To people who enjoy speedrunning...

NordSwordnBoard

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

To be honest, if you queue up for a random dungeon, you have signed up to be at the mercy of the other players you get. If you don't want trouble I highly recommend you find or create your own guild that will run things the way you enjoy.

There are like minded individuals out there for every situation, you cant hate on the ones that don't go to the beat of your drum because you don't go to theirs either.

This

It's not that you "need to make your own group", as much as you have 3 options: accept the group, vote to kick offender(s) or leave. You may want to boot somebody for speedrunning, but does the group? Majority rules, for better or worse in the PUG.

I have all roles, and truthfully, my tank and healer are wasted in normals - many things die before I can stack them as tank, as healer, hardly anybody ends up in real danger. I'm not asking anybody to halt their damage/unslot heals so I can feel more useful, I move up to Vet where those two belong.

@Kalgert - What if one group member wanted to scour the dungeon; read all books on the spot, check every urn, plain sack etc and check all the dead ends not needed to complete the dungeon. Let's say for the sake of argument, it doubles the typical time you would normally need to beat any dungeon. What if most of the runs you did had people who wanted to double the completion time of the dungeon for some wheat and trash pots that seem meaningless to you? Would you accommodate them?

If I don't like the group, I leave. It's just easier on everybody. I recommend having all roles or at least 2 different toons to use to dodge the 15 min penalty. It usually doesn't take too long to see if its worth staying in the group.

MLGProPlayer

If you don't like speed runners, then make your own group. It's that simple.

Good luck finding 3 other players who want to run a dungeon slowly though.

Kalgert

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

@Kalgert - What if one group member wanted to scour the dungeon; read all books on the spot, check every urn, plain sack etc and check all the dead ends not needed to complete the dungeon. Let's say for the sake of argument, it doubles the typical time you would normally need to beat any dungeon. What if most of the runs you did had people who wanted to double the completion time of the dungeon for some wheat and trash pots that seem meaningless to you? Would you accommodate them?

You may be surprised.... YES

And I am not lying. I truly would not mind a player who's looking in every nook and cranny for anything that might be secret. Heck, he might find something I haven't found. And I can always sit back and read something while I am waiting for him to catch up. (Also the urns and sacks contain cooking materials, which let's be honest are pretty valuable if you're looking to train in that profession)

HOWEVER... I would start getting impatient if he'd go AFK for five minutes every time he made a few steps. Like he'd go to one box, then go afk for some reason. Five minutes later, he starts moving again, and again afk. If something important happens once then okay, I can wait for them to come back, but if it happens repeatedly, I lose patience.

Bottom line is: If they're active in their exploration, I have a buddhist's patience. If they're sitting around doing literary nothing and are AFK, then I want them out.

What do you say to that?

Azuramoonstar

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

If you don't like speed runners, then make your own group. It's that simple.

Good luck finding 3 other players who want to run a dungeon slowly though.

idm running dungeons slowly.

I try to do what the groups wants in every mmo i play, but i'm at my best if I'm not rushed.

You may be surprised that not everyone likes to speed run dungeons. "duty finder" is not the majority of the playerbase, neither is the forums.

A lot of ppl play others with in there guilds, or close friends.

Test of your point still stands.

Xoelarasizerer

I feel there's a large difference between going left down the waterfall to skip one mini-boss uninvolved in any objective, and just ignoring every single mob and going straight for the bosses.

I think I had one run like that latter during the anniversary event and just decided to roll with it because of getting an anniversary box quicker. Hopefully it won't be a thing I see again anytime soon again since the reason I run dungeons is to break apart tons of enemies with powerful allies.

I can understand wanting to pull as many nearby enemies together in a large vicinity into the pain train, but just ignoring everything you can to get the dungeon done asap is cringey. There's no consideration and no knowledge gained for any new-ish players running that dungeon for the first time... That said, I'd be totally okay with this if it was a random pug good enough to rush through past mobs and quickly pwn the bosses at Vet Falkreath or Vet Scalecaller, though.

Aurielle

Kalgert wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

It honestly sounds like you think level capped, competent DPSers do this just to make you look/feel bad. That is NOT the intent; if you feel bad, that's on you.

Oh, you misunderstand. I don't "Feel bad" because some "Competent DPS" players (Bwahahahaha, I can't believe you actually called 'em as such) are rushing ahead and eviscerating everything quickly.

I do however feel annoyed at seeing my time being wasted, because some people feel the need to go rush-rush at everything. Yes, I consider speedrunners as time-wasters.

That's ultimately what made me consider making this thread: Speedrunners are wasting time because they are trying ever so desperately to get through the dungeon really quickly, that they end up disrespecting my time.

And in the mantra of the speedrunners: My time is precious, and I don't like it being wasted.

Example of how this is the case: Speedrunners sitting at one spot because they are trying to figure out how to progress further, only to realise a minute or so later that they need to kill a prerequisite boss (Yes, that can happen).

Or how they end up going ahead while people are sitting behind fighting monsters, because let's be honest, you can't really un-aggro something just by running away. Therefore, time spent fighting something that really was out of the way.

So yes. Speedrunners are disrespectful time wasters.

Didn't answer my question. What do you gain by killing trash groups one at a time, rather than grouping them up and burning them down with AOEs?

Also, people who dispose of dungeon trash efficiently are...wasting your time? Huh? To repeat something I said very early in this thread: if you see someone running ahead past trash groups, you're supposed to stick with that person. You're not supposed to hang back and valiantly fight trash groups one at a time. Efficient players seldom "forget" to kill bosses, because they've run those dungeons literally 100s of times and know how to complete a dungeon in the least amount of time possible. Does it happen? Sure, but rarely.

And yeah, competent damage dealers have no problem disposing of large groups of trash in normal dungeons in an efficient manner. Being able to do large amounts of AOE damage over time and at least 20-25k+ single target DPS is a basic expectation of a competent damage dealer. If you think a damage dealer is INcompetent for being able to pull large groups of trash and AOE them down in normal dungeons, then you're in for a very rude awakening if you ever try to run veteran content as a damage dealer.

NordSwordnBoard

Kalgert wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

@Kalgert - What if one group member wanted to scour the dungeon; read all books on the spot, check every urn, plain sack etc and check all the dead ends not needed to complete the dungeon. Let's say for the sake of argument, it doubles the typical time you would normally need to beat any dungeon. What if most of the runs you did had people who wanted to double the completion time of the dungeon for some wheat and trash pots that seem meaningless to you? Would you accommodate them?

You may be surprised.... YES

And I am not lying. I truly would not mind a player who's looking in every nook and cranny for anything that might be secret. Heck, he might find something I haven't found. And I can always sit back and read something while I am waiting for him to catch up. (Also the urns and sacks contain cooking materials, which let's be honest are pretty valuable if you're looking to train in that profession)

HOWEVER... I would start getting impatient if he'd go AFK for five minutes every time he made a few steps. Like he'd go to one box, then go afk for some reason. Five minutes later, he starts moving again, and again afk. If something important happens once then okay, I can wait for them to come back, but if it happens repeatedly, I lose patience.

Bottom line is: If they're active in their exploration, I have a buddhist's patience. If they're sitting around doing literary nothing and are AFK, then I want them out.

What do you say to that?

I say you are going to struggle greatly in this game using a random group generator to find specific players. You wouldn't be here posting if enough random groups wanted non speed runs like you. It doesn't make you wrong, it makes you a vocal minority. I'm trying to suggest that you are better off finding like minded players than requiring strangers to conform to your standards - but that's already been suggested many times.

Another possible solution: do Vet content instead. Tanks and healers have much more significance, the challenge is greater, and you will encounter less speed run types unless doing an entry level Vet version. There are consequences for treating a vet dungeon like its normal version in most cases. A speed oriented DD will realize that in a vet dungeon, booting the utility roles and waiting to replace kind of defeats the purpose of speed/efficiency. No such waiting issues in normal because the speedy can probably solo it anyway. If you and the girlfriend use at least one utility role, you may end up being able to influence the vote in your favor. Again, majority rules, for better or worse in the PUG, try using it to your advantage.

Sting864

boombazookajd wrote: »

Well here's the other side of the coin:

Those 600+ players have run that dungeon about a billion times. I used to hate this too but I now understand why.

This is one of the most popular, yet most often inconsiderate excuses that I have read/heard here... Some people realize that the goal in an MMO is the journey not the destination...
If you wanna rush to the end, what's the point??
I'm considering starting Walking Pledges, where running in dungeons is not permitted... I think it would be fun....

Sting864

Aurielle wrote: »

[
Precisely. (and I do normals for the random XP bonus, though since I’ve hit 720, I’m less inclined to do so).

I don’t want people to “fawn” over me for being level-capped; I just want to get that freaking chance at a Worm Cult motif at more than a glacial pace:

I wonder why it was mentioned... Sick brag, brah....

Loves_guars

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

If you don't like speed runners, then make your own group. It's that simple.

Good luck finding 3 other players who want to run a dungeon slowly though.

I can solo vet dungeons too, I prefer to run a dungeon slowly with others though.

visionality

Aisle9 wrote: »

visionality wrote: »

As a 1200cp+ player who is still doing random (vet) dungeons just for the fun of it, one personal observation on speedrunners:

Every single speedrunner I've ever met who ran ahead of his group leaving them behind and ruining their dungeon run was batshit bad. Usually wiping at the first instance when the healer did not race behind to rescue his life and the tank did not pull the aggroe back from him. And usually ragequitting after the second wipe because "the group was too bad", which gives everybody a good laugh.

That's not to say that good players can't or won't speedrun. But they do it with regards to their group, making it an enjoyable run for everybody.

Man, 1.2k cp and you still can't find a group capable of running without a healer or a tank ? That's an achievement in itself, gz!

Read the post - bad players speedrun and wipe. Good ones have fun with everybody.

And actually I really wonder about all the people claiming that they pull several trash mobs together to burn them down faster ... How high is their aoe-dps? 10k? 15k? In any average skilled group, you dont manage to pull more than two mobs together because they die almost instananeously, especially in normal dungeons. So claiming to make "one big pull" with several mobs is an equivalent to admitting that you have *** dps.

Azuramoonstar

Sting864 wrote: »

boombazookajd wrote: »

Well here's the other side of the coin:

Those 600+ players have run that dungeon about a billion times. I used to hate this too but I now understand why.

This is one of the most popular, yet most often inconsiderate excuses that I have read/heard here... Some people realize that the goal in an MMO is the journey not the destination...
If you wanna rush to the end, what's the point??
I'm considering starting Walking Pledges, where running in dungeons is not permitted... I think it would be fun....

i speak from experience, you are fighting a loosing battle. It is best to think of others, instead of being rude/selfish under the guise of being "for the people" if a group wants to speed run it is their choice. If a group doesn't want to speed run, their is there choice.

You can only control you. It is a hard lesson to learn, but possible.

The people who rush have ran the dungeon x amount of time. It can get boring. I think what you just typed is more inconsiderate, as I've done the same in the past but grew up a little.

you can can only control you. Not wanting to go slow is not inconsiderate (if it is the majority) demanding others to cater to you is inconsiderate.

It is best to find like minded people to play with.

Sting864

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Give it time OP and you will become one of these speed runners you hate. It has nothing to do with our high CP, wanting to show off or have people admire us. It's simply we have ran these dungeons 1000+ times and dont want to be in it any longer than we must.

Let them know if you're on a quest, most will be kind enough to wait between bosses. Trash pulls don't matter.

Get used to it though. I'm not gonna slow down because someone else wants to take their time doing a 10 minute dungeon and turn it into a 30 minute dungeon.

I've played ESO since six months BEFORE public release, have done every pledge numerous times, and still do not rush through dungeons... I say I'm doing the quest each time even if I've already done it... However, people still want to rush thru...
If someone rushes ahead and skips some trash, doesn't the more deliberate quester have to solo that trash and clean up after that 'rushin'? How much time should I give it??
On a less altruistic note don't you want to get as much content out of every dungeon for your money?? Where's the fire???

Sting864

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

If you don't like speed runners, then make your own group. It's that simple.

Good luck finding 3 other players who want to run a dungeon slowly though.

If you like speed runners, then make your own group. It's that simple.

Speed running is the exception, not the rule; or should be...

Taranthula

Dragath wrote: »

Taranthula wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

Jolipinator wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Yup. It's case of competing interests. Some people want to go slower, and some people want to go faster. How do we resolve the conflict? Compromise, or majority wins?

Best way is for the speedrunners to look at their own words for a second.

"Go join a rp guild."
Why don't you join a dungeon guild? Or ask for people in zone chat who have 30 seconds to spare before the world ends.

"I can solo this dungeon."
Then play it on your own.

"I don't have time for this."
Stop using group finder with strangers who could be new/low level/questing/having fun.

you do realize this thread was created by someone that complained about speedrunners, not the other way around?
i said it to the op, and i say it to you:
the speedrunners are not complaining about you.
you are complaining about the speedrunners.
so if you don't like to be thrown in with them and it bothers you, but not them, then you should check for alternatives to make your own life easier.

Uhm..have you actually read all the posts in this thread? O.o

yes, i have.
have you?
who started the thread?
can you find anyone that says "you are not allowed to play slow."?
no, because nobody here is complaining about slow players.
the slow players are complaining about the fast players.
the fast players try to explain why they do it and that the slow players can form pre-mades if it bothers them so much.
it doesn't bother fast players at all, they are fine with the fact that they encounter slower players, so there is no need for them to form pre-mades.
the answer from the slow players is basically "i don't like what you do! Do it my way!".
its childish entitlement.

Oh but I have. Twice.

Read between the lines. I see several posts where speedrunners are complaining about:

People who wants to do the quest and read the dialogue.
People who wants to take it slow
People who wants to loot everything

Heck, I've even seen a post where someone claims that speedrunners times are more valuable than slowrunners. WHAT?!

And so on and so on.

Actually - I have not seen that "quote" from ANY of the slowplayer people - "I don't like what you do! Do it my way!"-ish...where exactly is that quote?

It does exactly bother fast players, which you clearly read in many of these posts. I can name a few by name, but that would be against the TOS wouldn't it?

Taranthula

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

If you don't like speed runners, then make your own group. It's that simple.

Good luck finding 3 other players who want to run a dungeon slowly though.

If you don't like slowrunners, then make your own group. It's that simple.

It shouldn't be hard to find 3 other players who want to run a dungeon fast though.

griffkhalifa

Kalgert wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Kalgert wrote: »

Gaggin wrote: »

Complaining about people playing the game well? I bet you never even thank people for the carry.

I have no words to express how stupid this sounds.

And I have no words to express how stupid it is to waste time pulling one trash group at a time in a normal dungeon when you have a damage dealer in the group who can do 30k+ DPS.

And I have no words to express how insulting it is to players who are relatively fresh to the game, to have a bunch of max level characters rush forward and then act passive-aggressive when they are asked to come back.

We can keep going like this.

Really? When I was new I was begging to be grouped with experienced players so I could actually complete the activity. I can't even imagine the amount of self-centeredness it takes for someone to make the assumption that experienced players are the ones that need to slow down rather than the inexperienced player learning and keeping up.

sylviermoone

There are still no spreadsheets in this thread.

griffkhalifa

If you want to read the dialogue/quest/RP/travel slowly through the dungeon then it is on you to find like-minded players; the vast majority of people at this stage of the game's life-cycle (we have been doing these dungeons for 3+ years) do not want to spend an hour in a normal dungeon that can be cleared in 10 minutes.

You are in the minority.

AlienatedGoat

Sting864 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

If you don't like speed runners, then make your own group. It's that simple.

Good luck finding 3 other players who want to run a dungeon slowly though.

If you like speed runners, then make your own group. It's that simple.

Speed running is the exception, not the rule; or should be...

How is rushing dungeons an exception?

Has the majority of dungeon runners never done the dungeons?

I'd think that most people have run them enough times to not want to dilly dally and check every *** rock, pot and trunk.

This is an asinine statement to make. Of course speed running is the rule.

AlienatedGoat

griffkhalifa wrote: »

If you want to read the dialogue/quest/RP/travel slowly through the dungeon then it is on you to find like-minded players; the vast majority of people at this stage of the game's life-cycle (we have been doing these dungeons for 3+ years) do not want to spend an hour in a normal dungeon that can be cleared in 10 minutes.

You are in the minority.

Hell, I don't even want to spend 10 minutes. I solo part 1 dungeons in 3-4 minutes.

I want quick, easy, painless random xp when I get tossed these softball part 1 dungeons. So does the vast majority of people who end up in my groups. I can count on one hand the number of times someone who wasn't doing the quest wanted to take it slow. Shocker: Nobody cared.

You want to sightsee, do it on your own time. Don't expect everyone to want to lollygag around a dungeon they've done hundreds of times.

Capt_Morgan

Gaggin wrote: »

Kalgert wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Give it time OP and you will become one of these speed runners you hate. It has nothing to do with our high CP, wanting to show off or have people admire us. It's simply we have ran these dungeons 1000+ times and dont want to be in it any longer than we must.

Let them know if you're on a quest, most will be kind enough to wait between bosses. Trash pulls don't matter.

Get used to it though. I'm not gonna slow down because someone else wants to take their time doing a 10 minute dungeon and turn it into a 30 minute dungeon.

I've done dungeons many times in multiple MMO's.

I still take my time running them.

What do you say to that?

Hey I get it, you're not a strong player, it's okay but when you randomly get grouped with competent players don't take it out on them.

Who are you to give advice? Just because YOU like being carried through everything doesn't mean every other low level scrub likes to. A lot of weak players like working towards there completions and improving their skills, not getting easy clears they don't deserve.

Azuramoonstar

Sting864 wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Give it time OP and you will become one of these speed runners you hate. It has nothing to do with our high CP, wanting to show off or have people admire us. It's simply we have ran these dungeons 1000+ times and dont want to be in it any longer than we must.

Let them know if you're on a quest, most will be kind enough to wait between bosses. Trash pulls don't matter.

Get used to it though. I'm not gonna slow down because someone else wants to take their time doing a 10 minute dungeon and turn it into a 30 minute dungeon.

I've played ESO since six months BEFORE public release, have done every pledge numerous times, and still do not rush through dungeons... I say I'm doing the quest each time even if I've already done it... However, people still want to rush thru...
If someone rushes ahead and skips some trash, doesn't the more deliberate quester have to solo that trash and clean up after that 'rushin'? How much time should I give it??
On a less altruistic note don't you want to get as much content out of every dungeon for your money?? Where's the fire???

that was a beta, it doesn't count. -_-;;

Mic1007

I think the argument of either side being more important is invalid for the Random Dungeon Finder. If you threw yourself into a PUG group with no restrictions, all you can really do is quickly ask whether anyone needs to do the quest and then cater to whichever playstyle is the majority in the group: fast or slow. It's not like ZOS gave us a way to decide what kind of players we'd like to group up with.

However, for any other content, both speedrunners and sightseers can group up outside of the Finder and do their thing. That way the speedrunners don't lose their valuable time (and being a full-time worker and a student, I know how valuable getting an hour of playtime is) and the sightseers get to explore and read dialogue, which is something I did appreciate doing my first few times in the Group Dungeons.

That's the beauty of an MMO: a little socialization can do wonders.

Dapper Dinosaur

Kalgert wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

@Kalgert - What if one group member wanted to scour the dungeon; read all books on the spot, check every urn, plain sack etc and check all the dead ends not needed to complete the dungeon. Let's say for the sake of argument, it doubles the typical time you would normally need to beat any dungeon. What if most of the runs you did had people who wanted to double the completion time of the dungeon for some wheat and trash pots that seem meaningless to you? Would you accommodate them?

You may be surprised.... YES

And I am not lying. I truly would not mind a player who's looking in every nook and cranny for anything that might be secret. Heck, he might find something I haven't found. And I can always sit back and read something while I am waiting for him to catch up. (Also the urns and sacks contain cooking materials, which let's be honest are pretty valuable if you're looking to train in that profession)

HOWEVER... I would start getting impatient if he'd go AFK for five minutes every time he made a few steps. Like he'd go to one box, then go afk for some reason. Five minutes later, he starts moving again, and again afk. If something important happens once then okay, I can wait for them to come back, but if it happens repeatedly, I lose patience.

Bottom line is: If they're active in their exploration, I have a buddhist's patience. If they're sitting around doing literary nothing and are AFK, then I want them out.

What do you say to that?

I say I wish I had infinite free time like you to literally throw it away like that and not be even so much as annoyed.

xDekar

The way I see it is as follows:
If you don't like speedrunning but you adjust to the speedrunner...at least the dungeon is over fast and you can queue again.
If you hate going slow but you adjust to the slow players...you're @*#(&* and you may not have time to queue again.

So really if you want to be considered a nice person who follows "for the benefit of the community" etiquette...speedrunners take priority if they happen chance to be in your group imo.

zaria

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

If you don't like speed runners, then make your own group. It's that simple.

Good luck finding 3 other players who want to run a dungeon slowly though.

idm running dungeons slowly.

I try to do what the groups wants in every mmo i play, but i'm at my best if I'm not rushed.

You may be surprised that not everyone likes to speed run dungeons. "duty finder" is not the majority of the playerbase, neither is the forums.

A lot of ppl play others with in there guilds, or close friends.

Test of your point still stands.

Lots of runs people look everywhere, I assume they have sack and chest locations preloaded.
Other probably hope for blueprints and stuff and yes they drop in group dungeons pretty often.
Still its not something you do unless some has to take an break or some do quest.
And you do quest in normal dungeons at least if low CP, else is indicate you have not done dungeon before.

You can always drop the quest, I had to do it three times in Scalecaller Peak as i always ended up on the plague guy with loads of health and I wanted the story, then an guild run who took our time, then dropped it again on sorcerer before getting an group from start.
Again you will do the dungeons a lot of times

Aurielle

Sting864 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

[
Precisely. (and I do normals for the random XP bonus, though since I’ve hit 720, I’m less inclined to do so).

I don’t want people to “fawn” over me for being level-capped; I just want to get that freaking chance at a Worm Cult motif at more than a glacial pace:

I wonder why it was mentioned... Sick brag, brah....

Wasn’t bragging, brah. Just giving one reason why high CP players who know what they’re doing even bother to do normals instead of vet dungeons, and clarified my own situation before someone inevitably went “but wait, aren’t you CP capped?” I ran normals during this event to grind XP and to grind boxes; once I hit cap, I only ran them to grind boxes. Now that the event is over, I’m heading back to vet dungeons.

zaria

xDekar wrote: »

The way I see it is as follows:
If you don't like speedrunning but you adjust to the speedrunner...at least the dungeon is over fast and you can queue again.
If you hate going slow but you adjust to the slow players...you're @*#(&* and you may not have time to queue again.

So really if you want to be considered a nice person who follows "for the benefit of the community" etiquette...speedrunners take priority if they happen chance to be in your group imo.

This, drop quest, you get an fast an easy run you will do it again. On the other hand guiding noobs trough harder dungeons can be rewarding to, it was also an nice way to learn healing.
Its something who mostly went away with increased level requirements for normal dungeons.
On the other hand it was an overall improvement.

yttoks

All this back and forth on right and wrong in normal dungeon pug's is pointless. PracticalLy speaking, OP, you should just ask them to slow down.

If they give you a hard time or ignore you, just drop group. Nothing you can say in game or here is gonna shame speedrunners into slowing down if they're the kind of players who won't slow down when you ask.

I'm sympathetic to your situation. To my mind, the purpose of random normal dungeons is give newbies a training ground and a nice xp bump, not to minimize the time required for endgame players to get a new trinket they probably don't care about anyway.

But none of that matters. Do yourself a favor: ask nicely, drop group if you need to, and don't waste a thought on it if you do.

But you should ask. I'm gonna burn a normal as fast as I can, unless someone asks for a slower pace.