[Class Rep] Werewolf Feedback Thread

TankHealz2015

Curious on your thoughts of these possible combinations:

WW + Tormentor + Curse of Doylemish

WW + Tormentor + Undaunted Bastion

WW + Tormentor + Essence Thief

WW + Tormentor + Bani's Torment

WW + Stuhn's Favor + Armor of Truth


Would you use any of them?
How would you use them?
What type of content?

Tommy_The_Gun

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Curious on your thoughts of these possible combinations:

WW + Tormentor + Curse of Doylemish

WW + Tormentor + Undaunted Bastion

WW + Tormentor + Essence Thief

WW + Tormentor + Bani's Torment

WW + Stuhn's Favor + Armor of Truth


Would you use any of them?
How would you use them?
What type of content?

I was thinking to use WW with Tormentor + Bahraha's Curse / Ebon Armory + Lord Warden / Nightflame /Sentinel of Rkugamz

The idea is that such a group support build would work well on a hybrid tank, but we need to take into account that it may not necessary to be best to be in WW form all of the time as a PvE tank, so build would need to have functionality outside of WW too.

I am thinking mainly of base game normal / veteran and maybe even some DLC dungeons on normal / vetran too. WW PvE tank is a new "thing" so we will have to see how it will perform. I don't expect it to be superior vs regular tank build. It for sure will not be optimal, but I guess it may be decent. As for the trials ? Idk. It may be lacking a bit.

Also, I was testing it with Tremorscale that also has "When you taunt an enemy" proc condition, and was unable to proc it via Tormentor taunt. Idk if this is a bug or some sort of "proc sets can not proc other sets" thing.

Chrlynsch

https://youtu.be/NR0GvXyjaOg

SGT_Courtney

Wow, looks like Tzogvin's will be the way to go according to Alcast. Crazy but I’ll take it as long as I can wolf out again! GD motherboard died so I’ll be out of testing till my parts come in. Anyone else tried to replicate a Tzogvin's parce?

precambria

Double casted ability have a strong tendency to not work properly in PVP because of range,lag, pet body blocking, roll dodge, it would be really nice if the new leap ability did not rely on a mechanic that has shown to cause problems very consistently SEE: Flying dagger, stonefist, cutting dive, clouding swarm ECT.

I doubt this will function as poorly as flying dagger or clouding swarm but if it does somehow it really cannot be left that way, those abilities should be fixed.

Chrlynsch

SGT_Courtney wrote: »

Wow, looks like Tzogvin's will be the way to go according to Alcast. Crazy but I’ll take it as long as I can wolf out again! GD motherboard died so I’ll be out of testing till my parts come in. Anyone else tried to replicate a Tzogvin's parce?

Tzogvins is solid, but you really wont see that kind of results in reality. There are a couple things to note. Take what you see here with a grain of salt.

1. The food he is using leaves you with 11k health... that isn't going to fly, expecially if you have a near 100% uptime on berserk/ increased damage received.

2. The stamina demand on this build and rotation is massive, that is being covered by the regen food/ max stamina, and 100% success rate of Hircine's rage in a trial where you taking constant damage will mess this up pretty bad.

3. He got really lucky with his crits which he did state, but the minor force is going to increase the parse exponentially.

4. Keeping butal carnage stacks will be harder in some fights, and easier in others if there are adds.

Tzogvins set up will most likely still perform strongly if all the changes go live. But you will need to make sacrifices to your max stamina if you are going to keep the same stamina heavy rotation he is using.

Alucardo

Generally you build around Werewolf when you're planning to play as one. That means your human form is not always a very efficient setup. That would be fine if we could jump into WW more often, so my biggest two pain points are

- How long it takes to get enough ultimate for WW. Yes I'm aware there are sets like Salvation, and I've made a thread about it, but you're giving up A LOT just to get 33% off your WW cost.
- The actual duration. I think the base is around 30 seconds? This needs to be amped to at least a minute.

As I've said before, perhaps have 2 stages of Werewolf. The first stage everything is the same, but the second stage the curse is more prominent. For example, you are weak to poison and fighter's guild abilities even when in human form, but your transformation cost is significantly lower, and the duration of your WW form lasts twice as long.

Chrlynsch

Alucardo wrote: »

Generally you build around Werewolf when you're planning to play as one. That means your human form is not always a very efficient setup. That would be fine if we could jump into WW more often, so my biggest two pain points are

- How long it takes to get enough ultimate for WW. Yes I'm aware there are sets like Salvation, and I've made a thread about it, but you're giving up A LOT just to get 33% off your WW cost.
- The actual duration. I think the base is around 30 seconds? This needs to be amped to at least a minute.

As I've said before, perhaps have 2 stages of Werewolf. The first stage everything is the same, but the second stage the curse is more prominent. For example, you are weak to poison and fighter's guild abilities even when in human form, but your transformation cost is significantly lower, and the duration of your WW form lasts twice as long.

I have always thought that werewolf should be able to build up ultimate while in form, as this would solve many of logistical issues with the playstyle. As long as you had a successful last hunt, your next transformation will be waiting for you.

goldbond2000

2 biggest issues:

1. Heal is still magicka based, for pvp this means you need to tailor your build for Magicka Recovery on a stam class and you can't use stamina sustain food like dubious or artaeum. This makes a form like WW that should be focused on pursuit is easily kitable because they run out of stamina very quickly.

2. Brutal pounce-see above, this should be a conditional skill as it takes away your gap closer and allows players to kite you very easily since you can't pounce again for 5 seconds until you activate carnage. This is impossible if you get kited. You should be able to pounce if target is >5m away and activate carnage if 5 m or closer.

Skoomah

Biggest issue with werewolf... vampires are cooler.

Chrlynsch

goldbond2000 wrote: »

2 biggest issues:

1. Heal is still magicka based, for pvp this means you need to tailor your build for Magicka Recovery on a stam class and you can't use stamina sustain food like dubious or artaeum. This makes a form like WW that should be focused on pursuit is easily kitable because they run out of stamina very quickly.

2. Brutal pounce-see above, this should be a conditional skill as it takes away your gap closer and allows players to kite you very easily since you can't pounce again for 5 seconds until you activate carnage. This is impossible if you get kited. You should be able to pounce if target is >5m away and activate carnage if 5 m or closer.

Make 7m to match our La's

SGT_Courtney

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Tzogvins is solid, but you really wont see that kind of results in reality. There are a couple things to note. Take what you see here with a grain of salt.

1. The food he is using leaves you with 11k health... that isn't going to fly, expecially if you have a near 100% uptime on berserk/ increased damage received.

2. The stamina demand on this build and rotation is massive, that is being covered by the regen food/ max stamina, and 100% success rate of Hircine's rage in a trial where you taking constant damage will mess this up pretty bad.

3. He got really lucky with his crits which he did state, but the minor force is going to increase the parse exponentially.

4. Keeping butal carnage stacks will be harder in some fights, and easier in others if there are adds.

Tzogvins set up will most likely still perform strongly if all the changes go live. But you will need to make sacrifices to your max stamina if you are going to keep the same stamina heavy rotation he is using.

All really good points. I’ll have to try it with Artaeum Takeaway Broth and try to time claws of life to heal just before using the main heal.

Jaraal

goldbond2000 wrote: »

2. Brutal pounce-see above, this should be a conditional skill as it takes away your gap closer and allows players to kite you very easily since you can't pounce again for 5 seconds until you activate carnage. This is impossible if you get kited. You should be able to pounce if target is >5m away and activate carnage if 5 m or closer.

Gap closer on a cooldown would be a huge nerf.

Aznox

i agree that making a dynamic leap/execute skill based on distance to target would solve two problems at the same time :

1. Awkward leap at melee range to activate execute (adjust current numbers accordingly)
2. Inability to chain multiple leaps to follow a fleeing enemy (that contradicts the aggressive playstyle devs want for werewolf)

TankHealz2015

WW + Tormentor + Bani's Torment = it works.

WW pounce procc'ed Tormentor and Bani's Torment

Both in WW form and out of WW form, I was able to easily keep my health topped off while fighting groups of mobs.

I did this in Craglorn group areas. I was solo and I did not even wear a monster helm set.
I even forgot to change up my CP point allocation.

Tommy_The_Gun

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

WW + Tormentor + Bani's Torment = it works.

WW pounce procc'ed Tormentor and Bani's Torment

Both in WW form and out of WW form, I was able to easily keep my health topped off while fighting groups of mobs.

I did this in Craglorn group areas. I was solo and I did not even wear a monster helm set.
I even forgot to change up my CP point allocation.

That is actually pretty weird.

If Tormentor can proc Bani's Torment (that proc condition is "When you taunt a nearby enemy") why does it not proc Tremorscale (that proc condition is "When you taunt an enemy") ? I know that, because I have tested Tormentor + Tremorscale and it did not proced.

Something is bugged I guess...
https://eso-sets.com/set/banis-torment
https://eso-sets.com/set/tremorscale

HeartInABox

My two cents are just about aesthetics. I know others are more knowledgeable about mechanics and stats.
You already have the model(?) template(?) of what I think is the best looking werewolf form since Van Helsing.
SPOILER AHEAD >
After playing the Prologue, balra looked amazing! Well proportionate, great looking face. Obviously the form can't be that big, but regardless of race, WW should be larger than a npc or player character. (edit) I also like the looks of Balorgh Arms Pack Photo.
I liked your suggestion of skins, - werebear, cat. etc. Maybe different colors as well

Thank you, have a great weekend all!

Anbokr

Worried about these bugs going live, so far just a visual one fixed in two pts updates lol. The Call of the Pack bug is killer in terms of QoL.

SosRuvaak

anyone else getting the joke ult bug where it takes your ult and doesnt give you werewolf??

its probably the servers being the trash they are but i couldn't ult into werewolf constantly tonight in cyrodiil.

Joxer61

Instead of making WW a tank, something ZOS had stated many times a direction they don't want, but hey...play your way and all, can we focus on making WW more acceptable in trials and such? It just boggles my mind that an utli that can do that much dps is frowned upon....makes no sense.

Jaraal

Joxer61 wrote: »

Instead of making WW a tank, something ZOS had stated many times a direction they don't want, but hey...play your way and all, can we focus on making WW more acceptable in trials and such? It just boggles my mind that an utli that can do that much dps is frowned upon....makes no sense.

It's because werewolf has their own agenda, namely: having to feed to maintain form. Trials are about following a carefully scripted routine that doesn't really allow for us to run around randomly pulling trash mobs (which can have millions of HP) to eat. And since werewolf doesn't have the ability to build his own ultimate, and we have to build specifically to maximize our damage, we are usually not built for trials when we lose form.

Sejha

Can we please get a taunt or at least the ability to keep doing our job as a tank in werewolf ult. I play werewolf for roleplay reasons and because its fun but I still want to tank for my team. There's literally no reason to not give us a taunt option.

Either we should be able to equip guild abilities (like Undaunted for taunt) or give Carnage, Bounty or Roar a taunting effect to let us do our job. I cant go into a dungeon with my pack because bosses will wipe my team if theres no taunt option.

Its unfair that weve never gotten this and now the class has been updated and its still something we can't do.

perditioner

We have a taunt now: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/528503/werewolf-tank-build-for-greymoor#latest

Sejha

perditioner wrote: »

We have a taunt now: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/528503/werewolf-tank-build-for-greymoor#latest

No? Unless Im misreading, where is that.

Jaraal

Sejha wrote: »

perditioner wrote: »

We have a taunt now: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/528503/werewolf-tank-build-for-greymoor#latest

No? Unless Im misreading, where is that.

Tormentor set now works with Pounce.

Sejha

Jaraal wrote: »

Sejha wrote: »

perditioner wrote: »

We have a taunt now: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/528503/werewolf-tank-build-for-greymoor#latest

No? Unless Im misreading, where is that.

Tormentor set now works with Pounce.

Admittedly true but a set isnt what Im asking for esp one that already is in the game.

Mr_Wolfe

Alucardo wrote: »

Generally you build around Werewolf when you're planning to play as one. That means your human form is not always a very efficient setup. That would be fine if we could jump into WW more often, so my biggest two pain points are

- How long it takes to get enough ultimate for WW. Yes I'm aware there are sets like Salvation, and I've made a thread about it, but you're giving up A LOT just to get 33% off your WW cost.
- The actual duration. I think the base is around 30 seconds? This needs to be amped to at least a minute.

As I've said before, perhaps have 2 stages of Werewolf. The first stage everything is the same, but the second stage the curse is more prominent. For example, you are weak to poison and fighter's guild abilities even when in human form, but your transformation cost is significantly lower, and the duration of your WW form lasts twice as long.

That "30 seconds" tooltip is a bit misleading.

The Call of the Pack passive increases your timer by 20% for each werewolf or direwolf in your group, including yourself. Meaning lone werewolves get 36 seconds, lone Pack Leaders get 48 seconds, and a full pack (meaning four or more non-pack leaders or a Pack Leader with at least one other werewolf) gets 54 seconds in wolf form.

Then there's the Bloodrage passive, which effectively quadruples your time as long as you manage to deal damage at least once every 5 seconds. That's 2 minutes and 14 seconds for a lone werewolf, 3 minutes and 12 seconds for a lone pack leader, or 3 minutes and 36 seconds for a full pack.

Once you factor in feeding and the Feral Pounce morph, those stop being the amount of time you can spend in wolf form, and become the amount of time you can go between fights while maintaining wolf form.

Sejha wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Sejha wrote: »

perditioner wrote: »

We have a taunt now: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/528503/werewolf-tank-build-for-greymoor#latest

No? Unless Im misreading, where is that.

Tormentor set now works with Pounce.

Admittedly true but a set isnt what Im asking for esp one that already is in the game.

Well, we certainly don't want it to be a skill that lets us taunt--otherwise we're back to the "DPS with an Ice Staff" problem. A passive might be nice, but again some people just buy all the passives without really looking at what they do, and then everyone gets to suffer for it. Werewolves already have a hard enough time getting into dungeon and trial groups without being kicked, I don't want us becoming known as "that class that always steals taunt away from the tank."

Having to equip tormentor to taunt in wolf form is a bit of a pain, but I feel like it's a good step forward. It opens up a lot of interesting options both in and out of wolf form. Overall I'm cautiously optimistic about the new werewolf updates--I just hope being somewhat competitive again doesn't get us nerfed into the ground after a couple patches like it did last time.

Chrlynsch

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Generally you build around Werewolf when you're planning to play as one. That means your human form is not always a very efficient setup. That would be fine if we could jump into WW more often, so my biggest two pain points are

- How long it takes to get enough ultimate for WW. Yes I'm aware there are sets like Salvation, and I've made a thread about it, but you're giving up A LOT just to get 33% off your WW cost.
- The actual duration. I think the base is around 30 seconds? This needs to be amped to at least a minute.

As I've said before, perhaps have 2 stages of Werewolf. The first stage everything is the same, but the second stage the curse is more prominent. For example, you are weak to poison and fighter's guild abilities even when in human form, but your transformation cost is significantly lower, and the duration of your WW form lasts twice as long.

That "30 seconds" tooltip is a bit misleading.

The Call of the Pack passive increases your timer by 20% for each werewolf or direwolf in your group, including yourself. Meaning lone werewolves get 36 seconds, lone Pack Leaders get 48 seconds, and a full pack (meaning four or more non-pack leaders or a Pack Leader with at least one other werewolf) gets 54 seconds in wolf form.

Then there's the Bloodrage passive, which effectively quadruples your time as long as you manage to deal damage at least once every 5 seconds. That's 2 minutes and 14 seconds for a lone werewolf, 3 minutes and 12 seconds for a lone pack leader, or 3 minutes and 36 seconds for a full pack.

Once you factor in feeding and the Feral Pounce morph, those stop being the amount of time you can spend in wolf form, and become the amount of time you can go between fights while maintaining wolf form.

Sejha wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Sejha wrote: »

perditioner wrote: »

We have a taunt now: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/528503/werewolf-tank-build-for-greymoor#latest

No? Unless Im misreading, where is that.

Tormentor set now works with Pounce.

Admittedly true but a set isnt what Im asking for esp one that already is in the game.

Well, we certainly don't want it to be a skill that lets us taunt--otherwise we're back to the "DPS with an Ice Staff" problem. A passive might be nice, but again some people just buy all the passives without really looking at what they do, and then everyone gets to suffer for it. Werewolves already have a hard enough time getting into dungeon and trial groups without being kicked, I don't want us becoming known as "that class that always steals taunt away from the tank."

Having to equip tormentor to taunt in wolf form is a bit of a pain, but I feel like it's a good step forward. It opens up a lot of interesting options both in and out of wolf form. Overall I'm cautiously optimistic about the new werewolf updates--I just hope being somewhat competitive again doesn't get us nerfed into the ground after a couple patches like it did last time.

@Mr_Wolfe call of the pack passive reduces the cost of remaining in form. That is important because it makes things like bloodrage and feral pounce more effective.


Solo
Transformation: 37.5 seconds
Feral Pounce: 1.25 seconds
Blood Rage: 5 seconds
Devour: 15 seconds (full corpse)

Two werewolves
Transformation: 50 seconds
Feral Pounce: 1.66 seconds
Blood Rage: 6.66 seconds
Devour: 20 seconds (full corpse)

Three werewolves(1 Pack Leader)
Transformation: 75 seconds
Feral Pounce: 2.5 seconds
Blood Rage: 10 seconds
Devour: 30 seconds (full corpse)

Four werewolves (1 Pack Leader & 1 other wolf)
Transformation: 150 seconds
Feral Pounce: 5 seconds
Blood Rage: 20 seconds
Devour: 60 seconds (full corpse)

Kilcosu

werewolf pounce still feels clunky as ever since they changed it to the version it is now (super Mario jump) a lot if times I'm still stopped from a potential pounce because of.. a pebble? a blade of grass?

a terrible side effect of high ping pvp for werewolf right now (always?) is how little light attacks will connect, maybe one in five, despite standing on time of my enemy, despite the range buff given to light attacks.

sometimes even transformation themselves bug out in these high ping environments and your stuck in the motion of transforming.

Jaraal

Kilcosu wrote: »

werewolf pounce still feels clunky as ever since they changed it to the version it is now (super Mario jump)

That's funny, because the first time I saw the cartoon jump we have now, I thought I was somehow playing a double jumping Crash Bandicoot: Elder Scrolls Edition.

So goofy!