[Class Rep] Werewolf Feedback Thread

ScardyFox

Ah I see it, I rush viewed it and didnt even notice. Still, I'd like them to even say yeah things are coming. Theres a lack of trust on my part towards them .

Tommy_The_Gun

Things I was able to screenshot from the video (sorry for the quality and small images) :





Edit:
All of those are base morphs, so there will be 1 additional effect. Also we don't know Infectious Claws and WW passives.
To whoever posted this video... THANK YOU. You have ignited a beacon of hope. A small candle, but it is getting brighter...

SGT_Courtney

We’re back baby!

Collectivezen

Well I am glad they did something. I really felt like my werewolf was more bark than bite.

AmericanSpy

More than anything, if the LA/HA changes do happen...

1. I don't want the changes to MK to happen. I like it in the form it current is (they JUST made it viable). They can just release a different helmet with the affects of the changes they are proposing. ESO is big enough for both to exist.

2. They need to rework WW HA. Its soooo clunky and is by far the most difficult ability in the game to land on a target, moving or not. It looks bad, feels bad, and IS bad.

Zardayne

notyuu wrote: »

Lets take a look at werewolf


as you can see..the bad outweigh the good by a fair amount, so what can be done to fix this?

well, the poison weakness, time limit, power limit and ult cost are just part of the gig, so we can't really address those, as for the other issues

Half the morphs are useless

• Feral pounce: it's fine, grants way to increase transformation time at a range
• Hircine's Rage: have it grant frenzy [faster light attack buff] for 5 seconds
• Ferocious roar: Replace off balance with major maim
• Howl of despair: allow the user to also get empower from the syngery
• Claws of life: increase damage by 100%

Stamina Recovery bonus requires giving up ult slot
Have werewolf gain permanent +5% stamina recovery while in mortal form, bonus increases to 15% when werewolf ult is slotted

main heal costs ~50% of max magicka
Reduce the cost of the main heal significantly but make it half burst, half hot WITHOUT reducing the total end value of the healing

DoT Heal is comically weak
See morphs list, increasing damage of claws of life by 100% would make the healing just weak instead of comically weak

mag players gets diddly squit
Make it so that in ww form all abiltites scale from the highest of your stam&wep/mag&spell

No access to weapon enchantments
Allow access to weapon enchantments but with a 50% longer cooldown on proc [i've seen what happens when enchants are just stright up allowed..it was chaos]

no access to poisons
grant access to poisons

no access to weapon passives
Give WW tweaked weapon passives while in beast form

• dagger = +5% crit damage
• axe = +2 second dot duration
• sword = WW powers cost 2.5% less
• mace = WW transformation lasts 2 seconds longer
• Great-sword = WW powers cost 5% less
• Maul = 4 second increased duration
• Battle-axe = +4 second dot duration
• Restro staff = healing also heals allies for 20% the amount
• destro staff = +1K max stamina for every 3K max magicka
• shield = heavy attacks taunt and debuff

Powers cost too much stamina
Reduce the power cost across the board by about 15%

Powers are pitifully weak
Make it so that every time the werewolf is hit in beast form they gain a stack of rage which grants them +3% damage, lasts 5 seconds, stacks 10 times [to prevent ww ganking among other nonsence]

pack leader morph is literally useless due to wolves being unviable
Make the wolves move 35% faster, deal damage and apply snare, remove the maim

Bleed on berserker morph are so weak it's funny
Make the bleed bypass resistance

werewolf models look outdated
Take the Hulking werewolf model, make a grey version, a black version and a white version, then rig it and apply as the players werewolf form appearance.

This right here is what I've been waiting for..

mag players gets diddly squit
Make it so that in ww form all abiltites scale from the highest of your stam&wep/mag&spell

I don't understand why they don't open this and vamp up so they all scale off of the highest stat. It would be nice to have some more build options.

precambria

Please please don't make another reactivating ability in this game it will not work properly because of body blocking and lag, skills that have that aside from DK whip are all reduced in effectiveness or made useless by it

DreadDaedroth

I hope the changes to sets like Molag Kena will not go through and they'd consider a food buff for active werewolf form.

KuroAme

I just want to say one thing.
A year ago, at the pts (so full opti) my werewolf did 57k damages with the hardest rotation in the game : spam LA.
Few days ago I did the same test, always on the pts, and with the same stuff (kena, blood moon, relequen) I did 37k...

Whatever the changes they can do, I HIGHTLY wish that the werewolf can reach around more or less 55k damages, like almost all the other classes.

By the way, concerning the LA nerf cause of their OPness in pvp, they just can do smth like increase their damages against mobs or decrease them against players...

Hoping my preocupation will be heard by the staff like @ZOS_GinaBruno who created this thread...
#Enjoy

Chrlynsch

KuroAme wrote: »

I just want to say one thing.
A year ago, at the pts (so full opti) my werewolf did 57k damages with the hardest rotation in the game : spam LA.
Few days ago I did the same test, always on the pts, and with the same stuff (kena, blood moon, relequen) I did 37k...

Whatever the changes they can do, I HIGHTLY wish that the werewolf can reach around more or less 55k damages, like almost all the other classes.

By the way, concerning the LA nerf cause of their OPness in pvp, they just can do smth like increase their damages against mobs or decrease them against players...

Hoping my preocupation will be heard by the staff like @ZOS_GinaBruno who created this thread...
#Enjoy

Are you talking on a 6k dummy?

I wish that ZOS would free up some of the class passives, too many are bound to slotting an ability from a skill line. It would be nice to have a little bit of the class identity on your wolf. Bring the other classes up to par with sorc.

KuroAme

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Are you talking on a 6k dummy?

Human skeleton no armor with 6 million health, my dps test were done without a healer and using essence of weapon power potion.

Chrlynsch

KuroAme wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Are you talking on a 6k dummy?

Human skeleton no armor with 6 million health, my dps test were done without a healer and using essence of weapon power potion.

I was able to hit 42k on the 6 mil using optimal set up on pts (with LA nerfs), I am very optimistic to what we might be able to achieve in greymoor with the leaked buffs to base abilities. I will do my best to report what I am able to achieve with werewolf come PTS on April 20th.

KuroAme

Just hope ww can have as many as dps than others classes (55k+ in facts)

LtAscott

Buff Pack Leader's Bone Broth to give a 50 ultimate point flat reduction
Allow non-redundant buffs on the character to persist into WW form (cap shields to 5k worth of HP, but recharge after ~3 seconds of no damage taken), buffs like fiery weapons for instance, would last the duration of the ultimate rather than their normal durations.
OR add a new unique set that causes an AoE damage aura similar to ravaging bone goliath, for the duration of WW.

Change undaunted infiltrator and Undaunted Unweaver sets to deal oblivion (unresistable) damage.
My 1500 bonus dmg/Light Attack turns into 500 vs players, and it took me literally 2 years to farm the sets.

Salvation set: with the recent changes to WW form sustain(dealing damage increases timer), this set needs to be looked at, 145 bonus weapon dmg is the same as it was in vanilla 6 years ago, perhaps make the bonus dmg (only in ww form) from this set 50% and remove the 33% reduced cost to transform, it would make the set an interesting choice for magicka-based characters.

The proposed buffs that leaked about greymoor seem rreally good, i feel like its just an itemization issue at this point.

Kilcosu

With as many different handicaps players have to deal with choosing to transform in today's meta for PVP (and it's a daunting list) one of the biggest pain points I always come across in my personal play time is the disadvantage we are given being snared and subsequent kiting.

I get it, I understand it is literally in the fighting werewolves 101 guidebook.

my frustration comes from the Pursuit passive (increase Movement speed by 30% in werewolf form) implies that we should not be outpaced in *most situations* yet I always find myself sprinting (burning stamina) and losing ground to those simply spamming Race against time. (that's annoying)

Couple that with lack of snare removal or our own snare to catch players (outside opting for hindrance poisons) and all of the sudden you are left with something that does not feel threatening at all. We should be able to at least match the speed of opponents kiting us easier than it is for them to outrun us with our baseline 30% increase to movement speed in form.

Then again Light attacks still barely function in high ping PVP so... LOL

ScardyFox

I just hope they fix the pack moph so its less [Snip] now. Its almost like having a different flavor to play time to time. Or rather it was... now its gutter trash.

[Edited for profanity bypass]

Chrlynsch

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521860/update-26-combat-preview#latest

U26 not only has Vampire updates, but Werewolf updates as well! We want to keep the “in your face” action of the Werewolf and also want to add rotation options when you’ve transformed into this ferocious form. For example, Pounce now has a follow up attack afterwards that also has an execute scaled on Bleed. We’re also making adjustments to allow buffing and debuffing to give a sense of being a pack leader. Sustain for werewolves is also something we noted needs an adjustment, so Hircine’s Bounty now has some added functionality if you’re already at full health and don’t need the heal from the ability. We believe these changes will keep the Werewolf playstyle competitive and entertaining for all players!

ccfeeling

I hope ww come back

BoxFoxx

Pain points or main points?

... in any case, here's my feedback.

1.) I think Werewolves should be the feared predator by cloak class types (vamps and nbs), as wolves are a hunters (they don't need to see them they can smell their prey)... so a strong counter debuff skill or passive against invisible enemies/players would be really cool and useful. All current in game existing skill counters against invisibility buffs are weak or resource draining.

2.) See point number 1.

Anbokr

The PTS changes look amazing, pretty excited to get in there and test. There is a molag kena buff to boot in there. I'm a little worried these are going to be too good for PVP, and then the PvE side ends up suffering as a result per usual when it comes to WW. I just want WW to be a strong contender in PvE content, and I'll be happy.

Looks like we'll be using howl a lot more, have the new pounce carnage, and the major berserk is going to be a nutty button press. In essence, a dream update -- looks to be a straight damage buff for both PvE and PvP while also spicing up our "rotation" to be more than just light attacks.

Thanks Zenimax! Feels like wolfhunter 2.0. Now let's hope we don't see the aftermath of wolfhunter with the gutting nerfs.

Tommy_The_Gun

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522289/pts-patch-notes-v6-0-0#latest

Tormentor: This set now more accurately describes what abilities it works with, and has had its proc condition expanded to work with more abilities that fall into the standard type it was designed to. Previously, it only worked on abilities that operated as charges, but now works on charges, leaps, teleports, and pulls. This set will continue to not work with blinks, such as streak.

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Tormentor+Set

WW can now have taunt with this set & ponce !
Got to test it, but it looks it will work... and Pack Leader actually now gives group utility ! WW tank builds incoming ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Wuuffyy

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522289/pts-patch-notes-v6-0-0#latest

Tormentor: This set now more accurately describes what abilities it works with, and has had its proc condition expanded to work with more abilities that fall into the standard type it was designed to. Previously, it only worked on abilities that operated as charges, but now works on charges, leaps, teleports, and pulls. This set will continue to not work with blinks, such as streak.

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Tormentor+Set

WW can now have taunt with this set & ponce !
Got to test it, but it looks it will work... and Pack Leader actually now gives group utility ! WW tank builds incoming ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Yes! Am verr happ, lol!

Nord_Raseri

With the two skills getting passive Brutality and Savagery, we'll be able to use tri stat potions(or whatever we want) instead of having to use Stam/Dmg/Crit potions. Also happy with some of the pack leader changes. And we give minor courage to a group of 12.

Aznox

oh happy day

Chrlynsch

Lots of things to play with on pts, get to work and leave good feedback. I will most likey have a video up within the next couple days with my findings for those that cant get on pts.

Tommy_The_Gun

Ok, after short test I can confirm:
WW Pounce procs Tormentor. Tested in on a target skeleton and the Tormentor appeared in my active effects.

Ishkaral

I have test some on PTS kinda a bit disappointed, the change is not quite impactful as I expected... very slightly improvement.

Latest PTS patch
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/271510723895492610/701925462515122237/20200421053827_1.jpg

Compare to my old performance testing result

Ishkaral wrote: »

I'm planning to quit if that PTS idea is actually going to roll out into live one day, it just terrible overall... even if I already pre-ordered Grey moor chapter I don't feels hesitate for it it's direct hit to werewolf LA performance anyway [yes I have tested on PTS about 7k dps loss for me, sounds not that bad but still I have spent a lot of time investing on my main trying to make him good, using him helping people through dungeons or trials and such... my enjoyment seems to almost drop to the end after more nerfs and nerfs and nerfs, 180 degree changes and such]

Disclaimer I'm not using kena so the nerf have no hit for me, I'm an orc warden using bloodmoon + relequen + velidreth. I don't find kena being useful in humanoid form.

My performance is not the best but DPS usually around 60-65K in trials depends on how the boss love to move away and such.

A boring atro dummy test on live
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372734201612599299/691780576415580250/20200324054804_1.jpg

And another boring test from PTS
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372734201612599299/691780509789061210/20200324053137_1.jpg

I was having a lot of nice time playing this game, meet new people good accomplish lots of goal I set up but still have two things that I really want are to get Beast Personality and Sable Man-Beast. Which vMoS and vMHK were designed in the higher power level era, when they nerfed stuff they didn't bring dungeon difficulty down with it [AoE nerfed make it harder to clear all the mobs for speed runs always 3 mins late for me and my group that I have tried with on vMoS, vMHK I don't even dare to try it]

I will just see how the things goes and will decide what to do afterward.

The change bring something interesting on theory and on paper but in reality its not really improve that much.

Here are the problem/things that should be able to improve

1.Due to Pounce unreliable jumping time delayed there are some dead air during dealing damage before can reuse as carnage made it not really reliable to be execute/spamable skill, maybe revert back the jump time before latest Mario *YOINK* pounce nerfed from last patch?

2. Hircine's rage a powerful buff indeed! but still too expensive for werewolf to use, really hard to make the up time like 100% and about extra stamina restore is quite too small + frequency that we can use skill is low... this can considering to be use as a short burst window instead at the peak time before bloodmoon proc. Not fully reliable but we can alternatively have another potion sets especially for werewolf form because we doesn't need weapon damage + crit potions anymore. [Maybe tri stats or stam + magicka?]

3. Still can't break 60-65k DPS ceiling curse after the secret buffed.

At least the buffed they offered can give us some improvement even it's not that much but thanks to ZoS! Hopefully they will keep improving more of werewolf playerstyle for werewolf player based.

PS. I don't think packleader is worth my testing time, can someone please test and share the result?

AmericanSpy

Ishkaral wrote: »

I have test some on PTS kinda a bit disappointed, the change is not quite impactful as I expected... very slightly improvement.

Latest PTS patch
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/271510723895492610/701925462515122237/20200421053827_1.jpg

Compare to my old performance testing result

Ishkaral wrote: »

I'm planning to quit if that PTS idea is actually going to roll out into live one day, it just terrible overall... even if I already pre-ordered Grey moor chapter I don't feels hesitate for it it's direct hit to werewolf LA performance anyway [yes I have tested on PTS about 7k dps loss for me, sounds not that bad but still I have spent a lot of time investing on my main trying to make him good, using him helping people through dungeons or trials and such... my enjoyment seems to almost drop to the end after more nerfs and nerfs and nerfs, 180 degree changes and such]

Disclaimer I'm not using kena so the nerf have no hit for me, I'm an orc warden using bloodmoon + relequen + velidreth. I don't find kena being useful in humanoid form.

My performance is not the best but DPS usually around 60-65K in trials depends on how the boss love to move away and such.

A boring atro dummy test on live
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372734201612599299/691780576415580250/20200324054804_1.jpg

And another boring test from PTS
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372734201612599299/691780509789061210/20200324053137_1.jpg

I was having a lot of nice time playing this game, meet new people good accomplish lots of goal I set up but still have two things that I really want are to get Beast Personality and Sable Man-Beast. Which vMoS and vMHK were designed in the higher power level era, when they nerfed stuff they didn't bring dungeon difficulty down with it [AoE nerfed make it harder to clear all the mobs for speed runs always 3 mins late for me and my group that I have tried with on vMoS, vMHK I don't even dare to try it]

I will just see how the things goes and will decide what to do afterward.

The change bring something interesting on theory and on paper but in reality its not really improve that much.

Here are the problem/things that should be able to improve

1.Due to Pounce unreliable jumping time delayed there are some dead air during dealing damage before can reuse as carnage made it not really reliable to be execute/spamable skill, maybe revert back the jump time before latest Mario *YOINK* pounce nerfed from last patch?

2. Hircine's rage a powerful buff indeed! but still too expensive for werewolf to use, really hard to make the up time like 100% and about extra stamina restore is quite too small + frequency that we can use skill is low... this can considering to be use as a short burst window instead at the peak time before bloodmoon proc. Not fully reliable but we can alternatively have another potion sets especially for werewolf form because we doesn't need weapon damage + crit potions anymore. [Maybe tri stats or stam + magicka?]

3. Still can't break 60-65k DPS ceiling curse after the secret buffed.

At least the buffed they offered can give us some improvement even it's not that much but thanks to ZoS! Hopefully they will keep improving more of werewolf playerstyle for werewolf player based.

PS. I don't think packleader is worth my testing time, can someone please test and share the result?

I think the key thing to take away from this is that this type of build/play style does not align with the developer's vision of Werewolf game play.

Running Blood Moon and Relequen is "strong" because werewolf's are inherently strong in this manner. However, this goes against many of the changes which appear to have culminated in this patches changes, ie. changes to bleeds. The developer's called out directly how the changes were intended to introduce a "rotation" of skills. This play directly counteracts builds such as blood moon and relequen which strive on standing still and letting your LA macro go to town.

However, we all know there is more to ESO than target dummy parses. Even dungeon monsters typically prevent parses such as yours due to various mechanics that interrupt the flow of combat. Because of this, and the changes made to WW, I think the play style is much more viable than ever before. This additionally allows for builds beyond the BM/Rel meta as the classes abilities actually allow for variance in the game play.

New gear additions such as the Torc of Tonal Constancy directly assist with WW weaknesses. Hircine's Rage can be cast more readily with the magic regen buff since HR now gives 3k when spammed at full health. This will allow a much higher proc of major berserk from the skill, just as an example.

Additionally, I've found pounce is highly spammable when using LA weaving. While not everyone can/will use this method, it is possible. With the skill allowing a 5 second window, this also allows the casting of other abilities between casts which breaks up the animations and provides for a more "ravaging" play style.

I for one am very glad the developers gave us a more engaging play style rather then allowing us to LA macro our way to top tier target dummy parses. This isn't a knock on your observations, because I fully believe the parses you have posted are accurate and your assessment is true, this is not an all out buff to werewolfs. This is just a reminder, to ALL of us, it's time to start thinking outside the LA macro builds box, like back when building hybrid had a purpose. More, now than ever, werewolf players have OPTIONS.

SGT_Courtney

https://imgur.com/gallery/Y1ANZWK

75k it is better than Im doing on live. WW is definitely heading in the right direction. The minor courage buff is not showing up for me when I’m using the pack leader. Can someone else confirm?

Chrlynsch

Werewolf Testing day one pts:

PVE

Full damage concept

1. Howl of Agony does not do increased damage when your target is facing you tested on a dummy, player and mobs. It does have increased damage on a feared target.

Howl of dispare however worked fine on a dummy, and it took the addional damage from facing me.

2. Feral pounce at rank 4 only gives 1 second to transformation not 4 as it used to, unsure if this is tooltip issue or not.

Carnage is an interesting concept however in practice it is underwelming. Having to activate pounce first and then carnage is kind of clunky. Expecially if you are right next to your target to begin with. On a dummy I saw no increase in damage weaving it into my rotation while the target was low on health. I'm assuming that using this ability skillfully should result in a dps boost, however this is not the case.

The ability should work differently when your target is in melee range vs pouncing distance. When your target is within 10m you hit it with carnage, when your target is over 10m you hit it with the gap closer (and gain time in werewolf form).

3. Hircine's Rage works well on a dummy, the one that isn't hitting you back. Major Berserk is a powerful buff and I understand why it has a difficult proc condition, however the werewolf also takes 20% additional damage while active, so why the condition? You already have a balancing factor applied to the ability, why make it frustrating and unreliable to use in combat?

I recomend both the stamina restore and Major Berserk be granted if you Hircine's rage "over" heals the werewolf.

The cost of the heal is still really high.

4. Ferocious roar seams like it was designed with the heavy/light proposed changes in mind. Couldn't find a reason to activate it in pve... heavy attacks are still clunky and the speed increase only seams to work well when rapid firing off heavies. (Need to experiment more with different pve sets to see if there is any real use for it besides the passive buff.)


Results:
My Pve setup using Kena, Rele, and Bloodmoon on a sorc orc came out to 82k dps on an iron, same as live.

47k dps on a 6mil, down 3k. (No major Fracture)

Need to fix Howl of Agony to see what we are capable of.