[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread
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Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭As someone who hasn't played this game in a year and a half, how are Dragonknights (both Mag and Stam) doing in PvE and PvP nowadays? What have been the changes?
In pvp Stamdks, outside of 7th-fury-SnB + Corrosive armor are still a joke. They are barely above viable for general pvp and good at 1v1 with that setup, but at that point why not use literally any other class with 7th-fury? They're going to do better in everything, outside of 1v1 fights. There's no point in using the class, especially now that it's even more forced to run SnB or DW cause Uppercut got nerfed.
lol...
no.
i don't think my medium build is a joke. works fine last night. spent couple hours at Kalgrontiid. 95k AP just spamming Dizzying and fooling around the map.August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber0 -
Beffagorn✭✭✭As someone who hasn't played this game in a year and a half, how are Dragonknights (both Mag and Stam) doing in PvE and PvP nowadays? What have been the changes?
In pvp Stamdks, outside of 7th-fury-SnB + Corrosive armor are still a joke. They are barely above viable for general pvp and good at 1v1 with that setup, but at that point why not use literally any other class with 7th-fury? They're going to do better in everything, outside of 1v1 fights. There's no point in using the class, especially now that it's even more forced to run SnB or DW cause Uppercut got nerfed.
lol...
no.
i don't think my medium build is a joke. works fine last night. spent couple hours at Kalgrontiid. 95k AP just spamming Dizzying and fooling around the map.
There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever. Everything you did could have been done better on any other class, especially Stamplar, Stamden and Stamblade.
There's no skills or passives in the entire dk kit that encourages using anything other else other than Heavy Snb/DW +2h.
We have nothing to capitalize on the crit passive, no use for stealth and once again no mobility or regen to make effective use of the dodge roll/sprint passive. The only thing we get out of medium that actually makes a difference for stamdk is weapon damage and it's still less useful compared to other classes since we have no burst ability in our entire kit (No shalks, no grim focus, no power of the light)
Until this class gets an entire rework (Which, btw, is never going to happen) this class is going to be pigeonholed into using the same 7th-fury SnB we've been using for the past 2 years.
If you haven't tried, i suggest you try that same build on a stamblade or a stamplar and see how much difference there is between those classes and stamdk in medium.Edited by Beffagorn on May 27, 2019 9:27AM2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As someone who hasn't played this game in a year and a half, how are Dragonknights (both Mag and Stam) doing in PvE and PvP nowadays? What have been the changes?
In pvp Stamdks, outside of 7th-fury-SnB + Corrosive armor are still a joke. They are barely above viable for general pvp and good at 1v1 with that setup, but at that point why not use literally any other class with 7th-fury? They're going to do better in everything, outside of 1v1 fights. There's no point in using the class, especially now that it's even more forced to run SnB or DW cause Uppercut got nerfed.
lol...
no.
i don't think my medium build is a joke. works fine last night. spent couple hours at Kalgrontiid. 95k AP just spamming Dizzying and fooling around the map.
There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever. Everything you did could have been done better on any other class, especially Stamplar, Stamden and Stamblade.
There's no skills or passives in the entire dk kit that encourages using anything other else other than Heavy Snb/DW +2h.
We have nothing to capitalize on the crit passive, no use for stealth and once again no mobility or regen to make effective use of the dodge roll/sprint passive. The only thing we get out of medium that actually makes a difference for stamdk is weapon damage and it's still less useful compared to other classes since we have no burst ability in our entire kit (No shalks, no grim focus, no power of the light)
Until this class gets an entire rework (Which, btw, is never going to happen) this class is going to be pigeonholed into using the same 7th-fury SnB we've been using for the past 2 years.
If you haven't tried, i suggest you try that same build on a stamblade or a stamplar and see how much difference there is between those classes and stamdk in medium.
Thats a specific issue to medium armor. Dk always had a better synergy with heavy armor. Problem with medium is that on paper it should give you sustain, damage and mobility but it fails at all of those things.0 -
Beffagorn✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »As someone who hasn't played this game in a year and a half, how are Dragonknights (both Mag and Stam) doing in PvE and PvP nowadays? What have been the changes?
In pvp Stamdks, outside of 7th-fury-SnB + Corrosive armor are still a joke. They are barely above viable for general pvp and good at 1v1 with that setup, but at that point why not use literally any other class with 7th-fury? They're going to do better in everything, outside of 1v1 fights. There's no point in using the class, especially now that it's even more forced to run SnB or DW cause Uppercut got nerfed.
lol...
no.
i don't think my medium build is a joke. works fine last night. spent couple hours at Kalgrontiid. 95k AP just spamming Dizzying and fooling around the map.
There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever. Everything you did could have been done better on any other class, especially Stamplar, Stamden and Stamblade.
There's no skills or passives in the entire dk kit that encourages using anything other else other than Heavy Snb/DW +2h.
We have nothing to capitalize on the crit passive, no use for stealth and once again no mobility or regen to make effective use of the dodge roll/sprint passive. The only thing we get out of medium that actually makes a difference for stamdk is weapon damage and it's still less useful compared to other classes since we have no burst ability in our entire kit (No shalks, no grim focus, no power of the light)
Until this class gets an entire rework (Which, btw, is never going to happen) this class is going to be pigeonholed into using the same 7th-fury SnB we've been using for the past 2 years.
If you haven't tried, i suggest you try that same build on a stamblade or a stamplar and see how much difference there is between those classes and stamdk in medium.
Thats a specific issue to medium armor. Dk always had a better synergy with heavy armor. Problem with medium is that on paper it should give you sustain, damage and mobility but it fails at all of those things.
I don't think it fails in any of those things.
There's a propaganda against heavy armor being op in everything and making your character godlike started by gankblades and zerglings that can't even gank an afk player or get dumpstered in a Xv1. Next, there's skills like Dawnbreaker that can't be dodged and are stupidly overpowered.
There's not much we can do about the zerglings screaming for idiotic changes, but just by nerfing Dawnbreaker there's going to be less reason for heavy armor's passive mitigation while making medium armor's active mitigation much better.3 -
caperon✭✭✭✭As for pve, you're forced to double bar the new whip to increase your weapon damage and use noxious breath as your spammable... That should tell you how much of a clown fiesta this class has become. The dps isn't horrible, but i honestly refuse to play using a double barred mag spammable.
You don't need to use Noxious as spamable. You can have a fixed rotation without gimmicks and mantain seething fury x3 95%+ uptime. You also can not slot whip on backbar and keep seething fury with extra barswaps while in bow bar, the same as wardens do with subterranian assault. It will help keeping advancing yokeda if you still use it (stil a great set).
People is allways compaining, but pve wise stamdk is back from the gutter, on par with nb and wardens when last patch was clearly worse. Its not class fault that stamnecro have an OP ultimate (will get nerfed eventually) so groups will end with 6+ necros.
Yes, i agree that seething fury should be on ardent flame passives instead of whip, but come on, stop complaining and play a bit, experiment with rotations and learn that stamdk in pve is alive and well.Edited by caperon on May 27, 2019 10:18AM1 -
phantasmalD✭✭✭✭✭Regarding the new immobilization immunity: this pretty much solidifies Ignite as the worst synergy in the game imo.
It has like the second lowest availabilty time (4s), small range, can only be placed and activated in close quarters, was already unusable in boss fights, has a target cap (as it only affects the 6 immobilized target) and because of that it's pretty much the lowest damage synergy in the game as other damage synergies have no target cap afaik(?). And now it can also only be applied on a group of six enemies every 7-8 seconds.
It pretty much contradicts the meaning of the word 'synergy' as this is the only one that can actively get denied by your teammates and combos negatively with other skills; any other immobilizing move, including this skill itself makes it unappliable for a few seconds.
Also notable as another case of negative interraction between DKs.
So far the list for that afaik is:
- Obsidian Shield: The newer shield overwrites the older one, so you can replace a small shield with an even smaller one (unrelated but the shield is really pitifully small unless you are a big hp tank and even then it's kinda meh)
- Obsidian Shard/Fossilize/other stun abilities vs Unrelenting Grip: stunned enemies can't be pulled. This isn't a unique interraction between two DKs but still.
- And now Talons; let's assume for a second that Burning Talons isn't hot garbage and magDKs would actually use it: now a DK tank can deny the higher damage synergy being applied.
- Haven't tested it but can Shackle (Dragonknight Standard synergy) be applied to immobilization immune targets? Because if not then there's another negative synergy for you, Ignite stops Shackle and vice versa
I don't think there are any other classes that can screw their own class over. I mean yeah, there are cases of redudancy where they apply the same buffs and stuff but they don't actively hinder eachother.
The one notable example was Templars stealing corpses (Repentance) but that was explicitly changed to stop this negative interraction. This issue was specifically taken into consideration when Necromancer was designed so they also can't steal eachother's corpses afaik.
Also the synergy opportunities for classes in general deserve a look, a huge reason why Templars have a chokehold on the healer position is not really because of their healing output but because they have three easily applicable synergies that are (mostly) available for all possible roles.Edited by phantasmalD on May 27, 2019 7:26PM2 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭As someone who hasn't played this game in a year and a half, how are Dragonknights (both Mag and Stam) doing in PvE and PvP nowadays? What have been the changes?
In pvp Stamdks, outside of 7th-fury-SnB + Corrosive armor are still a joke. They are barely above viable for general pvp and good at 1v1 with that setup, but at that point why not use literally any other class with 7th-fury? They're going to do better in everything, outside of 1v1 fights. There's no point in using the class, especially now that it's even more forced to run SnB or DW cause Uppercut got nerfed.
lol...
no.
i don't think my medium build is a joke. works fine last night. spent couple hours at Kalgrontiid. 95k AP just spamming Dizzying and fooling around the map.
There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever. Everything you did could have been done better on any other class, especially Stamplar, Stamden and Stamblade.
There's no skills or passives in the entire dk kit that encourages using anything other else other than Heavy Snb/DW +2h.
We have nothing to capitalize on the crit passive, no use for stealth and once again no mobility or regen to make effective use of the dodge roll/sprint passive. The only thing we get out of medium that actually makes a difference for stamdk is weapon damage and it's still less useful compared to other classes since we have no burst ability in our entire kit (No shalks, no grim focus, no power of the light)
Until this class gets an entire rework (Which, btw, is never going to happen) this class is going to be pigeonholed into using the same 7th-fury SnB we've been using for the past 2 years.
If you haven't tried, i suggest you try that same build on a stamblade or a stamplar and see how much difference there is between those classes and stamdk in medium.
I have a stamDen on medium and he really wrecks stuff. but my DK is my main, and he's the one i intended to keep playing on.
And say what u want, after years of swapping 7th/Fury heavy, 7th/Spriggan heavy, Agility Set (just PvP stuff, I have gold PvE stuff too), I have to say, it DOES make a difference when *I* go medium. I'm not saying DK should wear mediums, but for me, it's better than heavy. Trust me, I have couple hours on different setup, around 17 builds using Bandit's dressing room add-on just for PvP.... Skoria vs Troll King vs Bloodspawn vs Selene vs Domihouse, Earthgore, you name it....
So, while I do not claim this is IT for DK, but for me..... here's a few things:
1. DoT build and Deadly Strike.
2. I roll-dodge a lot.
3. My CP makes if I dodged an attack, dude becomes out of balance, and my attack hits 10% harder. (just put min 120 on the middle and right blue)
I'm not a good dueler (Corrosive is too slow to build, and I'm using a Nord with Bloodspawn... and I'm using Spriggan), but ever since I'm on a medium build, I won my fair share of duel/1vX against 7th/Fury Heavy DK with DoT pressure and Fossilize.
So yes, there's no skill/passive for a DK, but damage is damage. Do I hit harder when I'm on medium? Well yes.
I can't capitalize on stuff, and I'm WAY tankier when I'm on a heavy.... and yes, we don't have a spammable and we're not a burst... and YES heavy DK is more "optimized" for the class.........
....but my personal build have been proven with my playstyle that I kill more people, and faster, so I end up more effective on medium set.
Look, I run around Deadly Strike med build spin-to-win before Alcast come up with similar build.
Now, in Elsewyr, hell, I'm on 2H/2H build with Spriggan Maul on my burst bar, and Master Axe/Carve on the AoE bar.... (Have u tried Dizzying Swing in Cyrodiil now? spammable.)
TLDR; other class benefits more wearing medium, but to say "there's no reason for DK to use medium" is flat out wrong.Edited by Davadin on May 27, 2019 2:04PMAugust Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber2 -
Beffagorn✭✭✭As someone who hasn't played this game in a year and a half, how are Dragonknights (both Mag and Stam) doing in PvE and PvP nowadays? What have been the changes?
In pvp Stamdks, outside of 7th-fury-SnB + Corrosive armor are still a joke. They are barely above viable for general pvp and good at 1v1 with that setup, but at that point why not use literally any other class with 7th-fury? They're going to do better in everything, outside of 1v1 fights. There's no point in using the class, especially now that it's even more forced to run SnB or DW cause Uppercut got nerfed.
lol...
no.
i don't think my medium build is a joke. works fine last night. spent couple hours at Kalgrontiid. 95k AP just spamming Dizzying and fooling around the map.
There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever. Everything you did could have been done better on any other class, especially Stamplar, Stamden and Stamblade.
There's no skills or passives in the entire dk kit that encourages using anything other else other than Heavy Snb/DW +2h.
We have nothing to capitalize on the crit passive, no use for stealth and once again no mobility or regen to make effective use of the dodge roll/sprint passive. The only thing we get out of medium that actually makes a difference for stamdk is weapon damage and it's still less useful compared to other classes since we have no burst ability in our entire kit (No shalks, no grim focus, no power of the light)
Until this class gets an entire rework (Which, btw, is never going to happen) this class is going to be pigeonholed into using the same 7th-fury SnB we've been using for the past 2 years.
If you haven't tried, i suggest you try that same build on a stamblade or a stamplar and see how much difference there is between those classes and stamdk in medium.
I have a stamDen on medium and he really wrecks stuff. but my DK is my main, and he's the one i intended to keep playing on.
And say what u want, after years of swapping 7th/Fury heavy, 7th/Spriggan heavy, Agility Set (just PvP stuff, I have gold PvE stuff too), I have to say, it DOES make a difference when *I* go medium. I'm not saying DK should wear mediums, but for me, it's better than heavy. Trust me, I have couple hours on different setup, around 17 builds using Bandit's dressing room add-on just for PvP.... Skoria vs Troll King vs Bloodspawn vs Selene vs Domihouse, Earthgore, you name it....
So, while I do not claim this is IT for DK, but for me..... here's a few things:
1. DoT build and Deadly Strike.
2. I roll-dodge a lot.
3. My CP makes if I dodged an attack, dude becomes out of balance, and my attack hits 10% harder. (just put min 120 on the middle and right blue)
I'm not a good dueler (Corrosive is too slow to build, and I'm using a Nord with Bloodspawn... and I'm using Spriggan), but ever since I'm on a medium build, I won my fair share of duel/1vX against 7th/Fury Heavy DK with DoT pressure and Fossilize.
So yes, there's no skill/passive for a DK, but damage is damage. Do I hit harder when I'm on medium? Well yes.
I can't capitalize on stuff, and I'm WAY tankier when I'm on a heavy.... and yes, we don't have a spammable and we're not a burst... and YES heavy DK is more "optimized" for the class.........
....but my personal build have been proven with my playstyle that I kill more people, and faster, so I end up more effective on medium set.
Look, I run around Deadly Strike med build spin-to-win before Alcast come up with similar build.
Now, in Elsewyr, hell, I'm on 2H/2H build with Spriggan Maul on my burst bar, and Master Axe/Carve on the AoE bar.... (Have u tried Dizzying Swing in Cyrodiil now? spammable.)
TLDR; other class benefits more wearing medium, but to say "there's no reason for DK to use medium" is flat out wrong.
Let's just agree to disagree. I've tried med stamdk and i see no point in using it if i can clearly do better on med stamplar or other stams.As for pve, you're forced to double bar the new whip to increase your weapon damage and use noxious breath as your spammable... That should tell you how much of a clown fiesta this class has become. The dps isn't horrible, but i honestly refuse to play using a double barred mag spammable.
You don't need to use Noxious as spamable. You can have a fixed rotation without gimmicks and mantain seething fury x3 95%+ uptime. You also can not slot whip on backbar and keep seething fury with extra barswaps while in bow bar, the same as wardens do with subterranian assault. It will help keeping advancing yokeda if you still use it (stil a great set).
People is allways compaining, but pve wise stamdk is back from the gutter, on par with nb and wardens when last patch was clearly worse. Its not class fault that stamnecro have an OP ultimate (will get nerfed eventually) so groups will end with 6+ necros.
Yes, i agree that seething fury should be on ardent flame passives instead of whip, but come on, stop complaining and play a bit, experiment with rotations and learn that stamdk in pve is alive and well.
I never said stamdk is dead in pve, i said that having to slot a mag spammable on a stam character for seething fury is ridicolous. Also, you can use a build without noxious as a spammable, but it's going to be weaker than one using it.
There's a limit on how much BS i can endure. A mag spammable + using a dot as spammable (after Claw got changed to not be used as one) is too much for me.
1 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭As someone who hasn't played this game in a year and a half, how are Dragonknights (both Mag and Stam) doing in PvE and PvP nowadays? What have been the changes?
In pvp Stamdks, outside of 7th-fury-SnB + Corrosive armor are still a joke. They are barely above viable for general pvp and good at 1v1 with that setup, but at that point why not use literally any other class with 7th-fury? They're going to do better in everything, outside of 1v1 fights. There's no point in using the class, especially now that it's even more forced to run SnB or DW cause Uppercut got nerfed.
lol...
no.
i don't think my medium build is a joke. works fine last night. spent couple hours at Kalgrontiid. 95k AP just spamming Dizzying and fooling around the map.
There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever. Everything you did could have been done better on any other class, especially Stamplar, Stamden and Stamblade.
There's no skills or passives in the entire dk kit that encourages using anything other else other than Heavy Snb/DW +2h.
We have nothing to capitalize on the crit passive, no use for stealth and once again no mobility or regen to make effective use of the dodge roll/sprint passive. The only thing we get out of medium that actually makes a difference for stamdk is weapon damage and it's still less useful compared to other classes since we have no burst ability in our entire kit (No shalks, no grim focus, no power of the light)
Until this class gets an entire rework (Which, btw, is never going to happen) this class is going to be pigeonholed into using the same 7th-fury SnB we've been using for the past 2 years.
If you haven't tried, i suggest you try that same build on a stamblade or a stamplar and see how much difference there is between those classes and stamdk in medium.
I have a stamDen on medium and he really wrecks stuff. but my DK is my main, and he's the one i intended to keep playing on.
And say what u want, after years of swapping 7th/Fury heavy, 7th/Spriggan heavy, Agility Set (just PvP stuff, I have gold PvE stuff too), I have to say, it DOES make a difference when *I* go medium. I'm not saying DK should wear mediums, but for me, it's better than heavy. Trust me, I have couple hours on different setup, around 17 builds using Bandit's dressing room add-on just for PvP.... Skoria vs Troll King vs Bloodspawn vs Selene vs Domihouse, Earthgore, you name it....
So, while I do not claim this is IT for DK, but for me..... here's a few things:
1. DoT build and Deadly Strike.
2. I roll-dodge a lot.
3. My CP makes if I dodged an attack, dude becomes out of balance, and my attack hits 10% harder. (just put min 120 on the middle and right blue)
I'm not a good dueler (Corrosive is too slow to build, and I'm using a Nord with Bloodspawn... and I'm using Spriggan), but ever since I'm on a medium build, I won my fair share of duel/1vX against 7th/Fury Heavy DK with DoT pressure and Fossilize.
So yes, there's no skill/passive for a DK, but damage is damage. Do I hit harder when I'm on medium? Well yes.
I can't capitalize on stuff, and I'm WAY tankier when I'm on a heavy.... and yes, we don't have a spammable and we're not a burst... and YES heavy DK is more "optimized" for the class.........
....but my personal build have been proven with my playstyle that I kill more people, and faster, so I end up more effective on medium set.
Look, I run around Deadly Strike med build spin-to-win before Alcast come up with similar build.
Now, in Elsewyr, hell, I'm on 2H/2H build with Spriggan Maul on my burst bar, and Master Axe/Carve on the AoE bar.... (Have u tried Dizzying Swing in Cyrodiil now? spammable.)
TLDR; other class benefits more wearing medium, but to say "there's no reason for DK to use medium" is flat out wrong.
Let's just agree to disagree. I've tried med stamdk and i see no point in using it if i can clearly do better on med stamplar or other stams.
nothing to disagree there. other class do med better. that's a fact.
but like hell im creating a new char and build up all the gears all over again JUST so i can... use med armor? lol
no, seriously. i dont understand ur logic - nothing's wrong with it, u play how u want it - but what do u mean if u can do better on med stamplar/stamden, then stamDK... have no point using med?
sure i suppose if u have other toons and want ur DK to use the "BiS" set.
only thing i disagree is ur claiming that every DK should use heavy.There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever
i hope u'd consider making that claim for everyone.
because there is at least one reason. and that is to hit harder. with a bit of practice, med stamDK can take on heavy ones, no problem.Edited by Davadin on May 27, 2019 4:12PMAugust Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber1 -
caperon✭✭✭✭As for pve, you're forced to double bar the new whip to increase your weapon damage and use noxious breath as your spammable... That should tell you how much of a clown fiesta this class has become. The dps isn't horrible, but i honestly refuse to play using a double barred mag spammable.
You don't need to use Noxious as spamable. You can have a fixed rotation without gimmicks and mantain seething fury x3 95%+ uptime. You also can not slot whip on backbar and keep seething fury with extra barswaps while in bow bar, the same as wardens do with subterranian assault. It will help keeping advancing yokeda if you still use it (stil a great set).
People is allways compaining, but pve wise stamdk is back from the gutter, on par with nb and wardens when last patch was clearly worse. Its not class fault that stamnecro have an OP ultimate (will get nerfed eventually) so groups will end with 6+ necros.
Yes, i agree that seething fury should be on ardent flame passives instead of whip, but come on, stop complaining and play a bit, experiment with rotations and learn that stamdk in pve is alive and well.
I never said stamdk is dead in pve, i said that having to slot a mag spammable on a stam character for seething fury is ridicolous. Also, you can use a build without noxious as a spammable, but it's going to be weaker than one using it.
There's a limit on how much BS i can endure. A mag spammable + using a dot as spammable (after Claw got changed to not be used as one) is too much for me.
And what is wrong in sloting skills only for the passives? It has been done forever with inner light, bound armaments, fighter guild skills, warden wings, aedric spear skills...
Weaker how? Less dps? I very much doubt that noxious breath direct damage portion beats rapid strikes, that even benefits from execute passives in dual wield. Is there any evidence of that? Honest question because looking around for some actual tests, the best results i saw (Liko) was using vma weapons, a rotation that "spams" rapids, not noxious.
I have my own tests, some posted in this same thread too.Edited by caperon on May 27, 2019 4:29PM0 -
Gordon906✭✭✭Buff the shields to make it more tanky. I'm just a pve tank, and that would be helpful.0 -
Beffagorn✭✭✭As for pve, you're forced to double bar the new whip to increase your weapon damage and use noxious breath as your spammable... That should tell you how much of a clown fiesta this class has become. The dps isn't horrible, but i honestly refuse to play using a double barred mag spammable.
You don't need to use Noxious as spamable. You can have a fixed rotation without gimmicks and mantain seething fury x3 95%+ uptime. You also can not slot whip on backbar and keep seething fury with extra barswaps while in bow bar, the same as wardens do with subterranian assault. It will help keeping advancing yokeda if you still use it (stil a great set).
People is allways compaining, but pve wise stamdk is back from the gutter, on par with nb and wardens when last patch was clearly worse. Its not class fault that stamnecro have an OP ultimate (will get nerfed eventually) so groups will end with 6+ necros.
Yes, i agree that seething fury should be on ardent flame passives instead of whip, but come on, stop complaining and play a bit, experiment with rotations and learn that stamdk in pve is alive and well.
I never said stamdk is dead in pve, i said that having to slot a mag spammable on a stam character for seething fury is ridicolous. Also, you can use a build without noxious as a spammable, but it's going to be weaker than one using it.
There's a limit on how much BS i can endure. A mag spammable + using a dot as spammable (after Claw got changed to not be used as one) is too much for me.
And what is wrong in sloting skills only for the passives? It has been done forever with inner light, bound armaments, fighter guild skills, warden wings, aedric spear skills...
Weaker how? Less dps? I very much doubt that noxious breath direct damage portion beats rapid strikes, that even benefits from execute passives in dual wield. Is there any evidence of that? Honest question because looking around for some actual tests, the best results i saw (Liko) was using vma weapons, a rotation that "spams" rapids, not noxious.
I have my own tests, some posted in this same thread too.
There's a difference between using something like Bound Armaments or Expert Hunter or Magelight for the passives and using a magicka spammable for a buff, a big difference. One is supposed to be used like that, the other not so much... if they wanted to give a passive component to dks, that should've been on a passive skill, not a mag spammable.
I'm not that much experienced in pve, but last i checked, using obnoxious breath as spammable resulted in the best dps and better sustain due to combustion and world in ruin. The parses were being discussed on the forums around the time of the 2nd PTS cycle. After that, i stopped caring completely.As someone who hasn't played this game in a year and a half, how are Dragonknights (both Mag and Stam) doing in PvE and PvP nowadays? What have been the changes?
In pvp Stamdks, outside of 7th-fury-SnB + Corrosive armor are still a joke. They are barely above viable for general pvp and good at 1v1 with that setup, but at that point why not use literally any other class with 7th-fury? They're going to do better in everything, outside of 1v1 fights. There's no point in using the class, especially now that it's even more forced to run SnB or DW cause Uppercut got nerfed.
lol...
no.
i don't think my medium build is a joke. works fine last night. spent couple hours at Kalgrontiid. 95k AP just spamming Dizzying and fooling around the map.
There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever. Everything you did could have been done better on any other class, especially Stamplar, Stamden and Stamblade.
There's no skills or passives in the entire dk kit that encourages using anything other else other than Heavy Snb/DW +2h.
We have nothing to capitalize on the crit passive, no use for stealth and once again no mobility or regen to make effective use of the dodge roll/sprint passive. The only thing we get out of medium that actually makes a difference for stamdk is weapon damage and it's still less useful compared to other classes since we have no burst ability in our entire kit (No shalks, no grim focus, no power of the light)
Until this class gets an entire rework (Which, btw, is never going to happen) this class is going to be pigeonholed into using the same 7th-fury SnB we've been using for the past 2 years.
If you haven't tried, i suggest you try that same build on a stamblade or a stamplar and see how much difference there is between those classes and stamdk in medium.
I have a stamDen on medium and he really wrecks stuff. but my DK is my main, and he's the one i intended to keep playing on.
And say what u want, after years of swapping 7th/Fury heavy, 7th/Spriggan heavy, Agility Set (just PvP stuff, I have gold PvE stuff too), I have to say, it DOES make a difference when *I* go medium. I'm not saying DK should wear mediums, but for me, it's better than heavy. Trust me, I have couple hours on different setup, around 17 builds using Bandit's dressing room add-on just for PvP.... Skoria vs Troll King vs Bloodspawn vs Selene vs Domihouse, Earthgore, you name it....
So, while I do not claim this is IT for DK, but for me..... here's a few things:
1. DoT build and Deadly Strike.
2. I roll-dodge a lot.
3. My CP makes if I dodged an attack, dude becomes out of balance, and my attack hits 10% harder. (just put min 120 on the middle and right blue)
I'm not a good dueler (Corrosive is too slow to build, and I'm using a Nord with Bloodspawn... and I'm using Spriggan), but ever since I'm on a medium build, I won my fair share of duel/1vX against 7th/Fury Heavy DK with DoT pressure and Fossilize.
So yes, there's no skill/passive for a DK, but damage is damage. Do I hit harder when I'm on medium? Well yes.
I can't capitalize on stuff, and I'm WAY tankier when I'm on a heavy.... and yes, we don't have a spammable and we're not a burst... and YES heavy DK is more "optimized" for the class.........
....but my personal build have been proven with my playstyle that I kill more people, and faster, so I end up more effective on medium set.
Look, I run around Deadly Strike med build spin-to-win before Alcast come up with similar build.
Now, in Elsewyr, hell, I'm on 2H/2H build with Spriggan Maul on my burst bar, and Master Axe/Carve on the AoE bar.... (Have u tried Dizzying Swing in Cyrodiil now? spammable.)
TLDR; other class benefits more wearing medium, but to say "there's no reason for DK to use medium" is flat out wrong.
Let's just agree to disagree. I've tried med stamdk and i see no point in using it if i can clearly do better on med stamplar or other stams.
nothing to disagree there. other class do med better. that's a fact.
but like hell im creating a new char and build up all the gears all over again JUST so i can... use med armor? lol
no, seriously. i dont understand ur logic - nothing's wrong with it, u play how u want it - but what do u mean if u can do better on med stamplar/stamden, then stamDK... have no point using med?
sure i suppose if u have other toons and want ur DK to use the "BiS" set.
only thing i disagree is ur claiming that every DK should use heavy.There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever
i hope u'd consider making that claim for everyone.
because there is at least one reason. and that is to hit harder. with a bit of practice, med stamDK can take on heavy ones, no problem.
If i can use the exact same build and have far more success with one class (And said class being one i have much less experience with) over the other, i consider using that build on the class with weaker result pointless, hence why i think using medium on stamdk is useless.
I like minmaxing my builds for my playstyle and very rarely play with BiS or what is considered BiS, (My build is far from being BiS, but it works best on Stamdk) but i hate using a build that is clearly weaker on a character compared to another.
Also, i've never said every stam should run heavy, i said i consider medium stamdks pointless. There's a difference between claiming every Stamdk should play heavy and being realistic and knowing Stamdks are clearly inferior in medium compared to other classes.1 -
caperon✭✭✭✭There's a difference between using something like Bound Armaments or Expert Hunter or Magelight for the passives and using a magicka spammable for a buff, a big difference. One is supposed to be used like that, the other not so much... if they wanted to give a passive component to dks, that should've been on a passive skill, not a mag spammable.
I'm not that much experienced in pve, but last i checked, using obnoxious breath as spammable resulted in the best dps and better sustain due to combustion and world in ruin. The parses were being discussed on the forums around the time of the 2nd PTS cycle. After that, i stopped caring completely.
There is no efective diference. Treat the skills by what they are not by what they are "suposed" to be, and whip right now is a 375 weapon dmg buf for stam dk. [removed baiting comment]Edited by ZOS_JesC on May 28, 2019 12:37PM0 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭(StamDK)
A bunch of pages and what we got with elswhere chap is that we lost wings and got noxious breath as spammable instead of venomous claw.
Discussions need to be focused on single abilities, active an passive, 1 by 1 if we are to get changes happen slowly.
Take an ability, compared it with other classes and how it synergizes or does not in the DK toolkit and ask for a clear change.
Also call for a removal of 7th Veiled and Fury from the game. Yes it will hurt the only strong stamDK build, but then the class might be improved. Nothing to lose. It's boring at this point.
Problem is that not many people main stamDK and like having many different builds on a stamDK.
Edited by GeorgeBlack on May 28, 2019 11:16AM0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How people are defending the use of a *** AOE debuffing dot as a pseudo-spammable because of Molten Whip truly astounds me.2 -
Beffagorn✭✭✭How people are defending the use of a *** AOE debuffing dot as a pseudo-spammable because of Molten Whip truly astounds me.
Too many players can't see the big picture. This is especially true with pve dds, going full tunnel vision on their dps when it comes to balance changes.
Molten whip is indeed a buff to stamdk dps, but is it a buff to class identity and general class structure? No, it's the exact opposite and it shows how either clueless or apathetic the devs are when it comes to stamdk and the issues this class is facing
The same can be said about obnoxious breath. I'd like everyone to remember Claw was nerfed because IT'S NOT supposed to be used as a spammable, just like Molten Whip is NOT supposed to be used as a passive buff.
I've said this immediatly after reading the PTS notes: this is NOT going to end well for stamdks. Molten Whip and Obnoxious breath will get nerfed or Stamdk will get ignored once again and remain in this trainwreck status. Which one is worse? hard to tell.There is no efective diference. Treat the skills by what they are not by what they are "suposed" to be, and whip right now is a 375 weapon dmg buf for stam dk.
This statement is the perfect example of what i've just written. No big picture, pure tunnel vision on that phat 375 weapon damage.3 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How people are defending the use of a *** AOE debuffing dot as a pseudo-spammable because of Molten Whip truly astounds me.
Too many players can't see the big picture. This is especially true with pve dds, going full tunnel vision on their dps when it comes to balance changes.
Molten whip is indeed a buff to stamdk dps, but is it a buff to class identity and general class structure? No, it's the exact opposite and it shows how either clueless or apathetic the devs are when it comes to stamdk and the issues this class is facing
The same can be said about obnoxious breath. I'd like everyone to remember Claw was nerfed because IT'S NOT supposed to be used as a spammable, just like Molten Whip is NOT supposed to be used as a passive buff.
I've said this immediatly after reading the PTS notes: this is NOT going to end well for stamdks. Molten Whip and Obnoxious breath will get nerfed or Stamdk will get ignored once again and remain in this trainwreck status. Which one is worse? hard to tell.There is no efective diference. Treat the skills by what they are not by what they are "suposed" to be, and whip right now is a 375 weapon dmg buf for stam dk.
This statement is the perfect example of what i've just written. No big picture, pure tunnel vision on that phat 375 weapon damage.
It's not just stupid from a consistency standpoint, considering what happened this patch, it's also stupid from a gameplay standpoint, because it makes no sense for a damage-over-time skill to be a spammable, no matter how hard it hits or how well it synergises with another skill.
EDIT: Also want to point out, Noxious isn't alone in stupidity. Molten Whip is just as stupid for being a spammable, that pushes you into using other skills as spammables, to gain the secondary effect of your actual spammable. It's not a spammable, it's a *** damage proc that offers a phat passive weapon & spell damage bonus. We need to stop just drilling on Noxious being a stupid spammable, we need to drill on Molten Whip for having a stupid design that supports Noxious's stupidity.Edited by jcm2606 on May 28, 2019 12:08PM3 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭As for pve, you're forced to double bar the new whip to increase your weapon damage and use noxious breath as your spammable... That should tell you how much of a clown fiesta this class has become. The dps isn't horrible, but i honestly refuse to play using a double barred mag spammable.
You don't need to use Noxious as spamable. You can have a fixed rotation without gimmicks and mantain seething fury x3 95%+ uptime. You also can not slot whip on backbar and keep seething fury with extra barswaps while in bow bar, the same as wardens do with subterranian assault. It will help keeping advancing yokeda if you still use it (stil a great set).
People is allways compaining, but pve wise stamdk is back from the gutter, on par with nb and wardens when last patch was clearly worse. Its not class fault that stamnecro have an OP ultimate (will get nerfed eventually) so groups will end with 6+ necros.
Yes, i agree that seething fury should be on ardent flame passives instead of whip, but come on, stop complaining and play a bit, experiment with rotations and learn that stamdk in pve is alive and well.
I never said stamdk is dead in pve, i said that having to slot a mag spammable on a stam character for seething fury is ridicolous. Also, you can use a build without noxious as a spammable, but it's going to be weaker than one using it.
There's a limit on how much BS i can endure. A mag spammable + using a dot as spammable (after Claw got changed to not be used as one) is too much for me.
And what is wrong in sloting skills only for the passives? It has been done forever with inner light, bound armaments, fighter guild skills, warden wings, aedric spear skills...
Weaker how? Less dps? I very much doubt that noxious breath direct damage portion beats rapid strikes, that even benefits from execute passives in dual wield. Is there any evidence of that? Honest question because looking around for some actual tests, the best results i saw (Liko) was using vma weapons, a rotation that "spams" rapids, not noxious.
I have my own tests, some posted in this same thread too.
There's a difference between using something like Bound Armaments or Expert Hunter or Magelight for the passives and using a magicka spammable for a buff, a big difference. One is supposed to be used like that, the other not so much... if they wanted to give a passive component to dks, that should've been on a passive skill, not a mag spammable.
I'm not that much experienced in pve, but last i checked, using obnoxious breath as spammable resulted in the best dps and better sustain due to combustion and world in ruin. The parses were being discussed on the forums around the time of the 2nd PTS cycle. After that, i stopped caring completely.As someone who hasn't played this game in a year and a half, how are Dragonknights (both Mag and Stam) doing in PvE and PvP nowadays? What have been the changes?
In pvp Stamdks, outside of 7th-fury-SnB + Corrosive armor are still a joke. They are barely above viable for general pvp and good at 1v1 with that setup, but at that point why not use literally any other class with 7th-fury? They're going to do better in everything, outside of 1v1 fights. There's no point in using the class, especially now that it's even more forced to run SnB or DW cause Uppercut got nerfed.
lol...
no.
i don't think my medium build is a joke. works fine last night. spent couple hours at Kalgrontiid. 95k AP just spamming Dizzying and fooling around the map.
There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever. Everything you did could have been done better on any other class, especially Stamplar, Stamden and Stamblade.
There's no skills or passives in the entire dk kit that encourages using anything other else other than Heavy Snb/DW +2h.
We have nothing to capitalize on the crit passive, no use for stealth and once again no mobility or regen to make effective use of the dodge roll/sprint passive. The only thing we get out of medium that actually makes a difference for stamdk is weapon damage and it's still less useful compared to other classes since we have no burst ability in our entire kit (No shalks, no grim focus, no power of the light)
Until this class gets an entire rework (Which, btw, is never going to happen) this class is going to be pigeonholed into using the same 7th-fury SnB we've been using for the past 2 years.
If you haven't tried, i suggest you try that same build on a stamblade or a stamplar and see how much difference there is between those classes and stamdk in medium.
I have a stamDen on medium and he really wrecks stuff. but my DK is my main, and he's the one i intended to keep playing on.
And say what u want, after years of swapping 7th/Fury heavy, 7th/Spriggan heavy, Agility Set (just PvP stuff, I have gold PvE stuff too), I have to say, it DOES make a difference when *I* go medium. I'm not saying DK should wear mediums, but for me, it's better than heavy. Trust me, I have couple hours on different setup, around 17 builds using Bandit's dressing room add-on just for PvP.... Skoria vs Troll King vs Bloodspawn vs Selene vs Domihouse, Earthgore, you name it....
So, while I do not claim this is IT for DK, but for me..... here's a few things:
1. DoT build and Deadly Strike.
2. I roll-dodge a lot.
3. My CP makes if I dodged an attack, dude becomes out of balance, and my attack hits 10% harder. (just put min 120 on the middle and right blue)
I'm not a good dueler (Corrosive is too slow to build, and I'm using a Nord with Bloodspawn... and I'm using Spriggan), but ever since I'm on a medium build, I won my fair share of duel/1vX against 7th/Fury Heavy DK with DoT pressure and Fossilize.
So yes, there's no skill/passive for a DK, but damage is damage. Do I hit harder when I'm on medium? Well yes.
I can't capitalize on stuff, and I'm WAY tankier when I'm on a heavy.... and yes, we don't have a spammable and we're not a burst... and YES heavy DK is more "optimized" for the class.........
....but my personal build have been proven with my playstyle that I kill more people, and faster, so I end up more effective on medium set.
Look, I run around Deadly Strike med build spin-to-win before Alcast come up with similar build.
Now, in Elsewyr, hell, I'm on 2H/2H build with Spriggan Maul on my burst bar, and Master Axe/Carve on the AoE bar.... (Have u tried Dizzying Swing in Cyrodiil now? spammable.)
TLDR; other class benefits more wearing medium, but to say "there's no reason for DK to use medium" is flat out wrong.
Let's just agree to disagree. I've tried med stamdk and i see no point in using it if i can clearly do better on med stamplar or other stams.
nothing to disagree there. other class do med better. that's a fact.
but like hell im creating a new char and build up all the gears all over again JUST so i can... use med armor? lol
no, seriously. i dont understand ur logic - nothing's wrong with it, u play how u want it - but what do u mean if u can do better on med stamplar/stamden, then stamDK... have no point using med?
sure i suppose if u have other toons and want ur DK to use the "BiS" set.
only thing i disagree is ur claiming that every DK should use heavy.There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever
i hope u'd consider making that claim for everyone.
because there is at least one reason. and that is to hit harder. with a bit of practice, med stamDK can take on heavy ones, no problem.
If i can use the exact same build and have far more success with one class (And said class being one i have much less experience with) over the other, i consider using that build on the class with weaker result pointless, hence why i think using medium on stamdk is useless.
I like minmaxing my builds for my playstyle and very rarely play with BiS or what is considered BiS, (My build is far from being BiS, but it works best on Stamdk) but i hate using a build that is clearly weaker on a character compared to another.
Also, i've never said every stam should run heavy, i said i consider medium stamdks pointless. There's a difference between claiming every Stamdk should play heavy and being realistic and knowing Stamdks are clearly inferior in medium compared to other classes.
ok we agree then.
I agree other class works with medium much better. But I want to play as a DK as its my most invested toon. And for this particular stamDK, medium works better than heavy. So I'm sticking with that.
It's clearly inferior to other class, but it's not inferior to a Heavy of the same class.How people are defending the use of a *** AOE debuffing dot as a pseudo-spammable because of Molten Whip truly astounds me.
Too many players can't see the big picture. This is especially true with pve dds, going full tunnel vision on their dps when it comes to balance changes.
Molten whip is indeed a buff to stamdk dps, but is it a buff to class identity and general class structure? No, it's the exact opposite and it shows how either clueless or apathetic the devs are when it comes to stamdk and the issues this class is facing
The same can be said about obnoxious breath. I'd like everyone to remember Claw was nerfed because IT'S NOT supposed to be used as a spammable, just like Molten Whip is NOT supposed to be used as a passive buff.
I've said this immediatly after reading the PTS notes: this is NOT going to end well for stamdks. Molten Whip and Obnoxious breath will get nerfed or Stamdk will get ignored once again and remain in this trainwreck status. Which one is worse? hard to tell.There is no efective diference. Treat the skills by what they are not by what they are "suposed" to be, and whip right now is a 375 weapon dmg buf for stam dk.
This statement is the perfect example of what i've just written. No big picture, pure tunnel vision on that phat 375 weapon damage.
It's not just stupid from a consistency standpoint, considering what happened this patch, it's also stupid from a gameplay standpoint, because it makes no sense for a damage-over-time skill to be a spammable, no matter how hard it hits or how well it synergises with another skill.
EDIT: Also want to point out, Noxious isn't alone in stupidity. Molten Whip is just as stupid for being a spammable, that pushes you into using other skills as spammables, to gain the secondary effect of your actual spammable. It's not a spammable, it's a *** damage proc that offers a phat passive weapon & spell damage bonus. We need to stop just drilling on Noxious being a stupid spammable, we need to drill on Molten Whip for having a stupid design that supports Noxious's stupidity.
I don't get the hate with using Nox as spammable (other than it looks like vomit...). If it hits hard, it's cheap, then it's good spammable.
The fact it's AoE is a bonus.
The fact it has a bleed is another bonus.
But molten whip tho... that's kinda stupid. Sure it works well for PvE MagDK (do they even exist?), but for PvP it won't work. For stamDK is just as useless.
HONESTLY, the way I look at it, it's a buff to Molten Whip morph. Great.
But it doesn't make it a BiS. 375 wep damage is no big deal. Any DW/Bow build without molten whip can pulls higher number.
What I like to see, honestly, at this point, a buff to green claw.
1. increase the cost to be same/closer to Nox.
2. remove the DoT.
3. double the damage.
4. ??
5. PROFIT.August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber0 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭As for pve, you're forced to double bar the new whip to increase your weapon damage and use noxious breath as your spammable... That should tell you how much of a clown fiesta this class has become. The dps isn't horrible, but i honestly refuse to play using a double barred mag spammable.
You don't need to use Noxious as spamable. You can have a fixed rotation without gimmicks and mantain seething fury x3 95%+ uptime. You also can not slot whip on backbar and keep seething fury with extra barswaps while in bow bar, the same as wardens do with subterranian assault. It will help keeping advancing yokeda if you still use it (stil a great set).
People is allways compaining, but pve wise stamdk is back from the gutter, on par with nb and wardens when last patch was clearly worse. Its not class fault that stamnecro have an OP ultimate (will get nerfed eventually) so groups will end with 6+ necros.
Yes, i agree that seething fury should be on ardent flame passives instead of whip, but come on, stop complaining and play a bit, experiment with rotations and learn that stamdk in pve is alive and well.
I never said stamdk is dead in pve, i said that having to slot a mag spammable on a stam character for seething fury is ridicolous. Also, you can use a build without noxious as a spammable, but it's going to be weaker than one using it.
There's a limit on how much BS i can endure. A mag spammable + using a dot as spammable (after Claw got changed to not be used as one) is too much for me.
And what is wrong in sloting skills only for the passives? It has been done forever with inner light, bound armaments, fighter guild skills, warden wings, aedric spear skills...
Weaker how? Less dps? I very much doubt that noxious breath direct damage portion beats rapid strikes, that even benefits from execute passives in dual wield. Is there any evidence of that? Honest question because looking around for some actual tests, the best results i saw (Liko) was using vma weapons, a rotation that "spams" rapids, not noxious.
I have my own tests, some posted in this same thread too.
There's a difference between using something like Bound Armaments or Expert Hunter or Magelight for the passives and using a magicka spammable for a buff, a big difference. One is supposed to be used like that, the other not so much... if they wanted to give a passive component to dks, that should've been on a passive skill, not a mag spammable.
I'm not that much experienced in pve, but last i checked, using obnoxious breath as spammable resulted in the best dps and better sustain due to combustion and world in ruin. The parses were being discussed on the forums around the time of the 2nd PTS cycle. After that, i stopped caring completely.As someone who hasn't played this game in a year and a half, how are Dragonknights (both Mag and Stam) doing in PvE and PvP nowadays? What have been the changes?
In pvp Stamdks, outside of 7th-fury-SnB + Corrosive armor are still a joke. They are barely above viable for general pvp and good at 1v1 with that setup, but at that point why not use literally any other class with 7th-fury? They're going to do better in everything, outside of 1v1 fights. There's no point in using the class, especially now that it's even more forced to run SnB or DW cause Uppercut got nerfed.
lol...
no.
i don't think my medium build is a joke. works fine last night. spent couple hours at Kalgrontiid. 95k AP just spamming Dizzying and fooling around the map.
There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever. Everything you did could have been done better on any other class, especially Stamplar, Stamden and Stamblade.
There's no skills or passives in the entire dk kit that encourages using anything other else other than Heavy Snb/DW +2h.
We have nothing to capitalize on the crit passive, no use for stealth and once again no mobility or regen to make effective use of the dodge roll/sprint passive. The only thing we get out of medium that actually makes a difference for stamdk is weapon damage and it's still less useful compared to other classes since we have no burst ability in our entire kit (No shalks, no grim focus, no power of the light)
Until this class gets an entire rework (Which, btw, is never going to happen) this class is going to be pigeonholed into using the same 7th-fury SnB we've been using for the past 2 years.
If you haven't tried, i suggest you try that same build on a stamblade or a stamplar and see how much difference there is between those classes and stamdk in medium.
I have a stamDen on medium and he really wrecks stuff. but my DK is my main, and he's the one i intended to keep playing on.
And say what u want, after years of swapping 7th/Fury heavy, 7th/Spriggan heavy, Agility Set (just PvP stuff, I have gold PvE stuff too), I have to say, it DOES make a difference when *I* go medium. I'm not saying DK should wear mediums, but for me, it's better than heavy. Trust me, I have couple hours on different setup, around 17 builds using Bandit's dressing room add-on just for PvP.... Skoria vs Troll King vs Bloodspawn vs Selene vs Domihouse, Earthgore, you name it....
So, while I do not claim this is IT for DK, but for me..... here's a few things:
1. DoT build and Deadly Strike.
2. I roll-dodge a lot.
3. My CP makes if I dodged an attack, dude becomes out of balance, and my attack hits 10% harder. (just put min 120 on the middle and right blue)
I'm not a good dueler (Corrosive is too slow to build, and I'm using a Nord with Bloodspawn... and I'm using Spriggan), but ever since I'm on a medium build, I won my fair share of duel/1vX against 7th/Fury Heavy DK with DoT pressure and Fossilize.
So yes, there's no skill/passive for a DK, but damage is damage. Do I hit harder when I'm on medium? Well yes.
I can't capitalize on stuff, and I'm WAY tankier when I'm on a heavy.... and yes, we don't have a spammable and we're not a burst... and YES heavy DK is more "optimized" for the class.........
....but my personal build have been proven with my playstyle that I kill more people, and faster, so I end up more effective on medium set.
Look, I run around Deadly Strike med build spin-to-win before Alcast come up with similar build.
Now, in Elsewyr, hell, I'm on 2H/2H build with Spriggan Maul on my burst bar, and Master Axe/Carve on the AoE bar.... (Have u tried Dizzying Swing in Cyrodiil now? spammable.)
TLDR; other class benefits more wearing medium, but to say "there's no reason for DK to use medium" is flat out wrong.
Let's just agree to disagree. I've tried med stamdk and i see no point in using it if i can clearly do better on med stamplar or other stams.
nothing to disagree there. other class do med better. that's a fact.
but like hell im creating a new char and build up all the gears all over again JUST so i can... use med armor? lol
no, seriously. i dont understand ur logic - nothing's wrong with it, u play how u want it - but what do u mean if u can do better on med stamplar/stamden, then stamDK... have no point using med?
sure i suppose if u have other toons and want ur DK to use the "BiS" set.
only thing i disagree is ur claiming that every DK should use heavy.There's no reason to use a medium dk, ever
i hope u'd consider making that claim for everyone.
because there is at least one reason. and that is to hit harder. with a bit of practice, med stamDK can take on heavy ones, no problem.
If i can use the exact same build and have far more success with one class (And said class being one i have much less experience with) over the other, i consider using that build on the class with weaker result pointless, hence why i think using medium on stamdk is useless.
I like minmaxing my builds for my playstyle and very rarely play with BiS or what is considered BiS, (My build is far from being BiS, but it works best on Stamdk) but i hate using a build that is clearly weaker on a character compared to another.
Also, i've never said every stam should run heavy, i said i consider medium stamdks pointless. There's a difference between claiming every Stamdk should play heavy and being realistic and knowing Stamdks are clearly inferior in medium compared to other classes.
ok we agree then.
I agree other class works with medium much better. But I want to play as a DK as its my most invested toon. And for this particular stamDK, medium works better than heavy. So I'm sticking with that.
It's clearly inferior to other class, but it's not inferior to a Heavy of the same class.How people are defending the use of a *** AOE debuffing dot as a pseudo-spammable because of Molten Whip truly astounds me.
Too many players can't see the big picture. This is especially true with pve dds, going full tunnel vision on their dps when it comes to balance changes.
Molten whip is indeed a buff to stamdk dps, but is it a buff to class identity and general class structure? No, it's the exact opposite and it shows how either clueless or apathetic the devs are when it comes to stamdk and the issues this class is facing
The same can be said about obnoxious breath. I'd like everyone to remember Claw was nerfed because IT'S NOT supposed to be used as a spammable, just like Molten Whip is NOT supposed to be used as a passive buff.
I've said this immediatly after reading the PTS notes: this is NOT going to end well for stamdks. Molten Whip and Obnoxious breath will get nerfed or Stamdk will get ignored once again and remain in this trainwreck status. Which one is worse? hard to tell.There is no efective diference. Treat the skills by what they are not by what they are "suposed" to be, and whip right now is a 375 weapon dmg buf for stam dk.
This statement is the perfect example of what i've just written. No big picture, pure tunnel vision on that phat 375 weapon damage.
It's not just stupid from a consistency standpoint, considering what happened this patch, it's also stupid from a gameplay standpoint, because it makes no sense for a damage-over-time skill to be a spammable, no matter how hard it hits or how well it synergises with another skill.
EDIT: Also want to point out, Noxious isn't alone in stupidity. Molten Whip is just as stupid for being a spammable, that pushes you into using other skills as spammables, to gain the secondary effect of your actual spammable. It's not a spammable, it's a *** damage proc that offers a phat passive weapon & spell damage bonus. We need to stop just drilling on Noxious being a stupid spammable, we need to drill on Molten Whip for having a stupid design that supports Noxious's stupidity.
I don't get the hate with using Nox as spammable (other than it looks like vomit...). If it hits hard, it's cheap, then it's good spammable.
The fact it's AoE is a bonus.
The fact it has a bleed is another bonus.
But molten whip tho... that's kinda stupid. Sure it works well for PvE MagDK (do they even exist?), but for PvP it won't work. For stamDK is just as useless.
HONESTLY, the way I look at it, it's a buff to Molten Whip morph. Great.
But it doesn't make it a BiS. 375 wep damage is no big deal. Any DW/Bow build without molten whip can pulls higher number.
What I like to see, honestly, at this point, a buff to green claw.
1. increase the cost to be same/closer to Nox.
2. remove the DoT.
3. double the damage.
4. ??
5. PROFIT.
You summoned me....what your problem my servant?
to answer the kinda stupid question, heck yes we still exist
PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer1 -
Cortimi✭✭✭✭✭
Stam DK PvP:
Just about every single class ability that a DK can be replaced by a weapon/armor ability that functions just as well, or maybe even better.
Especially the stam spammable....Xbox NA: Soviet Messiah
EP: Cortimi - Imperial StamDK
EP: Melga - Orc StamDen (Dah Bear)
EP: Narileya - Nord StamPlar (Mad cuz Bad)
EP: Corvaera - Bosmer Orc StamSorc (RIP)
PS4 NA (Retired at CP835): Soviet-Messiah:
EP: Cortimi - Imperial StamDK
DC: Melga gra-Antilae - StamDen
AD: Corvaera - Bosmer StamSorcCP is a crutch for people who can’t sustain and want to be "tanky" so they aren’t immediately punished for making mistakes.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Doomstriker wrote: »For magicka DK:
1. Lack of a spammable ranged dps single target skill. I wish one is the stone fist morphs could be changed to be spammable dps. We already have a cc ability with petrify.
2. Obsidian shield is a pitiful absorb in pvp. The shield is barely 1k vs 4K from harness magicka. I wish one of the morphs would scale off of magicka instead of health and provide a higher absorb for the caster.
3. Petrify range is terrible at 8m. Rune Prison the sorcerer equivalent is 28m. And basically does the same thing.
4. Power lash takes too long to setup in pvp and is too easy to dodge. If you cc someone and use flame lash, then most players will instantly dodge roll ASAP before you can use powerlash. I wish powerlash could be changed to automatically proc when your target is stunned or off balance.
That’s silly. Range use a staff. Don’t run obsidian shield lol. Fossilize is great at 8m. Let them come to you.
As for powerlash, if you’re not animation canceling your whips you’re playing MagDk wrong. (EVEN in Lag). Whip block whip block HEAL! Lol. (Don’t run molten it’s for taters lmao).
Ranged mDK is bad. No passives contributes to the play style and the only things that makes it different are armaments (the extra dmg on full heavy attack) and stonefist. None of them will make any ranged mDK viable.
DK is melee or melee. Now with the nerfs to roots it is even less viable.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »(StamDK)
A bunch of pages and what we got with elswhere chap is that we lost wings and got noxious breath as spammable instead of venomous claw.
Discussions need to be focused on single abilities, active an passive, 1 by 1 if we are to get changes happen slowly.
Take an ability, compared it with other classes and how it synergizes or does not in the DK toolkit and ask for a clear change.
Also call for a removal of 7th Veiled and Fury from the game. Yes it will hurt the only strong stamDK build, but then the class might be improved. Nothing to lose. It's boring at this point.
Problem is that not many people main stamDK and like having many different builds on a stamDK.
There are not many different builds on a stamDK outside 7th/fury ; S/B-2H. I tried one relying on procs and, though it was fun, it was not even near as strong as a 7th/Fury ste up.
sDK cannot go ranged, that's a silly move. Yes, you get extra resources by using venom arrow... anything else? Yes, you can do extra dmg on acid spray first hit, but just a 6% extra. Any well build stamblade will do much more dmg and it's not forced to run poison skills (so he can use Bombard instead)
DW may be an option, but the fact that no passive synergizes with bleeds makes it less appealing. Sure, you can try foss + flurry/WB to get a 15% extra dmg, but any class can do that (except temps).
So the option is spamming noxious while permablocking. Maybe good old Black Rose could be an optional set with that setup, but the playing style remains the same: instead of ransack, you cast 3 noxious, then a heroic slash. Rinse and repeat.Edited by Xvorg on May 29, 2019 6:30PMSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »(StamDK)
A bunch of pages and what we got with elswhere chap is that we lost wings and got noxious breath as spammable instead of venomous claw.
Discussions need to be focused on single abilities, active an passive, 1 by 1 if we are to get changes happen slowly.
Take an ability, compared it with other classes and how it synergizes or does not in the DK toolkit and ask for a clear change.
Also call for a removal of 7th Veiled and Fury from the game. Yes it will hurt the only strong stamDK build, but then the class might be improved. Nothing to lose. It's boring at this point.
Problem is that not many people main stamDK and like having many different builds on a stamDK.
There are not many different builds on a stamDK outside 7th/fury ; S/B-2H. I tried one relying on procs and, though it was fun, it was not even near as strong as a 7th/Fury ste up.
sDK cannot go ranged, that's a silly move. Yes, you get extra resources by using venom arrow... anything else? Yes, you can do extra dmg on acid spray first hit, but just a 6% extra. Any well build stamblade will do much more dmg and it's not forced to run poison skills (so he can use Bombard instead)
DW may be an option, but the fact that no passive synergizes with bleeds makes it less appealing. Sure, you can try foss + flurry/WB to get a 15% extra dmg, but any class can do that (except temps).
So the option is spamming noxious while permablocking. Maybe good old Black Rose could be an optional set with that setup, but the playing style remains the same: instead of ransack, you cast 3 noxious, then a heroic slash. Rinse and repeat.
Thought they took out the poison aoe damage buff. I'm I mistaken? Acid spray thing. Honestly with no ranged burst SDK is the lowest choice for a ranged PvP or pve setup. You can run medium but it's a waste in this current patch.-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....0 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stam DK PvP:
Just about every single class ability that a DK can be replaced by a weapon/armor ability that functions just as well, or maybe even better.
Especially the stam spammable....
agree.
but it's still a nice class. I love my leap ulti, the thing I miss the most when playing other class.August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stam DK PvP:
Just about every single class ability that a DK can be replaced by a weapon/armor ability that functions just as well, or maybe even better.
Especially the stam spammable....
agree.
but it's still a nice class. I love my leap ulti, the thing I miss the most when playing other class.
It looks cool, but face it, it doesn't bring anything to the table. I enjoy much more dying on my melee mageblade than trying to play my DK
Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Doomstriker wrote: »For magicka DK:
1. Lack of a spammable ranged dps single target skill. I wish one is the stone fist morphs could be changed to be spammable dps. We already have a cc ability with petrify.
2. Obsidian shield is a pitiful absorb in pvp. The shield is barely 1k vs 4K from harness magicka. I wish one of the morphs would scale off of magicka instead of health and provide a higher absorb for the caster.
3. Petrify range is terrible at 8m. Rune Prison the sorcerer equivalent is 28m. And basically does the same thing.
4. Power lash takes too long to setup in pvp and is too easy to dodge. If you cc someone and use flame lash, then most players will instantly dodge roll ASAP before you can use powerlash. I wish powerlash could be changed to automatically proc when your target is stunned or off balance.
That’s silly. Range use a staff. Don’t run obsidian shield lol. Fossilize is great at 8m. Let them come to you.
As for powerlash, if you’re not animation canceling your whips you’re playing MagDk wrong. (EVEN in Lag). Whip block whip block HEAL! Lol. (Don’t run molten it’s for taters lmao).
Ranged mDK is bad. No passives contributes to the play style and the only things that makes it different are armaments (the extra dmg on full heavy attack) and stonefist. None of them will make any ranged mDK viable.
DK is melee or melee. Now with the nerfs to roots it is even less viable.
Untrue. Now I’m not saying run MagDk SOLELY at range. Yet, while you’re not in melee range ABSOLUTELY FIGHT at range with a STAFF.
Ideally you want to close on your opponent (depending on the opponent) or let them close on you. Against a magsorc you def want to close and fight in melee; but against a stamden or even a StamDK, kiting and fighting outside 8m is effective. You know Fossilize, animation cancel a few whips then “Step back Daniel-san!”
Considering all the people who take off running to reset or run for their lives a staff don’t hurt none lol.1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Doomstriker wrote: »For magicka DK:
1. Lack of a spammable ranged dps single target skill. I wish one is the stone fist morphs could be changed to be spammable dps. We already have a cc ability with petrify.
2. Obsidian shield is a pitiful absorb in pvp. The shield is barely 1k vs 4K from harness magicka. I wish one of the morphs would scale off of magicka instead of health and provide a higher absorb for the caster.
3. Petrify range is terrible at 8m. Rune Prison the sorcerer equivalent is 28m. And basically does the same thing.
4. Power lash takes too long to setup in pvp and is too easy to dodge. If you cc someone and use flame lash, then most players will instantly dodge roll ASAP before you can use powerlash. I wish powerlash could be changed to automatically proc when your target is stunned or off balance.
That’s silly. Range use a staff. Don’t run obsidian shield lol. Fossilize is great at 8m. Let them come to you.
As for powerlash, if you’re not animation canceling your whips you’re playing MagDk wrong. (EVEN in Lag). Whip block whip block HEAL! Lol. (Don’t run molten it’s for taters lmao).
Ranged mDK is bad. No passives contributes to the play style and the only things that makes it different are armaments (the extra dmg on full heavy attack) and stonefist. None of them will make any ranged mDK viable.
DK is melee or melee. Now with the nerfs to roots it is even less viable.
Untrue. Now I’m not saying run MagDk SOLELY at range. Yet, while you’re not in melee range ABSOLUTELY FIGHT at range with a STAFF.
Ideally you want to close on your opponent (depending on the opponent) or let them close on you. Against a magsorc you def want to close and fight in melee; but against a stamden or even a StamDK, kiting and fighting outside 8m is effective. You know Fossilize, animation cancel a few whips then “Step back Daniel-san!”
Considering all the people who take off running to reset or run for their lives a staff don’t hurt none lol.
You know that you could do much better with another class, right?
I also run with a flame staff on my mDK, but trading pew pew against a sorc or NB is a death sentence. You don't have better crits, you don't have better resource management and you lack a true burst skill. Even ranged DoT play style is much, much better on a NB because of crit (and crit chance) and because debilitate + swallow soul combo is awesome. Not only refils your health, but also your magicka. You can even combine them with quick syphon on resto staff to get an ever stronger effect. Not to mention Siphoning attacks.
As a counterpart, you beg the RGN god to proc burning status while spamming force pulse and using elemental drain.
Yes, you can go melee with a flame staff (or a lit staff + livewire to proc off balance easily). No, you cannot do more dmg at range.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stam DK PvP:
Just about every single class ability that a DK can be replaced by a weapon/armor ability that functions just as well, or maybe even better.
Especially the stam spammable....
agree.
but it's still a nice class. I love my leap ulti, the thing I miss the most when playing other class.
It looks cool, but face it, it doesn't bring anything to the table. I enjoy much more dying on my melee mageblade than trying to play my DK
disagree. solid damage and aoe stun for a mere 110 ulti is definitely something on the table.August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber0 -
ffyre✭✭✭How people are defending the use of a *** AOE debuffing dot as a pseudo-spammable because of Molten Whip truly astounds me.
I also fall into the camp disagreeing with noxious breath as a spammable, but not because it's a DOT (I loved being able to use Venomous Claw as a spammable because of the sustain implications). I disagree with it because, while it does relatively great initial tick damage, it's main purpose is to provide fracture - and in a trial you're going to have that already. To me, it's inane to use it as a spammable as such.
BUT - that being said, there are plenty of other builds that don't require the use of spamming breath. Hell, with the re-work you can twirl around with whirling blades and actually have a bit of an execute since we will evidently never get one.
I'm really enjoying being able to utilize the Maelstrom daggers with Flurry. On parses I'm playing with Relequen and Deadly Strike as well as Relequen and Leviathan. When you break it down, the crit you get from Leviathan is extremely comparable to Advancing, but never drops off. You lose a bit of weapon damage, but you get added stamina, which I think may be necessary for sustain.Jo'Raashaa - Khajiit StamDK | Do'Zhi-ra'dala - Khajiit StamDen | Dada'la-daro - Khajiit MagPlar1 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭We didn't want you using a single target dot as a spammable. It makes much more sense for everyone to spam AOEs. That way you can just unslot that single target dot outside of boss fights. Much better balance, if you want a spammable: Cleave, Spintowin, Acid Spray, and of course Noxious should be your go to.
/sLegendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0