Maintenance for the week of April 22:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 22
• PC/Mac: NA and EU for maintenance – April 24, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) – 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®4: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – April 24, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) – 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox One: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – April 24, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) – 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
The Elsweyr Chapter and Update 22 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! You can read the full patch notes here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/468599

Last 6 dlc dungeons too difficult, not puggable

  • Nelson_Rebel
    Nelson_Rebel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gythral wrote: »
    Don't PUG...
    look for a guild that is doing that content, that's always been the way of things

    That's possible the worst comment on the forums...in well ever. Not everybody wants to be in a guild, nor chooses to be in a large guild. Some want smaller more personal guilds. The 4 man content should be easy enough to PuG.

    Now that being said...they are puggable. I have gotten through almost all of them with PuGs. The problem is nobody is patient enough for teach or help people through a dungeon a few times. First time I was in Scalercaller the other day. It was PUG and we got through without a problem. The day before I pugged both vRoM and vCoS. I did vWGT the other day without a wipe on any boss in a PUG. Once people have time to learn them they are fine.
    Pretty sure you didn't PUG in the usual sense of the term.

    You got very lucky and happened to get grouped with four experienced people that knew what they were doing and were geared, skilled, and coordinated accordingly. Even if they'd never set foot in the specific dungeons, I'm guessing all were very well versed in their class and role. This is very different from what most would consider an actual "PuG" group.

    It's like signing up for the carpool and you happen to get paired with three other Forumla One drivers. It can happen, but the odds of such are minute.
    ccfeeling wrote: »
    Don't Pug or u able to carry :D

    This mentality is whats wrong with the games polulation of PvE groups for the last 6-7 months.



    Don't pug, dont meet new players, dont grow or foster a healthy thriving community of players going to help each other.


    Stick to the old ways, in the same guild only running with the same people because its the only way to get through any content.


    Sorry but this is a toxic mentality. Vet Trials should be the ONLY reason to seriously consider the exact people you need to bring not dungeons that are MEANT to be used to meet new players and help them grow. Now almost no one does the group finder for fear of these dungeons popping up on their Random dailies
    There are requirements to clear content, and there is nothing wrong with expecting/wanting to run with people that are capable of doing so.

    This is not new. Before, it was pulling people from your friends list that you knew were capable. "Randoms" didn't get pulled in unless there was a spot that couldn't be filled. And if everyone did well, or better yet, exceptional, they generally got added to the friends list or invited to the guild.

    Until they come up with a gauntlet for class/role, showing some level of "certification," if you will, this will continue. In the beginning, it was linking achievements, etc. The only thing that's changed is the criteria of the judgement.

    The judgement has always been there.

    While some view this as toxic or exclusive, it is equally ineffective to insist on proceeding when a group cannot synergize in such a way as to clear a piece of content. Brick walls do not magically inspire or motivate. They never have. They never will.


    You have a mental block to ingnore every other point that was made other than the word "toxic"


    Im not having a conversation with someone who
    will pick one thing to take it out of context to twist into their own argument off topic argument from the main point that was made and subsequently ignored
  • Apache_Kid
    Apache_Kid
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    NEVER go to a vet DLC dungeon via activity finder.

    But it's nice that these dungeons are there so when my friends and I actually have a full group there's a challenge. We have gotten lots of playtime out of the six dungeons you are complaining about and there are still achievements to get. Most DLCs are not good in terms of playtime/replay value because the zones are always disappointingly small and even if you read every thing, the quests go so fast. The vet dungeon DLCs and their achievements provide many challenging hours of gameplay.

    Yeah you shouldn't do them via the finder. People will always queue for content they can't handle expecting a carry. It's human/gamer nature. However, this doesn't mean the content is too difficult. Some mechanics are a bit cheesy imo but for the most part they are fine and fun.
  • gepe87
    gepe87
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hist dungeons are doable with pugs. Just knowing the mechanics and have acceptable dps.
    Gepe, General MagSorc | Ghepe, First Sergeant MagDK | Gepe Direnni, Colonel Magplar | Gepe Aundae, Sergeant Magblade | Gepe Greenheart, Mystic Stamden Gepe Ravenwatch MagSorc
    Solo PvPer
  • Royaji
    Royaji
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Carbonised wrote: »
    Funny thing is, I specifically recall them nerfing vWGT and vICP several times through the years, since their "statistics shows that people would often skip these dungeons as daily pledges, and the numbers showed that very few people actually finished these dungeons".

    Fine and dandy, and then they friggin' go and add 6 more dungeons that make WGT and ICP look like a Sunday stroll in the park. And apparently we can look forward to 4 more of these every year, with no new dungeons added in in the usual veteran dungeon difficulty, or around the ICP/WGT ones.

    What the heck? It's like one hand doesn't even know what the other one is doing. Why nerf IC dungeons due to numbers, when I can bet you those same numbers show even less people regularly doing and finishing Hist dungeons, Reach dungeons and Bones dungeons. Let alone HM.

    Yeah, so we can expect them introducing some new hard dungeons and nerfing the older ones again. RoM and CoS are already becoming a joke. Same time next year Domihaus will be nerfed into oblivion and will only spawn one atro or something.

    Content becomes more accessible as time passes due to CP increase and nerfs to older content. And I don't see anything wrong with that.

    At one point vAA HM was considered hard. Now it's done with one tank.
  • efduncanub17_ESO
    efduncanub17_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    SickDuck wrote: »
    ESO should have standardised the difficulty of the dungeons long time ago. Not just dlc but each and every dungeon. We used to have 54 scales of dungeons before 1T now it’s all gone.

    Currently normal, veteran and “hard” mode dungeons vary widely in challenge levels. This makes group finder even more of a gambling than it should be. I’d like to see them balanced to a similar difficulty level accross 5 scales (for now at least, with option for future harder versions).

    Scale 1: easy normal dungeons like FG1 or VoM, aimed at all levels
    Scale 2: harder (old type “II”) normal dungeons like SC2 or EH2, aimed at lvl 45+
    Scale 3: easier veteran dungeons like CoA1 or FG1, aimed at low cp players
    Scale 4: harder veteran dungeons like CoA2 or WGT, aimed at cp 300+
    Scale 5: hard mode of dungeons with the whole instance beefed up to a harder mode than today (as necessary, varies based on dungeon), aimed at cp 600+. No more scrolls for hard mode, need to pick it before entering.

    Queueing for a specific scale would require to complete the dungeon on the previous scale before (ie. “Conqueror” achievement).

    This... + give some incentive to actually run those modes. For starters, change the bonus xp and rewards for running random normals vs veterans so not everyone runs normals only.

    I love this but the unwashed masses will decree elitism lol
  • Aisle9
    Aisle9
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Carbonised wrote: »
    Funny thing is, I specifically recall them nerfing vWGT and vICP several times through the years, since their "statistics shows that people would often skip these dungeons as daily pledges, and the numbers showed that very few people actually finished these dungeons".

    Fine and dandy, and then they friggin' go and add 6 more dungeons that make WGT and ICP look like a Sunday stroll in the park. And apparently we can look forward to 4 more of these every year, with no new dungeons added in in the usual veteran dungeon difficulty, or around the ICP/WGT ones.

    What the heck? It's like one hand doesn't even know what the other one is doing. Why nerf IC dungeons due to numbers, when I can bet you those same numbers show even less people regularly doing and finishing Hist dungeons, Reach dungeons and Bones dungeons. Let alone HM.

    Funny how this does not translate into "Mh, let me get better at playing my class/my rotation", but instead becomes "ZoS please release easier content".

    Never understood that.

    Got invited to nWGT once, folks from a guild I'm in couldn't get past Planar Inhibitor and one of the DDs just left.

    Big boy rotation and burned it, it was like they saw the Blessed Virgin Mary, couldn't even comprehend how you could do that.

    How do you figure they'd be able to complete RoM or CoS ? not to mention the newer ones.

    What's the solution to that ? Release dungeons on par with Fungal Grotto I ?

    If you want to play casually, there's already a difficulty to do that, it's normal. If you want the monster helmet, finding a group to get one is not that difficult, and you only need to do it once.

    Meanwhile, some of us actually enjoy a challenge and we're already getting to CP750, which is making the creation of harder/challenging content more and more difficult without relying on a bunch of one-shot mechanics or resource drains.

    But, hey, rejoice. Spamming light attacks is about to become a viable rotation, so... there's that.

    [..]Before, it was pulling people from your friends list that you knew were capable. "Randoms" didn't get pulled in unless there was a spot that couldn't be filled. And if everyone did well, or better yet, exceptional, they generally got added to the friends list or invited to the guild.

    You can't tell me that you don't have "go-to" people, people that everyone breathes a sigh of relief when they get added to the group. You equally can't tell me that there haven't been people that make the group cringe, due to history. it doesn't mean that can never change, but typically, it doesn't.

    Until they come up with a gauntlet for class/role, showing some level of "certification," if you will, this will continue. In the beginning, it was linking achievements, etc. The only thing that's changed is the criteria of the judgement.

    The judgement has always been there.

    While some view this as toxic or exclusive, it is equally ineffective to insist on proceeding when a group cannot synergize in such a way as to clear a piece of content. Brick walls do not magically inspire or motivate. They never have. They never will.

    100% agree.

    And the reason they won't is because they want people to be able to access the content. Nobody cares if people can't complete it (well, the people trying to complete do, I guess), the important bit is that they can access it.

    I personally don't care, as I'm 3 different guilds that provide me with people capable of doing the content, but I guess it would actually be beneficial to people relying on the GF.

    Still, it probably won't happen, they'll just raise the cap to CP 400 or something.

    Edited by Aisle9 on April 23, 2018 12:54PM
    Artemis Absinthe - DC magicka nightblade (PC - EU)
    Gruzosh Barrelsmasher - DC stamina sorcerer (PC - EU)
    Kew'bacca - AD stamina nightblade (PC - EU)
    Jebediah Orbrynn - DC magicka templar (PC - EU)
    Hold-Many-Bags - Mule DK, Promoted to main tank, occasionally stamDD
    Olaf Proudstache - Mule - No longer with us Now a Stamwarden healer
    Aglieglie Brazorf - AD magicka sorcerer (PC - EU)
    Rodolfo Lavandino - DC stamina, greatsword wielding, Jesus beam spamming, Redguard hybrid templar just a stamplar again (PC - EU)

    Scions of Dawn recruitment ad - PC EU multifaction PvE endgame raiding guild

    LUI user - I can see you when you fap loot.

    #SpellswordArmy
    #MakeSpellswordsGreatAgain

    In the Game of PuGs you win or you ragequit

    "Dip dip potato chip, dip dip potato chip"
  • Aisle9
    Aisle9
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ascan7 wrote: »
    You really were able to PUG the Planar Inhibitor and Molag Kena? You are lucky

    No, one of them whispered me and invited manually
    Artemis Absinthe - DC magicka nightblade (PC - EU)
    Gruzosh Barrelsmasher - DC stamina sorcerer (PC - EU)
    Kew'bacca - AD stamina nightblade (PC - EU)
    Jebediah Orbrynn - DC magicka templar (PC - EU)
    Hold-Many-Bags - Mule DK, Promoted to main tank, occasionally stamDD
    Olaf Proudstache - Mule - No longer with us Now a Stamwarden healer
    Aglieglie Brazorf - AD magicka sorcerer (PC - EU)
    Rodolfo Lavandino - DC stamina, greatsword wielding, Jesus beam spamming, Redguard hybrid templar just a stamplar again (PC - EU)

    Scions of Dawn recruitment ad - PC EU multifaction PvE endgame raiding guild

    LUI user - I can see you when you fap loot.

    #SpellswordArmy
    #MakeSpellswordsGreatAgain

    In the Game of PuGs you win or you ragequit

    "Dip dip potato chip, dip dip potato chip"
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    You have a mental block to ingnore every other point that was made other than the word "toxic"

    Im not having a conversation with someone who
    will pick one thing to take it out of context to twist into their own argument off topic argument from the main point that was made and subsequently ignored
    Here's your original post (to which I replied)
    ccfeeling wrote: »
    Don't Pug or u able to carry :D

    This mentality is whats wrong with the games polulation of PvE groups for the last 6-7 months.

    Don't pug, dont meet new players, dont grow or foster a healthy thriving community of players going to help each other.

    Stick to the old ways, in the same guild only running with the same people because its the only way to get through any content.

    Sorry but this is a toxic mentality. Vet Trials should be the ONLY reason to seriously consider the exact people you need to bring not dungeons that are MEANT to be used to meet new players and help them grow. Now almost no one does the group finder for fear of these dungeons popping up on their Random dailies
    The reality is certain content, beyond just Vet Trials, do require a certain level of experience, build, and player ability.

    Your extreme of "Don't pug, dont meet new players, dont grow or foster a healthy thriving community of players going to help each other." is bull and doesn't apply to a good portion of the game.

    There is still plenty you can do with randoms, newer players. There's plenty of ways you can teach, advise, and foster.

    All that being said, there is also some content, and modes of some content, that are not going to be reasonably clearable until after the group members have achieved that level.

    Experience will dictate if a group is capable or not for a given piece of content, on a given day. Trying to insinuate that it requires less than that or that it is positive in any way to bring newer, less experienced, less capable people into content there is zero chance of clearing does not foster anything positive.

    It helps no one.

    Does it mean those people can never get there? Does it mean those people should be shunned? Does it mean there is not tons of other stuff you can engage in with them?

    Absolutely not.

    Converse or don't. I covered everything you said.

    There is a huge distance between helping someone go from norms, to vet base game, to vet HM's, to DLC's, to DLC HM's.

    EDIT: To put it another way, the DLC dungeons are not "dungeons that are MEANT to be used to meet new players and help them grow." They are the dungeons that get pursued after the others are manageable.


    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on April 23, 2018 1:02PM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Aisle9 wrote: »
    100% agree.

    And the reason they won't is because they want people to be able to access the content. Nobody cares if people can't complete it (well, the people trying to complete do, I guess), the important bit is that they can access it.

    I personally don't care, as I'm 3 different guilds that provide me with people capable of doing the content, but I guess it would actually be beneficial to people relying on the GF.

    Still, it probably won't happen, they'll just raise the cap to CP 400 or something.
    Yeah, "Norm" is the "Here you go, you paid for the content." mode. I understand they want sales. I understand if you buy something, you'd like half a chance at seeing the last boss.

    While they are clearly dialing up certain aspects to make things more challenging, there is either too small a percentage of playerbase, or they are simply too marking frightened at releasing a "Hard Core" only DLC that I expect the trend will continue.

    If the disclaimer was there upfront, I would see nothing wrong with it. People would still complain there was nothing in it for them, or they disregarded and got exactly what it proposes, or the rewards were too OP...

    So they put it out with at least one mode for all, and this is where we are.

    @Aisle9 What I anticipate will happen is character scaling will go from CP160 to CP300/400 or so. This will make the current facerolls even faceroll-ier, and as a result, they'll dial up the hard modes even further still.

    It's a never ending cycle. Until they implement more than 3 modes, or a real means of progression, it's only the numbers that will change.

    People expect to be able to go immediately to vet Scalecaller HM the moment they hit 50, and it doesn't (nor should it) work that way.

    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on April 23, 2018 1:18PM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Pink_Violinz
    Pink_Violinz
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not sure the last time I had trouble in a DLC dungeon. I even got my no death in Cradle from a pug. It seems like you just had more of a string of bad players than anything actually representative of the player base.

    Are you talking to the players? Explaining mechanics? Helping lowbies who may not have the greatest builds? Your solution would involve a lot of man power and changes that can be avoided with just learning mechanics. I've had the absolute worst groups still get through it because I knew the fight, and could teach them how to go about it. With the new CP requirement next patch this will become even less of an issue.
    I can't outheal stupid
    PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates
  • Tabbycat
    Tabbycat
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Aisle9 wrote: »

    snip

    @Aisle9 What I anticipate will happen is character scaling will go from CP160 to CP300/400 or so. This will make the current facerolls even faceroll-ier, and as a result, they'll dial up the hard modes even further still.

    snip


    Urgh I hate how this forum doesn't do quotes right. Below is Tabby's reply to the above that got blended in with the quote even though the /quote is above this line. Grrr

    I don't think they will change character scaling to 300/400 CP, at least not with Summerset. They would have to increase CP armor/weapons etc and a lot of people would be really angry about that.
    Edited by Tabbycat on April 23, 2018 1:25PM
    Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
    0.016%
  • Xoelarasizerer
    Xoelarasizerer
    ✭✭✭
    Somehow I've random pugged through Vet Velidreth like 4 times.
    Somehow being the key word. The only ones I haven't done with randoms Vet are Falkreath and the Dragonbone Dungeons (aint even tried Fang Lair once on any difficulty when posting this.)

    Vet Falkreath was way too much of a headache for the few weeks I tried (compared to Velith-Diddy's Cradle only taking a few days until my first pug vet victory) and after the 3 hours it usually takes randoms to trudge through to Domihaus, the randoms usually leave the group after an hour of only reaching 5% HP left on Daddy Domi.

    Suffice to say, I don't need his gold bust or weak monster head set nearly enough to try it again. Zaan might be better than Grothdarr, but if these DLC dungeons' Vet modes are getting harder and harder with each release, I'm not even gonna bother wasting my time with Vet Pugs on the Dragonbone Dungs.

    TL;DR = I Concur. Earthgore and Velidreth are their only worthwhile heads, so I'd not bother with the others.
    Edited by Xoelarasizerer on April 23, 2018 1:29PM
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    @Tabbycat I don't think they'll change gear cap. I think they'll change the PvE "Battleleveling" from the current CP160 to CP300+

    That way when you log into your fresh out of the tutorial L1 character, they'll be scaled up further than they are now.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • MattT1988
    MattT1988
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    They’re not too difficult just because they’re “unpuggable”. The day we start balancing content so the average pug group could complete it will be a sad day, they would be too easy and boring for the prepared groups that play alongside each other long term. I love the hard DLC dungeons, it’s a top notch challenge and my favourite part of the game. Don’t tinker with it. Find yourself a regular team and work your way up.
    Edited by MattT1988 on April 23, 2018 1:33PM
  • Troneon
    Troneon
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Main two issues I have with DLC Dungeons. I have no problem with the challenge or difficulty.
    • Health Bar increases on mobs, lazy design to increase dungeon completion times, makes the dungeons extra long and sluggy/grindy just having to bash on mobs with overly high health over and over. This alone makes the dungeons not worth doing.
    • RNG Achievements based on pure luck and some that even you have no control over like your team mates getting hit by a certain object means = fail, or lag = fail. RNG Achievements in DLC Dungeons suck ass. You can do the dungeon 20 times perfectly and still FAIL the achievement anyway....IT SUCKS.


    Edited by Troneon on April 23, 2018 1:42PM
    PC EU AD
    Master Crafter - Anything you need!!
    High Elf Magicka Templar Healer/DPS/Tank
    Trials / Dungeons / PVP / Everything
  • Jarryzzt
    Jarryzzt
    ✭✭✭✭
    1. The OP declares something to be a fact - that the 6 DLC dungeons are not PUG-able - and premises most of their post on it.

    So if I said that I have PUGged vet WGT, Scalecaller, Cradle and Prison (oddly, I can never roll Mazzatun or Fang) some double-digit times over the past six months with at least a 50% success rate (which is what I'd expect from PUGs in general across different systems, by the way)...

    ...at the very least that means that PUG RNG is different for different people. To wit, I have seen PUGs fail in vet Cells 2 and Grotto 2, which are not that complicated IMO. I've seen PUGs fail normal Scalecaller on the first boss. But I've also seen PUGs tear through vet WGT in record time with no deaths.

    My point is that the statement "dungeons X are not PUG-able" is flat-out wrong and is really the standard mindless Internet hyperbole one tends to see on these (and other) forums. Had the OP instead opted for "dungeons X are significantly more difficult in a PUG" - that I would agree with, but it would have forced a rewrite of much of the original post.

    2. Since ESO continues to add non-easy-button dungeons (to wit, Scalecaller and Fang the last time around), one might hypothesize that, thus far, they feel this is the level of difficulty appropriate for the community. Including PUGs. And, to be sure, they, not we, have server-side stats on dungeon success rates (including for PUGs).

    Perhaps they change their minds with Summerset. Or perhaps not. But at the end it is their decision based on what they see and think, not a forum complaint. And, to belabor the point, thus far they certainly appear to think all is well.

    3. Hey, GUILDS EXIST. Thought I'd mention that...

    No, really. Because if you balance a dungeon down so that PUGs have a near-100% success rate - on vet, at that - then the upper quartile or even half of guilds will just tear that content up without so much as a by your leave. And this goes back to my comment up above that I would expect a 50%-type PUG success rate in this sort of content (obviously different MMOs give different results) since that implies guilds are in the, I don't know, 70%-80% range, on average. Of course, ZOS would know the precise stats for this game and this set of dungeons.


    TLDR. How many times have we seen the same complaints about PUGs on these boards in just the past year? Hundreds? Thousands? Move along, nothing to see here...I mean, I suppose there is some therapeutic value, but aside from that.
  • Rodgerwilco1
    Rodgerwilco1
    Soul Shriven
    In reading all the different comments here, I am struck by one thing that bugs me about dungeon crawls, and some have commented on it; the lack of teaching the mechanics of the instance. I am a bit wary of joining PUGs for a given instance because I don't run them and don't know what to expect in them. The good groups I have been in have asked if everyone knows the instance and if not will take the time to tell you about it as well as give some instruction for the different boss fights. I have been booted out of groups because the leader didn't like the way I was playing, yet never gave instruction on how the instance should be run, just started the run like we all should know what to do.

    I think the general rule for a given instance PUG should be to ask if everyone knows what to do. If you don't get asked that bale right from the start.

    I might add that I'm smart enough not to think I can run a high lvl instance with a low lvl toon. And as for helping, I have run into a lot of players willing to just group up with me when I run into problems in the public dungeons.


    In a different light; The open world bosses are a blast BTW; just jump in... :-)
    Edited by Rodgerwilco1 on April 23, 2018 1:52PM
  • Voxicity
    Voxicity
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I PUG them all the time with 0 problems

    If you aren't good enough to carry noobs, don't use group finder
    Vox-ir - AR 43 - Flawless Conqueror - vAS+2 - vHoF - vMoL - Worm Wizard - Blackmarrow Necromancer - Amberplasm - Spiderkith - Master Angler

    PC EU AD

    1000+cp
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    In reading all the different comments here, I am struck by one thing that bugs me about dungeon crawls, and some have commented on it; the lack of teaching the mechanics of the instance. I am a bit wary of joining PUGs for a given instance because I don't run them and don't know what to expect in them. The good groups I have been in have asked if everyone knows the instance and if not will take the time to tell you about it as well as give some instruction for the different boss fights. I have been booted out of groups because the leader didn't like the way I was playing, yet never gave instruction on how the instance should be run, just started the run like we all should know what to do.

    I think the general rule for a given instance PUG should be to ask if everyone knows what to do. If you don't get asked that bale right from the start.

    I might add that I'm smart enough not to think I can run a high lvl instance with a low lvl toon. And as for helping, I have run into a lot of players willing to just group up with me when I run into problems in the public dungeons.


    In a different light; The open world bosses are a blast BTW; just jump in... :-)
    It is equally the responsibility of the player to indicated they've never been in there before, only up to this part, or would like a refresher/explanation of mechanics.

    It goes both ways.

    If the group is above CP XXX and the content is not freshly released, it is more common to assume that people know than to automatically assume they don't.



    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on April 23, 2018 1:54PM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Saint_Bud
    Saint_Bud
    ✭✭✭✭
    Search for a guild and run with the people from it. Problem fixed.
    PVP Saint-Bud magicka Templar: AR 46
    PVE Lord Victarion mDK : dro'm-Athra-Destroyer pre Morrowind retired for crafting
    PVE Ramsay-Bolton magicka NB: Voice of Reason Clockwork City Patch retired
    VAA hm/ VHRC hm/ VSO hm/ VMOL hm/ VHOF hm/ VAS hm clear

    Stop playing PVE because its boring, content not disigned for melee players and class balance and sustain is ***
  • Rodgerwilco1
    Rodgerwilco1
    Soul Shriven
    In reading all the different comments here, I am struck by one thing that bugs me about dungeon crawls, and some have commented on it; the lack of teaching the mechanics of the instance. I am a bit wary of joining PUGs for a given instance because I don't run them and don't know what to expect in them. The good groups I have been in have asked if everyone knows the instance and if not will take the time to tell you about it as well as give some instruction for the different boss fights. I have been booted out of groups because the leader didn't like the way I was playing, yet never gave instruction on how the instance should be run, just started the run like we all should know what to do.

    I think the general rule for a given instance PUG should be to ask if everyone knows what to do. If you don't get asked that bale right from the start.

    I might add that I'm smart enough not to think I can run a high lvl instance with a low lvl toon. And as for helping, I have run into a lot of players willing to just group up with me when I run into problems in the public dungeons.


    In a different light; The open world bosses are a blast BTW; just jump in... :-)
    It is equally the responsibility of the player to indicated they've never been in there before, only up to this part, or would like a refresher/explanation of mechanics.

    It goes both ways.

    If the group is above CP XXX and the content is not freshly released, it is more common to assume that people know than to automatically assume they don't.



    I agree, it does go both ways.
  • Tasmin
    Tasmin
    ✭✭✭
    Jarryzzt wrote: »
    1. The OP declares something to be a fact - that the 6 DLC dungeons are not PUG-able - and premises most of their post on it.

    My point is that the statement "dungeons X are not PUG-able" is flat-out wrong and is really the standard mindless Internet hyperbole one tends to see on these (and other) forums. Had the OP instead opted for "dungeons X are significantly more difficult in a PUG" - that I would agree with, but it would have forced a rewrite of much of the original post. "

    No I didn't. From the outset I declared that finding a pug capable or completing the later dlc dungeons was exceptionally rare in my experience. - very far from stating it as a fact.

    Disagree with me if you must, but please don't misrepresent what I said.


  • N2woR
    N2woR
    ✭✭✭
    To be honest some of the best experiences I’ve had in eso are through PUGs, also the worst experiences. Many guilds say they run dungeons and trials regularly but the reality is they don’t (or if they do it’s with the same groups), I’ll like to think I know the mechanics of most dungeons well and as the tank I know more than enough about tanking to do these In Vet form but I struggle.

    I ran BF on Vet earlier and we breezed through to the second last boss, in fact we only died via the trash mobs. The problem was my survivability standing on the lava hole (after the smash), it had nothing to do with the healer or my rotation or even the mechanics of the boss. The thing is, dispite the time it was taking, none of the other 3 players complained. Just tried to help (I am cp360 and all 3 were 720) and this in all my time in Eso is the first time a higher CP pug group gave me advice

    This is ESOs progression though, most mmos have you running dungeons to get said item sets to progress on to the next ‘tier’ of dungeons. Eso doesn’t, it leaves it in the hands of the player. Unfortunately the normal version are to easy and lure many players into a sense of laziness, yes the main mechanics are their but to Honest do they hurt enough for most players to think ‘dawg, I need to get that right next time’. Not at all and the larger minority on those that play Eso never visit this forum, watch YouTube or look up builds to set out to improve

    Yes the new dlc is hard, to me that’s my goal at the moment to get to a level I’m able to clear them but I think the problem doesn’t just lie in content. The dungeon finder will only suit the none Dlc (unless your lucky), I don’t see it changing anytime soon
    [PS4]
    Guilds
    Snowborn Wolf Pack Elite
    Snowborn Wolf Pack
    Toons
    Grim Myth - Nord DK Tank
    Just Grim - Redguard Stam Sorc

  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    There should be content for all levels and abilities.

    I think the problem lays more in the (lack of) rewards for some of the content. Unless you have groups that are after a very specific achievement, in most cases, there's little reason to run much of the content, regardless of the difficulty or lack thereof.

    Agreed, that the cost of the DLC's, especially the dungeon only DLC's should promote more repeat requests. I realize they're going to try to push this with jewelry mats and motif pages, but that's still often not enough to justify the time it takes.

    @Emma_Overload I'd help when I'm on (Chaos) but finding two more is still a challenge.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Royaji
    Royaji
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    All the usual arguments: git gud, l2p, find a guild blah blah blah. Even people in my guilds don't want to do DLC dungeons!

    The fact is that ZOS hasn't made any new MEDIUM difficulty content since the base game vet dungeons. I don't recommend buying the dungeon DLCs to anybody, and I won't buy any more of them, either.

    I'm glad that SOMEBODY enjoys the DLCs, but why should the rest of us subsidize them? When are they going to make fun, challenging content for the majority?

    Let's not make any illusions here. The majority finds overland content to be challenging.
  • Tasmin
    Tasmin
    ✭✭✭
    , but if these DLC dungeons' Vet modes are getting harder and harder with each release, I'm not even gonna bother wasting my time with Vet Pugs on the Dragonbone Dungs.
    .

    This, in a nutshell is my main worry and disenchantment with the difficulty of the last 6 dlc dungeons. I, like you, have all but given up dungeoning new dlc because the difficulty curve has left me asking myself "Am I enjoying this?" And I'm not. And I used to dungeon all the time via lfg on my tanks and healers! There has to be a middle way and I think there is potential for an explosion of interest in LFG dungeon running once or if the devs make that middle tier of difficulty so that the dungeons feel rather like the non dlc or earlier dlc dungeons. There was a beautiful age of dungeoning in ESO, a golden moment that seems to have passed.

    I'm not liking this new age.
  • CultOfMMO
    CultOfMMO
    ✭✭✭
    they're not designed to be puggable on vet hm, and really there are a lot of poor design elements to the hm version that gives even the most coordinated groups a hard time. But again, its vet hm, no one need to do this, you dont need to do this to get monster helm. Therefore the extreme challenge is warranted

    vet is easy if you have the faintest clue of how your role works. As in how it REALLY works not what you think it should work, feel like this point is where the vast majority of "casuals" fall short.

    normal is stupid easy so git gud if you're having trouble

    done case closed, next question
    vHoF HM 202k Tick-Tock Tormentor (Stamblade)
    vAS HM 111k Immortal Redeemer (Magplar)
    vCR HM 129k Gryphon Heart (Magblade/plar)
    Magblade vMA 601k
This discussion has been closed.