[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

Ragnarock41

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Pain point, resource return based on ult cost instead of ultimate consumed pushes DKs into using ultimates on CD instead of opportunistically.

So say I have 500 ult stored, casting a 110 ult Dragon Leap is a big hit to sustain. I've the given up 390 worth of ult, same as every other class, but I've also given up a huge amount of sustain the class is built around.

This is true HOWEVER, the current system also allows a Dk to build ultimate cost reduction but still get full value out of battle roar. Though Its true that current system forces Dks to use ult on cooldown cause they lose out on sustain otherwise.

Bashev

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Pain point, resource return based on ult cost instead of ultimate consumed pushes DKs into using ultimates on CD instead of opportunistically.

So say I have 500 ult stored, casting a 110 ult Dragon Leap is a big hit to sustain. I've the given up 390 worth of ult, same as every other class, but I've also given up a huge amount of sustain the class is built around.

This is true HOWEVER, the current system also allows a Dk to build ultimate cost reduction but still get full value out of battle roar. Though Its true that current system forces Dks to use ult on cooldown cause they lose out on sustain otherwise.

This was useful when we used bats (275 ulti and you decrease it to 160 or even 140). Right now that ulti is not so popular as the increased damage from fire is a really punishing you.

OwnerOfSuccuby

1) pvp: When i lock target with tab and try attack or heavy attack it it attack not selected target but for example sorcerers pet.
2) no execute, no good range skills. No invis, pets, nothing unique when wings will be cut from us. Just dead class with nothing interesting in pvp.
Magma armor do not protect us in pvp, no execute, no good range damage, not enough armor to resist some oneshot builds. (10 k damage from invis + snipe).

---

The bigest problem is that it always strange changes in skill. Champion change, class change, race change. Alredy hate it. I would like if no big changes at all. Not rework in sets and existing skills. Only add something new. And do not change old stuff. Already stop it. I even do not know notonly what changes will be in my class, race, skills, gear. It demotivates to play.

Davadin

Beffagorn wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

*gives virtual hug*

There, there......... you're not alone........

Thanks... i needed that. I had to unload my salt after the stream.

Update 22 is going to focus on classes, maybe Stamdks will get something new. There's a lot of good and detailed feedback in this thread, let's hope it's not wasted. If nothing happens, there's the stam necro train to catch

one of my leg is already on that train.......

but yes, i look forward to Update 22.

I just got a Master 2H from vDSA and if they keep their proposed Cleave, it will be da BOMB...

Davadin

phantasmalD wrote: »

If I understand correctly MS makes it so that no attack can do more than 3% of your max hp for 9 second, so theoretically you can take like 30 attacks. But is that better and more powerful than just straight up having 30k shield, can you 1negate more damage? I'm kind of doubtful but too tired to do the math.

agree with everything, but note that Armor gives YOU buff, but Barrier gives YOUR WHOLE TEAM buff....... is it not?

Davadin

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

the attackers will no longer be able to kill themself via reflects, the DK stays true to the stand-your ground and outlast your opponent theme.

DK's theme isn't "stand-your-ground", or I hope it isn't.

we got fire damage or poison DoT... i like to think we're not shoehorned into a tank class....

Djinn_Rorschach

As a mDK primary for 4+ years...

1) I think most can agree that Magma Armor is a near-useless class ultimate accounting for cost & capability when compared to Barrier, the S&B ult, or resto ult. I would love to see Magma armor better reflect its stamina counterpart, but with a twist:
I.e. Magma armor grants 100% spell penetration for its duration, and grants 1300/s flame damage... but no damage mitigation. MDKs primarily heal from the amount of damage output (i.e. burning embers), so those dots while Magma is active (100% spell pen) would grant an incredible heal upon recast.

2) Call me sloppy, but I'd argue resource management continues to be an issue. I'd love to see more strategic regen/refund abilities like Inhale (10% magicka refund per enemy hit).

Thanks!

cpuScientist

Race Against Time (morph): This morph no longer reduces the cost of sprinting by 50% for 4 seconds. Instead, it now grants immunity to Snares and Immobilizations for 4 seconds.

Wings as they are changed need to match this. With DK having the option for either minor force or 50% damage reduction.

As it will be changed, time to give it 4 seconds immunity and some sweet expedition

juhislihis19

Sooo..

Wings got nerfed
Obnoxious Breath got buffed but is still clunky
Venonous Claw got.. buffed?
Flurry will be our new spammable?
Inferno got buffed, will this have any significance for sDKs?
No new stam morphs

There is now a magicka based cc/snare immunity. This of course favors magicka characters because stamdks still have to reserve magicka for Armor, Petrify, possibly Ignetious, Plate and Mending Shield.

Oh and no nerfs to 7th/Fury so nothings changed for sDK? Still ignored, yes?

Davadin

juhislihis19 wrote: »

Sooo..

Wings got nerfed
Obnoxious Breath got buffed but is still clunky
Venonous Claw got.. buffed?
Flurry will be our new spammable?
Inferno got buffed, will this have any significance for sDKs?
No new stam morphs

There is now a magicka based cc/snare immunity. This of course favors magicka characters because stamdks still have to reserve magicka for Armor, Petrify, possibly Ignetious, Plate and Mending Shield.

Oh and no nerfs to 7th/Fury so nothings changed for sDK? Still ignored, yes?

Venom Claw buffed? they up the damage because the 1st tick is removed, so it's no longer spammable. It becomes the tried and true DoT skill as intended.

It's a nerf depending how u use it, or maybe not, but definitely not any better than now.

What sDK use Inferno or its morph? Expert Hunter trumps this.

I say we got ignored again. No class identity.

I'll be switching to the MagDK bandwagon once Elswyr hits live.

kathandira

Davadin wrote: »

What sDK use Inferno or its morph? Expert Hunter trumps this.

I use Flames of Oblivion on my sDK in PvE. Much better than Expert Hunter. I'm pretty excited for the buff.

Davadin

kathandira wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

What sDK use Inferno or its morph? Expert Hunter trumps this.

I use Flames of Oblivion on my sDK in PvE. Much better than Expert Hunter. I'm pretty excited for the buff.

so the mag cost of enabling it and getting the DoT is more than 3% more weapon damage?

I guess for PvE it would be better... not sure about PvP.....

BlackMadara

Davadin wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

What sDK use Inferno or its morph? Expert Hunter trumps this.

I use Flames of Oblivion on my sDK in PvE. Much better than Expert Hunter. I'm pretty excited for the buff.

so the mag cost of enabling it and getting the DoT is more than 3% more weapon damage?

I guess for PvE it would be better... not sure about PvP.....

Tbh, I think FoO is better in PvP as well. Neither medium nor heavy builds have much penetration, so the only significant loss in damage is from mighty cp. This is of you are looking for major savagery and can afford the magicka cost.

John_Falstaff

Davadin wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

What sDK use Inferno or its morph? Expert Hunter trumps this.

I use Flames of Oblivion on my sDK in PvE. Much better than Expert Hunter. I'm pretty excited for the buff.

so the mag cost of enabling it and getting the DoT is more than 3% more weapon damage?

I guess for PvE it would be better... not sure about PvP.....

It's mostly the mag cost that (sadly) makes it more attractive on stamDK. The class has awful sustain, and a skill that costs magicka (but scales with highest stat) helps to offload part of the resource usage onto the off stat - so one skill cast of those present in your rotation, you avoid spending stamina, instead dipping into your magicka pool. It's ugly, it's not thematic, it's not perfect (because it's still flame damage isn't buffed by typical stamina CP setup), but sadly for DK it does matter a lot, at least in PvE.

Davadin

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

What sDK use Inferno or its morph? Expert Hunter trumps this.

I use Flames of Oblivion on my sDK in PvE. Much better than Expert Hunter. I'm pretty excited for the buff.

so the mag cost of enabling it and getting the DoT is more than 3% more weapon damage?

I guess for PvE it would be better... not sure about PvP.....

It's mostly the mag cost that (sadly) makes it more attractive on stamDK. The class has awful sustain, and a skill that costs magicka (but scales with highest stat) helps to offload part of the resource usage onto the off stat - so one skill cast of those present in your rotation, you avoid spending stamina, instead dipping into your magicka pool. It's ugly, it's not thematic, it's not perfect (because it's still flame damage isn't buffed by typical stamina CP setup), but sadly for DK it does matter a lot, at least in PvE.

no i get it. in pvp too resource can be an issue, and offloading to magicka can help. of course, fossilize is already BiS skill, and that costs a bit of mag chunk already.

phantasmalD

Davadin wrote: »

phantasmalD wrote: »

If I understand correctly MS makes it so that no attack can do more than 3% of your max hp for 9 second, so theoretically you can take like 30 attacks. But is that better and more powerful than just straight up having 30k shield, can you 1negate more damage? I'm kind of doubtful but too tired to do the math.

agree with everything, but note that Armor gives YOU buff, but Barrier gives YOUR WHOLE TEAM buff....... is it not?

Both skills give both you and your allies buffs. Barrier just does it better for reasons I stated earlier.

Let me just paste the tooltips real quick.

Magma Shell wrote:

Ignite the molten lava in your veins, limiting incoming damage to 3% of your Max Health and dealing [X] Flame Damage to nearby enemies each second for 9 seconds. When activated, nearby allies gain a damage shield for 100% of their Max Health for 9 seconds.

Barrier wrote:

Invoke defensive tactics to protect yourself and nearby allies with wards that each absorb up to [Y] damage.

Morphs:
1. The wards also heal you and your allies for [Z] Health over 30 seconds.
2. Each time a ward dissolves, you restore 6 Ultimate and [W] Magicka.

On my non-optimized quick healer build
X = 910
Y = 29k
Z = 25k
W = 545

Davadin

ah sorry im thinking corrosive armor....

phantasmalD

Ah, I see. An easy mistake to make.
But yeah, was talking about the other morph.

woe

I think the DK changes are great. Too many people freaking out about ***. The change to wings is especially good for pve. I understand you won't be shooting a projectile back in pvp anymore but the change is still good.

Runefang

How many here use their magDKs for progression trials? vCR +3 and vAS +2 specifically.

John_Falstaff

deflorate wrote: »

I think the DK changes are great. Too many people freaking out about ***. The change to wings is especially good for pve. I understand you won't be shooting a projectile back in pvp anymore but the change is still good.

How's that good for PvE, of all things? Did you try to tank vFL? Or vBRP?

Sanguinor2

Runefang wrote: »

How many here use their magDKs for progression trials? vCR +3 and vAS +2 specifically.

Does respeccing it to tank Count?^^ I´d get laughed at if I brought my mdk to asylum or cloudrest as a dd and then probably switch to my magplar because if I run force pulse or ele weapon I might aswell do so on a class that actually works with range.

Spizzie

Now that snare/immobilization immunity has been largely normalized across the game at 4 seconds (Forward Momentum, Race Against Time, new Blur morph Phantasmal Escape), what is the reason for DK's Protective Plate still being capped at 2 seconds? Every other snare/immobilization removal tool has secondary effects, whether it's major evasion, minor force, major expedition, major brutality, heal-over-time, etc. and yet DK is sitting with a more costly snare removal tool with HALF the uptime and a more limited bonus effect tacked on. This seems extremely simple.

Savos_Saren

ZOS made Frags and Spectral Bow faster with patch 5.0.1... does that apply toward our Stone Fist and Templar's Javelin? Or were we already at that projectile speed?

Is ZOS going to buff Stone Fist to be somewhat equal to Frags and Spectral Bow?

juhislihis19

Savos_Saren wrote: »

ZOS made Frags and Spectral Bow faster with patch 5.0.1... does that apply toward our Stone Fist and Templar's Javelin? Or were we already at that projectile speed?

Is ZOS going to buff Stone Fist to be somewhat equal to Frags and Spectral Bow?

Short answer? No.

Long answer? LOL no.

DK is insignificant to ZOS.

Xogath

Based on everything I'm seeing, looking like my StamDK is now a wasted character slot.

* Stamina DKs slotting Whip and ignoring it while juggling a 5 second buff for 375 passive weapon damage.
* Change to Uppercut and its morphs still bad and unintuitive for PvE use.
* Those of us who aren't obsessed with Dual Wield won't be using Flurry.
* Stamina DKs still lack identity other than expelling green fire from our faces.
* Existing, unchanged abilities still.. pretty bad and clunky. (Flame of Oblivion)

Not sure why ZOS doesn't listen to some of the good suggestions made on these forums, or at least pop in at random to further discuss things with players.

Madrax573

I've been playing my DK as a mag focussed tank/dps and it seemed like how it is 'supposed' to be played. In their face smashing them with weapons and throwing flames around!

Good damage/dot's, tanking and self healing with team buffs etc.


Then I swapped him to more Stam focussed with sword n board and bow for damage and a little bit of Mag for buffs and utilities.

Not going so easily as magicka runs out too quickly so your utility and buffs drops off quickly. Heals also drop a fair bit and as a tank this is an issue...


So It seems to me like they WANT DK's to be a Hybrid class, but as well know the system is setup to give maximum advantage to people who go 'all in' on one stat so by default they are lacking in a lot of things.

Davadin

New idea from the other thread:

Change poison claw from DoT to direct damage.

Take half the total DoT and put it as direct damage. It's instant. It's cheap.

Beffagorn

Davadin wrote: »

New idea from the other thread:

Change poison claw from DoT to direct damage.

Take half the total DoT and put it as direct damage. It's instant. It's cheap.

It's not the worst idea, but at the end it would only further reduce what little class fantasy stamdk has, which is being a dot focused class and in return we would only gain a discount version of any other spammable or a single target pts-carve.

I'd rather have our spammable be a weapon skill. Flurry and Cleave seem decent on the pts, why can't Wrecking Blow get the same treatment and finally become a decent skill for both pve and pvp?

Instead they nerf dizzy so it's better at dps, rofl. Since when has dizzy ever been used for dps? who even uses uppercut at all, in pve? Who came up with such a terrible idea?

Madrax573

I'd be quite happy if DK's were the DOT class. I'd happily stack some light DOT's then augment the damage with physical or staff attacks... But the DOT's are pretty lacklustre and the need to split resources really hampers them from what I've experienced so far.

I do enjoy my DK though so will keep going and trying different ways to play him.