Is Sload's fine?

Ender1310

They like it it suits their play style. I recently crafted it and put it together with torugs and shaclebreakers. I am trash at pvp and fools were dropping like flies. Pure cancer to the masses. Remember when magsorcs were god mode? You remember able to solo content and 1 v x life? This is the same thing. The majority of the people that defend it use it, love how easy it is to use and kill. I haven't even golden mine and I'm dropping fools. You remember all the mag sorcs that used to come on the forums and say you mad brah? L2p. Same thing here.

Ender1310

Edit before the idiots torugs dirt then shackle breakers later. I'm max hem crafter

Ender1310

Ugh phone!!!

TheDoomsdayMonster

Sloads is fine

HankTwo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Wyrd Tree is exceptionally underwhelming as a counter to Sloads. It's a full armor set that hypothetically mitigates at most 40% of the damage that another set does, provided you get a proc when you need it it also happens to purge Sloads and not some of the other debuffs of you. You give up far more to run the counter than the person did to run Sloads. And a stam toon will be giving 4 whole set bonuses; there's no stamina or hybrid set that does anything similar.

I've run Wyrd Tree in the past, it's not a bad set for magDK and reliably procs every 15 seconds, if you didn't always have a dozen poisons, siphoners, etc. getting purged instead of that Curse or bleed on you it'd be really powerful. It's just not a good counter to Sloads .

Once again, balance is ascertained 1v1...

1v1, I fail to see how Wyrd is underwhelming as not only does it remove 5 negative effects, but it activates on Magicka use, which means you can still go into stealth if needed on a Nightblade if you are Sloaded...

Wyrd is complete ***. Most of the good players dont build for maximum damage. Ofc damage is a big aspect in outnumbered fights but most important is sustain. Sustain is Key. If u cant sustain u are dead before you can kill. So Most stam players go for Bone Pirate, shacklebreaker and Bloodspawn. All for sustain and utility. Taking out for example bone pirate for wyrd would completly destroy your sustain and also your damage. Taking out shackle would do the same but also reducing your magicka sustain for utility skills.

So this would only be viable for zergers.

Also transmute wyr juwelry to robust. I need summerset for this, juicy p2w.

So players doing build that fits their playstyle and help them survive 99% of all the *** zergers throw at them cause zergers are mostly not experienced in this game. Thats why good players can kill them in outnumbered fights. Now there comes zenimax giving zergers a set that will completly kill these players. It can Stack, it is Oblivion damage, it was literally no cooldown and can proc in every damage they do. They dont need to be good to handle this set. They can just so light attacks to proc it.

So with this set. Players who are Bad and dont even want to learn the game can actually kill a top tier player with 1000 + of hours in this game. Thats stupid. How is this satisfying for good players? You get punished with this set.

It would be like battlefield would give new players that never played a shooter or battlefield 200% more hp and an aimbot so they can have a Chance against good veteran players. Would u like this?

Shouldn't the 'top tier players' be able to adapt to sloads?

1000+ hours of experience and you can't deal with a single set!??

Lol...


I have adapted to Sloads and it was easy...

If players with a 1000+ hours of experience can't figure out how to deal with a single set, then that tells me that these 'top tier players' have been crutching off of overpowered mechanics for so long that they lost the ability to adapt...


Looks like a learn to play issue to me...

It doesn't even matter if players can adapt or not. Overperformance is not just instant killing with no counters. That's just the most extreme case.

Just look at how both the sharpened weapon trait and oblivion damage enchants were overperforming before the Horns of the Reach update.
Was it impossible to 'adapt and overcome' as so many players like to say? --> No
Were they overperforming despite of this? --> Yes, because the alternatives were so much weaker

It's the exact same case with sload's semblance.

Edit (just for those who don't know): Sharpened was nerfed from 5160 penetration to 2752 and the oblivion damage enchant was nerfed by 36%.

It does matter if the players can adapt because the players complaining now were pounding their chest when it was them abusing OP mechanics...


Tell me, what did these "top tier players" say when they were routinely 1vX'ing with the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking?

They said:


"Learn to play"

"Git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


Well now the shoe is on the other foot and there is now gear that sabotages their ability to 1vX with impunity, they want to scream and cry, and most of all, they don't want to take their own d@m advice and:


"learn to play"

"git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


In short it was ok for the "top tier players" to tell people to change, but its not ok for "top tier players" to change...

LoL...


The game has evolved beyond the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking...

Now these "top tier players" must swallow their own medicine and adapt or die...

But they'll probably do what they've been doing since the introduction of Sloads and cry, whine, and BEG the Devs to help them because they are completely unwilling to change to deal with Sloads...

Rianai

Slaods need to get reworked

If you can't Xvs1 someone, then the issue isn't your opponents build ...

TheDoomsdayMonster

Sloads is fine

Rianai wrote: »

If you can't Xvs1 someone, then the issue isn't your opponents build ...

You need a lesson in reading comprehension if you think I said anything about myself not being able to Xv1 someone...

Gnozo

Slaods need to get reworked

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

If you can't Xvs1 someone, then the issue isn't your opponents build ...

You need a lesson in reading comprehension if you think I said anything about myself not being able to Xv1 someone...

You know why we said "l2p" or "git gud"? Cause thats what we did. Putting a lot of work into this game, laying Dead in ground way more then other players did. Rewatched our footage to see what we did wrong and could do better next time.

Now comes sloads. New players put it on and are now able to kill all the good players who killed them before. Now new players feel proud and can finally compare to decent players. But they dont need to learn. They dont need anything. Only put on a set that will close the skillgap. This is frustrating and not rewarding for good players.

And if u would have played more then your magicka templar with 3 defensive set and would try to solo you would see how overperforming this set is and that there are no valid counters to this that every class can utilize.

Btw by solo i mean taking a ressource alone and waiting for players to arrive who you can fight. Not by running right next to the zerg. Thats zergsurfing not solo.

WuffyCerulei

To a degree, yeah. Either a longer cooldown time or shorter DoT. The damage (like 850 per second) is honestly laughable, but it can be brought to over 5000 unavoidable damage every six seconds. It's even more of a pain several people run it on you.

Edziu

Slaods need to get reworked

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Wyrd Tree is exceptionally underwhelming as a counter to Sloads. It's a full armor set that hypothetically mitigates at most 40% of the damage that another set does, provided you get a proc when you need it it also happens to purge Sloads and not some of the other debuffs of you. You give up far more to run the counter than the person did to run Sloads. And a stam toon will be giving 4 whole set bonuses; there's no stamina or hybrid set that does anything similar.

I've run Wyrd Tree in the past, it's not a bad set for magDK and reliably procs every 15 seconds, if you didn't always have a dozen poisons, siphoners, etc. getting purged instead of that Curse or bleed on you it'd be really powerful. It's just not a good counter to Sloads .

Once again, balance is ascertained 1v1...

1v1, I fail to see how Wyrd is underwhelming as not only does it remove 5 negative effects, but it activates on Magicka use, which means you can still go into stealth if needed on a Nightblade if you are Sloaded...

Wyrd is complete ***. Most of the good players dont build for maximum damage. Ofc damage is a big aspect in outnumbered fights but most important is sustain. Sustain is Key. If u cant sustain u are dead before you can kill. So Most stam players go for Bone Pirate, shacklebreaker and Bloodspawn. All for sustain and utility. Taking out for example bone pirate for wyrd would completly destroy your sustain and also your damage. Taking out shackle would do the same but also reducing your magicka sustain for utility skills.

So this would only be viable for zergers.

Also transmute wyr juwelry to robust. I need summerset for this, juicy p2w.

So players doing build that fits their playstyle and help them survive 99% of all the *** zergers throw at them cause zergers are mostly not experienced in this game. Thats why good players can kill them in outnumbered fights. Now there comes zenimax giving zergers a set that will completly kill these players. It can Stack, it is Oblivion damage, it was literally no cooldown and can proc in every damage they do. They dont need to be good to handle this set. They can just so light attacks to proc it.

So with this set. Players who are Bad and dont even want to learn the game can actually kill a top tier player with 1000 + of hours in this game. Thats stupid. How is this satisfying for good players? You get punished with this set.

It would be like battlefield would give new players that never played a shooter or battlefield 200% more hp and an aimbot so they can have a Chance against good veteran players. Would u like this?

Shouldn't the 'top tier players' be able to adapt to sloads?

1000+ hours of experience and you can't deal with a single set!??

Lol...


I have adapted to Sloads and it was easy...

If players with a 1000+ hours of experience can't figure out how to deal with a single set, then that tells me that these 'top tier players' have been crutching off of overpowered mechanics for so long that they lost the ability to adapt...


Looks like a learn to play issue to me...

It doesn't even matter if players can adapt or not. Overperformance is not just instant killing with no counters. That's just the most extreme case.

Just look at how both the sharpened weapon trait and oblivion damage enchants were overperforming before the Horns of the Reach update.
Was it impossible to 'adapt and overcome' as so many players like to say? --> No
Were they overperforming despite of this? --> Yes, because the alternatives were so much weaker

It's the exact same case with sload's semblance.

Edit (just for those who don't know): Sharpened was nerfed from 5160 penetration to 2752 and the oblivion damage enchant was nerfed by 36%.

It does matter if the players can adapt because the players complaining now were pounding their chest when it was them abusing OP mechanics...


Tell me, what did these "top tier players" say when they were routinely 1vX'ing with the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking?

They said:


"Learn to play"

"Git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


Well now the shoe is on the other foot and there is now gear that sabotages their ability to 1vX with impunity, they want to scream and cry, and most of all, they don't want to take their own d@m advice and:


"learn to play"

"git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


In short it was ok for the "top tier players" to tell people to change, but its not ok for "top tier players" to change...

LoL...


The game has evolved beyond the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking...

Now these "top tier players" must swallow their own medicine and adapt or die...

But they'll probably do what they've been doing since the introduction of Sloads and cry, whine, and BEG the Devs to help them because they are completely unwilling to change to deal with Sloads...

just big LOL

you know why those top players was saying l2p etc? because it was literally l2p, they learned it and that was why they was a TOP PLAYERS, not because set killing other people, they just learned mechanics in this game and how skills are working so they was saying l2p to newbies because they themselfves before learned how to play

and now we have sload and here is nothing to l2p, just spam anything you can, even light attacks from behind your group or rock/tree etc and you will successfuly killing pleyers without even learning how to play like those top players was doing before procs

as you nonstop posting similiar posts with defending sload you also need big l2p outside zerging as I see because no one normal exp and successful players will defend this set for everything

Koensol

Slaods need to get reworked

@TheDoomsdayMonster At this point I am not sure if you are actually defending sloads or if you are just using it as an excuse to showboat your 'theorycrafting' in an attempt to satisfy this fetish you seem to have for crappy sets such as combat physician. I mean, who in their right mind can objectively say that sloads is performing on a similar level as other sets, when it obviously outperforms these other sets to the point 95% of pvp is a *** sloads fest.

HankTwo

Slaods need to get reworked

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Wyrd Tree is exceptionally underwhelming as a counter to Sloads. It's a full armor set that hypothetically mitigates at most 40% of the damage that another set does, provided you get a proc when you need it it also happens to purge Sloads and not some of the other debuffs of you. You give up far more to run the counter than the person did to run Sloads. And a stam toon will be giving 4 whole set bonuses; there's no stamina or hybrid set that does anything similar.

I've run Wyrd Tree in the past, it's not a bad set for magDK and reliably procs every 15 seconds, if you didn't always have a dozen poisons, siphoners, etc. getting purged instead of that Curse or bleed on you it'd be really powerful. It's just not a good counter to Sloads .

Once again, balance is ascertained 1v1...

1v1, I fail to see how Wyrd is underwhelming as not only does it remove 5 negative effects, but it activates on Magicka use, which means you can still go into stealth if needed on a Nightblade if you are Sloaded...

Wyrd is complete ***. Most of the good players dont build for maximum damage. Ofc damage is a big aspect in outnumbered fights but most important is sustain. Sustain is Key. If u cant sustain u are dead before you can kill. So Most stam players go for Bone Pirate, shacklebreaker and Bloodspawn. All for sustain and utility. Taking out for example bone pirate for wyrd would completly destroy your sustain and also your damage. Taking out shackle would do the same but also reducing your magicka sustain for utility skills.

So this would only be viable for zergers.

Also transmute wyr juwelry to robust. I need summerset for this, juicy p2w.

So players doing build that fits their playstyle and help them survive 99% of all the *** zergers throw at them cause zergers are mostly not experienced in this game. Thats why good players can kill them in outnumbered fights. Now there comes zenimax giving zergers a set that will completly kill these players. It can Stack, it is Oblivion damage, it was literally no cooldown and can proc in every damage they do. They dont need to be good to handle this set. They can just so light attacks to proc it.

So with this set. Players who are Bad and dont even want to learn the game can actually kill a top tier player with 1000 + of hours in this game. Thats stupid. How is this satisfying for good players? You get punished with this set.

It would be like battlefield would give new players that never played a shooter or battlefield 200% more hp and an aimbot so they can have a Chance against good veteran players. Would u like this?

Shouldn't the 'top tier players' be able to adapt to sloads?

1000+ hours of experience and you can't deal with a single set!??

Lol...


I have adapted to Sloads and it was easy...

If players with a 1000+ hours of experience can't figure out how to deal with a single set, then that tells me that these 'top tier players' have been crutching off of overpowered mechanics for so long that they lost the ability to adapt...


Looks like a learn to play issue to me...

It doesn't even matter if players can adapt or not. Overperformance is not just instant killing with no counters. That's just the most extreme case.

Just look at how both the sharpened weapon trait and oblivion damage enchants were overperforming before the Horns of the Reach update.
Was it impossible to 'adapt and overcome' as so many players like to say? --> No
Were they overperforming despite of this? --> Yes, because the alternatives were so much weaker

It's the exact same case with sload's semblance.

Edit (just for those who don't know): Sharpened was nerfed from 5160 penetration to 2752 and the oblivion damage enchant was nerfed by 36%.

It does matter if the players can adapt because the players complaining now were pounding their chest when it was them abusing OP mechanics...


Tell me, what did these "top tier players" say when they were routinely 1vX'ing with the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking?

They said:


"Learn to play"

"Git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


Well now the shoe is on the other foot and there is now gear that sabotages their ability to 1vX with impunity, they want to scream and cry, and most of all, they don't want to take their own d@m advice and:


"learn to play"

"git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


In short it was ok for the "top tier players" to tell people to change, but its not ok for "top tier players" to change...

LoL...


The game has evolved beyond the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking...

Now these "top tier players" must swallow their own medicine and adapt or die...

But they'll probably do what they've been doing since the introduction of Sloads and cry, whine, and BEG the Devs to help them because they are completely unwilling to change to deal with Sloads...

I’m sorry, but what a ridiculous position. You basically rambled for 21 lines without making a single argument for why sload’s is balanced or not. Instead, you talked about how players in the past had overperforming 1vX builds and were rude. How is that a reason to why sload’s is fine? The way people did 1vX in the past wasn’t even possible during Dragon Bones anymore (before the release of sload’s).

So, what are you really after here? Revenge? Because that has nothing to do with balance - absolutely zero. I don’t care about what people have said or did in the past; I look at the state of the game right now. If you want to talk about balance you have to stop only caring about your own perspective.

Your whole position here is:
‘I personally have no problem with sload’s’
‘People in the past were OP and are now killable with sloads’
--> Therefore, sload’s is fine???

So, if you really believe slaod’s is balanced make some honest arguments backed by facts and gameplay mechanics. Ideally also talk about what implications that has on the game (hint: maybe other sets need buffs then?).

P.S.: How to not discuss --> ‘I am for atomic energy because I was never negatively affected by it and some people from Fukushima did war crimes during world war 2.’

TheDoomsdayMonster

Sloads is fine

Gnozo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

If you can't Xvs1 someone, then the issue isn't your opponents build ...

You need a lesson in reading comprehension if you think I said anything about myself not being able to Xv1 someone...

Btw by solo i mean taking a ressource alone and waiting for players to arrive who you can fight. Not by running right next to the zerg. Thats zergsurfing not solo.

Do you play on ps4 NA?

If not then why in the hell do you assume to know what I do?

Since you don't play on ps4 NA, then your assumptions are borne of ignorance; you don't know as much are you think you do...so chill with your assumptions.


And for the sake of argument, taking Resouces and Towns solo and defending them for as long as I can is one of my favorite things to do ingame...

TheDoomsdayMonster

Sloads is fine

Edziu wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Wyrd Tree is exceptionally underwhelming as a counter to Sloads. It's a full armor set that hypothetically mitigates at most 40% of the damage that another set does, provided you get a proc when you need it it also happens to purge Sloads and not some of the other debuffs of you. You give up far more to run the counter than the person did to run Sloads. And a stam toon will be giving 4 whole set bonuses; there's no stamina or hybrid set that does anything similar.

I've run Wyrd Tree in the past, it's not a bad set for magDK and reliably procs every 15 seconds, if you didn't always have a dozen poisons, siphoners, etc. getting purged instead of that Curse or bleed on you it'd be really powerful. It's just not a good counter to Sloads .

Once again, balance is ascertained 1v1...

1v1, I fail to see how Wyrd is underwhelming as not only does it remove 5 negative effects, but it activates on Magicka use, which means you can still go into stealth if needed on a Nightblade if you are Sloaded...

Wyrd is complete ***. Most of the good players dont build for maximum damage. Ofc damage is a big aspect in outnumbered fights but most important is sustain. Sustain is Key. If u cant sustain u are dead before you can kill. So Most stam players go for Bone Pirate, shacklebreaker and Bloodspawn. All for sustain and utility. Taking out for example bone pirate for wyrd would completly destroy your sustain and also your damage. Taking out shackle would do the same but also reducing your magicka sustain for utility skills.

So this would only be viable for zergers.

Also transmute wyr juwelry to robust. I need summerset for this, juicy p2w.

So players doing build that fits their playstyle and help them survive 99% of all the *** zergers throw at them cause zergers are mostly not experienced in this game. Thats why good players can kill them in outnumbered fights. Now there comes zenimax giving zergers a set that will completly kill these players. It can Stack, it is Oblivion damage, it was literally no cooldown and can proc in every damage they do. They dont need to be good to handle this set. They can just so light attacks to proc it.

So with this set. Players who are Bad and dont even want to learn the game can actually kill a top tier player with 1000 + of hours in this game. Thats stupid. How is this satisfying for good players? You get punished with this set.

It would be like battlefield would give new players that never played a shooter or battlefield 200% more hp and an aimbot so they can have a Chance against good veteran players. Would u like this?

Shouldn't the 'top tier players' be able to adapt to sloads?

1000+ hours of experience and you can't deal with a single set!??

Lol...


I have adapted to Sloads and it was easy...

If players with a 1000+ hours of experience can't figure out how to deal with a single set, then that tells me that these 'top tier players' have been crutching off of overpowered mechanics for so long that they lost the ability to adapt...


Looks like a learn to play issue to me...

It doesn't even matter if players can adapt or not. Overperformance is not just instant killing with no counters. That's just the most extreme case.

Just look at how both the sharpened weapon trait and oblivion damage enchants were overperforming before the Horns of the Reach update.
Was it impossible to 'adapt and overcome' as so many players like to say? --> No
Were they overperforming despite of this? --> Yes, because the alternatives were so much weaker

It's the exact same case with sload's semblance.

Edit (just for those who don't know): Sharpened was nerfed from 5160 penetration to 2752 and the oblivion damage enchant was nerfed by 36%.

It does matter if the players can adapt because the players complaining now were pounding their chest when it was them abusing OP mechanics...


Tell me, what did these "top tier players" say when they were routinely 1vX'ing with the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking?

They said:


"Learn to play"

"Git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


Well now the shoe is on the other foot and there is now gear that sabotages their ability to 1vX with impunity, they want to scream and cry, and most of all, they don't want to take their own d@m advice and:


"learn to play"

"git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


In short it was ok for the "top tier players" to tell people to change, but its not ok for "top tier players" to change...

LoL...


The game has evolved beyond the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking...

Now these "top tier players" must swallow their own medicine and adapt or die...

But they'll probably do what they've been doing since the introduction of Sloads and cry, whine, and BEG the Devs to help them because they are completely unwilling to change to deal with Sloads...

just big LOL

you know why those top players was saying l2p etc? because it was literally l2p, they learned it and that was why they was a TOP PLAYERS, not because set killing other people, they just learned mechanics in this game and how skills are working so they was saying l2p to newbies because they themselfves before learned how to play

and now we have sload and here is nothing to l2p, just spam anything you can, even light attacks from behind your group or rock/tree etc and you will successfuly killing pleyers without even learning how to play like those top players was doing before procs

as you nonstop posting similiar posts with defending sload you also need big l2p outside zerging as I see because no one normal exp and successful players will defend this set for everything

Blah, blah, blah...

Learn to articulate your points better than we can have a conversation...

TheDoomsdayMonster

Sloads is fine

HankTwo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Wyrd Tree is exceptionally underwhelming as a counter to Sloads. It's a full armor set that hypothetically mitigates at most 40% of the damage that another set does, provided you get a proc when you need it it also happens to purge Sloads and not some of the other debuffs of you. You give up far more to run the counter than the person did to run Sloads. And a stam toon will be giving 4 whole set bonuses; there's no stamina or hybrid set that does anything similar.

I've run Wyrd Tree in the past, it's not a bad set for magDK and reliably procs every 15 seconds, if you didn't always have a dozen poisons, siphoners, etc. getting purged instead of that Curse or bleed on you it'd be really powerful. It's just not a good counter to Sloads .

Once again, balance is ascertained 1v1...

1v1, I fail to see how Wyrd is underwhelming as not only does it remove 5 negative effects, but it activates on Magicka use, which means you can still go into stealth if needed on a Nightblade if you are Sloaded...

Wyrd is complete ***. Most of the good players dont build for maximum damage. Ofc damage is a big aspect in outnumbered fights but most important is sustain. Sustain is Key. If u cant sustain u are dead before you can kill. So Most stam players go for Bone Pirate, shacklebreaker and Bloodspawn. All for sustain and utility. Taking out for example bone pirate for wyrd would completly destroy your sustain and also your damage. Taking out shackle would do the same but also reducing your magicka sustain for utility skills.

So this would only be viable for zergers.

Also transmute wyr juwelry to robust. I need summerset for this, juicy p2w.

So players doing build that fits their playstyle and help them survive 99% of all the *** zergers throw at them cause zergers are mostly not experienced in this game. Thats why good players can kill them in outnumbered fights. Now there comes zenimax giving zergers a set that will completly kill these players. It can Stack, it is Oblivion damage, it was literally no cooldown and can proc in every damage they do. They dont need to be good to handle this set. They can just so light attacks to proc it.

So with this set. Players who are Bad and dont even want to learn the game can actually kill a top tier player with 1000 + of hours in this game. Thats stupid. How is this satisfying for good players? You get punished with this set.

It would be like battlefield would give new players that never played a shooter or battlefield 200% more hp and an aimbot so they can have a Chance against good veteran players. Would u like this?

Shouldn't the 'top tier players' be able to adapt to sloads?

1000+ hours of experience and you can't deal with a single set!??

Lol...


I have adapted to Sloads and it was easy...

If players with a 1000+ hours of experience can't figure out how to deal with a single set, then that tells me that these 'top tier players' have been crutching off of overpowered mechanics for so long that they lost the ability to adapt...


Looks like a learn to play issue to me...

It doesn't even matter if players can adapt or not. Overperformance is not just instant killing with no counters. That's just the most extreme case.

Just look at how both the sharpened weapon trait and oblivion damage enchants were overperforming before the Horns of the Reach update.
Was it impossible to 'adapt and overcome' as so many players like to say? --> No
Were they overperforming despite of this? --> Yes, because the alternatives were so much weaker

It's the exact same case with sload's semblance.

Edit (just for those who don't know): Sharpened was nerfed from 5160 penetration to 2752 and the oblivion damage enchant was nerfed by 36%.

It does matter if the players can adapt because the players complaining now were pounding their chest when it was them abusing OP mechanics...


Tell me, what did these "top tier players" say when they were routinely 1vX'ing with the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking?

They said:


"Learn to play"

"Git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


Well now the shoe is on the other foot and there is now gear that sabotages their ability to 1vX with impunity, they want to scream and cry, and most of all, they don't want to take their own d@m advice and:


"learn to play"

"git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


In short it was ok for the "top tier players" to tell people to change, but its not ok for "top tier players" to change...

LoL...


The game has evolved beyond the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking...

Now these "top tier players" must swallow their own medicine and adapt or die...

But they'll probably do what they've been doing since the introduction of Sloads and cry, whine, and BEG the Devs to help them because they are completely unwilling to change to deal with Sloads...

I’m sorry, but what a ridiculous position. You basically rambled for 21 lines without making a single argument for why sload’s is balanced or not. Instead, you talked about how players in the past had overperforming 1vX builds and were rude. How is that a reason to why sload’s is fine? The way people did 1vX in the past wasn’t even possible during Dragon Bones anymore (before the release of sload’s).

So, what are you really after here? Revenge? Because that has nothing to do with balance - absolutely zero. I don’t care about what people have said or did in the past; I look at the state of the game right now. If you want to talk about balance you have to stop only caring about your own perspective.

Your whole position here is:
‘I personally have no problem with sload’s’
‘People in the past were OP and are now killable with sloads’
--> Therefore, sload’s is fine???

So, if you really believe slaod’s is balanced make some honest arguments backed by facts and gameplay mechanics. Ideally also talk about what implications that has on the game (hint: maybe other sets need buffs then?).

P.S.: How to not discuss --> ‘I am for atomic energy because I was never negatively affected by it and some people from Fukushima did war crimes during world war 2.’

I could have sworn I'd made comments on why Sloads isn't OP earlier in the thread...

Learn to read issue on your part perhaps?


But to recap, here we go:

1) Balance is ascertained 1v1, not 1vX...

2) The DoT is small and can easily be out healed by Rapid Regen and other HoT's in 1v1 senario's (I have stacked HoT's and ignored the Sloads DoT before 1v1 and successfully killed the Sloads user)...

3) The DoT can be cleansed...


So if you want to debate Sloads, then there you go...

Let's debate it...

HankTwo

Slaods need to get reworked

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Wyrd Tree is exceptionally underwhelming as a counter to Sloads. It's a full armor set that hypothetically mitigates at most 40% of the damage that another set does, provided you get a proc when you need it it also happens to purge Sloads and not some of the other debuffs of you. You give up far more to run the counter than the person did to run Sloads. And a stam toon will be giving 4 whole set bonuses; there's no stamina or hybrid set that does anything similar.

I've run Wyrd Tree in the past, it's not a bad set for magDK and reliably procs every 15 seconds, if you didn't always have a dozen poisons, siphoners, etc. getting purged instead of that Curse or bleed on you it'd be really powerful. It's just not a good counter to Sloads .

Once again, balance is ascertained 1v1...

1v1, I fail to see how Wyrd is underwhelming as not only does it remove 5 negative effects, but it activates on Magicka use, which means you can still go into stealth if needed on a Nightblade if you are Sloaded...

Wyrd is complete ***. Most of the good players dont build for maximum damage. Ofc damage is a big aspect in outnumbered fights but most important is sustain. Sustain is Key. If u cant sustain u are dead before you can kill. So Most stam players go for Bone Pirate, shacklebreaker and Bloodspawn. All for sustain and utility. Taking out for example bone pirate for wyrd would completly destroy your sustain and also your damage. Taking out shackle would do the same but also reducing your magicka sustain for utility skills.

So this would only be viable for zergers.

Also transmute wyr juwelry to robust. I need summerset for this, juicy p2w.

So players doing build that fits their playstyle and help them survive 99% of all the *** zergers throw at them cause zergers are mostly not experienced in this game. Thats why good players can kill them in outnumbered fights. Now there comes zenimax giving zergers a set that will completly kill these players. It can Stack, it is Oblivion damage, it was literally no cooldown and can proc in every damage they do. They dont need to be good to handle this set. They can just so light attacks to proc it.

So with this set. Players who are Bad and dont even want to learn the game can actually kill a top tier player with 1000 + of hours in this game. Thats stupid. How is this satisfying for good players? You get punished with this set.

It would be like battlefield would give new players that never played a shooter or battlefield 200% more hp and an aimbot so they can have a Chance against good veteran players. Would u like this?

Shouldn't the 'top tier players' be able to adapt to sloads?

1000+ hours of experience and you can't deal with a single set!??

Lol...


I have adapted to Sloads and it was easy...

If players with a 1000+ hours of experience can't figure out how to deal with a single set, then that tells me that these 'top tier players' have been crutching off of overpowered mechanics for so long that they lost the ability to adapt...


Looks like a learn to play issue to me...

It doesn't even matter if players can adapt or not. Overperformance is not just instant killing with no counters. That's just the most extreme case.

Just look at how both the sharpened weapon trait and oblivion damage enchants were overperforming before the Horns of the Reach update.
Was it impossible to 'adapt and overcome' as so many players like to say? --> No
Were they overperforming despite of this? --> Yes, because the alternatives were so much weaker

It's the exact same case with sload's semblance.

Edit (just for those who don't know): Sharpened was nerfed from 5160 penetration to 2752 and the oblivion damage enchant was nerfed by 36%.

It does matter if the players can adapt because the players complaining now were pounding their chest when it was them abusing OP mechanics...


Tell me, what did these "top tier players" say when they were routinely 1vX'ing with the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking?

They said:


"Learn to play"

"Git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


Well now the shoe is on the other foot and there is now gear that sabotages their ability to 1vX with impunity, they want to scream and cry, and most of all, they don't want to take their own d@m advice and:


"learn to play"

"git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


In short it was ok for the "top tier players" to tell people to change, but its not ok for "top tier players" to change...

LoL...


The game has evolved beyond the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking...

Now these "top tier players" must swallow their own medicine and adapt or die...

But they'll probably do what they've been doing since the introduction of Sloads and cry, whine, and BEG the Devs to help them because they are completely unwilling to change to deal with Sloads...

I’m sorry, but what a ridiculous position. You basically rambled for 21 lines without making a single argument for why sload’s is balanced or not. Instead, you talked about how players in the past had overperforming 1vX builds and were rude. How is that a reason to why sload’s is fine? The way people did 1vX in the past wasn’t even possible during Dragon Bones anymore (before the release of sload’s).

So, what are you really after here? Revenge? Because that has nothing to do with balance - absolutely zero. I don’t care about what people have said or did in the past; I look at the state of the game right now. If you want to talk about balance you have to stop only caring about your own perspective.

Your whole position here is:
‘I personally have no problem with sload’s’
‘People in the past were OP and are now killable with sloads’
--> Therefore, sload’s is fine???

So, if you really believe slaod’s is balanced make some honest arguments backed by facts and gameplay mechanics. Ideally also talk about what implications that has on the game (hint: maybe other sets need buffs then?).

P.S.: How to not discuss --> ‘I am for atomic energy because I was never negatively affected by it and some people from Fukushima did war crimes during world war 2.’

I could have sworn I'd made comments on why Sloads isn't OP earlier in the thread...

Learn to read issue on your part perhaps?

You just stated your opinion that the damage of sload's is 'very manageable' and talked about wyrd tree's blessing. So where are the facts and numbers concerning sload's?

HankTwo

Slaods need to get reworked

On your recap (I haven't seen it before my reply earlier since you edited it):

1) Balance is not just ascertained in 1v1 because you state that - that's an opinion not an argument.

2) The DOT is not small. People seem to think that because of the small tooltip but you have to double that number to compare it and also take the oblivion damage type advantages into the equation. Against a target with 30% armor reduction through resistances the damage alone is nearly worth a 15k tooltip DOT over 6 seconds (ignoring it's additional advantages against blocks, shields and cloaking).

3) All DOTs can be cleansed - doens't mean sload's is balanced compared to other sets because that's not a weakness specific to sload's.

Look at page one and read my arguments. Try to counter them.

Edziu

Slaods need to get reworked

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Wyrd Tree is exceptionally underwhelming as a counter to Sloads. It's a full armor set that hypothetically mitigates at most 40% of the damage that another set does, provided you get a proc when you need it it also happens to purge Sloads and not some of the other debuffs of you. You give up far more to run the counter than the person did to run Sloads. And a stam toon will be giving 4 whole set bonuses; there's no stamina or hybrid set that does anything similar.

I've run Wyrd Tree in the past, it's not a bad set for magDK and reliably procs every 15 seconds, if you didn't always have a dozen poisons, siphoners, etc. getting purged instead of that Curse or bleed on you it'd be really powerful. It's just not a good counter to Sloads .

Once again, balance is ascertained 1v1...

1v1, I fail to see how Wyrd is underwhelming as not only does it remove 5 negative effects, but it activates on Magicka use, which means you can still go into stealth if needed on a Nightblade if you are Sloaded...

Wyrd is complete ***. Most of the good players dont build for maximum damage. Ofc damage is a big aspect in outnumbered fights but most important is sustain. Sustain is Key. If u cant sustain u are dead before you can kill. So Most stam players go for Bone Pirate, shacklebreaker and Bloodspawn. All for sustain and utility. Taking out for example bone pirate for wyrd would completly destroy your sustain and also your damage. Taking out shackle would do the same but also reducing your magicka sustain for utility skills.

So this would only be viable for zergers.

Also transmute wyr juwelry to robust. I need summerset for this, juicy p2w.

So players doing build that fits their playstyle and help them survive 99% of all the *** zergers throw at them cause zergers are mostly not experienced in this game. Thats why good players can kill them in outnumbered fights. Now there comes zenimax giving zergers a set that will completly kill these players. It can Stack, it is Oblivion damage, it was literally no cooldown and can proc in every damage they do. They dont need to be good to handle this set. They can just so light attacks to proc it.

So with this set. Players who are Bad and dont even want to learn the game can actually kill a top tier player with 1000 + of hours in this game. Thats stupid. How is this satisfying for good players? You get punished with this set.

It would be like battlefield would give new players that never played a shooter or battlefield 200% more hp and an aimbot so they can have a Chance against good veteran players. Would u like this?

Shouldn't the 'top tier players' be able to adapt to sloads?

1000+ hours of experience and you can't deal with a single set!??

Lol...


I have adapted to Sloads and it was easy...

If players with a 1000+ hours of experience can't figure out how to deal with a single set, then that tells me that these 'top tier players' have been crutching off of overpowered mechanics for so long that they lost the ability to adapt...


Looks like a learn to play issue to me...

It doesn't even matter if players can adapt or not. Overperformance is not just instant killing with no counters. That's just the most extreme case.

Just look at how both the sharpened weapon trait and oblivion damage enchants were overperforming before the Horns of the Reach update.
Was it impossible to 'adapt and overcome' as so many players like to say? --> No
Were they overperforming despite of this? --> Yes, because the alternatives were so much weaker

It's the exact same case with sload's semblance.

Edit (just for those who don't know): Sharpened was nerfed from 5160 penetration to 2752 and the oblivion damage enchant was nerfed by 36%.

It does matter if the players can adapt because the players complaining now were pounding their chest when it was them abusing OP mechanics...


Tell me, what did these "top tier players" say when they were routinely 1vX'ing with the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking?

They said:


"Learn to play"

"Git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


Well now the shoe is on the other foot and there is now gear that sabotages their ability to 1vX with impunity, they want to scream and cry, and most of all, they don't want to take their own d@m advice and:


"learn to play"

"git gud"

"use different gear"

"change your rotations"


In short it was ok for the "top tier players" to tell people to change, but its not ok for "top tier players" to change...

LoL...


The game has evolved beyond the OP combo's of Cloak/Major Expedition and Shield Stacking/Streaking...

Now these "top tier players" must swallow their own medicine and adapt or die...

But they'll probably do what they've been doing since the introduction of Sloads and cry, whine, and BEG the Devs to help them because they are completely unwilling to change to deal with Sloads...

just big LOL

you know why those top players was saying l2p etc? because it was literally l2p, they learned it and that was why they was a TOP PLAYERS, not because set killing other people, they just learned mechanics in this game and how skills are working so they was saying l2p to newbies because they themselfves before learned how to play

and now we have sload and here is nothing to l2p, just spam anything you can, even light attacks from behind your group or rock/tree etc and you will successfuly killing pleyers without even learning how to play like those top players was doing before procs

as you nonstop posting similiar posts with defending sload you also need big l2p outside zerging as I see because no one normal exp and successful players will defend this set for everything

Blah, blah, blah...

Learn to articulate your points better than we can have a conversation...

so here we have finally who is that guy

like @HankTwo great described this
I will add to you arrogance and ignorance about how this thread is goind and how is sload
you are just ignorant who have no idea about any other pvp than zerging and you want to punish skilled players by noobs wearing sload and defending them while you even dont have any key points to def sload which we see in this your post where your arguments just ended at

Blah, blah, blah...

no more to say to you, about you, now we know you good enough

and btw - l2p to you

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER

Slaods need to get reworked

thanks to the brilliant people in the forums i adapted and now i run 5 wyrd tree + efficient purge on my stamblade (cause it's really efficient) and can finally laugh at the sloadtards

Girl_Number8

Sloads is fine

Sureshawt wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »
Why is everyone defending sload’s ignoring the comparison with other 5 piece single target DOT proc sets?

- sload’s semblance: 853 oblivion damage per second for 6 seconds
- viper’s sting: 800 poison damage per second for 4 seconds
- sheer venom: 702 poison damage per second for 6 seconds
- vicecannon of venom: 459 poison damage per second for 15 seconds + heal

In general, the strength of the damage types is:
[oblivion] > [bleed] > [elemental (including poison and disease)] > [physical & magical]

So how is sload’s balanced in comparison to similar sets when it does the highest damage per second while also having the best damage type in the game?

A set doing oblivion damage should only perform better against shielded targets or enemies with high resistances/block. At the moment however, sload’s is even stronger against a target with 0 resistances, no shields and no block up - a situation where oblivion damage should perform the worst because all of its damage type strengths are irrelevant.

This^

Which why you see so many people using it. The set is grossly unbalanced in the extreme compared to any other similar sets.

Stop yelling, smh~ You mean you want them to finally {Nerf Incap}

Ocelot9x

Slaods need to get reworked

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

thanks to the brilliant people in the forums i adapted and now i run 5 wyrd tree + efficient purge on my stamblade (cause it's really efficient) and can finally laugh at the sloadtards

We're on the same boat! Being able to purge negative effects has changed completely my experience as a stam dk. Now if I have corrosive up I can tank two cp 500 until my team arrives!

TheRealSniker

Slaods need to get reworked

Here u see a zergling obviously getting outplayed, I forgot to slot purge the other days lmfao

TheDoomsdayMonster

Sloads is fine

HankTwo wrote: »

On your recap (I haven't seen it before my reply earlier since you edited it):

1) Balance is not just ascertained in 1v1 because you state that - that's an opinion not an argument.

2) The DOT is not small. People seem to think that because of the small tooltip but you have to double that number to compare it and also take the oblivion damage type advantages into the equation. Against a target with 30% armor reduction through resistances the damage alone is nearly worth a 15k tooltip DOT over 6 seconds (ignoring it's additional advantages against blocks, shields and cloaking).

3) All DOTs can be cleansed - doens't mean sload's is balanced compared to other sets because that's not a weakness specific to sload's.

Look at page one and read my arguments. Try to counter them.

The DoT is 800+ per second and it's easily out healed...

Extrapolating what it's tool tip would be if it were a different type of damage is meaningless as it only does 800+ damage a second at the end of the day and a single Rapid Regen (provided you are properly built) as well as several other HoT's will eclipse it...


And Purging/Cleansing the DoT counts as valid counterplay against Sloads...

It doesn't matter that other DoT's can be Purged/Cleared as we are talking about Sloads here...


So we have two valid ways of dealing with Sloads here:

1) Out healing it...
2) Cleansing it...


I'm sorry but if you can't deal with a 5k+ DoT over 6 seconds 1v1, then it's a l2p issue...

Edziu

Slaods need to get reworked

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

On your recap (I haven't seen it before my reply earlier since you edited it):

1) Balance is not just ascertained in 1v1 because you state that - that's an opinion not an argument.

2) The DOT is not small. People seem to think that because of the small tooltip but you have to double that number to compare it and also take the oblivion damage type advantages into the equation. Against a target with 30% armor reduction through resistances the damage alone is nearly worth a 15k tooltip DOT over 6 seconds (ignoring it's additional advantages against blocks, shields and cloaking).

3) All DOTs can be cleansed - doens't mean sload's is balanced compared to other sets because that's not a weakness specific to sload's.

Look at page one and read my arguments. Try to counter them.

The DoT is 800+ per second and it's easily out healed...

can you please tell how on stamnb without access to major mednding etc?
especially on no cp, my vigor is healing for full 905 healt per sec! while slod not only is damaginc me this 850+/sec + also is literally removing my cloak defending me from other instane amount of dots with pathetic healing

other classes have more options with healing and thats why nb have cloak - to surpress dots while having really weak healing and healing missing health under this cloak

PureEnvelope35

Slaods need to get reworked

When the game balance relies more on sets than anything else, there is truly a problem. Specifically this patch it is pretty damn clear how unbalanced sets can get, Sets like sload's pretty much play for you, where is the fun in that?

HankTwo

Slaods need to get reworked

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

On your recap (I haven't seen it before my reply earlier since you edited it):

1) Balance is not just ascertained in 1v1 because you state that - that's an opinion not an argument.

2) The DOT is not small. People seem to think that because of the small tooltip but you have to double that number to compare it and also take the oblivion damage type advantages into the equation. Against a target with 30% armor reduction through resistances the damage alone is nearly worth a 15k tooltip DOT over 6 seconds (ignoring it's additional advantages against blocks, shields and cloaking).

3) All DOTs can be cleansed - doens't mean sload's is balanced compared to other sets because that's not a weakness specific to sload's.

Look at page one and read my arguments. Try to counter them.

The DoT is 800+ per second and it's easily out healed...

Extrapolating what it's tool tip would be if it were a different type of damage is meaningless as it only does 800+ damage a second at the end of the day and a single Rapid Regen (provided you are properly built) as well as several other HoT's will eclipse it...


And Purging/Cleansing the DoT counts as valid counterplay against Sloads...

It doesn't matter that other DoT's can be Purged/Cleared as we are talking about Sloads here...


So we have two valid ways of dealing with Sloads here:

1) Out healing it...
2) Cleansing it...


I'm sorry but if you can't deal with a 5k+ DoT over 6 seconds 1v1, then it's a l2p issue...

The 'argument' that sload's is balanced because you can outheal it is just stupid. Of course I can outheal it on itself. I can also outheal a combined viper's sting + sheer venom proc. Does that mean it would be balanced to have a single set with both of these 5 piece bonuses in one? Just because there is counterpay against something doesn't mean it can't still be overperforming. Otherwise it wouldn't even matter how much damage DOTs would do as long as they won't one or two shot because you could 'just purge'.

You just keep stating your opinion and make up new bad arguments instead of countering my own. Look at the comparison to similar sets and respond to it. Player skill has nothing to do with this.

Akagami94

Slaods need to get reworked

Such Skill.. Totally out classed..

Akagami94

Slaods need to get reworked

CyrusArya wrote: »

The problem isn’t sloads, the problem is OP builds that can take on groups and entire zergs solo. Sloads just brings balance for us Xv1 gankers, we’re people too you know! I don’t even use the set, scouts honor...I promise. I just defend it in every post because it brings true balance to the game. No longer can a single player fight a 30 person zerg by themselves and that’s a GOOD thing. Finally, we’re headed in the right direction.

It’s not even that bad, you just have to think outside the box and learn to ADAPT and OVERCOME. I just slot purge on my stamblade cus thats a logical thing to do, and never engage in fights where I don’t heavily outnumber the opponent. I got lucky this patch by finding a solution early on in the patch, so I can go back to enjoying Xv1 ganking. And I will post this exact same message on every single thread about sloads, even tho I don’t use it.

Those ''OP Builds'' that we use, is all over youtube. How can it be to search ''Stamina DK PvP build''
If you think that a certain build makes u 1vX, than your horrible mistaken.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Sloads is fine

Koensol wrote: »

@TheDoomsdayMonster At this point I am not sure if you are actually defending sloads or if you are just using it as an excuse to showboat your 'theorycrafting' in an attempt to satisfy this fetish you seem to have for crappy sets such as combat physician. I mean, who in their right mind can objectively say that sloads is performing on a similar level as other sets, when it obviously outperforms these other sets to the point 95% of pvp is a *** sloads fest.

Why would I want to showboat my theorycrafting?

I am very secure with the sets I use as I know fully well what they can do and I know they perform very well...


With a proper build (one that stacks HoT's) Combat Physician rocks btw...




As pertains Sloads, I have encountered it many times and I wasn't impressed as I am able to deal with it easily...

The DoT is weak (at least as pertains it's effect on my character) and is purgable...


The only builds that struggle with it are those that depend on a single defensive mechanism (like Cloak or Shields) to survive...

Try a multi-layered defensive approach instead of depending on one layer of defense to survive and Sloads might not be so lethal to you...


For example, I:

1) stack HoT's (Rapid Regen + Ritual Retribution)...

2) have high base resists (29k spell/23k physical at all times)...

3) incorporate Major Evasion with 40-50% uptime...

4) can proc the Combat Physician damage shield on demand...

5) Elusive Mist if I need to reposition...


That's a multi-layered defensive approach; it's not dependent on any sole defensive measure to survive...

And it works very well...


You guys that depend only on Shields or Cloak are struggling because if those defenses are penetrated (and Sloads does exactly that), then there is no plan 'B' for survival other than to run away...

It's time for you guys to adapt to change...

Rianai

Slaods need to get reworked

I've always relied on multiple defenses (shields, heals, cloak, dodge, block and mobility) and Sloads renders almost all of that usless. Now the only way to play is to stack resistances and healing = play a tank. And that's boring af. Rip diversity and fun.
And you are still completely ignoring the fact, that Sloads is miles better than most other sets, which is the definition of imbalance.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Sloads is fine

Rianai wrote: »

I've always relied on multiple defenses (shields, heals, cloak, dodge, block and mobility) and Sloads renders almost all of that usless. Now the only way to play is to stack resistances and healing = play a tank. And that's boring af. Rip diversity and fun.
And you are still completely ignoring the fact, that Sloads is miles better than most other sets, which is the definition of imbalance.

If all of that fails, then incorporate a method to Cleanse into your build...