Race buffs

JobooAGS

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Breton buff. Choose one:

Magicka Mastery (passive)

• "Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 1/3/5%."
• "Your magicka attacks restore [x] Magicka. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds."
• "Your magicka attacks have a 10% chance to restore 1/2/3% of your Max Magicka."
• "Increases your Magic Damage by 1/2/3%. (This is "Magic Damage", a non-elemental damage)

Either the 1st or the 2nd

JobooAGS

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.

The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.

Oversimplifying.

Regen is always active. Cost reduction is not.

Regen amps with other bonuses. Cost reduction has diminishing returns.

2000 Regen is not uncommon for healers and PvP

Actually regen is not always active, block stops it posions reduce it. The only time you're not casting is while you're not in combat. Then you have non-combat regen. Go play a healer for 10 Seconds of a boss burn phase. Then tell me 100 cost of of Springs isn't better than casting an extra one 2 Seconds later.
PvP where actually having good resistances is even more important??

Mag regen isnt affected by poisons, and mag regen isnt stopped by blocking, with the exception of I think an ice staff

Maura_Neysa

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.

The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.

Oversimplifying.

Regen is always active. Cost reduction is not.

Regen amps with other bonuses. Cost reduction has diminishing returns.

2000 Regen is not uncommon for healers and PvP

Actually regen is not always active, block stops it posions reduce it. The only time you're not casting is while you're not in combat. Then you have non-combat regen. Go play a healer for 10 Seconds of a boss burn phase. Then tell me 100 cost of of Springs isn't better than casting an extra one 2 Seconds later.
PvP where actually having good resistances is even more important??

Mag regen isnt affected by poisons, and mag regen isnt stopped by blocking, with the exception of I think an ice staff

True enough, magic damage posion increase the cost, rather than reduce regen. Oh but wait that just makes cost reduction have even greater returns.
Yes Frost Staff, and these days there's no difference between back bar Frost on magic us back bar 1H&S on stamina. Both increase your tankyness significantly.

InFernalEntity

ArchMikem wrote: »

Khajiit need that +10% Max Stamina that everyone freaked out over.

Wouldn't go as high as 10. Maybe 6%. To put them on par with Bosmer, Orc and Dunmer.

The reason people freaked out about the 10% was because of the 8% crit chance. But seeing as proc sets don't crit any more, most people use impen in Cyrodiil and thief and shadow both got nerfed... it's a lot less useful to have that 8% crit chance than it is to have higher stamina regen and pools.

Blackbird_V

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Breton buff. Choose one:

Magicka Mastery (passive)

• "Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 1/3/5%."
• "Your magicka attacks restore [x] Magicka. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds."
• "Your magicka attacks have a 10% chance to restore 1/2/3% of your Max Magicka."
• "Increases your Magic Damage by 1/2/3%. (This is "Magic Damage", a non-elemental damage)

Last one, and should be 2/5/7& sorta like Dunmer. Then they're more viable for Magblades and Magplars.

Sinolai

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.

The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.

I think healers usually have 2K+ regen. Also, Breton loses roughly 1,5k damage/sec to altmers due to lack of damage passives. They are not bad but for competitive purposes they lose to Altmer and Dunmer in damage and to Argonians in healing. The cost reduction passive do need. buff in my opinion.

Maura_Neysa

Sinolai wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.

The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.

I think healers usually have 2K+ regen. Also, Breton loses roughly 1,5k damage/sec to altmers due to lack of damage passives. They are not bad but for competitive purposes they lose to Altmer and Dunmer in damage and to Argonians in healing. The cost reduction passive do need. buff in my opinion.

Argionan healsers are much more rare then Breton or Altmer. In PVE almost every Argonan you see is a tank. That cost reduction is exactly the reason so many healers are Breton

SydneyGrey

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

........People only play Bretons because they have cute female toons (same with wood elf lol.) ......

Yep.

Skander

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Sinolai wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.

The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.

I think healers usually have 2K+ regen. Also, Breton loses roughly 1,5k damage/sec to altmers due to lack of damage passives. They are not bad but for competitive purposes they lose to Altmer and Dunmer in damage and to Argonians in healing. The cost reduction passive do need. buff in my opinion.

Argionan healsers are much more rare then Breton or Altmer. In PVE almost every Argonan you see is a tank. That cost reduction is exactly the reason so many healers are Breton

Untrue:
becouse the battle roar passive argonians have (let's be honest, it's battle roar) gives them a lot of recovery.
+3% mag
+5% healing.
that's much more than:
10% mag
3% cost reduction
of bretons

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Skander wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

I think a lore-friendly way to buff Bretons would be ~5% shield strength tacked on to the third passive. Since in lore Bretons are magically defensive this seems to fit well and gives a small buff without being OP. Magic damage would be cool too though. Regarding Altmer regen vs Breton cost reduc, there is actually more time in combat than you would think where you are not casting. Lots of mechanics involve running, dodging, etc where you get no bonus from cost reduc and you are also spending no magicka while heavy attacking. Which one is better is definitely situational. The disparity between the races comes primarily from the 4% elemental damage versus the spell resist (which isn’t even active while shields are up, and pretty much all mag builds use shields).

Bretons have spell resist, which is lore friendly. They just need a slight buff on the last passive, being the worst of all.

it is really not. the worst you can say is the it is right in line with other resource passives, it is not too far behind the pot one from argonians(lizards op) and it is better then the 9% regen from high elves. see my post higher up. or just click this- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4895360/#Comment_4895360.

9% rgen is way better. On a pvp stand of view. Is FAR better. And Altmers also have an insane buff on elemental dmg.

did you even read my post that i linked? it is not "way better" cost reduction gets better in pvp with cost increase potions and the reduction is not impacted by the siphon passive. like i said, the worst you can say is that they are in line with each other.

i agree that the 4% buff to elemetal damage is more desired then the 6% spell resists that bretons have, though i would never say "insane" about a mere 4%, that is another topic altogether then the resource passives.

3999 spell resisnt' isn't 6% less dmg.

And no, since recovery gets buffed by potions, and continuus attack. 9% is way better then a miserable 3% reduction

percent amps, like the 20% from pots and the 9% from being a high elf do not stack like that. they are additive, not multiplicative. as i show in my post.

Sinolai wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.

The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.

I think healers usually have 2K+ regen. Also, Breton loses roughly 1,5k damage/sec to altmers due to lack of damage passives. They are not bad but for competitive purposes they lose to Altmer and Dunmer in damage and to Argonians in healing. The cost reduction passive do need. buff in my opinion.

omg, does noone read the whole thread before posting? the way regen works means that you need to have BASE regen of 2k+ to have better resource management then 3% cost reduction. do you understand BASE? it is the mag recovery you have BEFORE PERCENT AMPS, like the one you think is better then 3% cost reduction. i am not going to go into it all again, i will just quote myself from a later post you clearly did not read.

my warden healer is a nord, just like your templar one, he runs 2k regen but that is after all percent amps. base would be 514(base)+124(set)+124(set)+319(food)+300(atro with 4 6.5% divines)= 1381 then all other percent amps are calculated off that and then added to it. like Flourish, 12% adds 166, Recovery from light armor, 24% cause i have on 6 light adds 331, 14% from cp adds 193, bringing the total to 2071. 9% more would only be 124 more regen, still less than the 180 that 3% would save on average, on the low end of course, i would bet that the average magic skill cost is actually closer to 3.5k.

so what happens is that the 1381 is the BASE regen and then all the other percent amps are ADDED up.
like this



so the it would look like this, (514+124+124+319+300)* (36%+14%)= 690.5 and that would be ADDED to 1381, which then would be 2071 , with the 9% from a high elf, it would look like this, (514+124+124+319+300)* (45%+14%) = 814.79 , which then would be 2195, which is just a 6% increase in regen from 2071. come on people this is not hard math. it only gets worse the more percent regen you add.

with pots it would be (514+124+124+319+300)* (65%+14%) = 1091 and added to 1381 is 2472, only a 12% increase in regen. do you see what i mean yet?

Qbiken

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

I think a lore-friendly way to buff Bretons would be ~5% shield strength tacked on to the third passive. Since in lore Bretons are magically defensive this seems to fit well and gives a small buff without being OP. Magic damage would be cool too though. Regarding Altmer regen vs Breton cost reduc, there is actually more time in combat than you would think where you are not casting. Lots of mechanics involve running, dodging, etc where you get no bonus from cost reduc and you are also spending no magicka while heavy attacking. Which one is better is definitely situational. The disparity between the races comes primarily from the 4% elemental damage versus the spell resist (which isn’t even active while shields are up, and pretty much all mag builds use shields).

Bretons have spell resist, which is lore friendly. They just need a slight buff on the last passive, being the worst of all.

it is really not. the worst you can say is the it is right in line with other resource passives, it is not too far behind the pot one from argonians(lizards op) and it is better then the 9% regen from high elves. see my post higher up. or just click this- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4895360/#Comment_4895360.

9% rgen is way better. On a pvp stand of view. Is FAR better. And Altmers also have an insane buff on elemental dmg.

did you even read my post that i linked? it is not "way better" cost reduction gets better in pvp with cost increase potions and the reduction is not impacted by the siphon passive. like i said, the worst you can say is that they are in line with each other.

i agree that the 4% buff to elemetal damage is more desired then the 6% spell resists that bretons have, though i would never say "insane" about a mere 4%, that is another topic altogether then the resource passives.

3999 spell resisnt' isn't 6% less dmg.

And no, since recovery gets buffed by potions, and continuus attack. 9% is way better then a miserable 3% reduction

percent amps, like the 20% from pots and the 9% from being a high elf do not stack like that. they are additive, not multiplicative. as i show in my post.

Sinolai wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.

The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.

I think healers usually have 2K+ regen. Also, Breton loses roughly 1,5k damage/sec to altmers due to lack of damage passives. They are not bad but for competitive purposes they lose to Altmer and Dunmer in damage and to Argonians in healing. The cost reduction passive do need. buff in my opinion.

omg, does noone read the whole thread before posting? the way regen works means that you need to have BASE regen of 2k+ to have better resource management then 3% cost reduction. do you understand BASE? it is the mag recovery you have BEFORE PERCENT AMPS, like the one you think is better then 3% cost reduction. i am not going to go into it all again, i will just quote myself from a later post you clearly did not read.

my warden healer is a nord, just like your templar one, he runs 2k regen but that is after all percent amps. base would be 514(base)+124(set)+124(set)+319(food)+300(atro with 4 6.5% divines)= 1381 then all other percent amps are calculated off that and then added to it. like Flourish, 12% adds 166, Recovery from light armor, 24% cause i have on 6 light adds 331, 14% from cp adds 193, bringing the total to 2071. 9% more would only be 124 more regen, still less than the 180 that 3% would save on average, on the low end of course, i would bet that the average magic skill cost is actually closer to 3.5k.

so what happens is that the 1381 is the BASE regen and then all the other percent amps are ADDED up.
like this



so the it would look like this, (514+124+124+319+300)* (36%+14%)= 690.5 and that would be ADDED to 1381, which then would be 2071 , with the 9% from a high elf, it would look like this, (514+124+124+319+300)* (45%+14%) = 814.79 , which then would be 2195, which is just a 6% increase in regen from 2071. come on people this is not hard math. it only gets worse the more percent regen you add.

Very insightful, didn´t know this

Lynx7386

I say again: make khajiit carnage buff spell crit like it used to.

dazee

People should play whatever race they want for whatever build they want. Racial bonuses should be small, and just barely noticable, say a 5% difference in performance.

Maura_Neysa

dazee wrote: »

People should play whatever race they want for whatever build they want. Racial bonuses should be small, and just barely noticable, say a 5% difference in performance.

Actually they already are. I play an Altmer tank, Bosmer tank, Bosmer Healer, Orc DPS (in PvE). Woeler's tank is a Khaitii. The racial passive are not that big because of calculation order. (see everything above about why Breton 3% reduction is just as good as Altmer 9% recovery)
In the end the difference between BiS race and worst 1000 DPS or so. You just have to adapt properly, Altmer tank has no need for more magic recovery. Ore DPS has to get a little extra recovery to make up for Redguard passive. Bosmer magic can dodge roll machanics so often. Sheepoeple just aren't willing to do the word to adapt all the information gathered up by the Youtubers and forum champions and adapt it to the build they want to run. I've done it, took me several months to realize the Warden Nature's Gift didn't work while healing my self, and just this week I learned something about the exact chances on 3 of my skills that sound like they should be the same, but in fact all 3 have different chances.

dazee

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

People should play whatever race they want for whatever build they want. Racial bonuses should be small, and just barely noticable, say a 5% difference in performance.

Actually they already are. I play an Altmer tank, Bosmer tank, Bosmer Healer, Orc DPS (in PvE). Woeler's tank is a Khaitii. The racial passive are not that big because of calculation order. (see everything above about why Breton 3% reduction is just as good as Altmer 9% recovery)
In the end the difference between BiS race and worst 1000 DPS or so. You just have to adapt properly, Altmer tank has no need for more magic recovery. Ore DPS has to get a little extra recovery to make up for Redguard passive. Bosmer magic can dodge roll machanics so often. Sheepoeple just aren't willing to do the word to adapt all the information gathered up by the Youtubers and forum champions and adapt it to the build they want to run. I've done it, took me several months to realize the Warden Nature's Gift didn't work while healing my self, and just this week I learned something about the exact chances on 3 of my skills that sound like they should be the same, but in fact all 3 have different chances.

That's good news then. I guess the only people who will care what race your character is are the ones most people wouldn't like running with anyway then.

LadyNalcarya

Just let us choose passives.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Buff Orc hands! They look like tiny little mittens on a bear.

Skander

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Just let us choose passives.

Not lore friendly

JobooAGS

Skander wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Just let us choose passives.

Not lore friendly

Every elder scrolls has let you choose starting passives one way or another independent of race except for skyrim

Skander

JobooAGS wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Just let us choose passives.

Not lore friendly

Every elder scrolls has let you choose starting passives one way or another independent of race except for skyrim

Is still not lore friendly.

Lynx7386

Skander wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Just let us choose passives.

Not lore friendly

Every elder scrolls has let you choose starting passives one way or another independent of race except for skyrim

Is still not lore friendly.

Why not?

Are all basketball players 7 foot tall black guys?

Are all Asians math prodigies?

Do all Russians live on vodka?

Do all British people like tea and crumpets?


That's what I'm seeing when looking at the very clearly biased passives given to each race. A few examples:

-nords only get health and toughness bonuses, because all nords are big dumb brute warriors right? Well what about shalidor? Arguably one of the most prominent mages in elder scrolls history, and he's a nord.

-khajiit only get sneaky thief bonuses, because all khajiit are sulking cutpurses right? What about the numerous khajiit mages you see in the game as npcs, or j'zargo from skyrim, or the fact that several subspecies of khajiit are confirmed in lore to be very powerful and capable spellcaster.
How about the warrior khajiit, the Cathay-raht who stand as tall as an altmer and are stronger and sturdier than nords?

So yes, it is perfectly established in the lore that not all members of a species have the same affinities.

JobooAGS

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Just let us choose passives.

Not lore friendly

Every elder scrolls has let you choose starting passives one way or another independent of race except for skyrim

Is still not lore friendly.

Why not?

Are all basketball players 7 foot tall black guys?

Are all Asians math prodigies?

Do all Russians live on vodka?

Do all British people like tea and crumpets?


That's what I'm seeing when looking at the very clearly biased passives given to each race. A few examples:

-nords only get health and toughness bonuses, because all nords are big dumb brute warriors right? Well what about shalidor? Arguably one of the most prominent mages in elder scrolls history, and he's a nord.

-khajiit only get sneaky thief bonuses, because all khajiit are sulking cutpurses right? What about the numerous khajiit mages you see in the game as npcs, or j'zargo from skyrim, or the fact that several subspecies of khajiit are confirmed in lore to be very powerful and capable spellcaster.
How about the warrior khajiit, the Cathay-raht who stand as tall as an altmer and are stronger and sturdier than nords?

So yes, it is perfectly established in the lore that not all members of a species have the same affinities.

Hear hear, also in every elder scrolls game, at end game, race is irrelavant, your build is far more important, even for min maxing

FlyLionel

I agree with Imperial and Breton, they need to rework blood diamond is all. And Breton needs the resistance they have buffed big time. Many races have amazing extra bonuses like Orc and Argonian, just get them near it, not above or even on par.

Iccotak

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Nords also need some room for magicka builds

why?

Because every race should be viable for magicka builds.

Maura_Neysa

dazee wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

People should play whatever race they want for whatever build they want. Racial bonuses should be small, and just barely noticable, say a 5% difference in performance.

Actually they already are. I play an Altmer tank, Bosmer tank, Bosmer Healer, Orc DPS (in PvE). Woeler's tank is a Khaitii. The racial passive are not that big because of calculation order. (see everything above about why Breton 3% reduction is just as good as Altmer 9% recovery)
In the end the difference between BiS race and worst 1000 DPS or so. You just have to adapt properly, Altmer tank has no need for more magic recovery. Ore DPS has to get a little extra recovery to make up for Redguard passive. Bosmer magic can dodge roll machanics so often. Sheepoeple just aren't willing to do the word to adapt all the information gathered up by the Youtubers and forum champions and adapt it to the build they want to run. I've done it, took me several months to realize the Warden Nature's Gift didn't work while healing my self, and just this week I learned something about the exact chances on 3 of my skills that sound like they should be the same, but in fact all 3 have different chances.

That's good news then. I guess the only people who will care what race your character is are the ones most people wouldn't like running with anyway then.

The people who run their own race can be some of the best people to run with. Its a sign that they understand the game mechanics and have adapted what works from BiS and what works for their own play style. Its a sign they are so comfortable and confident in the build that they aren't struggling for every once of "whatever"to keep up.
Of course there are also the people who just doit know any better and the ones who are trying to break 50k solo parse.
What I do know is the my skin run team is a Warden Altmer tank, Sorc Breton healer, Mag blade Argonian DD and Stamsorc Rearguard DD. Thats group is the that has a chance of Hard mode, no death, speed run in one go, of all the people l've done skin runs with.

dazee

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

The people who run their own race can be some of the best people to run with.

If they're running the BIS race becuase they feel like it and are happy with that sure. What I meant was if somebody cares what race YOUR character is, not what race theirs is. People being kicked or not accepted into groups because the race they like is the "Wrong" race for the class they like is toxic and inexcusable.

Maura_Neysa

dazee wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

The people who run their own race can be some of the best people to run with.

If they're running the BIS race becuase they feel like it and are happy with that sure. What I meant was if somebody cares what race YOUR character is, not what race theirs is. People being kicked or not accepted into groups because the race they like is the "Wrong" race for the class they like is toxic and inexcusable.

You mean Trolls? yeah. Sadly Trolls have found out that while bridges are good to hide under, the internet is another place they can hide behind.

sneakymitchell

Iccotak wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Nords also need some room for magicka builds

why?

Because every race should be viable for magicka builds.

Nords are fine with magic builds. I’m slowly making a nord magic DK. I’m just getting the final touches for it for the sets so it will be viable. And that 6% damage reduction is still great when you need survivability for magic builds even the health.

Tonturri

I would rather they just rip the passives away from race and let you pick. It is very vexing to have such strong passives attached to something that is purely aesthetic.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Tonturri wrote: »

I would rather they just rip the passives away from race and let you pick. It is very vexing to have such strong passives attached to something that is purely aesthetic.

Then it’s not purely aesthetic is it? Keep the racial passives, they make it interesting otherwise its just a glorified costume