Premade groups are ruining battlegrounds...

jcm2606

Yes

Anethum wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

4 players with previously prepared voice-coordinated teamfunctions
vs
4 or often 3 randoms, who may be strong, but without any support guys in team...this is just ridiculous.

there is no balance and can't be until random ones can't choose if they wan't or not to play without premade ones there.
no reason to play battlegrounds until this will be implemented - no challenge, no competition, to go solo there it's like to go with knifes against guys with rifles and transmitters.
Also what should feel healthy person equipped with gun vs opponent with knife only.
The goal here is interesting fight and challenge, not the win itself

@ZOS_Wrobel mmr only system dosn't provide expected balance. It should be also choice for players to fight or not vs organized groups in battlegrounds. Quality of life..

Alas Wrobel doesn’t work here anymore

what u mean? he's fired? when? who's responcible for fighting system now?

Brian Wheeler, the former PVP lead before this, is now the combat lead. Heard good things about him, how he had some great ideas for PVP but couldn't do them due to the combat team. Hopefully this will lead to good changes in the future.

max_only

Yes

Anethum wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

4 players with previously prepared voice-coordinated teamfunctions
vs
4 or often 3 randoms, who may be strong, but without any support guys in team...this is just ridiculous.

there is no balance and can't be until random ones can't choose if they wan't or not to play without premade ones there.
no reason to play battlegrounds until this will be implemented - no challenge, no competition, to go solo there it's like to go with knifes against guys with rifles and transmitters.
Also what should feel healthy person equipped with gun vs opponent with knife only.
The goal here is interesting fight and challenge, not the win itself

@ZOS_Wrobel mmr only system dosn't provide expected balance. It should be also choice for players to fight or not vs organized groups in battlegrounds. Quality of life..

Alas Wrobel doesn’t work here anymore

what u mean? he's fired? when? who's responcible for fighting system now?

@Anethum https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453748/combat-team-news-and-updates/p1

brandonv516

Same premade 5 times in a row. Stuck through it but damn if it gets stale/predictable/boring.

Fun times!

Seraphayel

Yes

Again, fighting a premade group once or twice is no problem. But when they're farming you the whole evening it becomes a chore and really turns you away from doing battlegrounds.

brandonv516 wrote: »

Same premade 5 times in a row. Stuck through it but damn if it gets stale/predictable/boring.

Fun times!

Honestly not even premade groups should enjoy this. It's like fighting unarmed kids as an adult armed with a machine gun.

brandonv516

Seraphayel wrote: »

Again, fighting a premade group once or twice is no problem. But when they're farming you the whole evening it becomes a chore and really turns you away from doing battlegrounds.

brandonv516 wrote: »

Same premade 5 times in a row. Stuck through it but damn if it gets stale/predictable/boring.

Fun times!

Honestly not even premade groups should enjoy this. It's like fighting unarmed kids as an adult armed with a machine gun.

Yeah I can't blame them for queuing up if it's guaranteed and steady AP.

When they t-bag though after 5 matches of sheer domination it really just displays that despite their talent in a video game, they are quite terrible people in real life.

Cinbri

jcm2606 wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

4 players with previously prepared voice-coordinated teamfunctions
vs
4 or often 3 randoms, who may be strong, but without any support guys in team...this is just ridiculous.

there is no balance and can't be until random ones can't choose if they wan't or not to play without premade ones there.
no reason to play battlegrounds until this will be implemented - no challenge, no competition, to go solo there it's like to go with knifes against guys with rifles and transmitters.
Also what should feel healthy person equipped with gun vs opponent with knife only.
The goal here is interesting fight and challenge, not the win itself

@ZOS_Wrobel mmr only system dosn't provide expected balance. It should be also choice for players to fight or not vs organized groups in battlegrounds. Quality of life..

Alas Wrobel doesn’t work here anymore

what u mean? he's fired? when? who's responcible for fighting system now?

Brian Wheeler, the former PVP lead before this, is now the combat lead. Heard good things about him, how he had some great ideas for PVP but couldn't do them due to the combat team. Hopefully this will lead to good changes in the future.

Well, I hope so because battlegrounds in current state are not enjoyable at all. Even lagodiil feels better.

Anethum

Yes

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

4 players with previously prepared voice-coordinated teamfunctions
vs
4 or often 3 randoms, who may be strong, but without any support guys in team...this is just ridiculous.

there is no balance and can't be until random ones can't choose if they wan't or not to play without premade ones there.
no reason to play battlegrounds until this will be implemented - no challenge, no competition, to go solo there it's like to go with knifes against guys with rifles and transmitters.
Also what should feel healthy person equipped with gun vs opponent with knife only.
The goal here is interesting fight and challenge, not the win itself

@ZOS_Wrobel mmr only system dosn't provide expected balance. It should be also choice for players to fight or not vs organized groups in battlegrounds. Quality of life..

Alas Wrobel doesn’t work here anymore

what u mean? he's fired? when? who's responcible for fighting system now?

GilliamTheRogue, I believe.

i've found this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453748/combat-team-news-and-updates/p1
So new head is Brian Wheeler and actually it's cool news. Hope he will improve the game in right direction.

P.s: GIlliam (he's real name is not Gilliam actually:)) joined balance team this summer to a raw position, not as a lead

StarOfElyon

Yes

This is grave news then... unless they will heed the wisdom of Gilliam... dark clouds loom over the horizon.

Inhuman003

Yes

This wouldn't be a problem if we had tournament PVP like brackets and teams Also solo and tournament PVE solo No mobs just the boss 1 on 1. Trust me guys this is what you guys were seeing but it's under Everyone's radar even mine at 1st.

MaxJrFTW

Yes

Just tried to do my 1st bg in a week or so. Zoned in, by the names i could tell that purple team was a 4 man pre-made, and the scoreboard made it even clearer. I left within 5 seconds, not even kidding.

I'm done with PvP until they fix battlegrounds. Battlegrounds have to be solo queue only, how hard is it for them to understand this?

StarOfElyon

Yes

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Just tried to do my 1st bg in a week or so. Zoned in, by the names i could tell that purple team was a 4 man pre-made, and the scoreboard made it even clearer. I left within 5 seconds, not even kidding.

I'm done with PvP until they fix battlegrounds. Battlegrounds have to be solo queue only, how hard is it for them to understand this?

What? You mean to tell me you missed out on all the fun?

https://youtu.be/nmN3wp4Y7ho


I think ZOS has achieved the balance that they desired. At least it seems that way.

clocksstoppe

Yes

The solution is to boycott them. If you see a premade slamming both teams, press the following buttons: P->X->E

You will be removed from the battleground, you will wait less than what it would have taken to finish it (good luck killing an ice spam warden in under 20min). If they don't have who to play with, they will go away.

MaxJrFTW

Yes

clocksstoppe wrote: »

The solution is to boycott them. If you see a premade slamming both teams, press the following buttons: P->X->E

You will be removed from the battleground, you will wait less than what it would have taken to finish it (good luck killing an ice spam warden in under 20min). If they don't have who to play with, they will go away.

Not like it's their fault though. Yes, those players are not the nicest people because they're choosing to group up knowing they won't have a proper opposition, but at the end of the day the developers are at fault for allowing it in the 1st place. Some people don't care about being "immoral" if it helps them win, hence why some cheat, some exploit broken sets, exploit broken abilities, exploit broken parts of a map. It's the developers job to prevent that.

clocksstoppe

Yes

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

The solution is to boycott them. If you see a premade slamming both teams, press the following buttons: P->X->E

You will be removed from the battleground, you will wait less than what it would have taken to finish it (good luck killing an ice spam warden in under 20min). If they don't have who to play with, they will go away.

Not like it's their fault though. Yes, those players are not the nicest people because they're choosing to group up knowing they won't have a proper opposition, but at the end of the day the developers are at fault for allowing it in the 1st place. Some people don't care about being "immoral" if it helps them win, hence why some cheat, some exploit broken sets, exploit broken abilities, exploit broken parts of a map. It's the developers job to prevent that.

If they don't mind being "immoral" then surely they won't mind ME being "immoral" and leaving once i see them

Get_Packed

Yes

I run in a lot of premades, were not out there trying to slaughter pugs but it happens. We are looking for good fights from other premades which we tend to get more than a bunch of poor randoms.

BuddyAces

StarOfElyon wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Just tried to do my 1st bg in a week or so. Zoned in, by the names i could tell that purple team was a 4 man pre-made, and the scoreboard made it even clearer. I left within 5 seconds, not even kidding.

I'm done with PvP until they fix battlegrounds. Battlegrounds have to be solo queue only, how hard is it for them to understand this?

What? You mean to tell me you missed out on all the fun?

https://youtu.be/nmN3wp4Y7ho


I think ZOS has achieved the balance that they desired. At least it seems that way.

lmfao

Love how they just completely ignored you for the most part

StarOfElyon

Yes

BuddyAces wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Just tried to do my 1st bg in a week or so. Zoned in, by the names i could tell that purple team was a 4 man pre-made, and the scoreboard made it even clearer. I left within 5 seconds, not even kidding.

I'm done with PvP until they fix battlegrounds. Battlegrounds have to be solo queue only, how hard is it for them to understand this?

What? You mean to tell me you missed out on all the fun?

https://youtu.be/nmN3wp4Y7ho


I think ZOS has achieved the balance that they desired. At least it seems that way.

lmfao

Love how they just completely ignored you for the most part

I know! It was ridiculous. I'm so used to getting focused but these guys were like machines. For me, I stayed on that ONE player because I wanted to see if I could even hurt him. I was just experimenting at that point.

bddennver

Yes

As someone who has played League of Legends and WoW, I don't understand why there is not a Solo Q and a Team Q.

Solo Q is a solo player or a duo, and Team Q is 3 mans or 4 mans. I just started getting into PvP after the midyear encore event and having fun with it, and I typically do well in my random solo BGs (I very rarely if ever go negative or get 3rd place as a team), but I hate running into a 3 or 4 man premade because it is obviously with how they run around, they are all ice wardens/templars.

Teams should not be placed in an environment where they are going against uncoordinated, and sometimes inexperienced groups. It is simply unhealthy. Imagine this type of system in LoL, where 5 man challenger team just sweeps in an destroys a group of solo players. Anyone who thinks the BG Q system is fine as is just gets their rocks off to seeing high numbers/dominating players.

StarOfElyon

Yes

To make matters worse, players are using the most lame carry sets. I am beating on people's heads and they are healing through it. I javelined and radiant oppressioned a guy and he automatically healed when he should have died. I can take the cheese anymore. Every three seconds there is a freaking fireball falling on my head. I cant even focus on my mechanics when fighting someone because of these superpowerful fireballs falling everywhere. At one point I was just running around trying to dodge these things, to hell with fighting. Something is seriously broken with this game. Damage is through the roof. Healing is nuts. I'm looking at people like "How is this possible???"

CC's like fears and roots are superstrong. I can be about to beam a NB after beating him down to his last inch of life and - bam - he fears, I can't break free, and then I'm dead.

I'm to the point now that I feel like the only way to play is to conform to the META and group up. It's not a game of skill, it's a game of cheese.

InvictusApollo

I had a premade todsy in BG. It doesnt happen often but I guess I played during downtime so there werent enough players.
How was it? The premade team was dominating. They stacked together, they healed each other, they snared their opponents.
One of my teammates left. Another started raging that we suck (he was the one with the lowest score and highest amounts of deaths. And me? I wen't into sneak mode to watch and learn. And I've come up with a build to counter icy magwardens.
I even managed to get some kills when one of my enemies has strayed from his group.
Have we won? Ofcourse not.
Did we have fun? No.
Did we have any chance? No.

What could be done? Synergy and communication of a well made premade cant be beaten by a group of unoptimized players.
Maybe if everyone in a group of randoms had several builds at the ready and we haf voice comms then we could cooperate. But we dont even have several builds because making them is a grind and cost that are viable only for more experienced players. Most people dont have even one proper build for pvp.

If we had voice comms and an ability to loan a build for a match then we wouldnt have such issues in battlerounds.

StarOfElyon

Yes

When it comes to gear, I switched from Julianos to Shacklebreaker last night because of the CCs. I'm still getting rooted to death. I can break free a few times but not again and again and again. The organized groups always make sure to root you or fear you and then dump on you. You need to have a build that's extremely tanky, has tons of stamina, and does butt loads of damage if you want to survive in these matches. But that's a broken build. You can't (shouldn't) have it all.

About 9 out of 10 of my matches are against premades. Sometimes two premades vs my group of expendables. Those premades look like they're built to run through vet dlc dungeons. If I'm not bringing a broken build to the match or my team isn't equal to the premades, it's going to be a complete waste of my time. That's why I say it's not worth it to que for BG solo anymore. That ship has sailed.

bardx86

It's really become a boring way to play. Everyone stacks on each other in a brawler style until someone finally dies which could take minutes. It's just not fun anymore.

Thogard

No

bardx86 wrote: »

It's really become a boring way to play. Everyone stacks on each other in a brawler style until someone finally dies which could take minutes. It's just not fun anymore.

If they’re bad yeah.

When the good premades fight its a very elaborate dance / marathon with practically no fighting until a team *** up their positioning.

Baconlad

Thoggy's right. Good premade groups that fight each other really wait until everyone has ults, everyone is in a proper position and preferably immov pots are up. They try to focus on getting resources up. It is more like a dance around each other until one team or the other is ready.
The bad premades who are used to roflstomping solo players are the ones who break.

TBH though look at everything else for content in the game though. What do you do when you want to get into the hardest trial content in the game? You dont random ly pick up a pug group and attempt VMOL hard mode. You find a guild of other players interested in getting SERIOUS about the content. You want to be the absolute best always winning at cyrodil raiding no cp or cp? You find a coordinated raid group of PvPers who are SERIOUS about that playstyle. Or if you are like me, enjoy dueling, enjoy small scale 2-4 man cyrodil CP campaign PvP, I found a guild of players who are serious about that kind of play. I've got two accually... one for duels and another for social/ small team PvP.

For BGs if you want to always win and be a beast on the leaderboards...you find a guild of players who are interested in getting SERIOUS about BGs.

If you are not serious about BGs you are not going to care to find a group of players to go in there with. I haven't always been ok with premades. But I came to the realization that I wasn't that serious about BGs. I jump in a few for the random bag and dip out. So...I deserve to get *** on by @thogard and his premade group or any other group of well coordinated players...cause, as much as I dont like getting *** on by premades, I'm not willing to put the work in to be a beast in them, or change my build to a AoE based or support build...cause I really only play BGs for the bag and to get out of vivec lag once in awhile...

GET SERIOUS

Baconlad

How about a compromise?

Two Ques. But let's make the premade Que double to triple rewards? More chances to get motif pages. Or a random motif from the world. Double to triple AP awards, chance at gold jewels instead of purple.

That way people will be more encouraged to group up and make BGs a serious gameplay option for those who want it. But retain the solo Q for the players like me who dont care? Maybe it will encourage me to get into it! I'd sure like a chance at gold jewels, double AP or random motif pages. We'll call premade Ques "Vet battlehrounds" haha

We'll call two or four players a premade. No option to Que as a three man or solo for vet BGs

Fr4ctalz

No

Battle grounds are a competitive sport. If your team gets shook, yeah it sucks but work on your strategy and with your teammates. The problem you all are experiencing comes from the none-competitive being paired with the competitive. Honestly, i just think there arnt enough people to being competitive to place them in their own genre.

MannKurt

Matching full premade vs randoms is nonsense. I can't even imagine how braindead should they be to lose vs randoms. Best solution is to separate ques but force groups to achieve something. Make group ques more rewarding (seasonal titles, mounts, outfits, costumes etc.) and bgs will become healthy.

MaxJrFTW

Yes

Thogard wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

It's really become a boring way to play. Everyone stacks on each other in a brawler style until someone finally dies which could take minutes. It's just not fun anymore.

If they’re bad yeah.

When the good premades fight its a very elaborate dance / marathon with practically no fighting until a team *** up their positioning.

You're also assuming everybody is high MMR, and everybody plays as late as you do. When you play late your team is pretty much stacked to the point that it hardly matters if you go against a premade or not. If you queue in the morning or at noon, you're going to get a couple of potatoes in your team. Good luck beating a premade 2v4.

Fr4ctalz wrote: »

Battle grounds are a competitive sport. If your team gets shook, yeah it sucks but work on your strategy and with your teammates. The problem you all are experiencing comes from the none-competitive being paired with the competitive. Honestly, i just think there arnt enough people to being competitive to place them in their own genre.

And there you go contradicting yourself.

A professional sports team doesn't play amateur teams. ESO is not designed, and it doesn't have the playerbase to house a competitive environment. So why let players who are competitive be in the same league as non competitive?

Bgs should be solo queue only. End of story.

Thogard

No

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

It's really become a boring way to play. Everyone stacks on each other in a brawler style until someone finally dies which could take minutes. It's just not fun anymore.

If they’re bad yeah.

When the good premades fight its a very elaborate dance / marathon with practically no fighting until a team *** up their positioning.

You're also assuming everybody is high MMR, and everybody plays as late as you do. When you play late your team is pretty much stacked to the point that it hardly matters if you go against a premade or not. If you queue in the morning or at noon, you're going to get a couple of potatoes in your team. Good luck beating a premade 2v4.

Fr4ctalz wrote: »

Battle grounds are a competitive sport. If your team gets shook, yeah it sucks but work on your strategy and with your teammates. The problem you all are experiencing comes from the none-competitive being paired with the competitive. Honestly, i just think there arnt enough people to being competitive to place them in their own genre.

And there you go contradicting yourself.

A professional sports team doesn't play amateur teams. ESO is not designed, and it doesn't have the playerbase to house a competitive environment. So why let players who are competitive be in the same league as non competitive?

Bgs should be solo queue only. End of story.

Yeah I’m referring to situations where there are multiple 4 man premades queueing up to fight each other.

Stibbons

Yes

Premade or even 2 man Group should allways end in premade battlegrounds own que. I play with full premade or semifull allways and i feel like no challenge. No point to punish premades by making them fight noobs.