Imbue weapons may need a nerf.

Berenhir

Joy_Division wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Joy_Division

"Xv1 died a long long time ago, but this skill isn;t making that situation neither better or worse because it's just a skill that does comparable damage to other spammable skills. If that is not the case, what am I missing? I'm not saying you're wrong, I am saying what do you see that I don't?"

My concern is the added burst it gives you in combination with spammables. If you cast it like a buff (which by all means it is) and then use it on the next GCD with another spammable aka surprise attack, then in that GCD you'll be doing 2 abilities worth of damage in 1 GCD. Yes it does require setup, yes it does require a "wasted" GCD, and yes there are signs that the enemy is doing such an action. But in Xv1 that setup is easy, that "wasted" GCD is insignificant, and the signs of you setting up are harder to see. I'd personally rather get hit in two consecutive GCDs for 5k damage each than one GCD for 10k damage in a Xv1 scenario.

In my opinion the damage potential is similar to that of a curse + frag combo but instead of every 4 GCDs can be performed every 2 GCD, and instead of relying on a frag to proc it's just your normal spammable.

Im an Xbox player who doesn't have access to PTS so all I have to go on are theory crafted scenarios. Just seems problematic to me.

I still don't understand how your concern: Imbue (buff) + light attack + spammable [2 GCDs] is worse than what can already be done on Live: light attack + spammable + light attack + spammable [2 GCDs].

Most of the people who are on the PTS have don't have an issue with it. Combining it with sorc overload I do agree is problematic, but that's a specific issue that ZoS can prevent from happening.

There are certain classes (not templars ) for which high incoming burst is a very problematic issue to handle. This is specifically true for sorcs. Their defense is tied to proactively casting defensive abilities (shields) with a limited effectiveness.

The problem here is that - in addition to the overall pressure that was added with summerset magicka light attack damage increase - imbue weapons allows to double the damage a shield takes within one second.
While recasting (stacking) shields under moderate pressure is possible, the increased damage and burst made it much more probable for sorcs in outnumbered situations (read: in Cyrodiil) to get bursted through their shields, take damage to their health and thus be subject to increased damage from execute abilities and/or execute procs including poison injection and endless fury.

This issue will only be even more problematic in high latency scenarios. The world won't end but while many sorcs are very happy and looking forward to the rune cage and imbue changes, most of them did not notice their defense has taken a big hit.

The OP did somehow notice and ranted on the forums without giving much structure to their argument.

Jowrik

Mic1007 wrote: »

The only problem I have with this skill is that it's discouraging melee DPS even more. It's a really strong spammable for both Stamina and Magicka DPS that is also ranged.

Throw us who play melee some sort of bone ZOS!

Melee already has plenty of spammables. My Bow has one: SNIPE. I guess I don't have to point out why that sucks.

Joy_Division

Berenhir wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Joy_Division

"Xv1 died a long long time ago, but this skill isn;t making that situation neither better or worse because it's just a skill that does comparable damage to other spammable skills. If that is not the case, what am I missing? I'm not saying you're wrong, I am saying what do you see that I don't?"

My concern is the added burst it gives you in combination with spammables. If you cast it like a buff (which by all means it is) and then use it on the next GCD with another spammable aka surprise attack, then in that GCD you'll be doing 2 abilities worth of damage in 1 GCD. Yes it does require setup, yes it does require a "wasted" GCD, and yes there are signs that the enemy is doing such an action. But in Xv1 that setup is easy, that "wasted" GCD is insignificant, and the signs of you setting up are harder to see. I'd personally rather get hit in two consecutive GCDs for 5k damage each than one GCD for 10k damage in a Xv1 scenario.

In my opinion the damage potential is similar to that of a curse + frag combo but instead of every 4 GCDs can be performed every 2 GCD, and instead of relying on a frag to proc it's just your normal spammable.

Im an Xbox player who doesn't have access to PTS so all I have to go on are theory crafted scenarios. Just seems problematic to me.

I still don't understand how your concern: Imbue (buff) + light attack + spammable [2 GCDs] is worse than what can already be done on Live: light attack + spammable + light attack + spammable [2 GCDs].

Most of the people who are on the PTS have don't have an issue with it. Combining it with sorc overload I do agree is problematic, but that's a specific issue that ZoS can prevent from happening.

There are certain classes (not templars ) for which high incoming burst is a very problematic issue to handle. This is specifically true for sorcs. Their defense is tied to proactively casting defensive abilities (shields) with a limited effectiveness.

The problem here is that - in addition to the overall pressure that was added with summerset magicka light attack damage increase - imbue weapons allows to double the damage a shield takes within one second.
While recasting (stacking) shields under moderate pressure is possible, the increased damage and burst made it much more probable for sorcs in outnumbered situations (read: in Cyrodiil) to get bursted through their shields, take damage to their health and thus be subject to increased damage from execute abilities and/or execute procs including poison injection and endless fury.

This issue will only be even more problematic in high latency scenarios. The world won't end but while many sorcs are very happy and looking forward to the rune cage and imbue changes, most of them did not notice their defense has taken a big hit.

The OP did somehow notice and ranted on the forums without giving much structure to their argument.

But you are explaining it disingenuously. You are only taking "double the damage" because the second before you took half the damage. You are still taking the same amount of damage.

What do you want ZoS to do? Nerf the skill so it sucks and only does 50% of the damage it does now? Nobody will ever use it because it still costs about the same resources as a spammable and still costs a GCD. Doing so will completely make the skill useless and every PVEers who comes onto these forums and says that their game is ruined by PvP whining will be 1000000% correct in this instance.

Masel

@Micah_Bayer,

The people here telling you that it is not factored in as light attack damage are right.

Take elemental weapon for example, the light attacks are either frost shock or fire. Elemental weapon adds magic damage, so how is it not a separate damage entity?

It simply does not get buffed by flat or percentage based light attack damage buffs, such as empower, maelstrom staves, undaunted infiltrator etc. It is a SEPARATE damage entity that is applied with you next light attack, it does not allow for more or less burst than force pulse, surprise attack or any other spammable.

Of course it scales with max stats and damage stats, because everything in the game does that is not a proc set with a fixed Base value.

How do I know? I tested it. It does not need a nerf. It is actually nice to have a ranged spammable for all builds now that is not weak. Bow/Bow users get healing from it. It is none to weave. Don't ruin it with false information.

evoniee

Noobslayer3255 wrote: »

@Avran_Sylt

but you dont need to be cloaked for it to be effective.

this was on my stamblade with a normal, 4.8k weapon damage build (including master bow and weapon enchant which are up all the time on my stamblade)


just look at the time stamps, it's insane! 46k damage in .25 seconds, all i did was pre cast imbue, swing a sword and weave surprise attack. no need to get the cc from cloak or any CC at all, all of this lands at once. If they survive it, a fear + incap will all but guarantee a kill. It's just crazy burst.

I love playing medium stamblade just bursting people down, hell I used to run viper, widowmaker, and selene, but regardless of how fun it is, in my opinion, it's way too strong.

How ridiculously high for pvp burst, especially with sealthyand master asassins damage buff from stealth as imbue weapon goes first.
See that 10k non crit while the LA is 11k crit.
Combine it wih I.E surprise attack or incap.

Berenhir

Joy_Division wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Joy_Division

"Xv1 died a long long time ago, but this skill isn;t making that situation neither better or worse because it's just a skill that does comparable damage to other spammable skills. If that is not the case, what am I missing? I'm not saying you're wrong, I am saying what do you see that I don't?"

My concern is the added burst it gives you in combination with spammables. If you cast it like a buff (which by all means it is) and then use it on the next GCD with another spammable aka surprise attack, then in that GCD you'll be doing 2 abilities worth of damage in 1 GCD. Yes it does require setup, yes it does require a "wasted" GCD, and yes there are signs that the enemy is doing such an action. But in Xv1 that setup is easy, that "wasted" GCD is insignificant, and the signs of you setting up are harder to see. I'd personally rather get hit in two consecutive GCDs for 5k damage each than one GCD for 10k damage in a Xv1 scenario.

In my opinion the damage potential is similar to that of a curse + frag combo but instead of every 4 GCDs can be performed every 2 GCD, and instead of relying on a frag to proc it's just your normal spammable.

Im an Xbox player who doesn't have access to PTS so all I have to go on are theory crafted scenarios. Just seems problematic to me.

I still don't understand how your concern: Imbue (buff) + light attack + spammable [2 GCDs] is worse than what can already be done on Live: light attack + spammable + light attack + spammable [2 GCDs].

Most of the people who are on the PTS have don't have an issue with it. Combining it with sorc overload I do agree is problematic, but that's a specific issue that ZoS can prevent from happening.

There are certain classes (not templars ) for which high incoming burst is a very problematic issue to handle. This is specifically true for sorcs. Their defense is tied to proactively casting defensive abilities (shields) with a limited effectiveness.

The problem here is that - in addition to the overall pressure that was added with summerset magicka light attack damage increase - imbue weapons allows to double the damage a shield takes within one second.
While recasting (stacking) shields under moderate pressure is possible, the increased damage and burst made it much more probable for sorcs in outnumbered situations (read: in Cyrodiil) to get bursted through their shields, take damage to their health and thus be subject to increased damage from execute abilities and/or execute procs including poison injection and endless fury.

This issue will only be even more problematic in high latency scenarios. The world won't end but while many sorcs are very happy and looking forward to the rune cage and imbue changes, most of them did not notice their defense has taken a big hit.

The OP did somehow notice and ranted on the forums without giving much structure to their argument.

But you are explaining it disingenuously. You are only taking "double the damage" because the second before you took half the damage. You are still taking the same amount of damage.

What do you want ZoS to do? Nerf the skill so it sucks and only does 50% of the damage it does now? Nobody will ever use it because it still costs about the same resources as a spammable and still costs a GCD. Doing so will completely make the skill useless and every PVEers who comes onto these forums and says that their game is ruined by PvP whining will be 1000000% correct in this instance.

I don't want ZoS to do anything, I am very fine with additional burst for my nightblade. But I can see where the OP is coming from. For classes that usually do sustained pressure with their spammable (strife/force pulse) it is super cool to do the same damage in a more bursty 2 second interval. That might not be very healthy for some defensive mechanisms currently used in the game (like shielding) but who cares (except magsorcs).

scionix90

Not OP.