[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Vapirko

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Living dark should get a minor Hot like 2k (before battle spirit )for 3 secs and attach blinding light for 1 sec every time living dark activates on an enemy.

#BringBackBlindindLight

Aren’t you magplars getting a touch greedy lol. Y’all are strong af with this dot patch.

RebornRequiem

Vapirko wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Living dark should get a minor Hot like 2k (before battle spirit )for 3 secs and attach blinding light for 1 sec every time living dark activates on an enemy.

#BringBackBlindindLight

Aren’t you magplars getting a touch greedy lol. Y’all are strong af with this dot patch.

We are discussing how living dark could be brought into a better state than it is currently but remains useful for templar....what gray supposed is a nerf healingwise.

No_Division

Vapirko wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Living dark should get a minor Hot like 2k (before battle spirit )for 3 secs and attach blinding light for 1 sec every time living dark activates on an enemy.

#BringBackBlindindLight

Aren’t you magplars getting a touch greedy lol. Y’all are strong af with this dot patch.

with our one class dot .

This reminds me of that class rep poll that asked how each class was seen as with regards to DOTS, and stamplar got voted the highest even though they use the same bleeds as other classes lol.

#TheGameSucksAndTheComunityIsEvenWorse

Vapirko

No_Division wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Living dark should get a minor Hot like 2k (before battle spirit )for 3 secs and attach blinding light for 1 sec every time living dark activates on an enemy.

#BringBackBlindindLight

Aren’t you magplars getting a touch greedy lol. Y’all are strong af with this dot patch.

with our one class dot .

This reminds me of that class rep poll that asked how each class was seen as with regards to DOTS, and stamplar got voted the highest even though they use the same bleeds as other classes lol.

#TheGameSucksAndTheComunityIsEvenWorse

Well I was just poking a bit of fun at my my magplar brothers. I mean you can’t deny that magplars are in a strong place with the way things work rn. The new entropy fits very well into their playstyle. And soul trap as well if you choose to use it. But whatever. Everyone thinks their class is the worst.

Nirnroot420

Vapirko wrote: »

No_Division wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Living dark should get a minor Hot like 2k (before battle spirit )for 3 secs and attach blinding light for 1 sec every time living dark activates on an enemy.

#BringBackBlindindLight

Aren’t you magplars getting a touch greedy lol. Y’all are strong af with this dot patch.

with our one class dot .

This reminds me of that class rep poll that asked how each class was seen as with regards to DOTS, and stamplar got voted the highest even though they use the same bleeds as other classes lol.

#TheGameSucksAndTheComunityIsEvenWorse

Well I was just poking a bit of fun at my my magplar brothers. I mean you can’t deny that magplars are in a strong place with the way things work rn. The new entropy fits very well into their playstyle. And soul trap as well if you choose to use it. But whatever. Everyone thinks their class is the worst.

It's just one of those weird things because on paper magplar's changes kept us in the same place or made us even weaker, but the DoT meta and its emphasis on cleanses make magplar look leagues better than it actually is. People just need to learn to slot Purge("b-but muh bar space! not an argument because templars had a slot taken up by cleanse since launch), and I think ZoS should look into buffing Purge in the Alliance War line and maybe even give it a stam morph and then everyone can go back to sleeping on magplars.

Living Dark is of course a decent concept of a skill but it's implementation is utter trash.

No_Division

Vapirko wrote: »

No_Division wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Living dark should get a minor Hot like 2k (before battle spirit )for 3 secs and attach blinding light for 1 sec every time living dark activates on an enemy.

#BringBackBlindindLight

Aren’t you magplars getting a touch greedy lol. Y’all are strong af with this dot patch.

with our one class dot .

This reminds me of that class rep poll that asked how each class was seen as with regards to DOTS, and stamplar got voted the highest even though they use the same bleeds as other classes lol.

#TheGameSucksAndTheComunityIsEvenWorse

Well I was just poking a bit of fun at my my magplar brothers. I mean you can’t deny that magplars are in a strong place with the way things work rn. The new entropy fits very well into their playstyle. And soul trap as well if you choose to use it. But whatever. Everyone thinks their class is the worst.

play the templar and come back

scirocco2

1. we have no ranged ability to keep up the pressure in pvp, dark flare is to slow for pvp, I used to use soul strike as primary ranged spammable but it got nerfed into uselessness.

2. Give us acces to major mending, I end up being healbot in pvp and pve most of the time since that what we are best at so give us the tools we need.

Vapirko

No_Division wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

No_Division wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Living dark should get a minor Hot like 2k (before battle spirit )for 3 secs and attach blinding light for 1 sec every time living dark activates on an enemy.

#BringBackBlindindLight

Aren’t you magplars getting a touch greedy lol. Y’all are strong af with this dot patch.

with our one class dot .

This reminds me of that class rep poll that asked how each class was seen as with regards to DOTS, and stamplar got voted the highest even though they use the same bleeds as other classes lol.

#TheGameSucksAndTheComunityIsEvenWorse

Well I was just poking a bit of fun at my my magplar brothers. I mean you can’t deny that magplars are in a strong place with the way things work rn. The new entropy fits very well into their playstyle. And soul trap as well if you choose to use it. But whatever. Everyone thinks their class is the worst.

play the templar and come back

Was actually thinking about dusting off my magplar. I already tried those new dots on my mag DK and it was just stupid easy to pressure people.

Nirnroot420

scirocco2 wrote: »

1. we have no ranged ability to keep up the pressure in pvp, dark flare is to slow for pvp, I used to use soul strike as primary ranged spammable but it got nerfed into uselessness.

2. Give us acces to major mending, I end up being healbot in pvp and pve most of the time since that what we are best at so give us the tools we need.

1. You have access to force pulse and vampire's bane, and when mixed with the generic DoTs and Purifying Light you have a *ton* of ranged pressure.

2. Giving templars back major mending would overload and overpower the class imo. We're one of the best if not the best mag classes in pvp, and while we have great healing, I don't think one role should define any one class.

Vanos444

Sun shield and its morph, needs to be scaled based on their max resources ( stamina/magicka/health) . Since, this patch is trying to homogenise skills. The skill is useless in all PvE and PvE content.

No_Division

Vanos444 wrote: »

Sun shield and its morph, needs to be scaled based on their max resources ( stamina/magicka/health) . Since, this patch is trying to homogenise skills. The skill is useless in all PvE and PvE content.

I think blazing shield should:
- 30% shield size off your health (ignores Battlespirit)
- the dmg scales with your highest stats

Radiant ward should:
- give 15% shield (ignores battlespirit)
- gives AOE immobilze
- give minor resist buff
- no damage

this way eclipse can stop immobilzing passively and we can get an actual proactive defense back.

xaraan

I realize I am beating a dead horse with this comment, as I've said it for two years+ now, but...

In the realm of tanking: (Not saying this is the only thing they need help with tanking wise), Templar tanks really need a health based self heal (maybe either a morph of breath or morph of clappy heal to force a player to have to choose tankiness or group healing ability in a situation like pvp).

The current hots and heals in the game are use-able to make Templar work in most situations, but compared to any other tank class the lack of some sort of self burst heal really leaves them lacking vs any of those other classes in certain fights. Often you have to juggle a more complicated routine or give up running BiS gear to run selfish gear to make up for what you can pull off on another class.

Vajrak

xaraan wrote: »

I realize I am beating a dead horse with this comment, as I've said it for two years+ now, but...

In the realm of tanking: (Not saying this is the only thing they need help with tanking wise), Templar tanks really need a health based self heal (maybe either a morph of breath or morph of clappy heal to force a player to have to choose tankiness or group healing ability in a situation like pvp).

The current hots and heals in the game are use-able to make Templar work in most situations, but compared to any other tank class the lack of some sort of self burst heal really leaves them lacking vs any of those other classes in certain fights. Often you have to juggle a more complicated routine or give up running BiS gear to run selfish gear to make up for what you can pull off on another class.

You're talking about the old Healing Ritual, which you could fire off on a taunt/shield rotation, and would restore about 20-30% of your hp easily. The current iteration of it is too high cost to do this with, so I keep hoping they'll revert this. The old animation, cast time, and PBAoE burst heal were simply amazing, and the ult generation of 60% or less applied to yourself also, all it needed as a reduction on the cast time to 1s, not a removal of it all together.

Blazing Shield works well IF you are built for it --- adjust the amount of damage it returns up a little, and it'll be more accessible; there is no need for it to ignore battle spirit.

Radiant Ward works just fine as well in it's current form, and is easy to work into a rotation for defense while going on the offensive.

No_Division

Vajrak wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I realize I am beating a dead horse with this comment, as I've said it for two years+ now, but...

In the realm of tanking: (Not saying this is the only thing they need help with tanking wise), Templar tanks really need a health based self heal (maybe either a morph of breath or morph of clappy heal to force a player to have to choose tankiness or group healing ability in a situation like pvp).

The current hots and heals in the game are use-able to make Templar work in most situations, but compared to any other tank class the lack of some sort of self burst heal really leaves them lacking vs any of those other classes in certain fights. Often you have to juggle a more complicated routine or give up running BiS gear to run selfish gear to make up for what you can pull off on another class.

You're talking about the old Healing Ritual, which you could fire off on a taunt/shield rotation, and would restore about 20-30% of your hp easily. The current iteration of it is too high cost to do this with, so I keep hoping they'll revert this. The old animation, cast time, and PBAoE burst heal were simply amazing, and the ult generation of 60% or less applied to yourself also, all it needed as a reduction on the cast time to 1s, not a removal of it all together.

Blazing Shield works well IF you are built for it --- adjust the amount of damage it returns up a little, and it'll be more accessible; there is no need for it to ignore battle spirit.

Radiant Ward works just fine as well in it's current form, and is easy to work into a rotation for defense while going on the offensive.

blazing dmg already ignores BS. problem is 15% max health is a pitiful shield to use blazing shield correctly as a instant defense/delayed burst mechanic. Right now, with 24k health youll only get a 4k shield and 45% of that is like 1800 dmg.
Back when it was good, it used to give an 8k shield at 26k health and 50% dmg very easily so you could use it right before turning to offense so it popped when you wanted it do instead of it popping when you dont.

https://youtu.be/_ImtDvp6GNU

Returning blazing shield back will help to restructure templar abilities into a much more diverse powerhouse than it is currently on live.

Delparis

Since Templar got nerfed long ago by removing Major Mending (in favor of the Warden), templar can't selfheal effectively.
Also with minor and major defile, the healing is more and more cut to survive in BG and Cyrodiil.
Since ZoS won't bring back Major Mending, i propose that they add Major Vitality in the templar passives or by firing a skill.

@Nefas

No_Division

Delparis wrote: »

Since Templar got nerfed long ago by removing Major Mending (in favor of the Warden), templar can't selfheal effectively.
Also with minor and major defile, the healing is more and more cut to survive in BG and Cyrodiil.
Since ZoS won't bring back Major Mending, i propose that they add Major Vitality in the templar passives or by firing a skill.

@Nefas

They can self heal fine in PvP. Problem is that self healing is very one dimensional from both perspectives of the fight. Living dark was a great change to help with this but other adjustments are needed (blazing changes, maybe bring back reflect with eclipse, passive rework).

We don't need major mending

Delparis

No_Division wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Since Templar got nerfed long ago by removing Major Mending (in favor of the Warden), templar can't selfheal effectively.
Also with minor and major defile, the healing is more and more cut to survive in BG and Cyrodiil.
Since ZoS won't bring back Major Mending, i propose that they add Major Vitality in the templar passives or by firing a skill.

@Nefas

They can self heal fine in PvP. Problem is that self healing is very one dimensional from both perspectives of the fight. Living dark was a great change to help with this but other adjustments are needed (blazing changes, maybe bring back reflect with eclipse, passive rework).

We don't need major mending

Not Major Mending, templar need Major Vitality.
This should help with the healing especially when you heal someone else and die.
Sorc, NB got that. why not templar ? this seems fair after ZOS stole Major Mending and gave it to Warden.


Major Vitality (Increase healing taken by 30%)

• Undaunted Ability: Bone Surge (Morph of Bone Shield)
• Nightblade Siphoning Ultimate: Soul Siphon (Morph of Soul Shred)
• Sorcerer Dark Magic Ability: Restraining Prison (Morph of Encase)
• Alchemy Potion: Vitality (Beetle Scuttle, Butterfly Wing, Fleshy Larva, Torchbug Thorax)
• Armor Set: Scourge Harvester (Loot)
• Armor Set: Daedric Trickery Set (Crafted)
• Weapon Set: Mender's Ward (Loot)
• Armor Set: Jailer's Tenacity (Loot)

No_Division

Delparis wrote: »

No_Division wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Since Templar got nerfed long ago by removing Major Mending (in favor of the Warden), templar can't selfheal effectively.
Also with minor and major defile, the healing is more and more cut to survive in BG and Cyrodiil.
Since ZoS won't bring back Major Mending, i propose that they add Major Vitality in the templar passives or by firing a skill.

@Nefas

They can self heal fine in PvP. Problem is that self healing is very one dimensional from both perspectives of the fight. Living dark was a great change to help with this but other adjustments are needed (blazing changes, maybe bring back reflect with eclipse, passive rework).

We don't need major mending

Not Major Mending, templar need Major Vitality.
This should help with the healing especially when you heal someone else and die.
Sorc, NB got that. why not templar ? this seems fair after ZOS stole Major Mending and gave it to Warden.


Major Vitality (Increase healing taken by 30%)

• Undaunted Ability: Bone Surge (Morph of Bone Shield)
• Nightblade Siphoning Ultimate: Soul Siphon (Morph of Soul Shred)
• Sorcerer Dark Magic Ability: Restraining Prison (Morph of Encase)
• Alchemy Potion: Vitality (Beetle Scuttle, Butterfly Wing, Fleshy Larva, Torchbug Thorax)
• Armor Set: Scourge Harvester (Loot)
• Armor Set: Daedric Trickery Set (Crafted)
• Weapon Set: Mender's Ward (Loot)
• Armor Set: Jailer's Tenacity (Loot)

They don't need it. We get unnamed minor+ with low health that works across multiple targets. I'd rather keep our last remaining identity as a healer. That plus minor mending = 23% healing which is basically major mending/vitality.

I think the Templar tank should get something else. I'd rather radiant aura, ward, and passives give them something you need that makes the tank more flavorful than just a health shield spamplar.

Delparis

No_Division wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

No_Division wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Since Templar got nerfed long ago by removing Major Mending (in favor of the Warden), templar can't selfheal effectively.
Also with minor and major defile, the healing is more and more cut to survive in BG and Cyrodiil.
Since ZoS won't bring back Major Mending, i propose that they add Major Vitality in the templar passives or by firing a skill.

@Nefas

They can self heal fine in PvP. Problem is that self healing is very one dimensional from both perspectives of the fight. Living dark was a great change to help with this but other adjustments are needed (blazing changes, maybe bring back reflect with eclipse, passive rework).

We don't need major mending

Not Major Mending, templar need Major Vitality.
This should help with the healing especially when you heal someone else and die.
Sorc, NB got that. why not templar ? this seems fair after ZOS stole Major Mending and gave it to Warden.


Major Vitality (Increase healing taken by 30%)

• Undaunted Ability: Bone Surge (Morph of Bone Shield)
• Nightblade Siphoning Ultimate: Soul Siphon (Morph of Soul Shred)
• Sorcerer Dark Magic Ability: Restraining Prison (Morph of Encase)
• Alchemy Potion: Vitality (Beetle Scuttle, Butterfly Wing, Fleshy Larva, Torchbug Thorax)
• Armor Set: Scourge Harvester (Loot)
• Armor Set: Daedric Trickery Set (Crafted)
• Weapon Set: Mender's Ward (Loot)
• Armor Set: Jailer's Tenacity (Loot)

They don't need it. We get unnamed minor+ with low health that works across multiple targets. I'd rather keep our last remaining identity as a healer. That plus minor mending = 23% healing which is basically major mending/vitality.

I think the Templar tank should get something else. I'd rather radiant aura, ward, and passives give them something you need that makes the tank more flavorful than just a health shield spamplar.

Tank need a good shield to be some kinda of magicka tank.
ZoS should change the sun shield or at least add major vitality to it.

zParallaxz

scirocco2 wrote: »

1. we have no ranged ability to keep up the pressure in pvp, dark flare is to slow for pvp, I used to use soul strike as primary ranged spammable but it got nerfed into uselessness.

2. Give us acces to major mending, I end up being healbot in pvp and pve most of the time since that what we are best at so give us the tools we need.

You can’t be serious with that one, I’ve made several iterations of a ranged beam build. Magplars while not having multiple offensive “class” abilities, they can easily make up for it with destro and the new dots. Ranged magplar can definitely be played it just requires you to know how to burst people rapidly without using jabs. A simple rotation of applying entropy, purifying light, vampires bane, soul trap, javelin or destro cc, and then just continually spamming radiant destruction does serious “ranged” damage. All of this including a good ranged ult like meteor or soul assault is strong in anyone’s hands.

FrancisCrawford

I'd be happy if templars never became particularly strong as "pure" tanks, but were buffed a little for healer/tank combo roles (suitable for 3-DD runs and the like).The scaffolding is already there. Focus and the related passives stuff a lot into one bar slot. Repentance can be procced shortly after lots of adds have been stamina-leashed in. But getting enough primary stats and sustain is always a problem in such combo builds.

GallantGuardian

We ready can do 3 dd runs with s tank/heal Templar ... pure basically asking for no changes haha

I want to be able to run trials as a Templar tank and not be shunned by the community for it thanks

FrancisCrawford

GallantGuardian wrote: »

We ready can do 3 dd runs with s tank/heal Templar ... pure basically asking for no changes haha

I want to be able to run trials as a Templar tank and not be shunned by the community for it thanks

We can do all sorts of things if we and our teammates are good enough players (which I commonly am not ). What kind of a build do you use to tank/heal 3 DD runs?

Vajrak

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

We ready can do 3 dd runs with s tank/heal Templar ... pure basically asking for no changes haha

I want to be able to run trials as a Templar tank and not be shunned by the community for it thanks

We can do all sorts of things if we and our teammates are good enough players (which I commonly am not ). What kind of a build do you use to tank/heal 3 DD runs?

My Templar Heal Tank :P

As for Blazing/Radiant -- personally I use Blazing only on 40k+ hp builds, Radiant on all others, since it procs decent damage while rotating it in combat.

GallantGuardian

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

We ready can do 3 dd runs with s tank/heal Templar ... pure basically asking for no changes haha

I want to be able to run trials as a Templar tank and not be shunned by the community for it thanks

We can do all sorts of things if we and our teammates are good enough players (which I commonly am not ). What kind of a build do you use to tank/heal 3 DD runs?

It depends on the dungeon and the group but my main group we’ve done a lot of dungeons 3 man on hard mode ..we have a hard time finding a healer and the three of us have been gaming together for about 10 years almost

My load out right now

Bar one
Repent/silver leash/puncture/deep thought/radiant ward and remembrance

Bar two

Extended ritual/heroic slash/range taunt/inner rage/restoring focus/ritual of rebirth

Ok so I have been switching out ritual of rebirth with honor the dead depends on who is with me

I also will be dropping deep thought when ps4 gets the update for the fighters guild cc

I’ll end up going with a frost staff soon too cause apparently eso refuses to give s and b a passive to allow for their one handed enchants be double

Cinbri

Bit chaotic feedback but here it goes:

1. Old visuals: since zos want to get rid of old useless stuff to polish game here is couple stuff in templar arsenal:
A: Luminous Shards: once were restroing resources over time and this effect was represented by white coat on weapon:

It no longer has such functionality but visual still proccing. Delete it.
B: Crescent Sweep: once was granting major protection buff that was looking like white-yellow coat on armor similar to Rune Focus effect:

It no longer grant this buff so this effect can be removed too.


2. Dark Flare: pure pvp morph of skill but wasn't addressed for a long time apart from getting more pointless nerfs, while other morph of Solar Barrage was constantly changed into what it is nowdays. It because barrage was updated - it became go-to morph for all content, even in pvp this morph overshadow strictly pvp morph of dark flare - no cast time, unblockable dot with damage boost and portable 8m aoe, while Dark Flare was audited to be templar version of Snipe - casttime, strong but dodgeable debuff with single target damage that stoping fluid dps rotations but it cant work as it on magicka build both coz its range is different and overall snipe-spamming gamestyle not work on magicka buid.
Time to address this morph and equalize it to it counterpart:
Rename it into something like Barrage of Dark, make it so you summon 5 spheres of solar energy floating around you (smth like dk inferno or psijic passive Spell Orb), every 2 seconds Orb shooting into closest enemy dealing 616 damage(on 160cp template) applying major defile for 3sec(5 with enduring rays passive), While this ability is active you gain Empower, increasing the damage of your Light Attacks by 40%. Scale of your highest stats.
In thus iteration it will be still singe-target skill taht work as prolonged duration attack "barrage" with strong pvp debuff and boost of light attacks damage by Empowering that is act same as Solar Barrage. DK Inferno works great while Spell Orb visual effect of floating spheres also cool so in balance and visual effects aspects it will be fine.
Visual could look smth like this, more organized orbs:

3. Sweep Ultimate: And once again minimal cost of ultimates is 125 so I suggest to standardize cost of Sweep to be equal to it in a way of how Incap was addressed - scale to 125 ult to have new effect. Especially for Crescent Sweep having Empowered on ultimate is stupid, it forcing to use only this ult which by itself not worse dps ultimate, while its additional effect is prolonging duration of empowered. I suggest to remove Empower from it along with its scaling dot mechanic, and make Flare skill to scale of highest stat so stamina builds can have Empowered on spammable skill; and grant ult some other usefull mechanic, while both morphs of ult upon reaching 125 ult gain new effect - smth like either aoe stun, or dot scaling of crescent added to both morphs in form of being max scaled effect upon reaching 125ult or just make its dot to also being hot to represent its devine source of energy.

4. Jabs - this skill should become main paint point. Its iconic skill but seriously underperform.
A. Jabs + Infused trait It is prolonged channeled spammable like Flurry or Uppercut but last audit added more disparity between those skills dps-wise: in a Joy's thread already posted how to achieve 1.0s weave with jabs and that is impossible anywhere outside of target dummy, so this skill with weaving light attacks still takes 1.2s just like for other skills like Uppercut.
Flurry 0.6s, Uppercut 0.8s, Jabs 1.0s but its duration while weaving exceed this time to 1.2s, while former spammables are act within 1s. And while dk passive last update was audited with having in mind Charged weapon trait - it means weapon traits are important but jabs wasn't audited having in mind Infused trait which beside damage boost also proc additional effect like mana absorb, etc.
Uppercut was audited to be 0.8s with damage boost while Jabs is 1.0s. Taking template as example of damage:

Uppercut - 1159, Jabs - 1232. ~6% more damage because Jabs are slower and thus light attacks weave slower as it was said in 4.2.5: "accounting for the fact that channeling results in less Light Attacks and enchantment procs.", but:
skill is not weapon line and thus unlike Flurry and Uppercut it fully dependant on light attacks to proc enchant but because its 1.2s weave it cant proc it reliably with Infused trait that has 2s cooldown. And while Uppercut can be weaved like 0.8(Uppercut)+0.2(light attack animation)=1.0s. In theory it can be weaved in 1sec, like this:

0.100s delay coz high pts ping

Lets say Infused Befoul: 3689 every 2sec, for 4sec timestamp:
LA+Uppercut(imagine skill itself not proc enchant) while skill is 1.0+2.0+3.0+4.0;; proc will be 0.0-2.0-4.0 =3procs 11067 damage. (while cos skill can proc byitself being weapon skill it can get to 4 procs)
Jabs 1.2+1.2+1.2+1.2 - already 4.6 that exceed duration;; proc will be 0.0-3.6 - 2procs 7378 damage. It is like 50% loss taking into account additional bonuses like mana/stam absorb that also decrease per second.
With help of @Mojomonkeyman here is in longer scenario of overall non-jabs vs jabs - still there is loss of using jabs with Infused:
https://imgur.com/eExh83T
While damage disparity between both skill is result of 0.2 difference in cast-time, damage disparity on Jabs is huge when it goes to Infused trait in additional to loss of glyph effect like stamina absorb per second. I suggest to reduce damage of Jabs to be equal to Uppercut and reduce its channel time to same 0.8s to take into account loss from Infused. As all problems are from 0.2s, and it cant be compensated by damage coz glyphs has additional strong effects apart from it
Another solution is change one of that aedric line passives to make line count as weapon line and thus proc enchant by skill itself - it will make Jabs more inline like Flurry - where first tick of channel will proc enchant by itself. But it might be too much in favour of jabs.

B. It is fusion of a lot of mechanics of offense and brawling styles but result of it not being some super overloaded spammable but this overloading with effects makes it only worse. It just need some sort simplification.
1. Its unique combination that is smth like Flurry+Uppercut+(Scythe). But combining them all doesn't make skill better, especially for Puncturing Sweep.
While Flurry and Uppercut are auto-targeting and this far easier to use them, Jabs is pbaoe like Scythe frontal without auto-targeting making so channeling pbaoe is not as effective as instant skill as it too easy to miss.
Like this when enemy right in your focus - channeled nature of skill combined with aoe don't work as good as it sound on paper:

Its snare barely helps coz it on last hit and even there it can miss. Even having major speed buff not helping to jabs because it work just like reverted speed for enemy - even when you have speed and enemy dancing around you - with your increased speed it will be as harder to rotate camera to land on enemy as if enemy had speed and you had to rotate it faster too. Hard CC on last hit back in time was abomination that ruined skill but nowdays with proper treatment to skill it would make it as effective as uppercut morph.
In fact being forced to constantly rotate camera fast left and right to actually land jabs is negatively affect on physical health of player.
2. It very perfomance draining - skill calculating closest targets, nearby targets, crits for each of those targets, play visual effect on each of enemy, etc.. It need simplification of stop being such performance-related skill.
3. Puncturing Sweep is brawling skill, like swallow soul or whip or scythe, but it underperform in this role also. And here it again weird combination of offense and defense.
Swallow soul is dps brawling skill thus its heal is % of damage dealt, but it not just one proc but hot over longer time that allow to switch to other action while hot if ticking on you.
Whip is dps skill but with more brawling nature because its heal is moderate instead of %, so it dependant on offensive stats, but independent to damage itself, allowing it to be more reliable brawling tool than soul.
Scythe is more like reverted version of Sweeps - pure tanking tool because it deal ordinary aoe damage, its heal is moderate instead of % of damage and it based on max hp. All this in combine makes it perfect brawling tool.
Bloothrist - closest comparison to jabs, coz its channel with heal that is % of damage, i.e. pure dps brawling tool. But unlike jabs it auto-targeting and this make heal more reliable than undodgeable jabs, where being undodgeable barely helps nowdays.
Jabs underperform from all brawling skill coz its strictly heal of %, which half of time will miss. Its heal dependant on damage but its aoe is not effective and thus heal you get will be ridiculously lower than heal of Scythe even against capped amount of enemies.

I suggest to simplify Jabs into less overloaded:
Since Biting Jabs emit Reflective Light - how about instead of pure aoe to change both morphs into targetable single-target skill to be inline with flurry and uppercut to point that it offensive channel, not tanking. And like RL it just deal X% of damage to capped amount of nearby enemies(like scythe or reflective light), for example, 2 enemies. Like lighting tri-focus it will make skill count as single target and its semi-aoe damage will be % of original damage and thus wont take so many calculations to make. Also make it visual effect to proc only on main target, which look like shards of spear so it will look like aoe effect if shards hitting nearby enemies.
Another variant is to address heal of Puncturing Sweep - everyone agree that moderate heal based on stats is better as brawling tool than % of damage because in pvp all the benefits you can get from boosting % heal by boosting damage are negated by counters to skill. Thus Sweep heal can be changed to be more like Whip - which is moderate heal based on max stats, to take into account its brawling tool, not tanking. But make it cap on 6 targets only like Scythe, I.e. number of aoe cap
Sweeps still wont be top damage spammable nor in pvp nor in pve, but this is exact how brawling skills perform and wont be problem. Brawling skills are shining mostly in PvP where their lack of damage in compare to skills like Elemental Weapon is validated by brawling capability it creating. In PvE it also wont be top dps skill but it not problem as there is number of choice to go for pure offensive skills, like rest of classes doing.


5. Eclipse:
1. Visual effect are not match skill functionality. Black bubble look more like shield than some moderate heal, etc. Its black bubble has swirling effect of absorbing light on top of sphere but it doesn't act as absorbing shield as crystal shield does.
It hard to determine what morph is on you currently because most noticeable effect is similar black bubble on caster.
Proc effect of Unstable Core is not match functionality of morph as its not being aoe damage while effect suggest.
Proc heal of Living Dark changed to be just small hot like Cleansing Ritual, which is almost invisible behind black bubble. Proc also lost sound cue, so you don't know when you get healed. Its root lack of visual effect to show duration of root,
Black bubble effect is performance-draining, making it not rendering in large battles.
Here is again couple ideas:
1. Change Living Dark to be what it was in patchnotes "being covered by protective darkness" not lightless sphere as than it will be more different from other morph and you will be able to actually determine if you was affected by different morphs, Also it will match functionality of healing that looking weird right now - how does lightless bubble heal you? Also it will make healing proc more noticeable because its brightness wont be negated by black bubble.
Here compilation how it will look in action:

https://youtu.be/GmbWYMCUNGg
https://youtu.be/fnUdCIUPkUk
https://youtu.be/BAh2jg2cv4Q
https://youtu.be/AxJ8NbV_4II

2. Incase you want to keep it as black bubble - remove this new effect of heal and and add back thorn visual effect along with its sound cue. Than it will be visible and hearable when you got heal and its visual effect will just look like there was light going from inside of sphere from it cracks that healed caster:

More beam-like version of effect that in other games looks like this:

3. Add visual effect for at least root effect, and since in debuff tracker it look similar as Darkness in Craddle of Shadows - you can add similar effect of darkness on enemy feet, being visual cue of root duration.
4. Remove old effect of magnetic bomb and add back thorn mechanic that was perfectly fine incase you wont add it as effect of heal for Living Dark.
5. Change its effect as right now apart from black bubble at has layer of light that consumed by swirling on top of black sphere:

This is not represent functionality of skill. Also black bubble has problems of being visible from upside as it becomes pale unlike similar effects that are bright and thus noticeable like this:

I suggest to either:
A. Change color of sphere to yellow as there is already in form of blinking implemented for Volendrung, such effect exists and it noticable enough:

Another variant is yellow semi-shield, also already existing:

B. if you want to keep it as black bubble - swap it into more visually-satisfying combination of 2d+3d bubble that less performance-draining , such as psijic shield here it has auto-rotating to camera pov halo effect to represent its borders:

All the self-bubble effects has such visualization even for black bubbles to being more visible but not overloaded and being centric on character as source of bubble, here is small compilation:

2. Its additional effects no longer affected by Enduring Rays passive which is goes against how similar skills interact with respective passive for other classes or how it was working before Eclipse overhaul:
A. When skill affected by such passive - it prolong duration of all effects of skill - for example Nova get prolongation of duration of skill itself and major maim too, not just longer duration of ult and not affect bonus.
B. Before Core overhaul this prolongation was pain point of morph because it was prolonging duration of bomb and thus decreased its dps drastically. Then it was excluded from prolongation but then again included because as I said - passives should prolong all effects of skill. And while this pain point was fixed as no longer bomb to be prolenged - for some reason none of morphs effect get prolongation of its effect. Duration of root/stun should prolong with passive leveled to 3/4/5sec.

3. Power level of Living Dark is terrible. Its swap to reliability in exchange of healing strength made it only worse.
Even when theoretically its like 39% stronger than resto staff Regeneration, its too conditional proc is making it literally unnoticeable heal, forcing skill to be just a root spam ability.
This is recap of 2hours duo pvp on noCP:

^^There is literally no noticeable survivability boost this morph provide now apart from triggering enemy rage coz its root. It unability to proc on direct channeled attacks/procsets or at least first ticks of dots in addition to this skill terribly scaling, reducing its usefulness too much. In PvE it barely even proc coz a lot of mobs attacks are not triggering it.
Couple ideas:
1. Fix so it actually reliably proc.
2. Reduce heal for another 25% but remove cooldown for heal so it actually scales.
3. Change it into something different like "darkness protects you and block 4 next direct damage attacks, lashing back with X effect" Will still only proc on direct attacks (this type of attacks can be blocked and thus wont break rule), effectiveness will scale on amount of attacks.

4. Cost - it cost wasn't audited to match similar skills.
Since zos wants this morph being some sort of scaled defensive buff that last for 6sec - it puts it exactly in category of Crystal Shield and Scales. Base cost of those skill is 3780 while Living Dark is 4320, far from being standardized to similar effects. Even if taking morph as some weirdo version of Dark Cloak coz equal duration and duable effect of healing + bonus - Dark Cloak base cost is 4050, once again far less than Living Dark.

5. Unstable Core - just terrible CC now. In theory it was interesting implementation but on practice morph, especially in its disfunctional state of not procing damage when target immune to status effect of stage. Sicne we already have Toppling and Aurora Javelin - just fully standardizes both morphs of Eclipse to be self-buff, where Core if more offensive.



6. Charge: it still very annoying how this skill fail to activate because of small altitude differences on stairs or coz some invisible textures especially around builds:

https://youtu.be/5nIyJ2LfZyY

Saril_Durzam

One of the things that should change. Let the sweeps area also work a bit behind your character. Due lag sometimes is very easy to move too further and lose ticks or even the entire attack.

Also, we could use some few more ranged options, but i understand that those options are now general class dots.

Vapirko

Im just gonna drop in every so often and advocate for Explosive Charge to be made into a stamina gap closer. Before anyone says "but you've got two weapon line gap closers," the DW gap closer is probably the worst idea in the history of ESO and the 2H gap closer, while fine for the cost, pales in comparison to something like Toppling Charge with its off balance. In fact it's so much better that a lot of Stamplars, myself included, do use Toppling Charge. I will say that Stamplars are doing better than they have been, but this is one of their main issues. We have to draw from sooo many sources to get enough damage and offensive utility to be viable. With most classes I feel like I get to use sets that I want to use because I have the tools I need in my kit. With stamplar it's the opposite. You start with nothing and have to build for almost everything. You've gotta think do I want higher weapon damage or do I want major fracture, do I want a high recovery build? Then I'm gonna sacrifice a decent magicka pool. If I want the mag pool Im gonna be toeing the line of just enough regen. Tbh Im fine with it, except that this is not the norm. Only stam sorcs have to deal with this same problem. This is why Stamplars are great in a group but aren't that high up when it comes to duels or solo play. And tbh its not like we really can output more pressure or have any more burst than say Stamden. I dont want to sound to whiney, Im actually more or less happy with where my Stamplar is now. But I do hope that when they move on to looking at the uniqueness of classes that Stamplar gets a little more wiggle room.

Also cant agree more with @Cinbri about making some changes to jabs so that the targeting is more reliable. However, in making the comparison to flurry, jabs feels faster and more fluid despite its shortcomings. I would not want jabs to feel the way flurry does which is kind of chunky.

No_Division

Vapirko wrote: »

Im just gonna drop in every so often and advocate for Explosive Charge to be made into a stamina gap closer. Before anyone says "but you've got two weapon line gap closers," the DW gap closer is probably the worst idea in the history of ESO and the 2H gap closer, while fine for the cost, pales in comparison to something like Toppling Charge with its off balance. In fact it's so much better that a lot of Stamplars, myself included, do use Toppling Charge. I will say that Stamplars are doing better than they have been, but this is one of their main issues. We have to draw from sooo many sources to get enough damage and offensive utility to be viable. With most classes I feel like I get to use sets that I want to use because I have the tools I need in my kit. With stamplar it's the opposite. You start with nothing and have to build for almost everything. You've gotta think do I want higher weapon damage or do I want major fracture, do I want a high recovery build? Then I'm gonna sacrifice a decent magicka pool. If I want the mag pool Im gonna be toeing the line of just enough regen. Tbh Im fine with it, except that this is not the norm. Only stam sorcs have to deal with this same problem. This is why Stamplars are great in a group but aren't that high up when it comes to duels or solo play. And tbh its not like we really can output more pressure or have any more burst than say Stamden. I dont want to sound to whiney, Im actually more or less happy with where my Stamplar is now. But I do hope that when they move on to looking at the uniqueness of classes that Stamplar gets a little more wiggle room.

Also cant agree more with @Cinbri about making some changes to jabs so that the targeting is more reliable. However, in making the comparison to flurry, jabs feels faster and more fluid despite its shortcomings. I would not want jabs to feel the way flurry does which is kind of chunky.

toppling, despite being mag cost+mag dmg, serves this function for stam morph now that its always grants off balance allowing synergy with Truth set. Getting 300-400 WD just for hitting a gap closer that stuns, is VERY attractive that some stamplars noted as liking last patch.

and with jabs no longer being double mitigated, jabs/sweeps is more potent as a dmg source.

Vapirko

No_Division wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Im just gonna drop in every so often and advocate for Explosive Charge to be made into a stamina gap closer. Before anyone says "but you've got two weapon line gap closers," the DW gap closer is probably the worst idea in the history of ESO and the 2H gap closer, while fine for the cost, pales in comparison to something like Toppling Charge with its off balance. In fact it's so much better that a lot of Stamplars, myself included, do use Toppling Charge. I will say that Stamplars are doing better than they have been, but this is one of their main issues. We have to draw from sooo many sources to get enough damage and offensive utility to be viable. With most classes I feel like I get to use sets that I want to use because I have the tools I need in my kit. With stamplar it's the opposite. You start with nothing and have to build for almost everything. You've gotta think do I want higher weapon damage or do I want major fracture, do I want a high recovery build? Then I'm gonna sacrifice a decent magicka pool. If I want the mag pool Im gonna be toeing the line of just enough regen. Tbh Im fine with it, except that this is not the norm. Only stam sorcs have to deal with this same problem. This is why Stamplars are great in a group but aren't that high up when it comes to duels or solo play. And tbh its not like we really can output more pressure or have any more burst than say Stamden. I dont want to sound to whiney, Im actually more or less happy with where my Stamplar is now. But I do hope that when they move on to looking at the uniqueness of classes that Stamplar gets a little more wiggle room.

Also cant agree more with @Cinbri about making some changes to jabs so that the targeting is more reliable. However, in making the comparison to flurry, jabs feels faster and more fluid despite its shortcomings. I would not want jabs to feel the way flurry does which is kind of chunky.

toppling, despite being mag cost+mag dmg, serves this function for stam morph now that its always grants off balance allowing synergy with Truth set. Getting 300-400 WD just for hitting a gap closer that stuns, is VERY attractive that some stamplars noted as liking last patch.

and with jabs no longer being double mitigated, jabs/sweeps is more potent as a dmg source.

It’s usable on stam for sure. But it’s not the “stam morph.” Magplars use it. Explosive goes pretty much unused. Stamina uses it because the other options are quite weak. But you have to maintain about a 16k mag pool to use it. That’s fine but it means there’s really only one armor/food combo that does it and leaves you with enough stam recovery. So now you’re sacrificing an armor set and food choice as well as a skill that does physical damage and using a large chunk of magicka just to use toppling charge. Plus it doesn’t really serve as a gap closer, it’s more of just a CC, because you can only afford to use it once strategically. If you’ve got a sorc streaking around then maintaining melee range will see you out of mag in no time. So, I have to straight up disagree with you that it serves the purpose of a stamina morph. It’s still entirely a magicka morph that Stamplars are just making use of because, as I said before, we’re forced to draw from a ton of places to be viable.