Worlds First vCR HM & Speedrun by Hodor

Vahrokh

Cryptical wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

The practice time is nice, but the biggest advantage they get is the ability to pull whatever set piece they want out of the container of All The Sets That Exist.

Wanna try dual wielding master swords? Just pull them out of the bag. Sword and mace? In the bag. Mace and axe? In the bag. Different traits? In the bag.

They never need to farm for the items they want to use in their practice and experiences. So they never end up spending time getting items that do not work as well as expected.

The pre-release practice time already calls into question the value of “first”, but having god mode for gear makes the first clear on the test server still have a credibility issue.

You know that "god mode" bag of goodies isn't on the live server, right?

The point he was making was that it’s eliminating trial/ error and failure times. That’s why people are discrediting the declaration of “world first” when Hodor’s actual “world first” was whenever they first did it on PTS—with caveats regarding gear optimization on the fly. I mean you can do the Trial sets WITH the Trial sets on PTS without having to farm any of them, can’t you? I didn’t check it out this cycle PTS but I think that’s the case.

About being able to practice the trial with the best gear the trial drops, I forgot about that.

It was that way for clockwork. Upon login, there’s the template. Make a template character, theres all the perfected asylum weapons in all the useful traits, even though you haven’t figured out where on the map the city even was.

Put all the perfected weapons from the template into the bank, and there you go. Testing which perfected weapon worked best for your play style and rotation.

Same process for your attempt on live: make a template character and pull all the stuff you want to test from the bags marked Overland Sets or Dungeon Sets etc. Want an odd trait? Use the transmutation table with the Infinite Transmutation Crystal.

God mode for gear means having a cost-free guide to map out exactly what needs to be farmed on live. So even the first test server clear isn’t dependable because of that God Mode For Gear.

It might sound new to you, but the PTS was not reserved to Hodor. Every single guild could access the same "magic bags" and compete with Hodor, both on PTS and on release.

They got beaten and Hodor won. That's it.

Vahrokh

Phage wrote: »

Seriously.

Betas are for testing and finding/fixing issues.

They are not for practicing your trial run for bragging rights.

What do you think they do while they practice for content that only Hodor and othe 5-6 guilds will ever see?

They'll submit feedback.

I did the same they do, back in WoW. My guild was one of the top 10 world first, we played before anyone else, we found dozens of game breaking bugs in the bosses scripts and we reported them all.
I did the same in EvE Online, when they were setting up Factional Warfare. The developers would talk with us when we found bugs in beta.

Just live with that, there are very competent and skilled people helping preparing the playing grounds for everyone else.

Vahrokh

Phage wrote: »

hregrin wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

My deal is that Hodor and other progression guilds abuse the PTS for their own benefit, and then brag about it.

Maybe it's what they get for playtesting/bug catching for us all? Not many players are able to do it for that kind of content...

If they were focused on playtesting/bugcatching, we wouldn't have the exploits problems in vAS.

They aren't focused on that at all. They just care about bragging rights.

Hodor tests game play, not against exploits. They certainly don't need nor want to spend their testing time finding the right pixel that allows unskilled cheaters to exploit a flaw.

Feanor

Gz. Ignore the jealousy.

Peekachu99

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

hregrin wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

My deal is that Hodor and other progression guilds abuse the PTS for their own benefit, and then brag about it.

Maybe it's what they get for playtesting/bug catching for us all? Not many players are able to do it for that kind of content...

Such thorough testing that at least two vet Trial bosses now can/ have been sniped with impunity. Much thorough. Much testing. Let’s not pretend they’re doing it for the “testing”, they’re doing it for the challenge and bragging rights.

You test by playing the content at the highest level possible. Very few players can complete vet HM trials. They're meant to catch any obvious bugs. Exploits are exploits because they use non-conventional strategies to break the boundaries of the game.

The salt in this thread is unreal. But then, it's the same any time a thread like this gets posted. Some people will always be jealous of the achievements of others.

People have given plenty of logical, non-salty reasons as to why this result is rigged that you continue to ignore. I guess it’s easier to just claim “salt” than to tackle those. I’d like to see an honest, go-in-blind on all platforms race. Until then, this is just posturing as the testing environment has given Hodor an indisputable leg up on the competitors.

I have no horse in this race, and I get to Trials when I get to them (usually a few months after they’re out). But facts are facts.

Feanor

as the testing environment has given Hodor an indisputable leg up on the competitors.

I doubt that. You don’t need to be a high-profile player to take part in the PTS even when there is an NDA.

Peekachu99

Feanor wrote: »

as the testing environment has given Hodor an indisputable leg up on the competitors.

I doubt that. You don’t need to be a high-profile player to take part in the PTS even when there is an NDA.

You’re grasping as console guilds, and even many PC guilds can’t/ don’t easily partake. The assertion made by many of you that having four weeks practice and unlimited gear configs to test out strategies and theory-builds is frankly ludicrous. Whoever can partake in that has an advantage in world firsts. Hodor are clearly the ones to take greatest advantage and that’s no shade on them, it’s a flaw in the testing environment. But acting as if it’s not an advantage is silly.

Most raids—WoW (last I checked), FFXIV (for sure)—LOCK out raid tiers until actual launch. Those are real world firsts. It’s like having an obstacle course where one or more teams have already run it a million times, and the rest just have to go in blind not knowing whether to pack canteen or rope or whatever, then everyone claiming there’s a level playing field when there’s not. Would you run the Olympics this way? Canada, UK and US get unlimited practice on the field and Kenya and whoever just show up day of and hope for the best? Fairness, right? Totally fine.

Why does this need to be explained with such granularity?

Turelus

Vahrokh wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Seriously.

Betas are for testing and finding/fixing issues.

They are not for practicing your trial run for bragging rights.

What do you think they do while they practice for content that only Hodor and othe 5-6 guilds will ever see?

They'll submit feedback.

I did the same they do, back in WoW. My guild was one of the top 10 world first, we played before anyone else, we found dozens of game breaking bugs in the bosses scripts and we reported them all.
I did the same in EvE Online, when they were setting up Factional Warfare. The developers would talk with us when we found bugs in beta.

Just live with that, there are very competent and skilled people helping preparing the playing grounds for everyone else.

Whilst this is good and I respect they report the bugs, it's not good for a game when the content designed to be the new challenge can be entirely catalogued on PTS and cleared within an hour of launch into the live game.

My gripe isn't with HODOR or other guilds which test at all in this, but the way ZOS develops trials which are meant to be competitive. They need to have a better in house team which does what HODOR and others are doing so that when the content goes live there is that anticipation and excitement of competition and going into the unknown.

I would would hope that the top trials guilds would want this as well to bring some excitement back to their release days.

Feanor

@Peekachu99

Because at this point it mostly doesn’t matter. The raid scene has dwindled to the point there isn’t many guilds left, and I estimate about 90% of the players won’t even notice the world first.

If ZOS has to decide between free bug testing by very good players or a fair shot at a world‘s first for everyone, I think it’s clear what they will do.

Praetorrus

Phage wrote: »

Seriously.

Betas are for testing and finding/fixing issues.

They are not for practicing your trial run for bragging rights.

And we tested a new trial from day one on PTS, reported bugs, experienced every change ZOS made inside trial, so now you guys can run a new trial on live in a relatively good state compared to some bugs we were struggling with on PTS.

Aluneth

The problem isn't that they get to clear the raid on PTS, this is common practice with most MMORPGs. The major problem is that the content isn't difficult enough. The top guilds in WoW spend hundreds of hours testing the raid on PTS, and it still takes the best guilds in the game 3-7 weeks to clear the last boss on the hardest difficulty. That's 3+ weeks of 12+ hours a day dying to the bosses. A boss fight (often the last few) can easily take over 10 minutes, and the best guilds commonly wipe between 200 to 500 times. This is the hardest difficulty of the raid. There are lower difficulties that are much easier, and for the more 'casual player'.

The US get to play the raid a day before the rest of the world, and it still doesn't make a difference, as it's almost always the best EU guilds that end up taking the worlds first, after weeks in the raid. You do spend some of that time to gear up the players, and this isn't needed with the gear progression we have in ESO. It still shouldn't go down within the first hour.

There is no doubt that the most hardcore players in WoW are leagues ahead of the best players in ESO, and it still takes them that long time to clear the hardest content.

TLDR : The content is too easy, and Hodor has no competition.

Love Wizard

Thought I'd do a little writeup since there's alot of misconceptions about how things work, and my personal opinion about how things needs to be adjusted, and addressed.

First and foremost, an incentive to do end game raiding, and most and foremost, and incentive to compete for scores.
As it stands right now, there's a few active raiding guilds going for scores, and hardmode clears and such, on each server, and this is just simply not enough. It's been like this for a long time actually, and it's something that needs to be done something about. I personally find that ESO has alot of nice content to offer when it comes to endgame raiding, and its a shame they're not being used to their full potential. I don't care what the incentive is, but there needs to be something to get people into this. The Asylum Sanctorium extremely rare skin drop was a good incentive I feel like, and im not sure why they haven't opted for the same thing for Cloudrest. Right now in Cloudrest, after you clear it for the skin, there's NOTHING to achieve there anymore! There's some neat sets, but thats about it! I've brought this up on mulitple threads, without Zenimax even bothering, yes bothering, to give a decent reply to it.

The other issue at hand, is the PTS issues. When all of you say that its bullsh*t that the we got to practice the trial on PTS for weeks, and weeks, I completely agree with you, its a flawed system. But as it stands, I don't think ZoS has a capable QA team to do the testing themselves, to ensure that the content brought to you on live, is flawless, free of bugs. Hodor as a guild in it self, reported a huge ammount of bugs that were all fixed more or less on live, and this is important. We can look back to Maw of Lorkahj PTS, the reason it took so long for this to be cleared, was for one, it was actually a very mechanicly challenging trial back in the day, and for two, the PTS was utter chaos! We didn't have capped cp, we didnt have the best sets, we crashed ALL the time, we disconnected, and so on! The trial ended up dropping with a few bugs, but overall, Maw of Lorkahj has been ZoS best DLC trial by FAR. Im not sure what we as a community can do, and im not sure what ZoS can do to ensure that the trial doesn't get beaten on first day, to ensure that the trial is flawless in terms of bugs, and to make sure that the trial is the right difficulty.

The last issue at hand I want to bring up, is minitrials. Whilst I understand ZoS will more or less probably profit more with minitrials, you have to understand that they are just dull, boring and in give or take half a year, cloudrest will be dead content! I think I speak on the behalf of the community when I say this, and DEFINETLY on behalf of the endgame raiding scene, full scale trials are much more fun, much more challenging, and overall, the better fit. It also hinders progression for example on the PTS, as guilds will be stuck on various bosses for potential weeks, having to figure them out. Having just one boss fight, just simplifies too much. We want trashpacks, we want multiple bosses that scale in difficulty, and we don't want to be stood in a single boss room for the entirety of the trial!

For those of us that don't think our clear is worthy of being called a worlds first, you're completely entitled to having your own opinion about how rightful this clear is, whetever it being we practiced it on the PTS, our patch dropped whilst americans were working, or something else. But I want you to know, if you're angry with how things are, then please direct that anger to Zenimax, where it belongs, and lets try to fix things, and make them better.

- @IWM

LegendaryArcher

Praetorrus wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Seriously.

Betas are for testing and finding/fixing issues.

They are not for practicing your trial run for bragging rights.

And we tested a new trial from day one on PTS, reported bugs, experienced every change ZOS made inside trial, so now you guys can run a new trial on live in a relatively good state compared to some bugs we were struggling with on PTS.

And you know how they could have organized in a fairer way while achieving the same result? Make PTS trial access random and put it under NDA! Then grant that random access to 10% of ESO population. This way, not more than 1 person from Hodor should get access. Then there would not only be fair competition, but the testing would be unbiased as well, because elite players would have to team up with raiders from other guilds that were lucky to receive an invite.

Then there would be no Hodor ***, boasting about completion of the hardest content, 45 min after launch, while keeping their tactics secret from the community, not uploading the full video, patting themselves on the shoulder. "Hodor is so good! Well done, guys!"

Yes, Hodor is good. But they should have started tryharding the trial as a group yesterday, like everyone else.

Love Wizard

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

Praetorrus wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Seriously.

Betas are for testing and finding/fixing issues.

They are not for practicing your trial run for bragging rights.

And we tested a new trial from day one on PTS, reported bugs, experienced every change ZOS made inside trial, so now you guys can run a new trial on live in a relatively good state compared to some bugs we were struggling with on PTS.

And you know how they could have organized in a fairer way while achieving the same result? Make PTS trial access random and put it under NDA! Then grant that random access to 10% of ESO population. This way, not more than 1 person from Hodor should get access. Then there would not only be fair competition, but the testing would be unbiased as well, because elite players would have to team up with raiders from other guilds that were lucky to receive an invite.

Then there would be no Hodor ***, boasting about completion of the hardest content, 45 min after launch, while keeping their tactics secret from the community, not uploading the full video, patting themselves on the shoulder. "Hodor is so good! Well done, guys!"

Yes, Hodor is good. But they should have started tryharding the trial as a group yesterday, like everyone else.

I don't see why you're so angry about this, if you invited 10% at random, then you wouldn't even get a proper trial team together to even contend the trial. And, lastly, what we do and do not do with our tactics, is completely up to ourselves. And yes, I think hodor is a relatively good raiding guild, considering our results upon the years.

Feanor

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

Praetorrus wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Seriously.

Betas are for testing and finding/fixing issues.

They are not for practicing your trial run for bragging rights.

And we tested a new trial from day one on PTS, reported bugs, experienced every change ZOS made inside trial, so now you guys can run a new trial on live in a relatively good state compared to some bugs we were struggling with on PTS.

And you know how they could have organized in a fairer way while achieving the same result? Make PTS trial access random and put it under NDA! Then grant that random access to 10% of ESO population. This way, not more than 1 person from Hodor should get access. Then there would not only be fair competition, but the testing would be unbiased as well, because elite players would have to team up with raiders from other guilds that were lucky to receive an invite.

Then there would be no Hodor ***, boasting about completion of the hardest content, 45 min after launch, while keeping their tactics secret from the community, not uploading the full video, patting themselves on the shoulder. "Hodor is so good! Well done, guys!"

Yes, Hodor is good. But they should have started tryharding the trial as a group yesterday, like everyone else.

Random access to 10% of ESOs population? That’s the best way to ensure mechanics can’t be tested properly because they aren’t even displayed due to wipes...

LegendaryArcher

Feanor wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

Praetorrus wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Seriously.

Betas are for testing and finding/fixing issues.

They are not for practicing your trial run for bragging rights.

And we tested a new trial from day one on PTS, reported bugs, experienced every change ZOS made inside trial, so now you guys can run a new trial on live in a relatively good state compared to some bugs we were struggling with on PTS.

And you know how they could have organized in a fairer way while achieving the same result? Make PTS trial access random and put it under NDA! Then grant that random access to 10% of ESO population. This way, not more than 1 person from Hodor should get access. Then there would not only be fair competition, but the testing would be unbiased as well, because elite players would have to team up with raiders from other guilds that were lucky to receive an invite.

Then there would be no Hodor ***, boasting about completion of the hardest content, 45 min after launch, while keeping their tactics secret from the community, not uploading the full video, patting themselves on the shoulder. "Hodor is so good! Well done, guys!"

Yes, Hodor is good. But they should have started tryharding the trial as a group yesterday, like everyone else.

Random access to 10% of ESOs population? That’s the best way to ensure mechanics can’t be tested properly because they aren’t even displayed due to wipes...

So you think if one person from Hodor, one from Mechanically Challenged, one from Roar of Alkosh, one from Hellfire Dominion, one from Lion's Guard, and so on, come together to test the new trial, they will have no chance just because it's not Hodor? Please...

There are tons of groups running vAS+2 without troubles. The only thing this system would do is break the closed Hodor circle on PTS. And whichever Hodor member is lucky enough to get access, will have to team up with players from other raiding guilds.

Feanor

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

Praetorrus wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Seriously.

Betas are for testing and finding/fixing issues.

They are not for practicing your trial run for bragging rights.

And we tested a new trial from day one on PTS, reported bugs, experienced every change ZOS made inside trial, so now you guys can run a new trial on live in a relatively good state compared to some bugs we were struggling with on PTS.

And you know how they could have organized in a fairer way while achieving the same result? Make PTS trial access random and put it under NDA! Then grant that random access to 10% of ESO population. This way, not more than 1 person from Hodor should get access. Then there would not only be fair competition, but the testing would be unbiased as well, because elite players would have to team up with raiders from other guilds that were lucky to receive an invite.

Then there would be no Hodor ***, boasting about completion of the hardest content, 45 min after launch, while keeping their tactics secret from the community, not uploading the full video, patting themselves on the shoulder. "Hodor is so good! Well done, guys!"

Yes, Hodor is good. But they should have started tryharding the trial as a group yesterday, like everyone else.

Random access to 10% of ESOs population? That’s the best way to ensure mechanics can’t be tested properly because they aren’t even displayed due to wipes...

So you think if one person from Hodor, one from Mechanically Challenged, one from Roar of Alkosh, one from Hellfire Dominion, one from Lion's Guard, and so on, come together to test the new trial, they will have no chance just because it's not Hodor? Please...

There are tons of groups running vAS+2 without troubles. The only thing this system would do is break the closed Hodor circle on PTS. And whichever Hodor member is lucky enough to get access, will have to team up with players from other raiding guilds.

Yes they would be able to test the trial in that case. It’s just not random access to 10% of ESOs population then.

I still don’t get why this is a closed Hodor circle that needs to be broken. You contradict yourself. You say there are tons of groups capable of running vAS HM. Why don’t they just log on to the PTS in that case? Every guild that is interested could test on PTS.

Peekachu99

Love Wizard wrote: »

Thought I'd do a little writeup since there's alot of misconceptions about how things work, and my personal opinion about how things needs to be adjusted, and addressed.

First and foremost, an incentive to do end game raiding, and most and foremost, and incentive to compete for scores.
As it stands right now, there's a few active raiding guilds going for scores, and hardmode clears and such, on each server, and this is just simply not enough. It's been like this for a long time actually, and it's something that needs to be done something about. I personally find that ESO has alot of nice content to offer when it comes to endgame raiding, and its a shame they're not being used to their full potential. I don't care what the incentive is, but there needs to be something to get people into this. The Asylum Sanctorium extremely rare skin drop was a good incentive I feel like, and im not sure why they haven't opted for the same thing for Cloudrest. Right now in Cloudrest, after you clear it for the skin, there's NOTHING to achieve there anymore! There's some neat sets, but thats about it! I've brought this up on mulitple threads, without Zenimax even bothering, yes bothering, to give a decent reply to it.

The other issue at hand, is the PTS issues. When all of you say that its bullsh*t that the we got to practice the trial on PTS for weeks, and weeks, I completely agree with you, its a flawed system. But as it stands, I don't think ZoS has a capable QA team to do the testing themselves, to ensure that the content brought to you on live, is flawless, free of bugs. Hodor as a guild in it self, reported a huge ammount of bugs that were all fixed more or less on live, and this is important. We can look back to Maw of Lorkahj PTS, the reason it took so long for this to be cleared, was for one, it was actually a very mechanicly challenging trial back in the day, and for two, the PTS was utter chaos! We didn't have capped cp, we didnt have the best sets, we crashed ALL the time, we disconnected, and so on! The trial ended up dropping with a few bugs, but overall, Maw of Lorkahj has been ZoS best DLC trial by FAR. Im not sure what we as a community can do, and im not sure what ZoS can do to ensure that the trial doesn't get beaten on first day, to ensure that the trial is flawless in terms of bugs, and to make sure that the trial is the right difficulty.

The last issue at hand I want to bring up, is minitrials. Whilst I understand ZoS will more or less probably profit more with minitrials, you have to understand that they are just dull, boring and in give or take half a year, cloudrest will be dead content! I think I speak on the behalf of the community when I say this, and DEFINETLY on behalf of the endgame raiding scene, full scale trials are much more fun, much more challenging, and overall, the better fit. It also hinders progression for example on the PTS, as guilds will be stuck on various bosses for potential weeks, having to figure them out. Having just one boss fight, just simplifies too much. We want trashpacks, we want multiple bosses that scale in difficulty, and we don't want to be stood in a single boss room for the entirety of the trial!

For those of us that don't think our clear is worthy of being called a worlds first, you're completely entitled to having your own opinion about how rightful this clear is, whetever it being we practiced it on the PTS, our patch dropped whilst americans were working, or something else. But I want you to know, if you're angry with how things are, then please direct that anger to Zenimax, where it belongs, and lets try to fix things, and make them better.

- @IWM

I agree with a lot of what you’ve said and have been saying it myself: the testing environment is poor in general (lacking platforms, full access to content, hardly anyone participating in what matters and just doing dummy-parses). I also think—and have been saying since the game launched—that we need better social tools to encourage people to even get into what is a microscopic raiding scene. I mean, you literally see the same names every week on the Leaderboards. There’s what? Like five to ten guilds on every platform that clear Vet Trials on a regular basis and that’s it? That’s pitiful, and it’s a wonder they’re even developing content for a section of the playerbase that’s so small.

And you’re right, people should direct their criticism (not rage—at least not from me) at ZOS, who are the ultimate orchestrators and arbiters of how things play out. Still, what of Hodor’s voice? As arguably the largest and most active Trials guild in ESO why aren’t you aggressively advocating for better testing, better social tools, better improvements to UI and Guilds? And if you are, why isn’t that advocacy posted as frequently as your clears? Why are you even clearing content you know is flawed? If you’re in the leadership position and supposedly unhappy with the status quo, you should be leading a calm rebellion, not sitting with Marie Antoinette eating cake and then telling the plebes it’s really not all it’s cracked up to be (but we’ll see you next week for tea, Marie!).

Praetorrus

Aluneth wrote: »

The problem isn't that they get to clear the raid on PTS, this is common practice with most MMORPGs. The major problem is that the content isn't difficult enough. The top guilds in WoW spend hundreds of hours testing the raid on PTS, and it still takes the best guilds in the game 3-7 weeks to clear the last boss on the hardest difficulty. That's 3+ weeks of 12+ hours a day dying to the bosses. A boss fight (often the last few) can easily take over 10 minutes, and the best guilds commonly wipe between 200 to 500 times. This is the hardest difficulty of the raid. There are lower difficulties that are much easier, and for the more 'casual player'.

Sorry, but I was a top raider in WoW many years ago and what you wrote is generally not true in most cases.

Aluneth wrote: »

The US get to play the raid a day before the rest of the world, and it still doesn't make a difference, as it's almost always the best EU guilds that end up taking the worlds first, after weeks in the raid. You do spend some of that time to gear up the players, and this isn't needed with the gear progression we have in ESO. It still shouldn't go down within the first hour.

Well, games are different. From my PoV, ESO gear system is much more fair to newbies in a competition, because as you pointed yourself, we cleared the new trial without a single item from it, without new skills, with our old gear, in an hour. So, technically everybody else could do it, they just didn't bother. So why blaming us? In WoW, especially in early days of vanilla you just could't catch up to top guilds as if you started your progression later then them, you were basically always behind, because you needed those months to grind the gear to be able to step into new content.

Aluneth wrote: »

There is no doubt that the most hardcore players in WoW are leagues ahead of the best players in ESO, and it still takes them that long time to clear the hardest content.

Yeah, the last time I checked, my former buddies in WoW cleared the Legion raid in a first day.

CyberSkooma

I agree on needing better incentive for trials. I played in beta and bought the game early 2015 and I only just did my first trials this past week because there was no reason for me ever to do them... now, I love them. But now that I've done them I have basically no incentive to go back.

I ran nCR, and now need to run vCR, but after that happens I don't see any need to go back to it.
What I will say is I appreciate the "mini-trial" thing that cloudrest has going on. All the fights are RIGHT THERE, and I like that.

About incentives.... mounts. Give like, a 20% chance to drop a special mount only obtainable from, for example, Vet Cloudrest. Could you imagine how much more popular trials would be if people knew they could get a mount from it? They'd be huge I tell you, HUUUUUGE! Possible chance at a griffin mount for a hardmode clear? dude.

AlienatedGoat

Vahrokh wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

hregrin wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

My deal is that Hodor and other progression guilds abuse the PTS for their own benefit, and then brag about it.

Maybe it's what they get for playtesting/bug catching for us all? Not many players are able to do it for that kind of content...

If they were focused on playtesting/bugcatching, we wouldn't have the exploits problems in vAS.

They aren't focused on that at all. They just care about bragging rights.

Hodor tests game play, not against exploits. They certainly don't need nor want to spend their testing time finding the right pixel that allows unskilled cheaters to exploit a flaw.

That's oversimplification, and false. The two vAS exploits were painfully simple and obvious once discovered.

These groups could've found them. They were more focused on perfecting their runs.

Sorry, but this argument that they do real testing is BS. You can't convince me that they both do good testing and also obsessively perfect their trials run at the same time.

Tasear

Though I don't even like alcast, (>.> that sorc healer build)

I congratulate you guys on your team efforts. I feel the need to admire how much commitment it must take to achieve greater heights. I am one to explore and enjoy random situations, but I do appreciate those who take it in different height. You show us the potential the game has for us. Though still going argue with anyone who says it's only way. Well either way, you guys our our elite, so how can nobody not be proud.

If was an different e-sports or maybe an physical sport, then maybe things would be different.You guys honestly deserve more respect. Though maybe it would be better to show your struggles to add to the tale. Surely you guys were working on this on pts too. Give us some more human factor with words of wisedom. I would assume the Z that spotted is, because people don't understand the efforts and the commitment.

Also I noticed a general trend of a fear of elitism that lead people to despise the elite. It's same as my fear, if you guys say this is meta then it is. (I really seen this on discord) So don't forget to be humbled by what you achieved. Though don't forget to to pat yourself on the back as you are word the censor won't allow me to express, but in a sense I think of ghost rider and doing the impossible yet living to tale to tell. It's admirable and cool. Just keep in mind others will wish to follow in your footsteps, but in various ways. It might take us hours to achieve glory which we seek to achieve, and hard mode may be a dream let alone speed runs. Well as to say as our mentors in the subject, don't lets down or look down on us.

Some outrage is I imagine is because we wish to follow your path or we fear the path you guys have made will restrict the path we made. The desire for freedom is strong in this game or we won't have warden dps or dragon knight healers . So I speak for the unsightly voices and the exploring types, please enjoy your achievement, but don't restrict voices that may follow. ESO allows to much freedom, so strange things will happen from myself encentric healer, to upcoming tanks to end game let us respect each and admire the different things we all well achieve. As line goes there's 10 million stories to tell.


P.S
@Love Wizard you have my deep respect... as you could except the nasty and mild cheers that followed. So if I haven't said it properly enough congrats, and thanks for sharing.

Chicharron

I do not understand why the hate.

if it's not important to you, what are you doing here?

All i know is that thanks to this no lifers and their guides, e.g. Psijic Order Leveling Guide, and soon Cloudrest Trial guide, etc.

They save me a lot of time, and for that I will be eternally grateful.

Tasear

spam?

Well this a different subject,

I kinda thing these kinda of achievements shouldn't be limited to leadboards or become obscure in fourms. They should be a bit more respected. Not just coming to talk to devs, but more to leaving more of an history mark. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom maybe things guys could be interviewed and reported on for the front page in battle corner or something? It would help people understand the story of struggle and glory better. It's not like these guys magically got good over night.

Azurya

GZ, well done!
I admire your dedication, and wished I had a little more time to come at least close^^
And thanks for sharing your insights here!

ZOS_Mika

We have recently removed several more insulting and unnecessary comments from this thread. While it is fine to disagree, insults and baiting are inappropriate. Keep this in mind as the discussion continues.

Tasear

Chicharron wrote: »

I do not understand why the hate.

if it's not important to you, what are you doing here?

All i know is that thanks to this no lifers and their guides, e.g. Psijic Order Leveling Guide, and soon Cloudrest Trial guide, etc.

They save me a lot of time, and for that I will be eternally grateful.

no lifers is mean, I think that's same mistake others are making. These guys are no different professionals in reality who show a strong commitment to something.

Shadowmaster

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Congrats all!

As said on Twitter to Alcast though. I have a lot of respect to the dedication and effort you all put into these clears, but at the same time it's very disappointing to see content being beaten on the first day (or hour) of a new update.

I kind of agree, but then again imagine if the best players like them couldn't clear it. The vast majority of the player base still can't clear older vet trials which are easier.

There was a good few months where no one but Da Funk had cleared hard mode vHR

code65536

I don't understand why so many people in this thread say that the PTS is an unfair advantage. That argument is appallingly illogical.

The PTS is not something that only Hodor has. EVERY PC player has access to the PTS. Hodor was not the only guild to practice on the PTS. Multiple other guilds practiced on the PTS. Multiple groups got +2 clears and worked on practicing +3. The difference is that Hodor spent more time practicing on the PTS than anyone else (I ran vet CR only two or three times on the PTS because I am not competitive and frankly didn't care).

How is any of that different than what happens on Live? If the trial was seen for the first time on Live, then a guild that can devote 20 hours per week to practicing it will likely get the clear sooner than an equally-skilled guild that can only put in 10 hours per week. It is entirely irrelevant whether that practice happens on Live or on the PTS.

This is what will happen if the asinine and irrational suggestions to stop PTS testing are implemented:

• The trial will be launched with many issues, and the trial will be in flux for weeks after launch as ZOS scrambles to make adjustments and fix things.
• "World First" will happen later for everyone, but it'll still be a function of who can invest the most amount of time into practicing and experimenting with strategies.

In reality, the race for "World First" started as soon as the PTS went up. So much of the furor stems from this bizarre notion that the race should start on the Live date. Again, every PC player has the same access to the PTS. No guild has an unfair or added advantage thanks to the PTS because every one of their competitors have the same access. If Hodor's competitors didn't make use of that PTS as much, due to player availability, scheduling constraints, lack of interest, etc., those are all things that would've affected them on Live as well.

The only people who are really disadvantaged as Console players. But, their Live release date is weeks later anyway, and they have a myriad of other innate disadvantages, and frankly, nobody compares Console to PC because of those differences. In the case of Console players, PTS is just one item in a large pile of disadvantages of their inferior platform.

Valen_Byte

The term "Worlds First" is made up. Its not a real achievement. Why? Because we dont have an even starting line. The race is on but everyone has a different starting time. The fact that Hodor or any other guild practiced is irrelevant. The problem is that the race has drastically different start times for each guild who wants to go for it. Zos knows this, thats why there are no official 'worlds first' tittles or chieves.

Maybe they could just lock the trials for 1-2 days after the patch/dlc/expantion w/e goes live. That way there would be a set time and date that all trial guilds would know. That would be a fair, clean start to a race.

I dont run trials. I ran one, once. lol So I really dont have a dog in this fight. I do however, believe in fair competition to keep everyone honest.