[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

technohic

I'm playing magplar again after playing stamplar for a while and I can say that both sides, our sustain tools are poor.

Stamina is near non existent. Only available after a fight and not at all if another templar used the corpse. Magplar we have channeled focus, but 150 barely registers and you have to either be standing in a small circle or recast every 8 seconds. Buff needs to stick or last longer outside the circle.

Restoring aura also winds up with not much help being outclassed by elemental drain due to the cost. Id recommend making it free or 1/3 of what it cost now and then I'd suggest repentance to no longer restore stamina from corpses, but become the stamina steal version of the skill and keep the heal from corpses.

Our stuns and CC are terrible. We are one of 2 out of 5 classes without unblock-able CC. We used to have luminous shards for that. I would like to see javelin not knock people back but rather stagger its target for 2-3 seconds forcing them to drop block.

Our melee spammable is unreliable to land and out DPSed by ranged destro staff spammables. If you have to be in melee, I think there should be reward for the risk of being there. Damage should be raised slightly, enough to outpace a ranged counterpart. The 2 second snare should be applied on the first hit in stead of the last.

I like the idea of having sun shield and morphs scale off health but the percentage is from days past to where it is no longer relevant. When Battle Spirit got raised to 50% off shield strength, it forced it to niche troll builds. Then when some health sets were nerfed in Morrowing (i believe) it pretty much eradicated the use of this. Before either of those things, a Templar house could have been called a thing as people did not want to be on top of the templar. That's long gone. I suggest raise the percentage, and put a cap on it to prevent troll builds

Stamplar used to carry a templar flavor in that it had the best healing with major mending while in extended ritual. That has long since passed and stamplar has become almost completely generic outside of stacking the usually stamina DPS archetype with POTL. We could use some templar flavor brought back into the class. Passives have been terible so maybe something with that?

Ultimates are underwhelming. Restoring Lights ultimates seem outdone by resto staff to me due to the channel. I understand Nova has its uses in PvE and situationally in PvP but its way too expensive IMO to drop stationary and have people just easily move out of its area. . Crescent Sweep and empowering sweep should be swapped on which scales off magicka and stamina and the radius needs increased to 10 meters to match dawn breaker range.

Vajrak

I like how most of the complaints are in regards to PvP...

Nova is good vs Zergs, Empowering Sweep good for self for a chunk of reduced damage incoming that stacks with shields.

PvP is balanced around "I R 9 million!" -- i.e. it's not balanced, so bad thing to try to balance around.

technohic wrote: »

I'm playing magplar again after playing stamplar for a while and I can say that both sides, our sustain tools are poor.

Stamina is near non existent. Only available after a fight and not at all if another templar used the corpse. Magplar we have channeled focus, but 150 barely registers and you have to either be standing in a small circle or recast every 8 seconds. Buff needs to stick or last longer outside the circle.

Restoring aura also winds up with not much help being outclassed by elemental drain due to the cost. Id recommend making it free or 1/3 of what it cost now and then I'd suggest repentance to no longer restore stamina from corpses, but become the stamina steal version of the skill and keep the heal from corpses.

Our stuns and CC are terrible. We are one of 2 out of 5 classes without unblock-able CC. We used to have luminous shards for that. I would like to see javelin not knock people back but rather stagger its target for 2-3 seconds forcing them to drop block.

Our melee spammable is unreliable to land and out DPSed by ranged destro staff spammables. If you have to be in melee, I think there should be reward for the risk of being there. Damage should be raised slightly, enough to outpace a ranged counterpart. The 2 second snare should be applied on the first hit in stead of the last.

I like the idea of having sun shield and morphs scale off health but the percentage is from days past to where it is no longer relevant. When Battle Spirit got raised to 50% off shield strength, it forced it to niche troll builds. Then when some health sets were nerfed in Morrowing (i believe) it pretty much eradicated the use of this. Before either of those things, a Templar house could have been called a thing as people did not want to be on top of the templar. That's long gone. I suggest raise the percentage, and put a cap on it to prevent troll builds

Stamplar used to carry a templar flavor in that it had the best healing with major mending while in extended ritual. That has long since passed and stamplar has become almost completely generic outside of stacking the usually stamina DPS archetype with POTL. We could use some templar flavor brought back into the class. Passives have been terible so maybe something with that?

Ultimates are underwhelming. Restoring Lights ultimates seem outdone by resto staff to me due to the channel. I understand Nova has its uses in PvE and situationally in PvP but its way too expensive IMO to drop stationary and have people just easily move out of its area. . Crescent Sweep and empowering sweep should be swapped on which scales off magicka and stamina and the radius needs increased to 10 meters to match dawn breaker range.

Stamina Templar heavy weaves quite well --- so well in fact that if you are stamina starved, maybe it's your rotation, NOT the class?

Channeled Focus gives 120/0.5s --- or equivalent of 480 mag recovery -- and the circle isn't all that small, since weapons have a decent reach, as do spells. Restoring aura gives you the 10% all along with AoE magsteal, so you can steal from multiple targets when dealing with trash mobs instead of having to recast ele-drain EVERY time; Repentance as a stamina steal could be useful.

Our stuns/cc are terrible, agreed there.

Mele spammable unreliable to land -- have you tried moving your toon AND camera at the same time? you can actually spin it around a point, and destro can't spam extra hits from burning light --- pretty fair, though it could use a slight base increase.

Sun shield and morphs DO scale off of health, 37% of your max health --- I literally just finished tanking a run able to happily spam my 14k+ shield every time it dropped.

You want to stop feeling 'generic' on Stamplar? Stop playing generic, consider that there are other options and a lot of lateral moves in the supposed meta. Nova is a bit high, but 30% maim, slow field, and DoT plus burst capability is pretty strong for that cost.

If you switch Crescent and Empowering --- you just end up punishing magplar (where you can spam empowering to be able to melee, and get extra procs off of burning light) in exchange for frontloaded damage...and its cost is incredible low for magplar AND stamplar. Increasing the range on Crescent maybe, but on Empowering? It'd become rather overpowered when properly used.

ComboBreaker88

The Nerf to blazing shield was not only unnecessary, it was literally the only build left in the game that could counter the ball groups of player mindlessly spamming AOE abilities. The ability was completely useless until a player or entity attacked them. They could be countered by simply ignoring them. Nerfing the ability to 15% of total health made the entire ability pointless, why not just remove it completely if your not going to make it useful?

agingerinohio

Stop nerfing Templars due to PvP.

technohic

Vajrak wrote: »

I like how most of the complaints are in regards to PvP...

Nova is good vs Zergs, Empowering Sweep good for self for a chunk of reduced damage incoming that stacks with shields.

PvP is balanced around "I R 9 million!" -- i.e. it's not balanced, so bad thing to try to balance around.

technohic wrote: »

I'm playing magplar again after playing stamplar for a while and I can say that both sides, our sustain tools are poor.

Stamina is near non existent. Only available after a fight and not at all if another templar used the corpse. Magplar we have channeled focus, but 150 barely registers and you have to either be standing in a small circle or recast every 8 seconds. Buff needs to stick or last longer outside the circle.

Restoring aura also winds up with not much help being outclassed by elemental drain due to the cost. Id recommend making it free or 1/3 of what it cost now and then I'd suggest repentance to no longer restore stamina from corpses, but become the stamina steal version of the skill and keep the heal from corpses.

Our stuns and CC are terrible. We are one of 2 out of 5 classes without unblock-able CC. We used to have luminous shards for that. I would like to see javelin not knock people back but rather stagger its target for 2-3 seconds forcing them to drop block.

Our melee spammable is unreliable to land and out DPSed by ranged destro staff spammables. If you have to be in melee, I think there should be reward for the risk of being there. Damage should be raised slightly, enough to outpace a ranged counterpart. The 2 second snare should be applied on the first hit in stead of the last.

I like the idea of having sun shield and morphs scale off health but the percentage is from days past to where it is no longer relevant. When Battle Spirit got raised to 50% off shield strength, it forced it to niche troll builds. Then when some health sets were nerfed in Morrowing (i believe) it pretty much eradicated the use of this. Before either of those things, a Templar house could have been called a thing as people did not want to be on top of the templar. That's long gone. I suggest raise the percentage, and put a cap on it to prevent troll builds

Stamplar used to carry a templar flavor in that it had the best healing with major mending while in extended ritual. That has long since passed and stamplar has become almost completely generic outside of stacking the usually stamina DPS archetype with POTL. We could use some templar flavor brought back into the class. Passives have been terible so maybe something with that?

Ultimates are underwhelming. Restoring Lights ultimates seem outdone by resto staff to me due to the channel. I understand Nova has its uses in PvE and situationally in PvP but its way too expensive IMO to drop stationary and have people just easily move out of its area. . Crescent Sweep and empowering sweep should be swapped on which scales off magicka and stamina and the radius needs increased to 10 meters to match dawn breaker range.

Stamina Templar heavy weaves quite well --- so well in fact that if you are stamina starved, maybe it's your rotation, NOT the class?

Channeled Focus gives 120/0.5s --- or equivalent of 480 mag recovery -- and the circle isn't all that small, since weapons have a decent reach, as do spells. Restoring aura gives you the 10% all along with AoE magsteal, so you can steal from multiple targets when dealing with trash mobs instead of having to recast ele-drain EVERY time; Repentance as a stamina steal could be useful.

Our stuns/cc are terrible, agreed there.

Mele spammable unreliable to land -- have you tried moving your toon AND camera at the same time? you can actually spin it around a point, and destro can't spam extra hits from burning light --- pretty fair, though it could use a slight base increase.

Sun shield and morphs DO scale off of health, 37% of your max health --- I literally just finished tanking a run able to happily spam my 14k+ shield every time it dropped.

You want to stop feeling 'generic' on Stamplar? Stop playing generic, consider that there are other options and a lot of lateral moves in the supposed meta. Nova is a bit high, but 30% maim, slow field, and DoT plus burst capability is pretty strong for that cost.

If you switch Crescent and Empowering --- you just end up punishing magplar (where you can spam empowering to be able to melee, and get extra procs off of burning light) in exchange for frontloaded damage...and its cost is incredible low for magplar AND stamplar. Increasing the range on Crescent maybe, but on Empowering? It'd become rather overpowered when properly used.

Every class can heavy attack weave. Thats neither here nor there as far as resource management tools. Other classes > ours

The size is small and not sure what weapon reach has to do with it? You have to move in PvP and most of PvP encounters where its going to matter. In PvE you can circle back to it but In PvP your often moving too far out and cant keep your enemy in one general area. The payout for magicka steal when spending 3k is not really worth it. Dont really care about trash mobs, Im coming from a PvP perspective.

Are you seriously asking me if I know how to aim sweeps/jabs? You must not PvP much because anyone who does knows exactly what I am talking about. A player with major expedition up or any speed at all can out pace you trying to hit them by just moving away. Theres also a bug where it just doesnt hit even when they are right in front of you.

I know Sun shield scales off of health. I was saying the percentage could go up. That 14 K you talk about becomes 7k in PvP without mitigation so it drops in 1 or 2 hits

I dont even know what your point of feeling generic on Stamplar even means. What because you can build differently, there is some sort of class identity there?

Magplar could still use crescent as a defensive and burning light procs. Could use the crescent sweep like we used to be able to before it became poor mans redundant DBOS for stamplar.

Balancing around PvP is done because thats where the classes actually face each other.

Drdeath20

Channeled Focus gives 120/0.5s --- or equivalent of 480 mag recovery -- and the circle isn't all that small, since weapons have a decent reach, as do spells. Restoring aura gives you the 10% all along with AoE magsteal, so you can steal from multiple targets when dealing with trash mobs instead of having to recast ele-drain EVERY time; Repentance as a stamina steal could be useful.

[/quote]

Restoring aura is not cost efficient. It cost over 3k magicka. Why do we need minor magicka steal to attach to multiple targets when it only counts once? Most players just use ele drain on the boss or characters that take longer to kill. If you are running with a group that needs minor magicka steal on mobs you might need to change that group. Im also not very happy about having to use up 1 of my skill spots on slotting a passive for stacking purposes. I mean nightblades get a stronger repentance passively with their 15% recovery passive and executioner passive. Sorcs and dragonknights have the best skills for instant resources while having a better or multiple better passives. Lastly restoring aura pulls aggro.

Elemental drain is free to cast, does not pull aggro, applies minor fracture and minor breach oh and did i mention its free to cast.

Even if radiant aura was free to cast it still pulls aggro and does help with penetration which is much more important than the extra 200 magicka 50 health and 80 stamina every 2 seconds.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

extra 200 magicka 50 health and 80 stamina every 2 seconds.

I agree with everything in your post, @Drdeath20 but this needs to be clarified, there is no way you get 200 mag regen out of the 10% minor buff from radiant aura, which does not stack with other sources of the minor buff by the way, like empowered wards or enchanted growths, you would get around 50-70 extra if you are a DPS maybe 70-100 if you are a healer running a little more regen.

JinMori

Vajrak wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

For one, this class needs a slight buff, it's underperforming.

Why does this class have abilities that says fire literally in their tooltip, but are magic damage? 2 examples: Radiant and burning light, changing these 2 abilities to fire damage would already improve dps mostly in pve, which is needed.

radiant destruction was overnerfed, noobies in pvp cried about this ability in and it was nerfed, without counting 2 very important facts, it locks you for 3 second in an animation, meaning much less weaves, so it SHOULD deal more damage then other executes, second there is conterplay to this ability and it costs a lot, so you will run out of magicka very fast of you los or interrupt.

Also, this is a more general problem, Why run jabs or swallow souls when i can just run elemental weapon or force pulse? because they do more? Basically the problem is, no incentive to run the class defining abilities, which in my opinion is a problem.

And finally remove the cast time from solar barrage, this skill seems strong, and it could be, but the cast time makes it not worth running, and not a dps increase overall, remove the cast.

Also, for stamina, make channeled focus also restore stamina, stamplar is in dire need of sustain.

1) Because DK does fire damage --- Radiant is LIGHT, not "Fire" --- so it not being fire is fine. Burning Light -- is a bit of a misnomer, but still wouldn't need to be fire -- and no, changing them to fire damage wouldn't necessarily improve dps, it would just give Dunmer a boost to playing as Templar; leave it as general magic damage, and change the damn vamps bane to match instead of being fire damage, as it is the one that is out of place, not the others.

2) Agreed, Radiant Beam was over-nerfed.

3) Why run jabs/sweeps over elemental/force pulse? Because the other skills don't proc Burning Light, which jabs can proc twice (it's why Master-At-Arms works on Templar)

4) Re: Solar Barrage -- agreed, the cast time just makes it too clunky to utilize

Did you read the tooltip?

For radiant its a beam of holy FIRE, and anyway, light and heat are associated, and burning light literally has burning in it, they should be fire damage, it would increase the chance to proc bsw, which is one of the best sets in game, and this in turn would increase templar dps, and it would also be buffed by engulfing flame,and templar needs a buff.

And also, the problem, is that there is no real incentive yo use the class abilities as long as they deal less damage then elemental weapons or force pulse, which is why i brought up that point.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

JinMori wrote: »

Vajrak wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

For one, this class needs a slight buff, it's underperforming.

Why does this class have abilities that says fire literally in their tooltip, but are magic damage? 2 examples: Radiant and burning light, changing these 2 abilities to fire damage would already improve dps mostly in pve, which is needed.

radiant destruction was overnerfed, noobies in pvp cried about this ability in and it was nerfed, without counting 2 very important facts, it locks you for 3 second in an animation, meaning much less weaves, so it SHOULD deal more damage then other executes, second there is conterplay to this ability and it costs a lot, so you will run out of magicka very fast of you los or interrupt.

Also, this is a more general problem, Why run jabs or swallow souls when i can just run elemental weapon or force pulse? because they do more? Basically the problem is, no incentive to run the class defining abilities, which in my opinion is a problem.

And finally remove the cast time from solar barrage, this skill seems strong, and it could be, but the cast time makes it not worth running, and not a dps increase overall, remove the cast.

Also, for stamina, make channeled focus also restore stamina, stamplar is in dire need of sustain.

1) Because DK does fire damage --- Radiant is LIGHT, not "Fire" --- so it not being fire is fine. Burning Light -- is a bit of a misnomer, but still wouldn't need to be fire -- and no, changing them to fire damage wouldn't necessarily improve dps, it would just give Dunmer a boost to playing as Templar; leave it as general magic damage, and change the damn vamps bane to match instead of being fire damage, as it is the one that is out of place, not the others.

2) Agreed, Radiant Beam was over-nerfed.

3) Why run jabs/sweeps over elemental/force pulse? Because the other skills don't proc Burning Light, which jabs can proc twice (it's why Master-At-Arms works on Templar)

4) Re: Solar Barrage -- agreed, the cast time just makes it too clunky to utilize

Did you read the tooltip?

For radiant its a beam of holy FIRE, and anyway, light and heat are associated, and burning light literally has burning in it, they should be fire damage, it would increase the chance to proc bsw, which is one of the best sets in game, and this in turn would increase templar dps, and it would also be buffed by engulfing flame,and templar needs a buff.

And also, the problem, is that there is no real incentive yo use the class abilities as long as they deal less damage then elemental weapons or force pulse, which is why i brought up that point.

The only reason I’ve started using class abilities again is that I’ve found Illambris to be shockingly effective at racking up kills while defending keeps and outposts. The triple fireball weaved in with a lightning staff attack that has a fire enchant gets it proccing like crazy. Of course, now I see what you wrote and wonder if that wouldn’t work even better.

SugaComa

Siliziumdioxid wrote: »

few things that come to my mind immediately:
First thing: templar lacks healing besides puncturing sweeps and Hotd/Bol

Example one: Maelstrom Arena (I mean competitive vma, you can beat it naked with a lightningstaff using only one bar):
The goto spammable for vma is without a doubt Forcepulse (ranged + restores magicka + debuffs from asylum + AoE)
possible sources of healing:
puncturing sweeps: which makes me have a pointless skill on my bar since i'm using forcepulse anyway.
honor the dead: another skill that is pointless for everything besides healing however you may replace harness magicka.
extended ritual: same like honor the dead however it is a hot so you don't have to use your shield because of some minor incoming damage.

Compare it to a magblade which can run vma without using a shield by just running refreshing path and siphoning strikes or a magsorc without a shield who uses crit surge and you have one of the reasons why magplars don't perform as well as those two other classes in vma.

Example two:
Light Armor pvp builds:
General problem: due to passives most LA builds have less health and resistances than most heavy armor builds.
Now templars can counter burst damage pretty good (BoL) however this skill is pretty bad against continuously incoming damage.
Let me give you an example a 28k health heavy magplar and a 23k health light magplar are duelling a magblade. This magblade can lets say deal burst damage of around 16k at some given point. So basically the light armor magplar has 7k life where he can go offensive the heavy armor one has 12k life whre he can go offensive. 7k hp is no offensive window for a templar before you really can do anything you have to turtle up again and use breath of life.
It is not that i cannot survive the magblade attacking it is more that it is near to impossible to go offensive against this magblade (except this magblade does not break free after using Total Dark) for the named light armor version.
I would love to see some healing over time been given to a meaningfull skill or passive a templar has.
(Note: i especially think here about a ranged pvp build)

Second: Ritual of Retribution is really bad
This skill does a lot however no situation comes to my mind where you need all those effects. right now it is mainly three separate things:
a worse cleanse than extented ritual (so no use in pvp)
one of the worst healing over time abilities in the game (no real value as a healing morph)
a bad Aoe Dot that barely does more damage than a single force pulse over the duration of twelve seconds
and all that comes at a base cost of 4320
If anyone knows a situation where this skill is good please let me know


Third:
please don't force templars to be melee. In both pve and pvp.

Ritual of retribution is great in PvP

Drop it, transmutation will proc from it increasing crit resistance and it procs skoria given you a burst opening.

I think if you drop healing run inside this they should synergise giving you cc immunity and minor expedition with in the retribution circle

Think of it as laying out your home and garden now you have a small player area that lets you have an advantage by staying in it as we keep getting told we have

Checkmath

We would like to hear more about the pain points instead of having a discussion in here. This is a small reminder for everyone, that we want short and precise feedbacks in here instead of long discussions. Keep in mind that we reps will read all of this and that we also would like to not have to read hours of discussions without any real content.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Checkmath wrote: »

We would like to hear more about the pain points instead of having a discussion in here. This is a small reminder for everyone, that we want short and precise feedbacks in here instead of long discussions. Keep in mind that we reps will read all of this and that we also would like to not have to read hours of discussions without any real content.

Summary for you ...

- better passives that we don’t have to slot
- something that hits harder
- salt

SugaComa

Checkmath wrote: »

We would like to hear more about the pain points instead of having a discussion in here. This is a small reminder for everyone, that we want short and precise feedbacks in here instead of long discussions. Keep in mind that we reps will read all of this and that we also would like to not have to read hours of discussions without any real content.

What not create a template post so people can copy and fill ... So it's easy for you to get what you need

Checkmath

We got the feedback form for that, where people can hand in precise feedback too. But this thread, as written by Gina, is about everyone posting his two top concerns. If you stick to that, this is very easy for everyone.

Zinaroth

Checkmath wrote: »

We got the feedback form for that, where people can hand in precise feedback too. But this thread, as written by Gina, is about everyone posting his two top concerns. If you stick to that, this is very easy for everyone.

I hope it won't be only about exposure; "this suggestion was mentioned X amount of times so it's probably a good indication of what the class needs" - because then we will likely only see changes made aimed towards Magplars as has been the case in the past.

I will edit my post later to add my top two pain points from a Stamplar point of view.

1. Templar upkeep of Major Ward and Major Resolve through true self buff like other classes

• There's major inconsistency in how easy all other classes have with keeping up their Major Ward and Major Resolve versus Templars. DRAGONKNIGHTS have a 20 second self buff, SORCERERS have a 15/20 second self buff, WARDENS have a 21 second self buff and NIGHTBLADES get it inherently if they use their main spammable every 3/6.75 seconds (depending on build), where as TEMPLARS have a rune which is placed on the ground and which needs to be recast every 8 seconds if you're moving, which in PvP you always are.
• I want Templar to have a proper Major Ward and Major Resolve self buff like all other classes have, and not an effect on the ground that only sticks for 8 seconds, and make the morph effects stick as well just like Wardens, Dragonknights and Sorcerers have strong secondary effect on theirs which stick.
• It's simply not efficient to have to keep up a buff every 8 seconds of this magnitude when all other classes only need to do it every 20ish seconds or get it for free through the use of other abilities which are worthwhile slotting/using.
• Alternatively I would just like to see the entire rune effect on the ground dissapear and just have the yellow glow on the character. This would also reduce spell effects in Cyrodiil which seems to be a crusade at the moment for ZOS.
• Wardens get 21 seconds of Major Ward, Major Resolve and Minor Protection for 4050 magicka - the Ward and Resolve buffs also extend to allies within 8 meters, so I think it would be fair if Templars got 15-20 seconds of Major Ward, Major Resolve and either Minor Protection and Minor Vitality or added magicka regeneration for let's just say 4550 magicka.
• That would mean that Templars effectively pay 500 more magicka and lose 1-6 seconds duration for the equivalent of what Warden can get, but with Minor Vitality added on top - and Wardens would still be the only class where it also extends to allies.
• I think that is a fair and balanced trade off and I am leaning more towards 20 seconds than 15 but anything in between would sit right with me.

2. The lack of passive sustain and damage coming from class passives, and class passives' uselessness for Stamplars

• Templars in general have the least sustain of all classes by a long shot and Stamplars are hit even harder.
• I want to see some passive sustain worked into the class passives - alternatively replacing one of the more useless passives like Enduring Rays, Light Weaver or Master Ritualist - all of which does very little for the Templar class and are virtually useless for Stamplars. Anyway this passive should give 10 % stamina and magicka recovery in my opinion - rewarding builds who actually build for sustain more than build that just go for pure damage. I believe this will bring Templars up to the level of NB and Sorc sustain which it should considering both those classes also boast better DPS, burst, mobility and survivability at the moment.
• Balanced Warrior passive should give spell damage and physical resistance in addition to the weapon damage and magical resistance, and the passive Illuminate should also give Minor Brutality to your group in addition to Minor Sorcery. These two changes will make sure that Magplars and Stamplars are on more equal footing and will make Templar DPS more attractive again.
• The Mending passive should increase ALL healing by 12 % in proportion to the severity of the targets wound - not just the healing from the Restoring Light tree - this is another case of passive that is virtually useless on a Stamplar at the moment. This change in addition to the Rune Focus change will also give Stamplars that needed push in defense for PvP that people have expressed they are lacking compared to other Stamina classes - without providing any major buffs.
• Lastly the Sacred Ground passive needs to be reworked in accordance with Rune Focus becoming a true self buff - meaning that when Rune is removed as a ground effect it needs to be removed from this passive as well.

3. Pain points that almost made top two

• Stamplar boast the least self healing of all stamina specs in the game despite being a class with a healing ideology; Stamsorcs have Crit Surge which awards agressiveness with survivability, Stamblades have guaranteed crit heals when using Cloak allowing them to effectively restart a fight through clever use of Shades, Stamwardens have a great healing ultimate, Leeching Vines, Green Lotus and Major Mending when using these two abilities and Dragonknights have on demand Major Mending through the use of class shield ability which also rewards stamina when used (ironically Major Mending was removed from Templars to nerf Magplar self healing which subsequently hit Stamplars really hard without warrant)
• Lack of worthwhile magicka utility for Stamplar outside of Purifying Ritual for PvP - making magicka and magicka regeneration a useless investment for Stamplars which in turn makes building for the spec one dimensional as opposed to all other stamina specs which are awarded greatly in terms of utility and survivability from investing in said stats; Stamblades can Cloak and Shades more to reset fights, Wardens can heal and buff more, DKs can cast more shields and provide group utility at the added benefit of stamina return and finally Stamsorcs can keep up Crit Surge and Streak more for survivability and mobility.
• Mediocre to useless class ultimates - don't see a reason to go in-depth here; Nova damage is pitiful for its cost and only useable in PvE due to its stationary effect, Rite of Passage has pitiful healing throughput compared to just continuing to spam for example Healing Springs and also roots you in place once again making it useless in PvP like Nova (outside of just surviving for another five seconds and then dying) and lastly the Radial Sweep ultimate really only has a use on a Templar tank when using the morph that reduces incoming damage (but then again Templar tanks are virtually non-existent because they are the only class without means to regenerate stamina while holding block on a prolonged fight without monsters to Repentance which should probably be it's own point but there it is regardless)

Checkmath wrote: »

the feedback we got so far is very diverse and i would say, that we got as much feedback about magplars as we got about stamplars. atm very serious concerns are about the lack of sustain for stamplars, meanwhile magplars have more problme swith the clunky skills, channels and dps. also a top concern are the passives, which for example are mostly unusable for stamplars. last huge pain point seems to be the defence of templars, especially rune focus was mentioned very often. also a second source of defense mechanic was wished for by many players. most feedback was centered around those points and therefore those are the things we will definitely look at next meeting.

Great to hear that and I can definitely recognize that feedback as is also evident in my own.

Vajrak

Top two issues with Templar:

Passives don't offer as many integral bonuses towards performance as other classes do --- either raising our base damage or enhancing our sustain; generally consistent between Magplar and Stamplar

Lagplar in PvP/high-ping making our primary class attack unreliable; increasing the range/width possible as a correction.

Checkmath

the feedback we got so far is very diverse and i would say, that we got as much feedback about magplars as we got about stamplars. atm very serious concerns are about the lack of sustain for stamplars, meanwhile magplars have more problme swith the clunky skills, channels and dps. also a top concern are the passives, which for example are mostly unusable for stamplars. last huge pain point seems to be the defence of templars, especially rune focus was mentioned very often. also a second source of defense mechanic was wished for by many players. most feedback was centered around those points and therefore those are the things we will definitely look at next meeting.

technohic

Right so straight to the point on my top 2 pain points:

1. Resource management tools and passives lack luster compared to other classes.

2. Jabs/sweeps which has been a staple of templar, behind in DPS and unreliable to hit moving targets

Destruent

1. Class spammables (sweeps/dark flare) are worse than weapon abilities/open world skills in terms of dps and sustain. This makes templars just some NB/sorcs with yellow dots instead of dark red/blue
2. the static nature of our class buffs (especially rune focus) doesn't fit the mobile pve (and most likely pvp) environment since morrowind.

Valkysas154

Well most ppl probably already said what i wanted as well such as solar barrage instant cast and to many minor mending on multi skills are useless. I also want to point out the lack of HOLY proc sets for templars

Nightblades get tuns of poisons and disease physical procs

Sorcs get tuns of fire/lava lightning and oblivion procs

Wardens have nature procs sets that where in the game be for wardens tho not many + they can get away with green p/d procs that still look good for them

Dragonknigh get tuns of fire/lava or physical procs

Templar ????? mostly just healer proc no dmg ones

Neoauspex

SugaComa wrote: »

What not create a template post so people can copy and fill ... So it's easy for you to get what you need

Here's a template people can use:

1.
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Copyright 2018. Tips appreciated.

Narvuntien

To be honest I didn't even read the original post.

1. No Reliable stamina return while (between) blocking
2. No CC

shaielzafine

1. The templar "house" & lack of mobility is garbage especially in PvP and in mobile PvE fights where you have to move around to do mechanics, especially when you have no reliable CC so that means you have to get out of your "templar house" to chase people down. I also shouldn't have to be a vampire to have any sort of mobility in Cyrodiil. Even if I use the new hasty prayer morph that gives me expedition, it makes no sense that I should have to leave my rune focus constantly (yes, I need it because templar has sustain issues) & ritual of retribution because I do not have a CC that keeps enemies in my "house".

2. Why do we not have major mending? Especially after the nerfs to things like Breath of Life? Other classes have access to major mending from their passives or class abilities.

Cinbri

@Joy_Division @Checkmath I would like reps asked combat team about couple issues:

1. Jabs and Red CP bugs from Dragonbones patch:
Back in time Gina said that all my info passed to combat team so they should have all info, but we didn't hear anything from them, no clarification why we got insane damage nerf of jabs on cp pvp.
So far fount only this example:

2. Templars mechanics treated inconsistently to other classes, here couple examples:
a. Nova got 1 less tick of damage coz change to Enduring Rays passive. Yet this damage nerf was left unnoticed without addressing it. Meanwhile Negate that got less duration coz passive change too was buffed to remain same duration. Will we get our damage back or it will be another ninja nerf of templars?
b. Snare from Jabs mentioned to be dodgeable in patchnotes. Why does CC from aoe, esp. magical, attack can be dodged? https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/397347/puncturing-strikes-snare-is-dodgeable#latest
Wardens cc/ current debuff for example not treated this way.
c. Solar Barrage was told in patchnotes to be dot but blockable dot, why treat it like dot and then make profitable mechanic of it(being unblockable) being removed...
d. Burning Light - unlike Implosion, that is same proc damage passive, is remain blockable.
e. Outdated concepts like house of Rune Focus or Practiced Incantation not changed, making them terribly interacting with other lines, like new psijic one, while skills of other classes over time get this problem addressed.
^^In every example of special treatment it literally addressing skills in making them worse than they should be.

WillhelmBlack

1. No good stun

2. Stamina Templar has really bad sustain.

Raz415

1. (and the reason I quit playing Templar): This class is VERY outdated and does not fulfill the class fantasy of Paladin / Priest. Skills all feel very clunky and it feels AWFUL to be forced to use Jabs since it is by far the best spammable to use as Mag DPS and Healer (AoE, priority damage to closest target, slow, good damage numbers, what's not to like? Except the sound, the sound is awful!). All skills are made very good efficiency wise by very boring mechanics (like simply healing a lot, or providing sustain) and that makes the whole class FEEL very boring as a whole. Sure you've got great numbers, but that's not all there is to it when building a good class, right? Class identity is also more than a few yellow gas effects around your character or healing targets!
2. Repentence sucks, it needs to stop consuming corpses for everyone else around you. It's not a fun mechanic at all, having to share corpses with your friends. I daresay because of the green effect, it looks more like a Necromancy skill than a Holy skill as well!

Springt-Über-Zwerge

My two pain points with the class are:

1. The absence or lackluster accommodation of essential buffs all the other classes have easy access to (Major Sorcery, Major brutality, Major Expedition, Major Mending (not all classes), Major Resolve, Major Ward)

2. Outdated and/or useless passives and skills. There is no other Class with so many passives and skills I'd never spend a skillpoint for in its current form. Although it has something going for it: Templar build changes are the cheapest.

dodgehopper_ESO

Checkmath wrote: »

the feedback we got so far is very diverse and i would say, that we got as much feedback about magplars as we got about stamplars. atm very serious concerns are about the lack of sustain for stamplars, meanwhile magplars have more problme swith the clunky skills, channels and dps. also a top concern are the passives, which for example are mostly unusable for stamplars. last huge pain point seems to be the defence of templars, especially rune focus was mentioned very often. also a second source of defense mechanic was wished for by many players. most feedback was centered around those points and therefore those are the things we will definitely look at next meeting.

I hope that consideration includes more than StamDDPlar and MagDDPlar. There are Tanks as well. Healer is fairly well included in the MagDDPlar distinction so I suppose that goes without saying. The game focuses far too much on damage dealers now as it is in many ways. Lets not keep pushing that forward unless the developers some day offer us a convenient build-swapping mechanic.

aetherial_heavenn

Magplar healer: 2 pain points
1 No mobility ---- even as PvE trials healer it is noticeable, specially in new trials. In pvp it has produced some of the most tedious playstyles in the game. Burn 'the house' idea down and bedone with it! Lots of good ideas on how above. I need to move to heal. Or I need to be able to shield effectively and/or cc if i am going to be locked in channels and also have to stand in a ground based rune i have to recast every 8 secs. I prefer improving mobilty on my light armour wearing healer.

2 Passives make no sense----they don't synergise with skill lines, deprive us of free buffs all other classes get easily for longer, cause sustain issues. Details in many posts above. And in the pre summerset feedback thread.

3 Extra stuff
Normal Content Wish list to improve non endgame playability./Quickfixes.

a Better damage ults. All templars i know use weapon/staff ults.

b More effective execute without having to build specifically for it. Radiant is dps loss even in normal PvE content for dps built templars. The nerf radiant brigade was so effective that i haven't died to it in months of pvp. In PvE because of nerfs, my built for heals templar's execute is worse than my healing mag warden's bear. Much worse. So it's useless.

c Fix jabs/sweeps lag. I just dont slot it anymore because it misses so often. (I wish the devs were forced to play normal content with oceanic ping! Let alone try to do vets trials or pvp.)

d Personal request
Remove cast time on darkflare. Because reasons.
Edited for layout and because last para went mia.

casparian

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

the feedback we got so far is very diverse and i would say, that we got as much feedback about magplars as we got about stamplars. atm very serious concerns are about the lack of sustain for stamplars, meanwhile magplars have more problme swith the clunky skills, channels and dps. also a top concern are the passives, which for example are mostly unusable for stamplars. last huge pain point seems to be the defence of templars, especially rune focus was mentioned very often. also a second source of defense mechanic was wished for by many players. most feedback was centered around those points and therefore those are the things we will definitely look at next meeting.

I hope that consideration includes more than StamDDPlar and MagDDPlar. There are Tanks as well. Healer is fairly well included in the MagDDPlar distinction so I suppose that goes without saying. The game focuses far too much on damage dealers now as it is in many ways. Lets not keep pushing that forward unless the developers some day offer us a convenient build-swapping mechanic.

@dodgehopper_ESO a major point of consensus (I think) in the various recent discussions about fixing templar has been that we need better stamina sustain and better area control abilities, as well as an update of some kind to Radiant Ward. To my mind, fixing those issues would go a long way toward addressing the major tankplar pain points. Do you think there are other issues that tankplars would like to see addressed?