Is there “actually” cheating in PvP?

ErMurazor

So many even "experienced" players in PvP who played for many years doing the same thing over and over and therefor lack the deeper knowledge of how the game works call out ppl for being cheaters when they infact just use the games mechanics to its fullest.

Next time someone beat you easily and your autoresponse is cheaterscum take a deep breath, swallow your pride and start talking with the "cheater". And more times than not you will see that on the other side is a player like yourself that just use the game more effectively than you. Ask about his build, his tacticts, cps, passives use and so on. And you will become a more knowledgable player yourself.

Prospero_ESO

Thogard wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

ESO PC stores data client side, there are 3rd party tools to manipulate this data, ZoS does not seem to be able to detect these tools.

Why shouldnt there be cheating?

No, it doesn’t.

BS, of course there are things stored in client side memory. Otherwise this whole cheatengine thing wouldn´t have gone off. And of course there is cheating in this game, like in any other mmo. I mean even a few of these twitch rockstars have been banned for doing it.

dsalter

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

ESO PC stores data client side, there are 3rd party tools to manipulate this data, ZoS does not seem to be able to detect these tools.

Why shouldnt there be cheating?

No, it doesn’t.

BS, of course there are things stored in client side memory. Otherwise this whole cheatengine thing wouldn´t have gone off. And of course there is cheating in this game, like in any other mmo. I mean even a few of these twitch rockstars have been banned for doing it.

not only that but what if they are only small buffing themselves rather than the extream that were once spotted?
what if all this time many of the "best" have been giving themselves 5-10% bonus stats but because its not huge the system never pick up on it?

when people blew open CE was being used for quite some time zeni threw in a detection, but what if its only picking up large amounts and not every tiny tweak?

rfennell_ESO

If CE doesn't work and there is no cheating... well, why did a well known streamer crash to desktop revealing CE running and then get banned for "being too generous and helping little children" a couple weeks later?

It's somewhat obvious is you play on no CP as to who uses it. Without CP to muddy the waters it's a lot easier seeing who is "achieving" on the back of 3rd party apps.

*hint* you don't have to look far and wide, they come right to these threads and sprout off with nonsense and l2p get gud crap. Some of them regularly twitch and post videos, but when you actually see them in game it's dodge dodge dodge miss miss miss and them running at sprint speed, blocking anything they don't passively avoid by being awesome and hitting like they have 0 sustain on their gear while not running out of resources ever.

Thogard

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

ESO PC stores data client side, there are 3rd party tools to manipulate this data, ZoS does not seem to be able to detect these tools.

Why shouldnt there be cheating?

No, it doesn’t.

BS, of course there are things stored in client side memory. Otherwise this whole cheatengine thing wouldn´t have gone off. And of course there is cheating in this game, like in any other mmo. I mean even a few of these twitch rockstars have been banned for doing it.

Everything stored client side was switched to server-side after meteor-spam weekend.

The one variable that is still stored client side is your position / movement.

visionality

Most of what people call cheating or macro-using in PVP is just ignorance on other classes' skills and an unfortunate amount of lag.

BUT there are definitely hard-core cheaters in ESO. And by hard-core cheaters I mean people that have hacked the game to circumvent damage events, movement restrictions or regen/dps/resistance limitations. I'm very careful to call somone a cheater - if I see someone who's gaming behaviour seems very fishy, I record his playstyle for a bit and analyze it later. If I still dont understand what he's doing, I start asking friends and sending the vids around. If nobody has an answer to that, I ask the guy directly how he's managing.

Sometimes people come up with surprising explanations. Sometimes they openly admit to having hacked the game. Most times they just start explaining away their never-CC / infinite healing / super-resistance+dps+regen with a potion that does NOT cover what they do. And very often they play bullshittily bad for 2-3 days after ZOS uploaded a new patch because their hacks dont work properly anymore and they havent fount the time or clue to fix it.

rfennell_ESO

Thogard wrote: »

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

ESO PC stores data client side, there are 3rd party tools to manipulate this data, ZoS does not seem to be able to detect these tools.

Why shouldnt there be cheating?

No, it doesn’t.

BS, of course there are things stored in client side memory. Otherwise this whole cheatengine thing wouldn´t have gone off. And of course there is cheating in this game, like in any other mmo. I mean even a few of these twitch rockstars have been banned for doing it.

Everything stored client side was switched to server-side after meteor-spam weekend.

The one variable that is still stored client side is your position / movement.

I have my doubts about the veracity of "everything stored client side was switched to server-side".

However, I don't think you or I actually know.

There have been some videos (now gone and not up for long) that showed CE/memory hacking in use. Speeded animations (including oddly the flora and fauna animations speeds as well), increased stats and movement speed. This was after the client->server side changes that were made.

I don't know, but many people claiming how things aren't possible don't actually know either.

Thogard

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

ESO PC stores data client side, there are 3rd party tools to manipulate this data, ZoS does not seem to be able to detect these tools.

Why shouldnt there be cheating?

No, it doesn’t.

BS, of course there are things stored in client side memory. Otherwise this whole cheatengine thing wouldn´t have gone off. And of course there is cheating in this game, like in any other mmo. I mean even a few of these twitch rockstars have been banned for doing it.

Everything stored client side was switched to server-side after meteor-spam weekend.

The one variable that is still stored client side is your position / movement.

I have my doubts about the veracity of "everything stored client side was switched to server-side".

However, I don't think you or I actually know.

There have been some videos (now gone and not up for long) that showed CE/memory hacking in use. Speeded animations (including oddly the flora and fauna animations speeds as well), increased stats and movement speed. This was after the client->server side changes that were made.

I don't know, but many people claiming how things aren't possible don't actually know either.

Yes, we do know. Anything client side has no latency IE moving. Go PvP some.

Next time your connection drops but you stay in game, try to swap your gear. Try to hit rally to buff your stats... or just see if you get that regen tic every 2s.

You can’t.

This isn’t something that’s debatable. It’s a fact. There has not been a video posted in the last two years that shows CE use. The one from three days ago was deleted because I showed the OP of that video that he didn’t know what he was talking about and he was embarrassed by it. (It was deleted from his YouTube channel, not the boards).

If memory hacking is being done, the only mechanism that would be possible would be your movement / location. But that data is sent to the server via UDP packets, not TCP like everything else. UDP packets are harder to intercept and modify than TCP but I’m not going to say that it isn’t possible.

BrockofPercival

Thogard wrote: »

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

ESO PC stores data client side, there are 3rd party tools to manipulate this data, ZoS does not seem to be able to detect these tools.

Why shouldnt there be cheating?

No, it doesn’t.

BS, of course there are things stored in client side memory. Otherwise this whole cheatengine thing wouldn´t have gone off. And of course there is cheating in this game, like in any other mmo. I mean even a few of these twitch rockstars have been banned for doing it.

Everything stored client side was switched to server-side after meteor-spam weekend.

The one variable that is still stored client side is your position / movement.

I will not explain how but you can still fool the system server side and get huge boosts, not how it used to be, its trickier and not as reliable but it is there. It should be detectable but I don't believe they check for it.

It all has to do with what the server will accept from the client. Many past MMOs have had similar flaws in their netcode/server code. ESO has really poor protocols that don't seem to check anything. I haven't seen such poorly implemented code since the early days of MMOs. They seem to assume all gamers are 'nice and friendly'. Like how they originally stored a lot of important stuff client side, that shows the level of their naivety on this matter.

---

In the end it is really annoying. I'd love it if all gaming companies could somehow demand proper identification for any account. Then if caught cheating, all accounts get suspended or banned. Maybe someday, but it aint today.

IZZEFlameLash

I think to say that cheating doesn't exist is as ignorant as saying everyone who killed someone is a cheat. It is just the nature of competition. Some people always seek to "supplement" their skills or one up people via cheating. And those people can very much claim that they are actually that skilled and such. This game being so broken makes it really difficult to tell cheating. I do not believe it is prolific but I also do think some forms of cheating still exists. I won't ever know what goes on the other side unless it is blatantly obvious though. Cheating will always exist and it is even made apparent in real life. Because some will always cheat. So, yeah... I feel it is game being such a broken alpha state game.

Dredlord

IZZESparkling wrote: »

I think to say that cheating doesn't exist is as ignorant as saying everyone who killed someone is a cheat. It is just the nature of competition. Some people always seek to "supplement" their skills or one up people via cheating. And those people can very much claim that they are actually that skilled and such. This game being so broken makes it really difficult to tell cheating. I do not believe it is prolific but I also do think some forms of cheating still exists. I won't ever know what goes on the other side unless it is blatantly obvious though. Cheating will always exist and it is even made apparent in real life. Because some will always cheat. So, yeah... I feel it is game being such a broken alpha state game.

Agreed, and it raises suspicion when someone so vehemently argues cheating is impossible when that clearly is not the case.

Cheating in this game mainly happens at the elite levels, anyone else doesn’t give a *** about the game enough to go through the trouble to cheat.

ESO is one of the easiest games to cheat at, people will leave in droves the moment there is something comparable out, probably won’t be in 2018 though.

ZOS is really shooting themselves in the foot with their approach to pvp, they almost appear to be trying to build animosity in the community towards the company. 4 years of cheating, server lag, exploits, new bugs every patch, poor communication....

IZZEFlameLash

Yeah, just that just like how better players exist, so will cheaters as well. There are plenty of good players like Rhage. And there are people who are out there to exploit/cheat also. And ESO's brokenness does not help to minimize the good players getting cheater accusations.

Gilvoth

Skander wrote: »

Addons=cheating

unfortunately in the end that is the truth ^
almost 98% of the Add-ons are just Great and awesome for us, but the problem is that 2% that are working cheats because they have access to the game.

Gilvoth

dsalter wrote: »

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

ESO PC stores data client side, there are 3rd party tools to manipulate this data, ZoS does not seem to be able to detect these tools.

Why shouldnt there be cheating?

No, it doesn’t.

BS, of course there are things stored in client side memory. Otherwise this whole cheatengine thing wouldn´t have gone off. And of course there is cheating in this game, like in any other mmo. I mean even a few of these twitch rockstars have been banned for doing it.

not only that but what if they are only small buffing themselves rather than the extream that were once spotted?
what if all this time many of the "best" have been giving themselves 5-10% bonus stats but because its not huge the system never pick up on it?

when people blew open CE was being used for quite some time zeni threw in a detection, but what if its only picking up large amounts and not every tiny tweak?

that has been the truth all along, it is sadd reality but it is the truth.

IZZEFlameLash

Oh gawd... not the addon = cheating again... I thought that was well established with ZOS's support.

Malamar1229

OdinForge wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Many of the players that over exaggerate about prolific cheating here, are the kinds of players that rage whisper you in-game when they lose.

Exploiting or abusing bugs will always happen, but people who resort to falsely accusing others of cheating/macroing/hacking tend to play poorly.

Lol I remember the first time I was accused of using macros. Playing in kyne of all places lol. Some dude starts flaming me accusing of macro use, at the time in on my 3rd toon ever made. I ask my pvp guild if macros existed in this game, we only have 5 buttons. Answer I got was "in someone accuses you of hacking you know you're doing something right"

Which is ultimately true.

You have player a being accused of macroing after he or she defeats player b.

Player b never gets falsely accused of macroing, because player b is rather unsuccessful.

Player b comes to the forums to complain and falsely accuse player a, while at the same time over estimating their success.

When the reality is that player b is not successful enough to get the same type of rage whisper he or she sends others.

They are the worst kind of player, because they pretend to love the game and be above "cheating". But all they do is muddy the water and play the boy who cried wolf game.

There's a certain DC tax collector on PC NA who constantly calls me a ward macro'ing hacking pos every time I kill him on any of his toons. In fact, I have found there are a lot of DC toons like that...of all 3 faction toons I play, the most whispers come from DC.

I don't even know how to respond, other than I am too dumb to even know how to macro.

Malamar1229

Sergykid wrote: »

insert gear inspection, it will help newbies and also spot cheaters

Yeah but the privacy is nice too. Sometimes i dont want to share my setups

Malamar1229

Thogard wrote: »

I got accused of using a lag-hack and a hit box reduction hack today by a guy in the zerg my 3 man was farming outside Nikel.

Never mind that this was prime time on Vivec... I had to have been using a lag hack, according to him.

The fact you play on that cesspool of a campaign in the first place means youre bad
For the first time in months I went into vivec and using streak I could see the lightning animation but my character stood in place. I also got accused of using speed and location hacks. Guess client side I couldn't see myself streak yet they could? Never again, that campaign is unplayable.

Thogard

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I got accused of using a lag-hack and a hit box reduction hack today by a guy in the zerg my 3 man was farming outside Nikel.

Never mind that this was prime time on Vivec... I had to have been using a lag hack, according to him.

The fact you play on that cesspool of a campaign in the first place means youre bad
For the first time in months I went into vivec and using streak I could see the lightning animation but my character stood in place. I also got accused of using speed and location hacks. Guess client side I couldn't see myself streak yet they could? Never again, that campaign is unplayable.

Ugh. Yeah... every once in a while I get dragged there against my will.

SmellyUnlimited

For the first time ever, I was actually accused of cheating. This happened just yesterday.

Sewers in IC. Fighting a 1v1 with a blue that was camping red’s entrance. It was a really good fight actually. Toward the end, though, I realized everything was just standing still. I saw him standing next to me, but nothing was happening. I had to close app and reopen, and when I did I was still alive (no tel var lost) but stuck in some sort of “invisible cube.”

Couldn’t get out, and had to do eventually do “Get me unstuck” (which subsequently took my tel var anyway lol). Guy messaged me saying “nice hack.”

No idea what caused it. Logic points to the all-time nexus of game faults - lag. Yet I was still accused of cheating. See how easy it is to accuse people of cheating without any sort of proof?

This is how the Salem witch trials began. People crying foul at things they just didn’t understand. Much easier to cast blame on an individual than attempting to think of a legitimate reason for why something occurs.

SmellyUnlimited

On something quick on the “inspect gear” proposal: 100% agree it should be implemented.

The ‘novel gear’ argument is moot. Your set-up remains novel regardless, and it gives people the opportunity to learn the effects of certain gear in action, and in-turn will likely lead to more competitive PvP (or even PvE to see how they can optimize).

Their inspecting you doesn’t in any way affect your ability to play or use that set-up, and you might find yourself on the opposite end wanting to learn more about someone else’s setup. It would also be nice during a dps test to see that someone is rocking TFS and Lover Mundus, and their test is ineffectual.

Waffennacht

I'm more curious about how much "fake" cheating goes on?

IZZEFlameLash

Tbh, inspect gear function might actually help proving that people are innocent also instead of getting swept up in cheatccusation witchhunt.

Dredlord

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm more curious about how much "fake" cheating goes on?

Ever wonder why there are no german comedians?

kaorunandrak

Dredlord wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm more curious about how much "fake" cheating goes on?

Ever wonder why there are no german comedians?

cause they killed all the funny people?

I've seen that robin williams interview too >.< lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF2P_LuEF80

Drachenfier

I don't know what it is, but last night there was a guy in a battleground that kept chaining dizzying swings together...he'd hit you with one, and the second would land before you could even break free, and he did it repeatedly. Every death screen would read like

Dizzying swing
Dizzying swing
Executioner
Dizzying Swing
Dizzying Swing

I whispered him and asked how he was doing that and he said something about lag then immediately logged off.

Zaldan

LOL, I still remember all the responses to posts about players cheating in pvp before the Cheat Engine meteor storm vids, they were 99% L2P or lag as there wasn't any cheating in eso, until ZO$ improves their QA dramatically and improves their bug fixing turn around time it's difficult to say whether there's cheating going on or just bad design/bugs

rimmidimdim

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

For the first time ever, I was actually accused of cheating. This happened just yesterday.

Sewers in IC. Fighting a 1v1 with a blue that was camping red’s entrance. It was a really good fight actually. Toward the end, though, I realized everything was just standing still. I saw him standing next to me, but nothing was happening. I had to close app and reopen, and when I did I was still alive (no tel var lost) but stuck in some sort of “invisible cube.”

Couldn’t get out, and had to do eventually do “Get me unstuck” (which subsequently took my tel var anyway lol). Guy messaged me saying “nice hack.”

No idea what caused it. Logic points to the all-time nexus of game faults - lag. Yet I was still accused of cheating. See how easy it is to accuse people of cheating without any sort of proof?

This is how the Salem witch trials began. People crying foul at things they just didn’t understand. Much easier to cast blame on an individual than attempting to think of a legitimate reason for why something occurs.

Yes lag happens all the time. You are right, I killed an EP Sunday I think he just stopped moving, then he wispers me what happened, I told him. But I had no lag so I would imagine it was his isp or cpu ect. Poor guy, wait this happens to me all the time too! Ya screw him.

Using witch hunting is a poor example, it happened because people where high on LSD. From ergot in thier bread. They claimed too see Thier sister flying because they really saw it. In thier poison filled cerebrums. I don't think everyone in the forums or in game is as high as Nick Nolte.

Cheating exists however. I don't see how it cannot.

DosPanchos

So many stinky players claim cheating took place if they get beat.

SmellyUnlimited

rimmidimdim wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

For the first time ever, I was actually accused of cheating. This happened just yesterday.

Sewers in IC. Fighting a 1v1 with a blue that was camping red’s entrance. It was a really good fight actually. Toward the end, though, I realized everything was just standing still. I saw him standing next to me, but nothing was happening. I had to close app and reopen, and when I did I was still alive (no tel var lost) but stuck in some sort of “invisible cube.”

Couldn’t get out, and had to do eventually do “Get me unstuck” (which subsequently took my tel var anyway lol). Guy messaged me saying “nice hack.”

No idea what caused it. Logic points to the all-time nexus of game faults - lag. Yet I was still accused of cheating. See how easy it is to accuse people of cheating without any sort of proof?

This is how the Salem witch trials began. People crying foul at things they just didn’t understand. Much easier to cast blame on an individual than attempting to think of a legitimate reason for why something occurs.

Yes lag happens all the time. You are right, I killed an EP Sunday I think he just stopped moving, then he wispers me what happened, I told him. But I had no lag so I would imagine it was his isp or cpu ect. Poor guy, wait this happens to me all the time too! Ya screw him.

Using witch hunting is a poor example, it happened because people where high on LSD. From ergot in thier bread. They claimed too see Thier sister flying because they really saw it. In thier poison filled cerebrums. I don't think everyone in the forums or in game is as high as Nick Nolte.

Cheating exists however. I don't see how it cannot.

The real facts that may have been the cause behind the witch trials isn’t my point (and ergot is still conjecture), it’s the reasoning that went in to them. They blamed witches for things they couldn’t explain. Just as many of life’s coincidences are seen as provedence, so too are many things caused by the game seen as cheating.

I mean, the ESO forums are filled with countless examples of how bad the lag is (especially in Cyrodil), that’s why I’m so surprised cheating is blamed for almost anything. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but that given the wealth of other reasons why something might be so, it’s strange to assume the least likely alternative.