PTS Update 18 - [SPOILERS] Feedback Thread for Summerset Main Quest

Loralai_907

I really enjoyed the main quest line. I was super happy to have Darien back. But then you took him away again, how dare you haha. I had hoped he would be free to wander, that we would be able to interact with him around towns and such. Find him at random bars and other less reputable locations lol. But, since you didn't do that, I'm glad you made him important. And that book, thanks for making me get all teary eyed. Well done.

I only ran through the quests on a test character, so I am looking forward to seeing the differences when using a completed character. Tess Testerson was good and all, but as a test character, she holds no past knowledge of characters or events.

I found the entire quest line engaging. The story was told well and I looked forward to learning more through each part of the quest. Paired with how visually stunning the entire zone is, I am just thrilled with how it all came together and am really glad I preordered this next chapter.

Going forward, I would like to see the end quest done a little differently. They could be a little more engaging. A little more difficult. I know we have to take into consideration newer players and not make the fight so hard that some people cannot get through it. But I would like to feel as invested in that fight as I do for other quest line fights at the very least. It needed something, more.

But like I said, overall, super great job!

WhiteCoatSyndrome

XamXam777 wrote: »

But, the story doesn't really make it clear if Meridia and Azura are okay? I mean it's kind of implied that Meridia doesn't fare well given Darien's whole being 'the last light of Meridia' thing. But it would be a shame if two of the nice Daedric Princes got wiped out.

I'd got the impression that the 'light of Meridia' part was a reference to the vanilla main quest, where you have to go find the Lights of Meridia in Coldharbour.

Regardless, we know they're still around in the later single-player games, so don't worry on that score.

Enodoc

XamXam777 wrote: »

But, the story doesn't really make it clear if Meridia and Azura are okay? I mean it's kind of implied that Meridia doesn't fare well given Darien's whole being 'the last light of Meridia' thing. But it would be a shame if two of the nice Daedric Princes got wiped out.

It's not possible to kill a Daedric Prince, so both of them will bounce back eventually. Besides, both of them are very important to specific storylines again in about 800 years' time.

Revokus

So where are we going next ? does it say ? ☺️

KwarcPL

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Too much of the plot hinges on the Psijic Order being helpless and grabbing the idiot ball. This wouldn't be so grating if the Psijic Order wasn't supposed to be thousands of years old and supposedly one of the most advanced magical orders in existence.

I know how do you feel, but remember, Bethesda never stated that Psijiic are OP and unstoppable. It was just fan's imaginations. We were wrong just like little Ani in TPM. Also, there are clearly intentional parallels between Greybeards and Psijiics. Old and wise Orders, but in fear of interfering the secluded themselves and that's why they don't catch up to changes and seems clumsy in time of intervention. But to cheer you up I'll notice that in fact only one Monk looked bad in Summerset.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

(...) but it's nevertheless a problem that we were given a red-text choice, told that it mattered, and then it doesn't end up mattering at all. Don't bother giving a choice in that case!

Yeah... but notice you were running on defaults. PTS doesn't remember your choices. For it, you've started game on Summerset without engaging in Planemeld, Vvardenfel or CWC. There was even Darien's quote explaining that. Time works different in Oblivion, so his past is our future, but I believe when we replay Summerset on our Home Servers we will got different dialogs.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Meridia ruined Darien's reveal by telling me who the Golden Knight is before I meet him. And then, in spite of the fact that I've been flat-out told who he is, my character acts surprised when we meet him after rescuing him.

Well, you should realive before that who is he. I was few missions ahead of my friend and I just told him "it seems that this Golden Knight dude is using Dawnbreaker" and it was enough for him to guess who he was. But you have right, that's kind-a odd, that Meridia delivered that reveal. But maybe it would look different when you play with completed vanilla game?

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Agree with the general consensus that the final fight at the top of the tower is...corny. In addition to Nocturnal floating in the background like a cartoon character, her idea of a bossfight is 'Oh, you killed my champion twice already? I'll just bring her back a third time with even more arms!' Recycling Veya-as-a-multiarmed-monstrosity for the same fight was just lazy.

I have no problems with final fight. For me it was damn good fight. Also, who you wanted to fight with? Nocturnal herself? I believe we aren't on Prince, especially Ur-Dra, level... yet.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

The Sea Sload got a depressingly small part in the plot given that they set large parts of it off.

Small? Half of Summerset delve's are about Sloads. In fact I have problem with them as too common foe. Sload, Maormers, Sload, Maormers, Sloads... again. Summerset's dungeons are rotating around those two enemies.

Sparky617

Raz's voice when you first talk to him in Sumerset echos a lot. Sounds like he's talking in an empty room.

Sparky617

Conserator Vinalore never actually fired and arrow before Talomar fell to the ground.

Sparky617

Talk to Elise does not produce a white quest arrow over her.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

KwarcPL wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Too much of the plot hinges on the Psijic Order being helpless and grabbing the idiot ball. This wouldn't be so grating if the Psijic Order wasn't supposed to be thousands of years old and supposedly one of the most advanced magical orders in existence.

I know how do you feel, but remember, Bethesda never stated that Psijiic are OP and unstoppable. It was just fan's imaginations. We were wrong just like little Ani in TPM. Also, there are clearly intentional parallels between Greybeards and Psijiics. Old and wise Orders, but in fear of interfering the secluded themselves and that's why they don't catch up to changes and seems clumsy in time of intervention. But to cheer you up I'll notice that in fact only one Monk looked bad in Summerset.

I'm not asking for them to be all-powerful, I'm asking for them to be knowledgeable, because that's supposed to be their whole gimmick! They've

got a whole basement full of major artifacts and yet they never bothered to learn how to hack the keys to the Crystal Tower? It certainly qualifies as powerful, and until they took the island out of Tamriel, it was practically in their back yard! And ask the NPCs about Cephorah Tower - not only do they not know who built that, despite living in it, but they don't even have any theories! How can you be an order based on learning how reality works and not even have any theories on who built you crazily-old house?

KwarcPL wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

(...) but it's nevertheless a problem that we were given a red-text choice, told that it mattered, and then it doesn't end up mattering at all. Don't bother giving a choice in that case!

Yeah... but notice you were running on defaults. PTS doesn't remember your choices. For it, you've started game on Summerset without engaging in Planemeld, Vvardenfel or CWC. There was even Darien's quote explaining that. Time works different in Oblivion, so his past is our future, but I believe when we replay Summerset on our Home Servers we will got different dialogs.

No, I'm NA. Which means I'm on my own characters right now, not templates. And as I said there were bits of dialog acknowledging it, they just ignored the actual choice, namely, Veya should be dead, not shoe-horned into the current plotline.

KwarcPL wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Meridia ruined Darien's reveal by telling me who the Golden Knight is before I meet him. And then, in spite of the fact that I've been flat-out told who he is, my character acts surprised when we meet him after rescuing him.

Well, you should realive before that who is he. I was few missions ahead of my friend and I just told him "it seems that this Golden Knight dude is using Dawnbreaker" and it was enough for him to guess who he was. But you have right, that's kind-a odd, that Meridia delivered that reveal. But maybe it would look different when you play with completed vanilla game?

I had it spoiled beforehand; that isn't the point. There will be people who don't realize it, but thanks to Meridia even those people are going to lose the surprise. And again, not using templates.

KwarcPL wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Agree with the general consensus that the final fight at the top of the tower is...corny. In addition to Nocturnal floating in the background like a cartoon character, her idea of a bossfight is 'Oh, you killed my champion twice already? I'll just bring her back a third time with even more arms!' Recycling Veya-as-a-multiarmed-monstrosity for the same fight was just lazy.

I have no problems with final fight. For me it was damn good fight. Also, who you wanted to fight with? Nocturnal herself? I believe we aren't on Prince, especially Ur-Dra, level... yet.

Then with respect, your standards are low. It's recycling itself as far as boss monster goes and is otherwise uninspiring. And it sounds like you haven't beaten the vanilla main questline.

KwarcPL wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

The Sea Sload got a depressingly small part in the plot given that they set large parts of it off.

Small? Half of Summerset delve's are about Sloads. In fact I have problem with them as too common foe. Sload, Maormers, Sload, Maormers, Sloads... again. Summerset's dungeons are rotating around those two enemies.

But the delves are delves, not part of the main questline, which is my complaint.

Marisana

I finished the main story on a new test character. The character focused solely on the main story line (with some Psijic Order questing on the side) because I wanted to see how well the main story holds up if you A ) are completely new to the game and so know none of the NPCs and prior events, and B ) don't stretch it out with additional Summerset content.

MAIN STORY

I enjoyed it very much. It is a very cool story and has a lot of meat to it, with some interesting twists and turns in the story that kept me well engaged and entertained until the very end. Even as a new character who had no IC connections to any of the NPCs it was very enjoyable, and I really cannot wait to play it with my main once the chapter goes live!

I'm just a bit concerned how this chapter might influence new players and their view of ESO as a whole. For my main character who has played all the main stories and chapters/DLCs up to this point, it makes perfect sense to wrangle with three Daedric Princes at a time and still come out on top at the end.

But if I imagined playing this epic story with a new character and everyone expects my level 15 character to take on Nocturnal all on my own, it feels a tad weird and out-of-place. Also, how can such an epic struggle ever be topped? Nothing else in the rest of the game will be as epic. Even Coldharbour is kinda lame after that - it's just one Prince, after all.

So even though I love what I have seen of Summerset so far, I feel it is a very bad place to start a new character since the story feels crafted for more experienced characters and not a farmhand fresh out for adventure, and I wonder if new players play through Summerset and then don't like the rest of the game as much because it's comparatively low-key. Morrowind found a much better balance between telling a compelling, epic story and making it accessible and sensible for all levels of experience.

THINGS I LIKED AND DISLIKED

- Summerset is beautiful. I love the new towns, the forest, the hills - every location just looks amazing and has the lighting and colour to truly make it shine. On that regard, the Chapter gets an 11/10 from me!

- I don't like the new tutorial very much. Not only is the blur effect irritating and headache-inducing, I also feel it doesn't communicate some of the important mechanics of ESO at all, like sneaking and lockpicking. In Morrowind, there was a tutorial that not only handed every player all the weapons and armour they could dream of but also taught them all the core mechanics of the game. Summerset feels rushed in that regard - you only find random loot and it doesn't get properly explained that players should hunt for it and pick it up, and some armour types are so rare that two times I was unable to unlock the medium armour skill line because I didn't find 3 pieces of medium armour in the whole tutorial area!

There is no sneaking or lockpicking tutorial, and when you are getting your first level-up the game asks you to either ignore it for a while or miss out on some exposition as your quest partner just runs off and you miss a part of her tutorial dialogue if you stop and level up, as the game asks you to do.

All in all, I liked the look of the location but as a tutorial I think it is the worst of all that we have so far, and I hope that it will either see an overhaul or that we will get the option to select at character creation what tutorial we actually want to start with so that I can continue to spawn new characters in Morrowind.

RANDOM THOUGHTS AND COMMENTS

- I noticed that Shimmerene has crafting stations but not a single merchant to buy basic trait stones from. Since this is the first town a new player will visit and try to get his crafting game on, I think it would be a great help if such a vendor existed close-by.

- the new Ad window is very big, and I'd like it well if it could be reduced in size for release.

- new quests now automatically override the quest you are currently on. I found that rather tiresome since you pick up many quests in one location by design, and then I always had to retoggle the quest I actually wanted to finish. I think it would be a lot better if this feature could be turned ON or OFF under 'Settings' depending on one's preferences.

- potions were terribly rare during my playthrough. My new toon looted everything he could without stealing and at level 7 had found only 1 (!) healing potion, and not a single magicka or stamina potion. As an old ESO veteran I managed just fine, but I think this could be pretty tiresome for new players who are unable to cook good buff food etc. themselves

- I found it weird that even my Altmer character was treated as a Newcomer. Sure, they do get a more favourable reception overall and different dialogue in many places, which I liked, but why are they still called outsiders when they look like every other Altmer on the island? Or is there a secret handshake he doesn't know that betrays his Non-Summerset origin? All in all, that befuddled me.

BUGS THAT I NOTICED

- during MQ "Buried Memories", the Abyssal Pearl is always visible inside the pool until the quest is concluded, even though it is claimed to be stolen

- in Rellenthil, Razum Dar never appears at my character's side or where the quest marker claims he should be. I had to leave the town completely to have him spawn waiting at the edge of the town. But even then, his quest marker pointed at the wrong location.

- the elegant outfit in MQ "The Queen's Decree" hides vampirism

- the Dawnstar Gem during MQ "The Tower Sentinels" has a '?' icon instead of some sort of gem icon

All in all, I was very impressed how bugfree and stable Summerset has presented itself so far, and I cannot wait to play it properly in June!

Enodoc

Just wanted to echo what others have said above that it seems really out-of-place for Meridia to do the "big reveal" of Darien during that scene in the Eton Nir Grotto. It's unnecessary for the progression of the story at that time. I would much prefer keeping the mystery until you actually meet him, and have her continue to refer to him just as the Golden Knight or the "vassal".

baratron

StormRaven wrote: »

One last request on a long standing issue my wife has had with the Controls, particularly if using the X-Box One controller (both on pc or x-bone). Players don't necessarily need to have quick slots on the dpad for the following: Emotes, Quest changing, or Perspective changing, (Default D-pad Right for Emotes & Quest and D-Pad Down for Perspective). For players that find the 3 default templates don't suit them, would it be possible to allow players to have full controller customization where players can set the buttons to a setup that works for their ability?

There is full controller customisation on PC. Each ability can have up to 4 keybinds, and these can be keyboard, mouse, or controller buttons.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Marisana wrote: »

- the elegant outfit in MQ "The Queen's Decree" hides vampirism

I forgot to check on my last run through, but if it's classified as a Disguise rather than a Costume - that's normal. EX: My vampire Templar looks perfectly mortal while wearing the Bleakrock bandit disguise.

Numerikuu

The main quest was great, best one yet imo. But my god you did a disservice to Nocturnal's character model. She looks dreadful. The final fight was also pretty lackluster (Molag's still reigns supreme). Given how much time and effort Nocturnal spent plotting it all I feel she would have done a lot more to stop you, especially with how close she was to her goal. Throwing the same 'champion' at you constantly felt super weak.

Those things aside though, A+

Shalaga

Hello,

So I have been doing the main quest line when I got up to entering the K'Tora mind. I entered got to the K'tora, died a couple of times and decided to leave his mind and come back later when I was a higher level. So a week or so later after gaining a couple of levels I try going back. I have the buried memories quest, I follow it through to when I need to burn the web away (just before the golden knight guy shows up), but I am unable to trigger the burning web action. I have tried three times now and its not working.

After abandoning the main quest line and picking it up again it appears to have fixed the issue.

MattVH

So i'm playing through The Queen's Decree with my ported EU character. My character has completed all dlc's quests and morrowind quests and i even got the "Fortune and Fate" (Learn of things to come.) achievement from clockwork city.
Yet her dialogue goes like this, when you speak to the Ritemaster: "Sotha Sil? What threat? I don't understand". He then goes on about who Sotha Sil is. I was hoping my character would be a bit more involved by now.

This one is a but more nitpicky but it felt really..... off: The first dialogue with Razum-Dar is really weird if you know him already. Your response is just there so that he can react to the word "ominous" while you have no reason to use that word whatsoever.

I'm hoping it will get better in terms of logic and references to former feats.

EDIT: It got a lot better further through the storyline. Well done!

Overall i’m really happy with the main quest. I agree with a lot of people in this thread about the visual representation of Nocturnal though. She really could use some sort of skin or radiance to make her more unique (like mephala and clavicus), mostly because she ends up floating in a very large upscaled version of herself, not doing much and in a pretty bad resolution. It’s mostly that upscaled model that didn’t look right and is the only thing that left a pretty bad impression.

KwarcPL

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I'm not asking for them to be all-powerful, I'm asking for them to be knowledgeable, because that's supposed to be their whole gimmick! (...)

Once more, that's fan interpretation. Bethesda never stated they have complex knowledge in every topic. They ain't Tony Stark.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

They've got a whole basement full of major artifacts and yet they never bothered to learn how to hack the keys to the Crystal Tower?

Acknowledge that Nocturnal needed Heart of Transparent Law to hack herself into Tower and Mephala used both keys and help of Clavicus to get you inside. So as you can see it's not that easy and for me they are excused. Of course, it's kind-a silly that they got their grand role just to act like goofs, but well... you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. Happily only one Psijiic was in fact ridiculed.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

No, I'm NA. Which means I'm on my own characters right now, not templates. And as I said there were bits of dialog acknowledging it, they just ignored the actual choice, namely, Veya should be dead, not shoe-horned into the current plotline.

How it's possible? I had to download PTS client to play Summerset beta. Even in mail from ZOS it was described as steps necessary to play it. So how could you possibly access this Chapter through NA?

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Then with respect, your standards are low. It's recycling itself as far as boss monster goes and is otherwise uninspiring. And it sounds like you haven't beaten the vanilla main questline.

Wrong, I've beaten crap out of Molag Bal lik 700 hours of gameplay ago. Also I'm not sure if you noticed, but vanilla fight was under significantly different circumstances. Vestige was empowered with Divine Energy from Chim-el Adabal. While in Summerset we were running on our own juice. Also, notice that Nocturnal is noticeably more powerful than Molag Bal.

As for fight... I've played it before nerf in patches and for me it was quite challanging. Of course, Tundilwen had several stages, but I don't understand calling it recycling. It's quite popular boss mechanics. In ESO and in other MMO. So for me it's nothing wrong they used it. Yes, she could be more unique, but ZOS is avoiding implementing complex mechanics in normal gameplay. They are resserved for veterans, trials, etc. Fight with Molag Bal wasn't that compound either. As well as with Barbas o Sotha's Shade.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

But the delves are delves, not part of the main questline, which is my complaint.

And what? Being in delves makes them less present or what? Main questline is about Daedric Threat, so there was not that much space for Sloads, but ZOS made it up for us in dungeons. If there is anything to complain about Sloads, it's their insignificance. Their were common enemy in Summerset, but placing them here was leading nowhere. They are just voiceless bosses and mob conjurers. I want to know them more. What about Abyssal Cabal? Why they are so much of enemy with Altmer? What is their goal? And culture? Why is Gamora? Oh wait... wrong universe. Anyway, we got unsatisfactory intel into Sea Sload. In fact K'Tora was the only one of them with dialogue. I want more...

feyii

KwarcPL wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

No, I'm NA. Which means I'm on my own characters right now, not templates. And as I said there were bits of dialog acknowledging it, they just ignored the actual choice, namely, Veya should be dead, not shoe-horned into the current plotline.

How it's possible? I had to download PTS client to play Summerset beta. Even in mail from ZOS it was described as steps necessary to play it. So how could you possibly access this Chapter through NA?

Every few weeks / patches the live characters of either PC NA or PC EU are copied to PTS. The firsts weeks of this PTC cycle the copies were from PC NA, since patch 4.0.3 the characters from PC EU are copied. So whenever your live characters are copied you can play on the PTS continuing from where they left of at live.

KwarcPL

feyii wrote: »

Every few weeks / patches the live characters of either PC NA or PC EU are copied to PTS. The firsts weeks of this PTC cycle the copies were from PC NA, since patch 4.0.3 the characters from PC EU are copied. So whenever your live characters are copied you can play on the PTS continuing from where they left of at live.

That's quite intriguing... but also kind-a annoying. How I could test this game if every patch endanger my account with dropping all my progress? I'm playing PTS from 16 April and it's second time when they reset me. I would really appreciate if they stop meddling and just let me play.

Anyway, if even so, you're still playing on PTS, not NA or EU. Of course, you're running on copy of your live character, but still... it's test server on test settings. So we cannot tell if Summerset won't acknowledge your choices or for beta purposes we are running on defaults. Time will show, but I hope we'll got adequate dialogues. It would be odd if not...

Mystrius_Archaion

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Esha76 wrote: »

Though I agree, Nocturnal is rather unimpressive to look at. I do hope that skin is a place holder.

I'm pretty sure that her voice is the same as several Redguards' voices, or at least sounds the same. Mephala got this AWESOME character model, and Clavicus Vile got an okay one too (can you tell I'm biased?), so why does Nocturnal just look like a giant version of a female Redguard? She's supposed to be fair-skinned and slim-skinny, but from where I was standing, she looked pretty thick. You guys couldn't have used a Breton model at least?

Actually, the redguard makes sense as they are "darker" than other races, but it definitely was lackluster seeing a normal face and eyes in the giant form when the smaller form had glowing hands and eyes that shrouded the face some.

I am very happy Nocturnal is wearing the Shrike costume though. It's so cool to be able to look very similar to one of the coolest daedric princes, and that is the outfit from Skyrim that quickly spawned mods for players to wear it.

Enodoc

KwarcPL wrote: »

feyii wrote: »

Every few weeks / patches the live characters of either PC NA or PC EU are copied to PTS. The firsts weeks of this PTC cycle the copies were from PC NA, since patch 4.0.3 the characters from PC EU are copied. So whenever your live characters are copied you can play on the PTS continuing from where they left of at live.

That's quite intriguing... but also kind-a annoying. How I could test this game if every patch endanger my account with dropping all my progress? I'm playing PTS from 16 April and it's second time when they reset me. I would really appreciate if they stop meddling and just let me play.

Anyway, if even so, you're still playing on PTS, not NA or EU. Of course, you're running on copy of your live character, but still... it's test server on test settings. So we cannot tell if Summerset won't acknowledge your choices or for beta purposes we are running on defaults. Time will show, but I hope we'll got adequate dialogues. It would be odd if not...

Quest dialogue conditions from copied characters vs template characters are one of the things that it is necessary to test. If a copied character is not recognised as different from a new or template character on PTS, they won't be recognised as different on Live either.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

KwarcPL wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I'm not asking for them to be all-powerful, I'm asking for them to be knowledgeable, because that's supposed to be their whole gimmick! (...)

Once more, that's fan interpretation. Bethesda never stated they have complex knowledge in every topic. They ain't Tony Stark.

Wrong:

Ancient and mysterious scholars, it is said the Psijic Order were the first in Tamriel to study the secrets of Mysticism or the “Old Ways". This study has allowed the Order to develop knowledge and power not found anywhere else in Tamriel, and there are rumors that they have obtained the ability to manipulate the flow of time itself.
“The Psijic Order have stated that they are primarily interested in learning the fundamental basics of the world and universe, what holds it together, and what could threaten it," explains Lawrence Schick, The Elder Scrolls Online's Loremaster. “They are dedicated to knowledge and study for its own ends, and to them, knowledge is its own reward."
For centuries, the Psijic Order conducted their studies in seclusion on their island home of Artaeum. Located just south of Summerset, it was there within the ancient halls of Ceporah Tower (a massive structure that pre-dates even the arrival of the Ancient Elves) that they explored the mysteries of the universe, rarely leaving their island home.

KwarcPL wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

They've got a whole basement full of major artifacts and yet they never bothered to learn how to hack the keys to the Crystal Tower?

Acknowledge that Nocturnal needed Heart of Transparent Law to hack herself into Tower and Mephala used both keys and help of Clavicus to get you inside. So as you can see it's not that easy and for me they are excused. Of course, it's kind-a silly that they got their grand role just to act like goofs, but well... you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. Happily only one Psijiic was in fact ridiculed.

Again, it was practically in their back yard. Even not counting the 300+ years they've been out of Nirn (which, as is pointed out in-game, doesn't actually prevent them from visiting Summerset), they've had centuries before this to wander over and take a look at how the things work.

KwarcPL wrote: »

Also I'm not sure if you noticed, but vanilla fight was under significantly different circumstances. Vestige was empowered with Divine Energy from Chim-el Adabal. While in Summerset we were running on our own juice. Also, notice that Nocturnal is noticeably more powerful than Molag Bal.

Wrong again. You've forgotten one of the main plot points of the final quest: we need an item of divine energy to restore the Heart of Transparent Law. We just got our divine juice from Meridia this time, via Dawnbreaker via Darien Gautier. And no, Nocturnal isn't; where are you getting the idea that she is?

KwarcPL wrote: »

As for fight... I've played it before nerf in patches and for me it was quite challanging. Of course, Tundilwen had several stages, but I don't understand calling it recycling.

They used the same thing over and over. "To use again in the original form or with minimal alteration" is straight off of dictionary.com under 'recycling.'

KwarcPL wrote: »

And what? Being in delves makes them less present or what? Main questline is about Daedric Threat, so there was not that much space for Sloads, but ZOS made it up for us in dungeons

Again, my complaint is about the main questline. Being in delves does not make them show up more often in the main quest.

BigBadVolk

btw I totally forgot about the Veya things, just speak with Naryu in Vivec city in the Ziggurat where you can enter the Outlaw Hideout there she will mention she got another letter from the ashlander tribe who sees the future and she will say that the fire part is replaced with darkness or smth like that

TiaFrye

I've made re-run of the main quest on EU-copy character the other day and was quite happy to see some improvments (lots of little things, in fact). Mainly, Nocturnal's shrikes got new cowls, tiaras and tattos. Fingers crossed that they will update Nocturnal herself with, at least hair and some effects around her body before May 21st. She's still the cheapiest looking thing in the game compared to Mephala, who was fortunate to be character for the marketing this time.
Really, the moment when she appears in front of her statue in Evergolam... it was like that "expectations and reality" meme.

Footfalls

BigBadVolk wrote: »

btw I totally forgot about the Veya things, just speak with Naryu in Vivec city in the Ziggurat where you can enter the Outlaw Hideout there she will mention she got another letter from the ashlander tribe who sees the future and she will say that the fire part is replaced with darkness or smth like that

This sounds interesting, what does she say? Is it dialogue, or is there a letter? Do you mean inside the Outlaws Refuge or at the tunnel entrance in the ziggurat? Where is Naryu standing exactly?

BigBadVolk

Footfalls wrote: »

BigBadVolk wrote: »

btw I totally forgot about the Veya things, just speak with Naryu in Vivec city in the Ziggurat where you can enter the Outlaw Hideout there she will mention she got another letter from the ashlander tribe who sees the future and she will say that the fire part is replaced with darkness or smth like that

This sounds interesting, what does she say? Is it dialogue, or is there a letter? Do you mean inside the Outlaws Refuge or at the tunnel entrance in the ziggurat? Where is Naryu standing exactly?

Inside the ziggurat if you go into the outlaw den and go to the ladder and go up inside the ziggurat where there is a praying tribunal priest she appears (not all times sometimes she is outside with a diff dialogue) if I'll have time I'll try to upload a picture of the dialogue cant find anything on uesp or even the wiki at her dialogue part

Footfalls

BigBadVolk wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

BigBadVolk wrote: »

btw I totally forgot about the Veya things, just speak with Naryu in Vivec city in the Ziggurat where you can enter the Outlaw Hideout there she will mention she got another letter from the ashlander tribe who sees the future and she will say that the fire part is replaced with darkness or smth like that

This sounds interesting, what does she say? Is it dialogue, or is there a letter? Do you mean inside the Outlaws Refuge or at the tunnel entrance in the ziggurat? Where is Naryu standing exactly?

Inside the ziggurat if you go into the outlaw den and go to the ladder and go up inside the ziggurat where there is a praying tribunal priest she appears (not all times sometimes she is outside with a diff dialogue) if I'll have time I'll try to upload a picture of the dialogue cant find anything on uesp or even the wiki at her dialogue part

Found it, took some screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/WD5ML8T

KwarcPL

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Wrong: (...)

Still, "develop knowledge and power not found anywhere else in Tamriel" =/= "they have complex knowledge in every topic". I don't deny they are smart and powerful, but being really good at Time Alteration doesn't mean you are master lockpickers. They are two sepparate domains. The same is in real life. Professor on Quantum Physics ain't necessary fluent in Ancient Rome Literature.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Again, it was practically in their back yard. (...), they've had centuries before this to wander over and take a look at how the things work.

But they never had need for creating backdoor into Crystal Tower. They were Psijiics, if they they demmanded entry, they got it. Like Ritemaster when he 'borrowed' Gemstone. Also you must know that they weren't trying to break in under normal circumstances. Tower was hacked by Nocturnal and they aren't that good with Daedric Magic. It's out their circle of interest. Maybe normally they can teleport themselves inside just by snapping their fingers?

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Wrong again. You've forgotten one of the main plot points of the final quest: we need an item of divine energy to restore the Heart of Transparent Law. We just got our divine juice from Meridia this time, via Dawnbreaker via Darien Gautier. And no, Nocturnal isn't; where are you getting the idea that she is?

But you understand difference between carrying a nuke and being the nuke? Also Dawnbreaker was used to cleanse Heart, not to fight Nocturnal. And where I got that idea? She's Ur-Dra (First Ancestor) and aspect of original Void itself. Also check her artifacts. Key that opens every lock, even metaphysical like hidden power or connection between god and his realm or cowl warping your identity. And Molag Bal? Just some fancy mace. Oh, and remember she banished two Daedric Princes with ease. While Molag Bal had to take fight with some boosted mortal. As you can see they are several proofs.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

They used the same thing over and over. "To use again in the original form or with minimal alteration" is straight off of dictionary.com under 'recycling.'

Well... maybe I was anesthetized by group dungeons, but I don't have problem with that. Stage mechanic in boss fight is something so obvious and common I don't mind. Also is it really worse from previous finals? Molag, Barbas and Sotha's Shade. All of them have no varieties. Just punchout.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Being in delves does not make them show up more often in the main quest.'

Again, what's the difference? Is it really that important to have Sea Sloads in main questline? For me? No. I have no problem if they are more in side quest than in main story.

TPC9000

-

KwarcPL

Oh... I almost forgot, in fight with Molag Bal we presumably had Prismatic Weapon, which was also vessel of Meridia's power. Highly effective against Daedra. So in theory we were like double boosted. Yes, finnishing Fighters Guild questline before grand finale was optional, but it seems to be scenario's intention.

TPC9000 wrote: »

You do actually use Dawnbreaker to mess up Nocturnal. It destroys her initial form, booting her outside of the Crystal Tower, and you use (or are supposed to) Dawnbreaker throughout the fight at regular intervals by pressing X.

I must admit I don't recall that moment with messing Nocturnal up. I believe you remembered that fight better than me I try to pay attention for that point during replay on Live Server. And for tapping "X", it was against Earl, not Ur-Dra herself. However yes, Dawnbreaker was somewhat efficient against Nocturnal. Darien used it to cast away her 'Eternal Darkness' technique, just like Divayth Fyr. But as you see, in both cases of using that attack we needed Demigod's help.

TPC9000 wrote: »

Earlier in the main quest, Nocturnal effortlessly disbands the Psijic Ritemaster, the manifestations of two other Princes and almost Darien while fully manifested. She pulls Dawnbreaker right out of Darien's hand. There is obviously something preventing her from doing that to you in the Crystal Tower fight.

I believe I know answer. While doing all that cool stuff she had the high ground. Ur-Dra was in her realm, extension of her will. Within Evergloam she's much stronger. And Crystal Tower, on the other hand, was enemy territory, highly secured enemy territory. But there's more. She was simultaneously manifesting herself on Nirn, hacking Transparent Law and conducting her power into Earl. It must be exhaustive, ever for Ur-Dra herself.

Of course, it's just my attemp at explaining what happened and I'm affraid that we never got official answer, but somethimes it's just how TES works. Look at Skyrim. Why Shor wasn't at his place? What happened to Alduin? Why we didn't aquire his soul? We don't know and we can only guess.

TPC9000 wrote: »

The least that could be added is intense atmospherics, more interesting mechanics, and most importantly if they neglect the former, a good reason as to why Nocturnal is so idle.

That's right. Tundilwen looks just like Mournful Aegis and fight the same. They could make her more interesting/atmoshperics.