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Premade groups are ruining battlegrounds...

  • jediodyn_ESO
    jediodyn_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    I'm going to restate my support for this option:
    Maulkin wrote: »
    This has been said countless of times. They don't even need 4 queues. Two will do fine:

    BGyWUdl.png

    2 Queues, a small and a large group queue, with solo players falling into both. Trio +1 random is strong enough to take on a Quartet (full premade). And solo players are fine mixing with duos.

    This is both easier to implement than MMR and it will cause smaller fragmentation of the relatively small player base than proper MMR would cause.

    Under this very simple system, you wouldn't even need separate queues. All folks joining would be auto sorted and all matches would be:

    singles/duos v. singles/duos

    or

    single+trio/quartet v. single+trio/quartet

    You could even have MMR operate within these confines to increase match quality further. I know ZOS tried to address the the PUG v. Premade issue with MMR inflation, but the issue remains, causing the vast majority of those matches to be totally noncompetitive. The system outlined above would greatly improve match quality.

    Not a good solution. One good premade duo wrecks a BG where each team is only 4 people, and a 3 person team who is too lazy to find a 4th shouldn’t be given a solo que player who would have joined a team if they wanted to fight other premade teams.

    2 que system. Solo and group. Different leaderboards and rewards for each.
  • ChunkyCat
    ChunkyCat
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    BP_Sparty wrote: »
    Another day of solo queing on my Magdk, another day of fighting the same 3 man premade 3 games in a row. Thanks zos for such a balanced and well thought out mmr system where I never see 90% of the bg playerbase and only fighting the same people every single game. Getting real tired of it

    +1
  • NupidStoob
    NupidStoob
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    I figured I get warhorn and guard for one of my healers today and what do I run into? Two high level players I encounter all the time on my main, one on his actual main and the other on a new char grouped with two other new chars just completely wrecking everyone. Much fun.
  • hesobad
    hesobad
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    Yes
    Absolutely they are without a shadow of a doubt. Its very simple really, a 6 year old with a learning disability can figure it out. Have 2 separate ques, 1 for groups which you can not que for unless you're in a group of 2, 3 or 4 and a separate que system for SOLO players. I don't want to go into a bg alone and go against a pre made of 4 people. This game man.... *** like this is why I never go to E3 or ESO conferences, it makes me so angry to see them release new crap when people are yelling on the forums about bgs. FIX YOUR ***!
    Ad Victoriam!
  • Zeromaz
    Zeromaz
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    I’m most frustrated with having to wait in queue for 10 minutes only to play the same 20 people over and over again.... am i to believe there are only 20 people queuing for BGs or ZOS’ system is repedatively boring me out of playing BGs?
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    Zeromaz wrote: »
    I’m most frustrated with having to wait in queue for 10 minutes only to play the same 20 people over and over again.... am i to believe there are only 20 people queuing for BGs or ZOS’ system is repedatively boring me out of playing BGs?

    You're likely at such a high MMR bracket that not only are those 20 players all you can be matched against, but the queue also has to extend viable brackets to reach them. One such reason why I think a ranked match making system is a stupid idea in a game where PVP is basically dead: just isn't enough players to work properly.
    Edited by jcm2606 on December 4, 2018 1:38PM
    @jcm2606 | PC NA | CP 940+ | Stormproof | Boethia's Scythe
  • NoMoreChillies
    NoMoreChillies
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    having grouped teams vs solo teams is a big no-no in every pvp game ever made.

    Seeing it here is bewildering. Who makes the decisions at ZOS? do they even play games?
    Insulting people on the internet is cowardly.
  • Ash_In_My_Sujamma
    Ash_In_My_Sujamma
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    Make ranked and solo queue seperate
  • Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino
    Yes
    having grouped teams vs solo teams is a big no-no in every pvp game ever made.

    Seeing it here is bewildering. Who makes the decisions at ZOS? do they even play games?

    Short answer: No.

    Long answer: No, probably not.
    PC NA :: @Filthy_Rizz
  • Qwazz
    Qwazz
    ✭✭✭
    No
    Adding a no MMR solo queue option would make people want to play. Chaos instead of coordination.
    Cap on multiple servers
    AD Sorcerer (NA) PvP 31
    AD Templar (NA) PvP 38
    AD Warden (NA) PvP 29
    AD Nightblade (NA) PvP 27
    AD Dragonknight (NA) PvP 16
    AD Sorcerer (EU) PvP 42
    AD Templar (EU) PvP 36
    EP Sorcerer (EU) PvP 16
    EP Nightblade (EU) PvP 29
  • pdebie64b16_ESO
    pdebie64b16_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    having grouped teams vs solo teams is a big no-no in every pvp game ever made.

    Seeing it here is bewildering. Who makes the decisions at ZOS? do they even play games?

    I guess not, and they dont care, they have other priorities (crown store)
  • ChunkyCat
    ChunkyCat
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    I played under 50 BGs all last week. It was fun playing against people I didn’t know.

    Some players were straight squishy potatos, but there was also a healthy bunch who actually knew what they were doing.

    PvEd to level 20ish to get some semi decent skills unlocked, then hopped in some BGs. Fun times.

    Definitely beats playing against the same 7 people every night.

    Only encountered one premade all week. Mofos were even using guard. Talk about noob stomping.
  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
    ✭✭✭
    No
    Add ranked matches and make MMR values account bound.
    [EU PC] @fake_remedy
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  • MaxJrFTW
    MaxJrFTW
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    Add ranked matches and make MMR values account bound.

    Your answer and post contradict themselves.
  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
    ✭✭✭
    No
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Add ranked matches and make MMR values account bound.

    Your answer and post contradict themselves.

    No, premade groups are not ruining Battlegrounds. Premades are ruining the pug experience of Battlegrounds (According to this poll). Now please ZOS add ranked matches and make MMR values account bound.
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  • NupidStoob
    NupidStoob
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Add ranked matches and make MMR values account bound.

    Your answer and post contradict themselves.

    No, premade groups are not ruining Battlegrounds. Premades are ruining the pug experience of Battlegrounds (According to this poll). Now please ZOS add ranked matches and make MMR values account bound.

    So many people I know that tried BGs stopped rather quickly again because they were too annoyed of running into teams. I only play a few matches a week myself nowadays from playing many matches daily.

    Groups wouldn't even find enough matches and would have insanely long queues if soloplayers didn't exist. Groups pushing them away from playing certainly doesn't help with this. So yes, premade groups do ruin battlegrounds at the moment.
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Premades are tough but can be beaten by a quality PUG. Some of the most fun I have is fighting premades with other good random players:

    IMG-c128412c-ff14-4f69-a93f-cd6029e308c7.png

    Purple is a 4 man.
  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
    ✭✭✭
    No
    NupidStoob wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Add ranked matches and make MMR values account bound.

    Your answer and post contradict themselves.

    No, premade groups are not ruining Battlegrounds. Premades are ruining the pug experience of Battlegrounds (According to this poll). Now please ZOS add ranked matches and make MMR values account bound.

    So many people I know that tried BGs stopped rather quickly again because they were too annoyed of running into teams. I only play a few matches a week myself nowadays from playing many matches daily.

    Groups wouldn't even find enough matches and would have insanely long queues if soloplayers didn't exist. Groups pushing them away from playing certainly doesn't help with this. So yes, premade groups do ruin battlegrounds at the moment.

    You were looking for a casual pug experience and was faced with tryhard premades. Yep I understand. Each to their own interpreted experiences. For me so many premades and good solo players I know tried the queue up for Battlegrounds post Summerset stopped playing the game as they were wrecked by queue wait times. Full premade Battlegrounds do happen on a daily basis for me. I should add that there are many players on EU to this day that will only solo/duo until they meet a full group. Its not always one or the other.

    Edit: Summerset, not Morrowind
    Edited by Fake Remedy on December 11, 2018 3:56AM
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  • NupidStoob
    NupidStoob
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    NupidStoob wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Add ranked matches and make MMR values account bound.

    Your answer and post contradict themselves.

    No, premade groups are not ruining Battlegrounds. Premades are ruining the pug experience of Battlegrounds (According to this poll). Now please ZOS add ranked matches and make MMR values account bound.

    So many people I know that tried BGs stopped rather quickly again because they were too annoyed of running into teams. I only play a few matches a week myself nowadays from playing many matches daily.

    Groups wouldn't even find enough matches and would have insanely long queues if soloplayers didn't exist. Groups pushing them away from playing certainly doesn't help with this. So yes, premade groups do ruin battlegrounds at the moment.

    You were looking for a casual pug experience and was faced with tryhard premades. Yep I understand. Each to their own interpreted experiences. For me so many premades and good solo players I know tried the queue up for Battlegrounds post Morrowind stopped playing the game as they were wrecked by queue wait times. Full premade Battlegrounds do happen on a daily basis for me. I should add that there are many players on EU to this day that will only solo/duo until they meet a full group. Its not always one or the other.

    Playing solo doesn't mean I want casual, but it also doesn't mean I want to face organized groups. I will play solo until I run into a group as well and will usually give those matches a try since not all groups are necessarily good or I might end up with competent teammates that know how to stick together and have some offhealing slotted. The problem is once I run into a well organized group with a team that can't win all I can do is abandon or suicide to end the match quicker and then simply not queue up for another couple hours.

    I had no problem with grouping up and doing full on tryhard stuff if there was an actual competition with proper ranking and prices, but there is not and I don't see the appeal in just trashing less prepared players than me in even numbers every few matches.
  • jediodyn_ESO
    jediodyn_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    So recently I’ve been queuing up with my low MMR friend because she’s getting into battlegrounds and it’s totally a joke. Most of the matches we get put up against inexperienced players (like her) and together she and I destroy the fun of the match for everyone else. Occasionally we get thrown in against another premade of server vets and we get destroyed.

    It should be obvious that it’s much easier to have better matches with a purely solo queue, BUT this also means that competition as a group NEEDS to be worth the extra wait time, harder matches, and effort that it takes to run as a good group.

    The reward for grouping should not be ruining everyone else’s fun.

    TWO QUEUES PLEASE - PUG AND GROUP. SEPARATE LEADERBOARDS AND REWARDS FOR EACH!
  • jediodyn_ESO
    jediodyn_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    Premades are tough but can be beaten by a quality PUG. Some of the most fun I have is fighting premades with other good random players:

    IMG-c128412c-ff14-4f69-a93f-cd6029e308c7.png

    Purple is a 4 man.

    16/4 with one million damage... there is something wrong with this evidence. Yes, that one guy wrecked the enemy “premade” which means that they were not the teams we are talking about ruining battlegrounds. That doesn’t happen against a decent team because the cc/focus and shut the player down. Yes you can occasionally get a great pug and break even a good team, but that happens so very infrequently compared to the many times you’re tossed in with a couple of struggling players and wrecked.

    Players who, btw, are likely to just quit playing battlegrounds because of that kind of bad experience.

    Edited by jediodyn_ESO on December 11, 2018 5:15PM
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Premades are tough but can be beaten by a quality PUG. Some of the most fun I have is fighting premades with other good random players:

    IMG-c128412c-ff14-4f69-a93f-cd6029e308c7.png

    Purple is a 4 man.

    16/4 with one million damage... there is something wrong with this evidence. Yes, that one guy wrecked the enemy “premade” which means that they were not the teams we are talking about ruining battlegrounds. That doesn’t happen against a decent team because the cc/focus and shut the player down. Yes you can occasionally get a great pug and break even a good team, but that happens so very infrequently compared to the many times you’re tossed in with a couple of struggling players and wrecked.

    Players who, btw, are likely to just quit playing battlegrounds because of that kind of bad experience.

    Your absolutely right. The premades you refer to I generally only get a handful of kills, a few deaths, and more damage because they ball up, heal, purge, guard, etc.

    But there is no easy solution for the devs to discern between talented strategic premades and premades that just play together.

    A ranked/social queue could be a potential solution but also open for abuse.

    Additionally I've been in PUGs that mesh really well and everyone seems to know each other's movements. You can't really combat that either.

    Overall though, premades are not ruining BGs. Playing the same premades who dominate match after match because the system can't find you anyone else to fight is a bigger problem.

    One match every so often against these types of premades is discouraging but 3 or 4 in a row is enough to just promote finding another hobby.
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    Queued up my first BG of the day, and waited ~15 minutes to end up 3v3v4, with the only full team being a premade group running some hardcore root/snare spam builds (Encase + Frost Staves). One of my teammates had apparently faced them a few other times, said he was sick of it, and spent most of the game chilling in spawn.

    But at least we managed to land a couple of kills on the third team, and came in second so that I could get the daily done. Logged off after that because, what's the point? If I keep running Battlegrounds on the character I want to play, I'm just going to get that group over and over, probably not have a full team, not have the builds/coordination needed to have a realistic chance even if I do manage to get 4 from the start, and I get the pleasure of waiting 15 minutes in the queue between games. Sounds great, sign me up! :|
  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
    ✭✭✭
    No
    So are you solo Battleground players meeting the same premade duo/trio/full groups? Are you also meeting the same solo players?
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  • NupidStoob
    NupidStoob
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    So are you solo Battleground players meeting the same premade duo/trio/full groups? Are you also meeting the same solo players?

    Yes. Usually a bunch of people per BG I recognize unless I queue like in the middle of the night or early morning.
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So are you solo Battleground players meeting the same premade duo/trio/full groups? Are you also meeting the same solo players?

    Yes generally if I play certain players/teams, the game will pit me against them for the next several matches.

    If I switch to an alt, it's totally different players.
  • Dyride
    Dyride
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    BGs should be restricting to solo and duo groups.

    Having max 2 person groups in the queue would allow a 4v4v4 to be quickly formed and wouldn't allow 3 person groups to linger and prevent overly maximized 4 person groups to dominate.
    V Є H Є M Є И C Є
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    Ḍ̼̭͔yride -- Sorceress of the Reach

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  • hesobad
    hesobad
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    Yes

    I will leave if I run into a pre made, I play solo and if I see some bs like that I'm just going to leave and swap toons. ZOS gives ZERO *** about the bg community. Apparently they do read the forums once a year or something, but somehow either looks over or refuses to address this ongoing issue. ITS SIMPLE. GROUP QUE AND SOLO QUE! ITS NOT HARD ZOS
    Ad Victoriam!
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