Is there “actually” cheating in PvP?

OdinForge

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Many of the players that over exaggerate about prolific cheating here, are the kinds of players that rage whisper you in-game when they lose.

Exploiting or abusing bugs will always happen, but people who resort to falsely accusing others of cheating/macroing/hacking tend to play poorly.

fair point, but also saying cheats never existed in this game, can be only the words of a cheater, or a new player, as this game definitely survived the cheatopia before.

I think any reasonable player (especially a PC gamer) understands that anything is possible. To say cheating never happened in ESO for example is silly, we all know about CE weekend right Dark Brotherhood. The reality is that anyone who frequently plays PC games online is frequently subjected to hacking, especially in small time games (like Dark Souls, Borderlands, many FPS games etc etc).

This typically isn't a problem for many MMO type games, because they take this into consideration from the start. This is something ZOS took two years to really figure out, but since they did I haven't seen an example of it.

There are ultimately two kinds of players in ESO. The kind that understand the concept that while anything is possible, you shouldn't make false accusations or assumptions. And the kind that no matter how much they love this game, will always over exaggerate what is possible as an excuse.

Turelus

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Many of the players that over exaggerate about prolific cheating here, are the kinds of players that rage whisper you in-game when they lose.

Exploiting or abusing bugs will always happen, but people who resort to falsely accusing others of cheating/macroing/hacking tend to play poorly.

fair point, but also saying cheats never existed in this game, can be only the words of a cheater, or a new player, as this game definitely survived the cheatopia before.

As I said before I am sure cheating happens but I think people over exaggerate how many people cheat.

I used to PvP with a number of people who would bang on and on about how some things were exploiting or cheating, trying to get my raids to mass report people for it. This is even after I could point them to a specific forum post by ZOS stating X was not cheating (normally this was around animation cancelling).

The issue is when people like that get it into their mind something isn't "fair" and is a cheat or exploit they then are normally the kind of people to go running around telling everyone that, which means more players who are not aware of the situation believe it and pass it on, repeat process etc.

This is clearly seen in the fact we STILL have people who say animation cancelling is an exploit/bug regardless of how many times ZOS have clearly stated it's not.

Other things spread this way are over performing skills/sets or tactics which are disliked

Datthaw

OdinForge wrote: »

Many of the players that over exaggerate about prolific cheating here, are the kinds of players that rage whisper you in-game when they lose.

Exploiting or abusing bugs will always happen, but people who resort to falsely accusing others of cheating/macroing/hacking tend to play poorly.

Lol I remember the first time I was accused of using macros. Playing in kyne of all places lol. Some dude starts flaming me accusing of macro use, at the time in on my 3rd toon ever made. I ask my pvp guild if macros existed in this game, we only have 5 buttons. Answer I got was "in someone accuses you of hacking you know you're doing something right"

OdinForge

Datthaw wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Many of the players that over exaggerate about prolific cheating here, are the kinds of players that rage whisper you in-game when they lose.

Exploiting or abusing bugs will always happen, but people who resort to falsely accusing others of cheating/macroing/hacking tend to play poorly.

Lol I remember the first time I was accused of using macros. Playing in kyne of all places lol. Some dude starts flaming me accusing of macro use, at the time in on my 3rd toon ever made. I ask my pvp guild if macros existed in this game, we only have 5 buttons. Answer I got was "in someone accuses you of hacking you know you're doing something right"

Which is ultimately true.

You have player a being accused of macroing after he or she defeats player b.

Player b never gets falsely accused of macroing, because player b is rather unsuccessful.

Player b comes to the forums to complain and falsely accuse player a, while at the same time over estimating their success.

When the reality is that player b is not successful enough to get the same type of rage whisper he or she sends others.

They are the worst kind of player, because they pretend to love the game and be above "cheating". But all they do is muddy the water and play the boy who cried wolf game.

DeadlyRecluse

There is almost certainly an amount of cheating going on.

It's also almost certainly a lower amount than some vocal individuals claim.


It also depends wildly on what you mean by cheating. Bug exploiting is rampant across all platforms (prominent examples include the old meteor fall damage bug, old camo hunter bug, old rearming trap bug, etc. etc.). One would think that "hacking" would be isolated to PC--it almost certainly happens to some degree, but it's hard to know for sure.

Players tend to accuse people of hacking when they see behavior they can't explain--use invis pots on a non-NB and eventually you'll get accused of hacking. That's an easy example of how a very simple, public, and relatively well-known mechanic creates unexpected behavior and some players jump to the default assumption that if they can't instantly understand what happened, it's gotta be hacking.

I've been accused of hacking when I was emperor. I even tried explaining emp buffs to the accuser, but he wasn't having it. He's a very strong player now, and we've laughed about it since then, but at the time he couldn't immediately understand what happened, so...HACKS.

Sergykid

a cheater who doesn't show out won't be caught. Two ults in two seconds is obvious and will result in a ban.

but i often find people who have infinite stamina and they don't even heavy attack. And i struggle to keep mine up during a 4-5 mins fight, and i'm also using resource poison.

they could just add 500 recovery, or 3k stamina. Who would notice?

kaorunandrak

Yes cheating happens, yes cheat engine still works, yes many of the past users who where on video cheating are back in game, yes there was a giant "cheatsplosion" that happened to shut people who said you can't cheat up. Not gonna link anything but there' plenty of documentation showcasing the past and current ways you can truly cheat in this game , there's even a tutorial on how to get unbanned with video and screen shot evidence. It's *** stupid to be honest.

That said if you like the game you will have to be like the rest of us and just deal with it until they actually employ better anticheat software, or remove a lot of things such as stats from client side thus keeping cheat engine from working. But yeah the guys who say cheating isn't a thing in this game anymore are either trolling, flat out lying to you(and themselves if they really believe what they are saying), or (and i mean this in the nicest way I can) are super *** naive and are living on a cloud raining gum drops and rainbows, as a simple google search will pull up all this information including videos and tutorials and places where you can get the tools of the trade.


Now after saying all that NOT EVERYONE CHEATS and sometimes you just get FUBARED by a better player and thats just something your gonna have to deal with.


TLDR: Yes cheating is a thing GOOGLE it and despair, Also not everyone cheats sometimes you just get rekt.

Kolache

If there isn't cheating in ESO it would have to be like the one online game ever that didn't have any.

I certainly don't notice anything terribly obvious but I'm not sure what terribly obvious would even look like in ESO lol. Can't die? Infinite resources? Crazy movement speed? Syncing issues? Aren't all of these things expected?

Marcus684

I see a lot fewer “hits like a truck/takes little damage/roll dodge forever” builds in Cyrodiil than I used to. You still come across one every once in awhile, but now you can see that the rest have had to sacrifice weapon damage to boost their mitigation and resource regen, and now rely on their ult for bursting down the players chasing them, which to me says that most 1vXers know that ZOS has the ability to (eventually) catch on to any funny business, and it’s not worth it if you want to keep playing the game.

Subversus

Datthaw wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Many of the players that over exaggerate about prolific cheating here, are the kinds of players that rage whisper you in-game when they lose.

Exploiting or abusing bugs will always happen, but people who resort to falsely accusing others of cheating/macroing/hacking tend to play poorly.

Lol I remember the first time I was accused of using macros. Playing in kyne of all places lol. Some dude starts flaming me accusing of macro use, at the time in on my 3rd toon ever made. I ask my pvp guild if macros existed in this game, we only have 5 buttons. Answer I got was "in someone accuses you of hacking you know you're doing something right"

When you get accused of cheats in a game is when you realize you got to "that" point (the point where you're actually MLG at the game).







I never got accused of cheats in ESO

Eirella

I'm sure there are some types of cheats in pvp, but the only time I have seen it was when the whole CE thing was exposed. However, I think most people who claim "cheats, macros, exploits, etc"are looking for something to blame their deaths on.

Starlight_Knight

I know a lot of self confessed macro users in PVP - so that's a kind of cheating,
Then i've seen some really dodgy stuff myself like people falling huge distances and taking no damage.

i know there were cheats / glitches about that you could get multiple set bonuses from armour pieces and things like that not sure if some of those are still around as some people are very suspicious still lol

im sure there are people who exploit and glitch and macro, but i haven't seen any obvious cheat-engine users for quite a long time now.
Good job as well cuz' rapid fire meteors weren't fun

Thogard

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

Then i've seen some really dodgy stuff myself like people falling huge distances and taking no damage.

That's just game mechanics. i can pull that off pretty reliably. If you bank off of an object before your character starts really falling then you won't take fall dmg.

NyassaV

Aside from shady addons it's just just macros

Most_Awesome

There's so many things people can do in this game due to the number of gears and race bonuses etc that unless you are completely blatant like the the Ult spam no one will ever know.

Up your shuffle dodge from 15% to 45% = Its rng bro
Up your resistances by 5k = I'm wearing Brass bro
Up your regens = I'm in bone pirate bro
Up your wpn damage = I'm in Alchemist bro
Up your speed = I use speed pots bro
Lower dodge cost = I'm in well fitted bro

etc.

Gilvoth

kaorunandrak wrote: »

Yes cheating happens, yes cheat engine still works, yes many of the past users who where on video cheating are back in game, yes there was a giant "cheatsplosion" that happened to shut people who said you can't cheat up. Not gonna link anything but there' plenty of documentation showcasing the past and current ways you can truly cheat in this game , there's even a tutorial on how to get unbanned with video and screen shot evidence. It's *** stupid to be honest.

That said if you like the game you will have to be like the rest of us and just deal with it until they actually employ better anticheat software, or remove a lot of things such as stats from client side thus keeping cheat engine from working. But yeah the guys who say cheating isn't a thing in this game anymore are either trolling, flat out lying to you(and themselves if they really believe what they are saying), or (and i mean this in the nicest way I can) are super *** naive and are living on a cloud raining gum drops and rainbows, as a simple google search will pull up all this information including videos and tutorials and places where you can get the tools of the trade.


Now after saying all that NOT EVERYONE CHEATS and sometimes you just get FUBARED by a better player and thats just something your gonna have to deal with.


TLDR: Yes cheating is a thing GOOGLE it and despair, Also not everyone cheats sometimes you just get rekt.

that is perfectly spoken, and it is the truth.

Minalan

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

kaorunandrak wrote: »

Yes cheating happens, yes cheat engine still works, yes many of the past users who where on video cheating are back in game, yes there was a giant "cheatsplosion" that happened to shut people who said you can't cheat up. Not gonna link anything but there' plenty of documentation showcasing the past and current ways you can truly cheat in this game , there's even a tutorial on how to get unbanned with video and screen shot evidence. It's *** stupid to be honest.

That said if you like the game you will have to be like the rest of us and just deal with it until they actually employ better anticheat software, or remove a lot of things such as stats from client side thus keeping cheat engine from working. But yeah the guys who say cheating isn't a thing in this game anymore are either trolling, flat out lying to you(and themselves if they really believe what they are saying), or (and i mean this in the nicest way I can) are super *** naive and are living on a cloud raining gum drops and rainbows, as a simple google search will pull up all this information including videos and tutorials and places where you can get the tools of the trade.


Now after saying all that NOT EVERYONE CHEATS and sometimes you just get FUBARED by a better player and thats just something your gonna have to deal with.


TLDR: Yes cheating is a thing GOOGLE it and despair, Also not everyone cheats sometimes you just get rekt.

that is perfectly spoken, and it is the truth.

Wow... We agree on something. Too many people forget the dual mundus hack, the hist bark cheat, people constantly self-ressing in IC after a PVP death, etc..

Cheating happens on PC, and who knows what exploits are still out there that ZOS hasn’t fixed. You still see people do fishy things in YouTube videos like ‘Bunny hopping’ immediately out of melee execute range when injured, etc.

Subversus

Most_Awesome wrote: »

There's so many things people can do in this game due to the number of gears and race bonuses etc that unless you are completely blatant like the the Ult spam no one will ever know.

Up your shuffle dodge from 15% to 45% = Its rng bro
Up your resistances by 5k = I'm wearing Brass bro
Up your regens = I'm in bone pirate bro
Up your wpn damage = I'm in Alchemist bro
Up your speed = I use speed pots bro
Lower dodge cost = I'm in well fitted bro

etc.

I swear to god there is something dodgy about evasion.

Like I know that major evasion is NOT 15%, that it is actually 30% dodge chance (if you miss the light attack your follow up weaved attack misses too cause mechanics), but there are some people that are just constantly lucky man.

Like *** me there's this guy that I fight and he uses shuffle and he legit feels like he has a 50%+ dodge chance on him (not a stamden btw). Like I was spamming cripple on him once and he dodged (I kid you not) 6 weaves in a row. After the 3rd dodge I just gave up the duel and knowingly started counting just for the lulz.

Major evasion HAS to go. You can't have a game like ESO be rng based, especially not with all the dodge monkey stamblades around.

Dredlord

Vaoh wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Some players are just exceptionally good at PvP.

So have you actually experienced this?

Yep, and the obvious conclusion I have come to is some of these ppl are using mouse and keyboard on console.

I play both ps4 and pc and I could beat my ps4 self every time without fail with my pc self. Also a lot of macros are showing up on console as of last patch or two. Same reason/product is why...

How would you know that ppl are using mouse/keyboard and by extension, according to you, even macros? I don’t buy it tbh. Also macros would fail you in lag and not support you nearly as much as true muscle memory would during fast-paced combat soooo.... that sounds like a disadvantage to me.

Also mouse/keyboard doesn’t benefit you much at all over a controller in this game. In FPS games sure, but never in ESO. I know many PC players purposely hook up controllers to play. It’s all preference. These sort of accusations kinda just sound to me like things ppl scream when they get 1vXed

Do you play mouse and keyboard or controller?

How fast can you do a snap 180 after running through an enemy on controller?

How fast and reliably can you do it on m/k?

It seems you are guessing and theorycrafting...

I play on both and its just the way it is, thanks for coming out though.

Dredlord

Most_Awesome wrote: »

There's so many things people can do in this game due to the number of gears and race bonuses etc that unless you are completely blatant like the the Ult spam no one will ever know.

Up your shuffle dodge from 15% to 45% = Its rng bro
Up your resistances by 5k = I'm wearing Brass bro
Up your regens = I'm in bone pirate bro
Up your wpn damage = I'm in Alchemist bro
Up your speed = I use speed pots bro
Lower dodge cost = I'm in well fitted bro

etc.

Exactly, and is why i always ask ppl sets so I can call buildschit when their build cant pull off the things seen in recaps and damage, sustain, tankiness in battle without "help"...

It's almost always the clowns that send 1v1 requests after they die to me in cyro.

Marabornwingrion

Yeah. Jumping on keep walls by DKs, for example.

Aedaryl

Astrid_V wrote: »

Yeah. Jumping on keep walls by DKs, for example.

Jumping on keep walls is exploiting, not cheating.

Jumping on keep walls isn't something DK related, every one can do it.

Derra

Sergykid wrote: »

a cheater who doesn't show out won't be caught. Two ults in two seconds is obvious and will result in a ban.

but i often find people who have infinite stamina and they don't even heavy attack. And i struggle to keep mine up during a 4-5 mins fight, and i'm also using resource poison.

they could just add 500 recovery, or 3k stamina. Who would notice?

Who can prove it though? How would you know the other player does not have a better build or plays better than you?
What you do is muddy the waters creating an athmosphere where bad and mediocre players will choose to attribute their own shortcomings to unfair play by their opponents.
Much better for their ego anyways.

I´ve basically never met people (apart from overload/doublemundus exploits) that i suspected of cheating. Yet i win more than 90%+ of my 1v1s/duels and usually have 50+: kill death when soloing in cyrodiil.
And ofc i get accused of cheating by players that simply don´t understand the game.

Subversus wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

There's so many things people can do in this game due to the number of gears and race bonuses etc that unless you are completely blatant like the the Ult spam no one will ever know.

Up your shuffle dodge from 15% to 45% = Its rng bro
Up your resistances by 5k = I'm wearing Brass bro
Up your regens = I'm in bone pirate bro
Up your wpn damage = I'm in Alchemist bro
Up your speed = I use speed pots bro
Lower dodge cost = I'm in well fitted bro

etc.

I swear to god there is something dodgy about evasion.

Like I know that major evasion is NOT 15%, that it is actually 30% dodge chance (if you miss the light attack your follow up weaved attack misses too cause mechanics), but there are some people that are just constantly lucky man.

Like *** me there's this guy that I fight and he uses shuffle and he legit feels like he has a 50%+ dodge chance on him (not a stamden btw). Like I was spamming cripple on him once and he dodged (I kid you not) 6 weaves in a row. After the 3rd dodge I just gave up the duel and knowingly started counting just for the lulz.

Major evasion HAS to go. You can't have a game like ESO be rng based, especially not with all the dodge monkey stamblades around.

AT this point rolldodge animation is bugged in certain skillscenarios and does only show a running char.

Rolldodge dodgewindow is desynced from the actual animation you see on your screen. That´s also the reason why certain attacks seem to bypass dodge (incap, assassins blade) bc they get prioritized over heal/dodge from the server.

GreenhaloX

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

I play on PS4, so I imagine if there WERE cheating, it’d be more prevalent on PC. Also, I’ve never witnessed anything I’d consider “cheating.” Some players are just exceptionally good at PvP.

But I’ve been playing I’m Cyrodil quite a bit lately, and still hear the same “oh that guy’s cheating!” These aren’t even said in jest, but legitimate absolute beliefs that the other player is cheating (which is of course why they died).

So...is this actually real? Do people actually have ways to cheat in the game?

Note: I’m not including exploits.

So have you actually experienced this?

Yeah, man, been instances on PS4 where a soloing dude/toon has taken out 6, 8, 10 and more toons/players all by himself. When one can mitigate such barrage of incoming damages from 6 or more toons/players, yet, able to dish out the damages enough to knock out all the others; well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist here. You play long enough and you'll know who those are, and it's better to avoid them or ensure you have at least 8-10 with you going at him, if you are so inclined. I'm certain it can be more prevalent in PC; however, as you should be aware, console or PS4, is definitely not immune to some kind of manipulation. Heck, look at all those damn bots farming whatever throughout the map.

Thogard

GreenhaloX wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

I play on PS4, so I imagine if there WERE cheating, it’d be more prevalent on PC. Also, I’ve never witnessed anything I’d consider “cheating.” Some players are just exceptionally good at PvP.

But I’ve been playing I’m Cyrodil quite a bit lately, and still hear the same “oh that guy’s cheating!” These aren’t even said in jest, but legitimate absolute beliefs that the other player is cheating (which is of course why they died).

So...is this actually real? Do people actually have ways to cheat in the game?

Note: I’m not including exploits.

So have you actually experienced this?

Yeah, man, been instances on PS4 where a soloing dude/toon has taken out 6, 8, 10 and more toons/players all by himself. When one can mitigate such barrage of incoming damages from 6 or more toons/players, yet, able to dish out the damages enough to knock out all the others; well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist here. You play long enough and you'll know who those are, and it's better to avoid them or ensure you have at least 8-10 with you going at him, if you are so inclined. I'm certain it can be more prevalent in PC; however, as you should be aware, console or PS4, is definitely not immune to some kind of manipulation. Heck, look at all those damn bots farming whatever throughout the map.

Yeah so this is a perfect example of potato logic.

I won a 1v9, so therefore I must be cheating. Doesn’t matter that four of the 9 were casters that didn’t recast dmg shields and got one-rounded, that the healer and two tanks didn’t do any dmg at all, and that the dps didn’t use speed pots to be able to catch me while kiting.

Autumnhart

Yes. And there are five thousand times more bugs and blissfully ignorant players mistaking tech for magic.

Turelus

Thogard wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

I play on PS4, so I imagine if there WERE cheating, it’d be more prevalent on PC. Also, I’ve never witnessed anything I’d consider “cheating.” Some players are just exceptionally good at PvP.

But I’ve been playing I’m Cyrodil quite a bit lately, and still hear the same “oh that guy’s cheating!” These aren’t even said in jest, but legitimate absolute beliefs that the other player is cheating (which is of course why they died).

So...is this actually real? Do people actually have ways to cheat in the game?

Note: I’m not including exploits.

So have you actually experienced this?

Yeah, man, been instances on PS4 where a soloing dude/toon has taken out 6, 8, 10 and more toons/players all by himself. When one can mitigate such barrage of incoming damages from 6 or more toons/players, yet, able to dish out the damages enough to knock out all the others; well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist here. You play long enough and you'll know who those are, and it's better to avoid them or ensure you have at least 8-10 with you going at him, if you are so inclined. I'm certain it can be more prevalent in PC; however, as you should be aware, console or PS4, is definitely not immune to some kind of manipulation. Heck, look at all those damn bots farming whatever throughout the map.

Yeah so this is a perfect example of potato logic.

I won a 1v9, so therefore I must be cheating. Doesn’t matter that four of the 9 were casters that didn’t recast dmg shields and got one-rounded, that the healer and two tanks didn’t do any dmg at all, and that the dps didn’t use speed pots to be able to catch me while kiting.

This right here.

There are some fantastic 1vX players in ESO. They're good because they know the mechanics, know the best skills/builds for that patch, have the player knowledge and skill to mitigate the most damage whilst applying their own.
You can argue that ESO doesn't have very good game balance if someone can down nine people whilst not getting a scratch, but it doesn't mean everyone who can do it cheats.

By claiming people who can are cheaters again fits in with what I was saying previously about people spreading false information based on incorrect conclusions.

Sergykid

insert gear inspection, it will help newbies and also spot cheaters

Derra

Sergykid wrote: »

insert gear inspection, it will help newbies and also spot cheaters

All that will do is make players scream even louder:"I have the same gear as you how can you trash me like that - CHEATER"

Because the alternative would be admitting they´re not as competent as they wish they´d be.

BrockofPercival

Derra wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

insert gear inspection, it will help newbies and also spot cheaters

All that will do is make players scream even louder:"I have the same gear as you how can you trash me like that - CHEATER"

Because the alternative would be admitting they´re not as competent as they wish they´d be.

Afraid to have your gear looked at? Because it would actually show players either that they need to get better, need to get those sets or that the person might be using a 'hidden feature'/exploiting/or outright cheating.

How on earth does something simple like that not help? Oh right, it doesn't help the elitists who figured out something 'special' and it doesn't help the cheaters.

I bet you know something is broken and just don't want others to know about it. It is not 'cheating', just another one of 'those ESO things'. The kind of things that is driving this MMO into ever decreasing numbers. I was kinda shocked that all the PvP instances were not all packed. Then I got to really know the game and that explained it all. Basically, it really doesn't work with all the stuff that doesn't work 'as intended', stuff that can be outright abused, how poorly it performs and how readily the client can be hacked.

I personally enjoy competitive PvP. ESO does not encourage that at all. The players do not encourage that. And thus, ESO PvP is doomed. This MMO is pretty much done far as PvP goes. Many better options releasing soon. Even WoW vanilla will be a much better PvP choice over this title (good classes, good pvp, and open world pvp, WoW was fun during the first 2 years), let alone the nice upcoming PvP oriented MMOs (can't wait for a couple of em to launch and to try them in beta). Add in that ESO devs have switched to just PvE development and you can hear death knell.

Obviously vivec will continue for a while longer but all the others are dying off fast. The arenas are ok but with such whacky balance and extremes, they are not all that enjoyable. You'd think there would be many fun builds but there are so few effective ones and now with Zaan, oh man Zaan, lol.

It is what it is. I would not take any of this game seriously because it is fundamentally broken in many places. Just fool around and enjoy what you can and move on. Some of it is done very well but it is really a quest/PvE engine forced into an online MMO (what I feared and why I didn't try it until last Fall) and it really shows.