Templars need reform because the game has changed

Checkmath

Hasty prayer, solar barrage, toppling charge, javelin, repentance and sun shield all are skill, who could need adjustements.
Hasty prayer as magicka vigor, yeah why not? Or how about the cast is instant, but the healing moves away from the caster in a circle, resulting in an instant heal for close friends and a delayed one for more distant friends. But that would be maybe a bit too strong. For solar barrage i just stated my ideas above. I like the idea to convert one of the charges into stamina, but i think this would make it pretty redundant with crit rush. Maybe explosive charge could do aoe damage and sets enemies offbalance (as stamina or magicka skill). Also the minimum range should be taken out from it. Javelin has a stamina and magicka morph, both with a knockback. Some people want to have changed this into a root. Sure is nice idea since binding javelin sounds like a root. Then the root needs qlso to work, when it gets blocked. But in the end its an underwhelming cc compared to others, maybe a total rework needs to be done.
Repentance and the other morph are pretty trash nowadays. To make repentance good again, we need to make sure that corpses can be drained several times by different templars. Maybe its enough if only stamina can be restored for several templars, but only once the healing part works. This can work by making it restore stamina to all templars, who have slotted the ability, when used once. Otherwise the skill needs to be changed to two parts: the healing part, which can be used once, meaning a debuff on enemies, which is lifted, when used and a constand debuff on corpses, which allows several templars to drain the stamina. For the magicka morph...its pretty useless...should be reworked to some groupbuff probably. Maybe some minor evasion for nearby allies? Or probably something similar like nbs mark for allies. The skill could affect allies for 20seconds. In that time, allies restore magicka or stamina when they kill an enemy

Cinbri

Would be nice if Javelin would be as strong as it is in Legends, where it super strong, to say least.

It serve the role of execute there or some kind of unblockable/undodgeable attack.

technohic

Cinbri wrote: »

Would be nice if Javelin would be as strong as it is in Legends, where it super strong, to say least.

It serve the role of execute there or some kind of unblockable/undodgeable attack.

Would add more flavor than RD as an execute.

Seraphayel

Many here are still referring to Eclipse reflecting projectiles but it doesn't? It just proccs of direct damage the enemy does. Or did I miss something?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Seraphayel wrote: »

Many here are still referring to Eclipse reflecting projectiles but it doesn't? It just proccs of direct damage the enemy does. Or did I miss something?

This is the way it works now but it didn't always work like that and the npc guards use the original version.

Checkmath

Eclypse procs on pretty much every damage, first tick or damage of dots, direct damage abilities and on some cast time abilities like soul assault eclypse procs every second.
Nice image @Cinbri

Seraphayel

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Many here are still referring to Eclipse reflecting projectiles but it doesn't? It just proccs of direct damage the enemy does. Or did I miss something?

This is the way it works now but it didn't always work like that and the npc guards use the original version.

Yeah I know that it's been like that before (you could easily kill world bosses back then that were using projectiles) but I read some posts where it was said that it is so strong in PvP where it reflects projectiles although it doesn't do that anymore.

TheNightflame

@Checkmath your idea for a growing heal (kinda like thorvokun's poison) but you only get the heal once per cast when you hit the growing ring of healing, is really cool/unique. I've never thought of something like that but it would be very fun to use, at the very least casually.

Checkmath

Haha thank you, i just was a bit creative there ^^

Tetrafy

Sucks when classes get nerfed into squirtgun battles. The skillgap gets lowered and the game becomes not fun anymore. Ive seen if with Destiny 2 and tons of other games. Devs look for balance but nerfing everything makes it balanced but boring. You need to find middle ground.

WreckfulAbandon

Leave my 6% weapon dmg passive alone, nothing gets replaced unless it's an overwhelming and unanimous buff. We're talking about fixes and additions here, and we shouldn't have to give anything up for them. We've lost enough as is (functional jabs, major mending, blind, do I need to continue?) and been neglected for most of the life of this game.

Jabs hits ppl way harder in no-CP, that discrepancy needs to be resolved. And by resolved I mean buff or fix. I'm not advocating for nerfs to other classes rn but if this is the new norm for jabs I will hop on the nerf incap train so fast lol

technohic

I’m starting to get a bit anxious to see what balance is in store. Been screwing around taking my Stamplar back magicka again but playing it a bit like a Stamplar still. Either way; the way CP defense double dipping is affecting jabs and sweeps taking a lot of the sting out so I figure I might as well just have fun wit it.

Went now/ 1h shield on the magplar to keep major expedition from roll, and have a good stun and defile on 1h shield. Debated 2h in stead of shield to keep momentum but I wanted to stay a bit tanky with riposte and keep bloodspawn

Seraphayel

I have high hopes for tomorrows news but I fear that we all will get sorely disappointed and there won't be substantial changes for classes...

Minno

Seraphayel wrote: »

I have high hopes for tomorrows news but I fear that we all will get sorely disappointed and there won't be substantial changes for classes...

I don't expect much for tomorrow, aside from a general SI news update.

We probably wouldnt see much info into classes until PTS is ready to drop (didnt Gina say this was next week?)

Seraphayel

Minno wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I have high hopes for tomorrows news but I fear that we all will get sorely disappointed and there won't be substantial changes for classes...

I don't expect much for tomorrow, aside from a general SI news update.

We probably wouldnt see much info into classes until PTS is ready to drop (didnt Gina say this was next week?)

Well I think we will get most information tomorrow either by ZOS talking about upcoming changes or the streamers that visited them. Won't be as detailed as the PTS notes for sure but I think the most important things we'll get to know tomorrow.

Minno

Seraphayel wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I have high hopes for tomorrows news but I fear that we all will get sorely disappointed and there won't be substantial changes for classes...

I don't expect much for tomorrow, aside from a general SI news update.

We probably wouldnt see much info into classes until PTS is ready to drop (didnt Gina say this was next week?)

Well I think we will get most information tomorrow either by ZOS talking about upcoming changes or the streamers that visited them. Won't be as detailed as the PTS notes for sure but I think the most important things we'll get to know tomorrow.

That does make sense! Either way, I hope we get to see more info on jewel traits, BG maps, and the new skilline.

LordSlif

i just wanna know why teleport strike is the only gap close without minimum distance 3.5

Cinbri

LordSlif wrote: »

i just wanna know why teleport strike is the only gap close without minimum distance 3.5

Fiery Grip also don't have minimal range, making it strongest gap-closer in-game. From class charges only Templar suffering.

Checkmath

Wardens friendly gapcloser also doesnt have minimal range

WreckfulAbandon

If a fix for jabs is not already in the PTS tomorrow I will be making additional threads

LordSlif

Cinbri wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

i just wanna know why teleport strike is the only gap close without minimum distance 3.5

Fiery Grip also don't have minimal range, making it strongest gap-closer in-game. From class charges only Templar suffering.

Yeah i forgot it, chain needs a rework it is a "gap close", but it works in a strange way, u know what i mean.. and my main is a sorc lol

xaraan

I can mostly only talk about Templars as tanks since that's normally what I play when we run the hardest content (my stamplars and healers don't get tested to that degree in easier content I use them for). So, these ideas might come off as selfish for targeting the Templar in the tank role, but figure I might as well focus on what I'm more familiar with and dream...

Templars make ok tanks, but feels like they should be stronger than they are at the role. Wardens seem to have taken the spot I always thought Templars should be in with the little tankiness they give up vs DK coming at the benefit of extra group heals and buffs.

I've seen mention of the lack of CC and chains, which is always rough for every non DK class. Using FG for Silver Leash chains was an interesting idea, though I really wish Undaunted skill line was used to offer 'dungeoning' support for... well support. Always would have preferred the web/spider ability to be a sub for chain pulling.

Stam regen while blocking. Some classes have this (DK - using Earthen heart, Warden - netch, NB - siphoning) and Sorc has Dark Deal which is very situational, but strong. Templars have nothing really for this unless you are talking about trash pulls combined with Repentance, but in a main boss fight that isn't so useful. So Personally I think the other morph of Rune Focus that does not offer magic return, should offer stam return. That way you can get a small amount of stam back for using a skill the way other classes can.

This thought isn't about Tanking specifically, just an ability that has always seemed meh: Healing Ritual has always been pretty lame. It should just be changed completely imo. Instead of making it a channel, perhaps making it more like a place-able AoE heal like Warden's blossom would make it useful. Definitely should be something along the lines of some sort of "ritual" use, like a place-able enchantment that can be activated.

Burst heal - Breath of Life is ok, even though expensive, for a burst heal; but obviously will go to whoever needs it. How about the Honor the Dead morph (I don't think this morph is used all that often anyhow) be turned into a self heal (scaling off of health even) - could even work differently, instead of just giving you a big heal in one second like Breath or Dragons Blood, it would be like a two-second HoT and on the first tick (since it doesn't have the extra small cast of healing going to someone) could make the Templar glow or sparkle or whatever and do a small AoE 1k heal for anyone within 2m (or smaller even) of them.

Sun Shield is an alright skill, but doesn't really seem to be as solid as a couple other class shields. I really like the idea of the explosion it sets off when you cast it also adding another effect for the caster. Doesn't even have to be Major Evasion, even Minor like what Wardens get with the morph of wings for the first couple seconds of the ability after activation. I also think maybe a 1 or 2 second longer duration is needed.

I'm sure DPS love having the options between magic and stam version of spears, but it would be nice to have a CC-lockdown version of spears. I understand how fun it is to knock people off of stuff in cyrodiil, but having a morph 'pin' your target to the ground like a singular Talons/Encase CC would be nice, and - for it being single target, it could be much cheaper to use than AoE CCs.

SugaComa

A great read ... But I actually like the my house thing, I lay down ritual of retribution and that my play zone ... Channeled focus should not be a ground buff but a self buff dark flare needs a reduced cast time or none at all

But I don't want to lose aspect of what make my Templar fun to play ...

Which is laying out my lawn and saying this is my house these are my guests ... You've crossed a line you ain't coming back from

technohic

Is RD absolute crap now? Was testing it on some mammoths and although it gives that big tick right at the end, the target doesnt actually have that much health and it seems like otherwise; I will kill the target just as fast without it

Cinbri

From Alcast thread of closed testing:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-summerset-isles-changes-pre-pts/

Templar
Puncturing Strikes
Increased the damage done and healing received from this skill by 5%.
Solar Disturbance
Snare effect will go on for 4 seconds after leaving the AoE.
Dark Flare
Debuffs from this ability now apply even if the enemy dodges the attack.
Honor the Dead
Magicka returned from this skill is now completed after 4 seconds instead of 6 seconds.
Healing Ritual
This is now instant cast, cost was increased tremendously.
Enduring Rays Passive
This now increases the time of Sun Fire, Eclipse and Nova abilities by 2 seconds instead of 30%.

casparian

Obviously we'll have to see how things play out in the PTS, but at least on a first look, it doesn't seem that Summerset will go very far to fix magplar issues. Sun Shield, Toppling Charge, and Radial Sweep didn't get touched, and while some of the Psijic skills will definitely be useful (AOE snare/unblockable stun in particular), the class itself still seems stuck in 2016.

Also the Puncturing Sweeps heal nano-buff seems like ZOS is just trolling us at this point.

I'm sure the class will be better in SSI than it is now, but that's a pretty low bar to clear.

IV_Deity

I would like to see the many changes that are discussed in this thread, but there's one that really grinds my gears. I took a long break from this game once with my stamina Templar being my main. I came back after sustain changes to see that Restoring Aura functions a lot differently than it did before. It now gives magicka steal to allies provided they attack enemies.

When I tell you (and I will scream this from the top of any mountain), the previous way this skill worked was MILES better than what it does now.

Previously, Restoring Aura worked like this: When activated: Increase the health and stamina regeneration of nearby allies by an additional 80% for 9 seconds

Now its: apply Minor Magickasteal to all enemies around you for 15 seconds, causing you and your allies to restore 300 Magicka every 1 seconds when damaging them.

This skill was highly underrated back then and I wasn't sure why. Most people said "run repentance" but how could I pass up 80 percent regent of Health and stamina? It was highly beneficial for my stamplar, and helped with sustain.

PLEASE ZOS, revert this ability back to how it was. I really see no reason for the change other than making it harder than it should to sustain.

Mr_Nobody

technohic wrote: »

Is RD absolute crap now? Was testing it on some mammoths and although it gives that big tick right at the end, the target doesnt actually have that much health and it seems like otherwise; I will kill the target just as fast without it

Idk but Kill Counter addon doesnt even register most of its kills

Cinbri

casparian wrote: »

Obviously we'll have to see how things play out in the PTS, but at least on a first look, it doesn't seem that Summerset will go very far to fix magplar issues. Sun Shield, Toppling Charge, and Radial Sweep didn't get touched, and while some of the Psijic skills will definitely be useful (AOE snare/unblockable stun in particular), the class itself still seems stuck in 2016.

Also the Puncturing Sweeps heal nano-buff seems like ZOS is just trolling us at this point.

I'm sure the class will be better in SSI than it is now, but that's a pretty low bar to clear.

Well, its initial changes, more will come over-time of pts. But for now we can compare it only to changes of other classes and fact that 2h weapons will count as 2pc of sets and crit healing will be nerfed.
And some are questionable - like Honor is 8 sec not 6, so either mistake of Alcast or zos..
Enduring Rays is more like cosmetic change.

Minno

Cinbri wrote: »

From Alcast thread of closed testing:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-summerset-isles-changes-pre-pts/

Templar
Puncturing Strikes
Increased the damage done and healing received from this skill by 5%.
Solar Disturbance
Snare effect will go on for 4 seconds after leaving the AoE.
Dark Flare
Debuffs from this ability now apply even if the enemy dodges the attack.
Honor the Dead
Magicka returned from this skill is now completed after 4 seconds instead of 6 seconds.
Healing Ritual
This is now instant cast, cost was increased tremendously.
Enduring Rays Passive
This now increases the time of Sun Fire, Eclipse and Nova abilities by 2 seconds instead of 30%.

Omg.