so I finally tried sloads!!!

Wing

what a flippen disappointment.

you would thing based on the amount of tears recently shed on the forums that the god himself created this set to kill mass amounts of pvp players.

even before I crafted it I was disappointed in it, looking at the numbers I was just scratching my head trying to figure out how ~5k damage over 6 seconds was so terrifying. but figured based on the amount of screaming on the forums that its just something you have to try.

so I did.

and I was disappointed.

I can only assume that a series of other conditions are met to put sloads as the "cherry on top" of the death of so many players. (fighting outnumbered, being defiled, poisoned, etc.) and maintain that sloads is just a current "death crutch" to complain about.

-tries to 1vX massive zerg
-fails miserably
-sees sloads in the death recap
-obviously it was to blame!

deconed it, went back to my usual set up, still don't get the crying, whatever.

*trolls back into pvp*

Taylor_MB

Sloads is not a problem by itself, very few things are a problem in a vacuum.

Sloads is a problem when stacked with many other sources of unmitigatable damage. The cherry on top is adding way over tuned defile into the mix.

Vaoh

Wing wrote: »

I can only assume that a series of other conditions are met to put sloads as the "cherry on top" of the death of so many players. (fighting outnumbered, being defiled, poisoned, etc.)....

I mean you said it here lol.

If you are solo it means you are constantly:
- fighting outnumbered (obviously lol. not a problem)
- defiled (very strong due to how CP stacks with it)
- poisoned (has been complained about since launch for good reason)

That’s all a given. Defiles and Poisons have worked wonders in reducing the viability of solo players especially since Morrowind nerfed sustain. It’s a very bad thing for the health of the PvP because it has diminished the competitive aspect of it.

What is a solo player supposed to do when all of their opponents are Tanks who are practically unkillable unless attacked by multiple players simultaneously? Well before the few tanks around would just get left alone since they didn’t deal much damage at all and mostly served to distract, heal, and debuff.
Yet nowadays these tanks can still put out reasonable/high damage due to all of their procs literally doing the work for them - is that okay?

These days you either find a group of your own or leave PvP. Hence the pitiful amount of PvPers compared even to the Homestead or Morrowind patches. Go ahead and support this direction of balancing but I hope you understand what it has done to this game over the years. Sloads is not a gamebreaker, but rather the newest addition to the game for reducing the viability of 1vX by eliminating the need for player skill as a true determining factor.

Anomanderake

I tryed sload and i get disappointed too. Revert to ravaging in my main. I made a blu alt some time ago to play with some friends, so i’m going to run sload on this toon with a trollbuild (viper/sload/trollking) but it isn’t really worth for serious game.

Undefwun

Did you try it in BGs?
Very different in BGs than Cyro, in terms of healing....

Do you use alot of dots in your build?
On my build any set that works of any damage (skoria for example) will proc on cool down. I haven't tried Sload's yet, but I guarantee I would set it off within a second it was available and the cool down is low.

Basically it is free pressure. I think my Vigor ticks at like 1.3-1.4k in BGs. Sload ticks for 0.85k. So if you are going full ham on me applying pressure and Sload procs, healing is suddenly reduced like 60%. So whatever else you are throwing at me will hit harder.

Now if you are fighting more than one person, Sload's debuff is not unique. Where before I could maybe LoS and regain resources, 2 debuffs is ticking for more than my vigor. There is screen shots floating around with 3 different ppl proccing it.

Throw it on a sniper that applies defile and and dots. Where before you mighthave had a chance to gap close and pressure them, now nope.

Play against a bleed build like mine with Sload's to boot and worst case scenario you suddenly have 7 or so dots (Hurricance, HA bleed, Blood Craze bleed, DW Bleed, Brawler Bleed, Double Dot Poison, Sload's) which each are small, but now add up to a big tick and I got a high single target defile uptime and I'm also now hitting you with reverse slice/Onslaught/DBoS or I simply rune cage you.
Realistically only no dmg doing tank builds or templars with big heals and cleanse won't buckle fast.

Now in a small scale 4v4 environment there is AoE's etc etc flying around... some sniper at the back of the pack..

It's alot of 'free' pressure for a crafted set that works on both stam and mag and stacks....

Anomanderake

I play almost only bg, sload isn’t op. isn’t even strong. You just see it in the recap very often because people that chase the meta. To slot sload you must unslot your damage set or your sustain set.
I play sNB.

Bergzorn

As a magsorc in no CP I struggle with sloads applied to me, but it is not as bad as I expected.

Still, it sickens me to see how many players succumbed to this cheese set, and how fast and how willingly. I have a hard time not to start tbagging.

Feanor

You just see it in the recap very often because people that chase the meta. [...]
I play sNB.

Nothing to do with the topic, but I just find these two sentences strung together quite funny...

Mihael

Feanor wrote: »

You just see it in the recap very often because people that chase the meta. [...]
I play sNB.

Nothing to do with the topic, but I just find these two sentences strung together quite funny...

Also shouldnt the fact that you see it very often because everyone’s using it and it being considered the “meta” indicate that the set is over performing at least at some level

Vapirko

Mostly its just sad to see ZOS pushing in this direction again. They finally balanced all the monster sets and now they seem intent on hitting the iceberg again. Who knows why. Shacklebreaker, julianos, these are great sets that are worth putting in new content. Introducing Sloads while defile is still OP, while Zaan and Earthgore are still OP and during a time in which we are being pushed hard towards larger group PvP and away from small and solo play, its just feels like the a kick while were down. And to come after they promised balance and all these changes to Cyrodiil and tbh its more of a mess than its been in a while. Summerset is my last purchase in this game.

Anomanderake

Feanor wrote: »

You just see it in the recap very often because people that chase the meta. [...]
I play sNB.

Nothing to do with the topic, but I just find these two sentences strung together quite funny...

But i chase the meta. That’s why i tryed sload.
Btw not chasing the meta for sNB, that was my first character and i just wanted to jump on the people and melt them down like the kevduit’s videos.

Sload it’s still not so strong...

Edit: you see sload in the death recap because all people use it. people use it because of post like that (the same reason why i tryed it). Eventually they will realize that isn’t strong and they will quit using. It’s not meta. It’s just a trend, like the strange drinks that sometimes come out from england U.U

Derra

I think you fail to understand what concept it is that makes many people despise sload.

Sload is a set that´s only good in 1v1 or Xv1 scenarios (arguably also in 2v2 and maybe 3v3 in nonCP due to everything but being scaled down). The sole purpose of the set is to make life of players that are already disadvantaged harder.
In that regard it´s 100% like poisons.

It´s one of those things where you look at cyrodiil being a big giant steaming lagging piece o - well you get the picture - and can´t help but ask yourself:
Why would any concious human being implement mechanics/itemsets that make not running with the zerg harder?
The devs say they want people to zerg less and spread out due to performance issues.
Their actions say: Well we want you to spread out but all you can expect is to die if you meet more than 1 person

Best case scenario is our devs are not very smart.
Worst case is that they actually understand what they´re doing (because then they´d be carebears and cater to carebears whoms feelings would get hurt if they loose while outnumbering their opposition).

jaws343

Derra wrote: »

I think you fail to understand what concept it is that makes many people despise sload.

Sload is a set that´s only good in 1v1 or Xv1 scenarios (arguably also in 2v2 and maybe 3v3 in nonCP due to everything but being scaled down). The sole purpose of the set is to make life of players that are already disadvantaged harder.
In that regard it´s 100% like poisons.

It´s one of those things where you look at cyrodiil being a big giant steaming lagging piece o - well you get the picture - and can´t help but ask yourself:
Why would any concious human being implement mechanics/itemsets that make not running with the zerg harder?
The devs say they want people to zerg less and spread out due to performance issues.
Their actions say: Well we want you to spread out but all you can expect is to die if you meet more than 1 person

Best case scenario is our devs are not very smart.
Worst case is that they actually understand what they´re doing.

I will say though, there is a distinction between zerging, spreading out, and playing solo. In small group play, sloads will have minimal effect. And if you are attempting to 1vx, you aren't really playing the spread out mentality correctly. Don't get me wrong, I run solo 90% of the time, but running solo isn't what they mean when they say they want players to spread out.

WillhelmBlack

Nightblades are worse than Sloads.

Hutch679

Anomanderake wrote: »

I play almost only bg, sload isn’t op. isn’t even strong. You just see it in the recap very often because people that chase the meta. To slot sload you must unslot your damage set or your sustain set.
I play sNB.

You can use sloads as a damage set. Pair with bone pirate and all weapon damage glyphs.

Derra

jaws343 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think you fail to understand what concept it is that makes many people despise sload.

Sload is a set that´s only good in 1v1 or Xv1 scenarios (arguably also in 2v2 and maybe 3v3 in nonCP due to everything but being scaled down). The sole purpose of the set is to make life of players that are already disadvantaged harder.
In that regard it´s 100% like poisons.

It´s one of those things where you look at cyrodiil being a big giant steaming lagging piece o - well you get the picture - and can´t help but ask yourself:
Why would any concious human being implement mechanics/itemsets that make not running with the zerg harder?
The devs say they want people to zerg less and spread out due to performance issues.
Their actions say: Well we want you to spread out but all you can expect is to die if you meet more than 1 person

Best case scenario is our devs are not very smart.
Worst case is that they actually understand what they´re doing.

I will say though, there is a distinction between zerging, spreading out, and playing solo. In small group play, sloads will have minimal effect. And if you are attempting to 1vx, you aren't really playing the spread out mentality correctly. Don't get me wrong, I run solo 90% of the time, but running solo isn't what they mean when they say they want players to spread out.

The problem is though - sloads will always have a decent effect if you outnumber the opposition.
We play smallgroup quite a bit - and sload is noticeable when we fight 4 v 10. It´s irrelevant for our opponents.

Furthermore it would mean that soloing is somehow a form of gameplay the devs deem as less desireable than others - which is in itself problematic in a game that proclaimed itself as wanting to cater to all types of players in pvp.
Especially as it´s the elderscrolls franchise which is traditionally very singleplayer focused.

I´m not saying i want buffs for soloplayers making it easier (like for honor?) - but making specifically soloing harder by implementing mechanics that only affect that? That´s pretty low.

Kelces

Yes, I really fail to see the point in all the complaints. It's good, but far from "face-roll"-, "free AP", or whatever -set.

Minno

Sloads is just a heal eater. It lets your bleeds, double dmg poisons, and other strong dots soak right to the bone.

And with everyone stacking DMG stats to boost both heals/DMG, it's expected people are having trouble with sloads. But it doesn't have a counter, like sets that proc off direct DMG, so builds can't use dodge roll to help avoid the DMG completely.

Then you add things like skoria and sloads just makes playing anything but speedy LOS brawler setups frustrating (aka shade HA nightblades, LA Mag DKs using shields/block, temps running purge with major protection and healing stacks, etc).

Anomanderake

Hutch679 wrote: »

You can use sloads as a damage set. Pair with bone pirate and all weapon damage glyphs.

I tryed sload as damage set but i found that my previous build (ravager/bone pirate/selene) is still better.

@Derra at the beginning of the topic someone said that sload is terrible in bg. I mainly play bg and i actually don’t think that sload is a issue. Nor a strong set to use. In cyrodill may be another thing. I don’t play cyrodill so much because i love small scale and cyrodill’s map is terrible and Promotes zerg (the only thing that sometimes make me think to come back to unofficial warhammer online server, where open world pvp is really healthy).

Kelces

Anomanderake wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

You can use sloads as a damage set. Pair with bone pirate and all weapon damage glyphs.

I tryed sload as damage set but i found that my previous build (ravager/bone pirate/selene) is still better.

@Derra at the beginning of the topic someone said that sload is terrible in bg. I mainly play bg and i actually don’t think that sload is a issue. Nor a strong set to use. In cyrodill may be another thing. I don’t play cyrodill so much because i love small scale and cyrodill’s map is terrible and Promotes zerg (the only thing that sometimes make me think to come back to unofficial warhammer online server, where open world pvp is really healthy).

Indeed, I wondered about those comments saying, it is the BiS for every build, probably one of the worst exaggerated claims ever in this game. Some people really seem to hate crafters and don't grant them anything of any reasonable value.

The worst part of it is, the crybabies seem to have won...https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/414477/why-is-sloads-still-not-nerfed/p20

Feanor

jaws343 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think you fail to understand what concept it is that makes many people despise sload.

Sload is a set that´s only good in 1v1 or Xv1 scenarios (arguably also in 2v2 and maybe 3v3 in nonCP due to everything but being scaled down). The sole purpose of the set is to make life of players that are already disadvantaged harder.
In that regard it´s 100% like poisons.

It´s one of those things where you look at cyrodiil being a big giant steaming lagging piece o - well you get the picture - and can´t help but ask yourself:
Why would any concious human being implement mechanics/itemsets that make not running with the zerg harder?
The devs say they want people to zerg less and spread out due to performance issues.
Their actions say: Well we want you to spread out but all you can expect is to die if you meet more than 1 person

Best case scenario is our devs are not very smart.
Worst case is that they actually understand what they´re doing.

I will say though, there is a distinction between zerging, spreading out, and playing solo. In small group play, sloads will have minimal effect. And if you are attempting to 1vx, you aren't really playing the spread out mentality correctly. Don't get me wrong, I run solo 90% of the time, but running solo isn't what they mean when they say they want players to spread out.

That’s one of the more puzzling things concerning the devs and their communication when it comes to PvP. Since the lighting patch in 1.6 and the start of the lag as we know it there have been numerous attempts of making server load less. Even the deer and the glowing flies got removed, which makes one believe that particle density and the calculations needed for combat on top of drawing stuff is important. Hence spreading out only can mean less player entities in a given area.

And that’s exactly what ZOS encouraged at first.

- Vicious Death
- Capturable Towns with dailies
- Modifications to siege
- Removed AoE caps
- Proximity Detonation
- Destro Ult

All of these things point at less players in a given area as a goal to achieve.

And then you get:

- General damage increases patch by patch
- High damage proc sets
- Oblivion damage
- Nerfs to Defensive mechanics
- Poisons

All of this is the direct opposite of encouraging less players in a given area. As nobody really loves to die in Cyrodiil the easiest answer is to just get a bigger group.

I just don’t understand it at all, and the only reason I can see is catering to new or bad players. Because actually running without a group would have to be encouraged given the above...

Hymzir

So I finally crafted my own set of Sload a few days a go - and... I still stand by my original assessment, it's not OP in any shape or form. It just skews things into a different direction, and people who have been accustomed for certain things to be a given, for certain tactics and playstyles to work no matter what they are facing, are now pissed that they have to adapt. That's all.

After switching to Sload all I really saw change, is that my offense went up a bit, and my defense went down a bit. I don't have quite as much health as I used to, so I gotta be bit more careful, and I get the occasional extra kill from a shield stacking sorc, that bolts away and tries to reset the fight, just as they've been doing for years now.

You know the type - a sorc that has less than 20k health, only stacks magicka, has no heals slotted, depends only on shields for defense, and bolts away the moment things start to go bad and tries to reset the fight. I've seen plenty of such sorcs, with enormous shields, dishing huge damage, bolt away when they realize they are at less than 25%. They bolt away four five times and then die to the ticking Sload while I watch them from afar.

I've also seen veteran sorcs, whose names I've come to recognize over the years, who I know to be skilled and able to adapt, deal with it just fine. Some add a bit more health to their build so they can take the Sload ticks while they bolt away, others use pots or HoTs to offset it, and others just have learned to watch out for it and pull off from a battle before it becomes an issue.

The key thing to realize is that Oblivion damage is much lower than others forms of damage, so using it limits your burst but gives you steady pressure. Some builds deal better with pressure than with burst and vice versa. If you are having difficulties with pressure, then either adapt your build, or accept that you are at a disadvantage against pressure builds and learn to avoid engaging such targets.

And if you are one of those bunny hopping shield dependent sorcs, that hover like vultures around large battles, trying to burst down stragglers and then run away while relying on shields, you just gotta learn to accept that some foes are gonna hit back, and if you want easy pickings go find another player to pester. People with Sload can hit you back, but also realize that they sacrifice their burst capability in order to have a defense against your build.

Now having said that, there is one issue with Sload that needs tweaking, even though I am myself absolutely loving it at the moment - and that is the fact that it pulls Nightblades out of cloak.

It's no secret that I do not like ganking - and when I play my NB I rarely initiate a gank myself. I just don't see anything interesting or exiting in that sort of playstyle. I do know that lot of people do, and even though I can't understand them, I accept that if that is their thing then that is their thing.

So I don't really have an issue with the playstyle itself, but do consider that it is way too strong and way too easy in ESO at the moment. The tools to counteract it are weak and the best one is limited to Nightblades themselves. So on that foot I am enjoying the reaping of Nightblades going on in Cyrodiil at the moment. While we need better counters against cloak, Sload is too strong in that role. I would change it so that Oblivion damage ticks do not break cloak, but cloak also doesn't suppress Oblivion damage ticks. That way it will still but pressure on the cloaking NB, but will also give them a chance to slip away from the fight. At least as long as they do so while they still have enough health left to deal with Sload ticks. So leaving it to the last moment will still spell doom.

And then I would try to beef up the existing anti cloak abilities, like making Magelight cover a large area or something. Cause cloaking is way too strong at the moment, except in situations involving Sload where it is way too weak.

As for any other targets, I really don't see Sload performing any better than any other option. Sure, it puts a steady pressure on a permablocking tank, but so do any other bleeds, and many perform lot better than Sload in that role. Builds with strong self heals ignore it like they do most bleeds, and running Sload means losing a five piece bonus which hurts your maximum burst significantly. Also it's one of those hybrid stat sets, so it has less than optimal stats for burst anyway.

Ultimately, I fully expect it to be nerfed an update or two from now, since so many are whining about having to adapt to it, and certain builds that haven't had any meaningful counters for years, suddenly find themselves in a situation where they are at a disadvantage against certain builds. Oh the horror, the horror. But 'till then I think it adds a decent new tangent to the supposed rock paper scissor thing that ESO PVP is supposed to be.

Lexxypwns

25% of a typical health pool in no-CP every 6 seconds. Nah, not strong...

Sure, it’s at its strongest when combined with Duroks, bleeds, etc. however, let’s not pretend it’s not good alone.

I’ll say it again, in no-CP every 6 seconds you lose 25% of your health pool and there’s very little you can do about it. That’s without any other damage factored in.

Rianai

Lexxypwns wrote: »

[...] let’s not pretend it’s good alone.

I think you wanted to write "bad" there, right? Doesn't make much sense otherwise.

Vapirko

Question: if I ignore sloads users, will they get filtered out of my BGs? I know that will make a pretty small pool, but I can always purge the ignore list once sloads is nerfed.

Lexxypwns

Rianai wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

[...] let’s not pretend it’s good alone.

I think you wanted to write "bad" there, right? Doesn't make much sense otherwise.

Yeah, fixed

Wing

Lexxypwns wrote: »

25% of a typical health pool in no-CP every 6 seconds. Nah, not strong...

Sure, it’s at its strongest when combined with Duroks, bleeds, etc. however, let’s not pretend it’s good alone.

I’ll say it again, in no-CP every 6 seconds you lose 25% of your health pool and there’s very little you can do about it. That’s without any other damage factored in.

pffft, any decent players can go through 100% of most health pools (baring any form of "tank") in less then half the time.

and saying its 25% is also silly, that means 20k hp with the 5k cyro buff meaning 15k-ish HP base means you are go for broke DPS and have probably done nothing to stay alive (aside from shield spam, roll dodge spam, cloak spam, etc.) a stiff breeze would nock these players over and I doubt sloads is the critical factor in what's putting them in the grave.

Rianai

Its 23-24k health. More health usually means you are sacrificing other stats, which results in less healing. And guess what is the only thing that can give you a chance to stay alive against sloads?

Wing

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Nightblades are worse than Sloads.

lol agreed, had to start cranking out detect pots again -_-

Hutch679 wrote: »

You can use sloads as a damage set. Pair with bone pirate and all weapon damage glyphs.

found this to be kind of terrible, you don't have enough stacked up damage potential nor do you have the survivability to slowly burn someone down, the entire set does not seem to know what it wants to do even.

Rianai wrote: »

Its 23-24k health. More health usually means you are sacrificing other stats, which results in less healing. And guess what is the only thing that can give you a chance to stay alive against sloads?

camlorn for stam or witches for magicka with almost no other investment puts you at around 25k easily without sacrificing anything. if you are going to make no effort to survive then don't be surprised and cry when you don't survive.

Rianai

Not in noCP PvP. Witchmother/Dubious puts you at 17k health without any other health boni. Passives can increase this to ~20k. For more you need to trade other stats ...

rimmidimdim

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Sloads is not a problem by itself, very few things are a problem in a vacuum.

Sloads is a problem when stacked with many other sources of unmitigatable damage. The cherry on top is adding way over tuned defile into the mix.

Adding way over tuned defile into the mix? Defile was added to the mix a long time ago. It is strong but not op. We have dealt with it a long time now. I have to say I don't finds sloads way op either, unless four opponents are all hitting me with it. But then I can say that about any set or skill or whatever.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing that sloads and defiles are strong, I just don't experience the way op ruined the game kinda thing. Cheers.