Update 24 and the Dragonhold DLC Game Pack are both now available for testing on the PTS! Experience the amazing conclusion to the Season of the Dragon saga. You can read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493609/ 

[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
    ✭✭✭✭
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Im just gonna drop in every so often and advocate for Explosive Charge to be made into a stamina gap closer. Before anyone says "but you've got two weapon line gap closers," the DW gap closer is probably the worst idea in the history of ESO and the 2H gap closer, while fine for the cost, pales in comparison to something like Toppling Charge with its off balance. In fact it's so much better that a lot of Stamplars, myself included, do use Toppling Charge. I will say that Stamplars are doing better than they have been, but this is one of their main issues. We have to draw from sooo many sources to get enough damage and offensive utility to be viable. With most classes I feel like I get to use sets that I want to use because I have the tools I need in my kit. With stamplar it's the opposite. You start with nothing and have to build for almost everything. You've gotta think do I want higher weapon damage or do I want major fracture, do I want a high recovery build? Then I'm gonna sacrifice a decent magicka pool. If I want the mag pool Im gonna be toeing the line of just enough regen. Tbh Im fine with it, except that this is not the norm. Only stam sorcs have to deal with this same problem. This is why Stamplars are great in a group but aren't that high up when it comes to duels or solo play. And tbh its not like we really can output more pressure or have any more burst than say Stamden. I dont want to sound to whiney, Im actually more or less happy with where my Stamplar is now. But I do hope that when they move on to looking at the uniqueness of classes that Stamplar gets a little more wiggle room.

    Also cant agree more with @Cinbri about making some changes to jabs so that the targeting is more reliable. However, in making the comparison to flurry, jabs feels faster and more fluid despite its shortcomings. I would not want jabs to feel the way flurry does which is kind of chunky.

    toppling, despite being mag cost+mag dmg, serves this function for stam morph now that its always grants off balance allowing synergy with Truth set. Getting 300-400 WD just for hitting a gap closer that stuns, is VERY attractive that some stamplars noted as liking last patch.

    and with jabs no longer being double mitigated, jabs/sweeps is more potent as a dmg source.

    It’s usable on stam for sure. But it’s not the “stam morph.” Magplars use it. Explosive goes pretty much unused. Stamina uses it because the other options are quite weak. But you have to maintain about a 16k mag pool to use it. That’s fine but it means there’s really only one armor/food combo that does it and leaves you with enough stam recovery. So now you’re sacrificing an armor set and food choice as well as a skill that does physical damage and using a large chunk of magicka just to use toppling charge. Plus it doesn’t really serve as a gap closer, it’s more of just a CC, because you can only afford to use it once strategically. If you’ve got a sorc streaking around then maintaining melee range will see you out of mag in no time. So, I have to straight up disagree with you that it serves the purpose of a stamina morph. It’s still entirely a magicka morph that Stamplars are just making use of because, as I said before, we’re forced to draw from a ton of places to be viable.

    So dont use toppling.
    Even if they made explosive a stam morph its unlikely it would have the same secondary effect as toppling.
    I get that truth is a great set on paper, but its beacuse you have to build for off balance, is why its also kind of a trap.
    In comparison, seventh gives a decent amount of wd, with minimal investment, and easy uptime.
    Anyway for cp, id recommend NMG+ravager, its a really good combo.

    Also, i really dont like your assesmenf of stamplar.
    We have one of the best armor buffs in the game, that also gives a bunch of free regen, easy sources of major savagery, minor protection.
    Extended ritual is stronger than ever, remembrance is probably the strongest defensive grp utlimate in the game.
    Stamplars definetly dont start with nothing.
    Think of this way, we dont have fracture, but we have easy savagery. Ask a stamsorc for example how nice it would be for them to have that buff on a class skill.
    The reverted jabs camera control i aggree is awful, they made a terrible there.

  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Im just gonna drop in every so often and advocate for Explosive Charge to be made into a stamina gap closer. Before anyone says "but you've got two weapon line gap closers," the DW gap closer is probably the worst idea in the history of ESO and the 2H gap closer, while fine for the cost, pales in comparison to something like Toppling Charge with its off balance. In fact it's so much better that a lot of Stamplars, myself included, do use Toppling Charge. I will say that Stamplars are doing better than they have been, but this is one of their main issues. We have to draw from sooo many sources to get enough damage and offensive utility to be viable. With most classes I feel like I get to use sets that I want to use because I have the tools I need in my kit. With stamplar it's the opposite. You start with nothing and have to build for almost everything. You've gotta think do I want higher weapon damage or do I want major fracture, do I want a high recovery build? Then I'm gonna sacrifice a decent magicka pool. If I want the mag pool Im gonna be toeing the line of just enough regen. Tbh Im fine with it, except that this is not the norm. Only stam sorcs have to deal with this same problem. This is why Stamplars are great in a group but aren't that high up when it comes to duels or solo play. And tbh its not like we really can output more pressure or have any more burst than say Stamden. I dont want to sound to whiney, Im actually more or less happy with where my Stamplar is now. But I do hope that when they move on to looking at the uniqueness of classes that Stamplar gets a little more wiggle room.

    Also cant agree more with @Cinbri about making some changes to jabs so that the targeting is more reliable. However, in making the comparison to flurry, jabs feels faster and more fluid despite its shortcomings. I would not want jabs to feel the way flurry does which is kind of chunky.

    toppling, despite being mag cost+mag dmg, serves this function for stam morph now that its always grants off balance allowing synergy with Truth set. Getting 300-400 WD just for hitting a gap closer that stuns, is VERY attractive that some stamplars noted as liking last patch.

    and with jabs no longer being double mitigated, jabs/sweeps is more potent as a dmg source.

    It’s usable on stam for sure. But it’s not the “stam morph.” Magplars use it. Explosive goes pretty much unused. Stamina uses it because the other options are quite weak. But you have to maintain about a 16k mag pool to use it. That’s fine but it means there’s really only one armor/food combo that does it and leaves you with enough stam recovery. So now you’re sacrificing an armor set and food choice as well as a skill that does physical damage and using a large chunk of magicka just to use toppling charge. Plus it doesn’t really serve as a gap closer, it’s more of just a CC, because you can only afford to use it once strategically. If you’ve got a sorc streaking around then maintaining melee range will see you out of mag in no time. So, I have to straight up disagree with you that it serves the purpose of a stamina morph. It’s still entirely a magicka morph that Stamplars are just making use of because, as I said before, we’re forced to draw from a ton of places to be viable.

    So dont use toppling.
    Even if they made explosive a stam morph its unlikely it would have the same secondary effect as toppling.
    I get that truth is a great set on paper, but its beacuse you have to build for off balance, is why its also kind of a trap.
    In comparison, seventh gives a decent amount of wd, with minimal investment, and easy uptime.
    Anyway for cp, id recommend NMG+ravager, its a really good combo.

    Also, i really dont like your assesmenf of stamplar.
    We have one of the best armor buffs in the game, that also gives a bunch of free regen, easy sources of major savagery, minor protection.
    Extended ritual is stronger than ever, remembrance is probably the strongest defensive grp utlimate in the game.
    Stamplars definetly dont start with nothing.
    Think of this way, we dont have fracture, but we have easy savagery. Ask a stamsorc for example how nice it would be for them to have that buff on a class skill.
    The reverted jabs camera control i aggree is awful, they made a terrible there.

    Every stamina class has a good defense. DKs have major mending, Wardens can get that and shimmering shield plus stam regen, NBs have their own method. Wardens get minor savagery major expedition and so on. So I didn’t mention that because it all comes out pretty equal. But by comparison for debuffs stam templars and also stam sorcs have almost nothing. Like I said I’m pretty happy with them but I still think some tweaks could get made. I’m not expecting a stam gap closer to also have off balance. But the 2H gap closer does pale in comparison to Toppling Charge. I don’t even use Truth so I’m not sure why that got brought up as it’s not a selling point for me. You don’t have to like my assessment but I’m also not wrong. Stamplars have taken a bit of a backseat in PvP for quite some time. And honestly you ask for a couple of small Stamplar buffs here and there and people bite your head off lol. By contrast this entire thread deals with how magplars need help.

    Also stam sorcs are so bad that they’d be happy for literally anything. That is not a good baseline comparison for other classes.
    Edited by Vapirko on August 27, 2019 6:53AM
  • Jabbs_Giggity
    Jabbs_Giggity
    ✭✭✭✭
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Im just gonna drop in every so often and advocate for Explosive Charge to be made into a stamina gap closer. Before anyone says "but you've got two weapon line gap closers," the DW gap closer is probably the worst idea in the history of ESO and the 2H gap closer, while fine for the cost, pales in comparison to something like Toppling Charge with its off balance. In fact it's so much better that a lot of Stamplars, myself included, do use Toppling Charge. I will say that Stamplars are doing better than they have been, but this is one of their main issues. We have to draw from sooo many sources to get enough damage and offensive utility to be viable. With most classes I feel like I get to use sets that I want to use because I have the tools I need in my kit. With stamplar it's the opposite. You start with nothing and have to build for almost everything. You've gotta think do I want higher weapon damage or do I want major fracture, do I want a high recovery build? Then I'm gonna sacrifice a decent magicka pool. If I want the mag pool Im gonna be toeing the line of just enough regen. Tbh Im fine with it, except that this is not the norm. Only stam sorcs have to deal with this same problem. This is why Stamplars are great in a group but aren't that high up when it comes to duels or solo play. And tbh its not like we really can output more pressure or have any more burst than say Stamden. I dont want to sound to whiney, Im actually more or less happy with where my Stamplar is now. But I do hope that when they move on to looking at the uniqueness of classes that Stamplar gets a little more wiggle room.

    Also cant agree more with @Cinbri about making some changes to jabs so that the targeting is more reliable. However, in making the comparison to flurry, jabs feels faster and more fluid despite its shortcomings. I would not want jabs to feel the way flurry does which is kind of chunky.

    toppling, despite being mag cost+mag dmg, serves this function for stam morph now that its always grants off balance allowing synergy with Truth set. Getting 300-400 WD just for hitting a gap closer that stuns, is VERY attractive that some stamplars noted as liking last patch.

    and with jabs no longer being double mitigated, jabs/sweeps is more potent as a dmg source.

    It’s usable on stam for sure. But it’s not the “stam morph.” Magplars use it. Explosive goes pretty much unused. Stamina uses it because the other options are quite weak. But you have to maintain about a 16k mag pool to use it. That’s fine but it means there’s really only one armor/food combo that does it and leaves you with enough stam recovery. So now you’re sacrificing an armor set and food choice as well as a skill that does physical damage and using a large chunk of magicka just to use toppling charge. Plus it doesn’t really serve as a gap closer, it’s more of just a CC, because you can only afford to use it once strategically. If you’ve got a sorc streaking around then maintaining melee range will see you out of mag in no time. So, I have to straight up disagree with you that it serves the purpose of a stamina morph. It’s still entirely a magicka morph that Stamplars are just making use of because, as I said before, we’re forced to draw from a ton of places to be viable.

    So dont use toppling.
    Even if they made explosive a stam morph its unlikely it would have the same secondary effect as toppling.
    I get that truth is a great set on paper, but its beacuse you have to build for off balance, is why its also kind of a trap.
    In comparison, seventh gives a decent amount of wd, with minimal investment, and easy uptime.
    Anyway for cp, id recommend NMG+ravager, its a really good combo.

    Also, i really dont like your assesmenf of stamplar.
    We have one of the best armor buffs in the game, that also gives a bunch of free regen, easy sources of major savagery, minor protection.
    Extended ritual is stronger than ever, remembrance is probably the strongest defensive grp utlimate in the game.
    Stamplars definetly dont start with nothing.
    Think of this way, we dont have fracture, but we have easy savagery. Ask a stamsorc for example how nice it would be for them to have that buff on a class skill.
    The reverted jabs camera control i aggree is awful, they made a terrible there.

    Every stamina class has a good defense. DKs have major mending, Wardens can get that and shimmering shield plus stam regen, NBs have their own method. Wardens get minor savagery major expedition and so on. So I didn’t mention that because it all comes out pretty equal. But by comparison for debuffs stam templars and also stam sorcs have almost nothing. Like I said I’m pretty happy with them but I still think some tweaks could get made. I’m not expecting a stam gap closer to also have off balance. But the 2H gap closer does pale in comparison to Toppling Charge. I don’t even use Truth so I’m not sure why that got brought up as it’s not a selling point for me. You don’t have to like my assessment but I’m also not wrong. Stamplars have taken a bit of a backseat in PvP for quite some time. And honestly you ask for a couple of small Stamplar buffs here and there and people bite your head off lol. By contrast this entire thread deals with how magplars need help.

    Also stam sorcs are so bad that they’d be happy for literally anything. That is not a good baseline comparison for other classes.

    I just wish ZOS would give Templars back Major Mending. It should never have been taken away from them - DK's have a burst heal that is nearly on par with Templars, as do Wardens. The only reason ZOS took away Major Mending from Templar was to promote the Warden when it released and Templars have suffered since because of it.

    Also, has anyone noticed a difference with the Jabs/Sweeps camera revert? Any feedback?
    Xbox One X - NA
    CP 910+


    ~Mains~
    Jabs Giggity - Stamplar
    Fap to my Sweeps - Magplar
    George W AmBush - Stamblade

    ~Alts~
    I Got Electrolytes - Magsorc
    Rhaegeon - MagDK
    Covetous Shen - Magblade - Master Crafter
    Cream Pie Jewelz - Stamden
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
    ✭✭✭✭
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Im just gonna drop in every so often and advocate for Explosive Charge to be made into a stamina gap closer. Before anyone says "but you've got two weapon line gap closers," the DW gap closer is probably the worst idea in the history of ESO and the 2H gap closer, while fine for the cost, pales in comparison to something like Toppling Charge with its off balance. In fact it's so much better that a lot of Stamplars, myself included, do use Toppling Charge. I will say that Stamplars are doing better than they have been, but this is one of their main issues. We have to draw from sooo many sources to get enough damage and offensive utility to be viable. With most classes I feel like I get to use sets that I want to use because I have the tools I need in my kit. With stamplar it's the opposite. You start with nothing and have to build for almost everything. You've gotta think do I want higher weapon damage or do I want major fracture, do I want a high recovery build? Then I'm gonna sacrifice a decent magicka pool. If I want the mag pool Im gonna be toeing the line of just enough regen. Tbh Im fine with it, except that this is not the norm. Only stam sorcs have to deal with this same problem. This is why Stamplars are great in a group but aren't that high up when it comes to duels or solo play. And tbh its not like we really can output more pressure or have any more burst than say Stamden. I dont want to sound to whiney, Im actually more or less happy with where my Stamplar is now. But I do hope that when they move on to looking at the uniqueness of classes that Stamplar gets a little more wiggle room.

    Also cant agree more with @Cinbri about making some changes to jabs so that the targeting is more reliable. However, in making the comparison to flurry, jabs feels faster and more fluid despite its shortcomings. I would not want jabs to feel the way flurry does which is kind of chunky.

    toppling, despite being mag cost+mag dmg, serves this function for stam morph now that its always grants off balance allowing synergy with Truth set. Getting 300-400 WD just for hitting a gap closer that stuns, is VERY attractive that some stamplars noted as liking last patch.

    and with jabs no longer being double mitigated, jabs/sweeps is more potent as a dmg source.

    It’s usable on stam for sure. But it’s not the “stam morph.” Magplars use it. Explosive goes pretty much unused. Stamina uses it because the other options are quite weak. But you have to maintain about a 16k mag pool to use it. That’s fine but it means there’s really only one armor/food combo that does it and leaves you with enough stam recovery. So now you’re sacrificing an armor set and food choice as well as a skill that does physical damage and using a large chunk of magicka just to use toppling charge. Plus it doesn’t really serve as a gap closer, it’s more of just a CC, because you can only afford to use it once strategically. If you’ve got a sorc streaking around then maintaining melee range will see you out of mag in no time. So, I have to straight up disagree with you that it serves the purpose of a stamina morph. It’s still entirely a magicka morph that Stamplars are just making use of because, as I said before, we’re forced to draw from a ton of places to be viable.

    So dont use toppling.
    Even if they made explosive a stam morph its unlikely it would have the same secondary effect as toppling.
    I get that truth is a great set on paper, but its beacuse you have to build for off balance, is why its also kind of a trap.
    In comparison, seventh gives a decent amount of wd, with minimal investment, and easy uptime.
    Anyway for cp, id recommend NMG+ravager, its a really good combo.

    Also, i really dont like your assesmenf of stamplar.
    We have one of the best armor buffs in the game, that also gives a bunch of free regen, easy sources of major savagery, minor protection.
    Extended ritual is stronger than ever, remembrance is probably the strongest defensive grp utlimate in the game.
    Stamplars definetly dont start with nothing.
    Think of this way, we dont have fracture, but we have easy savagery. Ask a stamsorc for example how nice it would be for them to have that buff on a class skill.
    The reverted jabs camera control i aggree is awful, they made a terrible there.

    Every stamina class has a good defense. DKs have major mending, Wardens can get that and shimmering shield plus stam regen, NBs have their own method. Wardens get minor savagery major expedition and so on. So I didn’t mention that because it all comes out pretty equal. But by comparison for debuffs stam templars and also stam sorcs have almost nothing. Like I said I’m pretty happy with them but I still think some tweaks could get made. I’m not expecting a stam gap closer to also have off balance. But the 2H gap closer does pale in comparison to Toppling Charge. I don’t even use Truth so I’m not sure why that got brought up as it’s not a selling point for me. You don’t have to like my assessment but I’m also not wrong. Stamplars have taken a bit of a backseat in PvP for quite some time. And honestly you ask for a couple of small Stamplar buffs here and there and people bite your head off lol. By contrast this entire thread deals with how magplars need help.

    Also stam sorcs are so bad that they’d be happy for literally anything. That is not a good baseline comparison for other classes.

    Sorry if i came across as biting your head off, theres a few ppl on these forums that claim that templars are *** tier trash class, which is not true, and it does trigger me, even if it shouldnt.
    On stamplar specifically, cleanse is more important than ever, and the buff to ER makes a pretty potent hot, i dont feel like my healing needs to be stronger on stamplar, and im in 5 medium since like forever.
    Templars in general dont have a lot of debuffs, same for sorcerers, its not stam specific. I dunno, if every class had easy access to for example fracture thank what would be the point of having sets like NMG, or using a skill like caltrops(which btw works like a dream in bgs).
    I feel fine offensively on stamplar, i have already voiced my concern about both morphs of Backlash not having the best synergy with the class, but its whatever, clearly ZOS is too afraid to make the skill something better.

    I think built in AOE maim(minor ofc) would suit the class the best if anything, but thats about it.

    I mostly play 2h/bow these days so im used to hugging LOS, using that with purify is some of the best defense in the game.
    That being said my stamplar is Nord and im running 5 impreg(5well fitted), so im deceptively tanky, especially in nocp.

    Also LoL on magplars needing help xD. The class used to be my main before i went stampy, and in the current patch im facetanking 5-6+ ppl in light armor while also having enough damage to kill most ppl.
    Magplar is fine, Total Dark root needs to go, its stupid, or make it only root mobs so tankplars in pve can use it, boom fixed.

    Sweep camera revert is bad, really noticeable when trying to hit strafing targets, or if you are constantly rooted(so vs other magplars and magdks).



  • technohic
    technohic
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    ✭✭✭
    Stamplar still could use a decent defense, lack debuffs like major fracture or defile other classes have, and passives on most of the class are totally useless to stamplar. Then Repentence has become a disappointment considering how much stam it returns but requires a dead target. I'd almost give up its heal for double stam return. Its flailing in PvE as bottom tier DPS I hear, and PvP, it has been declining while magplar has been rising.
    Technohic - DC Templar
    Technohicz - DC Nightblade
    Technohix - DC Sorc
    TechDKnohic - DC DK
    Tech No Hic - DC Warden
    Necrohic - DC Necromancer
  • No_Division
    No_Division
    ✭✭✭
    technohic wrote: »
    Stamplar still could use a decent defense, lack debuffs like major fracture or defile other classes have, and passives on most of the class are totally useless to stamplar. Then Repentence has become a disappointment considering how much stam it returns but requires a dead target. I'd almost give up its heal for double stam return. Its flailing in PvE as bottom tier DPS I hear, and PvP, it has been declining while magplar has been rising.

    they just need to unlock the 15% missing healing from the resto passive magplar has. and unlock solar barrage/vamps bane with a return of empowering sweeps to defense+offense.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    We ready can do 3 dd runs with s tank/heal Templar ... pure basically asking for no changes haha

    I want to be able to run trials as a Templar tank and not be shunned by the community for it thanks

    We can do all sorts of things if we and our teammates are good enough players (which I commonly am not :D). What kind of a build do you use to tank/heal 3 DD runs?

    It depends on the dungeon and the group but my main group we’ve done a lot of dungeons 3 man on hard mode ..we have a hard time finding a healer and the three of us have been gaming together for about 10 years almost

    My load out right now

    Bar one
    Repent/silver leash/puncture/deep thought/radiant ward and remembrance

    Bar two

    Extended ritual/heroic slash/range taunt/inner rage/restoring focus/ritual of rebirth

    Ok so I have been switching out ritual of rebirth with honor the dead depends on who is with me

    I also will be dropping deep thought when ps4 gets the update for the fighters guild cc

    I’ll end up going with a frost staff soon too cause apparently eso refuses to give s and b a passive to allow for their one handed enchants be double

    So Extended Ritual, Repentance, a burst heal, and 1 or 2 healing ultimates?

    How about gear -- classic tanking/support? Classic selfish tanking? Olorime/SPC?
  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    So back to visual effects of eclipse -
    this Living Dark without black bubble:
    living-dark.gif
    ^^ Visible enough without black bubble and it drain much less resources to render than bubble.

    Thorn mechanic without black bubble:
    thorn.gif
    ^^ very noticeable effect of proc and even without bubble it look immersion-wise. Turn it back for heal of living dark along with its sound cue (you cant judge on its proc by root proc cue because when you kite [and morph works just for that] you cant see it with your back) or unstable core proc, idk why zos removed such a perfect visual effect.
  • Jabbs_Giggity
    Jabbs_Giggity
    ✭✭✭✭
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Im just gonna drop in every so often and advocate for Explosive Charge to be made into a stamina gap closer. Before anyone says "but you've got two weapon line gap closers," the DW gap closer is probably the worst idea in the history of ESO and the 2H gap closer, while fine for the cost, pales in comparison to something like Toppling Charge with its off balance. In fact it's so much better that a lot of Stamplars, myself included, do use Toppling Charge. I will say that Stamplars are doing better than they have been, but this is one of their main issues. We have to draw from sooo many sources to get enough damage and offensive utility to be viable. With most classes I feel like I get to use sets that I want to use because I have the tools I need in my kit. With stamplar it's the opposite. You start with nothing and have to build for almost everything. You've gotta think do I want higher weapon damage or do I want major fracture, do I want a high recovery build? Then I'm gonna sacrifice a decent magicka pool. If I want the mag pool Im gonna be toeing the line of just enough regen. Tbh Im fine with it, except that this is not the norm. Only stam sorcs have to deal with this same problem. This is why Stamplars are great in a group but aren't that high up when it comes to duels or solo play. And tbh its not like we really can output more pressure or have any more burst than say Stamden. I dont want to sound to whiney, Im actually more or less happy with where my Stamplar is now. But I do hope that when they move on to looking at the uniqueness of classes that Stamplar gets a little more wiggle room.

    Also cant agree more with @Cinbri about making some changes to jabs so that the targeting is more reliable. However, in making the comparison to flurry, jabs feels faster and more fluid despite its shortcomings. I would not want jabs to feel the way flurry does which is kind of chunky.

    toppling, despite being mag cost+mag dmg, serves this function for stam morph now that its always grants off balance allowing synergy with Truth set. Getting 300-400 WD just for hitting a gap closer that stuns, is VERY attractive that some stamplars noted as liking last patch.

    and with jabs no longer being double mitigated, jabs/sweeps is more potent as a dmg source.

    Not really sure why you would want to slot Truth and Toppling on Stamplar...You can get that same WD ALOT easier by just backbarring Seventh Legion and using Rune (which is way cheaper). To me, it's a better option by farming an Overland set than a Dungeon set that both serve the same purpose. Only difference is you're getting an extra 480 Health Recovery from 7th.
    Xbox One X - NA
    CP 910+


    ~Mains~
    Jabs Giggity - Stamplar
    Fap to my Sweeps - Magplar
    George W AmBush - Stamblade

    ~Alts~
    I Got Electrolytes - Magsorc
    Rhaegeon - MagDK
    Covetous Shen - Magblade - Master Crafter
    Cream Pie Jewelz - Stamden
  • Jabbs_Giggity
    Jabbs_Giggity
    ✭✭✭✭
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.
    Xbox One X - NA
    CP 910+


    ~Mains~
    Jabs Giggity - Stamplar
    Fap to my Sweeps - Magplar
    George W AmBush - Stamblade

    ~Alts~
    I Got Electrolytes - Magsorc
    Rhaegeon - MagDK
    Covetous Shen - Magblade - Master Crafter
    Cream Pie Jewelz - Stamden
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.
  • Jabbs_Giggity
    Jabbs_Giggity
    ✭✭✭✭
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.

    I really don't think that Maim would be too OP. Most classes get inherit defense bonuses that Templars do not get. Also, lack of mobility compared to other classes would benefit the use of the high cost cleanse while remaining inside it.

    Everyone on the forums is griping over how OP Cleanse is, but fail to understand that the difference in cost between Templar's ER and Alliance War Efficient Purge is only 500 Mag. 5 Effects vs 3 Effects.

    I would be totally okay with ZOS reducing the cleansed effects of ER to 3 IF they instituted a priority feature that prioritizes negative effects to be cleansed first. Also, (not just for ER) but all "cleansed" or "purged" effects should have a 2 second cooldown from being reapplied.
    Xbox One X - NA
    CP 910+


    ~Mains~
    Jabs Giggity - Stamplar
    Fap to my Sweeps - Magplar
    George W AmBush - Stamblade

    ~Alts~
    I Got Electrolytes - Magsorc
    Rhaegeon - MagDK
    Covetous Shen - Magblade - Master Crafter
    Cream Pie Jewelz - Stamden
  • Jabbs_Giggity
    Jabbs_Giggity
    ✭✭✭✭
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.

    I really don't think that Maim would be too OP. Most classes get inherit defense bonuses that Templars do not get. Also, lack of mobility compared to other classes would benefit the use of the high cost cleanse while remaining inside it.

    Everyone on the forums is griping over how OP Cleanse is, but fail to understand that the difference in cost between Templar's ER and Alliance War Efficient Purge is only 500 Mag. 5 Effects vs 3 Effects.

    I would be totally okay with ZOS reducing the cleansed effects of ER to 3 IF they instituted a priority feature that prioritizes negative effects to be cleansed first. Also, (not just for ER) but all "cleansed" or "purged" effects should have a 2 second cooldown from being reapplied.

    Not to mention, all classes currently benefit from using Onslaught to gain high penetration EXCEPT for Templar. Jabs/Sweeps does not benefit from the penetration bonus, as it's not direct damage. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
    Xbox One X - NA
    CP 910+


    ~Mains~
    Jabs Giggity - Stamplar
    Fap to my Sweeps - Magplar
    George W AmBush - Stamblade

    ~Alts~
    I Got Electrolytes - Magsorc
    Rhaegeon - MagDK
    Covetous Shen - Magblade - Master Crafter
    Cream Pie Jewelz - Stamden
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
    ✭✭✭✭
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.

    I really don't think that Maim would be too OP. Most classes get inherit defense bonuses that Templars do not get. Also, lack of mobility compared to other classes would benefit the use of the high cost cleanse while remaining inside it.

    Everyone on the forums is griping over how OP Cleanse is, but fail to understand that the difference in cost between Templar's ER and Alliance War Efficient Purge is only 500 Mag. 5 Effects vs 3 Effects.

    I would be totally okay with ZOS reducing the cleansed effects of ER to 3 IF they instituted a priority feature that prioritizes negative effects to be cleansed first. Also, (not just for ER) but all "cleansed" or "purged" effects should have a 2 second cooldown from being reapplied.

    Not to mention, all classes currently benefit from using Onslaught to gain high penetration EXCEPT for Templar. Jabs/Sweeps does not benefit from the penetration bonus, as it's not direct damage. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

    You are wrong. The skill specifically says direct damage and channels.
    Also templar has no inherent defense?
    Minor protection and minor mending both help defensively. We have the best purge skill, myraid of snares, magplar has one of the highest tooltip burstheals, living dark etc.
  • EtTuBrutus
    EtTuBrutus
    ✭✭✭✭
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Im just gonna drop in every so often and advocate for Explosive Charge to be made into a stamina gap closer. Before anyone says "but you've got two weapon line gap closers," the DW gap closer is probably the worst idea in the history of ESO and the 2H gap closer, while fine for the cost, pales in comparison to something like Toppling Charge with its off balance. In fact it's so much better that a lot of Stamplars, myself included, do use Toppling Charge. I will say that Stamplars are doing better than they have been, but this is one of their main issues. We have to draw from sooo many sources to get enough damage and offensive utility to be viable. With most classes I feel like I get to use sets that I want to use because I have the tools I need in my kit. With stamplar it's the opposite. You start with nothing and have to build for almost everything. You've gotta think do I want higher weapon damage or do I want major fracture, do I want a high recovery build? Then I'm gonna sacrifice a decent magicka pool. If I want the mag pool Im gonna be toeing the line of just enough regen. Tbh Im fine with it, except that this is not the norm. Only stam sorcs have to deal with this same problem. This is why Stamplars are great in a group but aren't that high up when it comes to duels or solo play. And tbh its not like we really can output more pressure or have any more burst than say Stamden. I dont want to sound to whiney, Im actually more or less happy with where my Stamplar is now. But I do hope that when they move on to looking at the uniqueness of classes that Stamplar gets a little more wiggle room.

    Also cant agree more with @Cinbri about making some changes to jabs so that the targeting is more reliable. However, in making the comparison to flurry, jabs feels faster and more fluid despite its shortcomings. I would not want jabs to feel the way flurry does which is kind of chunky.

    toppling, despite being mag cost+mag dmg, serves this function for stam morph now that its always grants off balance allowing synergy with Truth set. Getting 300-400 WD just for hitting a gap closer that stuns, is VERY attractive that some stamplars noted as liking last patch.

    and with jabs no longer being double mitigated, jabs/sweeps is more potent as a dmg source.

    Not really sure why you would want to slot Truth and Toppling on Stamplar...You can get that same WD ALOT easier by just backbarring Seventh Legion and using Rune (which is way cheaper). To me, it's a better option by farming an Overland set than a Dungeon set that both serve the same purpose. Only difference is you're getting an extra 480 Health Recovery from 7th.

    Truth is an extra 100 damage and a stamina line. It's also bar-able.
  • EtTuBrutus
    EtTuBrutus
    ✭✭✭✭
    Jabbs, i know you love the templar class but common... Aoe minor maim on ER would be so broken.

    Blinding flashes is not fun to play against and is also a broken mechanic that doesn't belong in a pvp game.

    Templar needs its passives adjusted more than anything else.
  • technohic
    technohic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.

    I really don't think that Maim would be too OP. Most classes get inherit defense bonuses that Templars do not get. Also, lack of mobility compared to other classes would benefit the use of the high cost cleanse while remaining inside it.

    Everyone on the forums is griping over how OP Cleanse is, but fail to understand that the difference in cost between Templar's ER and Alliance War Efficient Purge is only 500 Mag. 5 Effects vs 3 Effects.

    I would be totally okay with ZOS reducing the cleansed effects of ER to 3 IF they instituted a priority feature that prioritizes negative effects to be cleansed first. Also, (not just for ER) but all "cleansed" or "purged" effects should have a 2 second cooldown from being reapplied.

    Not to mention, all classes currently benefit from using Onslaught to gain high penetration EXCEPT for Templar. Jabs/Sweeps does not benefit from the penetration bonus, as it's not direct damage. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

    You are wrong. The skill specifically says direct damage and channels.
    Also templar has no inherent defense?
    Minor protection and minor mending both help defensively. We have the best purge skill, myraid of snares, magplar has one of the highest tooltip burstheals, living dark etc.

    No it doesnt. Are you thinking of the DK ultimate?
    Technohic - DC Templar
    Technohicz - DC Nightblade
    Technohix - DC Sorc
    TechDKnohic - DC DK
    Tech No Hic - DC Warden
    Necrohic - DC Necromancer
  • IronWooshu
    IronWooshu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would like to see the snare/immobolize removed on Living Dark and instead add a weapon damage debuff that stacks whenever the Templar is being dealt damage while healing the Templar. This still allows the skill to be used defensively and allowing Templars to go on the offensive and be less polarizing and maddening from the snare and immobilize.

    Thoughts?

    Edited by IronWooshu on August 31, 2019 1:21AM
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    I would like to see the snare/immobolize removed on Living Dark and instead add a weapon damage debuff that stacks whenever the Templar is being dealt damage while healing the Templar. This still allows the skill to be used defensively and allowing Templars to go on the offensive and be less polarizing and maddening from the snare and immobilize.

    Thoughts?

    Magplars are fine defensively. Giving them a weapon damage debuff would just be entirely unnecessary and not too dissimilar from the suggestion above of adding minor maim with the added effect of impacting the attackers heals as well and would just be too powerful. Living Dark doesn't need a secondary effect imo. Maybe boost the heal a bit to allow that window to go offensive. But either way, adding another powerful debuff to Living Dark wouldn't be a good replacement for the immobilize.
    Edited by Vapirko on August 31, 2019 1:46AM
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
    ✭✭✭✭
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.

    I really don't think that Maim would be too OP. Most classes get inherit defense bonuses that Templars do not get. Also, lack of mobility compared to other classes would benefit the use of the high cost cleanse while remaining inside it.

    Everyone on the forums is griping over how OP Cleanse is, but fail to understand that the difference in cost between Templar's ER and Alliance War Efficient Purge is only 500 Mag. 5 Effects vs 3 Effects.

    I would be totally okay with ZOS reducing the cleansed effects of ER to 3 IF they instituted a priority feature that prioritizes negative effects to be cleansed first. Also, (not just for ER) but all "cleansed" or "purged" effects should have a 2 second cooldown from being reapplied.

    Not to mention, all classes currently benefit from using Onslaught to gain high penetration EXCEPT for Templar. Jabs/Sweeps does not benefit from the penetration bonus, as it's not direct damage. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

    You are wrong. The skill specifically says direct damage and channels.
    Also templar has no inherent defense?
    Minor protection and minor mending both help defensively. We have the best purge skill, myraid of snares, magplar has one of the highest tooltip burstheals, living dark etc.

    No it doesnt. Are you thinking of the DK ultimate?

    That is so fing weird, on the pts when they changed it to not affect dot damage the tooltip specifically said driect damage and channels, and it worked for jabs.
    I guess they removed that part on live, lol? Thats so weird. Im at work but ill do some tests after to see whats going on, there was no mention anywhere as to why channels would be excluded...

    Edit: K ive double checked it and in 5.1.2 pts notes it still says channels, so it was sneak changed for live with no explanation or they just forgot. If anyone can test it pls do, will be a few hours b4 i can.
    Edited by Firstmep on August 31, 2019 4:08AM
  • technohic
    technohic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Firstmep wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.

    I really don't think that Maim would be too OP. Most classes get inherit defense bonuses that Templars do not get. Also, lack of mobility compared to other classes would benefit the use of the high cost cleanse while remaining inside it.

    Everyone on the forums is griping over how OP Cleanse is, but fail to understand that the difference in cost between Templar's ER and Alliance War Efficient Purge is only 500 Mag. 5 Effects vs 3 Effects.

    I would be totally okay with ZOS reducing the cleansed effects of ER to 3 IF they instituted a priority feature that prioritizes negative effects to be cleansed first. Also, (not just for ER) but all "cleansed" or "purged" effects should have a 2 second cooldown from being reapplied.

    Not to mention, all classes currently benefit from using Onslaught to gain high penetration EXCEPT for Templar. Jabs/Sweeps does not benefit from the penetration bonus, as it's not direct damage. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

    You are wrong. The skill specifically says direct damage and channels.
    Also templar has no inherent defense?
    Minor protection and minor mending both help defensively. We have the best purge skill, myraid of snares, magplar has one of the highest tooltip burstheals, living dark etc.

    No it doesnt. Are you thinking of the DK ultimate?

    That is so fing weird, on the pts when they changed it to not affect dot damage the tooltip specifically said driect damage and channels, and it worked for jabs.
    I guess they removed that part on live, lol? Thats so weird. Im at work but ill do some tests after to see whats going on, there was no mention anywhere as to why channels would be excluded...

    Edit: K ive double checked it and in 5.1.2 pts notes it still says channels, so it was sneak changed for live with no explanation or they just forgot. If anyone can test it pls do, will be a few hours b4 i can.

    5.1.5 patch notes. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/488626/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-1-5-scalebreaker-update-23#latest
    Onslaught (morph): This morph no longer refunds Ultimate cost if you gain a killing blow with it. Instead, it converts the Physical and Spell Resistance into Physical and Spell Penetration for your Direct Damage attacks, and increases the duration from 8 seconds to a maximum of 12 seconds. It also no longer ranks up in 1.1% damage per rank.

    It says on the morph just direct damage in game. I would have to test it but I think it might have worked on sweeps/jabs at one point but they stealth changed jabs to be a DOT so not double mitigated by CP, yet cannot take advantage of this.
    Technohic - DC Templar
    Technohicz - DC Nightblade
    Technohix - DC Sorc
    TechDKnohic - DC DK
    Tech No Hic - DC Warden
    Necrohic - DC Necromancer
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
    ✭✭✭✭
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.

    I really don't think that Maim would be too OP. Most classes get inherit defense bonuses that Templars do not get. Also, lack of mobility compared to other classes would benefit the use of the high cost cleanse while remaining inside it.

    Everyone on the forums is griping over how OP Cleanse is, but fail to understand that the difference in cost between Templar's ER and Alliance War Efficient Purge is only 500 Mag. 5 Effects vs 3 Effects.

    I would be totally okay with ZOS reducing the cleansed effects of ER to 3 IF they instituted a priority feature that prioritizes negative effects to be cleansed first. Also, (not just for ER) but all "cleansed" or "purged" effects should have a 2 second cooldown from being reapplied.

    Not to mention, all classes currently benefit from using Onslaught to gain high penetration EXCEPT for Templar. Jabs/Sweeps does not benefit from the penetration bonus, as it's not direct damage. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

    You are wrong. The skill specifically says direct damage and channels.
    Also templar has no inherent defense?
    Minor protection and minor mending both help defensively. We have the best purge skill, myraid of snares, magplar has one of the highest tooltip burstheals, living dark etc.

    No it doesnt. Are you thinking of the DK ultimate?

    That is so fing weird, on the pts when they changed it to not affect dot damage the tooltip specifically said driect damage and channels, and it worked for jabs.
    I guess they removed that part on live, lol? Thats so weird. Im at work but ill do some tests after to see whats going on, there was no mention anywhere as to why channels would be excluded...

    Edit: K ive double checked it and in 5.1.2 pts notes it still says channels, so it was sneak changed for live with no explanation or they just forgot. If anyone can test it pls do, will be a few hours b4 i can.

    5.1.5 patch notes. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/488626/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-1-5-scalebreaker-update-23#latest
    Onslaught (morph): This morph no longer refunds Ultimate cost if you gain a killing blow with it. Instead, it converts the Physical and Spell Resistance into Physical and Spell Penetration for your Direct Damage attacks, and increases the duration from 8 seconds to a maximum of 12 seconds. It also no longer ranks up in 1.1% damage per rank.

    It says on the morph just direct damage in game. I would have to test it but I think it might have worked on sweeps/jabs at one point but they stealth changed jabs to be a DOT so not double mitigated by CP, yet cannot take advantage of this.

    Yes i have seen that, on the 5.1.2 notes, when onslaught was changed not to include dot damage, it stated channels and direct damage attacks.
    Im on mobile, dont ask me to insert the quote, but its there. Since than, there was no explanation as to why channels would be excluded, even tho it seems they changed the wording at least. Very weird.
    I guess i shouldnt be suprised at this point.
  • GallantGuardian
    GallantGuardian
    ✭✭✭
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    I would like to see the snare/immobolize removed on Living Dark and instead add a weapon damage debuff that stacks whenever the Templar is being dealt damage while healing the Templar. This still allows the skill to be used defensively and allowing Templars to go on the offensive and be less polarizing and maddening from the snare and immobilize.

    Thoughts?

    I’ve been fighting hard for an immobilize for Templar for it to just be taken away once we do

    I feel like instead as I’ve said prior that it should be a point blank aoe with the same radius as talons or shards .... and keep the heal aspect
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    I would like to see the snare/immobolize removed on Living Dark and instead add a weapon damage debuff that stacks whenever the Templar is being dealt damage while healing the Templar. This still allows the skill to be used defensively and allowing Templars to go on the offensive and be less polarizing and maddening from the snare and immobilize.

    Thoughts?

    I’ve been fighting hard for an immobilize for Templar for it to just be taken away once we do

    I feel like instead as I’ve said prior that it should be a point blank aoe with the same radius as talons or shards .... and keep the heal aspect

    The issue is there’s no cooldown on it and it’s passive. If you want an immobilize it should be on cast. Otherwise it’s too strong.
  • GallantGuardian
    GallantGuardian
    ✭✭✭
    Vapirko wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    I would like to see the snare/immobolize removed on Living Dark and instead add a weapon damage debuff that stacks whenever the Templar is being dealt damage while healing the Templar. This still allows the skill to be used defensively and allowing Templars to go on the offensive and be less polarizing and maddening from the snare and immobilize.

    Thoughts?

    I’ve been fighting hard for an immobilize for Templar for it to just be taken away once we do

    I feel like instead as I’ve said prior that it should be a point blank aoe with the same radius as talons or shards .... and keep the heal aspect

    The issue is there’s no cooldown on it and it’s passive. If you want an immobilize it should be on cast. Otherwise it’s too strong.

    Sorry if I wasn’t clear

    Point blank aoe means it takes away from it being when I’m damaged to being placed on activation only the heal would be activated when being hit ..in other words I want the immobilize to work like talons and shards

    Also I’d you are immobilized for 3 seconds ... and that duration is up there is a period of time before you can be immobilized again ... even if im casting it over and over... you won’t feel the effect if you’ve already been immobilized ... you have a window of immunity
    Edited by GallantGuardian on August 31, 2019 7:26AM
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
    ✭✭✭✭
    Firstmep wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.

    I really don't think that Maim would be too OP. Most classes get inherit defense bonuses that Templars do not get. Also, lack of mobility compared to other classes would benefit the use of the high cost cleanse while remaining inside it.

    Everyone on the forums is griping over how OP Cleanse is, but fail to understand that the difference in cost between Templar's ER and Alliance War Efficient Purge is only 500 Mag. 5 Effects vs 3 Effects.

    I would be totally okay with ZOS reducing the cleansed effects of ER to 3 IF they instituted a priority feature that prioritizes negative effects to be cleansed first. Also, (not just for ER) but all "cleansed" or "purged" effects should have a 2 second cooldown from being reapplied.

    Not to mention, all classes currently benefit from using Onslaught to gain high penetration EXCEPT for Templar. Jabs/Sweeps does not benefit from the penetration bonus, as it's not direct damage. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

    You are wrong. The skill specifically says direct damage and channels.
    Also templar has no inherent defense?
    Minor protection and minor mending both help defensively. We have the best purge skill, myraid of snares, magplar has one of the highest tooltip burstheals, living dark etc.

    No it doesnt. Are you thinking of the DK ultimate?

    That is so fing weird, on the pts when they changed it to not affect dot damage the tooltip specifically said driect damage and channels, and it worked for jabs.
    I guess they removed that part on live, lol? Thats so weird. Im at work but ill do some tests after to see whats going on, there was no mention anywhere as to why channels would be excluded...

    Edit: K ive double checked it and in 5.1.2 pts notes it still says channels, so it was sneak changed for live with no explanation or they just forgot. If anyone can test it pls do, will be a few hours b4 i can.

    5.1.5 patch notes. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/488626/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-1-5-scalebreaker-update-23#latest
    Onslaught (morph): This morph no longer refunds Ultimate cost if you gain a killing blow with it. Instead, it converts the Physical and Spell Resistance into Physical and Spell Penetration for your Direct Damage attacks, and increases the duration from 8 seconds to a maximum of 12 seconds. It also no longer ranks up in 1.1% damage per rank.

    It says on the morph just direct damage in game. I would have to test it but I think it might have worked on sweeps/jabs at one point but they stealth changed jabs to be a DOT so not double mitigated by CP, yet cannot take advantage of this.

    Yes i have seen that, on the 5.1.2 notes, when onslaught was changed not to include dot damage, it stated channels and direct damage attacks.
    Im on mobile, dont ask me to insert the quote, but its there. Since than, there was no explanation as to why channels would be excluded, even tho it seems they changed the wording at least. Very weird.
    I guess i shouldnt be suprised at this point.

    Ok home from work now, a quick testing on a target dummy shows, my jabs hits almost twice as hard with onlsaught up than without.
    I removed all sources of pen from the build quickly, including CP.
    My Jabs were hitting the dummy for 3.9k crits(0buffs including brutality) without Onslaught, with the ulti buff up it went up to 6.3k per jab.
    So yeah, i think they just forgot to put the wording in, Onslaught is definetly great for jaby jabs.
  • Delparis
    Delparis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.

    I really don't think that Maim would be too OP. Most classes get inherit defense bonuses that Templars do not get. Also, lack of mobility compared to other classes would benefit the use of the high cost cleanse while remaining inside it.

    Everyone on the forums is griping over how OP Cleanse is, but fail to understand that the difference in cost between Templar's ER and Alliance War Efficient Purge is only 500 Mag. 5 Effects vs 3 Effects.

    I would be totally okay with ZOS reducing the cleansed effects of ER to 3 IF they instituted a priority feature that prioritizes negative effects to be cleansed first. Also, (not just for ER) but all "cleansed" or "purged" effects should have a 2 second cooldown from being reapplied.

    Not to mention, all classes currently benefit from using Onslaught to gain high penetration EXCEPT for Templar. Jabs/Sweeps does not benefit from the penetration bonus, as it's not direct damage. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

    You are wrong. The skill specifically says direct damage and channels.
    Also templar has no inherent defense?
    Minor protection and minor mending both help defensively. We have the best purge skill, myraid of snares, magplar has one of the highest tooltip burstheals, living dark etc.

    No it doesnt. Are you thinking of the DK ultimate?

    That is so fing weird, on the pts when they changed it to not affect dot damage the tooltip specifically said driect damage and channels, and it worked for jabs.
    I guess they removed that part on live, lol? Thats so weird. Im at work but ill do some tests after to see whats going on, there was no mention anywhere as to why channels would be excluded...

    Edit: K ive double checked it and in 5.1.2 pts notes it still says channels, so it was sneak changed for live with no explanation or they just forgot. If anyone can test it pls do, will be a few hours b4 i can.

    5.1.5 patch notes. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/488626/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-1-5-scalebreaker-update-23#latest
    Onslaught (morph): This morph no longer refunds Ultimate cost if you gain a killing blow with it. Instead, it converts the Physical and Spell Resistance into Physical and Spell Penetration for your Direct Damage attacks, and increases the duration from 8 seconds to a maximum of 12 seconds. It also no longer ranks up in 1.1% damage per rank.

    It says on the morph just direct damage in game. I would have to test it but I think it might have worked on sweeps/jabs at one point but they stealth changed jabs to be a DOT so not double mitigated by CP, yet cannot take advantage of this.

    Yes i have seen that, on the 5.1.2 notes, when onslaught was changed not to include dot damage, it stated channels and direct damage attacks.
    Im on mobile, dont ask me to insert the quote, but its there. Since than, there was no explanation as to why channels would be excluded, even tho it seems they changed the wording at least. Very weird.
    I guess i shouldnt be suprised at this point.

    Ok home from work now, a quick testing on a target dummy shows, my jabs hits almost twice as hard with onlsaught up than without.
    I removed all sources of pen from the build quickly, including CP.
    My Jabs were hitting the dummy for 3.9k crits(0buffs including brutality) without Onslaught, with the ulti buff up it went up to 6.3k per jab.
    So yeah, i think they just forgot to put the wording in, Onslaught is definetly great for jaby jabs.

    So jabs are only decent during ulti buff...
    Talking about a spammable skill
    ZOS don't fix old bugs, they harbor them
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
    ✭✭✭✭
    Delparis wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.

    I really don't think that Maim would be too OP. Most classes get inherit defense bonuses that Templars do not get. Also, lack of mobility compared to other classes would benefit the use of the high cost cleanse while remaining inside it.

    Everyone on the forums is griping over how OP Cleanse is, but fail to understand that the difference in cost between Templar's ER and Alliance War Efficient Purge is only 500 Mag. 5 Effects vs 3 Effects.

    I would be totally okay with ZOS reducing the cleansed effects of ER to 3 IF they instituted a priority feature that prioritizes negative effects to be cleansed first. Also, (not just for ER) but all "cleansed" or "purged" effects should have a 2 second cooldown from being reapplied.

    Not to mention, all classes currently benefit from using Onslaught to gain high penetration EXCEPT for Templar. Jabs/Sweeps does not benefit from the penetration bonus, as it's not direct damage. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

    You are wrong. The skill specifically says direct damage and channels.
    Also templar has no inherent defense?
    Minor protection and minor mending both help defensively. We have the best purge skill, myraid of snares, magplar has one of the highest tooltip burstheals, living dark etc.

    No it doesnt. Are you thinking of the DK ultimate?

    That is so fing weird, on the pts when they changed it to not affect dot damage the tooltip specifically said driect damage and channels, and it worked for jabs.
    I guess they removed that part on live, lol? Thats so weird. Im at work but ill do some tests after to see whats going on, there was no mention anywhere as to why channels would be excluded...

    Edit: K ive double checked it and in 5.1.2 pts notes it still says channels, so it was sneak changed for live with no explanation or they just forgot. If anyone can test it pls do, will be a few hours b4 i can.

    5.1.5 patch notes. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/488626/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-1-5-scalebreaker-update-23#latest
    Onslaught (morph): This morph no longer refunds Ultimate cost if you gain a killing blow with it. Instead, it converts the Physical and Spell Resistance into Physical and Spell Penetration for your Direct Damage attacks, and increases the duration from 8 seconds to a maximum of 12 seconds. It also no longer ranks up in 1.1% damage per rank.

    It says on the morph just direct damage in game. I would have to test it but I think it might have worked on sweeps/jabs at one point but they stealth changed jabs to be a DOT so not double mitigated by CP, yet cannot take advantage of this.

    Yes i have seen that, on the 5.1.2 notes, when onslaught was changed not to include dot damage, it stated channels and direct damage attacks.
    Im on mobile, dont ask me to insert the quote, but its there. Since than, there was no explanation as to why channels would be excluded, even tho it seems they changed the wording at least. Very weird.
    I guess i shouldnt be suprised at this point.

    Ok home from work now, a quick testing on a target dummy shows, my jabs hits almost twice as hard with onlsaught up than without.
    I removed all sources of pen from the build quickly, including CP.
    My Jabs were hitting the dummy for 3.9k crits(0buffs including brutality) without Onslaught, with the ulti buff up it went up to 6.3k per jab.
    So yeah, i think they just forgot to put the wording in, Onslaught is definetly great for jaby jabs.

    So jabs are only decent during ulti buff...
    Talking about a spammable skill

    Im sorry which part of my post gives you that idea?
    I literally said i was completely unbuffed, my build has about 3.5k wpd unbuffed so ofc my jabs hit like crap, and i removed all pen sources as well.
    Fully buffed on the same dummy, with my cp and everything in place i get far higher numbers ofc.
    Edited by Firstmep on September 1, 2019 5:15AM
  • Delparis
    Delparis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Delparis wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.

    I really don't think that Maim would be too OP. Most classes get inherit defense bonuses that Templars do not get. Also, lack of mobility compared to other classes would benefit the use of the high cost cleanse while remaining inside it.

    Everyone on the forums is griping over how OP Cleanse is, but fail to understand that the difference in cost between Templar's ER and Alliance War Efficient Purge is only 500 Mag. 5 Effects vs 3 Effects.

    I would be totally okay with ZOS reducing the cleansed effects of ER to 3 IF they instituted a priority feature that prioritizes negative effects to be cleansed first. Also, (not just for ER) but all "cleansed" or "purged" effects should have a 2 second cooldown from being reapplied.

    Not to mention, all classes currently benefit from using Onslaught to gain high penetration EXCEPT for Templar. Jabs/Sweeps does not benefit from the penetration bonus, as it's not direct damage. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

    You are wrong. The skill specifically says direct damage and channels.
    Also templar has no inherent defense?
    Minor protection and minor mending both help defensively. We have the best purge skill, myraid of snares, magplar has one of the highest tooltip burstheals, living dark etc.

    No it doesnt. Are you thinking of the DK ultimate?

    That is so fing weird, on the pts when they changed it to not affect dot damage the tooltip specifically said driect damage and channels, and it worked for jabs.
    I guess they removed that part on live, lol? Thats so weird. Im at work but ill do some tests after to see whats going on, there was no mention anywhere as to why channels would be excluded...

    Edit: K ive double checked it and in 5.1.2 pts notes it still says channels, so it was sneak changed for live with no explanation or they just forgot. If anyone can test it pls do, will be a few hours b4 i can.

    5.1.5 patch notes. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/488626/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-1-5-scalebreaker-update-23#latest
    Onslaught (morph): This morph no longer refunds Ultimate cost if you gain a killing blow with it. Instead, it converts the Physical and Spell Resistance into Physical and Spell Penetration for your Direct Damage attacks, and increases the duration from 8 seconds to a maximum of 12 seconds. It also no longer ranks up in 1.1% damage per rank.

    It says on the morph just direct damage in game. I would have to test it but I think it might have worked on sweeps/jabs at one point but they stealth changed jabs to be a DOT so not double mitigated by CP, yet cannot take advantage of this.

    Yes i have seen that, on the 5.1.2 notes, when onslaught was changed not to include dot damage, it stated channels and direct damage attacks.
    Im on mobile, dont ask me to insert the quote, but its there. Since than, there was no explanation as to why channels would be excluded, even tho it seems they changed the wording at least. Very weird.
    I guess i shouldnt be suprised at this point.

    Ok home from work now, a quick testing on a target dummy shows, my jabs hits almost twice as hard with onlsaught up than without.
    I removed all sources of pen from the build quickly, including CP.
    My Jabs were hitting the dummy for 3.9k crits(0buffs including brutality) without Onslaught, with the ulti buff up it went up to 6.3k per jab.
    So yeah, i think they just forgot to put the wording in, Onslaught is definetly great for jaby jabs.

    So jabs are only decent during ulti buff...
    Talking about a spammable skill

    Im sorry which part of my post gives you that idea?
    I literally said i was completely unbuffed, my build has about 3.5k wpd unbuffed so ofc my jabs hit like crap, and i removed all pen sources as well.
    Fully buffed on the same dummy, with my cp and everything in place i get far higher numbers ofc.

    3.9k without onslaught vs 6.3k with onslaught.

    Huge difference for only 1 buff applied imo
    ZOS don't fix old bugs, they harbor them
  • technohic
    technohic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Delparis wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Delparis wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Based on what everyone is saying, I don't think ZOS will ever implement most ideas we are coming up with...they just make too much sense, logically.

    However, IMO, I would gladly like to see the following for the class in the future without making it blatantly OP:

    1. ER drop the snare completely and get Minor Maim to enemies within it's circle. This would really help both Stamplar and Magplar out defensively. Right now, Templar toolkit just has too much Snare (it's arguably our only debuff spanned across three class skill lines...)

    2. Jabs/Sweeps targeting mechanic to be changed completely. Single Target channel attack that has splash damage up to 3 nearby enemies. *Drop the damn Snare from Jabs; why not add damage bonus to last strike? Last strike does 300% more damage if target is under 50% health.

    3. Rework Sun Shield. If it were my decision, I would bring back Blinding Flashes.

    4. Update the Passive "Balanced Warrior" to be such. Increase Weapon/Spell Damage. Increase Physical/Spell Resistance

    5. Really Dawn's Wrath skill line is in a good place. Eclipse is a bit wonky, but really all ZOS can do at this point is change the skill to something completely different. A flat out root skill would be nice.

    6. For Repentance...this skill is controversial. What I would recommend for it is to actively apply Life Steal while attacking an enemy + double the current Stamina return from corpses (Remove the Health return from corpses ofc).

    8. Possibly change Master Ritualist from increase resurrection speed to increased attack speed (Reduce channels by .02/.04 sec)?


    Bottom line, when all is said and done...ZOS won't do any of this, nor any other suggestion we come up with. Why? Because they are arrogant and if they didn't come up with the idea, it won't happen. The other alternative is that it's just too much work to implement.

    So many Templar skills missed their "Audits" and could have been changed to become at the very least, more fluent to play with. I will not disagree that Templars are, in general, in a good spot. However, I will say that Templars are no where near where they should be in the first place.

    I like most of these particularly the point about snares coming from too many places, minor maim would be great although maybe too strong especially in 1v1 as essentially you’d have 100% uptime. Would be amazing for 1vX though. I like the balanced warrior change a lot and it makes sense. And it’s definitely time to change how jabs works, way passed time.

    I really don't think that Maim would be too OP. Most classes get inherit defense bonuses that Templars do not get. Also, lack of mobility compared to other classes would benefit the use of the high cost cleanse while remaining inside it.

    Everyone on the forums is griping over how OP Cleanse is, but fail to understand that the difference in cost between Templar's ER and Alliance War Efficient Purge is only 500 Mag. 5 Effects vs 3 Effects.

    I would be totally okay with ZOS reducing the cleansed effects of ER to 3 IF they instituted a priority feature that prioritizes negative effects to be cleansed first. Also, (not just for ER) but all "cleansed" or "purged" effects should have a 2 second cooldown from being reapplied.

    Not to mention, all classes currently benefit from using Onslaught to gain high penetration EXCEPT for Templar. Jabs/Sweeps does not benefit from the penetration bonus, as it's not direct damage. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

    You are wrong. The skill specifically says direct damage and channels.
    Also templar has no inherent defense?
    Minor protection and minor mending both help defensively. We have the best purge skill, myraid of snares, magplar has one of the highest tooltip burstheals, living dark etc.

    No it doesnt. Are you thinking of the DK ultimate?

    That is so fing weird, on the pts when they changed it to not affect dot damage the tooltip specifically said driect damage and channels, and it worked for jabs.
    I guess they removed that part on live, lol? Thats so weird. Im at work but ill do some tests after to see whats going on, there was no mention anywhere as to why channels would be excluded...

    Edit: K ive double checked it and in 5.1.2 pts notes it still says channels, so it was sneak changed for live with no explanation or they just forgot. If anyone can test it pls do, will be a few hours b4 i can.

    5.1.5 patch notes. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/488626/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-1-5-scalebreaker-update-23#latest
    Onslaught (morph): This morph no longer refunds Ultimate cost if you gain a killing blow with it. Instead, it converts the Physical and Spell Resistance into Physical and Spell Penetration for your Direct Damage attacks, and increases the duration from 8 seconds to a maximum of 12 seconds. It also no longer ranks up in 1.1% damage per rank.

    It says on the morph just direct damage in game. I would have to test it but I think it might have worked on sweeps/jabs at one point but they stealth changed jabs to be a DOT so not double mitigated by CP, yet cannot take advantage of this.

    Yes i have seen that, on the 5.1.2 notes, when onslaught was changed not to include dot damage, it stated channels and direct damage attacks.
    Im on mobile, dont ask me to insert the quote, but its there. Since than, there was no explanation as to why channels would be excluded, even tho it seems they changed the wording at least. Very weird.
    I guess i shouldnt be suprised at this point.

    Ok home from work now, a quick testing on a target dummy shows, my jabs hits almost twice as hard with onlsaught up than without.
    I removed all sources of pen from the build quickly, including CP.
    My Jabs were hitting the dummy for 3.9k crits(0buffs including brutality) without Onslaught, with the ulti buff up it went up to 6.3k per jab.
    So yeah, i think they just forgot to put the wording in, Onslaught is definetly great for jaby jabs.

    So jabs are only decent during ulti buff...
    Talking about a spammable skill

    Im sorry which part of my post gives you that idea?
    I literally said i was completely unbuffed, my build has about 3.5k wpd unbuffed so ofc my jabs hit like crap, and i removed all pen sources as well.
    Fully buffed on the same dummy, with my cp and everything in place i get far higher numbers ofc.

    3.9k without onslaught vs 6.3k with onslaught.

    Huge difference for only 1 buff applied imo

    You do realize that's per hit? 4 in a second, right?

    Jabs and sweeps are really good right now that they are not mitigated by both direct damage and DOT mitigation
    Technohic - DC Templar
    Technohicz - DC Nightblade
    Technohix - DC Sorc
    TechDKnohic - DC DK
    Tech No Hic - DC Warden
    Necrohic - DC Necromancer
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