Is there “actually” cheating in PvP?

heavier

Yamakaziing wrote: »

Big time. Hack central. Whoever is controlling this game from the inside out is doing a whole lot more than a simple CE. The same players want complete control of it, they don’t care who’s fun they ruin. Pvp is still fun, but there are builds out there that should be so much better than they are and it’s very sad to see such neglect with a game I used to love implicitly. With that said it’s also one of the most successful manipulative rigged systems I’ve ever seen. Doing everything they can to forge the game exactly how they want it so the rest are just easy ap.

ye I'm new to ESO.
I have a lot of ideas, and you're obviously more experienced than I am.
I'm glad you're still around to bear witness, because I am able to attest to the reality that people cheat relentlessly. it's everywhere, even outside of videogames.

love is the solution.

just make a community strong enough to withstand dummies.

I've owned cheaters before.

utterly dominated them.

they kept on playing and made an ass of themselves by denying such ownage ever occurred.

good for them, it's their game as well.

ESO can go a lot further with the platform we've got, simply by keeping the ontology up.

it's good to take things slow, we're only just exiting the dark ages by my understanding.

people are talking about the issues they're having, and it seems like a lot of the early hiccups have long been addressed since before I joined.

Cathexis

I have been in regular fights in cyrodiil where I go to engage a player, or a group charges and in the seconds leading up to engaging, weaponswap stops working, skills stop responding. At first I thought this was simply a lag/latency issue, but other players don't seem to be affected by this problem while it's happening, and it repeatedly only occurs when I am within a certain range of certain players/groups. At one point, I was testing it in a large scale fight, and I was able to locate the approximate precipice upon which the supposed "bug" occurs (although it is difficult to say if it is some sort of automated script or some sort of manual interference with the server).

To say there is no cheating happening is simply not realistic, players have a certain degree of access to the way their client and server interact, and there is no shortage of players who don't see exploiting this for a tactical advantage as foul play. I mean I've seen exploits in other games where players can issue commands to the server that manipulate game variables like fooling the server into thinking they picked up the maximum carryable gold etc etc.

All technology is fallible.

mustangmorgan31

You will see the cheaters come out when that Sheo weapon thing happens. It will spawn and people will be flying across the map magically. Just wait and see...

wolveman

Just last night player get 14 kills 0 deaths 26 assist dose not loose hp hit points and able to do this under 12 min. Win the match same cp as us but able to wipe out all players win the match.
I seen this on cod plenty of times their are ways to cheating if their able to do it on those games then their able to do it on pc Xbox ps4.
Their was a another match last night same thing no deaths massive kills no hp loss somethings fishy some say zennimax got their favors towards other players some say theirs connections been hearing it for years from word of mouth.

Blinkin8r

The most blatant and only form of cheating I've ever seen really is the scroll glitch where people will get through your gate, pick up the scroll after you've closed the gate and immediately port (With the scroll) to their gate.

Zacuel

I know of people I pvp with always talking about cheating and sharing his conspiracies passing them off as fact. We've learned to roll our eyes at the guy.

kaithuzar

I have both accused & been accused.

It doesn’t help when you have multiple MMO companies that can’t agree on a single definition of what “is or is not” cheating.
So if the game you played for the last decade called something cheating & you switch to ESO, you’re not exactly going to get the ZOS definition immediately ingrained.

I love this game but the bugs & performance can be so bad & so vast that it’s impossible to tell if intentionally exploiting or just terrible code/servers/network.

But from my perspective cheaters are on late night like midnight to 2am

Thogard

wolveman wrote: »

Just last night player get 14 kills 0 deaths 26 assist dose not loose hp hit points and able to do this under 12 min. Win the match same cp as us but able to wipe out all players win the match.
I seen this on cod plenty of times their are ways to cheating if their able to do it on those games then their able to do it on pc Xbox ps4.
Their was a another match last night same thing no deaths massive kills no hp loss somethings fishy some say zennimax got their favors towards other players some say theirs connections been hearing it for years from word of mouth.

14:0 is hardly impressive. Needs to be at least 30:0 to be worth bragging about imo. You probably just had a high MMR player on a new toon get into a low MMR match due to it being a new character for him.

Bone_Demon

wolveman wrote: »

Just last night player get 14 kills 0 deaths 26 assist dose not loose hp hit points and able to do this under 12 min. Win the match same cp as us but able to wipe out all players win the match.
I seen this on cod plenty of times their are ways to cheating if their able to do it on those games then their able to do it on pc Xbox ps4.
Their was a another match last night same thing no deaths massive kills no hp loss somethings fishy some say zennimax got their favors towards other players some say theirs connections been hearing it for years from word of mouth.

i know necromancers are coming soon but damn son did you have to necro a year old thread TWICE ?

Gretzel

As long as humans keep their poisoned mindset: they'll cheat at anything.

ecru

Someone posted a video using cheat engine or something else to cheat on the bg forums like a week ago. The thread was removed pretty quickly though. It's still possible to cheat, so clearly people still cheat.

Zacuel wrote: »

I know of people I pvp with always talking about cheating and sharing his conspiracies passing them off as fact. We've learned to roll our eyes at the guy.

He might not be correct about who is cheating, but he's not wrong about people still cheating. The video I mentioned featured invisibility, taking zero damage, and jumping up onto keep walls from the ground. All possible as of a few weeks ago.

Marcus684

If it’s possible to cheat, some people will cheat. It’s just human nature. Denying that cheating exists in this game makes a person look foolish or suspicious.

That being said, I think 75% or so of “cheating” complaints are noobs who don’t understand game mechanics, or permanent whiners who will never accept that someone could be better than them.

Ragnarock41

Marcus684 wrote: »

If it’s possible to cheat, some people will cheat. It’s just human nature. Denying that cheating exists in this game makes a person look foolish or suspicious.

That being said, I think 75% or so of “cheating” complaints are noobs who don’t understand game mechanics, or permanent whiners who will never accept that someone could be better than them.

More like %95 of them. But there are some legit cheaters. Not cheats like infinite stats,''macros'' or that sort of thing but more like the kind of cheater that teleports around and flies up to keep walls without using any sort of gapcloser&teleport ability.

And this is for obvious reasons, the game does the calculations server side instead of client side. This I think is the cause of cyrodiil lag but it also eliminates like %99 of the ways you could cheat in this game. Very clever solution, if only it didn't murder performance ESO would be perfect.

Marcus684

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

If it’s possible to cheat, some people will cheat. It’s just human nature. Denying that cheating exists in this game makes a person look foolish or suspicious.

That being said, I think 75% or so of “cheating” complaints are noobs who don’t understand game mechanics, or permanent whiners who will never accept that someone could be better than them.

More like %95 of them. But there are some legit cheaters. Not cheats like infinite stats,''macros'' or that sort of thing but more like the kind of cheater that teleports around and flies up to keep walls without using any sort of gapcloser&teleport ability.

And this is for obvious reasons, the game does the calculations server side instead of client side. This I think is the cause of cyrodiil lag but it also eliminates like %99 of the ways you could cheat in this game. Very clever solution, if only it didn't murder performance ESO would be perfect.

Infinite stats is absolutely a cheat. Being able to build around minimal regen, and then using a cheat to crank it up to a level that’s still hard to detect, is complete horseshat. This is probably the most common way that people cheat and avoid a ban for so long, due to how hard it is to detect. “Just heavy attack, noob”.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Marcus684 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

If it’s possible to cheat, some people will cheat. It’s just human nature. Denying that cheating exists in this game makes a person look foolish or suspicious.

That being said, I think 75% or so of “cheating” complaints are noobs who don’t understand game mechanics, or permanent whiners who will never accept that someone could be better than them.

More like %95 of them. But there are some legit cheaters. Not cheats like infinite stats,''macros'' or that sort of thing but more like the kind of cheater that teleports around and flies up to keep walls without using any sort of gapcloser&teleport ability.

And this is for obvious reasons, the game does the calculations server side instead of client side. This I think is the cause of cyrodiil lag but it also eliminates like %99 of the ways you could cheat in this game. Very clever solution, if only it didn't murder performance ESO would be perfect.

Infinite stats is absolutely a cheat. Being able to build around minimal regen, and then using a cheat to crank it up to a level that’s still hard to detect, is complete horseshat. This is probably the most common way that people cheat and avoid a ban for so long, due to how hard it is to detect. “Just heavy attack, noob”.

What concerns me is your level of certainty, all you’ve done is seen someone be good at the game and your first instinct is to assume, with absolute conviction, that they must be a cheater.

Thogard

Marcus684 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

If it’s possible to cheat, some people will cheat. It’s just human nature. Denying that cheating exists in this game makes a person look foolish or suspicious.

That being said, I think 75% or so of “cheating” complaints are noobs who don’t understand game mechanics, or permanent whiners who will never accept that someone could be better than them.

More like %95 of them. But there are some legit cheaters. Not cheats like infinite stats,''macros'' or that sort of thing but more like the kind of cheater that teleports around and flies up to keep walls without using any sort of gapcloser&teleport ability.

And this is for obvious reasons, the game does the calculations server side instead of client side. This I think is the cause of cyrodiil lag but it also eliminates like %99 of the ways you could cheat in this game. Very clever solution, if only it didn't murder performance ESO would be perfect.

Infinite stats is absolutely a cheat. Being able to build around minimal regen, and then using a cheat to crank it up to a level that’s still hard to detect, is complete horseshat. This is probably the most common way that people cheat and avoid a ban for so long, due to how hard it is to detect. “Just heavy attack, noob”.

Stats are server side, not client side.

Dunning_Kruger

When you are first learning and refuse to accept you are terrible; there are cheaters everywhere. Eventually folks stop zerging try to learn to play; reach out to cheaters; and realize they were just playing the game wrong. The problem is; it’s just easier to cry hacks than admit oneself needs improvement.

Most_Awesome

Many years ago I used to play Team Fortress Classic and I used to be really good at it if I say so myself, anyway I used to mingle with the best of the best, and there was some people who I just could not beat and I used to worship them as Gods at the game. Fast forward 10 years later and there was youtube vids of these so called Gods useing aimbots/wallhacks you name it, and I was like WTF!!!
My teenage nerd years had been ruined by finding out my friends and Hero's were actually cheaters. Its why I now find it comical when I see people quote "He's in my guild I've known him for ages he would never cheat". Unless you have been to the persons house and physically watched them play in person, then you have no actual real idea of who that player is.
I have a video of a player cheating in EU Sotha PC from about 3 weeks ago who's cheats still work as he has just got a new account and using said same cheat program still, and he is taking the *** with it just like the others did few years ago with the Ult spam. I have no doubt at all that quite a few of the "elite pro players" use the same sort of cheats but hide it well, and just cover it by sets and traits.

Denying that there is cheats in this game is just LOL worthy and that immortal duelling/1vXer hero you worship may just upload a video in 10 years time

Thogard

Most_Awesome wrote: »

Many years ago I used to play Team Fortress Classic and I used to be really good at it if I say so myself, anyway I used to mingle with the best of the best, and there was some people who I just could not beat and I used to worship them as Gods at the game. Fast forward 10 years later and there was youtube vids of these so called Gods useing aimbots/wallhacks you name it, and I was like WTF!!!
My teenage nerd years had been ruined by finding out my friends and Hero's were actually cheaters. Its why I now find it comical when I see people quote "He's in my guild I've known him for ages he would never cheat". Unless you have been to the persons house and physically watched them play in person, then you have no actual real idea of who that player is.
I have a video of a player cheating in EU Sotha PC from about 3 weeks ago who's cheats still work as he has just got a new account and using said same cheat program still, and he is taking the *** with it just like the others did few years ago with the Ult spam. I have no doubt at all that quite a few of the "elite pro players" use the same sort of cheats but hide it well, and just cover it by sets and traits.

Denying that there is cheats in this game is just LOL worthy and that immortal duelling/1vXer hero you worship may just upload a video in 10 years time

...

I’ll flat out deny that sustain cheats, stat cheats, dmg enhancing cheats, ult regen cheats, able to use more than one ability per global cooldown cheat, etc exist in this game because all of those are stored server side and are not affected by the client.

Things that are client side are positioning based, hiding based, and blocking based. That’s pretty much it.

Iskiab

I saw this thread yesterday and didn’t think anything of it. Then I played a capture the relic game today and saw some weird stuff.

I used crushing shock on someone trying to pick up a relic and it didn’t interrupt. Same dude was able to pick up the relic so fast I couldn’t react, almost seemed instant.

Is there a game mechanic I’m missing or was it lag? I don’t understand what happened. I thought the interrupt on crushing was guaranteed.

Thogard

Iskiab wrote: »

I saw this thread yesterday and didn’t think anything of it. Then I played a capture the relic game today and saw some weird stuff.

I used crushing shock on someone trying to pick up a relic and it didn’t interrupt. Same dude was able to pick up the relic so fast I couldn’t react, almost seemed instant.

Is there a game mechanic I’m missing or was it lag? I don’t understand what happened. I thought the interrupt on crushing was guaranteed.

There’s a few different ways this can happen without any hack or cheat involved. Stealth potions, shape change issue, animation cancelling bug, blessed meridian, etc

Iskiab

Blessed Meridian, yea that’s possible. What’s the animation cancelled bug? I don’t think any of the other things could have happened.

Imryll

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I dont think there is for years now.

A lot of addons should be removed.
Combat interface should only be buff timers and damage/heal scrolls NOTHING ELSE.

And the timers should be available as part of the base game, not just via addons.

Shadow-Fighter

Trancestor

Marcus684 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

If it’s possible to cheat, some people will cheat. It’s just human nature. Denying that cheating exists in this game makes a person look foolish or suspicious.

That being said, I think 75% or so of “cheating” complaints are noobs who don’t understand game mechanics, or permanent whiners who will never accept that someone could be better than them.

More like %95 of them. But there are some legit cheaters. Not cheats like infinite stats,''macros'' or that sort of thing but more like the kind of cheater that teleports around and flies up to keep walls without using any sort of gapcloser&teleport ability.

And this is for obvious reasons, the game does the calculations server side instead of client side. This I think is the cause of cyrodiil lag but it also eliminates like %99 of the ways you could cheat in this game. Very clever solution, if only it didn't murder performance ESO would be perfect.

Infinite stats is absolutely a cheat. Being able to build around minimal regen, and then using a cheat to crank it up to a level that’s still hard to detect, is complete horseshat. This is probably the most common way that people cheat and avoid a ban for so long, due to how hard it is to detect. “Just heavy attack, noob”.

l2p

ShadowProc

Thogard wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

Many years ago I used to play Team Fortress Classic and I used to be really good at it if I say so myself, anyway I used to mingle with the best of the best, and there was some people who I just could not beat and I used to worship them as Gods at the game. Fast forward 10 years later and there was youtube vids of these so called Gods useing aimbots/wallhacks you name it, and I was like WTF!!!
My teenage nerd years had been ruined by finding out my friends and Hero's were actually cheaters. Its why I now find it comical when I see people quote "He's in my guild I've known him for ages he would never cheat". Unless you have been to the persons house and physically watched them play in person, then you have no actual real idea of who that player is.
I have a video of a player cheating in EU Sotha PC from about 3 weeks ago who's cheats still work as he has just got a new account and using said same cheat program still, and he is taking the *** with it just like the others did few years ago with the Ult spam. I have no doubt at all that quite a few of the "elite pro players" use the same sort of cheats but hide it well, and just cover it by sets and traits.

Denying that there is cheats in this game is just LOL worthy and that immortal duelling/1vXer hero you worship may just upload a video in 10 years time

...

I’ll flat out deny that sustain cheats, stat cheats, dmg enhancing cheats, ult regen cheats, able to use more than one ability per global cooldown cheat, etc exist in this game because all of those are stored server side and are not affected by the client.

Things that are client side are positioning based, hiding based, and blocking based. That’s pretty much it.

You know nothing Jon Snow.

technohic

Shadow-Fighter wrote: »

I actually prefer console for a lot of games because of this. It can happen still but requires a bit more effort and is rare. But I play this game on PC and I have even more rarely seen any real cheaters. Obviously there was CE at one point a few years ago, and now there is whatever that Russian video is selling so stuff has been out there, just not as much as people seem to think.

Someone last night/early this morning was saying to ignore some stamden because he is cheating. They had a weird name of just iiiiiiii111 or something like that so I could see it being a throwaway account so I thought I'd go check it out while i was on my stamblade. I opened on the guy and unloaded what I could and almost got him but he got LOS and healed up and came back at me. I kept trying to avoid his shalks but he kept using terrain to where it wasnt always easy and he got me below half so I would cloak and let my HOTs and TK do their thing and open on him again. This went back and forth for several minutes until he decided to take off when I cloaked again and I let him as we were not getting anywhere.

I am not a NB main or great at it so probably a really good 1 could have got the guy or maybe not. Just know for all people were saying, it was just a decent player.

Thogard

ShadowProc wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

Many years ago I used to play Team Fortress Classic and I used to be really good at it if I say so myself, anyway I used to mingle with the best of the best, and there was some people who I just could not beat and I used to worship them as Gods at the game. Fast forward 10 years later and there was youtube vids of these so called Gods useing aimbots/wallhacks you name it, and I was like WTF!!!
My teenage nerd years had been ruined by finding out my friends and Hero's were actually cheaters. Its why I now find it comical when I see people quote "He's in my guild I've known him for ages he would never cheat". Unless you have been to the persons house and physically watched them play in person, then you have no actual real idea of who that player is.
I have a video of a player cheating in EU Sotha PC from about 3 weeks ago who's cheats still work as he has just got a new account and using said same cheat program still, and he is taking the *** with it just like the others did few years ago with the Ult spam. I have no doubt at all that quite a few of the "elite pro players" use the same sort of cheats but hide it well, and just cover it by sets and traits.

Denying that there is cheats in this game is just LOL worthy and that immortal duelling/1vXer hero you worship may just upload a video in 10 years time

...

I’ll flat out deny that sustain cheats, stat cheats, dmg enhancing cheats, ult regen cheats, able to use more than one ability per global cooldown cheat, etc exist in this game because all of those are stored server side and are not affected by the client.

Things that are client side are positioning based, hiding based, and blocking based. That’s pretty much it.

You know nothing Jon Snow.

Well I know how to tell the difference between server side variables and client input variables, which sadly makes me more of an expert on this than 99% of the people posting here.

Mauz

Thogard wrote: »

Well I know how to tell the difference between server side variables and client input variables, which sadly makes me more of an expert on this than 99% of the people posting here.

And you know that because ZoS send you their data model? I didn't find a list which variables are stored client and server side and where they are computed and how. Only thing I found were ppl claiming certain group of character data is now stored/calculated server or client side. But that doesnt mean you know anything. Even if you had the data model you cant be sure whether this certain dev did even give a *** on it

Thogard

Mauz wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Well I know how to tell the difference between server side variables and client input variables, which sadly makes me more of an expert on this than 99% of the people posting here.

And you know that because ZoS send you their data model? I didn't find a list which variables are stored client and server side and where they are computed and how. Only thing I found were ppl claiming certain group of character data is now stored/calculated server or client side. But that doesnt mean you know anything. Even if you had the data model you cant be sure whether this certain dev did even give a *** on it

Here’s a fun way for you to find out:

Go to vivec during prime time

Try to change something

If it changes instantly it’s client side
If it takes 2 seconds or more to change then it’s server side.

I have over 2000 hours of recorded PvP from my stream. I have never seen anything even close to hacking or cheat engine. Closest thing would be a bunny hop macro which, again, is client side and position based.

What I have seen a lot of is bad players complaining about cheating that is actually impossible to do with the way the current game is set up. The flawed logic of the “cheating is possible you don’t know for sure that it isn’t” reminds me of the anti vaccination people who not only cant show proof to back them up but who refuse to look at basic evidence that contradicts their claims and also ignore the actual science behind it.

People would cheat if they could. ZOS has made most forms of that impossible. Bad players always need excuses though.