To people who enjoy speedrunning...

MalakithAlamahdi

This must be one of the most childish threads i've read. If you que up with random people then you shouldn't expect things to always go you way. A "speedrun" can take longer than you wanted or a dungeon can go faster than you wanted. Making such a big deal out of it and having a Yes/No discussion about it is pointless.

If you want to have a dungeon go in exactly the way you wanted you group up with people you ask in zone, friends or guildies. If you use the group tool you know it'll be randoms so the way it go's will also be random.

I honestly don't see the issue here. I've played this game since Beta and i've never had an issue with people being faster than me or people going a bit slower than me. Having people pull mobs on you and then leaving doesn't happen often either, I can count that happening on one hand after playing for 4 years. Don't make the issue seem larger then it is.

krachall

If you're in a normal dungeon and have either a tank or a healer, you're not speed running.

Loves_guars

Yes this is the main reason why I mostly don't PUG. Which is sad because most of my friends are leaving the game and I prefer to log out before dealing with these players that don't have the least respect for others or love for a dungeon.

I've done dungeons tons of times too, I still can enjoy a dungeon, specially knowing that is a GROUP activity. That's the fun part of it. As they rush to a boss skipping everything and waiting for no one, I often wonder why the hell do they play a MMO?

blacksghost

The rushing apologists seem affronted that less experienced players have the audacity to play these dungeons as intended. /sarcasm how dare other players not be aware they have multiple alts and multiple rewards to grab /end sarcasm.

The suggestion of a speed option for dungeons seems sensible.

Heka Cain

When I catch up to the impatient ones...they are usually dead! Deep joy ensues!

Runefang

blacksghost wrote: »

The rushing apologists seem affronted that less experienced players have the audacity to play these dungeons as intended. /sarcasm how dare other players not be aware they have multiple alts and multiple rewards to grab /end sarcasm.

The suggestion of a speed option for dungeons seems sensible.

'As intended'? If I wasn't intended to go fast why doesn't the game stop me?

Truth is everybody has different objectives in a pug, deal with it. Some people want their daily xp, others want achievements, others want the story. You get what you get.

Runefang

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

I've done dungeons tons of times too, I still can enjoy a dungeon, specially knowing that is a GROUP activity. That's the fun part of it. As they rush to a boss skipping everything and waiting for no one, I often wonder why the hell do they play a MMO?

Because some people like HARD group activities, this sometimes means doing easy stuff in a pug as a stepping stone. We're all different.

MattT1988

Kalgert wrote: »

I think I will avoid making mention of any "Technical Jargon" that people are talking about, with their mob clustering and whatnot, but there is something I'd like to single out:

Well you just ignored the best and most legitimate reason why people do it. Why’d you even start this thread if your just going to ignore the people telling you why they do it?

Taranthula

If you speedrunners have played the game for so long, that you are so good at it....then why are you playing alone? Why do you need to be in a PUG group? Don't you have a guild you can run your speedruns with? Or friends? ´

You sit and complain about NEW people wanting to take their times on dungeons - you even have the audacity to tell them to go and form groups whom they can run slowruns with. Then why don't you go and form your own speedruns?

That seems strange, doesn't it?

Now - I am part of a few good guilds and I have a steady group where we solo/trio vHM's with ease. But when I go into a PUG "normal" I do not expect ANYTHING. I KNOW for a fact that I risk the chance of being put in a group with low dps and people who have never done it before. And you know what? That is OKAY. I chose to push that button to sign up for random PUG. I chose it. Noone forced me to do it.

As noone is forcing YOU speedrunners to do it either.

All in all: Stop complaining that you get put into a PUG group with NEW people who wants to do the dungeons, either for the dialogue, the quest, whatnot. And start doing the speedruns in premades. Problems solved.

Oh and have you forgot that you once were a NEW player as well? I bet you have.

Dapper Dinosaur

Zypheran wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

Kalgert wrote: »

You realize I can turn this around on to you and say "Next time, maybe try finding a group of people who want to blitz through as fast as possible through a dungeon just like you, that way you'll never be disappointed."

you can, but the issue here is, that you are the one complaining about the "speedrunners".
they are not complaining about you.
so if they have no issue with you being slow but you have an issue with them being fast, then you are the person who should consider doing it another way. that is, if it bothers you that much.

This is ridiculous logic. Firstly if you race through a dungeon it does not mean the people you left behind are slow. Not being fast does not equal being slow.. that is just bad logic! Secondly "if they have no issue with you being slow but you have an issue with them being fast, then you are the person who should consider doing it another way"?? No, again, just bad logic. You are implying parity between the two approaches to running a group dungeon and that not accepting somebody else's ignorance is a cause for you to "consider doing it another way"! If somebody is being rude it does not imply that everybody must respect their stance because all opinions are equal, that is just bad logic! And yes, ive read the arguments before that the person who doesn't race through the dungeon can be considered rude because they are delaying the speed runner, but again, this is just ridiculous. You cannot equate the person who races through a dungeon with ignorant abandon of the people they leave the behind with the person who cannot keep up with this speed runner. One of these people is making an active choice to be an *******!

@Zypheran Look bud, if you're going to throw every variant of the word ignorance around with complete reckless abandon (are you in love with this word?), you should at least know what ignorance means. You are IGNORANT of the meaning of the very word you say literally nonstop to try and sound more intelligent. ENOUGH.

On topic: If people really care so much about the lore of dungeons, you can probably find a complete rundown of it on youtube. If this is not good enough for you, too bad. Your lore-nerding is not (and should never be) considered more important than the time of everyone around you that has no interest in it. Stopping for even one of you people can cost someone 5-10 minutes of stand-there-doing-nothing time, and that VERY quickly adds up to HOURS of time wasted.

Hamrb

Taranthula wrote: »

If you speedrunners have played the game for so long, that you are so good at it....then why are you playing alone? Why do you need to be in a PUG group? Don't you have a guild you can run your speedruns with? Or friends? ´

You sit and complain about NEW people wanting to take their times on dungeons - you even have the audacity to tell them to go and form groups whom they can run slowruns with. Then why don't you go and form your own speedruns?

That seems strange, doesn't it?

Now - I am part of a few good guilds and I have a steady group where we solo/trio vHM's with ease. But when I go into a PUG "normal" I do not expect ANYTHING. I KNOW for a fact that I risk the chance of being put in a group with low dps and people who have never done it before. And you know what? That is OKAY. I chose to push that button to sign up for random PUG. I chose it. Noone forced me to do it.

As noone is forcing YOU speedrunners to do it either.

All in all: Stop complaining that you get put into a PUG group with NEW people who wants to do the dungeons, either for the dialogue, the quest, whatnot. And start doing the speedruns in premades. Problems solved.

Oh and have you forgot that you once were a NEW player as well? I bet you have.

forgive for reading only the first part. we would be In a pug group because we get extra exp for joining a random dungeon through the finder(over 100k to be exact)

like many have said. if you point out that you need the quest, or all the bosses, I don't see why someone would leave you in the dust. now if they still just speed through, and disband group before you can even claim the quest reward, well they are jerks. and I'm sorry. but welcome to online gaming. you'll encounter many selfish people, best to remember that not everyone is like this.

you can always join a guild that is looking to play the way you want, or make friends, and ask them to help you out.

I'm sure the event made people a little spastic, so here Is to hoping it settles down for everyone now.

Taranthula

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Kalgert wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Give it time OP and you will become one of these speed runners you hate. It has nothing to do with our high CP, wanting to show off or have people admire us. It's simply we have ran these dungeons 1000+ times and dont want to be in it any longer than we must.

Let them know if you're on a quest, most will be kind enough to wait between bosses. Trash pulls don't matter.

Get used to it though. I'm not gonna slow down because someone else wants to take their time doing a 10 minute dungeon and turn it into a 30 minute dungeon.

I've done dungeons many times in multiple MMO's.

I still take my time running them.

What do you say to that?

That's you. Some people only get an hour or two to play a day, if that. Why spend 1/4th of your time in a dungeon if you don't want or have to?

You want to take it slow then do so, but don't complain if I want to do the dungeon quicker and am able to do so on my own.

Joining a pug you run with what's been given to you and have no right to complain. If you want to enjoy the dungeon and quest, look for a like minded group instead of joining through match making.

Let me ask you this:

Why don't you join a like minded group yourself then? Because you don't have time? I can tell you that there are MANY people on, every day, all day, who would love to run these. To follow your own advice: Find a guild and do the runs. Easy peasy.

Vaoh

Players naturally want to complete dungeons as fast as possible.... even moreso when they’ve completed a dungeon tons of times. They’re only there for rewards. Why would they want to take 1-2hrs just because you haven’t completed it yet?

It’s selfish to tell people to play how you want them to play. Most players tend to actually be happy when their team is basically carrying them through with little effort. Easy and quick rewards when going through daily Undaunted dungeons.

You say go create your own groups? Why don’t you create your own group and run the dungeon at your own pace? People in Group Finder can run dungeons the normal way, you can run them slowly with friends - everyone wins. If you want to do the quest that’s fine, but it’s entirely different to tell people the pace at which you think they are allowed to run a simple dungeon.

Taranthula

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Jolipinator wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Yup. It's case of competing interests. Some people want to go slower, and some people want to go faster. How do we resolve the conflict? Compromise, or majority wins?

Best way is for the speedrunners to look at their own words for a second.

"Go join a rp guild."
Why don't you join a dungeon guild? Or ask for people in zone chat who have 30 seconds to spare before the world ends.

"I can solo this dungeon."
Then play it on your own.

"I don't have time for this."
Stop using group finder with strangers who could be new/low level/questing/having fun.

stop expecting strangers you got paired with in the dungeon queue to cater their playstyle to your whims.

This - funny enough - goes both ways.

Taranthula

Jhalin wrote: »

A “speedrunner’s” time is more valuable than your immersion or a dungeon’s quest that you can run solo at literally any time.

Mind=blown. Has mankind really sunk to these levels? What makes a speedrunners time more valuable than others? ....

blacksghost

Runefang wrote: »

blacksghost wrote: »

The rushing apologists seem affronted that less experienced players have the audacity to play these dungeons as intended. /sarcasm how dare other players not be aware they have multiple alts and multiple rewards to grab /end sarcasm.

The suggestion of a speed option for dungeons seems sensible.

'As intended'? If I wasn't intended to go fast why doesn't the game stop me?

Truth is everybody has different objectives in a pug, deal with it. Some people want their daily xp, others want achievements, others want the story. You get what you get.

Your logic baffles me, the devs wrote dungeons with a story and several bosses, ie with more content than the final boss much as a book has chapters, speed runners are reading the epilogue, no one says it can’t be done, just that castigating those who chose to not do it your way have every right to do so.

To get the achievements you need to do it all.

Taranthula

Dragath wrote: »

Jolipinator wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Yup. It's case of competing interests. Some people want to go slower, and some people want to go faster. How do we resolve the conflict? Compromise, or majority wins?

Best way is for the speedrunners to look at their own words for a second.

"Go join a rp guild."
Why don't you join a dungeon guild? Or ask for people in zone chat who have 30 seconds to spare before the world ends.

"I can solo this dungeon."
Then play it on your own.

"I don't have time for this."
Stop using group finder with strangers who could be new/low level/questing/having fun.

you do realize this thread was created by someone that complained about speedrunners, not the other way around?
i said it to the op, and i say it to you:
the speedrunners are not complaining about you.
you are complaining about the speedrunners.
so if you don't like to be thrown in with them and it bothers you, but not them, then you should check for alternatives to make your own life easier.

Uhm..have you actually read all the posts in this thread? O.o

aetherial_heavenn

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Grouping of mobs is a common tactic. It makes the dungeon go quicker. Keep in mind that many players have ran all these dungeons 1001 times, yet whether it's for gear, A pledge, or undaunted xp on an alt, the game keeps making us re-run that content.

I like speedy people in my group, it saves me time, the one resource I am limited on. I would think others would appreciate being Speed-ran through dungeons.

See, the activity finder is a grab bag, if you get a group that isn't behaving as you please, you're really not allowed to complain about it. I get so mad when I get slow no-dps people in the finder, but I keep that ish internal because I know I deserve whatever I get in that group finder. Next time, maybe try finding a group of people who want to go slow just like you, that way you'll never be disappointed.

^^this

OP: A tip. Advertise in zone near the pledge giver for quest runs if you don't have a guild that runs normals with new players to practice tanking etc.

Otherwise with the dungeon finder, you get what you get. Often you will have some achievements done and some understanding of the best places to cluster mobs after a few of those high cp speed runs. But not much actual tanking practice.

Numerikuu

Jolipinator wrote: »

If you can complete dungeons on your own, then play on your own.

If you are in a rush because of real world events, then exit the game.

If you can't play a video game without trying to force others to play your way, then seek help.

Amen. All the speedrunners in this thread saying OP and the like need to find a guild/seek a group on chat for it. You know that works both ways, riiiiiiiight?~

I wish Zenimax would add a Story Mode to dungeons already... I still have no idea what 90% of the stories are for most dungeons because of rushers lol.

I don't mind rushers (and do rush myself at times), but there's rushing, and then there's the I-in-team rushers who think the entire party must cater to their huge ego and fragile arse as they run through mobs to a boss, die on the way or at said boss because they left the entire team behind, then throw insults as to why the rest of the team didn't follow suit. If you're gonna be like that? Then die. Get the hell out of here with that nonsense.

Feanor

Or maybe just tell the group politely you haven’t done the quest yet and would like to do it. Most times that will get you the result you wanted.

FrancisCrawford

pzschrek wrote: »

It's fascinating to see this side of the game. Even as a lowbie, I was ecstatic to get a carry. I assumed I was doing them a big favor.

I got kicked from my first group yesterday actually. A bunch of level 30s who Were clearly brand new and not leveling Alts kept pestering me about running ahead. I ignored them and they kicked me. I didn't get why they were mad, they were fiddling around with god knows what because I had killed all mobs and I ain't waiting for that. Queued again and I'm sure I got it done while they were wasting someone else's time.

Also I don't really worry about getting another queue. It's a normal dungeon. Of course you queue as everything.

Is this a spoof/satire post, or is it for real?

Ilithyania

Aisle9

RP in normal dunjons ?

Merlin13KAGL

DoctorESO wrote: »

I think we need a speedrun option in the group finder so people can group with people of like-minded goals.

There is. It's normal mode.

I've yet to be in a group where someone mentioned they were doing the quest and were not allowed to listen to dialogue.

Not. Once.

Beyond that, most are doing quick runs of normals for the daily XP bonus.

Why normal? Because it's faster than vet, and even if you get the good RNG fortune of landing ICP, Scalecaller, Falkreath, it's still relatively fast and doable. There's no gear difference (it gets vendored anyway), no gold difference (unless you count more expensive repair bill), and no reward difference to speak of.

When the make vet RGF daily worth the rewards, that may change. As it stands, most don't need another Bow of Willpower, and getting two transmute stones vs getting one transmute stone does not justify they time/training difference that vet inevitably requires. And 4 more soul gems are generally not consequential, either.

People queue RGF for a quick, hopefully painless RGF. Period.

They're not doing the quest (in most cases, though they're still willing to let someone else do so) and they're not farming gear. They'd be running specific dungeons if such were the case.

Until they change GF to group similarly leveled people,this is not going to change. When they do make that change, expect a longer wait, and one hell of a longer run.

(There was a group the other day where the tank got accused of 'double pulling' because he brought a trash mob alit to stack with Chokethorn in vet Elden. Group DPS was 11k for that fight, no one burning the healing adds, and 3k of that came from the tank. Is this the scenario you really want? Because, it's what you'd have to look forward to.)

FTR, this is not limited to lower level groups. The first several times I went into Fang Lair, I specifically didn't pick up the quest, as I wanted to be able to listen to the dialogue options on the way through. I knew ahead of time that that part was separate from learning the mechanics of the dungeon (rarely do they provide dialogue hints) and would be something I would do later, with a dedicated group, notifying as such ahead of time.

Getting to the point is the standard now, more than the exception. It may suck, but it's the nature of the beast. It's never going to change as long as CP700's are getting paired up with CP300's, getting paired up with L40's.

Zone scaling, dungeon scaling (the original variety, where certain dungeons had certain difficulty levels) took care of all this by default. People complained that they couldn't go anywhere and do anything, and now this is the result.

visionality

As a 1200cp+ player who is still doing random (vet) dungeons just for the fun of it, one personal observation on speedrunners:

Every single speedrunner I've ever met who ran ahead of his group leaving them behind and ruining their dungeon run was batshit bad. Usually wiping at the first instance when the healer did not race behind to rescue his life and the tank did not pull the aggroe back from him. And usually ragequitting after the second wipe because "the group was too bad", which gives everybody a good laugh.

That's not to say that good players can't or won't speedrun. But they do it with regards to their group, making it an enjoyable run for everybody.

Blacksmoke

I like to go fast as well but not skipping things I hate it when people just go afk 3 times a dungeon or are just generally slow to engage I have done all these dungeons at least 15 times so I have seen it all already so I dont want to waste my time in a dungeon get in and grt it done but I hate people who skip parts of dungeons.. city of ash 2 comes to mind with the swimming in lava stuff but thats why I like being a healer if I see people do stuff like that I use /sitchair and I will wait untill they either kick me or get back to me and as a healer I rarely get kicked and often I have a friend with me so its impossible to kick me

Ozstryker

How contentious hass this thread become?... when I tank I move through steady, if deeps are awesome I pull more, if it's slow I pull accordingly.. when I dps I wait for the tank to gather, when I heal I go with the flow... it's about respecting the other three people!..

If I were to add to the contention though..... personally I don't need the xp, I have 200 keys and have the gear I need, so I pretty much only run randoms! I do dungeons cos they are fun and I like the variety of random groups.... if it's not fun, why bother at all? I really don't get, my time is more important than yours as much as I don't get the lollygaggers.. but that's me!?

fioskal

IMO, the onus is on you to let people know if you want to run a dungeon in a specific way.

Need the quest? Say so.

Want to listen to dialogue or kill a side boss? Say so.

I'm more than happy to wait.

Otherwise, I am going to complete the content as quickly and effectively as I can.

zaria

Feanor wrote: »

Or maybe just tell the group politely you haven’t done the quest yet and would like to do it. Most times that will get you the result you wanted.

This, its an small problem and only an issue on some dungeons with long quests dialogues or there you have to go another place to finish quest.
And this double xp event make the problem larger as lots of players uses dungeons for leveling and they run with potion or scroll for extra xp so longer run cost gold or crowns, they also typical run on multiple alts.

Aisle9

visionality wrote: »

As a 1200cp+ player who is still doing random (vet) dungeons just for the fun of it, one personal observation on speedrunners:

Every single speedrunner I've ever met who ran ahead of his group leaving them behind and ruining their dungeon run was batshit bad. Usually wiping at the first instance when the healer did not race behind to rescue his life and the tank did not pull the aggroe back from him. And usually ragequitting after the second wipe because "the group was too bad", which gives everybody a good laugh.

That's not to say that good players can't or won't speedrun. But they do it with regards to their group, making it an enjoyable run for everybody.

Man, 1.2k cp and you still can't find a group capable of running without a healer or a tank ? That's an achievement in itself, gz!