Imbue weapons may need a nerf.

Minalan

Pros: it does seem to hit a little harder with the guaranteed elemental status effect.

Cons: it counts as one attack for purposes of reflect and shimmering shield. At least Force pulse can’t be reflected, and that balances it.

Micah_Bayer

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Micah_Bayer

Then report it, record a video on the PTS / get a screenshot showing that it deals full tool-tip damage against shields in Battle Spirit areas. Post it here. That will move things forward past this bickering.

If it truly is a bug, and you're absolutely certain of it, post it here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/407091/pts-update-18-bug-reports-for-combat-balance-abilities#latest

I just reported it imbue definitely hits shields for tool tip value.

Minalan wrote: »

Pros: it does seem to hit a little harder with the guaranteed elemental status effect.

Cons: it counts as one attack for purposes of reflect and shimmering shield. At least Force pulse can’t be reflected, and that balances it.

finally someonne admits it hits harder, thank you. These people were on something.

Maulkin

Minalan wrote: »

Pros: it does seem to hit a little harder with the guaranteed elemental status effect.

Cons: it counts as one attack for purposes of reflect and shimmering shield. At least Force pulse can’t be reflected, and that balances it.

There's more to it.

Force Pulse has higher penetration due to destro passives and thus hits harder on non-shielded targets.

However EW is cheaper and does not require a destro staff. Also applies the Spell Charge every 5th attack.

Micah_Bayer

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Pros: it does seem to hit a little harder with the guaranteed elemental status effect.

Cons: it counts as one attack for purposes of reflect and shimmering shield. At least Force pulse can’t be reflected, and that balances it.

There's more to it.

Force Pulse has higher penetration due to destro passives and thus hits harder on non-shielded targets.

However EW is cheaper and does not require a destro staff. Also applies the Spell Charge every 5th attack.

with the status effect going, it is safe to say you are still hitting harder

deevah

@Micah_Bayer isn't the real concern that EW > LA > any other spammable provides the dmg of 2 spammables in a single GCD? With curse that's a lot of burst.

Waffennacht

deevah wrote: »

@Micah_Bayer isn't the real concern that EW > LA > any other spammable provides the dmg of 2 spammables in a single GCD? With curse that's a lot of burst.

The imbue takes up a GCD, so while it is more burst, it's the same amount of GCDs.

Of all the things coming out, imbue is not the biggest deal.

deevah

Waffennacht wrote: »

deevah wrote: »

@Micah_Bayer isn't the real concern that EW > LA > any other spammable provides the dmg of 2 spammables in a single GCD? With curse that's a lot of burst.

The imbue takes up a GCD, so while it is more burst, it's the same amount of GCDs.

Of all the things coming out, imbue is not the biggest deal.

I realize it takes a GCD; I'm referring to the advantage of casting two spammables over two GCDs and having the damage land within one GCD. If I could cast force pulse / swallow soul / take-your-pick twice and have all the damage go out on the second cast, I'd be rofl-stomping people left-and-right.

Mic1007

The only problem I have with this skill is that it's discouraging melee DPS even more. It's a really strong spammable for both Stamina and Magicka DPS that is also ranged.

Throw us who play melee some sort of bone ZOS!

Avran_Sylt

@deevah

That's part of the reason it has quite a significant tell in both the animation it plays, and the glow around your weapons. In 1v1 duels this should allow players to see that this next LA/attack combo is best roll-dodged/shielded.

When you're zerging someone or catching them by surprise however, then it becomes more of an issue. However, I find that scenario to be less of a concern.

Ragnaroek93

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It doesn't hit higher than force pulse, but it has more peak damage because a crit on it is more likely than a crit on all three hits from Force Pulse.

I don't know if it's overperforming, I would say that it is a bit, but on the other side the skill is nice and increases the build diversity. And Force Pulse is a pretty bad spammable overall in my opinion.

@Ragnaroek93

At the same time it has an overall lower average damage as it either crits, or it doesn't. FP has three rolls at crits to increase its damage from the base. (Not to mention three different instances in which to proc % based effects)

The average damage should be the same, the average deviation on damage is different on both skills. Since peak damage is important in PvP I would go with Imbue Weapons tho.

I still don't want to see the skill nerfed into uselessness because currently it enables spammables for skill lines which lack a good one (bow, restostaff for example).

exeeter702

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Jsmalls

Right, but at the same time the animation is a huge tell unless you're going to anim-cancel, even then the weapons glow intensely. The skill sets off the GCD so the time that you spent casting and buffing your next LA is time that the enemy is not taking damage.

@Micah_Bayer

If the skill is hitting for tooltip value against shields, then its a bug, as even against shields the damage should be halved via Battle Spirit.

Then it is a bug. This skill destroys shields..Like hardcore. 30k shields here. one of those, a light attack and curse should not deal 30k

Then frame your point of concern appropriately. Maybe something like..

"not sure if im testing this right or missing something, but it appears IW is ignoring BS when damaging into shields, anyone else able to confirm?"

Instead of shouting nonsense about the skill being grossly overpowered and making completely nonsensical examples and comparisons.

Murador178

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Pros: it does seem to hit a little harder with the guaranteed elemental status effect.

Cons: it counts as one attack for purposes of reflect and shimmering shield. At least Force pulse can’t be reflected, and that balances it.

There's more to it.

Force Pulse has higher penetration due to destro passives and thus hits harder on non-shielded targets.

However EW is cheaper and does not require a destro staff. Also applies the Spell Charge every 5th attack.

with the status effect going, it is safe to say you are still hitting harder

Im the sorc (sorc pts) u fought yesterday with imbue. It has 8914 tooltip on my mSorc completely unbuffed. While force pulse has (3045+3045+3153)=9243 completely unbuffed.
But peak damage is because of 1 spell vs 3 higher and its 400 magicka cheap(allowing for less regen). But u will need to slot a destro spell on the bar for the 8% extra damage of fire staff. It also gives u access to some psijik passives -like the spellshield.

But my spell is rank 1, since im too lazy to grind anything on the pts - maybe tooltip will go up?

And no the skill doesnt do full damage on shields - at least not when im using it, just double checked on the pts.

exeeter702

deevah wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

deevah wrote: »

@Micah_Bayer isn't the real concern that EW > LA > any other spammable provides the dmg of 2 spammables in a single GCD? With curse that's a lot of burst.

The imbue takes up a GCD, so while it is more burst, it's the same amount of GCDs.

Of all the things coming out, imbue is not the biggest deal.

I realize it takes a GCD; I'm referring to the advantage of casting two spammables over two GCDs and having the damage land within one GCD. If I could cast force pulse / swallow soul / take-your-pick twice and have all the damage go out on the second cast, I'd be rofl-stomping people left-and-right.

Well yes, its front loaded but much more telegraphed, that is the trade off the devs are going for. When you successfully defend against the incoming imbued LA that is a greater victory than defending against 1 of 2 abilities across 2 GCDs.

Noobslayer3255

this ability is ridiculously strong, adding huge burst to any class, particularly if they already use a spammable. Pre-cast this then it will hit when you weave your next light attack + spammable.


I was able to get the tooltip quite high on my stam sorc:




the burst it's adding to my stamblade is hilarious:


that's about 46k burst (pre battle spirit) without imbued weapons critting. Even more burst when I weave it with Incap

Avran_Sylt

@Noobslayer3255

I see you're using Molag Kenna Overkill.

What sets are you running?

Kenna, Clever Alch, Automaton, WD enchant?

We're talking about unbuffed damage.

Jsmalls

@Noobslayer3255

And that's EXACTLY what I'm concerned about. I'm not very concerned 1v1 because of the telegraph. But 1vX, gg respawn. Not cool.

Lughlongarm

For magicka - Not sure how pvp effective it will be with all the projectile defense that are in the game(reflect/absorb etc...).
Most of the other magicka spammables don't have this weakness.

PVE is a different story, for magicka this skill is king.

For stamina- this is a nice edition some classes and weapon combos are lacking a spammable(stamina DW sorc for example), also many bow builds don't have a real spammable.

Avran_Sylt

@Noobslayer3255

Any anyway, why would you want to use LA+IW if you're gonna burst with Incap? LA+SA instead to also apply Major Fracture. Its more damage anyway. Bonus points if you do it from cloak, stunning them and setting the off-balance, granting you an additional 10% damage (if you got the CP), and making sure that they can't escape the Incap coming right up.

Noobslayer3255

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Noobslayer3255

I see you're using Molag Kenna Overkill.

What sets are you running?

Kenna, Clever Alch, Automaton, WD enchant?

We're talking about unbuffed damage.

2x kena, 5 veiled inheritance, 5 automaton. pretty typical stam sorc build except you'd usually see troll king instead of kena, but it's very easy to proc the kena. Considering all the damage light attacks do now, combined with imbued weapons, you could run a freakin kena procing light attack build and burst people down.

Rjizzle09

Naw here we go again with something being strong in pvp so it deserves a nerf. I'm so sick if that. Its a really good ability fir pve users but people want it nerfed now because of burst potential? Youre worried about imbue weapons killing you? lol My guy there are way worse things that can one shot you these days with all the combos that came to light because of jewelry crafting. Im so dome with the whole nerf something in pve cause its too strong in pvp. Weve had a whole slew of nerfs because of that so enough is enough. Leave pve out of this

Noobslayer3255

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Noobslayer3255

Any anyway, why would you want to use LA+IW if you're gonna burst with Incap? .

I am very confused by your post, why wouldn't you want to add burst on to your combo?

You can burst someone from cloak with light attack + imbued proc + incap without them even seeing you until they all land. it's like adding a surprise attack that automatically hits with your light attack. Just cast imbue then cloak up and do your combo as you normally would, except now you have imbue procing with your light attack weave.


As for the rest of your post, what? Yes I'm aware surprise attack applies major fracture, as I am also aware surprise attacking an enemy from cloak sets them off balance and CCs them. That literally has nothing to do with what I am saying. Add imbue to any combination of attacks, doesn't matter which, it just adds filthy burst. But the biggest burst combo would be LA + imbue proc + incap.

Avran_Sylt

@Noobslayer3255

Imbued breaks cloak. Least it has since I last tested it.

MaxwellC

@Micah_Bayer
I've tested it in PvP and yeah it hits for an extra 3k or so... So how would that be broken? I can light attack and have a poison inject DoT deal better damage at most levels.

technohic

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

Naw here we go again with something being strong in pvp so it deserves a nerf. I'm so sick if that. Its a really good ability fir pve users but people want it nerfed now because of burst potential? Youre worried about imbue weapons killing you? lol My guy there are way worse things that can one shot you these days with all the combos that came to light because of jewelry crafting. Im so dome with the whole nerf something in pve cause its too strong in pvp. Weve had a whole slew of nerfs because of that so enough is enough. Leave pve out of this

Well; I would like it to be an option and a cool ability to use, but I wouldnt want it to become the only spammable desired. Regardless of PvP or PvE, thats what we have to watch out for. Otherwise, might as well just get rid of skills all together and just give people templates for each class.

Avran_Sylt

@Noobslayer3255

And also, while this does make your instantaneous damage higher, you'll get more damage from LA+SA+LA+Incap than you would LA+IW+LA+Incap

The question is if you want your burst to be in one GCD or two. I find that the SA route is better as it's less telegraphed, even though it's in 2 GCD.

Noobslayer3255

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Noobslayer3255

Imbued breaks cloak. Least it has since I last tested it.

just cast it then cloak. 2 seconds is plenty of time to get off a light attack.

regardless, cloak is entirely optional and really has nothing to do with what I am talking about here. The fact of the matter is this ability adds insane burst to any combo. Instead of casting a surprise attack and not being able to cast another until the global cooldown is over, now, I can cast imbue, then on my next LA + SA weave my imbue is also hitting during that same window, which is much stronger than a surprise attack hitting during the prior GCD, as all the damage hits at once, making it harder to doge or heal through.

Noobslayer3255

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Noobslayer3255

And also, while this does make your instantaneous damage higher, you'll get more damage from LA+SA+LA+Incap than you would LA+IW+LA+Incap

The question is if you want your burst to be in one GCD or two. I find that the SA route is better as it's less telegraphed, even though it's in 2 GCD.

yea we are on the same page here then, it's being able to pre cast imbue then have all that damage hit in one GCD which gives it devastating potential

Avran_Sylt

@Noobslayer3255

I have mate. I was almost positive I could wring this in to be a great asset to my MagNB Bomblade. It's possible to hit the light attack out of cloak, but you have to be spamming that light attack button. Any error and it will fizzle out. Add that to the lag in PvP and It's going to be an absolute nightmare to pull off consistently unless you macro it.

You also forfeit the added bonus of the stun and Off-balance opportunity from CW/SA

Avran_Sylt

@Noobslayer3255

Casting it = 1 GCD
Cloak = 2 GCD (2s till LA is availible)
that light attack has to be perfectly queued and the enemy has to be right next to you to even have a chance at procing it.

Avran_Sylt

Noobslayer3255 wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Noobslayer3255

And also, while this does make your instantaneous damage higher, you'll get more damage from LA+SA+LA+Incap than you would LA+IW+LA+Incap

The question is if you want your burst to be in one GCD or two. I find that the SA route is better as it's less telegraphed, even though it's in 2 GCD.

yea we are on the same page here then, it's being able to pre cast imbue then have all that damage hit in one GCD which gives it devastating potential

Right, right. Though the telegraph is mainly why I don't have a problem with this ability being able to be stacked onto the next GCD attack. If a player is smart, they can roll-dodge and you just wasted two attacks for the cost of only one of their defensive measures.