorc would melt.

I'm not saying the range is uncalled for - most sorc abilities are ranged where as DK ones are melee based.

I'm saying it dealing (almost) twice the damage of Fossilize is, while still having that exponentially bigger range.


If anything, it should be dealing less damage than Fossilize (or delivering it in a different way, e.g. DoT).


That said, regarding the rest of your post... that's really more about how people like building their sorcerers: shield based defense etc - compared to how DKs go for heals/S&B usually (I play mine with Healing Ward).


If you were to build your sorc for damage mitigation/heals as well I'd say you could be very tanky as well with that.

A heavy armor Storm Knight/Thunderbug S&B sorc is on my list of non-meta builds to try.

I agree. The damage doesn't matter to me honestly. My sorc build has about 45k-47k mag depending on the food I use and my rune cage only hits for about 2k... but having a controllable cc that you can line up with timed burst is a must. Honestly I wish they'd just revert cfrags.

I do like your thought on the non meta tank.

I ran pariah/transmutation/blood spawn on mine...made him a snare ult tank. Fun as hell.

I don’t care about the damage much, it should be a DOT, pressure instead of burst.

Personally I’d rather have fear. I don’t care if it doesn’t do damage, or that it’s short range. It’s an AOE unblockable nondodgeable CC.

I’d (ab)use it constantly to fight more than one opponent, or when I’m getting chased in rocks and I need to heal up..

Yeah fear is s really strong cc skill... especially with stam characters humping your leg.

I wonder how many actual NB players think that... don't get me wrong it's a decent skill as many still slot it, but I for example unslotted it years ago and so have many other people I know.

Problem with it is that it's a tempo loss since it deals no damage and you have strong CC options with damage included - Cloak->Surprise Attack & of course... Incap.

You don't generally kill good players with a fear CC, or so I've found over the years.

I was thinking more for the caster class magblade to get aggro off of you. Stam you are absolutely right... no need for it.

TelvanniWizard

Sorcs need a good buff, like, 50% more damage in their magic damage skills

Minalan

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

The problem is for sorcs at least is we've got to be able to burst at distance. We can't take damage like a dk can. I can tank several people at melee range with my mdk in light armor. My sorc would melt.

I'm not saying the range is uncalled for - most sorc abilities are ranged where as DK ones are melee based.

I'm saying it dealing (almost) twice the damage of Fossilize is, while still having that exponentially bigger range.


If anything, it should be dealing less damage than Fossilize (or delivering it in a different way, e.g. DoT).


That said, regarding the rest of your post... that's really more about how people like building their sorcerers: shield based defense etc - compared to how DKs go for heals/S&B usually (I play mine with Healing Ward).


If you were to build your sorc for damage mitigation/heals as well I'd say you could be very tanky as well with that.

A heavy armor Storm Knight/Thunderbug S&B sorc is on my list of non-meta builds to try.

I agree. The damage doesn't matter to me honestly. My sorc build has about 45k-47k mag depending on the food I use and my rune cage only hits for about 2k... but having a controllable cc that you can line up with timed burst is a must. Honestly I wish they'd just revert cfrags.

I do like your thought on the non meta tank.

I ran pariah/transmutation/blood spawn on mine...made him a snare ult tank. Fun as hell.

I don’t care about the damage much, it should be a DOT, pressure instead of burst.

Personally I’d rather have fear. I don’t care if it doesn’t do damage, or that it’s short range. It’s an AOE unblockable nondodgeable CC.

I’d (ab)use it constantly to fight more than one opponent, or when I’m getting chased in rocks and I need to heal up..

Yeah fear is s really strong cc skill... especially with stam characters humping your leg.

I wonder how many actual NB players think that... don't get me wrong it's a decent skill as many still slot it, but I for example unslotted it years ago and so have many other people I know.

Problem with it is that it's a tempo loss since it deals no damage and you have strong CC options with damage included - Cloak->Surprise Attack & of course... Incap.

You don't generally kill good players with a fear CC, or so I've found over the years.

I was thinking more for the caster class magblade to get aggro off of you. Stam you are absolutely right... no need for it.

If you nb’s don’t want it... Templars would gladly take it off your hands.

usmguy1234

Minalan wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

I have no problem to remove the damage from rune cage. But we need an unblockable and undodable CC otherwise wont wont kill rollerblades or Builds with a lot block capacity

I’m fine with rune cage being undodgeable, however, if I’m not mistaken, besides sorc, nightblade is the only class that actually has an unblockable stun in its class skill lines. The difference is that nightblade have to be close, which involves risk.

Rune cage, on the other hand, is ranged and is especially useful when you outnumber your opponent (you little zergling sorcs, spamming rune cage and fury). Mass hysteria is especially good when the user is outnumbered (which is arguably less scummy in a way). Do you see my point?

Lastly, most classes have trouble dealing full damage to block builds, besides nightblade and sorc. But when it comes to timing sorc has more potential than nightblade. And we all know that timing is the most important dps factor when you’re fighting a block build. You have a short window to actually deal damage while their block is down. So basically, if sorcs lost there unblockable stun they’d just be more on par with the other 3 classes that don’t have one.

Also DK has an unblockable and undodgeable stun. And ofc nb and Dk CC is close range cause these classes are meant to be melee of u take a look at their class skills.

Sorc is meant to be range and we need a CC to Land our attacks cause all of them can be dodged. Okay, curse not but who dies to curse alone?

Only classes that dont have unblockable CC are warden and templar.

And to clarify, i never ever *** zerg. If u want proof: go youtube and type in "gnozo eso "

No joke! Why is it OK when a DK murders you with Fossilize and Meteor combo, but it's "overpowered" when a Sorc does the same thing with Rune Cage and Meteor?

Here's a little tidbit of information:
Fossilize deals half the damage of Rune Cage.
Fossilize has 28m less range.


Ask yourself which of these two abilities is overperforming and which one is fine.

The problem is for sorcs at least is we've got to be able to burst at distance. We can't take damage like a dk can. I can tank several people at melee range with my mdk in light armor. My sorc would melt.

I'm not saying the range is uncalled for - most sorc abilities are ranged where as DK ones are melee based.

I'm saying it dealing (almost) twice the damage of Fossilize is, while still having that exponentially bigger range.


If anything, it should be dealing less damage than Fossilize (or delivering it in a different way, e.g. DoT).


That said, regarding the rest of your post... that's really more about how people like building their sorcerers: shield based defense etc - compared to how DKs go for heals/S&B usually (I play mine with Healing Ward).


If you were to build your sorc for damage mitigation/heals as well I'd say you could be very tanky as well with that.

A heavy armor Storm Knight/Thunderbug S&B sorc is on my list of non-meta builds to try.

I agree. The damage doesn't matter to me honestly. My sorc build has about 45k-47k mag depending on the food I use and my rune cage only hits for about 2k... but having a controllable cc that you can line up with timed burst is a must. Honestly I wish they'd just revert cfrags.

I do like your thought on the non meta tank.

I ran pariah/transmutation/blood spawn on mine...made him a snare ult tank. Fun as hell.

I don’t care about the damage much, it should be a DOT, pressure instead of burst.

Personally I’d rather have fear. I don’t care if it doesn’t do damage, or that it’s short range. It’s an AOE unblockable nondodgeable CC.

I’d (ab)use it constantly to fight more than one opponent, or when I’m getting chased in rocks and I need to heal up..

Yeah fear is s really strong cc skill... especially with stam characters humping your leg.

I wonder how many actual NB players think that... don't get me wrong it's a decent skill as many still slot it, but I for example unslotted it years ago and so have many other people I know.

Problem with it is that it's a tempo loss since it deals no damage and you have strong CC options with damage included - Cloak->Surprise Attack & of course... Incap.

You don't generally kill good players with a fear CC, or so I've found over the years.

I was thinking more for the caster class magblade to get aggro off of you. Stam you are absolutely right... no need for it.

If you nb’s don’t want it... Templars would gladly take it off your hands.

Time stop? Well before zerglings cry and it goes the way of shards.

EdgarMoose

I just tried Strider Roshins Build on my Stamblade: Nord, 5x medium Fortified Brass, 5x Bone Pirate and my two cents: 2x Troll King. All impen.
I really have to learn to play with Shadow Image and the healing Cloak - it's a completly different playstyle - but I can survive a Sorc now without bigger problems. I enjoyed some nice fights with them last night. Before I was using Shieldbreaker to have a chance.
I'm fine with one sorc now. If there are more than one... RIP ;-)

I just have one char since day one. A Nightblade. So without Sorc-experience I would like to know if you notice stamina poisons on your char. Is it a good option to counter your shields (for longer CCs)?

Minalan

EdgarMoose wrote: »

I just tried Strider Roshins Build on my Stamblade: 5x medium Fortified Brass, 5x Bone Pirate and my two cents: 2x Troll King. All impen.
I really have to learn to play with Shadow Image and the healing Cloak - it's a completly different playstyle - but I can survive a Sorc now without bigger problems. I enjoyed some nice fights with them last night. Before I was using Shieldbreaker to have a chance.
I'm fine with one sorc now. If there are more than one... RIP ;-)

I just have one char since day one. A Nightblade. So without Sorc-experience I would like to know if you notice stamina poisons on your char. Is it a good option to counter your shields (for longer CCs)?

If you fight more than one competent player of any class it should be RIP.

Emphasis on the word ‘competent’.

And bleeds are a better shield counter because the damage over time just plain sucks.

Another good shield counter is DBOS, if you’re good with cancelling that and a strong follow up we usually don’t get back up. Shields are broken, plus the dot and follow up - RIP

Mohegan_Sneak

This is not a complaint message.

CP 400+

Red guard stamina warden
2H/bow
Bone pirate 5/5
Shackle breaker 5/5
Blood spawn 2/2
36k stam
14k mag
20k Health
3.7k weapon dmg with back bar enchant proc’d
2.6k stam recovery
2.2k critical resist
30%chance Crit without weapon Crit potion that I do run.
24k resist with bloodspawn proc’d.

I usually don’t run CP campaigns due to the lag. But I decided to go to Shor because vivec was ungodly laggy. First guy I run into by sej is a solo sorc. I engage him and kinda play it stupid.. went full dps mode and never got past his shields. Got caught in a rune cage and got blown up from full health. So I Rez, message him asking for another 1v1, and told him I’m kinda new and trying to learn and that I wanted to fight again. He was cool with it. This time around I played more passively, trying to fake burst combos hoping to get him complacent. Got one good critical rush/sub/DB combo on him, wasn’t enough.. got him to about 40% he reapplied the shields, rune caged me and I died before I could even break free.

So I asked him what he thought I could do differently and that he was a tough match up for me. (I hold my own most of the time for being new) and he told me it’s just really tough right now with rune cage not being dodgeable or blockable, and that was about it. And it made sense. If it wasn’t for the rune cages, I could have probably reset a few times at least. And won? Probably not just due to him being a good player and me being new.(I don’t even know what spells look like coming from a sorc)

Then shortly after I am running back to another fight and I get overload+light attacked for 21.9k off my mount? I didn’t understand that one bit. Even though I don’t have a crap ton of resist I felt like that is a bit high one spell, I mean I have to time a combo just right to pull those numbers off. Not complaining.. just what I experienced in my short lived time in Shor

Long story short, if it matters coming from a new player I feel rune cage is the only thing over performing and maybe the overload thing but not sure exactly how it works.

Any tips or tricks would be appreciated