Templars need reform because the game has changed

Joy_Division

Every class needs something like this. I am only doing templars because that’s the class I know best. I could have made a 30 minute video to explain all this stuff. Or write something that takes less than half that time to read. Went for the latter. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @Cinbri @Minno @Ron_Burgundy_79 @Ashamray @Baconlad @usmcjdking @Solariken @danno8 @Hymzir @DisgracefulMind @caeliusstarbreaker @Lexxypwns @dodgehopper_ESO @tinythinker @PenguinInACan Wow so bad at remembering @ names, those awesome templars out there, if I didn't tag you it's my bad, hopefully someone will direct you here. Stamplars, I don't play your spec so I feel uncomfortable commenting directly, though no doubt many issues overlap (how on earth does trying to land jabs on mobile opponents not drive you up a wall?). Please comment and amend where appropriate.

The Glorious Past. Or at least a time when playing a templar was dynamic and distinctive.

Do a Google Search for 2014 ESO skills and abilities. Marvel at what your class used to be able to do. Gasp in horror how much soul was drained from it to feed the “power creep.” I wonder if ZoS comprehends the cumulative effect of just how much they have gutted from the classes we play.

• Puncturing Sweeps stunned targets, had a straight 170% damage bonus, healed for more and those heals used to crit. Now no more stun (instead just a snare), 140% bonus damage subject to diminishing returns, and it heals for much less with no crits.
• Biting Jabs also did 170% bonus damage and stun, along with acting as quasi execute. Now same damage nerf, just snares, and gives a generic buff available elsewhere.
• Focused Charge was fast, responsive, and managed to hit opponents (and dodge-rollers) without the need for unpurgable auto-snare. Now it’s dodgeable, does less damage, and is noticeably slower.
• Spear Shards stunned an opponent, gave me the conscious ability to provide stamina to my allies, and provided way more resources (25% plus X over 10 seconds). Now it doesn’t stun, I do not have a choice what resource it restores, only restores a flat amount (around 3.7K, maybe 10% your current pool), every other class can replicate this once unique ability, and the damage ticks used to be higher and tick twice as fast (thus twice as many Burning Light procs).
• Blazing Shield was once a functional defense shield for all templars as it was based off health, an attribute the game’s mechanics used to encourage us to invest in. Now it’s a suboptimal choice for all templars excepting niche builds that stack max health (and even then, that build has been nerfed out of existence).
• The Piercing Spear passive used to increase Critical Strike [!] chance. Now it increases Critical damage.
• The Balanced Warrior passive used to benefit all templars’ damage. Now it only does so for “stamplars”
• Eclipse use to always reflect just about everything in the game, healed templars while doing so, and exploded on targets. Now it has a shorter duration, reflects nothing, and will only inflict a flat damage Vs. opponents for using some abilities. It now can either only heal or explode.
• Blinding Flashes used to debuff melee opponents with a unique miss chance that proced Off Balance. It’s now gone.
• The Restoring Spirit passive used to restore magicka when casting a Dawn’s Wrath ability. Now it’s just a generic small cost reduction.
• The Remembrance ultimate morph used to provide my allies with damage reduction. Now it doesn’t.
• Breath of Life once had an additional heal and no targeting restrictions.
• Restoring Aura once provided allies (and the templar) a bonus to their stam recovery not available anywhere else in the game. Now it’s just a generic debuff that restores magicka to my allies only if they attack specific targets.
• Repentance once restored health and stamina to the templar and her allies from corpses. Now it’s a situational heal that causes a lot of arguing between templars in the same group as only the caster gains stamina.
• Channeled Focus once provided its magicka return for the entire 18 second duration of the ability. Now, only 8 seconds after leaving the circle.
• Cleansing Ritual used to cleanse debuffs and incoming projectiles. Now, no more projectiles and it has been made more expensive twice.
• Focused Healing passive once gave me a unique 30% healing buff to allies standing in my protective circles. Now this is called Sacred Ground gives an 8% buff if I am standing in my protective circles.
• Mending once passive gave me a higher chance to critically heal a low health target. This has been replaced with a small bonus of up to 12% healing on a low health target (which is way less than a crit).

Spoiler

The nerfing and general elimination of what once made our classes fun and distinctive to play is not exclusive to Templars. All classes can make a similar list. Our classes and abilities we use have become less important as generic percentage bonuses from the Champion System and powerful gear sets unfortunately now define the characters we play.

Of all the updates, only two abilities are a little better today than the Glorious Past: Piercing Javelin (range increased by 8 meters) and Backlash (removed the awful cast-time).

It’s unfortunate that ZoS’s track record of four years is pretty clear: for every improvement is made, it is accompanied by too many nerfs.

Identifying the primary problems with Templars today.

Every class has issues. I don’t like them, but let’s be real: every class needs issues otherwise they have no weaknesses and are OP. So I’m not going to list all the things that drive me nuts about playing Templars, like being so slow that Vampire is deemed necessary to PvP, the whole “I’m on offensive” “now I’m on defense” strict phases of Templar gameplay that make fighting multiple opponents a losing proposition, or that the class’s “passive” resource management comes from active skills we must slot are all frustrating. I’m just going to accept these as necessary drawback for the class.

That being said, there are five problems that plague Templars that have come as a result of how ESO has changed over time. Old assumptions no longer hold true. Old mechanics have become obsolete. Old strengths have become weaknesses. Specially:

1. The Templar “House.”

Wrobel wrote:

I’m more about putting down areas of protection, and I want to stand in these. This is sort of like my house and if you come into my house, it’s going to be bad for you.

This was said over two years ago. It once sort of kind of worked, for PvE anyway.

But the game has changed. ZoS developers have been stressing the importance necessity of movement in all the end-game PvE challenges. All of VMA’s bosses force me to frequently move. If you don’t move, you die.

In PvP, standing your ground was always a dubious concept. Now we have the destro ultimate, something we Templars can’t buy fire insurance for. And Wardens. How can we ignore Wardens?
Templar: “Behold my mighty circles of protection. I dare you to enter my house!”
Warden: *Casts Corrupting Pollen*
Templar: …

2. Magplars are melee DPS and uncompetitive at it.
Compounding this is that Templars are the slowest class (yes DKs are faster), unable to pursue or flee, and some of their key damage skills are easy to avoid.

In PvE, this means Magplars are unwelcome in the DPS role. (They are also unwelcome as tanks. Templars are once again nudged or, for competitive groups, outright thrown, into healer-support).

In PvP, it’s a bit more complex. If Magplars are by design to be immobile, then their “stand your ground” spammable needs to be better otherwise the concept doesn’t work. Puncturing Sweeps damage is weak (especially so for a skill that is relatively easy to avoid) and its heal has been nerfed so many times that it is wise to not count on it. Reform this terrible combination or drop the entire pretense of a slow class with no means of pursuing or disengaging from enemies.

Spoiler

As for why Puncturing Sweeps heals for much less: No more Major Mending. No more “double dipping” into the Champion System (even though damage skills can, yikes, “triple dip”!). Sweeps damage (and thus healing) got nerfed from 170% to 140%. No more critical heals possible. Percentage nerf to the value that Sweeps healed for. Less healing intake due to nerfs in templar healing passives, such as Mending and what was once called Focused Healing. Defile is much more prevalent and powerful. Sweeps heal for less. A lot less.

Aggravating this is that every opponent a Magplar faces has stronger healing than before. All stamina classes now have easy access to Vigor. Stamina Sorcerers can get 2.6K critical heals from Power Surge every second. NBs Siphoning Strikes heal has been buffed and can crit. Wardens have Lotus Flower and Leeching Vines that offer similar healing and can crit. (Why do these heals crit and not Sweeps? Because ZoS says so?)

Spoiler

Here’s where it gets more complicated. Having healing based as a percent of damage is terrible compared to a static value that can crit. My damage is being mitigated by 1,001 factors in today’s ESO that simply did not exist in the Glorious Past: multiple CP stars, gear trivially applying debuffs like maim, cheap defensive ults like Light’s Champion, Monster sets like Pirate Skeleton, BattleSpirit, this on top of player resistances and the new way Impenetrable works. So while my heals are getting reduced by these new mechanics, things like Siphoning Strikes, Leeching Vines, etc. – which can also crit!, are not.

Every DK melee DPS + heal has been buffed (Power Lash lasts twice as long, Deep Breath can hit twice as many targets, Burning Embers always heals – for a lot! – when it is reused or ends, even if cleansed (!). During the Glorious Past, I liked my chances engaging in melee on a Magplar Vs. other experienced players with good builds. Now, it’s a prospect I rather avoid if I can.

The short of this is, Magplars are incapable of pursuit or retreat and thus are stuck dancing to their enemy’s tune. They are easily forced into melee combat and must fight back with low damaging skills that are difficult to hit Vs. experienced players. Who out there is streaming a solo open world Magplar? It’s an exercise in frustration.

3. Mobile Opponents reveal issues with CC and lack of synergy between abilities
We are the slowest class. We have the worst CC options in the entire game. Our bread and butter DPS skills can’t hit mobile opponents. These three characteristics do not belong together.

Here is a fight that that shows why so many templars opt to play the conservative “I’ll heal for a group” build rather than something a bit more daring. Granted, this is against what was the most OP spec in the game (stamina Warden with obligatory overtuned heavy armor “beserker” set), but this fight nevertheless illustrates why Templars struggle in the open world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6efLrTjREc

1. Out of 16 Puncturing Sweeps attacks, I hit 3 – three! – times.[/b] My opponent did not even have to dodge roll! No hits = no incoming healing = no pressure on opponent = you’re dead. The fight was lost right there. Am I supposed to Reflective Light spam people to death?
2. To Javelin or not to Javelin? I could have slotted Javelin and – maybe – stunned him, assuming he didn’t dodge, block, or reflect it (something the other classes need not worry about). OK, then what? He gets knocked out of range of my sweeps and I have to move my slow character to him. And using Javelin means Eclipse won’t function. There is no synergy between Javelin, Eclipse, and Sweeps. So, I don’t use Javelin.
3. The Toppling Conundrum. Instead I use Toppling Charge as my stun, which does have a synergy with Sweeps. Except it got me killed in this fight. Twice I had to back my character up because of the minimum range requirement and twice I got Dizzying Swinged. How would DKs like it if we put a minimum range on Fossilize? I’m guessing they wouldn’t. Welcome to the world of Templars.
4. Skills at cross purposes. There was that time I did get off a Toppling Charge. And it did nothing because the skill is terrible and my opponent had CC immunity even though he was never CCed (I used Eclipse previously). Is there any other class in the game that has to worry about their abilities because they used something else? I also play a sorcerer and it’s pretty simple. Curse, Frags, Fury, Mines, Streak – all of these skills function normally against my opponent no matter which order I use them. In fact, there is actually some synergy between them

If the opponent is mobile, templars are at too much of a disadvantage because they aren’t, their options for impeding the movement of those opponents are nil, and the skill they rely on for damage and heals can’t connect. I don’t want to hear any more about how things will “go bad” for people who enter my house. I want to hear how my skills will actually hit trespassers and worked synergistically.

4. Skills with cast times. Yep, still.
I know the recent Dragon Bones DLC tried to make these easier to use. However, the PvP community has misled ZoS. I didn’t use these skills not because I was afraid of being interrupted. I didn’t use them because most of them just aren’t very good.

If Dark Flare is such an awesome “nuke“ skill, why does no PvE DPS use it? What do I do if a boss mechanic requires me to do something while I am channeling (have you fought St Olms)?

I tried using Solar Barrage in DSA and that lasted a single round because there were too many times I had to dodge, block, and switch targets that I got tired of cancelling this skill. And even when I didn’t have to do any of that, cast-times still disrupt weaving/rotations and the buff the skill provides, empower, is of little use to Templars.

And then there is Healing Ritual…

There are quite a few reasons cast-times are not desirable.

Spoiler

Cast-times carry the chance of interruption by players and, what nobody ever mentions, disruption by PvE bosses/mobs, such that they have to be *really* strong to be used in a competitive environment. And even then, cast-times are a pretty dubious concept because in 2018, weaving is absolutely crucial to playing ESO and skills with cast-times mess up fluid rotations. And as a healer, I have sworn off cast times because it never fails that someone will need immediate heal at the moment I’m using a skill with a cast-time. The concept is a classic case of nice idea, didn’t work out.

Note: Channels are not quite the same. While also a mechanic I’m not fond of, at least these have advantages over normal skills (hit dodge rollers) and they do provide an immediate positive effect so the user is at least guaranteed to accomplish something beneficial and thus a more attractive option

5. The Fun Factor. Templars aren’t nearly as much as before.
It drives me freaking NUTS that every 8 seconds I have to cast Channeled Focus, a skill that has zero active function. This isn’t even in Cyrodiil; it’s in Maelstrom Arena, PVE content!

It is a super frustrating that my class ultimates are so ill-suited for someone who doesn’t want to play a healer-support role that they don’t even merit consideration.

It used to be that Repentance was a really neat skill that rewarded success by infusing allies with a nice heal and a welcome boost of stamina. It was, in short, an excellently designed support skill. Now? Templars in the same group fight over who gets to use this ability because it has become a selfish skill. This is a terrible mechanic. Allies should not be fighting over who gets to use what, period.

I slotted Spear Shards one day in Cyrodiil because I was feeling nostalgic. Wow, what a disappointment.

Etc., etc., etc.

The short of it is Templars cannot play the way they were originally designed because the game now punishes “stand your ground” builds with unavoidable death in PVE and inevitable death in PvP. Templar PVE DPS is a hopeless cause. They take melee spots and get creamed by stamina specs. It’s not like in PvP that DPS is any better. So as a magplar, your melee opponents are going to have higher damage and actual mobility options, which should clear up any mysteries why nobody is out there making money streaming open world solo magplars.

Returning Templars to Glory, or at least making them once again fun to play.

So the solution is easy? Revert all the nerfs!!!

Except ZoS can’t do that. Because the other classes all got nerfed too. So that makes things complicated.

Spoiler

Nerfs create more problems than they solve. And worse, they persist long after the (well-meaninged but incorrect) reasoning for said nerfs become obsolete and outdated. DK standard was nerfed multiple times because the magicka DK was supposedly doing too much damage. Now the DK does not do enough damage and has terrible resource management, yet the nerfs remain. Stop the nerfs. Nerfs are the proverbial dog that keeps chasing its tail.

So here’s a list of suggestions. I try ans indicate where I think my ideas will alter class balance (and thus would necessitate corresponding improvements instead of nerfs to other classes).

Putting the Templar House up for sale.
A player cannot remain stationary and play any content released after Imperial City. It doesn’t work. It gets them killed. So the concept has to go.

The idea that fighting a Templar in close-quarters concept is “going to be bad for you” can work, but this does not have to entail standing in a single spot. If Templars are to be slow, it doesn’t work unless the numerous predators in Cyrodiil at least have to worry about chasing them.

• Rune Focus Buff needs to stay active for full duration. Also, this skill has got to be the most boring ability in the game. It has zero active effects.
• Sun Shield: Skill is dead since removal of soft caps. Sun Shield is not useful unless you run around with 60K health.
  Templars are the only class without (a competitive) means to prevent incoming damage. We used to have three ways to do this (Eclipse, Blinding Flashes, decent scaling Sun Shield). A lot of people are going to suggest making Sun Shield scale off magicka.
  
  No! Boring, generic, Harness magicka already does that, and the last thing the game needs is another damage shield. Two ideas to throw out there: Since Empowering Sweeps is not a worthy ultimate, merge a (toned-down) Empowering Sweeps with Sun Shield’s deterrent to melee attacks (it would be functionally similar to Blade Cloak). Or, reform the old Blinding Flashes skill such that Eric Wrobel “likes” it because we melee builds would like a way to put things off balance, which is what Blinding Flashes used to do. The original design of the class was correct. Fast opponents who chase and attack slow templars should eat damage and debuffs. We need this back.
• The Healing class with no good HoTs. Purifying Ritual is small goes off every 2 seconds. Sweeps requires hitting a target and is overnerfed. Purifying Light is decent but requires melee range Vs. a specific target and goes off every 2 seconds. Our opponents have heals that do not have such restrictions, many of which go off every second. Either give us back our good healing passives that were nerfed or give us a competitive HoT (I’m looking at you Healing Ritual)

Do my changes here disrupt balance? Not terribly. Rune Focus change is one of convenience, not power. One of my Sun Shield changes is based on ZoS own formula for melee PvE DPS (i.e. Blade Cloak). The only thing that’s a buff here is giving a Templar HoTs, but HoTs are necessary to melee. Assuming the other classes are actually improved next update, these changes will not be an issue.

*********************

Making Templars competitive melee DPS.
Unless you want Templars to be just healer-support in competitive PvE and PvP, then this needs to happen. Templar skills suggest high melee AoE, that should be why they are wanted by competitive raid leaders. So let’s make that happen.

• Burning Light (passive) – Huge flaw, it’s cooldown is global, which means it really hurts Templar AoE DPS. Cooldown should be per target, an easy change as it will not affect 1v1 balance.
• Balanced Warrior (passive) – It just increases weapon damage. That’s not “balanced.” That is a relic from a different incarnation of the game, when weapon damage was not exclusive to stamina players. Come on Zos, expert MAGE increases both spell and weapon [!] damage for Sorcerers! This is an obvious and easy reform.
• Solar Barrage: Cast-time ruins it. The Empower bonus is very hard to synergize. The idea behind this skill is solid: please remove the cast-time and provide a buff that is harmonious with Templar gameplay.
• Puncturing Sweeps This ability is the key to both the DPS problem and the House issue. Enemies easily avoid this by simply moving. It’s not a good melee spammable, the heals are now uncompetitive, and right now it looks like there is a borderline game-breaking bug plaguing this skill.
  
  Seriously, this is a HUGE potential problem and having it hang over us with no official comment by Zos is just bad. When I see my combat log showing this:
  
  I am convinced this has to be bugged. I’ve been doing Magplar forever and know what’s typical Sweeps damage and 700 something is not it.
  
• An ultimate worth using: Let’s stop pretending Empowering Sweeps is a “tank” ultimate. Tanks use Warhorn. If someone really wants survival, they are going to use Sword and Shield ultimate or Resto Staff ultimate (both of which also offensive). The idea behind Empowering Sweeps is fine, it’s just too wimpy to be an ultimate and a (toned-down) version should be merged with Sun Shield.
  What should replace this is a pure DPS ultimate. The benchmark is pretty low: make it so a magicka character wouldn’t rather slot the stamina Dawnbreaker of Smiting.

Do my changes effect balance? Yes, but in the correct direction. Templars need a buff here, end of story. Yes I know Sorcs also need better Crystal Frags and Warden Dive needs to do something, now please make your own threads and I’ll hit the insightful button.

*********************

Making Templars fun to play

This is a list of skills/abilities that used to be a lot more fun to use. They were either over-nerfed, are pretty much obsolete considering how the game has changed, or just aren’t very effective.

Focused Charge: The worst gap closer in the game. And it got nerfed.
While I will say it doesn’t bug as often (nice job here), it’s still too sloooooooooooooooooooooooow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyNG4xQhxYM
That was way back in Dark Brotherhood update. Now it’s even slower.

The skill also suffers because it was meant to counter cast-times. Since hardly anyone uses them, I go entire weeks without ever interrupting people and setting them off-balance, which is supposed to be the big appeal for using this skill. Morphs are uninspiring: Focused Charge is easy to avoid and does nothing to CC immune enemies. Explosive Charge does nothing to allow a follow up attack with Sweeps.

@Cinbri has an excellent suggestion:
“I also believe it would be fair and lore-wise to reduce minimal range of our gap-closer - Charge. All class charges united by fact that their minimal range is equal to zero. At least making ours for 2.5 instead of 3.5 would make it a much more reliable, as interrupt aoe or as CC, those that templar really need.
Also our charge is unique coz caster jumping on enemy with its spear, not just charging toward, but still we can't do this in melee coz 3.5 is too big range:
”

This would definitely help. However, skill needs more its damage is too low, the skill’s primary benefit of “off balance” is 99% not applicable, and the morph choices make us choose between two things templars both need to pursue slippery foes. This skill needs to do more to help magplars who want to play aggressively; it’s just a weak damage skill at the moment and too often the Charge/Sweeps combo is pathetic and does nothing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9phL-Auqu1k

Radiant Aura : When this skill was reformed, I thought I’d like it more. However, it has not proven popular. Healers have very few free slots and I’m not going to use Radiant Aura because it is actually inefficient (skill costs 3440 magicka to cast, I need 11 consecutive ticks of steal just to recoop the cost, skill only lasts 15 seconds) in place of Elemental Drain because the latter is free, lasts longer, and applies major breech.

As long as its main purpose is magicka steal, even if improved I don’t think it will be used because Elemental Drain is just better.

Since ZoS has released content that has made movement necessary, I think this morph should reflect that change in the game’s direction. Make it a “fighting withdrawal” ability in which players get some movements benefits, some defensive benefits, and some resource relief (perhaps a short boost and maybe reduce cost for things like dodge or CC break).

Repentance: Welcome to the only ability in ESO that causes allies to argue over who gets to use it. That’s just dumb and should never be a part of any social MMO ever. Period.

Spoiler

I understand people might be uncomfortable that Templars are so much better at returning stamina that other classes won’t be invited to end-game Trials. A few things to consider here.

• Either we have classes that makes us distinctive or drop the pretense of classes altogether. Pick one. Because when you try to be “half pregnant” such that we have classes, yet everyone is the same for everything, you only end up with flavorless, over-nerfed, and uninspiring powers to choose from because of the fear that one class might dare overshadow another at something.
• If we want the Mechanically Challenged guild to invite DKs healer for Trial runs, then the means to have that happen is make it such that DK healers provide something to a group that a templar can’t. Nerfing what we play is not necessary to accomplish this goal.
• Why does my Repentance get nerfed so there can be DK healers, but DK Helping Hands + Chains and Warden Bull Netch + Frozen Device remain potent such that those two classes have a monopoly on tanking?
  As I said, either we have classes that make us distinctive and thus can do things you class can’t or we don’t.

Healing Ritual: Healing Springs gives more healing, can be block-casted, can’t be interrupted, procs every healing set in the game, has a 28 meter range, starts healing immediately, and, most importantly is preventative. It does everything Healing Ritual does and better.

Spoiler

I know Healing Ritual is a full-strength Breath of Life that hits 6 people. Your timing has to be 1000% perfect because if you cast this 0.95 seconds instead of 1 second before incoming damage, you’ll kill your group. Healing Springs avoids this entirely.

Make this a channel. Make this a HoT. Make this buff our group. Make it do something that Healing Springs can’t.

Dark Flare : It may seem to hit hard, but PvEers do *not* use it in their rotations, which means it doesn’t hit hard enough. And it has a cast-time to boot. No thank you. Bring a Warden in you need AoE defile.
Please do something other than make this a Crystal Frag clone.

Spear Shards: Skill’s original design was correct. Why on Tamriel was the CC taken away? Because templars had too many options here??? All this skill is good for now is healer-support retuning resource because its damage is bad compared to comparable like Liquid Lighting (which also has a damage synergy).

Radiant Destruction is not in a good place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYhctNG9FNE

If the skill adequately performs its job in executing low health opponents, PvPers will flood these forums with complaints. That has been proven ever since February 2015 when the skill was introduced and again in February 2016 when the dodge rolling bug was fixed. PvPers are only satisfied when RD is bugged and is terrible.
So, I’d rather have something else. Give me Blinding Flashes back. Give me a decent CC+damage skill other than Javelin. Give me options.

Eclipse is feast or famine. Its effectiveness is dependent on the opponent rather than the Templar.
This spell suffers from a huge flaw in that if your opponent CC breaks it, all you are doing is trading your magicka and a global cooldown for their stamina and a global cooldown, and giving them CC immunity in the process … without actually CCing them. That is not a good exchange. As of right now, 80% of PvPers are not breaking this. When they begin to figure out they can and they should, the value of this skill, especially the Total Dark morph, will decrease by quite a lot.

What I would do is roll the two morphs into one, as the ability used to work. The Total Dark morph heals and has the explosion, that way at least it does something. The Unstable Core morph explodes for the damage it did before the Clockwork City update because there was nothing game breaking about it.

Poor Passives

For the most part, ZoS ignores passives in updates. Except when it comes to Templars. We’re pretty much the only class that you have targeted with some pretty heavy handed nerfs. The only non-Templar passive that has been hit with the nerfhammer is DK’s Battle Roar (Helping Hands is ambiguous as it’s both a buff and a nerf).

What frustrates me the most is that ZoS nerfed the Healing Passives in Templars and did nothing to balance that out by making templars more effective at defending themselves at something other than healing. It was just, “Here’s a nerf, deal with it.” And they are doing it again next patch by removing the healing bonus from Piercing Spear.

Spoiler

Mending: This passive use to increase the critical hit chance up to 15% of Templar heals the lower the health of a target. Now it’s just a flat (boring) up to 12% increase the lower the health. 15% critical chance >>>>> 12% increase
Sacred Ground As for the most nerfed passive in the game, it’s tough to decide between this and DK’s Battle Roar (and these two classes struggle most solo in Open World, not a coincidence). This used to buff my healing down to allies in my “house” by an untyped 30%! And made my Restoring Light spells stronger in that “house.” Then whole stronger spells part was removed. Then the 30% got changed to the generic Major Mending buff, which reduced the bonus healing by 5%, yet that was somehow sold to us as a buff. And then Major Mending was taken away entirely and replaced by another generic buff, “Minor Mending,” which increases healing by a mere 8%. Just terrible.

I've been magplaring since Launch and I look at my combat text pretty much every fight after I die. My typical non-crit Breath of Life used to be about 8K. Now it’s barely 6K. It’s crazy. What exactly does my class do better now than then to counterbalance that? Nothing.
And that’s not even the half of it.



Let’s talk defile, its ridiculously scaling through the CP tree, and how it’s basically impossible for a Templar to fight anyone wearing the Durok’s Bane or any other set that has AoE defile or places it upon receiving damage. I can’t Purify that debuff. I can’t prevent damage because all my skills that did so are gone. Can’t run away + can’t heal through perma-defile = throw computer out the window.

Spoiler

But Joy, these passives were OP and needed a nerf. I mean Templars are still a pain to kill in PvP!
Why is it that our “OP” passives need a nerf and not yours? Magicka Flood, Refreshing Shadows, Accelerated Growth, Power Stone, Energized, Helping Hands, etc., all offer significant bonuses that allow their respective classes to do things that other classes can’t approach. ZoS has taken away my ability to heal, but not your ability to have a large stat pool, a huge influx of resources, your healing, your damage, your ultimate reduction, etc.
Templars are a pain to kill in PvP not because they are templars. But because they are wearing defensive oriented gear, using 1H + shield, are vampires, invest in block, etc., in order to deal with all the nerfs people forced on ZoS so as not to become AP piñatas. Which is pretty sad state of affairs; our class survives not because they are templars, rather via things not on the templars skillset.
All you have accomplished with these nerfs is discourage Templars from using aggressive and thus easier to kill builds. And pretty much ruin templar’s ability to have a chance at trying to open world by themselves.

Restoring Spirit Was restore magicka when activating an ability. Now 4% cost reduction. When this nerf occurred, ZoS promised that they would eventually redo templar in-class resource management. Four years later, the old team that implemented the nerf is gone, the promise forgotten, and Magplars the only class that must spam their armor buff every 8 seconds just to get some semblance of “passive” resource management.

And then there is Light Weaver. This passive is so lackluster, it’s pretty much a waste of skill points to invest in. It extends the duration of a morph hardly any templar uses (Restoring Aura). It grants a conditional 2 ultimate to allies who are healed by a hardly any templar uses (Healing Ritual). It grants an armor bonus to a very situational ultimate (Rite of Passage) that isn’t even used by many templars. Most Templars playing ESO have zero reason to spend points into this ultimate. No other passive in the game is so meaningless (though I will grant Elder Dragon is close). How about make the 2 ultimate granted to allies under 60% health healed by a Restoring Light ability (add a cooldown if you are nice and make Healing Ritual a HoT). There. Now it’s useful for all templars, it’s something to offer to a group that has nothing to do with a DPS parse, and maybe encourage some risk-reward gameplay: templars might want to live dangerous to get some ultimate.

STOP nerfing our passives. I don’t care if they are “bug fixes.” Fine fix the “bug.” But then comprehend the “bug fix” is a net nerf that is further eroding the Templars ability to compete and thus needs some compensation elsewhere.

Five Things Listed above that are most important

1. Legit melee damage, especially Vs. mobile opponents. Sweeps, Solar Barrage, and Focused Charge are all have serious mechanical flaws and two of them are poor damage skills.
   
2. Selling the House for some (competitive) passive defense. This isn’t just something I’d like. It’s something Zos’s own content creators made necessary. Rune Focus, Sun Shield, some sort of HoT are absolutely needed. I don’t need to be fast, but I need snare relief and some sort of repositioning.
   
3. An ultimate that will make people want to play the class and raid leaders invite us to groups. We need a damage ultimate, period. Nova was nice in June 2014, but it is now 99% niche in both PvE and PvP; it needs a huge buff. Only Remembrance, of course the “healer-support” ultimate, gets decent play and even then only for PvP groups.
   
4. Skills need a reboot. Dark Flare, Healing Ritual, Solar Barrage, Sun Shield, and Restoring Aura badly need reform as the game has changed too much to make them much use. Skills like Sweeps, Eclipse, Radiant Destruction, Javelin, and Focused Charge are potentially decent but awkward to use individually and have zero synergy between them.
   
5. Fun, Fun, Fun. Look at the Glorious Past. Look now. Wow. Just wow. That’s not nostalgia. That’s a clear pattern of how the game has changed over the past four years, making the actual characters we play less and less important than the gear we wear and the generic/bland Champion Point percent bonuses we have.

Final Thoughts

I should emphasize that while this post is (very) comprehensive, it's meant more as a guide to how a lot of Templars mechanics no longer match with the direction Elder Scrolls Online has developed. I wouldn't say this is a strict "we need all of this" to compete. Indeed, If we got all of this, Templars would be way too powerful vis-a-vis the other classes. Templars do, however, need some of these things not just for the sake of that elusive "balance," but also many of these mechanics simply don't work in 2018 they were they were envisioned in 2014.

Speaking of that elusive class "balance," I would estimate Templars are pretty much were they have always been, strictly mid-tier. It's not so much that they are weak. Rather, they aren't nearly as interesting to play and their mechanical limitations too heavily impedes their ability to melee DPS or flourish without the protection of a group in open world PvP. I'd love for ZoS to make a number of reforms to make the class so it plays competitively in more than just a healer-support role. Yet, as I noted in the first line of this post, every class needs a similar breakdown.

Morvane

Liked for Troy

DeadlyRecluse

As a profoundly average templar, I approve of pretty much all of this.

The writeup on the dysfunction within the templar CC suite is particularly apt.

The options are a CC that knocks them out of range of your spammable, a CC you can't use reliably when in range of your spammable, and an ability that hands out free immunity to anyone with 3 functioning brain cells. Or vamp drain, I guess.

Own

I'm with you on this. I want to play my StamPlar, but jabs feels so one directional and just terrible. Strifing and jabbing is still terrible, regardless of the increased area. Circle of protection should change to something that allows more mobility. No more major mending means they should be able to move around at least.

I feel very strongly about this class being outdated and clunky

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

WillhelmBlack

tl;dr

Play Magblade instead.

Lynx7386

I admit I have zero experience with stamplar, but magplar doesn't feel overly limited or clunky to me. Sure it could use a few improvements, and I don't think they should have lost major mending, but its certainly not the worse class around.

dodgehopper_ESO

Wow. @Joy_Division there are so many things that I can say. Its a big topic but I agree on a great number of things. This is going to take me a while so I will edit this post to make my comments. Right now though I will start out with my big picture view of what is not quite right about Templar.

Starting out Templar represented predominately a Support class focused on Tankiness and Healing. It did not have the kind of burst elements of classes like Sorcerer or DK. The game environment has changed a lot but essentially I see Templar as having lost its CC tools which is a death knell to top end Tanking. Chain pull is such a vital element of Tanking for a lot of players and this is why I've always been a proponent of ZoS making Silver Leash more of a Stamina based Chain pull. Right now Silver Leash is a 2 step process and only works on undead, which is pathetic considering the Fighters Guild are a warrior caste. I bring up Silver Leash in large part because in general Templar has no cc now. We lost Shards, Eclipse is not an actual CC, and Blinding Flashes was a core part of stopping mobs in their tracks around the Templar (ie: Tank). It was more slushy than abilities like Talons but workable.

There is also a thematic disconnect with the game rules and the class. Mobility has always been a Templar weakness and I'm fine with that. What bothers me is that Templars have the worst sustain of any class (making bone pirate so vital for my Stamplar in an age of low resource recovery on a class with the lowest resource recovery and a Repentance skill that makes me compete with players of my own class for recovery). This low sustain means that being a vampire becomes more attractive. Templars by merit of healing skills can get more bang for the buck out of the healing skills (magic/stam) while simultaneously don't need the health regen as much (and lets face it health regen is a garbage stat as well in the game). Throw in mobility and a decent ultimate and why wouldn't a Templar become a Vampire? Doesn't it seem ironic that the Warrior of the Light is the Class voted most likely to become a Vampire? Its bizarre. Rune Focus has always been a sticking point with me. Everyone cites its low cost to use but no one considers its short duration and the necessity to move in ANY fight. This means reasonably you need to fire it off regularly to get the benefits at a low cost, granted. What is so bad about this skill though is that clicking this skill means your damage/defense skills are not being used. This puts you in the hole defensively. This one problem means that honestly other sources of Sr/PhysRes are superior. The only person who can really get good use out of this skill would be a PvE tank (even that is questionable) and the way the game itself works being a Templar tank is really not the best choice. Dragon Knight has the tools of the trade (Talons/Chains) which make it the most desired. Most dungeons are less important in this regard because a strong (any class) tank can round things up fairly fast without these tools. This doesn't mean these tools aren't valuable.

Power of the Light and Binding Javelin are good skills I'll admit but I do believe the damage output of Javelin seems rather low considering it is literally the only cc the class has and it is a class with no mobility. Binding Javelin also is a situational cc that really isn't that unique considering skills like draining shot/magnum shot and stone fist. This is another issue with the class. The passives conflict with the fact that most Templar skills are better replaced by out of class skills. Templar Passives are a hodgepodge mess and have been this way for as long as I can remember (at least beta). Over the years there have been times when 5-7 passives were nigh worthless. Most classes have more generally useful passives than the Templar that function often with no need to apply active skill clicks (in the case of Templar often very specific skill clicks within the Templar-only tree). I'm not going to overanalyze this but I do not feel this annoyance with any other class. One concern I foresee with the future is that as any new out of class skill lines get released, Templar will creep further and further behind the other classes. Templar will also have the least versatility of any class as this progresses. I would say this is actually already true as most of what makes the Templar unique has been given away to the other classes. One might argue that Cleansing Ritual is unique but it is not: There is Efficient Purge. The snare on the ritual is a joke and should probably pull Nightblades out of stealth, for starters if anyone wanted it to be a really good skill. On the matter of Templar and cleansing there is the issue that the class is one step forward two steps back. What do I mean? Our best defense skill is a high cost purge that can at most purge 5 effects. This sounds OP but one has to recognize that a class like Nightblade can easily crank out much more than that in one second. They will be on offense and we will be on defense which is ALWAYS a losing proposition. The secret to killing a Templar is just wearing him down until he has no mag/stam resources left, which isn't that hard. If you are spamming Ritual over and over you are doing Templar wrong.

Solar Barrage is another very interesting case. It was better before they nerfed it to be a strange Channel THEN sluggish DoT. This skill also makes no sense. I'm going to cast a channel so that I can fight in melee... When is that actually useful? Even NPC's will cc you if you try that. It might only make sense if you prime it by casting from range and charging in... but we have a problem. This skill only lasts 6 seconds so its actual utility is extremely limited. If this skill functioned more like Hurricane it might be more interesting but even then it would have the activation problem. This skill was actually better when it was instant cast and it wasn't even good then. Historically, the reason this skill was bad is that Pulsar was better (again superior out of class skills). Dark flare of course has its place but by making it an easily noticed/telegraphed motion it has always been problematic versus good players in PvP. Telegraphed moves are probably the biggest problem with Templar. The whole class is one big shiny Telegraphed move and this is why so many players on forums love to cry nerf about it. I'm continually shocked to see how many people complain about Templar abilities when almost 90% of my kill recaps say I was imploded or endless furied. The only reason I don't see people complaining about this skill is that its not as VISUALLY noticeable. Radiant Destruction as far as I'm concerned was never as OP as Endlesss + Frags + Implosion but of course its the gigantic bright gold beam that makes a direct line between caster and target. The visual effects are in and of themselves a disadvantage because they are so striking. Dragon Knights have the advantage of at least not overly telegraphing their visually striking moves and a skillset with far superior in and out of class synergy. Going forward with the game I believe the passives are going to be a problem if Spellcrafting releases. Sorcerers and DK's will have the most advantage with Ultimates due to their passives which either reduce Ultimate cost 15% or the resource return for using ultimates that DK gets. Templar cost reduction pales in comparison to what Sorcerer gets and worse still Sorcerer passive regeneration roflstomps the Templar passives. The only thing a Templar has that Sorcerer does not have is Jabs. This is not a cry to nerf Sorcerer but pointing out that the Sorcerer Toolkit is more interesting. In the grand scheme of things the only thing I'd like to see on a Stam Sorc would be a stamina bound weapon attack built in to replace the crappy crystal frags aoe. On Templar the main stam-morph I'd like to see added would be a Stamina Toppling Charge (just like Nightblade gets ambush).

Ultimately, I feel like ZoS says 'play as you want' but with Templar they really mean is you should play as a healer. This might be fine but they've done an awful lot to make other classes good healers.

Elsterchen

@Joy_Division thank you for yet another well written post, I thought about something similar but always ended up ranting.

As a stamplar I don't know much about all the things you noted, but I do agree that this class needs a complete overhaul. Imo if you like throw the "extra" healing out of the window and add some synergy with anything usefull, since each and every class can heal, that "extra" isn't worth anything (i.e. can be done by someone else or teamed up, too).

As for Balanced Warrior (passive) ... as said in the other thread, i wouldn't mind spelldamage added, however i am not sure it currently adds any weapon damage. It surely doesn't show in the character sheet, and i did ask the support to have a look at it. They didn't feel its worth their time, as far as I know.

Speaking for stamplars, I guess we can agree that moving targets are painfull, many potential damage from a stamplar can be avoided by just taking a step left or right now and then, no need for haste -> jabs is a 1.1s channel. In dungeons this is most obvious to me, if tank fails to aggro boss my dps is 5k, if tank holds boss in place its 20-25k ... if tank keeps boss in place AND group buffs a little I even get 40 k (with 60k dmg spikes!).

So, i guess templars have potential in the DD departement, they just don't have the means to utilize it. This is the biggest difference to all other classes (exept maybe wardens, idk): we have a toolset that just doesn't synergize, our skills do not work well with specific gear and our passives are just bandaids.

edit: as for channeled focus / restoring focus (I only used later morph): Fortified brass is far less of a hassle in cyro -> yes, its a trade of damage for tankyness, but when wearing medium you won't get nuts in the process and at least have a change to live and watch your attackers run/streak/cloak/mist away.

Waffennacht

Very very well put

Drdeath20

Just amazing and insightful.

A must read for everybody

Minno

Joy 2020!
I approve everything mentioned.

Also adding that jabs and our heals were mini-executes in the past. Jabs itself gave extra crit chance in low health targets, our heals gave extra crit when we are low health which created a situation where your enemy had to decide to stay offensive or defensive in addition to you having to decide the same. Except created a situation where your healing, in conjunction with your miss chance, have you passive defense to justify standing in jabs longer punishing any enemy that stayed in to DMG you.

We need miss chance back. Granted 50% more chance was too much, but why not reduce it to 20% to match major evasion and code in diminishing returns so that you couldn't stack it with dodge chance? Either way, if we don't get miss chance back, we need major evasion, and off balance outside of stuns to get back the similar benefit our class was designed around since launch (including all changes mentioned above).

Here's some bonus cyro videos with major evasion. (Hint I have to trade a 5pc set just to get a poorly copied buff our class loved back in 2014):
https://youtu.be/9Jcg9CxRGgw
https://youtu.be/MpnKd5QYAsc
https://youtu.be/pwAijhpT5Wo
https://youtu.be/HcB9YptIUq0

Mureel

@Joy_Division Love this post! (Islyn!) Thank you!

Datolite

As someone who has mained a magplar in PvP for a long time, all I can say is that it is an overall underwhelming class unless you are rocking a staff or supporting.

This is a great post and should receive the attention of the devs, if only for a bit of inspiration.

Elsterchen

Minno wrote: »

Joy 2020!
I approve everything mentioned.

Also adding that jabs and our heals were mini-executes in the past. Jabs itself gave extra crit chance in low health targets, our heals gave extra crit when we are low health which created a situation where your enemy had to decide to stay offensive or defensive in addition to you having to decide the same. Except created a situation where your healing, in conjunction with your miss chance, have you passive defense to justify standing in jabs longer punishing any enemy that stayed in to DMG you.

We need miss chance back. Granted 50% more chance was too much, but why not reduce it to 20% to match major evasion and code in diminishing returns so that you couldn't stack it with dodge chance? Either way, if we don't get miss chance back, we need major evasion, and off balance outside of stuns to get back the similar benefit our class was designed around since launch (including all changes mentioned above).

...

That would be the dagger in my stamplars heart. I didn't think you hate me so much @Minno .

edit: If you want miss dodge chance try wearing 5 pieces medium. Least assured you will notice its not as comfy as advertised.

ak_pvp

Yep. Templar is in a poor state. I don't think a templar has actually killed me themselves, just a healbot with a few ticks of eclipse, backlash and beam. What I would do:

• Faster+closer gapclose
• Better burning light/other general buff passives.
• Ritual being 30/60% of effects removed so it scales better. And whilst inside the ritual you gain 2s immunity to whatever you have purged. It allows some small snare removal, but keeps a house theme.
• Blinding flashes should return on, but on the size morph of sun shield. The damage morph needs a rebuff and a cost reduction. Zergbads complained about dying to a specifically anti zerg build.
• A HoT. Maybe the solar barrage can be extended to 10s and heal for everyone it hits. And as an antithesis to flare it can give mending? (Not really needed if defiles get nerfed though.)
• Just return the stun on blazing, javelin goes against the whole point.

Granted, I still disagree with a few things, the house, if they actually repair the damn thing, is a good idea. Beam, its quite balanced in my eyes. Spam it at 75% trying to get a kill, its weak, use it just before POTL goes off, it works well. And templars are just shy of the least mobile class due to purge. DK still does it better because of foss/talons, though the latter has fallen from grace hard, jabbing whilst moving is hard.

Cinbri

Too many things to comment about. And it is sad
1. Shards - I miss Morrowind pts Luminous Shards so much. Idk if it was changed from self-restore to what it now coz exploit I showed, but self-restore mechanic was so awesome.
2. Piercing Spear passive - old mechanic was better coz increase overall crit meant boost to both damage and heals. Now it only work if crit(that is not sunnergyize with heavy armor builds) is proced and as we know will be nerfed to no longer affect heals.
3. Balanced Warrior - as was mentioned its relic of past when stamina wasn't differentiated from magicka. Simply outdated. Note however that Illuminati passive don't benefit for stampalrs and in this case BW repay it. In the end equal amount of spd/wpd but being passive wpd for BW rise problem of Burning Light that scale by default of stamina.
4. Light Weaver/Master Ritualist - seriously, if you wana res - use CP or gear for it, instead of taking away entire passive frm Templars who not obsessed to be resbot. Easy way is to take mechanics from Light Weaver and implement into Ritualist.
5. Burning Light - blockable, which it contradict new zos skill concept. While Implosion is unblockable.
6. Spear Wall - why is it take skill slotted while same passive Iron Skin from dk is independent to skills?
7. Blinding Flashes - I miss this skill so much. Now we could get Radiant Ward to apply hp shield on you and set enemies around off-balance, i.e. imitation of old flashes. With new off-balance+heavy attack combination, it might become super strong defensive skill.
8. Repentance/Aura - Aura was strong after change..till they nerfed manasteal debuff without adjusting skill cost - making it weak, especially on no-cp because of how easy it can be countered. In meanwhile wardens got Leeching Vines - that heal a lot and apply uncleansable healthsteal debuff. Making it In same kind of skill as Vines, that cant be so easily countered and have affect to be active only if caster participate in battle would be nice.
9. Focus - skills and passives of other classes constantly overhauling for current "mobile" fights. Mobility nowdays overperform any kind of tankability. But Templars stucked in the past seems. Anyone remember old Dark Deal where you was rooted to ground while channeling it.
10. Ultimates - already many words were said about it - worst in-game ultimates. Only reason why people defend them and synergies of them is coz we had them for years and people forced to adapt to this garbage and find way to have at least some usage in both pve and pvp.
11. Healing Ritual when Wardens have Corrupted Field, that was buffed, is just laughable. Huge major defile not for 1 sec so you could at least counter it by movement but for 4sec, is death sentence. Only vulnerability of skill was its high cost - patches later it was buffed by reduce cost...
12. Radiant Destruction - well I stoped using this skill after Backlash buff. Good luck to use it in outnumbered fight. And only thing things it got - chains of nerfs.

Tl;DR:1. outdated passives; 2. "house" skills concept; 3. worst ultimates is Templar bane.

danno8

I agree with everything.

ZoS needs to do better. Period.

They can. They did it with Purifying/Power of the Light, but so many times they try to redo Templar skills to make them useful it is like they enter into the prospect only half heartedly.

Look at Solar Barrage. So close to being useful skill but they insisted on keeping the cast time.

Look at fixing Sweeps. They tried, but failed and broke it for PvP.

Eclipse. No skill has been revamped more times that Eclipse, but ZoS insists on keeping the skill tied to the CC mechanic. It's so close to being a bread and butter skill I can taste it, but the break free option has to go.

Radiant Aura. Again, so close to being useful, but the cost is way to high. "Oh it's good for trash groups of mobs since it hits all of them!" Who has sustain issues with trash mobs? Elemental Drain much, much better for when it matters.

Healing Ritual. 4 years on and STILL insisting on keeping that stupid cast time. It doesn't work guys, give it up!!! And as you showed Healing Springs is better in every way!

Bah! I could go on, but you nailed it @Joy_Division .

Minno

Elsterchen wrote: »

show previous quotes

Minno wrote: »

Joy 2020!
I approve everything mentioned.

Also adding that jabs and our heals were mini-executes in the past. Jabs itself gave extra crit chance in low health targets, our heals gave extra crit when we are low health which created a situation where your enemy had to decide to stay offensive or defensive in addition to you having to decide the same. Except created a situation where your healing, in conjunction with your miss chance, have you passive defense to justify standing in jabs longer punishing any enemy that stayed in to DMG you.

We need miss chance back. Granted 50% more chance was too much, but why not reduce it to 20% to match major evasion and code in diminishing returns so that you couldn't stack it with dodge chance? Either way, if we don't get miss chance back, we need major evasion, and off balance outside of stuns to get back the similar benefit our class was designed around since launch (including all changes mentioned above).

...

That would be the dagger in my stamplars heart. I didn't think you hate me so much @Minno .

edit: If you want miss dodge chance try wearing 5 pieces medium. Least assured you will notice its not as comfy as advertised.

Spectre eye is better for magplar (no cost dodge chance with physical resist, health and mag bonuses.)

But you used to be able to use miss chance and miss chance. You could cause 50% chance to miss, and then 20% of those remaining attacks could be dodged (or 70% chance a direct Attack could not register entirely). It made it frustrating in cyro back then lol.

caeliusstarbreaker

Would love blinding flashes back, nb has mirage, no reason we can’t have something similar, and potentially a stamina based heal so we aren’t pigeon holed into direct 2h if we didn’t want.. no clue why warden has one and we don’t.

If we are going to be locked to our circles, give us major mending back.. as it stands my Stam dk does 600 more heal per tick of vigor because of mending and 12% increase in healing from passive. Or allow us to carry our buffs with us.

I’m only cool with balanced warrior giving a flat damage bonus to weapon and spell damage if dawns wrath passive gives stam minor brutality as well.

Eclipse is worthless, dream up something new.

Make repentance restore ally stamina again, it’s already a set value based on character level now, so no need for the double nerf.

I’d use crescent... if it had a cc accompanied with it. Every other class has a dmg ulti that has an accompanied cc. Make crescent scale off highest stat again and deal appropriate damage type.

Honestly, I told everyone it would be bad to get rid of the cc at the end of jabs and everyone was all “blah blah free cc immunity.” Can I have it back now? The snare at the end of a channel you can walk out of is fruitless and I would much rather have my little “insignificant” stun that went through block or stopped at least one aggressor for a second round of jabs, since I have to leave myself open to even cast the ability. That last jab cc was a huge boon in opening up enemy defenses just for a second to apply more channeled dmg. And since javelin sucks as a cc... being dodgeable, blackable, and reflectable.... I would gladly have it reverted. And seriously you can make the jabs/sweep dmg modifier 170% again.

Elsterchen

Minno wrote: »

show previous quotes

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Joy 2020!
I approve everything mentioned.

Also adding that jabs and our heals were mini-executes in the past. Jabs itself gave extra crit chance in low health targets, our heals gave extra crit when we are low health which created a situation where your enemy had to decide to stay offensive or defensive in addition to you having to decide the same. Except created a situation where your healing, in conjunction with your miss chance, have you passive defense to justify standing in jabs longer punishing any enemy that stayed in to DMG you.

We need miss chance back. Granted 50% more chance was too much, but why not reduce it to 20% to match major evasion and code in diminishing returns so that you couldn't stack it with dodge chance? Either way, if we don't get miss chance back, we need major evasion, and off balance outside of stuns to get back the similar benefit our class was designed around since launch (including all changes mentioned above).

...

That would be the dagger in my stamplars heart. I didn't think you hate me so much @Minno .

edit: If you want miss dodge chance try wearing 5 pieces medium. Least assured you will notice its not as comfy as advertised.

Spectre eye is better for magplar (no cost dodge chance with physical resist, health and mag bonuses.)

But you used to be able to use miss chance and miss chance. You could cause 50% chance to miss, and then 20% of those remaining attacks could be dodged (or 70% chance a direct Attack could not register entirely). It made it frustrating in cyro back then lol.

No, thats not the way I meant it, if shuffle/elude and miss chance do not "stack"/"synergize" there is no reason to run medium as stamplar (damage bonus is neglegtable (one can get that by other means) and movement bonus is (in any case) wasted on a templar).

On the other hand a 20% miss chance is to strong for a shielded dresswearer as well as for a tanky tinman... soooo, either way: my leatherloving stamplar would be trash.

Minno

Elsterchen wrote: »

show previous quotes

Minno wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Joy 2020!
I approve everything mentioned.

Also adding that jabs and our heals were mini-executes in the past. Jabs itself gave extra crit chance in low health targets, our heals gave extra crit when we are low health which created a situation where your enemy had to decide to stay offensive or defensive in addition to you having to decide the same. Except created a situation where your healing, in conjunction with your miss chance, have you passive defense to justify standing in jabs longer punishing any enemy that stayed in to DMG you.

We need miss chance back. Granted 50% more chance was too much, but why not reduce it to 20% to match major evasion and code in diminishing returns so that you couldn't stack it with dodge chance? Either way, if we don't get miss chance back, we need major evasion, and off balance outside of stuns to get back the similar benefit our class was designed around since launch (including all changes mentioned above).

...

That would be the dagger in my stamplars heart. I didn't think you hate me so much @Minno .

edit: If you want miss dodge chance try wearing 5 pieces medium. Least assured you will notice its not as comfy as advertised.

Spectre eye is better for magplar (no cost dodge chance with physical resist, health and mag bonuses.)

But you used to be able to use miss chance and miss chance. You could cause 50% chance to miss, and then 20% of those remaining attacks could be dodged (or 70% chance a direct Attack could not register entirely). It made it frustrating in cyro back then lol.

No, thats not the way I meant it, if shuffle/elude and miss chance do not "stack"/"synergize" there is no reason to run medium as stamplar (damage bonus is neglegtable (one can get that by other means) and movement bonus is (in any case) wasted on a templar).

On the other hand a 20% miss chance is to strong for a shielded dresswearer as well as for a tanky tinman... soooo, either way: my leatherloving stamplar would be trash.

Oh I see! But still 15% dodge chance is huge to receive. It might not protect you like say minor maim/major protection, but you'll have the chance to completely ignore lots of direct attacks (cc attempts, poisons, and light attacks).

I think 15% dodge chance, a minor armor buff, off balance AOE proc, snare immunity, and AOE cc/defense would work wonders for the class to mimic miss chance (in addition to Joy's comments above).

Stamplar could love the miss chance (heavy armor to get extra heals when crit DMG changes), minor armor benefits both, snare immunity helps Templars become mobile, and off balance gives both templar much needed damage.

AOE Defense/cc for tanking is open to debate. We haven't found a good replacement for miss chance mechanically for tank roles.

Ashamray

I even went to make a coffee because this work deserved an attention. Thank you.
New chapter is coming (some day it will) and we need old problems to be solved. We need.

Drdeath20

Templars weaknesses

Mobility

Ultimates

Damage- burst and dps

Sustain

Healing-if im getting bursted down around other players, honor of the dead doesnt gurantee that it will heal me over my teamates. At least combat prayer gurantees me a heal, grants me minor resolve, minor ward and minor beserk.

Crowd control

-STRENGTHS-

........

Didgerion

All magica builds struggle in PVP.

Looks like stamina builds have got an edge on everything - burst, mitigation, mobility and cc immunity.

Cinbri

The funny thing is that it just so easy to fix Templars - we don't need any super imba buffs, but mostly fix TONS of bugs, and update passives/skills/ults to concept of modern pvp, instead of trying balance around old concept that don't work anymore.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I am 99% sure I agree, but man, that one is long even for you.

I'll be back in an hour.

FrancisCrawford

Templars are superior to other classes at being a "battery" because Shards restore more resources than Orbs.
Templars (along with sorcerers) have the most convenient burst heal for healing emergencies.
Those two advantages make templar the best class for group healing.
Reflective Light is somewhat better than Force Pulse as a spammable.
Power of the Light also fits nicely into a healing rotation.
So templar is the top choice for group healing.

Templars also compete with sorcerers for being the easiest class for newbies to level. (I think they're even ahead of sorcerers.)

And those are all the contexts I can think of in which I would recommend playing a templar.

tinythinker

I may edit/expand on this later as after I a couple of suggestion sections I had to revert to superfast skimming. Not enough time for careful consideration at the moment, so these initial brief thoughts aren't meant to be seen as alternatives to or implying criticism of what was posted above, and may in fact be similar, parallel, or identical:

1. Thanks for including me in the tags or I would have missed this. I'm on an extended break from ESO and haven't used my Magplar since a little before Morrowind dropped.

2. I was going to suggest putting Blinding Light back, but as part of a passive. My version is basically a bit of RNG similar to Burning Light. Instead extra damage procs you'd get a chance to blind the opponent or something like that to give enemies a miss chance or give the caster a dodge chance. Along the same lines the Piercing Spear passive could have a chance to proc something like the force buff for increases crit chance in addition to its flat crit damage buff. So you get bursts of much higher dps.

3. Have Sun Shield give a debuff of some kind to targets in range of it's explosion. Something to make it worth keeping up for all builds. Could take the Blinding Light idea and instead just add it to that morph for miss/dodge chance. I mean an explosion of sunlight might blind people and/or put them off balance, yeah?

4. Boost Radial Sweep with debuffs: a heavy snare, or minor fracture+breach, or reduced regen of some resource. Step into the house, get whacked.

5. Give Healing Ritual a revamp and treat the player like they are a healing/protection totem. Base ability and buffed morph have the player dosing out HoTs over long range continuously unless the caster moves. The other morph provided lots of protection buffs but only if allied players run into the range of the caster. Cast times are instant but the caster is immobilized. The latter morph could be good for tanks as well as healers when players need to stack. .

Or, have this spell transport up to X number of players under 35% health to the healer and restore a little health. Comes with a small cast time/reduced movement speed while casting. One morph with instant cast but a smaller range, other morph with a larger range.

Could also do both versions (I would prefer the healing totem from the first version and the fast emergency transport from the second) since there are two morphs. This is partly for having better uses than the current version and also pumping up the fun of the unique class fantasy.

Not comprehensive (I've done too many of those for Templar: here for the most recent and there for another one to give two examples).

Just a few quick things off of the top of my head inspired by the first half or so of the original post.

EDIT:

6. Leave everything about Unstable Core as it is now but have the explosion go off instantly if the target (NPC or PC) activates a gap closer, stunning them for two seconds.

7. Give Radiant Aura a burst of something (initial big chunk of recovery, some heals, or a boost to healing effectiveness, maybe a bit of speed, whatever) when cast with a cool burst animation.

8. Give Blazing Spear its stun back, even with half the old damage, and revert what was done to Repentance even if they have it give something as a resource from corpse instead of stamina like ult.

Again, not comprehensive, just some avenues to consider.

ofSunhold

Well-said, as usual.

Just in case anybody at ZOS is listening, just for emphasis:

"Drop the entire pretense of a slow class with no means of pursuing or disengaging from enemies." It sucks. Scrap it.

And so much this: "Templars are a pain to kill in PvP not because they are templars. But because they are wearing defensive oriented gear, using 1H + shield, are vampires, invest in block, etc., in order to deal with all the nerfs people forced on ZoS so as not to become AP piñatas. Which is pretty sad state of affairs; our class survives not because they are templars, rather via things not on the templars skillset.

"All you have accomplished with these nerfs is discourage Templars from using aggressive and thus easier to kill builds. And pretty much ruin templar’s ability to have a chance at trying to open world by themselves."

I don't like the defensive meta. It's killing the fun. It necessitates extremes like the current extremely powerful defile, or really boring near-endless battles of attrition that are usually won and lost by gear sets. Magplar has been shoved the hardest into this meta, and unless we happen to enjoy being a group's healbattery, our options in PVP suck.

And now I'll stop, this whole topic is just so frustrating.

Kingslayer513

Thanks for the very informative post, Joy_Division. I feel like ZOS needs to sit down with you and beg you to help them fix the mess they created out of Templars.

Admittedly I'm newer to the realm of Templar dps and I wasn't around for the "glory days" of Templars, but I do think that it's very telling that even someone new to Templar dps like me can immediately recognize the massive flaws in the class. For instance, puncturing sweeps is okay in PVE when you have a tank grouping and CCing enemies who don't break free. However, the moment I walk my Templar into PVP I think "this skill is completely broken". It just doesn't hit anyone unless they're standing still or it's the entire zerg in your field of view. Why oh why doesn't it just hit where you are looking? It's pretty frustrating to know that this skill used to work AND had additional functionality AND more damage.

I like your comments about the Templar House and I didn't know this was the direction ZOS was heading in the past. Building a house is nothing but a joke in PVE as a dps. In PVE, mobility and situational awareness is key. Standing still in any difficult PVE content means a zero dps dead Templar. I think it's time for the "Templar House" to become a mobile home

But seriously, thanks for the great post. Let's hope that ZOS takes some of this advice to heart.

Drdeath20

@Joy_Division for you class representative of magplar