Is there “actually” cheating in PvP?

JaJaLuka

Thogard wrote: »

There is a distinction between exploiters and hackers, and I consider both to be subcategories of “cheaters”.

Exploiters take advantage of bugs or glitches in the game, but do not alter any code or modify any data.

Hackers, on the other hand, hack their data transmission or use other third party programs to get an edge.

I’ve never seen any real hacking... not in at least two years.

I still see a few exploiters here and there. Things like a fire rune in a battleground spawn for the instant kill by environmental dmg, spamming draining shot to CC lock somebody, the IC exp glitch, etc.

I don’t think we’ll ever get rid of exploiters. But I’m glad that we don’t have to deal with hackers.

I kicked a couple of people from an old guild I used to run for admitting in discord to using ESO cheat engine.
I've also had others admit to using ESO cheat engine in older guilds I used to be a part of, one of which I know still plays and probably still uses it. That was years ago and I still see him frequently in Cyrodiil on the PC/NA server.
Those were the most blatant offenders, however I can almost guarantee there are others.
So the answer to OP's original question is yes, there are still hackers in ESO (at least on PC/NA, can't speak for other servers as I don't play on them).

Ragnarock41

Thogard wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

Many years ago I used to play Team Fortress Classic and I used to be really good at it if I say so myself, anyway I used to mingle with the best of the best, and there was some people who I just could not beat and I used to worship them as Gods at the game. Fast forward 10 years later and there was youtube vids of these so called Gods useing aimbots/wallhacks you name it, and I was like WTF!!!
My teenage nerd years had been ruined by finding out my friends and Hero's were actually cheaters. Its why I now find it comical when I see people quote "He's in my guild I've known him for ages he would never cheat". Unless you have been to the persons house and physically watched them play in person, then you have no actual real idea of who that player is.
I have a video of a player cheating in EU Sotha PC from about 3 weeks ago who's cheats still work as he has just got a new account and using said same cheat program still, and he is taking the *** with it just like the others did few years ago with the Ult spam. I have no doubt at all that quite a few of the "elite pro players" use the same sort of cheats but hide it well, and just cover it by sets and traits.

Denying that there is cheats in this game is just LOL worthy and that immortal duelling/1vXer hero you worship may just upload a video in 10 years time

...

I’ll flat out deny that sustain cheats, stat cheats, dmg enhancing cheats, ult regen cheats, able to use more than one ability per global cooldown cheat, etc exist in this game because all of those are stored server side and are not affected by the client.

Things that are client side are positioning based, hiding based, and blocking based. That’s pretty much it.

Well that makes sense to me. Teleporting is the most common type of cheat I encounter(even that is very rare but seeing it once in only few months is enough to remind me that cheats exist) and I don't think in a game where almost everything is calculated by the server instead of the client, cheats such as ''infinite stats'' or ''macros that let you hit 5 skills in 1 second'' etc are possible.

And yes I'm totally aware of all the macro slices and desnyncs going on with certain abilities.

Mauz

Thogard wrote: »

Here’s a fun way for you to find out:

Go to vivec during prime time

Try to change something

If it changes instantly it’s client side
If it takes 2 seconds or more to change then it’s server side.

I have over 2000 hours of recorded PvP from my stream. I have never seen anything even close to hacking or cheat engine. Closest thing would be a bunny hop macro which, again, is client side and position based.

It's just an indicator. They could calculate stats on client side and send it back to the server to store it there. They could do it for each variable differently. You just dont know how they are doing it. Currently I find the PvP balance fine but the gaming experience itself has never been more annoying to me with all these glitches and lags.

I dont say you are wrong, I didnt have a real evidence for memory hack stats too for a long time...but after watching the evolution of ZoS pvp quality over the years I just dont trust them anymore.

Because what I definitly saw during the last year was one of the more famous youtubers using location hacks to escape, a small group of ppl glitching repeatingly the walls to steal scrolls and one warden being able to jump multiple times further than anyone else. They all still play...

Thogard

Mauz wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Here’s a fun way for you to find out:

Go to vivec during prime time

Try to change something

If it changes instantly it’s client side
If it takes 2 seconds or more to change then it’s server side.

I have over 2000 hours of recorded PvP from my stream. I have never seen anything even close to hacking or cheat engine. Closest thing would be a bunny hop macro which, again, is client side and position based.

It's just an indicator. They could calculate stats on client side and send it back to the server to store it there. They could do it for each variable differently. You just dont know how they are doing it. Currently I find the PvP balance fine but the gaming experience itself has never been more annoying to me with all these glitches and lags.

I dont say you are wrong, I didnt have a real evidence for memory hack stats too for a long time...but after watching the evolution of ZoS pvp quality over the years I just dont trust them anymore.

Because what I definitly saw during the last year was one of the more famous youtubers using location hacks to escape, a small group of ppl glitching repeatingly the walls to steal scrolls and one warden being able to jump multiple times further than anyone else. They all still play...

Well those would all be Location / positioning based hacks which, as mentioned earlier, are client side variables and not server side and therefore subject to being hacked...

Marcus684

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

Many years ago I used to play Team Fortress Classic and I used to be really good at it if I say so myself, anyway I used to mingle with the best of the best, and there was some people who I just could not beat and I used to worship them as Gods at the game. Fast forward 10 years later and there was youtube vids of these so called Gods useing aimbots/wallhacks you name it, and I was like WTF!!!
My teenage nerd years had been ruined by finding out my friends and Hero's were actually cheaters. Its why I now find it comical when I see people quote "He's in my guild I've known him for ages he would never cheat". Unless you have been to the persons house and physically watched them play in person, then you have no actual real idea of who that player is.
I have a video of a player cheating in EU Sotha PC from about 3 weeks ago who's cheats still work as he has just got a new account and using said same cheat program still, and he is taking the *** with it just like the others did few years ago with the Ult spam. I have no doubt at all that quite a few of the "elite pro players" use the same sort of cheats but hide it well, and just cover it by sets and traits.

Denying that there is cheats in this game is just LOL worthy and that immortal duelling/1vXer hero you worship may just upload a video in 10 years time

...

I’ll flat out deny that sustain cheats, stat cheats, dmg enhancing cheats, ult regen cheats, able to use more than one ability per global cooldown cheat, etc exist in this game because all of those are stored server side and are not affected by the client.

Things that are client side are positioning based, hiding based, and blocking based. That’s pretty much it.

You know nothing Jon Snow.

Well I know how to tell the difference between server side variables and client input variables, which sadly makes me more of an expert on this than 99% of the people posting here.

And then there’s always that l33t player that claims to know more than everyone else, has been playing so long he knows the truth, and claims there is no, or almost no, cheating, and belittles those that disagree. Makes you wonder...

ShadowProc

Thogard wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Well I know how to tell the difference between server side variables and client input variables, which sadly makes me more of an expert on this than 99% of the people posting here.

And you know that because ZoS send you their data model? I didn't find a list which variables are stored client and server side and where they are computed and how. Only thing I found were ppl claiming certain group of character data is now stored/calculated server or client side. But that doesnt mean you know anything. Even if you had the data model you cant be sure whether this certain dev did even give a *** on it

Here’s a fun way for you to find out:

Go to vivec during prime time

Try to change something

If it changes instantly it’s client side
If it takes 2 seconds or more to change then it’s server side.

I have over 2000 hours of recorded PvP from my stream. I have never seen anything even close to hacking or cheat engine. Closest thing would be a bunny hop macro which, again, is client side and position based.

What I have seen a lot of is bad players complaining about cheating that is actually impossible to do with the way the current game is set up. The flawed logic of the “cheating is possible you don’t know for sure that it isn’t” reminds me of the anti vaccination people who not only cant show proof to back them up but who refuse to look at basic evidence that contradicts their claims and also ignore the actual science behind it.

People would cheat if they could. ZOS has made most forms of that impossible. Bad players always need excuses though.

You can’t be serious. You are trolling. THERE ARE VIDEOS. You were here for the cheat engine scandal. Literally meteors falling from the sky.

There is a certain group of people that claimed there “is nothing to see here”. Guess what? Most of them are banned now.

Thogard

ShadowProc wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Well I know how to tell the difference between server side variables and client input variables, which sadly makes me more of an expert on this than 99% of the people posting here.

And you know that because ZoS send you their data model? I didn't find a list which variables are stored client and server side and where they are computed and how. Only thing I found were ppl claiming certain group of character data is now stored/calculated server or client side. But that doesnt mean you know anything. Even if you had the data model you cant be sure whether this certain dev did even give a *** on it

Here’s a fun way for you to find out:

Go to vivec during prime time

Try to change something

If it changes instantly it’s client side
If it takes 2 seconds or more to change then it’s server side.

I have over 2000 hours of recorded PvP from my stream. I have never seen anything even close to hacking or cheat engine. Closest thing would be a bunny hop macro which, again, is client side and position based.

What I have seen a lot of is bad players complaining about cheating that is actually impossible to do with the way the current game is set up. The flawed logic of the “cheating is possible you don’t know for sure that it isn’t” reminds me of the anti vaccination people who not only cant show proof to back them up but who refuse to look at basic evidence that contradicts their claims and also ignore the actual science behind it.

People would cheat if they could. ZOS has made most forms of that impossible. Bad players always need excuses though.

You can’t be serious. You are trolling. THERE ARE VIDEOS. You were here for the cheat engine scandal. Literally meteors falling from the sky.

There is a certain group of people that claimed there “is nothing to see here”. Guess what? Most of them are banned now.

Actually that happened while I was still in PvE land.

But that prompted the shift in moving most variables from client side to server side.

Thogard

Marcus684 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

Many years ago I used to play Team Fortress Classic and I used to be really good at it if I say so myself, anyway I used to mingle with the best of the best, and there was some people who I just could not beat and I used to worship them as Gods at the game. Fast forward 10 years later and there was youtube vids of these so called Gods useing aimbots/wallhacks you name it, and I was like WTF!!!
My teenage nerd years had been ruined by finding out my friends and Hero's were actually cheaters. Its why I now find it comical when I see people quote "He's in my guild I've known him for ages he would never cheat". Unless you have been to the persons house and physically watched them play in person, then you have no actual real idea of who that player is.
I have a video of a player cheating in EU Sotha PC from about 3 weeks ago who's cheats still work as he has just got a new account and using said same cheat program still, and he is taking the *** with it just like the others did few years ago with the Ult spam. I have no doubt at all that quite a few of the "elite pro players" use the same sort of cheats but hide it well, and just cover it by sets and traits.

Denying that there is cheats in this game is just LOL worthy and that immortal duelling/1vXer hero you worship may just upload a video in 10 years time

...

I’ll flat out deny that sustain cheats, stat cheats, dmg enhancing cheats, ult regen cheats, able to use more than one ability per global cooldown cheat, etc exist in this game because all of those are stored server side and are not affected by the client.

Things that are client side are positioning based, hiding based, and blocking based. That’s pretty much it.

You know nothing Jon Snow.

Well I know how to tell the difference between server side variables and client input variables, which sadly makes me more of an expert on this than 99% of the people posting here.

And then there’s always that l33t player that claims to know more than everyone else, has been playing so long he knows the truth, and claims there is no, or almost no, cheating, and belittles those that disagree. Makes you wonder...

Yeah I’m the one streamer that set up a hand cam to record finger clicks and keyboard presses. I’m the only single streamer in eso that you can confirm for 100% certainty is not hacking or cheating in any way.

“But what about his regen and healing?” -hypothetical bad player

Add it up. It’s all there in the vods

So before you start slinging that whole “makes you wonder” why don’t you put up a hand cam and show al your processes while streaming.

Quit memeing.

Dunning_Kruger

Cheater: a player that is generally better than you but makes you angry due to an insecurity to admit you are bad.

“Look at this guy he doesn’t die and does 10 attacks at once. SLIDERS!”

Lol I played with this guy who was an absolute trashcan and would be convinced that people had “sliders” that they were using to tune up their damage and health regen. Eventually I got better; and he didn’t because he was trapped under the glass ceiling that he would have to cheat too to get that good. It turns out not weaving light attacks ; building for sustain; and back pedaling when scared were not solid strats for us. I still see him around; he even asked me why I started cheating too. This community is straight up delusional. The best part is I see people accuse people I know to be absolutely garbage at the game of cheating and I think “man if he is cheating and is still that bad maybe he does need it anyways”.

mursie

I think people use cheats in video games
I think eso is a video game

Dunning_Kruger

mursie wrote: »

I think people use cheats in video games
I think eso is a video game

*read death recap*


“SLIDERS!!!!”

Marcus684

Thogard wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

Many years ago I used to play Team Fortress Classic and I used to be really good at it if I say so myself, anyway I used to mingle with the best of the best, and there was some people who I just could not beat and I used to worship them as Gods at the game. Fast forward 10 years later and there was youtube vids of these so called Gods useing aimbots/wallhacks you name it, and I was like WTF!!!
My teenage nerd years had been ruined by finding out my friends and Hero's were actually cheaters. Its why I now find it comical when I see people quote "He's in my guild I've known him for ages he would never cheat". Unless you have been to the persons house and physically watched them play in person, then you have no actual real idea of who that player is.
I have a video of a player cheating in EU Sotha PC from about 3 weeks ago who's cheats still work as he has just got a new account and using said same cheat program still, and he is taking the *** with it just like the others did few years ago with the Ult spam. I have no doubt at all that quite a few of the "elite pro players" use the same sort of cheats but hide it well, and just cover it by sets and traits.

Denying that there is cheats in this game is just LOL worthy and that immortal duelling/1vXer hero you worship may just upload a video in 10 years time

...

I’ll flat out deny that sustain cheats, stat cheats, dmg enhancing cheats, ult regen cheats, able to use more than one ability per global cooldown cheat, etc exist in this game because all of those are stored server side and are not affected by the client.

Things that are client side are positioning based, hiding based, and blocking based. That’s pretty much it.

You know nothing Jon Snow.

Well I know how to tell the difference between server side variables and client input variables, which sadly makes me more of an expert on this than 99% of the people posting here.

And then there’s always that l33t player that claims to know more than everyone else, has been playing so long he knows the truth, and claims there is no, or almost no, cheating, and belittles those that disagree. Makes you wonder...

Yeah I’m the one streamer that set up a hand cam to record finger clicks and keyboard presses. I’m the only single streamer in eso that you can confirm for 100% certainty is not hacking or cheating in any way.

“But what about his regen and healing?” -hypothetical bad player

Add it up. It’s all there in the vods

So before you start slinging that whole “makes you wonder” why don’t you put up a hand cam and show al your processes while streaming.

Quit memeing.

I don’t stream. I get my income and fulfillment from other places.

Iskiab

Did a BG today, someone claimed there was another team who stopped taking damage later on in the BG.

Idk, I was in cyrodiil once and I swear my heals weren’t doing anything and couldn’t use time stop. I had to relog to fix it, so something similar might have happened to him.

If people are cheating it upsets my sense of fairness, but at the same time I also think it’s good on me that I’m still doing well.

It’s like premades. I solo queued today and our group just stomped everyone. Some guy kept sending me tells mid-BG from a different team about how premades ruin pvp and trying to shame me.

I sorta think if you don’t get accused of cheating, or premade, or whatever every so often then I need to improve and step up my game.

heavier

no other game can make me swear like ESO does
I'm back playing and man
even if they aren't cheating it makes me want to pull out my hair so bad I would almost be sympathetic for people who just cave in and get a cheat engine

Exodus5656

I have heard of people resource flipping during pvp events. Personally I don't see a point in cheating. Put simply, this game is played by humans and humans cheat. It makes it even easier that you play on PC so you can do sorcery with pc skillz and easily cheat the hell out of any MMO.

Lord_Zele

Ley wrote: »

I assume that 99% of perceived cheating is just the other players lack of understanding of game mechanics, latency, computer issues, or just L2P.

THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE IS 100 PERCENT FACT.

armeegrun

This one time, I got killed in Cyrodil, he was cheating.... Then later, I was in BG and got killed, and he was cheating too....lol

Seriously though, I have seen some odd things in Cyrodil, like a player "glitching" across the map, could be a connection issue though,or lag etc. I had a recent experience that every time we encountered a certain group of "Blue" alliance, none of our attacks would fire off. I assumed this was lag or something as well, but there was a lot of other talk of hacks and cheats...

I dunno, I think there will always be a certain type of person that will want to use some sort of add on or hack the game file to gain an edge. I don't think they are too common though, as it cant really be all that fun, and I'm sure they would get caught at some point.

Raudgrani

I know there was videos on Youtube of people cheating on console, hooking up a laptop to it. And running macros too, yes.

Exploiters we got in loads, but cheaters are more sublime. I think macroing is the most common thing. There's something more too, and it's not called "good at managing resources", it's called unlimited such. ESPECIALLY, since you can meet same guy, same character, same campaign the next day - and they die so easily. What's that all about? The day before, their health snapped up from like 4% to 100% over and over again, and suddenly they are very mortal. Forgot to feed their toon skooma, or they just didn't bother doing whatever made them immortal the day before?

I mean, how do you think all these farming bots work? You have 20 full time employees standing on Bleakrock island, pushing same buttons at the exact same phase, for like 5 days in without a break? Wouldn't that be impressive?

evoniee

in fact, cheat is a real thing in this game.
i saw cheat realted thread few months ago with legit video

Mayrael

Lol, I have a vid where a player tries to jump from outer BB tower to inner keep and he lamost succeeds, in general he was lamost unkillable. Sheits like this are very bad for players health.

Theignson

I suspect Macro use may be a common form of cheating, especially for certain "burst combos". A macro would be a set of instructions that can be triggered by a single key. I've never googled it but I would guess it would be something like: [1)light attack 2) pause .598 seconds 3) ability 1] and repeat something like this for several abilities to give you your "burst".

The advantage of a Macro for this would be consistency-- your burst would always be perfect.

This would not get around GCD. It would not bypass restrictions on timing etc.

But what you would notice receiving these "bursts" was the light attack and ability would ALWAYS land within .002 seconds, ie simultaneously, for each ability in the sequence.

You could detect this in combat logs. A human being could not, no matter how "good" reliably and consistently animation cancel within .002 seconds on each ability in a combination. It is beyond the capability of human neuronal physiology. The standard deviation of the time gap between the landing of the light attack and the ability would be much higher for a human hitting keys than for a computer macro.

You can test this at your own target dummy. Ani cancel a light attack with an ability 10 times, then check combat metrics and see how far apart the light attack and ability lands. You can usually get them quite close.. BUT you can't get them exactly .002 seconds apart every time .

Of course the disadvanatge of a macro would be that the opposing player can move away and then you are doing abilities that are worthless. But if your "macro burst" started with a stun ability (eg Incap) you could pull off perfect bursts every time.

Of course ZOS could detect this by analyzing the standard deviation of attack timing variance. But I strongly doubt they do this.

Raudgrani

Theignson wrote: »

I suspect Macro use may be a common form of cheating, especially for certain "burst combos". A macro would be a set of instructions that can be triggered by a single key. I've never googled it but I would guess it would be something like: [1)light attack 2) pause .598 seconds 3) ability 1] and repeat something like this for several abilities to give you your "burst".

The advantage of a Macro for this would be consistency-- your burst would always be perfect.

This would not get around GCD. It would not bypass restrictions on timing etc.

But what you would notice receiving these "bursts" was the light attack and ability would ALWAYS land within .002 seconds, ie simultaneously, for each ability in the sequence.

You could detect this in combat logs. A human being could not, no matter how "good" reliably and consistently animation cancel within .002 seconds on each ability in a combination. It is beyond the capability of human neuronal physiology. The standard deviation of the time gap between the landing of the light attack and the ability would be much higher for a human hitting keys than for a computer macro.

You can test this at your own target dummy. Ani cancel a light attack with an ability 10 times, then check combat metrics and see how far apart the light attack and ability lands. You can usually get them quite close.. BUT you can't get them exactly .002 seconds apart every time .

Of course the disadvanatge of a macro would be that the opposing player can move away and then you are doing abilities that are worthless. But if your "macro burst" started with a stun ability (eg Incap) you could pull off perfect bursts every time.

Of course ZOS could detect this by analyzing the standard deviation of attack timing variance. But I strongly doubt they do this.

Exactly this. There are people a lot better than me, but I mean - I can pull off pretty good rotations with animation canceling etc. on dummies, and to a certain extent in PVE, but in PVP, it's really, really hard to pull off. Especially consistently. Not only because you have to be more cautious, and because the target is usually moving, but because of the lag etc. If I try to pull off a rotation like that, it just doesn't happen most of the time. At least, one or a couple of attacks won't go off. But then you have people don't same schoolbook perfect combinations, while you are both moving and fighting in a tower or what not... A bit fishy, at least.

Thogard

Raudgrani wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

I suspect Macro use may be a common form of cheating, especially for certain "burst combos". A macro would be a set of instructions that can be triggered by a single key. I've never googled it but I would guess it would be something like: [1)light attack 2) pause .598 seconds 3) ability 1] and repeat something like this for several abilities to give you your "burst".

The advantage of a Macro for this would be consistency-- your burst would always be perfect.

This would not get around GCD. It would not bypass restrictions on timing etc.

But what you would notice receiving these "bursts" was the light attack and ability would ALWAYS land within .002 seconds, ie simultaneously, for each ability in the sequence.

You could detect this in combat logs. A human being could not, no matter how "good" reliably and consistently animation cancel within .002 seconds on each ability in a combination. It is beyond the capability of human neuronal physiology. The standard deviation of the time gap between the landing of the light attack and the ability would be much higher for a human hitting keys than for a computer macro.

You can test this at your own target dummy. Ani cancel a light attack with an ability 10 times, then check combat metrics and see how far apart the light attack and ability lands. You can usually get them quite close.. BUT you can't get them exactly .002 seconds apart every time .

Of course the disadvanatge of a macro would be that the opposing player can move away and then you are doing abilities that are worthless. But if your "macro burst" started with a stun ability (eg Incap) you could pull off perfect bursts every time.

Of course ZOS could detect this by analyzing the standard deviation of attack timing variance. But I strongly doubt they do this.

Exactly this. There are people a lot better than me, but I mean - I can pull off pretty good rotations with animation canceling etc. on dummies, and to a certain extent in PVE, but in PVP, it's really, really hard to pull off. Especially consistently. Not only because you have to be more cautious, and because the target is usually moving, but because of the lag etc. If I try to pull off a rotation like that, it just doesn't happen most of the time. At least, one or a couple of attacks won't go off. But then you have people don't same schoolbook perfect combinations, while you are both moving and fighting in a tower or what not... A bit fishy, at least.

He said that if you opened a combo with a stun then the macro would work every time.

He clearly lacks information on how break free works. Or how server lag works.

Probably a PvE player that’s never PvPed before and is just hypothesizing.

Marcus684

Thogard wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

I suspect Macro use may be a common form of cheating, especially for certain "burst combos". A macro would be a set of instructions that can be triggered by a single key. I've never googled it but I would guess it would be something like: [1)light attack 2) pause .598 seconds 3) ability 1] and repeat something like this for several abilities to give you your "burst".

The advantage of a Macro for this would be consistency-- your burst would always be perfect.

This would not get around GCD. It would not bypass restrictions on timing etc.

But what you would notice receiving these "bursts" was the light attack and ability would ALWAYS land within .002 seconds, ie simultaneously, for each ability in the sequence.

You could detect this in combat logs. A human being could not, no matter how "good" reliably and consistently animation cancel within .002 seconds on each ability in a combination. It is beyond the capability of human neuronal physiology. The standard deviation of the time gap between the landing of the light attack and the ability would be much higher for a human hitting keys than for a computer macro.

You can test this at your own target dummy. Ani cancel a light attack with an ability 10 times, then check combat metrics and see how far apart the light attack and ability lands. You can usually get them quite close.. BUT you can't get them exactly .002 seconds apart every time .

Of course the disadvanatge of a macro would be that the opposing player can move away and then you are doing abilities that are worthless. But if your "macro burst" started with a stun ability (eg Incap) you could pull off perfect bursts every time.

Of course ZOS could detect this by analyzing the standard deviation of attack timing variance. But I strongly doubt they do this.

Exactly this. There are people a lot better than me, but I mean - I can pull off pretty good rotations with animation canceling etc. on dummies, and to a certain extent in PVE, but in PVP, it's really, really hard to pull off. Especially consistently. Not only because you have to be more cautious, and because the target is usually moving, but because of the lag etc. If I try to pull off a rotation like that, it just doesn't happen most of the time. At least, one or a couple of attacks won't go off. But then you have people don't same schoolbook perfect combinations, while you are both moving and fighting in a tower or what not... A bit fishy, at least.

He said that if you opened a combo with a stun then the macro would work every time.

He clearly lacks information on how break free works. Or how server lag works.

Probably a PvE player that’s never PvPed before and is just hypothesizing.

Funny how it’s the same people denying cheating over and over again. Makes you wonder (/meme).

Theignson

Thogard wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

He said that if you opened a combo with a stun then the macro would work every time.

He clearly lacks information on how break free works. Or how server lag works.

Probably a PvE player that’s never PvPed before and is just hypothesizing.

Thogard my main is an AR46 DK, my second is AR39stam warden, I have been around, although not as much as you and others. I've Pvped virtually every day in the last year, exclusively in cyrodil. I have even fought your group a few times in cyrodil.

I shouldn't have said "every time" because, as I indicated, the targeted player can move , and as you noted, break free etc.

But your posts are informed enough that you should assess what I said about statistics. I assume you have some knowledge of statistical analysis, standard deviation, etc.

I have logged players who have landed the exact same combo on me (well on my squishy 3rd, a stamblade) with almost identical .002 second delays between their light attacks and the abilities in every sequence. Consistently doing this, I argue is statistically impossible given human physiology.

Maybe you can reproduce this, I'd like to know. I do admire you for showing your keystrokes.

I don't think its common, but on the other hand I haven't looked much.

Insco851

Of course there are.

Mile long rez’s are the most obvious.

Theignson

Thogard my main is an AR46 stam DK, my second is AR39 stam warden, I have been around, although not as much as you and others. I've Pvped virtually every day in the last year, exclusively in cyrodil. I have even fought your group a few times in cyrodil.

I shouldn't have said "every time" because, as I indicated, the targeted player can move , and as you noted, break free etc.

But your posts are informed enough that you should assess what I said about statistics. I assume you have some knowledge of statistical analysis, standard deviation, etc.

I have logged players who have landed the exact same combo on me (well on my squishy 3rd, a stamblade) with almost identical .002 second delays between their light attacks and the abilities in every sequence. Consistently doing this, I argue is statistically impossible given human physiology.

Maybe you can reproduce this, I'd like to know. I do admire you for showing your keystrokes.

I don't think its common, but on the other hand I haven't looked much.

If you think about it, people could just assign a light attack macro (as described in my last post) for each of their 5 abilities and use a multi=key mouse. Then they would have perfect weaving each time they used an ability.

LeifErickson

Macros are really unnecessary for pvp imo. If you are blaming macros on why you are losing you are blaming the wrong thing. You should be blaming your own inability instead.

Theignson

LeifErickson wrote: »

Macros are really unnecessary for pvp imo. If you are blaming macros on why you are losing you are blaming the wrong thing. You should be blaming your own inability instead.

Leif,
The topic of the thread is not "Did you lose in PvP because of cheating?" , it is "Is there any actual cheating in cyrodil". My post is simply stating that I think some people use macros, and I explained how you could prove this with timed combat logs.

Personally I don't think I "lose" that much. When I do, I try to figure out how to improve, especially on new characters/classes

Thogard

Theignson wrote: »

Thogard my main is an AR46 stam DK, my second is AR39 stam warden, I have been around, although not as much as you and others. I've Pvped virtually every day in the last year, exclusively in cyrodil. I have even fought your group a few times in cyrodil.

I shouldn't have said "every time" because, as I indicated, the targeted player can move , and as you noted, break free etc.

But your posts are informed enough that you should assess what I said about statistics. I assume you have some knowledge of statistical analysis, standard deviation, etc.

I have logged players who have landed the exact same combo on me (well on my squishy 3rd, a stamblade) with almost identical .002 second delays between their light attacks and the abilities in every sequence. Consistently doing this, I argue is statistically impossible given human physiology.

Maybe you can reproduce this, I'd like to know. I do admire you for showing your keystrokes.

I don't think its common, but on the other hand I haven't looked much.

If you think about it, people could just assign a light attack macro (as described in my last post) for each of their 5 abilities and use a multi=key mouse. Then they would have perfect weaving each time they used an ability.

If you’re logging it on your end then that means they’re getting no variance in their route to the server and then no server processing time variance (lol) and finally no variance on the servers route to you. Or if logs are server side then only the first two...

Regardless, your logs are meaningless.

Only client side logs from the person accused would be relevant