(Vivec NA) This Campaign is an AD farming contest. AD has no morale.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

At nearly any point, a simple 12-16 man ep ball group can literally farm the entire AD faction on Vivec. This series of Defeat after defeat is completely eroding the fragile fleeting morale that my poor faction currently has. EP and DC rarely fight each other now because they can make more ap faster by simply double teaming the weak and pug-like ad. The double teaming of the weakest faction isnt anything new, but i have noticed the complete lack of morale that ad concurrently has. The poor ad rout and flee even when they have an advantage in number, and are completely dependent on the guild groups. The guild groups want absolutely nothing to do with the PuGs because they hate them for their weakness. AD we must fight back! We must rally! We can do better!

JobooAGS

You should go to ales bleaks and chal the next time you think dc and ep dont fight each other

Prince_of_all_Pugs

i know they fight each other, especially when DC tries to make chalman there home keep. Just saying DC and EP rarely farm other on the same scale they farm AD.

zyk

JobooAGS wrote: »

You should go to ales bleaks and chal the next time you think dc and ep dont fight each other

There are shades of grey between black and white.

I have no idea what's going on with Vivec at the moment, but it seems to me that very few campaigns across all platforms are competitive because so many players are willing and able to hope to another faction if there's a better situation for them. Players of all types do this.

The game needs team balance mechanisms to better encourage parity for better fights and more interesting campaigns.

Satiar

AD pugs have always been the easiest to fight. If good guilds aren't on to protect them, it's what happens. Dunno why.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

Another thing we have to consider is that Fire and cold fire siege is completely ineffective against ball groups (even when massed). i dont know if they removed the AOE cap on Purge but it feels like it. fire siege is the only way PuGs can counter organized ball groups.

DisgracefulMind

It honestly depends on the day and which guilds are on. I know my raid on Friday went back and forth between AD and DC frequently, and had fun fights all around. AD has good guilds now, actually, and fighting them is quite fun.

But AD is not outnumbered, in fact, quite the opposite. Your raids just need to spread out more. I see Omni (I think that's what they decided to finally call themselves) going around looking for fights, but Dominant Dominion, Dominion Knights, and the other group frequently flock to one single place, even if it's a resource, at a time. It would be better if they spread out to different areas of the map as well.

That being said, I deeply wish ZoS would give us some more organized PvP. Arenas would be insanely fun and draw such a huge interest into PvP. Imagine cool 8v8 arenas. Just something other than the mess that is battlegrounds.

Iskras

Satiar wrote: »

AD pugs have always been the easiest to fight. If good guilds aren't on to protect them, it's what happens. Dunno why.

... the most fun part is when some pugs - literally - devour ancient and strong guilds, as it happens in fare every weekend.

Satiar

Iskras wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

AD pugs have always been the easiest to fight. If good guilds aren't on to protect them, it's what happens. Dunno why.

... the most fun part is when some pugs - literally - devour ancient and strong guilds, as it happens in fare every weekend.

As a member of an ancient and strong guild, the use of the word "literally" makes me nervous... you bosmer, mate?

Satiar

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It honestly depends on the day and which guilds are on. I know my raid on Friday went back and forth between AD and DC frequently, and had fun fights all around. AD has good guilds now, actually, and fighting them is quite fun.

But AD is not outnumbered, in fact, quite the opposite. Your raids just need to spread out more. I see Omni (I think that's what they decided to finally call themselves) going around looking for fights, but Dominant Dominion, Dominion Knights, and the other group frequently flock to one single place, even if it's a resource, at a time. It would be better if they spread out to different areas of the map as well.

That being said, I deeply wish ZoS would give us some more organized PvP. Arenas would be insanely fun and draw such a huge interest into PvP. Imagine cool 8v8 arenas. Just something other than the mess that is battlegrounds.

Yes, to our shame, Ixtyr settled on Omni. Lemon Party was straight out

DisgracefulMind

Satiar wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It honestly depends on the day and which guilds are on. I know my raid on Friday went back and forth between AD and DC frequently, and had fun fights all around. AD has good guilds now, actually, and fighting them is quite fun.

But AD is not outnumbered, in fact, quite the opposite. Your raids just need to spread out more. I see Omni (I think that's what they decided to finally call themselves) going around looking for fights, but Dominant Dominion, Dominion Knights, and the other group frequently flock to one single place, even if it's a resource, at a time. It would be better if they spread out to different areas of the map as well.

That being said, I deeply wish ZoS would give us some more organized PvP. Arenas would be insanely fun and draw such a huge interest into PvP. Imagine cool 8v8 arenas. Just something other than the mess that is battlegrounds.

Yes, to our shame, Ixtyr settled on Omni. Lemon Party was straight out

I was sure it was Omni, but I didn't want to say it was without a double check.

But, yes, fighting you guys has been really enjoyable.

DisgracefulMind

Iskras wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

AD pugs have always been the easiest to fight. If good guilds aren't on to protect them, it's what happens. Dunno why.

... the most fun part is when some pugs - literally - devour ancient and strong guilds, as it happens in fare every weekend.

Well, when there's 2-3 "pug" guilds in one spot, equaling almost 60 people, it does become a little much for 12-16 to handle sometimes xD

Rohamad_Ali

Can you season the bait or something ? Waters not chummy enough .

Iskras

- Most of the time there are few pugs. Some guilds seem to underestimate other players (normal when time passes and these guilds only do 'zerg' 100% of the time). They end up underestimating individual fighting and new players. It is not by chance that, most of the time, in Fare, AD he returns with ease.

Iskras

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Iskras wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

AD pugs have always been the easiest to fight. If good guilds aren't on to protect them, it's what happens. Dunno why.

... the most fun part is when some pugs - literally - devour ancient and strong guilds, as it happens in fare every weekend.

Well, when there's 2-3 "pug" guilds in one spot, equaling almost 60 people, it does become a little much for 12-16 to handle sometimes xD

Well, I know it's a habit to overestimate numbers to value themselves, nothing against, but I do not see 60 x few heroes ... I see 20 AD - literally - devouring another 15, maybe 10-13 players.

technohic

zyk wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

You should go to ales bleaks and chal the next time you think dc and ep dont fight each other

There are shades of grey between black and white.

I have no idea what's going on with Vivec at the moment, but it seems to me that very few campaigns across all platforms are competitive because so many players are willing and able to hope to another faction if there's a better situation for them. Players of all types do this.

The game needs team balance mechanisms to better encourage parity for better fights and more interesting campaigns.

I don’t know how faction hopping works on Vivec. All 3 factions are pop locked. If you see a side winning; might all change by the time you get through the queue.

Iskras

technohic wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

You should go to ales bleaks and chal the next time you think dc and ep dont fight each other

There are shades of grey between black and white.

I have no idea what's going on with Vivec at the moment, but it seems to me that very few campaigns across all platforms are competitive because so many players are willing and able to hope to another faction if there's a better situation for them. Players of all types do this.

The game needs team balance mechanisms to better encourage parity for better fights and more interesting campaigns.

I don’t know how faction hopping works on Vivec. All 3 factions are pop locked. If you see a side winning; might all change by the time you get through the queue.

Old problem. Servers should have a time penalty so that they could change factions. Maybe 60 minutes until I can watch on the same server.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It honestly depends on the day and which guilds are on. I know my raid on Friday went back and forth between AD and DC frequently, and had fun fights all around. AD has good guilds now, actually, and fighting them is quite fun.

But AD is not outnumbered, in fact, quite the opposite. Your raids just need to spread out more. I see Omni (I think that's what they decided to finally call themselves) going around looking for fights, but Dominant Dominion, Dominion Knights, and the other group frequently flock to one single place, even if it's a resource, at a time. It would be better if they spread out to different areas of the map as well.

That being said, I deeply wish ZoS would give us some more organized PvP. Arenas would be insanely fun and draw such a huge interest into PvP. Imagine cool 8v8 arenas. Just something other than the mess that is battlegrounds.

i said "The poor ad rout and flee even when they have an advantage in number" never said anything about AD being outnumbered, stop tooting your own Horn. Dominion Knights needs to flock with other groups because they lack the damage of a true ball group.

Many of these Posts offer no solution, but i will try to Help, if your AD and want to L2 make a difference for the beloved queen, i will try to make PuG raids to give our organized groups like telel and taran some relief, Message me @FIREMAGZZ.

Iskras

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It honestly depends on the day and which guilds are on. I know my raid on Friday went back and forth between AD and DC frequently, and had fun fights all around. AD has good guilds now, actually, and fighting them is quite fun.

But AD is not outnumbered, in fact, quite the opposite. Your raids just need to spread out more. I see Omni (I think that's what they decided to finally call themselves) going around looking for fights, but Dominant Dominion, Dominion Knights, and the other group frequently flock to one single place, even if it's a resource, at a time. It would be better if they spread out to different areas of the map as well.

That being said, I deeply wish ZoS would give us some more organized PvP. Arenas would be insanely fun and draw such a huge interest into PvP. Imagine cool 8v8 arenas. Just something other than the mess that is battlegrounds.

i said "The poor ad rout and flee even when they have an advantage in number" never said anything about AD being outnumbered, stop tooting your own Horn. Dominion Knights needs to flock with other groups because they lack the damage of a true ball group.

Many of these Posts offer no solution, but i will try to Help, if your AD and want to L2 make a difference for the beloved queen, i will try to make PuG raids to give our organized groups like telel and taran some relief, Message me @FIREMAGZZ.

nice, man

DisgracefulMind

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It honestly depends on the day and which guilds are on. I know my raid on Friday went back and forth between AD and DC frequently, and had fun fights all around. AD has good guilds now, actually, and fighting them is quite fun.

But AD is not outnumbered, in fact, quite the opposite. Your raids just need to spread out more. I see Omni (I think that's what they decided to finally call themselves) going around looking for fights, but Dominant Dominion, Dominion Knights, and the other group frequently flock to one single place, even if it's a resource, at a time. It would be better if they spread out to different areas of the map as well.

That being said, I deeply wish ZoS would give us some more organized PvP. Arenas would be insanely fun and draw such a huge interest into PvP. Imagine cool 8v8 arenas. Just something other than the mess that is battlegrounds.

i said "The poor ad rout and flee even when they have an advantage in number" never said anything about AD being outnumbered, stop tooting your own Horn. Dominion Knights needs to flock with other groups because they lack the damage of a true ball group.

Many of these Posts offer no solution, but i will try to Help, if your AD and want to L2 make a difference for the beloved queen, i will try to make PuG raids to give our organized groups like telel and taran some relief, Message me @FIREMAGZZ.

I'm not really praising anyone, especially not myself, I'm not that sort of person, and if you've ever read any of my posts on these forums, they're usually level-headed and polite, so don't try to insult me. I'm just stating that if guilds spread, it makes fighting across the map more dynamic. Which is the truth.

Every faction has pugs, every faction has decent pugs as well that can make impacts on fights. No faction is lacking in this current state of the game. And no one is saying AD isn't bullied sometimes, just like DC or EP is bullied sometimes.

Kartalin

I think the Knights of Ni defection to AD really has turned the tides against DC recently. The regular southward pushes from Ash and Nikel after they get Chalman don’t seem to have the same oomph as they did previously. Or maybe AD has finally got it together in that regard.

I’m not sure how much OP has played on AD lately, or in Vivec specifically. I saw him in zone chat Thursday night freaking out because AD was in a bit of a lull but that’s all part of the ebb and flow. Each faction gets pushed back at times, double teamed, etc. That was just AD’s turn. We later held on to our home keeps for a good while a made it up to hold Ash and Sej before the tides turned again.

Our 8-14 run around trying to do our part, defending keeps, pushing Sej and hold would-be defenders there when AD tries to retake Alessia, and sometimes striking out on our own harassing enemy back lines at Bleakers or thereabouts.

TL;DR I don’t think it’s as dire as OP makes it out to be.

Joy_Division

technohic wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

You should go to ales bleaks and chal the next time you think dc and ep dont fight each other

There are shades of grey between black and white.

I have no idea what's going on with Vivec at the moment, but it seems to me that very few campaigns across all platforms are competitive because so many players are willing and able to hope to another faction if there's a better situation for them. Players of all types do this.

The game needs team balance mechanisms to better encourage parity for better fights and more interesting campaigns.

I don’t know how faction hopping works on Vivec. All 3 factions are pop locked. If you see a side winning; might all change by the time you get through the queue.

I know right

Mazbt

Even if AD gets double teamed and end up losing almost all keeps (at certain points) the beauty of vivec is that it gets reversed rather quick. Within an hour for sure. Sometimes all within one eval period the map goes even again. It can get frustrating but I've seen the map where AD dominates and it can get kind of boring looking for fights. More ap to be gained when on the defensive as well. Also props to Knights of Ni, a very welcome addition to late night period.

Beardimus

Region and platform always help these chats.

If in doubt its US PC generally...

Vilestride

How many guilds and re-rolled guilds does AD need exactly before the forums stop seeing AD needs help posts?

Just to be clear:

AD:
Dom Knights
Dom Dom
Fantasia
Venatus (sometimes running relatively large)
Omni
TKG (non prime time)
Knights of Ni (non prime time)
Ruin
Artem/panda force
Tertiary Meat (sometimes Vivec sometimes shor)
Total Dominion (granted I think these guys are only around when DD and DK aren't up)

DC:
Chuck norris
LoM (sometimes Vivec mostly shor)
Iron legion
PoD
BoD

EP:
Invictus
Pact malitia
Drac
Vae victus
Kush

You'll also note you are winning this cycle. Sorry, but if you're wondering why guilds focus AD it's because their chances of getting a good fight against AD are better given the plethora of guilds you have. Not only does DC have less guilds, they have way less top tier guilds. So AD seems like the obvious target no?

Prince_of_all_Pugs

Kartalin wrote: »

I think the Knights of Ni defection to AD really has turned the tides against DC recently. The regular southward pushes from Ash and Nikel after they get Chalman don’t seem to have the same oomph as they did previously. Or maybe AD has finally got it together in that regard.

I’m not sure how much OP has played on AD lately, or in Vivec specifically. I saw him in zone chat Thursday night freaking out because AD was in a bit of a lull but that’s all part of the ebb and flow. Each faction gets pushed back at times, double teamed, etc. That was just AD’s turn. We later held on to our home keeps for a good while a made it up to hold Ash and Sej before the tides turned again.

Our 8-14 run around trying to do our part, defending keeps, pushing Sej and hold would-be defenders there when AD tries to retake Alessia, and sometimes striking out on our own harassing enemy back lines at Bleakers or thereabouts.

TL;DR I don’t think it’s as dire as OP makes it out to be.

Well if I had 8-12 tm watching my back , I wouldn’t have a problem either kart, but it’s true man the ad pugs on PC VIVEC are getting smashed. In this stage of the game that’s like 80 percent of the ad faction. This Why we aren’t winning any vivec campaigns. This is effecting our entire faction on vivec. Last time I checked you were ad so this effects you in some way. This is a faction problem , I could really use TM’s help right now. Please support me TM, as you once did, when AD was proud and strong.

Vilestride

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

That being said, I deeply wish ZoS would give us some more organised PvP. Arenas would be insanely fun and draw such a huge interest into PvP. Imagine cool 8v8 arenas. Just something other than the mess that is battlegrounds.

I would love this too but to be honest this game doesn't have a mature or competitive enough community to warrant it's implementation and from my experience that includes IVS.

It's incredibly easy to artificially create this scenario and in many cases this kind of thing always starts out artificial and player driven until developers see that it's where the interest lies. Then and only then would it warrant developmental resources. There have been many, many attempts to create this kind of competitive environment and the guild community has either responded with complete disinterest, or have been too thin skinned to get involved due to an array of personal reasons.

So until that changes I think me and you are just going to have to miss out on an actual competitive gaming environment. Let me know if IVS have changed their position on GVGs.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

Vilestride wrote: »

How many guilds and re-rolled guilds does AD need exactly before the forums stop seeing AD needs help posts?

Just to be clear:

AD:
Dom Knights
Dom Dom
Fantasia
Venatus (sometimes running relatively large)
Omni
TKG (non prime time)
Knights of Ni (non prime time)
Ruin
Artem/panda force
Tertiary Meat (sometimes Vivec sometimes shor)
Total Dominion (granted I think these guys are only around when DD and DK aren't up)

DC:
Chuck norris
LoM (sometimes Vivec mostly shor)
Iron legion
PoD
BoD

EP:
Invictus
Pact malitia
Drac
Vae victus
Kush

You'll also note you are winning this cycle. Sorry, but if you're wondering why guilds focus AD it's because their chances of getting a good fight against AD are better given the plethora of guilds you have. Not only does DC have less guilds, they have way less top tier guilds. So AD seems like the obvious target no?

Troop quality and morale are a huge factor that needs to be considered. EP pugs have superior morale and AD pugs. DC pugs have almost unbreakable resolve when within the presence of a streamer. AD needs more morale.

DisgracefulMind

Vilestride wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

That being said, I deeply wish ZoS would give us some more organised PvP. Arenas would be insanely fun and draw such a huge interest into PvP. Imagine cool 8v8 arenas. Just something other than the mess that is battlegrounds.

I would love this too but to be honest this game doesn't have a mature or competitive enough community to warrant it's implementation and from my experience that includes IVS.

It's incredibly easy to artificially create this scenario and in many cases this kind of thing always starts out artificial and player driven until developers see that it's where the interest lies. Then and only then would it warrant developmental resources. There have been many, many attempts to create this kind of competitive environment and the guild community has either responded with complete disinterest, or have been too thin skinned to get involved due to an array of personal reasons.

So until that changes I think me and you are just going to have to miss out on an actual competitive gaming environment. Let me know if IVS have changed their position on GVGs.

Not sure why there is shade being thrown at IVS. The reason we haven't gotten anything organized is because all three of us officers have been incredibly busy these past few months, especially the past month. We raid twice a week, and that's all we can do at the moment. Players have their own groups throughout the week, and that's fine, but real organization is only possible from the three of us twice a week. There are no personal reasons as to why we haven't GvG'd, and our players frequently play with Drac players throughout the week as well.

It's something we'd like to get into, and would love, but with our current lives and schedules, it's just not possible at the moment. That being said, we've had some of our old players come back recently and have really helped guild progress, as we were stuck in a rut for some time, and perhaps it can be something on the list in the near future.

You took a conversation about something entirely else to throw insult at my guild, and I do not appreciate that. I have not spoken ill of Drac, or have said anything unkind of you all, and have friends who play in your guild. Do not come at me on the forums. If you'd like to speak to one of us openly, you can do so in PMs. I'm not a hard player to find, I'm sure you can find my @ name almost anywhere on the PC/NA server.

Minalan

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

i know they fight each other, especially when DC tries to make chalman there home keep. Just saying DC and EP rarely farm other on the same scale they farm AD.

If you want to win a campaign, you go for the guy in first place.

That’s why everyone is stacking on AD. It’s how you actually win the game.

EP and DC aren’t fighting because we don’t want to fight over second place when we can win.

vortexman11

Vilestride wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

That being said, I deeply wish ZoS would give us some more organised PvP. Arenas would be insanely fun and draw such a huge interest into PvP. Imagine cool 8v8 arenas. Just something other than the mess that is battlegrounds.

I would love this too but to be honest this game doesn't have a mature or competitive enough community to warrant it's implementation and from my experience that includes IVS.

It's incredibly easy to artificially create this scenario and in many cases this kind of thing always starts out artificial and player driven until developers see that it's where the interest lies. Then and only then would it warrant developmental resources. There have been many, many attempts to create this kind of competitive environment and the guild community has either responded with complete disinterest, or have been too thin skinned to get involved due to an array of personal reasons.

So until that changes I think me and you are just going to have to miss out on an actual competitive gaming environment. Let me know if IVS have changed their position on GVGs.

We all know how long this game has been out, and we all know that since the beginning there have been multiple player driven Guild versus Guild events. I, presumably like you, want the Devs to be on our side but to say the community has a lack of interest is overstepping, maybe to say members of the community have lost faith would be more accurate. Take a look at any form of instanced PvP outside of Cyrodiil, both dueling and battlegrounds were implemented years after the majority of players who actively put together similar events moved on. The reason many guilds cannot easily setup GvGs is simply because the majority of players who wanted to see that aspect of the game flourish have long since moved on as well, and who is left no longer have the time to put in.

Vile, I think we've always been friendly with each other. For future reference calling guilds out is not an effective way to create a mature and competitive environment.